Caller: “I’m Attracted to My Husband’s Best Friend”

(soft music) - Brought to you by my friends at Churchill Mortgage. If you're looking to buy or refinance, check them out. I've used Churchill and they are great. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com. - There's this new couple that started pending our church. And I don't know why, for whatever reason, the husband just caught my attention. So because of it, I've been keeping my distance away from him. - What's happening next in your mind? Like what steps are you taking after those feelings? - Well, this is where it gets really tricky. (upbeat music) - What up? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloni Show talking about your marriage, your relationships, whoever you're dating, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life, your mental and emotional health, all of it. Real people with real problems. I'd love to have you on the show. Click the link in the show notes and we will get you on. Before we take our first call, Alex, what happened, dude? I've heard of a lot of gastrointestinal, get off one of the desk. (laughs) He's hiding under the desk. We can still smell you, dude. Look, I know, I've made a career talking about gastrointestinal issues. I've never heard of somebody being allergic in their guts to onions. Nothing. - Oh, I'll try, man. You had, let's just pay the picture. You had a full beard this morning, Kelly. Not uncommon. It all fell out. Just being in that room. I can feel the heat. - Okay, I'm gonna be fair to Alex and nothing has happened yet. - Are you kidding? - Nothing's happened yet. - My skin itches. - But Alex knows that onions are unknown. - Closing explosive. - And at lunch, he made a choice for all of us. (laughs) - The behavior's a language, just take note. - And his language. - He said some bad things. - Just send for a letter word. - I can watch your eyebrows falling out, Ben. Just every inhale you take. I've never heard of that before. - I'm not allergic, I'm just sensitive. - Is that your barber's jicker that goes on your Subaru? (laughs) - My key is soul. - On your key is soul. I'm not allergic, I'm just sensitive. (laughs) Oh my gosh, I feel bad for everybody in that booth. I'm protected in here. And I can still like, my skin. - If at any point the camera, like comes in here and it's just-- - Everybody's passed out. - We're gone, yeah, that's all right. - Alex with his carol, the crawler potion that you cast upon everybody in there. The only one who will still be standing. Thomas, Andrew, because he's from West Virginia and he grew up on mayonnaise and meth and he is good to go. - And the whole tall state stinks anyway. - He's sense of smell. - He's just like, you know what? It's all good. He's actually, that guy will still just be recording away. Well, you guys just drop like flies in there. Actually, if you drop like, never mind. I was going to Fresno, California and talk to Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca, what's up? - Hello, Dr. John. How are you doing today? - Well, you can just call me John. I'm doing great, how are you? - For the most part, life has been pretty good. - Very good, very good. So what's going on? - Yeah, so start off with my question, how do I stop feelings that I have towards someone who is not my husband? - Ooh, yeah, that's a lot. Tell me about it. - All right, so my husband, I've been married for six years. And ever since then, we've been attending this church. That's just been in our neighborhood. So probably all started last year when there's this new couple that started attending our church. - I mean, you know, you know the reason, is he a good-looking guy? - Actually, believe it or not, no. - Okay. - Like, what was it about him that caught your attention? Is he smart, is he kind, is like, what was it that you thought when he walked through the room? Hmm. - Yeah, so I think the biggest thing that attracted me to him was just his character. He has a lot of positive energy. - Yeah, and I just love how he conducts himself around other people and how he's nice in that matter. - You get the irony, right? Like, I'm married to somebody and I'm attracted to that guy's character. That's kind of awesome. - I know. - Okay, so you notice him, he seems like just a great guy. - Yeah, he is, for sure. - And then. - Yeah, so over the year, I've noticed I've developed these feelings for him. And I honestly hate how I am feeling towards somebody who is not my husband. I just feel absolutely embarrassed and ashamed by it. So because of it, I've been keeping my distance away from him just because I really want to protect my husband and my marriage. Well, this is where it gets really tricky because in the past two months, my husband has developed a very close friendship with this same guy. (laughs) And it's to the point where they're talking to each other every time we go to church on Sundays and Wednesday night. They're texting each other throughout the week and my husband has talked to me a couple weeks ago asking if we could start inviting this couple over to our house because my husband wants all of us just to be well acquainted with each other as couples. Anyway, so I just feel really stuck because you're even in my world where I am trying to avoid this individual, try and stop these feelings as much as possible just to protect my husband. But at the same time, I feel like I can't escape because my husband wants us to all be friends. - So dig into this with me a little bit, okay? So there's gonna be people for the rest of time that you're attracted to that are stunning aesthetically. They're just beautiful, right? Or super handsome or super attractive or whatever. Or and/or, right? These aren't mutually exclusive. There's gonna be people that you talk to and you just like, let me put it this way. You should have feelings arise when somebody is strong or they are of great character or they're a great singer or a thoughtful poet or they think through something in a powerful intellectual way. You should feel yourself gravitating towards those people and that has no impact unless you allow it to on your marriage, right? And so if somebody beautiful comes, walks by, it's not like I'm happily, I'm more than happily married. Like I'm right or die for almost a quarter century and they're still super attracted people, the attractive people in the world, right? That I feel good around or I feel that they're beautiful or there's guys with way bigger muscles are way nicer or way smarter than me that my wife would feel attracted to. Like that's part of life. The next layer though is it's the meditation on it. It's the fantasizing about it. It's the, I'm gonna take those feelings and I'm gonna insert myself into those feelings in some sort of created secret world that's just me in this imagined version of that person. So if you see somebody at church, at the grocery store, at work and you're like, man, that is an awesome guy and you have positive feelings towards them. Even attracted, like that to me doesn't, that's a human response. What's happening next in your mind, in your spirit, in your body? Are you imagining what would be like to be with that person? Are you fantasizing about that person? Like what steps are you taking after those feelings when you're just by yourself? - Right, yeah, definitely. No, and that's something I just really wanna be cautious about is just, yeah, what boundaries are in place, I guess. I guess I just, yeah, I just wanted to call this key if it was okay, you know? To, you know, feels, so if you-- - Is there a feeling towards that one? - Think of feelings as lights on a dashboard. What are those, not the problem itself, or not the issue itself, or not even the thing itself, but pointing towards that thing? If you looked at feelings like that, what would your feelings like the toward this person? What would they be telling you about you, about your marriage, about the guy you're married to, about just what you happen to think's attractive? - Yeah, I guess I'm just really attracted to the positive energy that I mentioned earlier. - Are you missing that positive energy somewhere else in your life? - For the most part, no, the only area I can see in my life where it might be missing is between my husband and I a little bit. - Tell me about that. 'Cause here's the thing, the reason it feels like you're calling is that it's not just a recognition of somebody's pretty awesome, or this guy's great and I feel good. his presence. That's a normal human reaction, right? It's when you take that and you imagine him without his wife and you without your husband and you again, you create a whole other world that begins to, that your husband's not allowed into, that his wife's not allowed into, that he doesn't even know as existing, is existing, right? And you meditate on that world. And that's when people get themselves in trouble because that world starts to creep into the real world. No, yeah, that definitely makes sense. But I feel like you just kind of paused on me, or you kind of, you came to a door and you're in your scared to open it. Well, yeah, I'm just kind of reflecting on my own marriage and kind of like what you mentioned before, what's missing, that positive energy that we were talking about. Yeah, and I mean, it's been like, honestly, for the most part, and I say this like 90% of our marriage is pretty great. I'm very thankful. A lot of affairs happen in good marriages. Yeah, that's true. Because people are seeking a sense of aliveness. Right. They have a good co-manager, they have a good friend, they have a good co-parent, they have a good co-erner, and they're dead in their own skin. Right. Yeah. No, that's the thing. It's definitely the past couple of months have been pretty hard on our marriage. I know. Tell me about it. Yeah, so I am three months postpartum with our first son. Okay. On top of that, my husband is starting a auto repair business on top of working for another repair shop just in our city. Yeah, I just feel like, you know, like obviously we have a good time, but there's definitely a lot of stressful times. And I know usually whenever my husband gets home, you know, once he's done work, he's just immediately going and focusing on his business. What does that mean? Does he have another car in the driveway that he's working on, or does he go in and play on the computer for a while? No, right now it's more just researching on the computer how he can get his business up and running. I'll tell you right now. I'll tell you right now how he can get his business up and running. He can start having people drop their cars off in your driveway. Yeah, no, and that's the thing. Like he is. Like it's just maybe a couple cars throughout the couple weeks or so. And he's trying to find a way to how to build his business up even more so. I'll tell you how you build your business up. You keep repairing cars until they demand for your abilities and what you bring to your customers, exceed your ability to do them. And then you hire somebody else. Right. Okay. So here's what I'm getting at. If you are sitting at home with a newborn in whatever stage of post-pregnancy world you're experiencing, whether it's post-partum, whether it is exhaustion, it could be all of it, right. And then he gets home. It may be a season when this is not the best moment to start a new business because I want you home. I want you next to me in this season. Right. And it's six months. Or the way you start a business is you just start doing the job. You don't spend 500 years googling stuff because what you're doing then is you're playing on the computer and you're avoiding us. And that's you saying, I'm lonely and I miss you. And also I've been the husband who is trying my best and I knew after a few months of my son first coming home, all I knew is that I messed everything up. And I thought the only value I can add to this house is to go make more money. And it's very common dynamic that one person feels like they're in a guilt factory. I'm not doing enough. I'm not up bright enough. I'm not energetic enough. I'm not my old self. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. And then the other person feels like they're in a failure factory. I can't win here. And so it's about saying, hey, the marriage we had before we had a baby totally over. It doesn't exist anymore. Let's swipe the deck and say, what do we want this new marriage to look like and feel like? In a double winter, like we had a wild ice storm last year in the in the middle of the winter. It was winter. It was already cold. And then we got blasted with an ice storm on top of it. That's you guys being in winter. Hey, it's just a rough season. We have a newborn here in either of us have ever done this before. We've never been married and had a newborn. And you're talking an ice storm on top of it. Like, let's start a business too. Because that would be a, like on top of a full-time job, that would be winter. If you all had two kids and there were seven and 10, right? That would be a chaotic season. It's getting underneath those things and saying, hey, we get to choose what our marriage feels like. Are you in to rebuild this thing? However we want it. We're going to get a marriage one way or the other and that's one of us quits. Let's be intentional about building the one we want. So I guess my other question is despite all this stressful stuff that we're going to in life, can we even experience some of those positive feelings that I've been attracted to outside of our marriage? I mean, a million percent but I'll get to choose. And they're going to be different. There's always going to be the exciting and the new and the I wonder. And the this person has a totally different energy and vibe that makes me feel good. That's, that's just human nature. That's life. And that's the beauty of life. Everyone's world is better when a fireman walks in, right? Like somebody who's what you like, you go, ah, that guy can handle stuff, right? Like everyone should feel attracted to that. Everyone should feel attractive when a beautiful or confident or hilarious or smart or like woman walks in a room. Like you should, it lifts the whole room up. It's awesome. It's when you take that and say, hey, that's mine. And I'm going to wall off my, my spouse, my right or die. I'm going to cut them off of this trip and I'm going to create a secret world with myself and my fantasized version of this other person and I'm going to meditate on it. I'm going to, I'm going to fantasize about it. I'm going to masturbate to it. I'm going to, it's going to become the thing I think about when my eyes are closed. And that's where people get themselves in trouble. Because here's the, the other frustrating part for me is as, as, as an observer of these relationships is your spouse feels that disconnection. They just don't know what it is. And if a spouse is caring, their impulse is going to be, oh, it must be me. They're going to try to fix themselves in the only ways they know how without a roadmap, without a discussion, without a, hey, here's what I would like in this new season. And it, it's its own special brand of cruelty. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I definitely get what you're saying. So the, the easy, I mean, the easy thing here is just to say, I don't like that guy. I don't want to be around that guy. Or no, thank you. Or hey, you want to have so and so over tonight? No, I mean, you could play the avoidance game. And I think there's some wisdom to that. If you're finding yourself sexually attracted to him, you're, you're texting him, you want to blow his marriage up to like, yeah, there's a cut everything off. If you're not there yet, if there's just a really great new family at your local church and you like this guy's energy, or you think this guy's extra funny, or you think this guy's extra smart, that's great, grand and wonderful. But the real challenge here is like, am I going to take that and fantasize about it and create a world where it's just us two together? Or can I look at that set of feelings and say, man, me and my husband, we have a whole new marriage now. We need to be honest about what's going to inject life into it. And let's give each other some clear road nabs about what we want in this new cold season that we're because spring's common, summer's common, right? You're not going to be sleepless forever. You're not going to be exhausted forever. Is what I'm saying making sense? No, it definitely is making sense. I can't tell by your silence if you've crossed lines and you don't want to say it publicly or if you're nervous or if you're exhaling because like, okay, I'm not in dangerous territory. Yeah, tell me where you are. I just feel kind of relieved just knowing that maybe what I'm experiencing is somewhat normal. Yeah, because I've been carrying it. Well, I mean, I've never shared any of this, not even with my husband for like the past year. And it's just been this thing that's just been eating at me just why am I attracted to this? Why am I? And, you know, looking at comparing that to my own marriage and just wondering like, why Why is my marriage so hard? And while looks like they have it easy and you've got this great energy and why don't I have that for my husband. So just here, you kind of affirm it's okay and that there's rough points in our life. Yeah, it's just kind of what I need to hear. But I don't, I want to norm it for you, right, which is just a nerd way of saying you're not crazy. Okay. This is life. But where I want to, I don't want to, I can't push you, right, because we're just talking on the phone. But like, where I want to strongly encourage you go, is that you sit down with your husband. And if it's a confrontation, it's a confrontation. If it's a, um, if he's a loving connected guy, just doing the best he can with what he knows, then it will be a, not an easy conversation, but a connecting conversation. We're bringing out closer together. But one of you has to say, Hey, the marriage we had doesn't exist, what, what do we want to build now? And here's what I'm feeling. Not, you don't do this and you don't have positive vibes or whatever you think this other person's bring. But you being able to say, I have found myself feeling like this. And here's what I would love. I would love for you to pause this new business. You're planning with on the computer. Don't say like that. That's just me being dismissive. But I want us to take a dance class. I want us to, I want you to be home at night for the next few months. This, the weight of all of this is, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. And if you have been finding yourself like, I say dangerously attracted, but I'm going to make some bad choices here. I'm finding this man consuming a lot of my mind, a lot of my thought, a lot of like my, my fantasy life. Then yeah, we need to draw a thick boundary line, cut it off. But if you just feel good around somebody, man, you feel good around somebody. Well, thanks for the call. We're back at, yeah, you're not crazy. But I do think this is a signal for you and your husband to sit down and dream and imagine together, what's tomorrow look like? What's the next year look like? What do we want to do for each other? What do you want? What do I want? And reclaim ownership over your marriage. It doesn't have to just drift with intentionality and constantly be pointing those boat, that boat back to North. Thanks for the call. We come back. A married couple asks how to rebuild their relationship after he broke their trust. We'll be right back. All right. If you come over to my house and just hang out for a little while or you stay stay the whole week, you're going to find out that when I talk about Cozierth and how much Cozierth gear I've got, I'm telling 100% truth. I got Cozierth, Tows, amazing Tows. I got Cozierth comforters and blankets. I got Cozierth socks and man, Cozierth sheets on all the beds in the house. These sheets are made from visco's from bamboo. 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Whether the answer is a few lifestyle changes or a more comprehensive treatment plan, everything can be prescribed and managed through joy and bloke's. Joy and bloke's is for women and men who want to be proactive with their health. Go to joy and bloke's.com/jolony and get 50% off all labs and 20% off all of their products. That's J-O-I and B-L-O-K-E-S. joy and bloke's.com/jolony. All right, I've got a couple on the line. We're going to go to Miami, Florida and I'm going to bring on a lane first. Hey, Elaine. Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm doing great. All right, let me bring in Nate. Nate, Doug. What's up, Nate? What's going on, Dr. John? How are you doing? I'm doing great. Okay, so I got Nate in the lane from Miami, Florida. Are y'all together in the same house right now? Are y'all in different places? We're in different places, but we're always together. There we go. Okay, so who wrote in? I did. Okay, Elaine. I'll let you go first. So, batter up. So, what's going on? Okay, so my question is how do I reveal trust and move forward in my marriage even after he's proven himself trustworthy years later? Okay, so tell me about it. Yeah, it's a great question. Tell me about it. So, I met my husband when I was 15 and he was 16. We were high school sweethearts. We dated through high school in college. After graduating, we had a big break up. We broke up for about nine years. He had a relationship with another young lady and had a son. I got married in divorce. I have two children. We got married about two years after my divorce and the first three months of my marriage, we didn't live together. Once we did live together, I found out some things that were taking place at the earlier part of my marriage that I wasn't aware of, particularly incident with the mother of his child and which she sent an email kind of detailing a night they sprinted together. When I asked him about it, at first, he told me nothing happened. It was an emotional evening. He consulted. They went in separate ways. It didn't sit with me. So, I asked again, then the story began to grow one night, time into two nights. One of these nights, they had sexual encounter, but it was all sex. So, I was devastated, shattered. So, even though I have, he's put in the work. I give him credit. He does everything that I ask him to do, but I am still, I'm stuck. I feel like my wounds are spinning and I don't want to live just worried all the time that this is going to be the day that he does something and this is going to be the time that he's not telling me the truth. I'm kind of looking for tools that kind of move forward. You got it. You articulated that really great. How long ago did you all get married? It'll be, we got married, be December 22. 22. Okay. So, we're talking four years ago. Yes, sir. Three and a half years ago. Okay. So, Nate, what do you say, ma'am? Okay. So, yeah, in reality, Dr. John, my wife is not lying or making this happen. In essence, I had to talk to her about it. I looked a little apprehend. I was worried about her reaction. I was worried about how she would take things and then, you know, I let it all go and I gave her the information, but what she read resonates in her mind more than what I'm telling her. And I can completely understand that because, you know, the story I gave was not all of the details at first. Sure. And to kind of reiterate what's going on, she has, you know, I've given her everything that she's asked for. She got access to my phone. You know, she knows the password to the computer. She can get on the computer and log into my Facebook because I don't hide anything. Sure. But my biggest side effect, I guess, of this is that, you know, when I get going to detail, just, it's very similar to what she told you, but like one night is really two nights, right? And I did not, you know, I didn't rinse any of the story, but I, at the time, I was really, I was really going through something, Dr. John, I'm going to be honest about it. I was really dealing with the separation anxiety from my son who was there. But at the same time, I wanted to be, I wanted to be faithful to my wife. I wanted to start something. And I really didn't have the mental tools or the emotional tools to know how to do that. And then at that time, you know, trying to, and you've talked to many people. And we listened to the show quite often. You know, being a black man separated from my son is a huge deal to me. So I wanted to make sure that I let her down as easy as possible. Now, is any of the oral sex or any of that stuff right? No, completely wrong. I was wrong for even thinking that she can get into that. But at that time, you know, I was really connected to my family, my home family, my mother, my father, my grandmother. And I completely blew off all of her advances because I was taking care of my family. I was taking care of my grandmother, who is not passed away from, you know, from her age and conditions and whatnot. And, you know, I told my wife a hundred times, baby, I was very blessed to go home. And my grandmother was not up burning down the house because she was literally cooking at, you know, 1231. Sure, sure, sure. So anyway, it's been deep like that. So, and again, man, you gave a good narrative there. And I appreciate that. Here's what I want, part of moving forward for everybody is going to be like, I can feel it on you, Nate. You want to be a good man, correct? That's right. Okay. Okay. And you want to be a good dad. I want to be the best that I can be sure. And you want to be a good husband to a lane. That's what you want. Okay. So I hear that in the way you told that story. I hear that. And you also want to be a good man with your responsibilities of your birth family, right? Grandma, mom, dad, all that, right? Right. Okay. What I want you to do here is hear me say, I believe you a hundred percent. And there's all kinds of context and sideways stuff and things are going to go, are going to happen in our lives. But I want you to, like, as you're sitting wherever you're sitting, if you're in your car, if you're in your office, wherever you are, I want you to take a big deep breath and hold it for three, two, one, and let it out. I want you to drop your shoulders. And I want you to fully own, I messed up. Yeah, I messed up. Okay. Just just just just right that just appeared into that sentence. And here's why and we'll all get into a lane. But here's what I want you. This is you giving her a gift and you giving yourself a gift. Okay. Because you taking full ownership. I screwed up. I messed up. I put myself in a position that wasn't good. And there's a million things going on. But I did that thing. I made, at the end of the day, I made a choice. I made a few choices in a row that led to me becoming a guy that I never thought I would be, right? If you continue to retail that story with, yeah, but this and I had grandmother and I had kid, I had whatever. A lane is always going to be waiting for that next context where this might happen again. And her, she will be scanning the environment 24/7 365 for this dresser and that's dresser and what about this dresser and about this dresser? Because those things in the way you told that story first, those things were part of the reason why I messed up. I made a choice and I messed up. I'm going to take full ownership of that. That's going to allow there to be a period of that sentence. You give it I'm saying. Yeah, and I want to add to it the idea is that that's what stopped me from everything is her and my family. And I thought about how bad it would be if, you know, all of it was, you know, done and blew up the throw, right? And so that's what stopped me from doing everything. But I still, yeah, 100%. I was wrong, though. There you go. And I applaud you for that. It's hard. It's hard for anybody just to say, yeah, I screwed that up. Period. Elaine, what happened in your first marriage? Oh gosh, I was married to someone who was verbally abusive. Refused to take deals, refused to no emotional support, just everything with my responsibility. We were without lights. I couldn't get food on the table for my son. So I spent nine years in, I guess, survivor mode trying to figure things out until I finally walked away from that situation. Okay. Did he cheat on you? No, he didn't. He didn't even get off the couch to pay bills much less. Go find somebody else. Okay. Tell me about the home you grew up in. I was a baby girl with three daughters. My father's incarcerated for murder. He's been in prison all of my life. So I never had a father. I had a stepfather from about four to 15 and he left my mom for another woman. So we ended up moving everything. A lot of a lot of different things. My mom died about four years ago. Same year I got married to Nathaniel. Okay. The ones who get my mom died. So a lot of different stresses here and there. So if they're still clear pathways back to each other. This is going to sound like a crazy word, but you're going to have to practice. Feeling nervous, practice feeling scared. Practice your body going. I told you. And I've seen this done where people will put their fist in their chest and they'll say. Thank you for trying to take care of me. He's coming home. He's a good man. I've seen people when they start to get that feeling. They just shoot a quick text and just say. I love you with three exclamation points. And he knows her heart rate is beating again and he's going to send you a picture of his goofy smile and face back. Definitely goofy. You get what I'm saying to Lane? Instead of instead of when your body tries to send you think think about train tracks in front of you when your body tries to send you down the track that is. But first get out now because this guy's going to hurt you. If you take that avoidance route. You end up a shell of yourself inside your own skin and you know the feeling I'm talking about right. Where you're in your own home with surrounded by kids surrounded by a guy who likes you and loves you, but you feel like you're. You feel like you're not even there. You know the feeling I'm talking about? Yes sir. What are you feeling that and acknowledging that and saying oh no no thank you for trying to take care of me. But I'm driving and I wasn't safe then but I'm safe now. And what we're going to do is we're going to practice not getting in that other train and we're going to take the new train tracks. And here's my honest I'm going to be as honest as I can. This will require you to go all in and risk Nate breaking your heart again. That's the only way. I know I know but I'm not going to do it. Nate will all Kelly will find you and bro. I can be scary but Kelly's diabolical. She listens to all those murder podcasts man. And here's what I want to build into y'all. Do y'all have iPhones? Yeah I got it. I got it. Nate. That's all the things I wanted to do that is all. All right well I almost send it to Elaine. I'm going to send you the together app. Okay. Here's what this happened. It only will work on your iPhone. We're working on the Android stuff. But here's the deal. I want y'all to do it together. I'm going to send it to you for free for a year. Okay. Oh wow thank you so much. Here's what it will do for you. It will give you a touch point every day where y'all look at each other. It will get it will send you a task to do. One thing that will bring you closer together. And here's the deal. I want you to make a regular practice in the morning before y'all leave for work. Of looking each other in the eye. One of you put your hands on each other's cheek. One of you put your hand on behind the other person's neck. One of your whole hands hug whatever whatever makes your shoulders drop. And I want you to ask the question hey how can I love you today? One thing. That will be me. I got you. Right. What's one thing. And I want the other person to say it back. And what we're going to do what Elaine when you feel yourself starting to take off. When you feel yourself being like oh yeah one time. You're going to pull that ace of spades out of your back pocket. That one that protects you. That one that is always remembering what he did that one time. I'm going to tear it up. I'm not going to play that ace of spades anymore. We're on the same team. It's not it's not you versus me anymore. It's you and me versus the whole world. Yes. But it's going to be tiny little practices where we're going to rebuild trust from the floor up. You all done the big trust off. Let me see your phone. Whatever. But I'm going to tell you right now and Nate tell me if I'm wrong. It gets exhausting living in a surveillance state, right? Oh yeah. It does. Okay. And so Elaine I want you to begin. It's been three and three years. Nate have you cheated on her in three years? Absolutely not. All right. I'm just putting out there. I just want to say it out in the world. So Elaine, I want you to begin practicing trust. And the trust I want you to practice is you feeling that awkwardness, that what's happening that I don't know what's going on and that exhaling like, oh no, no, I trust him, right? You're getting behind that feeling and that you putting yourself in the driver's seat of your own life. Here's a couple other homework assignments for you, Elaine, okay? Yes, sir. I want you to write a letter to your dad that you're never going to send. I don't want you to read it out loud to Nate. And here's what I want you to put in that letter. I want you to let him know how pissed off you are that he left you. Wow, that's that's so great that you say that about the job. So great. I want you to write him and here's the deal. You have two kids. You got three kids now. You would actually have, God almighty, lead with that next time. But here's the thing, here's the thing, you would, you would burn the world out for your kids. Absolutely. And your dad left. And I want you to get that out of your body because his shadow haunts you because there's a four year old little girl and they're saying, what was so bad about me? And then I want you to write a letter to your stepdad who cheated on your mom. I want you to let him know what you did, what he did to your family, what he did to you. And I want you to read that out loud to Nate. I want you all to share that together. In Nate, I don't want you to fix nothing. I don't want you to be like, yeah, and then I want you just to listen and be with your wife in that dark, scary space of grief, okay? Agreed. And then Elaine, here's what I want you to end both of those letters, okay? I want you to write to both of those men who you're going to become outside of their shadow. Just so you know, I'm going to be the best damn mom who ever lived. I'm going to be a writer, die wife. I'm going to be a great, strong, brilliant, beautiful, smart woman who's going to lock arms with this knucklehead Nate and together, the two of us are going to burn Elaine through the world. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. Okay. We're going to stop living in the shadows of these men that hurt your mom, that hurt you, that hurt your family. And we're going to start living in the light that is what you and Nate decide to do next. And listen, this is not an intellectual exercise. This is your body learning. It wasn't safe then, but it is safe now. And what that means is just going to take time. And Nate, she's going to need some more patience, okay? I got a lot for her. No, absolutely. The funny story is she's a lot of those things you just told me right now. The things you just said, she is. I know she is. But Elaine, you're going to understand what I'm saying when I say this, you're sprinting, but you got one of those, you know, like the NFL players that do the workouts and they got those parachutes behind them. Yes, sir. That's how you do life right now. You work so hard to be a good mom, to be an employee, to be a good wife, to be a good neighbor, to probably take care of your extended family. You do so much, but you got the, you got those, you got those demons hanging on to you. I want you to cut that, cut that parachute loose. Yes, sir. I want you to be free. I want you to be free too, Becky. Okay. Yes, sir. All right. You know, high, high honor to get to talk to both of you, like coming back from infidelity is always hard, but there comes a moment, right, when I have to quit holding on to this. I've got to quit fantasizing about what actually happened that night. When that picture pops into my head, I'm going to have another picture ready to go of him being the man that I know he is now. I'm not going to meditate on that old image that pops in my head. Whenever I start to feel itchy and sketchy and I don't know what's going on and I need to check his Facebook, I'm going to shoot him a text with an emoji that we've already talked about and let him know I'm feeling nervous and he's going to respond with a response we've already talked about and let him know he's right there with me. And when he gets home, that phone is going to be put away. We're going to hug for 60 seconds throughout when he walks in the door. We're going to reconnect. We're both going to exhale. And we're going to practice trust, practice building this thing from the flora. It's an honor to talk to both of you. High, high honor. Well, so much for calling. Keep me updated on how things are going and when y'all get pregnant with number six and number seven, we'll cheer you on then too. We come back and woman asks how to grieve her late husband while building a brand new relationship. Alright, I know it's uncomfortable. So many of you avoid talking about life insurance because it forces you to imagine things that nobody wants to think about. I get it. But here's what you need to remember. Life insurance is not really for you. It's protection for the people you love and who love and count on you. I recommend term life insurance from Xander insurance. When a family loses someone they depend on, the last thing they need is the financial chaos and wonder and confusion on top of the deep grief. People don't always realize how much they carry for their family every day. 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Yeah, so my question is, yeah, how do I continue healing from lots of like my husband while working on building a new future with somebody, somebody new in my life? Oh man. Um, what was your husband's name? Daniel. Daniel. When did he pass? In November of this last year. Oh my goodness, what happened? I came home and I found him overdosed. He had been relapsing for the past two and a half years prior to that. He'd been sober for eight years before that. And so we struggled for two and a half years with his on and off again use and the relationship became abusive during his use, it never was like that prior prior to him using. I would have never thought that it would have became abusive. And yeah, I had a couple of divorce consultations, but it was terrified to leave him because we have two children together and I was terrified that he was going to die. Yeah. Kathy, I'm sorry that happened. Yeah, me too. Holder, yeah. I'm 32. So we were together for 11 years and have two children together. What's life been like since November? Um, it was really, really hard. I also had 10 years of sobriety. I was working as an alcohol and drug counselor and with his death and everything surrounding what went on in the relationship. I also relapsed during that time and so it was a pretty dark time, but I'm back in recovery and rebuilding my life. I've been sober for a little over three months now and things have been feeling like they're getting back to a new kind of normal and also it's still, I'm still healing from the grief and, you know, I'm going in grief counseling and in a grief group and my, my older son went to a camp for kids around his age dealing with the loss of someone in their life. It's difficult, because I feel like I've the loss of our marriage, kind of quite a while ago. And also, like, I'm grieving him still. And I'm, you know, we had a happy, loving marriage prior to his relapse. And we'll never thought that you have relapsed. We'll never thought our marriage turned into what it, what it did was never dreamed of losing him. Let me jump into your soul. Can I ask you a few hard questions? Yeah. Okay. And these are only questions because I love you. And I care about you, and I want you to be well. Okay. Yeah. Do you still carry guilt that you should have made a phone call? You should have said a thing, you should have talked to him that one time. You shouldn't have got so mad. Do you still care? Okay. Listen to me as directly as you can hear me. Daniel's passing away was not your fault. Okay. Yeah. You're a good wife. Yeah. And you're a good mom. And you're a good partner. That wasn't your fault. Okay. Thank you. Do you feel guilty about relapsing? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. My children went to live with my parents. I've been told June. So they're newly back in my home and newly back with me. Yeah. So. So can I listen to me? A writer, die husband who's sick, who's struggling with addiction, who's fallen off a cliff and you're reaching down to grab him. And you went over the side too with him for a season. I just want to tell you, I'm glad you're back. I'm glad you survived. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you had parents that were there. Okay. Would you go back and make different choices? Of course you would. But we're here in the kids are back home. And I have like a physical like to the words new normal. I know it's like just everywhere. Nothing about what happens is normal. And there's that you'll know what I'm talking about. There's that surreal feeling that your kids go into a camp for kids who lose parents. That's surreal, right? It's surreal when you're talking to the person at the funeral home. It's surreal when you go back to your job as an alcohol and drug counselor and your husband passed away from a drug overdose. Everything feels like you're watching somebody else go through this. Right? Yeah, it doesn't feel real sometimes. Yeah. And in a weird way, your body's working perfectly because what it's trying to do is protect you from how bad that all hurts. And it gives you some space between it's almost, but it feels out of body. And yeah. Over the next few months, over the next few years, it will begin to you'll come back into your own skin. And there will be light again and the sun will come up again and there'll be laughter again and your kids will do goofy things again. And those dark black shadows will come back too. Right? Yeah. Because you're with Daniel for a long time. Y'all are teenagers. Right? So it's, I don't think anything's going to be normal. There's just going to be regular life. You might look back in 10 years and say, this is normal now. But I would even put that pressure on yourself to quote unquote be normal. You have permission to be out of sorts for a while. Yeah. Yeah. What I'm saying. Yeah. I do. Thank you for saying. It's important when you're in deep grief to put some boundaries on yourself. So I won't like in your case, especially I won't use period. I may pace around the neighborhood all night. I may watch old YouTube reruns of whatever all night, but I will not use. Right? I will not have some rebound stranger in my house that put my kids at risk. Like you get to put what boundaries you want on this grief, right? Yeah. So tell me about, have you met somebody new? Tell me about this, what you're thinking about looking forward or are you just looking down and saying, I don't want to be alone the rest of my life, but I don't even know where to start. Yeah. Yeah. No, I have met somebody new and just kind of casually started eating this person and started to start to care for them at the same time. Like I feel like there's massive guards up for me and, you know, and that's like I'm not just going to heal with grief like instantly or something or somebody's going to replace Daniel. And also it's like I want to I want to be able to open myself up for moving forward. Not like for getting what happened or like, you know, we keep Daniel's life very alive in our home and talk about him all the time with my kids and your kids are half him. Yeah. Right. So he's alive in your house whether you get rid of all those pictures or not. Those kids are half him. Yeah. And so my caution to you would be to go very, very slow. At the same time, I understand the object. I mean, I've never lived it, but I intellectually understand. I've sat with so many people over the years. I get the black hole of loneliness. Right. Just the, I mean, being with someone from 18 to 32, like there's those are really formative years that you, the anchors get the start to become one anchor, right? And suddenly have that thing ripped out. It's like you just woke up and you went for a run and you were missing a left leg and a left arm and a left part of your, of your heart, right? Like part of you, part of who's gone and the temptation is just to go grab anybody any, any, in, try to try to use them as a crotch so I can get back to running as I used to. And so you're not crazy for wanting companionship, you're not crazy for going on dates. I don't think you're a bad person. Like take all that guilt and nonsense out. Okay. What I want to caution you on is like, I don't think grief is something you get over. Yeah. It's something that your life expands around. But this, this gap will be there. And as your kids get older and they start to look like him or have weird similarities to him or deal with stress like he did, like he's a part of you. And whoever chooses to be your romantic partner and marry you into the future, they're, they're going to know that about you. You had this other life and they're going to say, I still choose you. Right. Right. But I want you, if you were my sister, if you were my like sister in law, if you were one of my nieces, I would tell you the same thing I'm going to, like, I would tell you, I want you to be a piece recognized. I've got both of my feet on the ground and I don't need somebody else to come in and lean on in this moment. Yeah. And that means you're going to have to have some girlfriends in your life. You're going to have to go do silly things. You're going to have to have fun. You're going to have to have a group of women that you do life with and get some, get some breath back in your lungs. And it just takes time. Yeah. And I have a, I'm lucky to have a group of really good recovery friends who, you know, I can easily say, help save my life during my intensive use. And do you have any friends outside of the recovery community? I have a few, but a lot of my friends are people that are in long-term recovery that have been my friends for a decade. And I tell anybody that's got a homogeneous group, which is a nerd, nerd way of saying like, if you're a policeman or you're a lawyer or you're a physician, you end up only hanging out with physicians or lawyers or doctors, right? And that becomes kind of what you talk about and it kind of becomes your world. And I would say one of the greatest blessings of my life is some of my closest friends, one's a banker and one works in HFAC and one works in, is a stand-up comic like they do different things in their life. And so when we get together, we talk about bigger things, not just those things. You get what I'm saying? And with in recovery group, everyone's doing different jobs and things like that. But I want you to begin to identify a bigger picture of yourself than just I'm in recovery. That's one of the things you do. That's one of your identities, one of the pieces of your life, but you're bigger than that. You're also an incredible mom, who hung in there. Yeah, thank you. You made it. So here's a couple of things I want you to I want you to write Daniel a letter and I want you to ask two or three or four of your closest friends in recovery, maybe even those that didn't know Daniel, if you can read it and share it with them. As David Kessler says, grief demands a witness. That's it. It's a strange alchemy, but it's how healing happens. It doesn't happen by yourself in your head. Mm-hmm. Okay. I like that. That's what I want you to write in this letter, three parts of it. Okay. I want you to write number one about some of your memories of the greatest times y'all had together and how much you miss him, silly things, funny things, goofy things, dumb things the way he put a socks on the wrong way or whatever. Okay. Very specific things that you remember. This second part of this letter, I want you to let him know how pissed off you are that he's gone. Yeah. The anger, the rage. How dare you. You left us. Okay. Yeah. You're not a bad friend, you're not a bad wife, your anger is right. Okay. Thank you for saying that. I would think, if you're not angry, you should probably see a professional therapist ASAP, right? You should be angry. And here's the third part, and it's critically important. I want you to let Daniel know who you are going to be. It's been so hard to look forward to the future. I know. That's why I want you to write it down. Your body needs you to write it down. And as specific as you can, not platitudes, not stuff you'd sew on a pillow or see it, a hobby lobby or whatever. Here's the kind of mom I'm going to be to our kids. I'm going to go be one of those cheesy moms who dot dot dot. I'm going to love these kids really well. I'm going to work two jobs if I have to, so that we can fill in the blank. But it's going to orient your entire body, your biology, not from what was, but what is going to be, okay? It's that scary question, what am I going to do next? Yeah. I think that's what I'm struggling with. Okay. Instead of saying, what am I going to do next? What kind of job am I going to have? Where am I going to live? I want you to start with, who am I going to be? And often starting with identity first, the action steps reverse engineer out of that pretty simply. And I want you to let Daniel know that and then I want you to read it out loud to a few friends. Okay. Share it with them. Share it in your grief counseling group. Okay. Thank you so, so much. Pick up David Kessler's book, Finding Meaning. It's one of the most powerful, extraordinary books on grief I've ever read in my life. It's a worthy read for anybody who's going through loss. Pick that up and start with that letter and then keep in recovery groups and keep going to your grief groups and senior counselor and proud of you. Got a long road ahead of you, but I think you're up for it. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So my friends at BetterHelp just released their annual state of stigma report, which is a giant report full of tons of data about the mental and emotional state of many folks across the world. And listen, it looks at data points. It looks at why people are void getting help for the mental health. And here's a data point that stood out when I read it more than three out of four Americans reported anxiety or depression symptoms in the previous two weeks. If that's you and you're carrying stress, anxiety symptoms or depression symptoms, listen, it's talking with someone, can help more than you realize. For that, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with one of their 30,000 plus license therapists based on your goals and preferences. It's easy and it's super convenient. You can message your therapists and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no extra cost. Listen, don't let stigma stand in the way of you getting the help you need. Visit BetterHelp.com/Deloney and get 10% off. That's [email protected]/Deloney. All right, Kelly, am I the problem? Go for it. All right. So this is from Sky in Paisen, Utah. I don't know. And she writes. Just look at it. Oh no. A lot of people who are Paisen, Utah is. Is it Passon? Could be. Might not be. I don't know. She's in Utah. There we go. And she writes. My eight-year-old son and 11-year-old daughter love earning money with their lemonade stands that they do every summer and they are learning to save for things they want. However, my husband believes that this is indicating that they are fixated on material things and this bothers him. He wants them to save their money and he believes they are not learning any valuable lessons is if all they do is spend on frivolous things. Which to him is basically anything that a child would want to spend their money on. I still let them do the lemonade stands and I let them spend their money on anything within a few limits because I believe that they are learning a lot more than just how to get what they want. Am I the problem? Read the beginning of that one time back. I've seen to make sure before I blow my top. My eight-year-old son and 11-year-old daughter love earning money with their lemonade stands that they do every summer and they are learning to save up for things that they want. However, my husband believes that this indicates that they are just fixated on material things and this bothers him. Okay. Yeah. We're good there. Why can't people just, like, like, good things happen? Like, why, Kelly? Like this show, for instance. Why can't you just let it happen sometimes? Because I have a mortgage to pay and children to feed and if I just let you be you, none of those things will happen because we'll all be out of the job. So here's the thing. You can spend money, you can save money, you can give away money and you can earn money. That's the four things you can do. I think it's important for kids to early, early on, modeled by their parents first, learn generosity, learn to give money away. Even if it's a quarter, even if it's a dollar, part of what you earn is we give back. And I'll let y'all pick whatever you want to give to, but that's an important part of it. The other part of it is those kids are doing what he's accusing them of not doing, which is saving money. They're earning money, which is awesome that 8 and 11-year-old understands already that money didn't just appear and they're out there earning it and they have their eye on a Lego set, on a new, whatever. And they save up to go get that thing. This is the perfect time for your 8 and 11-year-old to save up money, delay gratification, wait, and then buy something incredibly stupid. This is the moment because you know what? They will do that in their life. I'd rather them do it now than when I was 21 and I bought the biggest dumbest truck I could find because I was, there's a bunch of reasons why I bought that, most of them are scientific. But that was a bad thing, right? It was dumb. I wish at 8 and 11 I had that lived experience of, oh, I saved up for four weeks to buy this one plastic trinket and that's not a good use. And so when they want to buy the next thing, that's when you have those lessons, like, hey, those last three things you bought are either we gave them away or they're in the garbage or whatever. This is a perfect thing. Because the kid gets to be 12 or 13 or 14 and my house, that's when we started talking with my son about, you know, I'm a car and so I started, I think, at 12 or 13, here's how much cars cost and here's what I'm going to contribute and you're on your own after that. And also when you turn 16, I'm not going to be your taxi either. And so there started a small car fund that got over the next two, three, four years. So all that to say is, man, 8 and 11 dude, let him go out there and earn some money, let him save it up and let him buy something stupid and let him learn the weight of what that feels like and let him also learn the weight of, I earned it and I bought it. That's a, that's a cool feeling for a kid to learn, right? What do you think? I agree with you. I think, um, I think he's just over thinking it a little bit and he's just desperate to teach them this, this very important lesson, um, that he's just over thinking a bit at this point. But I also see, I agree with you, go ahead and teach him how to give, you know, and then you're going to start teaching him how to save, but they're on the right road. The fact that you're so on the right, yeah, yeah, and it's okay to breathe for a minute and, you know, I'm sure I'm trying to give him the benefit of that out of the little bit that he's like, oh, no, I don't want to raise materialistic children. And I get that, and I'm being dramatic today, but, but you're not, you're, they are learning a lot in this, with this, a lot more than a lot of kids, they're age. So many more kids there. Yeah. Yes. So I think he probably just, yeah, he has a feeling. of raising greedy kids, but the fact that they're wanting to do it, they're doing it themselves and not begging you for it. That's a huge win. Yeah. Take the win. Yes. Yes. Take the win. And this is an important thing for all parents. If you're 38 and you have a 12-year-old, your values, you should put them in a Roth 401k and you should be, that isn't the values of an eight-year-old. And so trying to impose that on top of an eight-year-old, it doesn't make any sense in their head. So let's practice these things in small increments until you can begin to paint a bigger picture. And it happens over time. Your kids are great. And yes, you're right, Kelly, good call out. That's probably a great guy. Just doesn't want a spoiled brat kid. I get totally get that. From my vantage point, the families I work with and the kids, your kids are way ahead of the game. So let them model your generosity, require them to give some of that money away, and make them work towards things and save it. The policy we use in my house is 401k John, or 401 John, like all match half of whatever you want to buy, all pay for half of it. And whether that was a car or whether that was a little goofy thing, and unless it's just so dumb, I'm like, nope, that one's all you, dude. And occasionally, my son has never done that before. My daughter's like, I'm gonna buy it anyway. Okay, okay, knock your lights out. But good on you for having kids who are a little entrepreneurs. We need a lot of those these days. Love you guys, bye.