Caller: “I Still Pay My Ex-Girlfriend’s Bills”

brought to you by my friends at churchill mortgage if you're looking to buy or refinance check them out i've used churchill and they are great go to churchillmortgage.com how do i make a firm decision whether i continue to support my ex-girlfriend or walk away it's not really together but we're still in communication pretty often and is she seeing other people i don't know probably if i'm being honest how are you still intertwined with her emotionally and financially to an extent you're still supporting her a little bit you know what does that mean what's going on this is john with the dr john deloney show coming to you from nashville tennessee taking your calls real people going through real challenges walking through what's the next right move if you want to be on this show i would love to have you on click the link in the description below and i'll see you next time bye the show notes wherever you're watching or listening to this show and it will go to kelly our overlord and she will get you on the show let's go to los angeles california and talk to alan hey alan what's up ma'am hey dr john how are you today i'm good brother what's going on so the question was how do i make a firm decision whether i continue to support my ex-girlfriend or walk away how old are you uh 26 26 okay so tell me about this relationship ma'am yeah so uh we met in end of 2022 uh we were together for just about four years or so um the first you know two years were pretty good everything was uh was pretty smooth sailing but uh in 2024 which kind of led to this kind of question itself was um she came from a single parent home and in may of 2024 unfortunately her mother uh was unexpectedly diagnosed with stage four cancer and she was diagnosed with stage four cancer and she was diagnosed with stage four cancer uh it was a surprise diagnosis and uh unfortunately about just under four months later she passed oh my gosh dude yeah so uh a lot happened after that which led to us kind of having a long-distance relationship that she had to go live with some family and eventually in 2025 we ended up separating um and uh so you know post separation we kind of go back in contact a couple months later through her and uh it's been a little bit of a while since we've been together for a long time and uh it's been a little bit of a roller coaster ever since then and just kind of put me in a really hard position as we're not really together but we're still you know in communication pretty often and i'm still helping her out but it's kind of a point putting me in a kind of a weird situation of what to do with myself if that makes sense yeah how old is she uh she's uh 29 29 okay um so how can i help i can't figure out the question beneath the question and here's here's what's going on in my head and then point out where i'm wrong um there was a time i took a job in another city after dating a woman for off and on for four years and right when she graduated she packed up her bags not knowing anybody and moved eight hours away to come be with me and there's been other times and i ended up marrying her and yesterday we celebrated 24 years together there's also been times when i have moved long distances to be with with her and vice versa and so i guess if it's just a matter of geography my question to you would be why haven't you you're 26 man why haven't you just packed up and as the great will hunting once said go see about a girl or she's 29 years old like losing a uh your last remaining parent losing any parents devastating right um and also she's almost 30 and yeah that doesn't mean the grief isn't going to be any less that doesn't mean that anything's going to be easy but there is a after gosh i've been together for a long time now or y'all been in contact and relationship for a long time at some point we say hey you're going to be my person and i'll figure out the rest later so what's the difference between what's that those are things going through my head so i can't really get to the bottom of your question does she not want to get back together with you um like yeah so i guess i'm sorry the the main issue isn't myself i have no problem i wanted to move with her but the problem is like i said post passing away of her mother and then you know post any relationship and just being in contact she doesn't really know what she wants to do with her life in general if that makes sense like is she seeing other people um i don't know probably if i'm being honest i don't know she doesn't really share much of her personal life with me as much as i do with her okay so the the the abrupt uh kind of call it like it is part of of me is wanting to say dude she walked away from you and so like you calling and saying like should i walk away should i what should i do like it sounds like it's already been done am i wrong no you're not wrong i think the biggest issue i'm having with myself is kind of just learning to kind of create those boundaries where i'm not so emotionally involved with with just how she is or helping her out because she isn't really what's the word i don't want to be disrespectful like not really doing anything with herself her life yeah but if she if she broke up with you or you broke up with her and she's telling you i don't want to get back together with you and you're not going to get back together with her and you're not going to get back together with her yeah what she's what she's telling you either in word or in action or sounds like both i don't want you a part of this next chapter of my life it's hard i mean it's it's one of the most brutal things a person can go through besides acute loss like i lost somebody i care about somebody passed away one of the worst things that people can go through is watching somebody you care about make choices that look from our vantage point like this they're not serving them well and they don't want or care or need our input it's heartbreaking yeah it's been difficult to say the least how are you still intertwined with her um i guess both emotionally and financially to an extent if that makes sense you're still supporting her a little bit you know what does that mean um well just what some things that she needs to like some bills and stuff she's asked in the past and it's not hard time saying no sometimes yeah bro you have to cut everything off yeah yeah i've been trying well as as the great yoda once said there is there's do or do not there's no try like you stop paying her bills because now now you're just this constant oh man yeah you're in a tough spot brother here's the thing let's reframe the whole question let's stop thinking about her for a second okay at 26 years old if you look at the totality of your life and the actions you're taking right now are you proactively becoming the man you want to be no okay so let's stop looking or outsourcing our value our worth or what do i do next based on this other person who lives a long way from us who broke up with us and is clearly going through something going through a whole bunch of things yeah let's look in the mirror and say what must be true what kind of man do i want to become can i keep my promises to myself i don't want to be to myself right because that's all you can control you can't control whether she calls you and asks you for money she can't control whether you text her every day and she doesn't respond but once a week you can't control if she's hooking up with other guys you can't control any of that you can control you and how you treat yourself with dignity and respect moving forward and part of that is i'm not going to pay the bills of somebody who in every other way clearly lets me know they don't want anything to do with me and i'm not going to be at 26 years old be a surrogate financial supporter yeah no that's a good way to put it i appreciate that and so my question for you is who do you want to be man what kind of man do you want to become uh i guess just think about it right now what you said just having some a little bit more self-respect and boundaries not a little bit a ton a ton more yeah a ton more here's let me just cut it cut to the chase brother i have a 16 year old and a 10 year old i need you and every other 26 year old male listening to this show to become sturdy stable men who dedicate their lives to giving more than they take who dedicate their lives to serving themselves so that those around them can anchor into them and they can spend the rest of their lives serving everybody else. That means taking care of your finances. That means taking care of your fitness. That means keeping your promises to yourself. That means having a bunch of guys that you regularly hang out with and you practicing saying the words no, especially to somebody who is, for all matter of purposes, predatory, who's using you and your kindness and your sensitivity. Don't ever lose your kindness and sensitivity. We need more men with kindness and sensitivity, but kindness and sensitivity has to be anchored. Otherwise, it becomes passivity and doormat. You become a doormat, right? Yeah, yeah. Or in a weird way, you use, y'all, it's this co-parasitic relationship where she doesn't talk to you, doesn't talk to you, does whatever she wants, gets herself in a bind. Calls you and it's like, hey, remember, hey, can I? And she's using you and you feel aimless and kind of spun out and still heartbroken. This is your first great love of your life and you give her money that you may or may not have. And in the process, you outsource your dignity, your respect, and you're using her to make yourself feel a little bit better. Yeah. Right? Right. Both people stop using each other. You can't control what she does, but you can sure control you. Yeah. Yeah. And it may be just metabolizing this relationship is over. And that is heartbreaking. Yeah. Honey, start doing that too. Thank you. Do it from a place of self-worth because I'm worth it. And not from a place of, oh, there's 50 other things I need to do because I suck. You get the difference? Yeah, I get the difference. Yeah. And can also, I just tell you, man, getting your heart broken, it's the worst, man. And nobody is their best self when they get their heart broken. You went all in on this deal. Yeah. I'm sorry that happened, my friend. And dude, I'm really grateful that you reached out. And, um, here, here, here's a couple of action steps for you. I want you to spend some time by yourself. Block her number for a week, two weeks, 30 days. Or you, I mean, you've been in a relationship with her off and on for six years. So maybe let her know, but I want you to spend some time by yourself with a pen and a paper, not a, not a notes app and not with an AI bot, but I want you to spend some time with a pen and a paper writing down. What do you value? What here's the man I want to be and come up with four or five. I want to be a man who, four or five identities, and then begin to just fill in action steps. I want to be a man who can take care of himself. Okay, cool. What's my financial situation. I want to be a man that people can count on physically. All right. Have I been to the gym ever? I want to be a man who's got dignity and self-respect. All right, cool. Then I'm going to start serving the least of these in my community once a week. And I'm going to start over tipping whenever I go out with my friends and three, I'm going to have a group of friends that I meet with regularly in person, not online, and we're going to start figuring out how to do life together. And it's just these action steps, man, you are worth taking action for. Sorry that this girl broke your heart. Sorry, this thing just fell apart. The question you have to ask yourself is what are you going to do next? And my hope in this season is that. You choose you. We come back. A man asks how he should handle discovering his mom is having an affair. Oh boy. We'll be right back. Hey, it's Deloney for delete me. No matter what you do, whatever you buy, wherever you happen to be your personal information, your private personal information is everywhere. If you want to buy something online, you have to supply your info all over the place. You have to give your home. Address your phone number, your email address. 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Oh, I wish I was talking to you out hunting or something like that, but this seems to be the thing. This is the situation that we're in. I wish I was out there too. That'd be awesome. We'll figure that out one day. What's up? Um, well, I was calling about a family situation. Um, next month, my parents will be, uh, celebrating their 45th wedding anniversary. And, uh, my dad booked a family trip, not your typical thing to do for your anniversary, but booked a whole family trip. So me and my four siblings and then, uh, all of my family. All of the grandkids, he's going to take us out there, um, on a family cruise. And, um, a couple of weeks ago, I was helping my, uh, parents hook up the thermostat and stuff like that. And, uh, my mom gave me her phone to, uh, hook up the thermostat. And, um, I discovered that she was having an affair. Oh no. Oh man, dude. I'm sorry. You saw that. I'm sorry. That's happening. I'm sorry. All of it. All of it. Yeah. So what happened right after that? Did you do anything? Did you say anything? Nope. Nope. Haven't told anyone. Haven't even told my wife. Haven't told anyone. So I'm just trying to seek counsel on, on where, where I would go first, whether it be pastor or siblings or my wife and I live right next door to them. And so we're a lot closer. Do you have parents? Yes. Yep. Okay. So. Um, man, there's so many avenues here. Um, first and foremost, before the day's over, I would tell your wife that secret's going to eat you alive from the inside of your chest, inside your own home, inside the secret world that you and your wife have called being married. Yep. Right. And the devastating part about that for your wife is she can tell something's bothering you and she's probably attuned and is going to blame herself. And try to solve something. Well, my wife, she, I think she has her own suspicions about my mom's affair. Um, and so this feeling in the back of our minds. And then this was the very first, like, Oh, this is actually happening. And we can probably say that it's been going on longer than what it actually, than what we think it may have actually, because she's always been protective. Okay. of her phone and hiding it for the last couple of years. I'm going to lay out a couple of scenarios for you, but I want to give you a couple of 30,000-foot weather balloons that I want you to keep in the air at all times. Let's call them satellites out in space, okay? Satellite number one, I want you to look at your wife and say, whatever is going on next door in my parents' house, we will not let into our marriage, okay? So make that commitment to yourself and make that commitment out loud to your wife, looking her in the eyes, holding her hands if you can, okay? Because y'all are up for a rocky road, okay? So that's number one. Number two, satellite, and this is going to sound nuts, you never, even if it's your parents, even if you're in the house and it's down the hall, you never know what's going on behind closed doors. And here's what I mean. Your dad may have had his suspicions for years too. Yep. I would imagine so. Your dad may quasi know about it and have chosen to look the other way. Or your dad may be so unaware that, who knows? Your mom may have had affairs in the past. Your dad may have had affairs in the past that they worked through on their own that you and your siblings know nothing about. So it's just holding it up. And here's the important part. It's less about what you want them to do and it's about who you're going to be. And so who you are going to be is a guy who doesn't make up stories, but who just decides here's what me and my wife are going to do next. You know what I'm saying? Yep. And that leads me to the third thing. The only person you can control in this situation is you. Yep. And so my question for you is, it's not, you have a pastor, so it sounds like you're a person of faith. Yep. Okay. Yep. So, if your faith is in any sort of proximity to mine, rule number one is if I have a problem with somebody, I'm going directly to that person. Okay. And in the- I'm not the best at confrontation. So that's where- So write it down. I feel like- Write it down. One of my siblings. Go ahead. Write it down and read it to her. Okay. I would write it down and sit it on my mom's front porch. I would take my mom to coffee. I would whatever. And here's what's important about these conversations. It's not a matter of asking. It's not a matter of, so are you going to? It's a matter of you saying, here's what I saw. Here's what I now know. Here's what my suspicions have been for a long time. Here's what I'm going to do next. So for instance, I'm going to give you 48 hours to tell dad. And then I'm going to tell my father. Because I'm not allowing what you have done in your extramarital relationship to impact my relationship with my dad. You get what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. And so instead of, are you going to tell him? What do you mean you're not going to tell him? You're taking your agency and handing it across the table to a person who it appears from the outset, from what you found, lacks integrity. Yeah. I'm not going to outsource my values to somebody like that. And so whenever I, and contrary to popular belief, sometimes I'm real, real good at it. And sometimes I'm not good at these type of confrontations. I've often written things down and I'll tell the person, I don't want to stumble through my words. And so I'm going to read this directly and then we can respond with a conversation. But I want you to wait until I'm done reading. And I've never had a person tell me no. Yeah. The toughest part is that I'm closest to my mom than I am with my dad. I'm, I'm close with my dad, but nothing like I am with my mom. Sure. Um, which, which in a weird way makes it all the more important for you to be the one who has this conversation. But I, I honestly would not bring my siblings in yet. I think just going in order. Yeah. I'm going to talk to the person I'm going to set whatever ground rules I want to. I will never tell dad it's up to you, but I'll always know. And we're going to go on this family trip with all the grandkids and smile and wave, but I'll know it's what's going on, or we're not going to go on this trip or you have 48 hours to come clean to dad. And then y'all two can come sit in our living room. You get to decide which part of this. What, what you want to do next. I'm going to give you 48 hours and I'm going to tell dad, and then I'm going to tell our siblings, because I can't carry all this by myself. Yeah. And by the way, you're the kid. So it's not your job to carry all of this for her. She's the adult. I mean, you're an adult too, but she's the parent, right? Yeah. And, and hold space for, she may blow your mind with something. Your dad's been cheating on me for years. Yeah. Your dad's frighteningly abusive. Your dad, like, who knows? I've heard, dude, I've heard every story under the sun sitting with people in the middle of these conversations, but the question I want you to keep asking yourself is what kind of man do I want to be now that this grenade has gone off in my living room? Yeah. So what did you find? What'd you see? Um, pictures, 40 max text messages. I love use, um, wish I could stop by and kiss you just everything. I wish I hadn't seen. Yeah. One from the integrity part of it all. And then one from like, that's just your, your mom, right? Like, I don't want to see that. Yeah. Jeez, man. So what have you been wrestling with? What? When you, when you, I know you've run these imaginary conversations in your head over and over. What do they sound like? Um, my biggest thing is do I, uh, I I'll take your advice and bring it up with my wife first off right away, but do I just let the family have one last trip of enjoyment and not ruin everyone's trip? Can I pause you right here? Yep. You have ruined nothing. That's true. You are responding to a bomb blast. You did not detonate it. Yep. And regardless of what your siblings say, I can't believe you did this. What your mom says, you're going to ruin everything. I need you to hear my words. Now if you go blast this all over the place and you send out Facebook requests like next door at, I mean you could, and yes, you will have ruined stuff because you didn't handle this with integrity. And. Yeah. I mean, and, and respect, she's still your mother and I'm still going to honor her even though she's doing a dishonorable thing, but bro, you are simply responding to a grenade that somebody else pulled the pin on. Would you blame me if I waited until after the cruise to confront her or tell anyone else? This is it. I I'm not going to sit in a, in a seat of judgment, man, I'm going to sit here with you. Okay. So what I, the challenge I would put before you is, um, do you become part of the lie or when your dad sobbing into his own hands, looks up at you and says, when did you know? Yeah. And you let me spend $50,000 taking the family on a, on a farce on a charade. I want to be able to have that conversation with integrity. Yeah. Or, and here's the other thing you can look at him and say, yeah, I made a call, dad. I got put in an impossible situation and I made a call. Maybe it was the, maybe it was a bad call. I'll own it. I'm a grown man with my own house, my own family. I made a bad call or I made what I thought was the right call. I wanted everyone to have one last go round before this thing imploded. Yep. And so it's, it's you just taking full 100% ownership of here's what I'm going to do next. And I'm going to live and die by those consequences. Gotcha. Knowing your siblings, what would, what would they, it sounds like y'all have a pretty tight family. Is that right? Yeah. Very tight. Um, so what would they had, he had an accident a couple, couple of years ago and, uh, we had, uh, uh, just me and my siblings talking and, and, uh, this, this thing did come up in the moment. Yeah. Of like, we all, all four of us had our suspicions and so, uh, but we, we figured it was in the moment we were focusing on my dad then and not now wasn't the time to bring this up. Well, and do, do what's right for you and your family. And here's what I mean by that. Obviously you got to talk to your wife. That's that's like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let somebody's lack of integrity foster, foster a space in my house between me and my wife. Um, there's enough things trying to pull us apart every second of every day anyway, and maybe you sit down with your mom and you look. let her let her know you got 48 hours to tell dad or i i want you to know that i know i saw everything i've had suspicions for years um this are like your other kids have had suspicions for years i'm gonna rally everybody together tomorrow and we're gonna figure out if we want to be a part of this 45 year celebration if we want to go on this thing you don't get a vote in that mom but i want you to know that we're all going to circle up and maybe you bring the kids in too i mean the kids they're not kids they're all adults you bring your siblings in too the thing the thing i'm i'm thinking here is is it a heartbreak on top of a heartbreak for your dad to be the last to know yeah or does he have a right to know and again man if you and your wife have suspicions if you and your siblings have suspicions if you and your siblings have suspicions if you and your siblings have suspicions i mean your dad's in that house unless he's just a clueless guy he can he can space out sometimes i mean yeah i i mean dude i hate this for you man yeah and he's he's worked hard his entire life built a incredible business and they're very well off because of his hard work my mom's been home raised us and then just been home keeping things together around the house yeah and so there's a hard truth to that which is it took both of them to build this life right yep and the hard part is it can take two people to build a pretty extraordinary life i'm going to be the anchor point at home so you can go to out and go hunting for big game and bring it home to the house and i'll i'll be here right they serve as an anchor point to each other two people can build something and they can build something and they can build something and they can build something and one person can burn it to the ground yeah that stinks do i um talk with my mom and all that and then just completely step away or just so that i'm not in the center of it since it's not my marriage or yeah afterwards i think you let them both know i'm not going to get in between you two and either one of y'all can stay at my house or maybe you can look at your mom and say dad can come over and stay here if he wants to or if you need a place to stay if he throws you out you're welcome to stay here i think it's letting your parents know y'all are both my mom and dad and i'm going to treat both of you with is with honor and respect but i'm not i'm not going to be your marriage therapist you're not going to call me and talk bad about each other that's not the role i'm going to play here and that's going to take an incredible amount of discipline yep and expect this to not go well okay expect her to say who do you think you are i'm your mom you're you're destroying our family you're going to ruin everything expect all of the weight of this to be put on you it may not happen but just expect it or let me say it this way expect to not feel good even after having right conversations nobody's going to win here nope and so nobody's going to feel great after the initial conversation you might feel some relief but you're going to feel guilt and whatever your mom decides to throw at you you you know her well what is she going to say like just just put yourself in her shoes is she going to bury her face in her hands and say oh my gosh i can't believe you saw that i'm so sorry it's been going on for years or is she going to attack you like who is she you want to attack nope she won't attack okay um i think she'll just be ashamed and uh show a lot of remorse and stuff i mean i guess one of the biggest things that's been burning a hole in my mind is like what's what's the plan that's what i want to ask her is what's the plan i want you and your wife to co-create the plan for y'all you don't get a vote in your mom's plan you get a vote in what you do now next and so your dad may choose to say like dude i'm 45 years in i'm not leaving i'm not going anywhere it is what it is he may say this stops and whatever i need some time to separate he might he's well off he may say i'm getting a boat and i'm moving to alaska dude i'm gonna fish the rest of my days like who knows right at what point you had mentioned earlier about bringing like if my dad needed to come over and stay over at our house at what point is that short-term versus long-term and letting that get too far into my own marriage you and your wife come up with the boundaries before you talk to your mom and so if he if you and your wife agree he can stay here for a week then when he comes then it's again all of this is asking you to you you have now become the adult in the room dad you can stay here for one week me and wife and our kids like you can stay for one week i'll help you find a place i'll help you get your feet underneath you i know this just knocked the wind out of you you got one week here you got two weeks here or dad we're just not in a place where you can come move in right now we don't even have an extra bedroom but we can do x y and z i'll go with you to help you find an apartment or mom's got to go but make have those boundaries firmly set otherwise you're going to find yourself agreeing to something in the heat of an emotional exchange that then you're gonna have to go back and explain to your wife and then y'all are going to have a rift in y'all's house and that's what i mean by starting this whole thing by looking at your wife and saying this is going to impact me personally it's going to impact you personally they're they're your next door neighbors right yeah if you if you weren't even related to them at all but there was just this sweet couple that lived next door to you and this happened it would impact your your it would impact you and your wife right so it's it's staying committed we're not going to make any decisions any anything you know what now that i'm talking out loud um i'll leave you with one piece of wisdom that one of my most important mentors of my life jean-noel thompson he taught me this at a young age as a leader is to never make emotional relationship decisions whether with an employee or the friend in the moment so he always had a 24-hour waiting window if he was talking to you about letting you go if he was talking to you about a promotion you didn't get if he was talking to you about a heart like whatever it was he'd always say i'm gonna we'll circle back we'll put time on the counter tomorrow and we'll because he always wanted space between this room feels real heavy or you gave me a compelling emotional argument or whatever but i gotta have some space and i've used that through most of my career most of my life i just need some i need a little bit of space so i can exhale so make a commitment to you and your wife neither of us will agree to anything without talking to the other person and we'll make the call the following day yeah right so if your mom sobbing i screwed up i can't believe this i'm so embarrassed can i come stay with y'all you say i'm gonna need to talk to my wife about it yeah and we've agreed to make have make decisions together moving forward because it's going to be a mess and that just gives you some space but i think i think that that just setting that up you and your wife set up whatever boundaries you want to set up and how we're going to approach this thing kind of a tiny little framework this which sounds such a so nerdy but um what most people will do is they'll get pissed off they'll go next door or they'll be heartbroken or whatever they'll have some big emotional state they'll go sit down the other person will have an emotional response either sobbing i've screwed up or they'll attack or whatever and they'll end up agreeing to yeah you can come live with us for a while and that while turns into one month two months and then the other parent is like i can't believe you not doing any of that i am in control of what happens next me and my wife together are gonna make decisions so man i hate that somebody pulled a pin on what looks like a pretty amazing thing from the outside and again who knows what's been going on inside that house for years um i hate it for everybody hate for your dad hate it for you hate for your mom if your wife hate it for everybody just continually ask yourself who am i gonna be what kind of man do i want to be what kind of husband do i want to be what kind of child kid do i want to be next thanks for the call brother we come back a man asks how to navigate being a stepdad when he feels he has no voice in disciplining his stepson we'll be right back as you know i'm a big believer in the relationships that can be established in therapy it's a powerful way to dig into patterns personal challenges old wounds and to practice new ways of relating to others and living life in the presence of a trained licensed professional but sometimes challenges take more than a traditional 50-minute session sometimes pausing the grind of everyday life and digging into a multi-day intensive experience with your spouse or your kids or even yourself can transform everything in your home in your marriage and in your life and that's why i want to tell you about capstone wellness and their vine and root program capstone's vine and root program is a deeper level of care it's three to five days a week and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of therapy intensives for couples families and individuals who need more than once a week sessions to radically change their life. Whether it's trauma, addiction, marriage challenges, burnout, or just about any challenge you're experiencing, the therapists at Vine and Root can help you get to the root of what's going on in your life and in your body and give you tools and a plan to change your life outside of therapy. They are a Christian organization, but they help people of all faiths, all backgrounds, and all experiences. They don't push anything on anybody and they follow a strict code of ethics. Vine and Root is a real investment of your time, of your energy, and of your money. But if you're serious about getting well, sometimes serious change requires serious commitment. Go to capstonewellness.com slash Deloney and click on Vine and Root to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com slash Deloney. All right, Colorado Springs, Colorado. Let's talk to Andrew. What's up, Andrew? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good, brother. How are you, man? I'm actually great, even though I'm calling them to the show. What's going on, dude? Hey, okay. So, quick question was, you know, how do I bring up, I guess, not necessarily discipline, but how do I bring up the topic to his mom when I see my stepson, like, break a rule that we've kind of had, or if I feel like he's pulling. The wool over his mom's eyes. So, long story short, first off, some boundaries that we had before we got married was that I'm not really stepping into, like, a parent role. Maybe a stepdad, but I'm not a parent. I can be a role model, but as far as the disciplining and stuff, like, that's what mom's going to handle. The dad is involved, and they have 50-50, so. Yeah, but hold on. Hold on, hold on. That's a really, that's a tough place for everybody, especially that kid. What was the reasoning behind this? Well, so he's 12. Yeah. I mean, and we've been together for about two years now. So, like I said, dad's involved. It doesn't matter. He lives in your home half the time. Let me say it this way. Like, I'm in charge of setting the values and the boundaries for my kid, okay? Right. But my son works a job with multiple different adults. He's got a cross-country and track coach, multiple coaches. He's got multiple teachers. He's got a minister. He's got other men that I fully respect. So, there's a lot of other men in his life. Thank God. Participating in disciplining him. Sure. Nobody will hit my kid, or I'll go to jail, right? Right. But when it comes to, yeah, what this 12-year-old is learning is that there are certain adults that can't touch me. Not physically, but they can't do anything. Right, right, right. And that's an unsafe skill set for a 12-year-old to wield. On top of his life blowing up because his parents got divorced. Okay. Like, you just being, not impotent sexually, but you just being this impotent, like, this guy just over in the corner, like, with a disrespectful 12-year-old, or a jerk, or you're watching him lie to his mom, or whatever. Yeah, dude, that's a dangerous dynamic for that household. Yeah, I mean, I guess I do want to preface, like, he is a good kid. Oh, yeah, but. It's huge. It's huge. It's smaller than far in between. Yeah, most kids, almost every kid is a good kid. Not all of them, but almost every kid's a good kid. Yeah. But he's still 12. And a 12-year-old, developmentally, is going to push on every boundary humanly possible. That's what they're supposed to do. Especially as pre-teen, and as we start to dive into the pre-teen and teenage years. Bro, buckle up, dude. And here's the thing. If he learns he's untouchable in certain. Certain areas, and I can manipulate this relationship, and this person I don't have to listen to, and this adult I don't have to. Man, that's a wild ride he's about to get on. He's already. Well, let me preface. I mean, because she doesn't let him get by with everything. She is very good at parenting. She is very good at being a mom, especially in this tough situation. And her philosophy, and I get it, too, is. She's not raising a son for compliance, right? Because I've had that baggage from being raised from compliance. You do what I say when I tell you, and that's going to be it. But at the same time, she's like, I want to raise a good human being. I'm totally on board with that. I am, too. But part of raising a good human being is giving them very firm, anchored boundaries, and holding them accountable. You can. Instagram it and call it compliance, but there are certain things when I tell my kids to do them, they need to do them. That's part of. You know why? Because I live in a functioning world. I live in reality. There are certain things my boss tells me I need to do, and I get to choose whether I stay employed or not. Now, that can be abusive. I mean, it can get abusive, but, dude, that's not a bad thing. Okay. So what's it look like? Because, I mean, when a kid. When a kid, right? And how do you extend grace, then? Where is that kind of, like, balance? Because I don't want to. I'm not asking, like, you know, he does something wrong, and then that's it. Like, yank it out. But, like, I mean, what. Because we're huge on grace. Like, we want to. What's that look like, then? I mean, I don't want to be fearful. Like how I was. Like, he can. Him and his mom, like, they can. They have really good talks. Talks that I wish I would have been able to have with my parents or with my mom. But because I felt like I had to be perfect, I didn't have those conversations. Those conversations provide context. Relationship and depth provide context for why I'm asking you to do what I'm asking you to do, and I'm not asking you to understand it because you're freaking 12. I am asking you to understand your role in this house. One of the. A few frameworks I have. One is most childhood challenges are skill set issues. Meaning, a kid who explodes, a kid who gets mad, a kid who just starts sobbing. It's often in the. Like, their body is responding bigger than their capacity to hold it all. And so I'm going to honor that with. I'm going to teach you some skills, and I'm going to teach you some skills. Another philosophy that I learned from Becky Kennedy is every feeling is okay, but not every action's okay. So I can ask you to take the trash out because you're a functioning member of this house. Those conversations y'all have, the big, deep conversations, number one, the bedrock of those conversations are I will never stop loving you. There's not a thing you can do to keep me from loving you. Number two, you play an integral role in this house. And when you become a pillar of the house, there's a weight that gets put on your shoulders. And because you're 12, that weight is really, really light. But you play a role here. Not in my emotional stability. That's my job as an adult. Right. But you contribute to the trash. And so the trash needs to go out. The same as we all contribute to using the lights. And you as the adult are like, I'll pay that bill. Okay. But we're going to. I'm going to slowly teach them. And when they don't do it, there has to be consequences for the choices they've made. And so here's how that's always gone in my house. Okay. I will never say to my kid, you said this thing, get out of my presence, get out of my face. Right. Because what I'm teaching them is there is a line you can cross when I am going to break relationship with you. Never going to do that. But I have often said, by you talking to your mom that way, you chose to leave for 30 minutes. And that breaks my heart. Sure. I get that. Because I want you in here. The house needs you here. Our whole house feels better when you're here. And because you made X, Y, or Z, like X, Y, or Z, like choice, you chose to step away from this relationship. Okay. Yeah. And so I want them to own, I chose not to do this. So I. I chose not to go play with my friends. I chose. They're choosing these decisions. Okay. Okay. Well, then the next part would be, because I let in with that going into our marriage, right? That I agreed that I'm not a parent at that. So then what does this conversation with my wife look like? We have a very safe space, right? We talk about literally everything. It's just. conversations about the stepson can be opinionated. point um so what does how does this conversation what's this conversation look like i think you'll need to back up and redefine what this word parent means okay because it sounds like the way y'all are described using the word parent in your home i would use the words functioning adult okay i want any adult on the planet to respectfully and treating them with dignity make sure my kids are a being safe and b being good citizens so what y'all are seeing in your house as i agreed to not parent i i don't have a firm definition of what that means but the way you've described it to me is i won't have anything to do with setting boundaries in this house i won't have anything to do with holding anybody accountable i'll just back up here you and i'm just gonna be with you lady and you deal with this thing and i'm telling you that's bad for him that's bad for you that's bad for your marriage yeah yeah because and that's i guess maybe that's why i wrestle with it because i mean we do like um we do things she works for the city and um there's evenings where she has to be gone for the evening so him and i will go to go out to and we'll go to a store and just hang out and walk around and do stuff that he wants to do and we enjoy the heck of it i'm very lucky uh to get along with him um i know that much and um like we do work on projects together so this last weekend we put a tonneau cover on and i kind of let him lean that's amazing that's awesome that project so i guess for some reason and maybe it's your your you've had a pretty you had a rough go of it as a kid which i mean i'm going to totally honor that and i get that deeply but what you're talking about aren't two separate things you're talking about time commitment and relationship and safety and trust i'm going to be right here while we put on this cover on the back of the truck and i'm going to let you lead and like that is is not in opposition to uh here's the thing i'm going to be right here while we put on this cover on the back of the that we ask you to do as a member of this house here is our boundaries around phones and if you choose to break the boundaries then you're choosing the consequence that we've already established for you those are all that's all of that is a is a 360 degree picture of a relationship like when i sit down with couples like the the four needs of a marriage inside of this little marriage is you have to see each other you have to know each other you have to celebrate the heck out of each other and all three of those buy you much needed permission to challenge each other and it sounds like what your wife wants is you to be this big brother yeah well not even that because big brothers my sister i have an older sister she has held me accountable rightfully so or my whole life because she can see things from a wisdom perspective because she's down the road from me that i don't have right right right so i think it's redefining or not redefining but you and your wife getting on the same picture what's our picture of parenthood and what are our goals for our house and what does that look like when our 12 year old does very 12 year old things and sees if that's going to hold or not it's just a the difference is that i can call call it out i'm sorry i guess i'm wrestling back to that same deal of because i don't want to i guess i don't want to say it like give me a give me an example i feel like we're talking hypotheticals give me an example yeah yeah um and that's actually kind of what led to this call so long story short um he can have one female husband and have a fancy drink a day yeah be that a soda or whatever and um he chose to have his drink with breakfast earlier in the day we went to the swimming pool uh later on and he brought a friend his friend bought him an icy slushing again he's 12 in my opinion he knows what's going on and he comes back and his mom and i are laying by the pool and he's drinking it right in front of us i'm like okay and you know don't react but you know i'm thinking in my head okay he broke a rule like there'll be a consequence and we can talk about it later on um the safety break ends and they go back to the pool and i asked her i was like hey so like what's the what's the consequence here and uh she goes well i'll talk to him about it said okay i said that's sure but i mean like does he not get one for the next day because he chose to have one or two today um or what does that look like and she goes well i'm just going to talk with him about it and um you know let let the holy spirit impress on his heart you know for change and um i kind of didn't really say what compute with me yeah uh she said that um you know just let the holy spirit press upon him okay so can we get to what i think might be the real issue here okay all the way at the end of this call sure you don't respect how your wife is parenting this young boy and you got to take full ownership of that and you need to have that conversation and that will be a hard very difficult conversation to have but she is a good mom and i do believe that what you're describing to me is not good and there's a difference between a loving person and a caring person and i'm going to throw out four three or four different two or three different things a caring person who is feel so guilty about the divorce that they kind of let their kid get away with everything or a really caring loving mom who has conversations with her son that you and i wished our parents would have had with us and and and i'm going to throw out four three or four different two or three different two or three different things and i'm going to throw out four three or four different two or three different things doesn't want to be the stern parent because dad lets him do whatever he wants and so we're just going to kind of talk about it and move on you know what i'm saying and i can keep going i can just keep making up stories yeah but yeah having thoughtful deep conversations is great but the calculus your child is already running or your step kid is already running is i can have a second sugary drink today and all of a sudden i'm like oh my god i'm going to have a second sugary drink today all it's going to cost me is a conversation with my mom but if you're losing respect for your spouse have that conversation or if you have concerns have that conversation yeah i like that better concerns well but don't water it down because you're scared to have be honest i mean i respect the hell out of her in a lot of a lot of ways great so have the bigger conversation with your with your wife because that to me is where it's stemming is you're watching her and seeing it play out and be honest if it's happening in other areas it's not related to parenting but being a step parent's always messy but the answer's never i'm just going to be an adult i'm just i'm just the play kid i'm the play guy i'm the fun older brother who never says anything about accountability or man that puts you in a really awkward position kids is a nightmare in and of itself it takes a lot of emotional regulation and a lot of direct conversations with parents and yeah it's just going to be you y'all going to be navigating this thing together for a while thanks for the call brother we'll be right back montana knife company has launched their very first folding knife the montana i didn't think it would be as amazing as it is i was wrong this knife is incredible i've been telling you about montana knife company's fixed blades for hunting and cooking and for working outside and now they took that same 30 years of craftsmanship and precision and perfection and they brought it to a folding knife and they nailed it this is the ultimate everyday carry blade and here's what i really love about montana knife company knives these are working knives made by people who actually use them and they're made right here in 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That's mkc.com. All right, Kelly, what you got going on? All right. So I got some information from our development team that has put together Together app. And I want to give you a couple stats and then ask your opinion. Okay. All right. So this is from the focus area assessment that people do when they start the app. Yes. Talking about when couples connect in the evening, come home after, you know, working all day, that kind of thing. 31% say we're physically near each other, but not really connecting. 27% say we're both on separate screens or we keep to ourselves. Only 7% of couples that filled it out say that they're genuinely connecting. How does the app help with that? Man, that's a great question. Those stats break my heart. That's tough. We don't know what to do next, right? We're, we have so much happening all at the same time. What the app does for you is it gives you, um, what's a thing I can do next to reconnect. And that sounds silly, right? It's like saying like, hey, how do I get abs? And someone will be like, diet and exercise. And then they walk away. Like, it sounds simple, but like, what do I do right now? And the app is constantly pulling you back with teaching stuff. So we've added pretty amazing teaching stuff. We've added a lot of teaching stuff. And we've added, um, those guys, those developers are just, they're unbelievable, man. I thought I was smart. These, these, I call them kids. They're all grownups and married with their own kids, but they're unbelievable. But they develop, like you said, focus tracks. So if you're struggling with communication or you're struggling with exhaustion, like how do I show up? And this is the world I'm in right now. But what the app does is it gives you a thing to go do next. And I think that's what's relationship dating advice, which is it's all talking in theory. And what do you think? What do you think? And then you stop the podcast, you stop the, and you're like, okay, what do I go do now? And then that goes bing or it buzzes and it says, go do this for your spouse right now, or go do this with your spouse right now. And it gives you action steps back to each other. So that's what it does. And that's what I think makes it, I don't know of any other thing on the market that does what this does. And I think that's why the reviews are so high. And that's why people just keep eating it up, man. It's, it's, I'm really proud of it. It's pretty cool, but that's what it does. If you're feeling disconnected and you're just sitting there like, okay, as I had one buddy that was like, all right, dude, so I put all our phones down. We put the screens away and now we're all just staring at each other. And I was like, well, why don't you talk? And he's like, okay, we'll just start talking. And I was like, oh, you don't know what to do. And so this helps in that moment. So it's pretty special. Good job. Well done. We can end the show now. Let's just keep sitting here staring at each other. Staring contest go. I wouldn't do a staring contest. I think my face would melt. Love you guys. Bye.