Caller: “My Boyfriend Won’t Propose”

I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years, and living together for nine, he has not proposed yet. I'm feeling really anxious and extremely rejected about it, especially since last January, he actually told me he bought the ring. What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, right in the middle of America, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, your marriage, your kids, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. I'd love to have you on this show. If you want to be a part of it, click the link in the show notes and fill out the form, and it will send it over to Kelly, and she'll get you on the show. Let's roll out to Boston and talk to Alice. Hey, Alice, what's up? Hey, how are you? I'm doing great. How about you? Good, thanks. Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. What's going on? So I am basically a little backstory. I've been with my boyfriend for 10 years. Dang. 10 years. All right. So 10 years together. 60 years old. Yep. And living together for nine. He has not proposed yet. Of course not. Why would he? I know. Why would he? He's got the greatest situation ever. You're right. We are very much in love. We have a great life together. We have our dogs and a great place to live. And it has come up. Marriage has come up probably yearly. But I'm feeling really anxious and extremely rejected about it, especially since last January. He actually told me he bought the ring and it was in his nightstand. Was that true? Yes. I didn't actually look at it, but I saw the bag. Okay. Yeah. So what does marriage mean to you? You said you had a great life. You're getting the life that you've wanted. You're getting the life that you've wanted to co-create together. You're madly in love, you said. You've got your dogs. Like, what does marriage mean to you? What is it? What are you missing? It definitely means 100% commitment. Okay. What percentage do you think you're at right now? For commitment? Mm-hmm. I would say it's, it feels like 75% because of that. Mm-hmm. Because we've been talking about it for so long, and I've been talking about it for so long, and I've been talking about it for so long, and I've been talking about it for so long. Mm-hmm. It's almost like living in a lie. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, I think beneath the marriage, and let me put my biases out on the table. I've done a lot of digging into the literature about this. The way you've just described this is actually bared out in the literature, that long-term cohabitating relationships can be fine. I'll even say they can be great. But there is something the nerds call. The marriage advantage. And it comes, I think, at the end of the day, from an anchor point. Yeah. That married couples out. And I hate to use this language. It just feels gross. But they outperform cohabitating couples in everything from finance to relationship quality to sex to health outcomes because of that anchor point. That other 25%, as you describe it. I've never heard it put that way, but that was beautifully said. But I want to get beneath. I like that. I want to get beneath the marriage question here. Okay. What I want you to metabolize or wrestle with is for 10 years, you've told this person that you're building a life with, this thing really matters to me. And he has said, either through words or, more importantly, through his actions, I don't care what you think. That's heavy. Yeah. Because it's easy to focus on marriage, marriage, marriage. It becomes a place to put extra energy when the real problem is in the foundation of this thing y'all are building together, which is, I really want this. And the person you're building a life with says, A, I don't want that. And B, I don't care that you want that. Oh, I didn't think of it that way. But you're right. So back out of the marriage question, and sometimes I'm right on this question, and sometimes I'm completely wrong. So I've got no stake in it. I just want to try to get to some deeper truth here. Where else do you have things in your relationship that really matter to you that he says, Nah, I don't care? Oh, there's a few things. We live in an apartment. In his daughter's house. And there are times when I feel like moving would be a good idea. And that's not really an option. Hold on, hold on. It is very, very much an option. It's something he just says no to. I don't care what you think. You're right. I don't care that you want to be a grown up and have our own place and our own nest and our own home. I don't care. This is what we're doing. Or this is what I'm doing. Right? Everything's an option. This is like the America in the 21st century. Not the America, but an America. One of several. You're right. What else? So when. He is. He's an electrician. He has his own business. Okay. So I work on a very part-time basis working on the books. And sometimes he's not, he doesn't follow through on paperwork type things, phone calls, certain things he needs to do. And it does affect me because I'm waiting to do that role. And I'm waiting for him to do that role. And so that, I guess I would call it chronic procrastination. So there's a lot of that. So chronic procrastination can be a fancy way of saying unreliable. Which at a relationship level is a fancy way of saying not trustworthy. I can't count on you. Yeah. Or you care more about not doing the thing than me looking bad. Because I'm the one that has to take the phone call. I'm the one that has to take the phone calls with angry customers. Yeah. So here's the spoiler alert, okay? And this is really hard to hear. You can't make him do anything. The only person you can control is you. Agreed. And the only thing I would ask of any of us, you especially, because you had the courage to call. Is don't. Don't choose misery on top of any decision you make. And here's what I mean by that. If you look at the totality of your relationship. I got a guy that's, man, I love him. He loves me. But man, he's unreliable. I love him. He loves me. He would rather live in his adult daughter's basement than build a home with me. I love this guy. He loves me. But he's fine at 75%. If you look at that world and you say, this is the bed I've made for myself and this is where I want to sleep. Then what I would ask you to do is open your hands and let that other stuff go. Because choosing to focus on that is a choice to be miserable on top of the world you've decided to create for yourself. Similarly, if you decide. How old are you? I'm 60. Okay. So you're 60. If you decide, you know what? I got 40 years left. And I don't want there to be any tread left on the tires. I'm worth more than 75% of somebody's heart and mind and spirit. I'm worth having a voice in my own home. I'll call this last 10 years good, great, fun. But I'm worth more than this. I'm worth more than this. Then don't choose misery on top of it looking back over your shoulder. Say I'm worth more than this and I'm going to go take as much action as I can. Is that a conversation I should be having with him? I think he. Again, all you can control is you. I always want folks to be honest in their relationship. And so if you're, if you find yourself getting to a point where you're ready to go. or you're starting to think I'm worth more than this. Yeah. I think that's a fair thing to say. Here's the boundary. If we're not, if you're not all in on this deal after 10 years, it breaks my heart, but you're allowed to do that. You're a grown man. If you want to keep living in your daughter's house until, you know, you leave this earth, you're allowed to do that. You're a grown man. But as for me, I want more than that with my life. I'm worth more than that. And I want more than that. I want somebody to give me a hundred percent of themselves because I want to give a hundred percent of myself to them. That makes sense. And it doesn't sound like an ultimatum, which is not what I wanted to do. Yeah. Well, I mean, an ultimatum is you do this or else. A boundary is if you want to be with me, here's the path I'm asking you to walk. Otherwise, here's what I'm going to do next. That's pretty scary. It's very scary because he might call your bluff. Yeah. Or more importantly, he might reveal what your guts know about the state of your relationship, which is he is doing whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. And he's got a pretty awesome woman who's willing to put up with it in his daughter's basement. Yeah. And he here's the, can I throw a grenade in the middle of your lap? Sure. I want you to have an honest conversation, a real truth, eyeopening reality conversation with 70 year old you 10 years from now, because you're going to have real health needs. You're going to have real security needs. You're going to need a roof over your head and lights on and heat on. Yeah. Those concerns have crossed my mind. They shouldn't cross your mind. They should be blinking in the middle of your chest with an alarm going off. Cause let's play this out. What if, um, he has a heart attack in three years? Where do you go? Where do you live? Not in his daughter's basement anymore. Yeah. That's a, what's your financial situation? You're probably, if he has a will, you're not a part of it. You're not even his wife. Well, he doesn't even have a will. Yeah. Um, and my, my, one of my best friends on the planet, his name is John. He said, the only reason not have a will is if you hate your wife and kids. Oh, that's a, I didn't have a will. I didn't have a will. I didn't have one years ago. And he's like, oh man, that's what he told me. And I got one within the week. I was like, oh my gosh, you're right. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's really important. What a dismissive, irresponsible, irresponsible, unloving thing to do is to not have a will. That is a middle finger in the face of those that you're going to leave behind. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely something that needs to happen. But, but here's the thing. It's not going to, you know this, I know this, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I mean, so I'm not saying you have to play this out. Um, maybe you have to leave his business and go get a full-time job because you need to get some money in retirement ASAP. I definitely have a full-time job. Okay. Yeah. I'm just doing that on the side. I work for myself actually. Are you, do you have money in retirement? Um, yes, a little bit. Not so while I was married, we were broke the entire time. So since I have left, I've been able to save money, but I had a very late start. Okay. And so this is just a way to look at 70 year old you and 80 year old you and say, what must I do at 60 to make sure my entire wellbeing is not outsourced to some government entity? And I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. And that is why I'm such a proponent, such a biased proponent of a legal and spiritually bound marriage because that's somebody saying you are now my responsibility till one or both of us dies and vice versa. I'm going to do whatever I can to be well so that I can spend the rest of my days giving myself fully over to you and vice versa. Yeah, I mean, in general, the whole lifestyle that we have, it hasn't gone that forward and it should, especially. The world you've painted me is, reminds me very much of my college students. Why is that? Just a guy who found a place to live and he's got a job that he's okay at, pretty good at sometimes when he's there and his girlfriend moves in. I feel bad that I painted that picture. No, don't feel bad. He might be crushing it in his job, right? Like he might be really an outstanding electrician doing good, all that stuff. Yeah. But here's the thing. You've been protecting his feelings for years. For your 10 years. Definitely. At the expense of yours. You don't even like me saying the truth of what, you know, it. I know, you're right. You know, it's hard for you to hear. And so when you say, I want this and he's like, you think, yeah, I should probably just shut up. Right. And if you get nothing off this call, I want you to like. At least hear me say you're worth not shutting up. And at the most, I want you to have a conversation with 70 year old you with 80 year old you, and listen to them plead with you to not shut up, to let your voice be heard to like what you want to be put on the table and be received with open arms. Cause this person loves you and wants to build a life with you. Yeah. You're worth that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being brave. And thank you so much for the call. I'm really, really grateful for the first time, maybe in a long time, consider protecting and honoring what's in the middle of your chest, what's in your guts before you go play defense and make sure everybody else's feelings are okay. Especially at the expense of yours. Thanks for the call. We come back. A woman asks how to find purpose and direction after leaving her decade long career. We'll be right back. Hey, it's the Lonnie for hallow. Listen. What could you accomplish in 90 days? You can get in shape. You can lose weight. You could change your marriage. 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Ask yourself, who do you want to be 90 days from now? If you want more peace. If you want to be a better person. If you want to be more grounded in your faith, or if you want to answer some big faith questions, give hallow a try again. You can try hallow for free for 90 days at hallow.com/deloney. That's three months for free at hallow.com/deloney. All right, let's go to Dallas, Texas and talk to Christine. Hey Christine, what's up? Hi. How are you? Dr. John. Doing great. How about you? I'm good. Thank you for asking. What's up? Okay. So I'm going to ask you a question. I'm going to ask you a question. I was given an opportunity to go to the dark side, which is healthcare marketing, and I excelled in it. I spent the last decade climbing the corporate ladder and found myself in a VP position. I never personally have been like this corporate mold person. I've always leaned into my own authenticity, which is by coaching and developing my teams was such a source of joy for me. About six months ago, and this wasn't just six months ago, it was a buildup. But about six months ago, I made the decision to leave after voicing concerns of patient safety, employee burnout, and just the need for general culture to be a priority. And I was met with pushback by ownership, just over and over, politics over accountability. And I became the scapegoat and a target. And I just grew more to realize that my values no longer align with this corporate culture. That I'm a part of. And now I don't know if I'm depressed, if I'm afraid to move forward, if I kind of feel lost. Oh man, the way you told that story, you sounds like the last 10 years have been an extraordinary journey for you. And the way you told that story, it sounds like you're free. Oh yeah, yeah. And I think people underestimate the weight of freedom. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, yeah. I've always been such a high-achieving, ambitious person, and I feel lost now. Like it was all for nothing. It was for everything. Because you know what you found? You found yourself, finally. Yeah. And she was hidden this whole time behind the next thing you needed to get to. And the next certificate that was gonna finally let you take a deep breath. And the next raise and paycheck and direct deposit that was gonna finally solve you. Yeah. Now you found this amazing thing that few people ever find anymore. And that is a woman who knows what she cares about. And it's untethered to your job title and money. Well, and that's the thing is I cared so much about, about my job title and how much I made, and I just don't anymore. Okay, so forgive 28-year-old you for, you know what I mean? Like, and 28-year-old you was doing exactly what she was trained to do. Have some grace for her. Yeah. Right? The same is like if 16-year-old you snuck some drinks one time and made bad choices, right? Yeah. How old are you now? 41. Okay, 41. Yeah, you told me that. You could look back on 16-year-old you at 40 and say, she was a kid. She made dumb choices, put herself in a wild seat. Like, I got some compassion. You would hug 16-year-old you. In the same way, hug 32-year-old you, 33-year-old you, that exhausted, fried woman who put off other things she wanted in her life to chase this thing that everyone said, once you get it, it will finally solve and fix and heal you. Go hug her. And say, hey, at 41, I want you to know we're finally free. And let her sob on your shoulder. But then it's finding that piece of me that was always able to move forward and figure it out. I kind of feel lost in that now. Yeah, because you're trying to solve, you're trying to solve an emotional problem with your thinking. Yeah. So let me ask you one question. When anyone asks me privately behind closed doors, jillionaires ask me this question. Really famous people ask me this question. Successful people ask me this question. And I'll give you the same, I'll ask you the same question I ask every one of them. Okay? Not forever, but today, tomorrow. Who do you want to help? oh gosh i i still go back to people like i still want to i i still want to i want to help others become the better the best versions of themselves period just let that sit for a second now the work is were you training people and loving people and supporting people on the illusion track you were on absolutely not that's the problem okay amazing so now the only question here's the thing if you went and worked at arby's today if you went and decided you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna go back into you hospital administration and i'm gonna throw myself in the gears of this thing i've decided it's the hill i'm gonna die on but i will make a change for the nurses that come after because if i make a change for the nurses i'm gonna make a change for the exhausted fried scared to death families that are going to walk in our in our hospitals or if you decided to start a lawn care company today you are somebody who cares about other people you whatever whatever like uh outfit you have to put on to go do that whatever costume you have to wear whatever uniform you have to wear whatever job title you're gonna have who cares yeah i know this you know what i mean like i again logically know this i just don't want to be stuck in this feeling forever like like um because it's almost made it's almost left me with a feeling of what's wrong with me that i want to i just want to help build others up but there's two two things to this number one you can't give what you don't have so my first question to you would be what are you doing to build yourself back up oh that's physically emotionally spiritually relationally what are the action steps you're taking on a day-to-day basis so that you can refill your pitcher so you can spend the rest of your life doing what you're put on this planet to do which is to fill everybody else's water glasses i think that's the real question what what should i be doing john well i mean that goes to the second thing can i i learned this from michael easter it's one of the greatest one word answers ever you know what you should do something okay you have boxed yourself into a paralyzed right or wrong if i take one more step it's going to end up on another 10-year trajectory i'll fill in the blank yeah wow and then you try to drag 10 years problems that are imaginary and not real yet back into your body today for them to solve it and it can't it's too much and it's not even real that's what's happening that's exactly what's happening yeah so you know we're going to do something what does that mean do you still have your your nurse's license oh of course yeah okay you think go get a job tomorrow go plug pick lines in for six months spend the extra 30 seconds smiling at a scared mom okay you know we're going to do something what does that mean do you still have your nurse's license oh of course yeah okay you think go get a job tomorrow go plug pick lines in for six months spend the extra 30 seconds smiling at a scared mom you know we're going to do something what does that mean do you still have your nurse's license oh of course yeah and ask yourself if the system is worth saving or was it just that you got burned by a couple of unethical immoral leaders but actually every system on the planet has problems okay you know what i'm saying i just made that up go go to starbucks and start working tomorrow okay , and look at the the line of exhausted men and women coming in and smile at them and just say i'm glad you're here okay yeah you're right it's you're not going to think your way through a feeling the way to disprove a feeling in your body is to take action and let it experience and let it experience other feelings you get what i'm saying it's so simple but it sounds so hard yeah i completely understand a feeling is just your body trying to get your attention and so if you think try to think it away it's going to keep trying to get your attention but i'm going to go do something else do something different i'm going to feel different things but i'm going to go do something different i'm going to feel different things you get what i'm saying yeah yeah i do i do thank you can i ask you a two reality questions yeah what's the state of your finances right now Um, well, they were, they were, they were good and it's been six months, so now they're not so good anymore. Okay. What does that mean? It means I need to get a job tomorrow. Okay. But what does it mean on paper? Um, I'm struggling at this point. Okay. What does that mean? It means I have no money at this point. Okay. Are you in danger of losing your house? Yes. Okay. Are you having to pick which bill to pay and not pay each month? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Your body would be failing you if it wasn't sounding every alarm it has right now. Okay. Here's why I said that. Your body's working perfectly. It's trying to love you well. It's not the enemy. You're not the enemy of you. I just feel like a failure. I know. What do you think you failed? Myself. I don't know. I put so much of my own identity into my job, which I know is healthy, but I have, it was, uh, for so long, a sense of joy and accomplishment that I didn't have in my life because I knew I was doing something. I was getting that, um, when people are telling you that you're doing a good job, you know, your team is happy with what you're doing. It was just as a sense of joy that I wasn't getting for a long, long time. Yeah. And do you see now in the rear view mirror how that was an outsourcing? Absolutely. Yeah. And the question, the moment I knew it was, but yeah, I, yeah, we all, we all do it. And dude, I've been there, man. I called it my wall of plaques. Like I, you know what I would do for another plaque on my wall? Anything, anything you're going to do for an extra thousand dollar raise anything, right? It wasn't even about the money. It was about, I like one more little notch that I had some sort of value, but I, I'm not saying this just, I'm not just throwing words at you. You didn't fail. You won. You've set yourself free from a prison. That's always been locked on the inside. You said eventually I'm worth more than this. We are all collectively worth more than this and they burn you to the ground for it. And in the same way, the external praise was never really real. The external criticism isn't real either. Oh, wow. Yeah. I sat on that for a second. Yeah. It's all a shadow. It's all a shadow. The question is, can you look yourself in the mirror and put your fist in your chest and say, I love this woman. I think I can. Yeah. Okay. If you can't, I've been there and I want you to go sit down and talk to somebody. I'll give you three months of better help for free for somebody to call today. Okay. Okay. Because I know finances are tight. Thank you. But after you get your feet underneath you, I want you to go sit down with somebody in person. Unwinding identity is hard. It's hard, hard, hard, but it's not a thing you think yourself towards. Yeah, I've told a few people this recently on the show. I'll tell you this too. Tonight or this morning, this afternoon, I want you to write a letter to a 50 year old you. Okay. And I want you to tell her the things that you did when you stood up and dusted yourself off at 41 so that she could have the amazing life she has. I'll do that. And I want you to think amazing life bigger than square footage and dollar amount. There is a financial reality you've got to meet, right? But I want you to give that woman peace. You've never had that. No. I want you to give that woman laughter and warmth and friends. Someone to go on dates with and make out with. Ew. Right? I want you to. What do you have to. Invest in now. Will a 50 year old you know how to dance? Will she know jujitsu? Will she run a marathon by the. What life are you going to give her? Yeah. Because you are officially free from the burden and the shackles of performance. And you're also. I know. And that feels amazing. Yeah. And just because it doesn't feel amazing doesn't mean it isn't amazing. Right. Right. It can feel scary. It can feel terrifying. Freedom usually is. And that's why we cash in our freedom for convenience. And we. And illusions and whatever. Because it's scary. It's heavy. It's a responsibility. But I bet you could have a job within 24 hours. Is that fair? I. 100% yes. Okay. Give it 30 days. Put 30 days on the calendar. And if you find yourself getting buried again, you find those old demons coming back, you find you can't sleep again, you're getting anxious again, put in your two week notice and walk out the door. Okay? Okay. Nothing you do next is a forever thing. Okay. Yeah. I'm six and a half years into a two year experiment. Right? Like, it just is. I'm really, really honored that you called. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. John. You're a good woman. Thank you. And I'm glad you. The hill you died on was on behalf of people working for you and with you and those patients who are scared to death bringing and hurting kids into your hospital. Thank you for that. Thank you. Because one day that's me bringing my daughter in. That's me bringing my son in. And I want someone like you that cares. Enough to say, we're going to treat these people differently. And we're going to treat the people taking care of them differently. Thank you for that. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for what you do. No, thank you. And tomorrow, if a burly, mean, tattooed up Texan walks into your hospital, jab him a little bit harder and just say, "That's for you, Deloney." That's what you get. Appreciate the call, sister. We come back. A woman asks how to quit smoking when she's tried everything. And spent years on a healing journey. We'll be right back. All right, this drives me bonkers, but our culture has made being exhausted something to be proud of. People brag about how busy they are, how little sleep they get, and how exhausted they always feel. Being tired is not a flex. You know what's a flex? Getting good sleep. And good sleep starts with a great mattress. And that's why I love mattresses from Helix Sleep. Helix is not just a show. They're a co-sponsor for me. I love them. My kids sleep on Helix. I sleep on Helix. Even my extended family members and friends, they're all starting to sleep on Helix mattresses because I won't shut up talking about them, even in my private life, when the cameras and the microphones are off. Imagine if the people who made your pants made just one pair of pants for everyone, regardless of size, fit. That's what companies do with mattresses. They just make one. And they ship them out to everybody. Helix does the same thing. Helix does the same thing for everyone. I mean, I went as far as a guided psychedelic journey with a heroic dose. So I've done the alphabet soup of therapies. I've done everything. And I did have one very brief but successful smoke-free three whole days. But it wasn't just that. It was nothing short of miraculous, and it was euphoric. And the only way I can describe it, I was literally touched by the hand of God and had the Lord's perfect peace over me for three solid days. What happened on day four? Oddly enough, I was in church. I was silently crying in the back of the church, thanking God for this miracle that, you know, I wasn't living on cloud nine. I was still living in reality, but I knew things could happen, but I could handle them. And everything was great. And I was in just such awe of this beautiful experience. And I got home from church, and I explained to—whenever I was being screened for the call, I explained that I've always described smoking for me like a toothache that never goes away. And those three days, it was like, not only did I get an antibiotic, but the dentist took care of it, and it was beautiful. And then all of a sudden, the toothache was back. And from like 1130 noon that Sunday after church until about 8 o'clock. That night, I did everything from this quit program that I had learned. It was a CBT-based quit program, and it was very profoundly helpful. It was like reverse engineering what I had learned to program into me to smoke. It was brilliant, and it was the first time I was ever really hopeful that this could be, you know, an easy experience and be happy about it. And I truly was. And by 8 o'clock that night, everything that I had done was just like— Like, I'm just going to buy a pack of cigarettes, and that's what I did. So what is— So let me say at the outset, I am so far from an expert on this, okay? Okay. The most, like, what I would call, like, the word I would use is wild, which is not helpful. The most ardent smokers I know who've stopped— Who've stopped smoking swear by a few things, and I'll pass those along to you, okay? But you've gotten enough of that advice over the last 30 years that I'll just be putting it—another couple of things in the wheelbarrow, right? The real question I want to ask you is, what does smoking do for you? It's a vicious circle of anxiety, and I can't live without it. I mean, that's— That's not— That's not something around I've been on for years. That's a—that was, like, a really dramatic way of saying. What does it give you? Peace? No. Anxiety. Smoking doesn't give you anxiety. Something gives it—well, let me say this. I actually put this in my email to you all. I heard a quote somewhere in my 40s. I don't know who said it, but it's—the opposite of addiction is not surprise. It's anxiety. It's connection. And that's when I was like, wow, that's really swimming in my head. Like, that just resonated. But I didn't know what the connection was to. So that's what started me on this very different, you know, CBT and IFS and EMDR and the alphabet soup of therapies. Hold on. That quote is from Johan Hari, and he wrote a phenomenal book called Lost Connections, which is—it's an extraordinary book. There's been some clinical pushback. To that, like, that statement, I like it, and also it doesn't solve every problem, right? So it's one of those—it's a great new lens to look at addiction. But I think underneath it is reframing addiction as not the problem. Addiction's solving a problem. Right. And for the life of me, I'm not sure what that is. Okay. So let's back all the way out. Okay. Okay. So, even if what Johan Hari said is 100% accurate, that addiction is a lack of connection, you haven't sought connection. You've sought a whole bunch of different modalities. Like, you went on yet another adventure to not make close personal friends who love you and let you feel seen and known and celebrated. I have that. Okay. If you've got that, great. If you've got thousands, yeah. I'm very, very blessed with family, with extended family. I don't have thousands. I've got six. Well, six is better than none. Thousands is a lot. You can hide in a crowd of a thousand. You can't hide in a crowd of three. No, it's not thousands. I'm, of course, being facetious, but I don't have just a handful of great friends. I have multiple, multiple handfuls of great friends, good family, et cetera. Okay, so let's assume then for you, smoking is not about not being connected. Okay. What if, and I'm over my skis here. Okay. I'll phrase it this way. When somebody calls and says, I can't, like, I yell at my kids all the time and I want to stop. And so I'm going to see a therapist to figure out where the yelling started in my life and yada, yada. I always tell them to stop. Like, stop that adventure for a second. Don't ever yell at your kids again. Do whatever you have to do. Figuring out where the yelling comes from, that's important. We'll get there. But the yelling at your kids has to stop now, today. Walk out the front door. Smash yourself with a hammer. Go set your hair on fire. I don't care what you have to do. Don't yell at your kids. And what I find almost always is people. People will go, oh, okay. Because you know what? They don't yell at their boss. And they don't yell at their grandmother. They have the ability to do that thing, that really hard thing. They just have to shift the context. Okay. Well, I've done that very thing, too, with the yelling. But that was me for a long time. And I did manage to tackle that. And I never set my hair on fire. I hit myself with a hammer. Of course. Don't do either of those things. Way easier than I expected it to be. The most common thing I hear from successful. People like yourself who want to quit smoking is Alan Carr's book. I've read that. Okay. That's been the most successful thing I've heard. And I've had a few friends who've done the hero's dose. And they don't touch alcohol or cigarettes or anything anymore. Yeah. Do I have like some kind of chemical block in my brain or something? I'm just at a loss. Like, how does this work for so many people? And I have this amazing. I have this amazing experience and then lost it. And I even went and repeated the program. But of course, at that point, I was, I fully admit, I was very hesitant and unsure of myself at that point. Like, I failed this. In the meantime, I did do it. And I, for a long time, didn't focus on that part of it. I was more focused on, I went back, I went back, I went back, I did it again. So I kind of pulled myself out of that loop. But yeah, but you keep putting yourself back. The stories you tell yourself. Are so powerful. Yes. Like, so powerful about just how the world is. I can tell by how you talk. Like, you have such a powerful storytelling machine. Every human being is a storyteller. It's who we are. I tell stories for a living. That's my job, right? But you are a powerful internal storyteller. Yes. A plus. Yeah. And so if, if ultimately the, the meta story you've told yourself, is I can't, and there is not a single modality on planet earth that will overcome that period. Yeah. I feel like I'm doing okay. And then I do revert back to that. I know, but you, you live in such binary either, or I'm the greatest ever, or I'm the worst ever. And that's my story. And I'm sticking to it. You have no capacity for grace for yourself. Well, it's very small, whatever it is. Cause it comes in very small doses. And then I'm again, right back on the spiral. Yeah. But you, after three blissful days and a really hard Sunday could have had a cigarette, two cigarettes, four cigarettes at eight o'clock and got up at five 30 the next morning and said, you know what? For the last five days, last four days, I've only had four cigarettes. What a freaking win. Yeah. Totally didn't. You can't do that. No, you smoked half a pack and you said, again, like confirmation, I can't do this. I'm a loser. I'm always going to have a problem with this. And you went to bed and got up and woke up next morning and started smoking again. So it's, it's, it's so much of it depends on the framing, the stories that you're telling yourself. Okay. But at the end of the day, if yes, let's say nicotine is a world-class addictive substance. Hello pot. This is pot talking to kettle here. It's good. Um, and so if, if you've made the. move to zens and alps and whatever pouches and sprays and whatever and patches and none of that's worked then i i don't think it's a a chemical thing no oh no it's and when i did quit like the program explained three to five days you know all nicotine should be out of your system explained about the withdrawals i had absolutely no withdrawals you did on sunday and i did i had a mental one on sunday the physicality part of it was fine i know you spending energy telling yourself the oh this is a mental one this is a body one this is a gut one you're just it just goes back to like don't yell at your kids okay does that make sense okay yes yes that does okay and but no you've tried everything on the planet i would have told you to try and at some point i'd sit down with a physician and say what's next i wouldn't give up the surge no i definitely i definitely am not um it's just a matter of you know like i question some of the modalities that i've used even like emdr was helpful in the moment but i didn't really feel like it you know it helped me with the instance we worked on the emdr with but never really got to the root cause of you know why i still have these thoughts or why i can't get over them sure um i move you know move forward in a progressive fashion with this particular vice um and i just firmly believe that this one vice when i conquer this i will conquer the world and i know i can conquer the world conquer the world now um it's just a matter of convincing my my subconscious or my unconscious brain of that whatever whatever the story is that i'm repeatedly telling myself i need to tell myself a new story yeah and i would spend this goes counter to what i normally tell people i would actually recommend spending less time in your subconscious right now like try a radical approach of your new identity being i don't smoke okay i'm a woman who doesn't smoke and the new i'm almost thinking of like james clear's like i'll buy a pack of cigarettes and i'll smoke one i'm gonna throw it away the same as when he's telling people to who want to lose weight and start getting in shape just for the first two weeks three weeks four weeks drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot for five minutes and go home because your new identity is i'm a guy who drives to the gym we're going to change this thing a little bit at a time okay i'm a woman who just smokes one cigarette per pack that's who i am okay and you're gonna get really pissed off really quick because it's that's a lot of money you're gonna be throwing away oh i i mean i've spent thousands to quit while still smoking and spending thousands so it's i mean you know i was i i i shudder to think if i totaled that up over you know 30 years yeah don't do that really really angry you'd be a multi-millionaire that's right i mean at the end of the day you've done you've gone to a lot of boxing lessons but you haven't had a fight yet you've done a ton of modalities you've learned about a lot of stuff you've circled the wagon on so many things and all of this has still managed to avoid the story you tell yourself when you look in the mirror i'm a woman who i'm a woman who is and to the day i die one of the hills i'll die on is that people have the ability to change their story when you change that identity then you start reverse engineering with actions that affirm that new identity and you sometimes you got to get radical i have no access to my money the first six months i have no access to my car keys i can't drive to the store i don't have my i have a flip phone now so i can't even order like cigarettes on delivery i can't even order like cigarettes on delivery i can't even order like cigarettes on delivery i'll go to the ends of the earth and it's gonna be a miserable one week two weeks four weeks six weeks i want to quit this thing because i'm not a woman who does x y z you're putting in the work i applaud you for keeping going don't give up don't give up we'll be right back this show is sponsored by better help summer's a time when people escape whether it's relaxing going on vacation or going to the movies or going to the movies or going to the movies or going to the movies or going to the movies or going to the movies we've all been sold this lie that if we could just get away from it all everything will magically work itself out when we return here's the thing a vacation won't fix what you won't face if you're anxious burned out or struggling these problems will be waiting for you when you get home and this is why i recommend better help better help is an online therapy platform that fits into your life you can talk with a licensed therapist by phone video or messaging from anywhere no commuting no sitting in a waiting room just a safe place to process what's actually going on in your life and all of better helps therapists follow a strict code of conduct you can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the app if it's not the right fit you can switch anytime for no extra cost this summer don't ignore what's coming to the surface sometimes the strongest thing you can do is stop running from it and start dealing with it go to betterhelp.com deloney to get 10 off that's better help help.com deloney all right we're back kelly let's talk more about the app yeah you know me yes for those that don't know what he's talking about when he says that we're talking about the together app i think everybody knows everyone should yes but i'm naughty by nature yes we're moving right on past that um this one's a little deeper this question i have you know usually we talk about kind of the make your spouse a cup of coffee right and then we talk about the together app and we talk about the a note people that are just disconnected or they're feeling a little more like roommates or that kind of thing so we you know our bread and butter on the show is people been cheated on or something's happened that's blown up their marriage so this is a step farther than just the we don't talk like we used to when you have somebody that they've there's been a breach in trust how can something like this help them um actually we're working on some very specific tracks inside of this thing um i think all of us were caught off guard by the number of people who buy this app and report they're dealing with some sort of uh betrayal is the word that we use inside the app but it for in some way um their spouses betrayed their trust and so moving forward i think there's a couple of things and it feels so big right um you find out your spouse cheated on you you find out your spouse has a secret whatever or a past or they didn't tell you about whatever it feels so big and so it's hard to see what's a path through this um the first path is always asking yourself do you want to stay and if you do what most people don't realize is if i choose to stay i have responsibilities inside of this too and it's easy when somebody betrays you that they need to carry it all they can't um that you're going to get out of the boat y'all share that they just blew up and you're going to cross your arms and watch as they row and see how fast they row they're going to get better at rowing but you're not your relationship isn't going to rebuild and so the first thing you have to ask yourself is do you want to stay in this thing and if you do then in the app we have bite-sized chunks of seven days and then seven days and then 14 days of what must be true for me to re-establish trust you to re-establish trust with me and it's a roadmap for rebuilding trust and we're going to walk through that thing together and on a daily basis we're going to have that conversation how can i trust you today how can i love you today and it's going to be a practice and at the end of that and it's not always going to feel a certain way that's why the app is so important it's not always going to feel like you're i can trust you yet but you did all the things i asked yesterday we're going to get up and go again today we're going to get up and go again tomorrow and what's going to happen is you're going to lay a new foundation brick by brick and you're going to look up in six months and there's going to be an entire foundation and half of a wall built to this new marriage you're rebuilding so um it's hard but it's a step-by-step process the the biggest challenges i see people run into is a they lay down a here's what must be true you cheated on me here's what must be true for you to re-establish trust and your spouse says i'm not doing that i'm not giving you my cell phone i'm not going to quit that job where that woman still works there like and you got to deal with that app can't help you with that right um or like i said you want your spouse to have to participate in everything and you don't want to you want to put that affair in your back pocket that pornography addiction your back pocket and hold it like an ace of spades and the app walks you through exercises to tear that ace of spades up if you say you're back in you got work to do also is that helpful yeah it is um and i think that applies also i can see it applying to not just like breaks it infidel like infidelity type things oh financial infidelity yeah job loss whatever it is something big lack of respect yeah yeah i can see that being helpful yeah and the hard part of that is the work that you have to do like yourself that's the i mean it's a hard part on the other person's too but yeah it's really easy to just stand there and go you do the work and i may be speaking for personal experience on this one. Maybe, maybe. I'm like, you do the work and let me know when you're done, when you're better, when you've fixed it and then I'll participate. Exactly. We both got to work on it together and that's never fun. Bye.