Caleb Hearon Is Our Model Comedian | 72

This week we're talking about the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie One Battle After Another and we're joined by comedian and podcaster Caleb Herron to honestly mention it all, to talk about everything. So let me just say this. Let me say this. Are you looking for a home for your worst opinions? Are you a hater first, but a lover of pop culture second? Consider this a glorified group chat, but we're not calling you out, no no no, we're calling you in. It's a safe space. To talk shit. But of course. From Wondery, I'm Peyton Dix. And I'm Hunter Harris. And this is Let Me Say This. Let Me Say This. It's a fast talk, my talk, let me say this. Yo, I go off when I want, let me say this. Yo, oh my gosh, yeah we love it too, we hate it. Yo, get your vibe, I'm a talk, let me say this. Let me say this. You know me, I stay in a movie theater. So I walked myself to BAM to see One Battle After Another. And I had the time of my life. I had my, I got a, I kind of felt like that one video Tom Cruise, because I had half of my popcorn before the movie even started. I was about to be like, which one? Because I was just hungry. But I also, another crazy thing that happened, sorry, I'm rambling, but like, I went to the concessions and I was like, oh, can I get like a Sprite? And the woman was like, oh, we only have Sprite, like fountain Sprite, we don't have it in a bottle. And I was like, no, of course I want the fountain Sprite. Yeah. That's the good stuff. That's the preferred vehicle. But I had the time of my life. I loved this movie. I had so much fun. Okay. If you have not seen One Battle After Another, please skip ahead 10 minutes. This is a spoiler alert. But it's a new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And it is about a man named Bob, played by Leo DiCaprio, who is a washed up revolutionary who lives in the state of stoned paranoia, surviving off the grid with his spirited and self-reliant daughter, Willa, played by Chase Infinity. First ever film role. Can you believe it? When his evil nemesis resurfaces and Willa goes missing. The former radical scrambles to find her as both father and daughter battle the consequences of their pasts. And it also stars Keanu Taylor, Benicio Del Toro, Regina Hall, Sean Penn, and like a moment of Jungle Pussy and a moment of Lana Hine. And a moment of Jungle Pussy. That's in the Bible somewhere. Just by the way. At some point, it's there. Yeah. Okay. Lover, hater. I was a lover. I like imagine being a dad. I was a lover. I was a lover. I was a lover. To a daughter and not being embarrassing about it. Like crazy, crazy that Leo DiCaprio was the first man to ever do that. Well, wait. And to not be embarrassing about it. I'm like, well, Willa would disagree at some moments, but totally. Also, wait, quick question. Chase Infinity, is that her government name? I think Infinity is her middle name. I think her last name is like Payne. Chase Payne. Yeah. Chase Infinity. I just love, I love a star name. And I was like, ooh, that was God given. That's iconic. I had so much fun in this movie. Like, I don't know. I get more than I, I get nervous when I see a movie so hyped up that I go into it setting the bar really high. But I actually felt like, oh God, I had so much fun. And upon opening scene, I said, this is a movie for lesbians. This is for me. Paul Thomas Anderson said, Payton, I gotcha. It's just Teontio's face. And I'm like, I'm in. I'm alert. I'm sitting up straight. I literally like, I literally did actually sit up straight. I like put my reclining chair back. Yeah. Feet on the ground. Feet on the ground. Ooh, Tiana Taylor. Oh my God. Is so fucking fantastic in this. So I feel like the women in general were so great in this. I was so impressed with, you said it was her first role, Chase Infinity. I didn't realize that. What has she been in before? Yeah. She did not even know who Paul Thomas Anderson had not even seen any of his movies before this, which I'm like, wow. So real star. Real star. Real star. I kind of like this version of Leo playing like a dad who's like a little bit schlubby and a little bit like, I don't know. Not like cool because I think it really worked to see him like trying to get his daughter to like, think that he is like not a loser. Um, and it did remind me a lot of his like killers of the flower moon character who was also similarly kind of insecure and like that insecure, like really radiated off of him. Um, and then someone brought up to me, which I had totally forgotten this, that Paul Thomas Anderson did a rewrite of killers of the flower moon. And so that those sorts of commonalities between the movies, um, is probably like not intentional, but like definitely, um, exists. I was going to say there. There's something that felt a little too organic about the way Leo, Leonardo DiCaprio was hitting that vape. I was like, oh, you're not new to this. You're true to this buddy. Yeah. Um, but I love that too. Also like the robe of it all. I loved that. Like, but he's like truly wearing a robe does entire movie. I like how this movie really lent itself for like costume work and costume character. Like this is an easy movie to like riff off for Halloween. And I think that's always so fun when you can easily be like, oh, we can put these like materials together and create a character. For a few of them, you know, I think the chase, uh, the Willis skirt, her like, kind of like Cinderella II, like school dance with like the combat boots combination. And that was so stunning, especially when you see it getting dirty throughout the movie, like as she's running and fleeing and just like the, the way it sort of floats is really pretty in this like barren sort of desert. There was also this, um, really interesting beauty moment with Tiana Taylor and her eyelashes. She has like one particularly long eyelash extension in the middle and it kind of like affirmed what everyone is always saying about her, which is that she is a beautiful cat. Like she is a beautiful feline creature and like, looks like, you know, like the cuntiest little animal photos that you've ever seen of like a Jaguar or a tiger. I'm like, that is Tiana Taylor. Um, but I was curious if that might lend itself to a beauty trend. Or even her at the end of the fade music video. I, I did need to get my lashes done after I saw this movie. I was like, let me set my post a game up. Jill, get my seat ready. Um, something I love particularly about this movie was, um, not just because it's a movie, but because the casting in general and like a strong use of, of a star studded cast, but specifically the casting around young people chase shore. But when you go to the UC, you meet her friends and then you go to the high school dance. I loved all the, um, young people in it. It felt very anti-euphoria. It felt very like, um, anti like cool kid glamor. Like, like really what being a teen is like, which is like, you're breaking out. You have braces. You lovingly look like shit. That's what teenagers are supposed to do. You're supposed to be ugly. That's the point. And it like, for some reason filled me with a small detail, like so much joy in, in the casting of it. Um, I loved, yeah, I loved her little friends and, um, the way they styled them as well. And almost the way that they seem kind of street cast. Like one of them looked like he was about to crack the whole time. And I, I thought that was great. The one that drove. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of, one of my like favorite details was how in the movie, like Bob doesn't think Willa has a cell phone. And of course everyone, all of her friends were like, of course she has a phone. Even Benicio Del Toro is like, of course. She has a phone. Like she's a teenage girl. And I think even one of the, um, one of the like interrogators to like the other teens is like, so this is the only teenage girl in the entire world that doesn't have a cell phone. Really? Look me in my eyes. And even that moment of like disconnection between father and daughter was so funny and special. And I mean, even the scene when Bob is in the car and he's like, you know, talking about how the Tiana Taylor absence, like really informs the whole movie and you miss her when she's not on screen because she is so captivating. But at the same time, she's like, I don't know. I don't know. But at the same time, like you almost, I think have sympathy for everyone when it's like, oh, Bob, like can't do his daughter's hair. Like doesn't, like can't do like all of those mom things. And as long as I feel bad about Tiana Taylor, like not being in the rest of the movie, I, I don't know. I just feel like so much sympathy for kind of everyone involved. And I think the letter that she writes to Willa at the end draws that out in like a really sweet way. Um, and I also found it really interesting, like how present the current cultural, cultural climate was in this film. Is it, do you know if it's supposed to be set in a specific time or is it, is the whole point is like, it could be now, it could be in a few years, like a near future. Did it say at any point? Yeah, I don't know. I just like, you know, considering. I mean, the cars felt like contemporary. Yeah, that's true. I just, I couldn't remember where it was supposed to be placed and if it was supposed to feel obviously very similar to like the ice raids that are happening right now. And like, um, obviously like a lot about like Palestine and the cultural climate and like, um, any kind of like activism felt, what did it, what did it, what was the line about? We have a little, uh, Latino Harriet Tubman thing going on over down here. Wake that up. I also loved that those, all of those scenes like weren't, um, sometimes like that was such an interesting and like great choice because you really, it's like, oh, that's a whole other movie narrative story happening. And we just like get a glimpse of it in, you know, I think a lesser movie would have like really labored to like. Present that more. And I like that we're like popping into this. And in the background, it's just like Bob being like, I need a phone. I need a plug to charge my phone, which was also extremely stressful. Oh, I loved his manic energy, even though of course it was highly triggering for me. Uh, I was like, Ooh, a father figure in my life coming up right now. No, him not having his phone charged. And it was like that. It was a like landline. I was like, it was no, I truly think it was like a landline, like phone where he's like charging like a port. I was like, the glasses. He was wearing those big ass glasses. Are those the glasses that you wear after you get your eyes, like your eyes dilated, like your pupils dilated? Yes. But we also see him steal them from that, um, from that grocery store too. I know. I was just like, um, and then all of these are like, you're getting your pupils dilated or like they're Balenciaga. And I like, can't tell which one. And you know, um, I did also love all the stuff when he's on the phone asking for the password and he's like, I literally don't know the password. Like you're going to have to tell me. Cause that's me. On every single device I've ever been logged in, into I'm like what do you mean you need the street that my second grade best friend grew up on and also like the last name of my dance instructor from ballet when I was in the seventh grade like what are you talking about that's that feels very like modern to me I loved Regina Hall in this too I wanted more of a clear ending for her character I'll just say that but I just forgot how good it is to see her on the big screen first on that bandana looking hot as hell looking bisexual as ever but I was like oh it reminded me like okay thank god scary movies coming back like I actually now more than ever do we need that and we just need more Regina Hall I truly think she's like so brilliant did you ever see um Honk for Jesus Save Your Soul no unfortunate title but a really good movie that she was in with um Sterling K Brown uh that I think was produced by like Daniel Truly so good in it um and it's the like perfect comedy but also like with a really kind of sweet soft core um but I think she's like truly such a good as like good a dramatic actress honestly almost as good as she is like a comedian because she is also so funny I want to ask you about this online ass rollout like they are I mean how do you open I guess a movie that costs 130 million dollars not based on like um any kind of superhero like it's impossible to really describe what the movie is about no marvel involved yeah I mean it's like based on a book but I don't think Thomas Pinchun is really like getting the girls in the seats um but they like did New Heights Leo and Benicio um Chase has really been like putting her feet boots on the ground for these making these tiktoks like to get people to see this movie and it honestly kind of like I like that I like that it feels like this is a broad appeal comedy thriller like we should be promoting it in like the most kind of like normal way I have not pressed play on New Heights only that one time for Miss Swift live shout out to my work ethic um but I was surprised to see them on there I mean I like cultural crossover moments like that I love a little high a little low if you will um but I I was actually gonna say I'm curious that you are into that because I do feel like real cinephiles are like oh like is this how we have to market movies now like is this what we unless you're organically doing that and that's you like to like play and be online but is there is this just a new way that like we have to lean into the fact that if we want younger audiences or just to reach more people in general that we have to like play online in these less traditional ways because part of me I feel like sometimes it can very fast go like gimmicky or make it cheap in the material I guess I maybe because I'm thinking about that Maya Hawke interview where she was talking about how she was being told that she has to really work on her social media presence in order to get roles and she was just like not do you know who my parents are but like but low-key do you know who her parents are like that feels crazy that that's a conversation we're having I mean I think that's true but I think there's a difference between like you know followers uh converting and where this feels a lot more like okay so we're it's like Chase and Leo sitting in like a press room and she's explaining to him what like that to me feels like the absolute like core of this movie is about a daughter like making like really emboldening her dad to like stand up for himself and also like become a member of like society again and um that feels very like okay grandpa like come on like let's let's get your ass in front of a tv to one summer I turn pretty with the rest of the world or was he team Jeremiah did he say he was team I'm 50 years old and I'm still dating girls who are 27 so he should know more than anyone he should be like team Conrad period forever I know I know well no it's also funny because I remember randomly on a red carpet once he was like oh I love euphoria and I'm like you're so pervert yeah no you shouldn't be more than that but yes he they were team uh Conrad both of them um okay well I I'm hearing this is an award season front runner but I'm also hearing that it is like the only real like contender to be released so far so wait what's going on do you think sinners wouldn't be a contender that's the only other movie there's only one I could think of that feels like at scale of this yeah um but wait me fuck the awards let's talk about your top three leo moments because I know you have some hyper specific niche unnecessary references to make right now so go ahead on um okay I'm really doing this off the dome I didn't prepare these at all um I'm going to say oh one of them is that one tiktok of him in a club and he's like like has a hat low cigarette smoking and it's like delete delete get that get that bread delete it's so he is like really getting his best life it's hilarious um I'll post the tiktok I've I literally post every for my birthday anyway um also gonna say um him oh him trying to talk to Rihanna at Coachella that one year that was very special and important to me and then and also him sneaking into her birthday like two years later and literally sneaking in according to page six wait would you which one which one would you pick between okay between Ethan Hawke trying to talk to Rihanna and Leonardo DiCaprio trying to talk to Rihanna which one was more iconic obviously Leo trying to talk to Rihanna Ethan Hawke talking to Rihanna to me is like when people are like their friends in Devil Wears Prada aren't nice I'm like okay so you've been online before that's great I love abusing your child so that you I would abuse my child to talk to Rihanna I would do her I would abuse my grandparents what's also funny about the Ethan Hawke Rihanna like photo set is that like just out of frame of Spike Lee looking so fucking annoyed and no one ever talks about it he literally is sitting there like this he is like I could I just trying to watch my beloved Knicks as a fellow lifelong Knicks fan I understand okay wait what was your final what was your final Leo moment my final one would probably be oh maybe that video of him um whenever Lady Gaga like walks behind him to accept a golden globe like during the stars born here and he she like runs in his chair and he like jumps and like looks back and is like so spooked that one's pretty oh no no no I think even better than that is um him getting hit in the head with a volleyball where when like smack dab right in the middle of his face he loves summer he got hit oh oh wait yes I know exactly the paparazzi photo you're talking about too yeah yeah yes what are yours I'm not thinking about Leo I came on this podcast lesbian first I said move over Teyana Taylor is right there you think I'm looking at Leo you know why I act about Teyana Taylor I act like Sean Penn's character in that movie I'm ogling her down I am like on my knees I'm sweating I'm pressed I'm hot I'm heavy I'm like she is the ultimate woman she's the original top she's the original femme dom like everything about her makes me active like I literally can you see my posture right now like it's anything could happen no I can see it well let me can I say this I saw her at the Nike skims um I almost said premiere party like at the Nike skims drop party she looked right past me and I was like oh like I I literally like gasped in such a way she is so beautiful in person also so petite so tiny um her Alandria bad bitches only it's very like when when the first person said damn that body is T they were originally talking about Teyana Taylor like that's the original source and is that true no did I just make that up of course top three Teyana Taylor topping moments specifically one not her and Victoria Monet on the BET stage but her throwing her ass in a circle on Victoria Monet in the club not realizing they're being filmed and Victoria Monet has her hand around her neck and up in her hair yeah only black girls are allowed to touch other black girls hair by the way it was formative and then Teyana Taylor actually more so kind of being topped but maybe as like like a power bottom situation um at the 2021 VMAs with Normani um I don't know if I stand behind the Aaron Pierre of it all it is two beautiful creatures with not a drop of chemistry is what I'm picking up on and honestly maybe this movie maybe Teyana Taylor in almost every scene of this movie is her topping Leo topping Sean Penn topping herself topping uh society the revolution yeah um her with that gun pregnant yeah so I can't believe you said Aaron Pierre without saying that's Mufasa because that's the only thing I hear when I think about him and that's how it should be I think we just get right into it oh fuck a setup oh hey I love yeah I'm my best self right now that was that octave that I hit was it was beautiful to me was it like a song yeah like a bird yeah with us today Caleb Aaron oh my god comedian actor and new stand-up on HBO special right now called model comedian right yeah yeah we locked in this weekend press play came out on the on Friday on Friday yes it's Sunday we're recording on Sunday that's how serious we are that's how much we wanted to be yeah we're not playing around we're making it happen yeah we're locking in for once um we have a question we asked everybody are you a lover or a hater oh I'm a lover yeah I'm a - It's a game over. a lover who is capable of hate overall I'm a lover I want to love things but the reality is sometimes people and things give you a real reason to hate yeah and so look you love I to me being a lover doesn't mean that you exclusively love and you never hate it means that you really want to love and you're predisposed to love but I'll hate when the time is right yeah I'll hate without a reason sometimes when I'm called to hate yeah I'll if the chair moves me I'll preach yeah I'll do it it's no problem for me yeah and it's getting I'm getting called a lot lately yeah yeah yeah called yeah I get called because people are crazy and stuff is bad and so I get called by that are you guys lovers or haters what do you identify what do you think I think well I'm getting lover from the big heart hands over there that could be a big hater bit and then here you don't seem like a hater but I think you I could see you saying it I well I'm from the midwest so I can't really be a hater right but I but it's it's in it's underneath where you from Oklahoma I'm from Tulsa you told me okay yeah yeah I okay do you love it do I love Tulsa yeah honestly now it's gotten a lot better yeah yeah it used to be have you been recently do you have you been I've not been recently now um it used when I was like in high school I was like okay here we go senor tequila I guess and then now I'm like wait there's so many other places to go like there's a big park now well this where are you from oh okay yes okay well there's this thing happening in the middle of the country and over the I think over the last decade that speaks to what you're saying which is like a bunch of places like Kansas City included a bunch of places like Kansas City included a bunch of places like there's a bunch of places that were like bad to just okay like boring to just like fine yeah have gotten so much cooler because people can't afford to live on the coast yeah so that's obviously sad but it's like there's so many new restaurants there's like new clubs new arts initiatives new like like people are like opening things up and like kind of moving home and it's really exciting yeah yeah yeah no my best friend moved home and it was like it's like fun now that there's like so much more stuff to do and when I go home I get to see him and so that's nice yeah so y'all moved to Boston to go to school yeah and that's where you met yes yeah okay too much on the mic but yeah yeah yeah yeah don't don't put Boston on us but yeah no please leave out Boston like I don't want to I don't want to claim it I don't want to claim it you guys met in yeah that's when we became friends right yeah exactly yeah it's like Spain España yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah actually um okay follow-up question are you a lover or hater of free speech ever heard of her well that one's tricky because when I do it it's so good but sometimes other people are abusing it you know when other people do free speech sometimes it's like they shouldn't be allowed to do that you know yeah because they're saying bad things but when I use free speech it's like well this is a fundamental right yeah do you know what I mean it's like and I deserve yeah it's like I should be able to say anything without punishment because humans deserve that and then when someone says something I don't agree with it's like we need to rethink we have to reconsider silence yeah yeah it's golden I will say like look obviously Trump is like silencing his enemies with like the FCC and obviously that's bad and we have to be I will say like if I was president I can't promise I wouldn't do it you know what I mean you're telling me you have the power of the government to silence your enemies and you're not going to kind of be like maybe it's bad for democracy but like I think yeah either on my evil days I would be like shut down that show they're being annoying you know what I mean yeah don't criticize me criticizing me is crazy I'm the president that's crazy yeah like we don't like it when he does it but again if I did it I think it'd be kind of chic I would yeah yeah yeah I like making laws and rules around me well hello it's like different when I do things I've been saying this for years when I do things it's totally separate from when other people do it yeah don't even be like hello I mean that even that part in your special where you just call everyone a faggot back to back to back they're being faggots it's turned into slam poetry actually at a point like I was feeling I was like in a beatnik over there you're in the audience doing this yeah I'm like what am I talking about but I was like this is important we should wake this conversation up how quickly your republicanism is actually faggots it's crazy to me and I'm like I don't under we've got to stop being nice I think yeah we have to stop being nice nice is not working yeah yeah so we need to start being honest yes yes that does remind me too of the the woman who's doing the holocaust tour who was like um saying that everyone driving through was a nazi yeah and like yeah it does feel crazy that now you're not allowed to say that you can't call a nazi a nazi listen to women like she had something to say and she said it not all women not all women but the ones I agree with name three women who's literally me actually sometimes honestly I just said beatnik and then went like this so maybe me clicked my like non-existent males together um there was also this speaking of being meaner which I am very for I'm stepping into my hater era actually really I love to see that and the shoes fit what's inspiring um the hater the culture the culture yeah the culture the part where you were talking about being bullied and then their like response to it I thought you were gonna hit me with it I'm rubber you're glue what is it what oh wait you bouncing off me and hits you sticks on you yeah like again the beatnik poetry yeah why was that our response like is to be like a rhyme scheme yeah no I hope that you were like this actually makes matters worse for me like this is not helpful yeah I don't it's yeah it's the it goes back to the being nice thing I'm like it's not working it's not authentic like we have to stop being nice in general I think the behavior has gotten so bad that we have to stop being nice and we have to stop being nice and we have to stop being nice it's like the like the use of AI for example like we're like we're trying to reason with these people and be like you shouldn't use AI because of the water sources and things which is true yeah I think it's more effective to be like you look fucking pathetic using AI yeah like using chat gpt makes you look like a loser yeah like we need to get to the heart of this thing and start using shame as a tool again yeah no I think works actually I think we do I think AI loser yeah like hold this like this is for you you're a loser this is crazy single-handedly bringing it back on this podcast are you literally literally yes a few times actually more than yeah it's been landing quite a bit wait I want to know how you guys met though how did you how did you meet like what was the circumstances of meeting we were the only two black girls in our like film 101 class yeah and we in redacted city yeah yeah to say that we won't name at a school that we don't talk about that we've named so many times in so many public places um yeah yeah it's kind of when you're like we kind of locked in in that way yeah we're where I was like, fuck. It's me and you. It's me and you and you. And Hunter was like, then, then, same thing. Until now. Like, all right, not too much. We don't have to rub each other. We can just be friends sitting next to each other. No, I liked it. Like, unfortunately, this is my kind of way to be affectionate. Yeah. I really hate being poked. It's to irritate. Yeah. You hate being poked. Yeah. That makes sense. It is like a classically antagonistic thing to do. But I also do it. Which is why it's so fun. Oh, I show love by being like, come here. I like to, yeah, I like to pinch. I like to poke. Yeah. That's my love. Especially if someone doesn't like it. Yeah. Then I'm even more inclined. Yeah. So it's fun being me, actually. Yeah. I'm actually struggling all the time, but I'm loving it. You're like, we're actually working through something. I just have to say, also, you guys are real, is this where you always record? This is like your studio? Yeah. You're heroes. Because getting here is, it's like the instructions for getting here are like, not only are we in Midtown Manhattan, but it's like the building has a different address on the front of it than what the address is that you go to. Correct. Then you have to take elevator. You have to take the elevators to a middle floor to switch to a new elevator bank and go to another. It's like, y'all are doing the work. Thank you. I hope your fans understand that you're doing the work for them. I was like, do you know how serious it is to get here and do this show? And on a Sunday, too. On a Sunday, by the way. On a Sunday. Which is, that's my bad, but like, on a Sunday is crazy. No, yeah. We're being crazy right now. But actually, I think Sunday, fine. Child's Play. Monday is when we record. Yeah. Mondays are tough. It's like, we're starting the week in Times Square. And we still deliver. That's a big ask. And so your fans need to appreciate and respect. That's why I'm bringing it up. I'm like, I hope you guys know what you have. That you guys care. Well, thank you. To cut to two elevator banks is crazy. Like, y'all care. A lot of people are phoning it in, in the podcast space, and not y'all. No. It's very lively. And there's only, like, there's not even, like, coffee on site. It's like. No, you're working. There's a little coffee shop downstairs that is not even open. Our producers chime in. They're like, well, what else? Yeah, what else then? What else do we need to pay? No, y'all are basically, like, coal miners. It's crazy. Yeah. You're working so hard. Yeah. We're doing the Harriet Tubman of podcasting. It's an honor to stand in your life. So this is the woman who should be silent right now, actually. So let's make that up again. I thought it was true. My mic just cuts out. Wait, I actually wanted to talk about. I love. There's this one clip from your podcast that I saw that was you talking to your mom. And I love the way you talk to your mom. Because I talk to my mom like a white person, too. And I'm like, oh. You're open. Let's go. Free. How had you always been closed? And can you just talk about your relationship? With your mother? Yeah. We kind of. We, like, grew up together. You know, my mom had my brother when she was 17. She had me when she was 21. And so, like, that's just kind of how everybody does it in Missouri. That's how it is over there. But, like, she. We really grew up together. And I feel like, you know, she. The thing I love most about my mom. There are many things. She's brilliant. She's so kind. She's one of the funniest people I've ever met. Like, I truly. She is my favorite person in the whole world. But the thing I really love most about her as a parent. Is that. And the reason we're able to, like, joke around. And have such a silly relationship. Is that she doesn't take herself too seriously. And she takes notes. And she takes notes. And so, our. If you really, I think, as a parent. Want to have a friendship with your adult child. Like, if you want it to move beyond. Just like, I'm the person who used to tell you what to do. And now I'm kind of not. If you want to go to a place of genuine friendship. Where your kid wants to call you. And wants to visit. Et cetera. Out of not just obligation. But excitement. You have to take notes. Because you're going to. Everybody fucks their kids up in some way. My mom certainly made huge. Huge mistakes. But did a million things right. And so, when I say, like, hey. The way that you and dad did this. Really affected me in this way. She goes, yeah. I'm so sorry. sorry I totally get how that could be like that and I wish I had known better and so that that openness is like it's very healing and also like necessary to have the kind of friendship that we have so sometimes I think when my I have like uh parents of friends that are like oh I wish we I wish you would talk to me about more stuff and I'm like well they can't because you won't actually hear it do you know what I mean yeah yeah and then people get very surprised that my mom and I talk so openly about like sex and and all these other kinds of things and I'm like well number one my mom's a nurse and so like she has seen everything she knows everything about the body have you seen the pit okay it's like hello everything yeah I'm like she's not shy about body stuff and also it's just like I don't know it's I think that some people are kind of scandalized by it and I'm like well why this person birthed me and has seen me at every worst moment of my entire life yeah why would it be weird to talk about someone I hooked up with it's like she knows so many worse things yeah do you know what I mean yeah yeah but yeah I love I love her so much oh she's when she said they them I'm gonna do me you my mom she really that's the thing is she told her she's so much funnier than I am she is she's the pink print she is so the pink she's a pink print say it she's the pink print dude she's so fucking funny and she gets on with everybody my mom has never met a stranger every I have seen every single type of person in this world encounter my mom and be like I like her like she's just a good time you know but yeah I think there's also a kind of like I really derive something in my comedy from my mom which is like she's not walking around scared that someone's going to be upset with her if she upsets someone she'll just apologize yeah and it's like that'll be fine you know what I mean but she's not trying to upset anyone she's not worried that she'll upset anyone she's just like even like they them I'm going to do me it's like yeah that's that's something I think someone else would be very like reserved and scared about and she's like well no they know what I meant you know what I mean just a willing a trust and an understanding that like people are not out to get you yeah for sure you know oh my god so she's never been on the internet like right that is well how do you guys feel because you're both on the internet in in a way where I feel like you've had to deal with I feel like people are remarking and commenting and giving feedback what do you mean everyone says we're two perfect angels I don't know what I mean is by virtue of by virtue of having the kind of following that you guys have I feel like you've had to deal with the bad sides of the internet in the same way that I have and like how is your relationship to it well I'm on the road to get canceled I'm on the road to get canceled I'm on the road to get canceled you're waiting you're on the journey I'm trying yeah I'm putting in the hours well actually one time I had this like tiktok that went viral and it was like fucking I hate summer it was too hot and I was like this summer makes me believe that god really did hate fags and then it cuts off I don't think I looked gay enough in it because I like quit out the app go it's like uh-oh this this reached the wrong side it didn't reach like my fellow queer people being like yeah faggot it reached people being like yeah hate those gays like god hates gays wait really yes and so I think people thought that I was straight saying that that is so wait I thought like gay men also got mad that I was saying faggot okay get over it oh my god I've had it with this and let's and let's wake that conversation because they do the same thing with me and dyke and I'm like are do you want to be in community or not yeah do you want to link and build or what stop what do you want on the other side of the door I am your brother in queerness and christ yeah I'm gonna say this word no dyke should say faggot faggot can say dyke like hello hello we it's us against the world yeah I'm gonna say dyke it's so silly we have so many other things to care about but anyway yeah and then hunter's like yes I'm saying silent and I say it in solidarity I don't mind my business actually yeah and you're going the road to get canceled it's starting now no I believe you to say whatever you want yeah I don't know I think it's like the before I I guess started becoming more of like a person online I worked in social for like pretty big brands for a long time and I think like that felt worse because I was obligated to stay online versus me as a person I can kind of just not to be tired of the creator like shut my laptop like yeah I think the minute I let myself engage too much into like what people that I don't trust and care and respect think about me then like then I've lost the plot you know how are you getting cyber bullied close your laptop yeah now he ate with that I just like wait there's a solution and it's this it's it's over how are you gonna call me a stalker yeah I don't know what you're gonna call me I don't know what you're gonna call me yeah I don't know what you're gonna call me yeah I don't know what you're gonna call me yeah I don't know I feel like the other side where I can't like buy in too much to win like all the praise because that also feels like a double-edged sword to be like started by yes men or something like that I was interviewing Usher once and he said if you live by the applause you'll die by the booze I was like period that's a great way to put it like I thought we were going gaga I thought it was gonna go gaga for a second no it's so true I've been talking about it for a while now it's like there is a portal to your soul that exists and you you need to keep a little version of yourself there guarding it against criticism and praise yeah when it comes that's the moment that I've been in is I feel like for the last like you know year or so it's been mostly really nice things and people being saying nice things about me for the most part and that's very kind but I try to just I see it I receive it for a moment and then I move on because if you leave that portal open yeah exactly though it'll it'll never be enough yeah it's a dwindling resource yeah if it's a thousand nice comments on the first week of something and you let it all you take it all in and it feels so good when it's only 800 the next time you'll feel sick yeah because now you've gotten addicted to this thing and so you really really really have to be so intentional I don't just think about being on the internet but about life in general about really being careful where you take your praise from and where you take your criticism from of course but that's the easy part is being like anyone who hates me is wrong you know or whatever but being careful where you take your praise from as well is so important because if not then that portal is just open for anything to come in and out and like rattle around in there and it will really you up I think yeah you know what this reminds me of where the artist way always I was gonna say we're actually going to talk about the artist y'all have been through a hard time a few I'm a lesbian you know what I've survived war okay how long do you have during my morning pages through tears every day when someone tells me they're doing the artist way I'm like come here let me give you a hug yeah because I know something's up you know what I mean and I've done it three times and I've survived oh period oh I did it someone clocked my TV the other day I said oh um I journal kind of every day anyway again lesbian but I said oh I actually finished our this way and he goes but is the work ever done oh wow oh and so why would you say that actually I actually like it's the morning yeah relax but it did it did rattle me to my core that shook the table maybe I started again that's really crazy yeah don't ever say some shit like that no no it was actually it was a straight man oh no yeah I shouldn't have even said that well we kind of fucked up with straight men because we've talked about it a lot but I don't think it's true I don't think it's true we've taught them too much and they are getting powerful they know like therapy now it's really scary stuff yes they will weaponize ADHD they will weaponize anxiety they'll do it all and they dress like a lesbian while doing it and it's locked up they look good and they talk smart now it's really scary they're like they're they're like talking about their emotional they're like doing emotional check-ins I'm like this was not you were not supposed to have these tools yeah yeah I feel like we armed them and now it's like they're using it and I'm very scared which is why I'm like we're very pro himbo bring bring back a good all himbo I love a dumb hottie I love it I think that's what the straight man should serve is just kind of stand there and I'll go let me yeah I'll let you and that's it like but we also I think we need to you need to do I saw somebody recently so very cool he was like a kind of like thicker gorgeous gay man and he was like he was like just a dumb himbo and I'm looking at him and I'm going I can see in your eyes that you're not a dumb himbo and now you're trying at something the hottest thing you can do is do your actual thing don't play it a prototype don't try to be something you're not yeah I can tell in your eyes that you read and you need to you need to knock it off with the himbo cosplay I can see it in your face that you're smart you're reading you're literate you're thinking I can see the literacy it's jumping out you like show him a sign he like pretends to not be able to read it wait cosplaying himbo wow you're waking something up well yeah sometimes people are trying at a thing that they're not and I'm like you're you don't need to grasp for another thing the way that you do cool would already work for you just do it yeah I can feel you grasping and you don't need to be grasping and trying and calling you need to do your thing really well you know what I mean yeah like when I say I like a himbo I like an authentic himbo yeah you know like a johnny bravo exactly correct yeah yeah yeah I summon johnny bravo into the room with us yeah he's always with us actually who were you guys like childhood cartoon crushes she go and then jake dra jake long the american dragon yeah oh my gosh um beast from beauty and the beast really yeah I'm in therapy I was gonna say I just learned something yeah oh um I always forget his name but the god I'm gonna start sweating um the the guy from the like general from Mulan oh totally oh very much like that was crazy yeah bisexuality is real that was yeah yeah um him and then oh gosh who were my others oh I had a real thing for max from goofy movie oh that was stacked with hotties everyone in that movie is fuckable oh yeah I just took it out of the way I did with my chest I can I can there was a hard fc and k in that yeah - Oof. - Yeah. - But, am I wrong though? - But hey, at the end of the day. - Hotties as far as I can see, including Goofy, actually. - Yeah. - Yeah, a little bit including Goofy. But he's too silly. I'm like, I, okay, I felt very seating or special because I was clipboard kid. I was very type A, strict. I was very much- - Strict. - If you imagine Dakota Fanning in Uptown Girls, that was very much me. So that's why I can't do it with Goofy. It's a bit much. - You can't do too much Goofy 'cause you need someone to match your serious? - Yeah, yeah. I'm like, we need to like, we need order. We need to, how are we gonna get somewhere on time? - Do you see a world where someone Goofy could balance you out in a way that you would love? Or are you really like, no, it's not gonna work? - No, I would be up for the challenge. - Yeah, okay, nice. - Not that Goofy, but. - I'll be up for the challenge. That being said, let's keep it a little. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Come together. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Keep it cute. - Not so Goofy, but maybe a little bit of silliness or tomfoolery. - Just like a little, like a little, oh my god, a little. - Did you watch Love Island? - No. - Okay, that's all right. - And good, no, good. - I'm sorry, what's, it seems like they're just, it seems like they're having fun though. - And we're not. - Yeah. - Yeah, no. - What's going on over there? - I was just wondering 'cause I was gonna bring up AIDS, but it's not, no. - It's a place that we need to get off the island. We get out of Fiji. - Yeah, we're still in, unfortunately, we're still in Love Island, all of us. - America. - Are we? - It's time we get off. - Yeah. - Yeah, I miss all the unscripted, all the reality TV show stuff I don't watch, and so I miss all of the cultural conversation about it. And I end up at a lot of dinners with a lot of gay people not knowing what's going on. - But I think that's a good place to be. - That sounds nice. - Sounds like you're free. - It's kind of nice 'cause they get to teach me, you know, and they get to tell me about stuff. Like I learned about Nicolandria. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Am I saying that right? - Am I saying it correctly? - Nicolandria. - Is that their nickname? - Yeah. - I learned about them, and they seem lovely, and you know, I'm just happy for everyone involved. - Yeah. - I don't know about it. You know what I just watched that I was so inspired by? Have y'all seen the Devo documentary on Netflix? - No. - No. - Okay, so Devo, do you know Devo? They wore the little-- - The band. - Whip It Good. - Oh, yes, yes. - With the little hats. - Yes. - So I didn't actually know much about them, and I'm not like, oh my God, I love Devo or anything, but I watch pretty much every documentary I can find. I just love them, and I saw the documentary on Netflix, and I was like, okay, the little clip looked kind of good, and then I watched it, and I was very moved. Like, I was very inspired by their artistry. - Really? - They are very, like, I immediately sent it to Sarah Sherman, 'cause I was like, this feels like something you need to see, and it just is like, they were such weirdos, and they took such huge risks, and it really wasn't working at first, and they were making videos long before MTV existed, and they actually, there was a moment they were talking about where their label wanted to make big cardboard cutouts of them to put in all the record stores, to sell their record. And they were like, how much would that cost? And their label was like, oh, $5,000. And they were like, could we use it to make a video instead? And the label was like, why? Like, what would we do with that? So they were really ahead of the curve on so many things, and really stayed true to, like, they were satirizing a lot of American culture, and how dumb they felt we were getting. And I was just very moved by their artistry. It was pretty cool. - I have only ever thought about them as like, just that one song and Jesso's hats. - Silly, with the hats, yeah. But they were doing a whole, they were doing performance art. They were doing, like, their whole, the band's name is based on devolution, like the devolution of the species, like the kind of like, idiocracy of the culture. - Wow. - And they were doing this in the 70s. Like, it really was, it was so good. - Okay, we may press play. - I really liked it. - I will be pressing play. - Yeah, yeah. - Next episode, we tune in. - Next episode. Yeah, you guys are wearing the hats. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We're in full drag. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You've gotta watch it. - But I really liked it. I thought it was so good. Why did I bring that up? What was my point? - I'm coming up with being like, do you watch Love Island? And you're like, a secret third thing. Actually, what I watch is the Devo documentary. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm watching documentaries about the dumbest, anything, anything. I'll watch a documentary about anything. - Oh my gosh. - The sports ones, I watch all the 30 for 30s. - Oh, well, those are good. - Did you watch one, what did we just watch? - The mom one. - The mom one. - Texting. - Yeah, yes. - Yes, I watched it. - That one gagged me. - I sped through it. - It was horrifying. - So not only was it horrifying, by the way, but I don't know if y'all had the same issue that I did. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It was like, yeah, it wasn't me at first, but then I, it wasn't me at first, but then I kept it up, 'cause we wanted to find out who it was. And I'm like, she's so clearly lying. - Yes. - You guys, why is a producer not off-camera going, so I think a lot of people would think that's a blatant and bold lie. What do you say to that? - What? - Like, come on, like, do the interview. - Yeah, yeah. - I felt crazy. It's like, this woman is a nut job. - Yeah. - The whole thing was nuts. - Yeah. - But also, her only answer was like, "Well, it just kind of blew out of proportion, "just kept snowballing, it kept spiraling." And it's like, "But why did you tell your daughter to kill herself?" - Yeah. - Like, why? - It just got out of hand. - It's like, what? - It got out of hand. But you were also, not for nothing, but they almost said nothing of the fact that she was texting very sexually explicit things to a teen boy. - Yes. - I'm like, that, in its own thing, is like, hello? - Yeah, yeah. Creamy is a word I never want to hear again. - Oh. - Why'd you even bring it into this one right now? I'm like-- - Well, I don't know. - I don't know. - Well, all right. - We had to. - We had to. - This is a family pod-- - No, we didn't have to. - We had to do it. - We're journalists. - Yeah, we're doing the work. - We had to bring Creamy in. - They didn't do it in the documentary, so we're doing it now. - Yeah. - "Devil Wears Prada 2." - Yes. - Okay, one, I didn't even know you were in that one until we're looking up. And please tell us any tea that you can. Were you a "Devil Wears Prada," you know, I assume super fan 'cause you were gay? - Oh my God, yeah. I was, yeah. Like little closeted, like 10-year-old me in Missouri watching that movie for the first time and being like, "This is everything to me." - Yeah. - Yeah, it's really, it's really nuts. I, honest, to be 100% honest, I was not really auditioning at the moment that the audition came through. I had told my team, like, I kind of just want to focus on my own stuff right now. And 'cause every, I just get so exhausted by auditioning 'cause no one's writing anything for me. Like everything, when something is for a fat guy, they want like an older, straight, like they want a guy to be like, "Hit me that wrench," you know, and when something's for a gay guy, they want like a thin, bitchy like 22-year-old twink, which is fabulous. And I'm so in love with that for them. But I just was like, "I'm tired of trying to squeeze. Let me just focus on my own shit." But then this came through and it was like, "Well, obviously you'll audition for this." And I was like, "Actually, yes, of course." But I just was like, "Oh, every gay comedian working right now is gonna audition for this. So like, I'm probably not gonna get it and that's okay." And then I did the audition and I got it and it was so cool and it was so nice of them to, Aline who wrote it and David who directed it, the original and the new one. Were both very, very kind to have me and I got to have fun with it and play around a little bit. And the only thing I can really say, of course, 'cause it's Disney and a secret, is that I will say as a fan, a genuine fan of the original, when I read the script for the second, I was like, "Oh, I actually really like this." So I think people, I genuinely from my heart think people will really like it. And I am not getting paid enough on the movie to lie. So don't worry, I'm not on the press tour. I'm the number one on the call sheet. I don't have an obligation to say this. I really genuinely believe it. But yeah, I'm excited about it. - I know, well, in an era where it's, everyone's like, "Oh, another sequel." This is actually one of the few where I was like, "No, no, no, let's run this back." - Yeah, let's open it up. - Yeah. - Yeah, I wanna see. - Did you meet Mother? Did you meet? - Yeah, we had a table and I met everybody, Mothers, Pearl. - Actually, no, Anna's giving auntie to me. She's not a mother yet. She's mother to a young gay, I think. - Okay. - Don't you think the way she dances at parties, is more auntie than mother? - Okay. - I'll accept it. I'll take either. - Okay. - She is so, she is so wonderful. She's like the nicest, warmest person. I literally, watching her operate on set, I'm like taking notes and being like, I need to be even more present. Like I need to lock in. She's so thoughtful and wonderful and lovely and like serious about her job in a beautiful way. But yeah, I'm really pro. I think like, the reason this one to me feels like we're all kind of excited about it, even though we're tired of the reboots and remakes, is they waited 20 fucking years and they got the whole original cast. Those are the two elements. You need to wait a very long time and you need to get the original players back in the thing. That's the thing that's missing. They're going like two months after a thing that just came out and doing it right away. It's like, give us some time to miss these characters, for God's sakes. - I think that's why Freaky Friday worked so well. The freakier Friday was so good. - Yeah. - Craig three times. - I did. - Again, she's going through it. - And I'm a hater. - We've got some other stuff going on. We've got time for Freaky Friday. - And I'm here for you and you can call me anytime. We're going to see you through this. Don't you worry. - Question. Has anyone done more for Kansas City than Taylor Swift? - Taylor Swift has been so good, so fun for Kansas City and so fun for football too. I really love, I've been saying this a lot. I really think any, as a man who cares about football and is always trying to get the girls and the gays interested. Now, some girls and gays are interested on their own, but a lot of my girls and gays are not. And I'm constantly trying to get them interested because I want them to watch it. I want them to watch with me and care. And I think it's fun. And I also think it's drama. Like what I don't do for reality TV, I'm doing with football. I know everyone's drama. I know who they too. I know what coaches are beefing. I know what players have just left because their contract was an insult. You know, I'm locked in on that in a way that's like Real Housewives kind of. - Totally. - But these men that are mad at Taylor Swift being at the games and like that she's getting so much attention or whatever. I'm like, you guys are dumb. Like, it doesn't matter if you like that she's there. It's a way to bridge the gap with the women in your life. Like this is an opportunity like your whole thing is being like, they never want to watch the game. They hate that I watched the game. It's like, this is an opportunity to bridge the gap and you're fucking blowing it because you're a loser. I think it's so cool. I'm like, this is fun. We can all like get excited about something together. You know? monoculture anymore so anytime that we can all have a reason to tune into something even if they're being like oh i'm here for taylor's boyfriend or whatever it's like fine that's awesome yeah that's awesome yeah let's participate how fun yeah yeah yeah so really quickly yeah speaking of um speaking of bisexuality no one was speaking about bisexuality but it's omnipresent um i was gonna say you're bi as in new york la new york kansas city in fact new york kansas city la all three or no i used to this is this is your right to be confused this is a very confusing thing thank you i type for a while i was between la and kansas city and then about a year and a half ago i got rid of my place in la and moved out here so now i'm back and forth between here and kc oh yeah oh never let them know your next move never always keep them guessing you're like bi coastal that's so last year no we're doing something it's a secret third thing yeah i do want to say something about bisexuals though yeah okay because here's what's happened i had like one bit about bisexuals years ago okay and then everyone started asking me about it over and over again right it became a thing that fans wanted to say and and what it really what it really came from originally was bisexual people were loving the bit right they were like i want i like that you're like giving it to us and then the tide has turned a little bit in like the last couple of months where there's a genuine faction of bisexual people that think i hate bisexuals for real and so i am sending the record straight on your podcast this is not true this is not true i'm kidding around everybody's gonna be fine i'm poking fun it kind of feels to me a little bit like the dyke faggot discourse where i'm like we simply have bigger fish to fry and i promise you you're gonna be fine yeah you're gonna be fine i'm gonna be fine we're good i love you come here like i just want everyone to chill about it because i'm like it really is i'm seeing like i got accused the other day of being someone accused me of being polyphobic and zionist i was like we're losing the plot a little bit because these things are not first of all the first thing's not even real and the second thing is demonstrably not my vibe you know what i mean it's like we gotta let's reign it in a little bit and you said something brave and true and real like polyphobic i'm starting another thing no no no but there is a true war on bisexuals right now in a way that like i think that they love the between like bisexual and lesbians like are you up to date with all the like betty who and like oh yes yes yes it's just like this discourse there there are just simply so many other things that we could talk about that's the thing too is i i felt i felt for her in that because people were like people were like well when you make yourself a lesbian icon it's like maybe you were just projecting too much under the stranger that you don't know and who she just had a door yeah like relax god forbid a woman undercut you wear a bow tie to three events and now you can't ever date a man again like knock it off it's out of my four hey three five four you're done yeah i'm like i do think everyone we would really benefit culturally politically societally spiritually in this moment from everyone taking three deep breaths and going you know just relax a little bit everyone is very uh activated right now on everything yeah and i'm like we have real things to be activated about everyone relax let's just chill out a little bit let's turn all this towards the billionaires let's let's let's take the the venom out of our words towards each other a little bit everything's gonna be fine you know what i mean let's just point this energy use it in the right direction towards the billionaires they really keep getting they keep getting away with it and i'm like we gotta start turning it towards those guys yeah and maybe we collectively three two one just one of those and that's on the artist yeah you know my shoulders they live up here every workout class i take they're like okay shoulders down please yeah isn't that crazy sometimes you'll just like clock your own posture the other day i was sitting and working on on my computer for a little bit and there was a genuine moment where i went like i took note of my body and this is how i was and i was like what are you doing like whoa dude like get up and stretch and maybe drink a glass of water what's going on with you it's always gonna be like me dehydrated as a source of many things or me being hungry me getting attitude because i simply have not eaten that's real though and you're real for it yeah you know how i am i do we've got about three i'm hungries before something changes before it's silent in here before hunter as a child with the clipboard comes out shit's not funny anymore yeah not a serious business it jumped from funny to very real very quickly yeah well thank you so much for coming on the pod thank y'all for having me i for the record i would have done this for a lot longer so just know if you ever want to have me back i'll do it again oh period and we do and we will um but where can people follow you and keep up with you oh you can uh you probably don't need to follow me on instagram i'm not doing much on there but if you i'm kind of active on the stories uh caleb says things on there and on tiktok and um you can watch my brand new hbo special model comedian right now if you want to perfect thank you thank y'all very much thank you well that's it for this week as usual we are two online so you don't have to be you know i'm gonna have to see one bottle after another again on 70 millimeter oh and i'll be there with you not eating in the theater that's what i'll be doing in a minute so i'll see you following us on socials at let me say this pod at pay index and at hunter h let me say this is hosted by me hunter harris and me pay index let me say this is a production of wondering yo it's the first time i talk let me say this yo i go off when i want let me say this yo oh my gosh yeah we love it too we hate it yo get your first i'ma talk let me say this let me say this production services by dcp entertainment for dcp the producer is ryan ronkema and the executive producers are adele coleman and alissa british our theme song is by scott velasquez for wondering our managing producer is taylor sniffen nick ryan is our senior managing producer our producer is kate young our senior producer is brian taylor white the executive producers are aaron rafflerity and marshall louis hi i'm nicole phelps global fashion news and features director at vogue and co-host of the run-through podcast each week on the show our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of vogue on tuesdays join me as i interview influential designers like calvin klein rachel scott and simone bellotti on thursdays join chloe mal head of editorial content at vogue us and choma nadi 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