Cacao Finds You: Motherhood, Art & Community with Sabine Betchard | S1 EP23

Welcome back to the conversations with Kakao podcast. I'm here with Sabine Bechard from countryside, campground, and caverns. She is a beautiful being a magical, mystical witchy, wise woman, and a Kakao facilitator, photographer, artist through and through, and I'm so excited to flow into this conversation with Sabine. And before we even start, as always, to make sure that we receive the information from this conversation to our highest good always, let's allow ourselves to drop into the present moment, allowing ourselves to touch back down into our heart, touching down into our bodies. Breathing from our minds all the way down into our hearts, starting with a deep breath in, and exhaling down into our heart, into our belly, allowing the mind to soften the thoughts to dissipate, taking another deep breath in, exhaling down into the heart space, down into the belly, allowing the mind to ground, your presence to ground, anything that happened before, allowing that to begin to melt away, anything that will occur in the future, just giving some space and allowing that to melt into the future, so that you can be present here and now, giving yourself the space and the time to arrive, to receive and to replenish. Taking another deep breath in, exhaling on sound this time, yeah, coming back into the body with our voices, with our presence, and opening up our feet, opening up our roots, to connect down into the heart of the earth, connecting into this planet that we are spinning on, connecting into the energy that supports us, that nurtures us, that gives us a space to call home, to explore our physicality, and allowing the energy of the earth, the energy that provides all of this abundance, the food, the waters, the life, allowing this energy to be into flow, into your feet, your legs, your hips, all the way into your root, into your lower dantiam, all the way into your solar plexus, and into your heart, allowing your heart to feel grounded, grounded, and safe, and present, and then elongating your spine, allowing your shoulders to roll back, your chin to lift gently, and your crown to reach towards the heart of the sky, connecting in with the heart of the sky, the heart of the stars, the heart of the moon, the heart of the sun, the heart of the cosmos, the solar system, and just trusting that the energies that support you, that are of love, that are of inspiration, of new thought, new perspective, of kindness, begin to flow into your crown, flowing into your mind and your brain, activating the lights and parts of your brain, flowing into your eyes that you may see clearly, that you may see your beauty clearly, your truth, your presence, your magic, flowing into your ears that you may hear, hear what is truly there, what is really being said, and allowing this energy to flow into your throat, that you may speak the words that resonate with your highest love, with your highest truth, breathing this into your throat, that your voice may express in the way that feels like freedom, allowing this energy to flow into your shoulders, your arms, your hands, awakening your hands of light, magical hands that create in this earth, breathing this energy down into the heart, opening up and softening the barriers that we may carry around our heart, filling up any wounds with loving grace, and then breathing this energy into the solar plexus, clearing away any spaces where we feel disempowered, and allowing our power to come home to us now, breathing down into our sacral area, allowing our creativity to begin to be restored, breathing this energy into our roots, into our root, into our hips, into our legs, into our knees, into our ankles, and feet, that we may walk in connection to our own truth, to our own magic, to our own essence, and then begin to bring this magic forth into the world, and just taking a few more cycles of deep breath in and out, feeling the connection to the earth, feeling the connection to the sky, feeling the connection to yourself, as we open the door to the spirit of cacao, we open the door to this beautiful medicine that is guiding us, and with us today, bringing our cups to our hands, and maybe we gaze into our cup, with presence visually taking in, this magical plant ally, maybe you feel the warmth in your cup in your hands, and he begins to soften yourself, allowing this warmth to move through you, and from the space of love, giving thanks to the heart of the earth, we give thanks to the heart of the sky, give thanks to the heart of the waters, and we give thanks to the heart of the fire, we give thanks to the four winds that we breathe in the four directions that hold us in every single moment, to the north, to the south, to the east, and to the west, giving thanks to the heart of the air, the air that we breathe in every moment, giving thanks to the heart of the east, and to the heart of the void, giving deep thanks to the ancestors and the many engines that we carry, physically, biologically, and also on a soul level, blessing all of our ancestors that came before us, all of our ancestors that will come after us, and allowing ourselves to be the bridge of consciousness that any patterns that no longer serve our lineage, our biology, our beliefs, that they end with us, and we alchemize them with beauty and grace for our future generations, connecting into the heart of Mama Kakao as we bless the sacred medicine, giving thanks to this beautiful spirit that is with us, that guides us, giving thanks to all of the guardians and protectors of this energy and of this plant, giving thanks to the farmers, the guardians and protectors of the lands from which Mother Kakao has come from, Kakao and your cup, blessing all of their families and all of the people who it took for this Kakao to be in your cup today, from the people who packaged like a cow, to those who shipped it, to those who delivered it to you, and just seeing this train of light, light up, all of this beautiful orchestration so that we can sit here today with this cup, and allowing that gratitude to begin to rise and awaken. I'm taking a few moments for any other blessings you wish to infuse into your cup, gratitude and love, and from your heart, filling the cups of all the people listening at this moment, seeing all of their cups filled with love, filled with joy and gratitude, and then sending our love to Sabine and filling her cup with all of our love that all of our listeners pass present and future fill up Sabine's cup, and then beaming our love to our previous listeners, filling their cup up with love and gratitude, and beaming our love to our future listeners, and seeing their cups be filled with love, and then in this moment, allowing yourself to receive that love into your very own cup, from the past listeners, from the present listeners, and from the future listeners. And maybe you feel into an intention, maybe Mama Kakao has a whisper for you today, a whispering of the heart, a whispering of the soul, and you can activate your cup with your breath, knowing that all of the magic, all of the energy within you, when you blow into your cup with intention, you begin to stimulate and play and dance and co-create with the energy of Mama Kakao, to let you all know exactly what to do, exactly what doors to unlock for you, in order to fulfill your intention, and when you're ready, taking your first sip, so yummy, welcome to the bean, and I would love to know if you have any intention for this call today, or for our listeners. What came through for me is ease. Yeah, yeah. Amplifying that out for our listeners, and my intention that comes through, it's just really that connection, that beautiful opening, and I feel it really in my solar plexus, so just trusting whatever that is, and however that moves through, that is created for us, for our listeners, for this conversation. So actually, thank you so much for being here today, for taking the time, for connecting, and you are beautiful. So we've been on this journey for quite a few years together now. So, Ben and I have co-facilitated for, I think it was almost two years, virtual German Kakao circles, and we did our Kakao facilitator training together, in Kakao laboratory, you've been on many, many Kakao laboratory calls together as well, and she is just a magical, magical, beautiful being with quite a story and a powerful voice, and I would love for you to share a little bit about yourself, so our listeners can get to know you a little bit more. Yeah, and how you came to work with Kakao too. Yeah, so before I have to see what, where my other dog is, come on, come on, come on. All right. Oh yes. I knew this is going to be a tricky one with the dogs. They're always by my side, and yeah, that brings me to a thing that my mom always said, there was no time where you've not been with animals. I've always had a pet, always had animals around me, and I always, when I wandered outside, I always looked for the animals as well, like wild animals, and yeah, went off trail just to see what I can find in the wilderness, and even as like young, never was scared of the woods, and always going outside, and that sticks with me till, you know, I always do that, going outside, discovering, and just recently I came across a theme with people that are scared of the outdoors, especially women. They don't feel natural or confident enough, or they have that fear of being alone in the woods, or going alone, even if it's a trail, and that started when I was holding space myself with women, that theme came up pretty often, like that kind of being scared, or that feeling of there's predator, even if it's like animals, or, you know, a man, or something, like scary things, and yeah, that was something that came up for me when I was holding circles that alone, part, and that kind of fear of the outdoors, that it's not normal for people to go outside and going into the woods by themselves, which I always thought was very normal, but it's not. So yeah, so that's a little bit about me growing up, just having that confidence in nature, always felt more at home, or more myself, probably, than at home, where it was chaotic. I moved a lot, even if it was in the area itself, we moved, but we moved a lot. My mom, I grew up, she, she always searched for that perfect partner, and then it was not, and then moving, and we at kids always went along, and so it was chaotic, it was not really home home, it was always some other place, and so, but nature was always something that I could rely on, I guess, so I went outdoors a lot, and luckily I grew up in the 80s and 90s, where it was really common for kids to go outside and come back when it gets dark, you know, so yeah, moved a lot, and then, I guess, always felt a little bit off, different maybe from others. Yeah, still have that at times, this feeling of differences, different mind, maybe different viewpoints, and lately I've been touching on the theme of loneliness, what that actually means, and I really, really have this kind of awakening that a lot of people feel alone, and I want to study that a little bit more why, and what can we do to make people not feel alone no more, with their like outlook of nobody understands me, but you have to understand yourself first until you can actually feel like you're understood by others, so yeah, so that's a bit, yeah. Yeah, you thank you for sharing, and I think you touched on some really big themes there, of like feeling a safety, a safety within nature, and that expression, and loneliness, and just traveling around, how do you create that safety when you're constantly moving, right? And I'm not sure what direction we're feeling into, going into more, I can reflect that I definitely have had that sensation of I wanted to feel safe, you know, in going out by myself, but there is always that little bit of like the back of my mind, like you gotta stay, you gotta be on the alert, you gotta like who knows what's there, because there's so much just saturation in the media and in stories, and like these things and horrible things that can happen, and but I've also known other women that don't have that, like wounding or scarring at all, and still training that and retraining that, and a lot of that comes for me into like being physically confident in my body, you know, like can I, can I show up and defend myself, like making sure that I'm strong enough, um, physically, but also just mentally trusting, like I trust nature, I think that's the thing, like I trust nature, I just don't necessarily trust women. Yeah, yeah, I'm curious about like what came up for these women as well, is that more of the fear of nature, or is it the fear of the unknown, is it the fear of humans? Yeah, it is, I think it is, the unknown, I mean nature is very unpredictable as well, I mean, I haven't literally in the outside just to see wild animals, where others are you serious? I mean here, we just moved more north, we moved from Illinois, where I was like 19 years, we moved more north into Michigan, and apparently there are black bears around here, and I had a forester come out to our property, just to have a talk with him, what he sees, what, what, um, trees and what we could do, and all that stuff, and then he saw a lot of blackberries on our nature trail, and we were walking like that's a lot of blackberries, it's like yeah, it's like don't be surprised if you see a black bear once, and I was like are you serious? I was like yeah, it's like they are very skittish though, so maybe you will not see them, but they are around, and they like berries, you know, and now every time I walk the nature trails like I'm not gonna see one, you know, but all this is like I'm not gonna walk that trail ever again, every like noise maybe, that's the thing too, I was trying or introducing holding space here at the campground, and I did that in September because September is not as busy, and so I thought okay let's, let's try it, the first one I was alone, nobody came, which was actually pretty, pretty good, but the second Saturday I had two come, and one was a little bit late, we were waiting for her there, like our seasonals, and she was like I didn't know where this space was, this spot, so she walked the whole nature trail, and she said she was walking really, really fast, because every like there's noises, you know, and I was like by myself just thinking it's really interesting to me, like it's natural to hear noises, but of course you see, you hear like a crack maybe, or like you hear certain things, it's like what is that, I can't see it, what is it, who does these noises, and I was watching this video the other day, this woman had a raven as a pet or companion, I guess, yeah ravens you can't have as pets, they're free birds, but companion, and she was saying that ravens are really really good at mimicking sounds, so the story is about these woods where you hear voices, like these myth stories or whatever, they're probably the ravens doing these noises, you know, and I was like thinking it's like yeah of course, yeah ravens, the tricksters, yeah, the birds are the ones of humor, yeah, but it is, is this like when you hear something, it's like what was that, you know, I can't see it, it's the unknown, you don't know how to react, if it's something, you know, it's like, it's always that what if factor of course, yeah, and I don't know, maybe it is the detachment for us, women especially, from nature that we actually, we are very natural when we allow ourselves to be authentic in ourselves, we are matching really really well with mother earth and nature, the trees and the wind and all, everything, the waters, and I guess that has been for generations a little bit detached from us, and so there's also fear of if I am in nature, maybe I get, I don't know, bad words or whatever, oh you can't do this, or why, or when we go more back into the history, you got punished for being nature, I guess, and that's probably still in our bones, yeah, the witch wound, right, that space of if you're too connected or using plants or herbs or you have a cat, yeah, and I think there's also that space of just understanding and knowing your local environment, like what to do in those situations, I know I'm one that knows a fair amount about where I live and everything, but sometimes I can be a little naive going into situations where I was in California last year with my partner, and we were, there was a nature trail, like let's wake up early, let's go on the nature trail, let's walk, and I know that they have rattlesnakes, and they also have mountain lions, and those are things that we don't have in New York, I'm not used to being around those, and we were about to start the walk, and I'm like I'm so excited, and then you see the sign for like watch out mountain lions, or could be around, you know, and it was dawn, so that's usually the time when they're probably a little bit more active, and I'm about to like start walking on the trail, my partner is like, oh wait, hold up, do we know how to handle ourselves in the situation, like what do we do if we actually come across a mountain lion, I'm like, that'll be fine, we're not going to see one, it'll be good, let's just like go for the trail, and he's like, I don't know, maybe we should like research it a little bit more, and I'm like yeah, we just have to act like real big, like let's go, it'll be fine, and those moments where I'm like okay, maybe it is good to have that mindset of familiarity with your environment and how to approach it, like not all bears are built the same, black bears are kind of like big dogs, they're more skittish, they're a little more scared, but grisly bear, that's it, you know, a chance, I think knowing your environment and what actually lives there could really help clear up some of the fear that is there, and I know for me personally, I grew up in Austria, I mean, you grew up in Switzerland, and hiking in the mountains there, I'm always like, I always feel so good, hiking in the Alps, and like the rocks, the different terrains that are in Austria, and I'm like, yeah, just feel really safe, like I could just be free and walk around, and it was only like two summers ago, and I feel a little bit silly that I had such a late realization, but it's like, wait, what animals actually live here? I'm like, I don't think there are any predators on these mountains, that's probably why I feel a little bit more safe, and I was looking into it more, I was researching it more, and I was talking to more, you know, locals and Austrians, and they're like, yeah, because they've all been hunted off, so that's why there are no more predators in the certain regions, and I was like, oh, that's not necessarily the approach we want to take to being in nature, but it is interesting in the mindset especially for the way I felt in certain parts of nature, you know, where that wild, unpredictable part isn't there, and it's a little bit easier to be in that space, but is that necessarily the environment that we want to cultivate on our earth? I'm not sure if there's, if you have a reflection on that, or if we want to go in that direction. I've been always fascinated by wilderness, and I remember when I moved here 20 years ago, it's such a difference with the wilderness, even though I was south of Chicago, like maybe 45 minutes south of Chicago, we were right by a forest preserve, and of course, yeah, Switzerland, these regions, nice clean woods, you know, they always take care of everything, and you see maybe once in a while little, you know, salt and hopping across, but yeah, you wouldn't, you wouldn't see or think about predator, but man, when I moved here, it was wild to see like animals have never seen, like I've only always saw a raccoon in like maybe a nature TV show, whatever, cute little raccoons. Nowadays, I'm like, I, well, they've killed a lot of my chicken side, like the raccoons, like stay away, but in the beginning, he's like, what the raccoon? And other things like the snapping turtle, we were right by water, and I didn't know about that creature at all, and my husband was like, coming out, we've just moved to that house, and I thought it was like a little dinosaur, it was like, and he was like the snapping turtle wanted to get in our garage, and my husband was like pushing it back with a pushroom, like on the shell on top, and it was like trying to snap, and I was like, what is this? It's like, that's a snapping turtle, it just wanted to show it to you because don't get close to them, so I had to really also get familiar with like the poison ivy and stuff, which I had no clue about until it, I really had to learn about it the hard way that were so, like it was really, really wild. The nature preserve, you can't really walk through because everything is like so overgrown, and yeah, it was really wild, and of course the winter too, there gets really, really cold, and I grew up not in the mountains, I grew up somewhere below in Switzerland, but it's not really, really, really cold, and so it just the harshness, the wilderness, it was just like, whoa, and the coyotes that you hear at night sometimes, and all of these things were really wild, that is the wild wild west, you know, and it got to me really, really strongly, I also went two years ago, I think we went the same time, you went to Austria, I was in Switzerland, Germany, visiting my mom as well, she's right at the lower part of Germany, where the black forest is like the southern part of the black forest, and I was with her like two weeks, and she moved to this place not too long ago, she was surrounded by woods, very beautiful area, and I was just going into the woods, going around because I knew there were wild boars, and I never seen a boar before, you know, it's like, maybe I see one, like, psych, of course, silly, it's like, what do I do if I encounter a boar, but that forest was just absolutely quiet, it couldn't hear anything except for maybe crows or ravens and birds maybe, but it was so quiet, and I went, of course, off trail, like I always do, and there were like spider webs, and I was like, where are the animals, where is the life, and it was so bizarre, and that's when it hit me, like, thinking back, did I really come across a lot of animals when I grew up? Not really, not as much as I was here, but there it was just absolutely quiet, where are the animals, and I saw tracks of the boar where they were digging, I was like, where are you guys, where are the deer, and she has, like, a balcony overlooking, like, a field, and into the woods, and I would sit in the morning just to see, it's like, do I see a deer once, it's like, I've never, ever seen, in those two weeks, I've not seen any, and I was like, what is this, and I went into the woods with my drum, just drumming, because it's also the area with the most witch burnings there, I felt that too, kind of, and so I was just into the woods, into the regions, singing and drumming, and getting a little bit of prayer back, and kind of this feminine feel, and then I came back home, and in that week, I climbed up my tree, I had like a tree in the backyard, where I built like a little sitting area on top in the morning, I was sitting there, and there was like a coy wolf, it was not a wolf, it was not a coyote, it was, from the size, it was like a coy wolf, beautiful white fur, and I was sitting on top of my tree, and there he was, this wild creature, just walking by underneath me, walking by, and you had that after feeling, and that's the feeling, I'd probably chased all my life, like that feeling of awe and inspiration, like that wow, and he was just listening, and then he was going along, and in that week, I saw the deer, you know, the deer, in the woods, and of course the chipmunks and the squirrels, even that I didn't see where my mom lived, or also where my friend lived in Switzerland, I didn't see any creature, and I was like, what does that mean? It felt really something is talking to me, some synchronicity, some, I was like, okay, what does that mean? Why was it quiet? Why didn't I encounter any animals? And really, wherever I go, there are animals, always been surrounded by animals, but why was it so quiet over there? And then when I came home, there was this beautiful creature, and the deer, and the chipmunks, and this and that, and the turtles, and the beavers, and all those creatures that surrounded our, our property is like, that is just wild, and I'm, yeah, fascinated by it. Yeah, still searching for the answer for that, I don't know why that was so, it really felt like something was shown to me, with this, I'm still looking for the answer there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious, like, feeling into the two energies, because, you know, we're both lived in North America for a very long time, and have a significant amount of time, and a specific region in Europe, and they do feel very different, and just the way of life is very different. Yeah, I don't have any answers to that either, but I feel it, and I feel the question too, and what is that, and also the relationship of the humans to the land. I'm really not familiar with that many, like, indigenous traditions for the Austrian region, or what that even looks like, it feels very agricultural, and they pride themselves in their connection to the food, and the land, and farming, and I feel like there's a lot of still really deep connection to that aspect, and when I was studying and living in Austria, I knew a lot of friends who went into agriculture, and I know a lot of farmers through Austria. So there is that connection, but it's like, but what's underneath that, and I haven't dug enough into the history there, but it feels like a long time, whereas growing up on Long Island, there is, even though I'm not enough, conversation around Native American tradition, and the Native American lands that Long Island was really saturated with this history, but it is spoken about more, and there is a deeper connection and understanding. I feel like an awareness, you know, that I had the privilege of receiving within my education. Yeah, how is that for you in Switzerland? Do you know of any deeper roots or where that comes from? No, I actually, that's funny that you mentioned this because the other day, I think two or three days ago, even I looked up German, like German tribes or whatever, how did that look like? I mean, yeah, you could see it as maybe a lot of Nordic traditions, maybe. There's like influences or some similarities, but I don't think we can trace it back. How did it look like? The Black Forest, I mean, magical space, and I was listening once to a podcast, and I couldn't find it no more. I don't know who it was in German, and there was this woman that studies these kinds, like cultures and stuff like that, and she was giving some information, and she said that the woods, of course, the forests were the church spaces, like those those those spaces, and she said a lot of, and that was a really interesting point, because I've always been fascinated by the Native Americans, always felt like a kind of a connection maybe, or fascinated when I was like maybe 10 or 11 or 12, I had like braids, always like this, you know, and I had like stuff, like leather things on sometimes, like totally fascinated. And she mentioned that a lot of German speaking, like Switzerland, Austria, Germany, they have a fascination by that, they feel like maybe they've been in a previous life, something, or they have like this kind of connection, and it's not maybe a previous life, or it's not just because maybe you feel connected, it's something that lives within us, and has been at one point, with the drumming especially, and I believe that when she said that, drumming, I believe in those woods, there were drumming going on in music and dances, and the fires were roaring, I mean, yes, there are ancient traditions still in Switzerland, Austria and Germany, where they have these bonfires in a mean something, especially when you go from winter to spring, a lot of regions there have their traditions, and it involves fires, but what is like back, back, back, back, you know, how did it look like back, back, and it really clicked in me, it's like, huh, America, like the U.S., and all the regions here, south to north, they are native still that practice, it's not as long long, it's still like here, so to see here, maybe even smell or taste, that wakes something up, yeah, and I thought that was really interesting, but I couldn't find, you can't probably find a lot of how it was in the German region, in Europe at that time, yeah, it's super fascinating, I'm like, like, now I need to know more, like, what we, if any listeners have information please, put it in the comments, contact us, we'd love to know more, yeah, very, very rich, I know just from knowing you personally too, and I think people can feel your energy of this like deeply connected to the animals and the shamanic realm and your animal guides, and that which she wisdom, I'm curious, how did you start working with Kakao? Well, that, that was an interesting thing, it was not too long ago, I mean, 2021, early, it was winter, and I, when it really, really is cold in winter, and we were living on water, on like a lake, kind of, a little lake, but when it was re-freezing over, I was always fascinated by by the ice, always went on the ice, and the ice makes like sounds when the sun comes out, yeah, it has like, it just fascinated me, and so I started to build ice eagles on that lake, when it was really, really cold, and not every winter was the same, it had to be frozen, and then you wait until it's safe to go on it, and then I would freeze cups, like plastic cups that I always reused again, and I used food coloring to get the different colors, and so my ice eagles were like always very colorful, and yeah, 2021, that winter was really, really cold for long stretch, so I was building an ice eagle, and every ice eagle was always a little bit different, and then I used like, all the shapes to decorate the ice, really nice, and then of course, at night, when you have a lamp in there, I would glow, and I had that, that thing I always did myself, no one would come, and I was fine, I was like totally in the zone, and it was, it's cold, you build hours on end, and you don't think it's gonna end, it's like, why did I start this again? Why do I do this to myself again? In the wilderness, you know, because it really felt like totally, somewhere completely different, that lake was surrounded by woods, so it really felt like I am somewhere completely different, like totally in the wilderness, alone, building a shelter, so to say, and so I was there, and when you finish building something like this, you have that overwhelm of joy, but with that comes then also maybe a downfall, and I was sitting in the eagle, it was done, and of course with the sunshine, it's like beautiful in there, and to have a little bit shelter of the wind as well, so I was in there, and all of a sudden I looked beside me, and I was like, where is the person that should be sitting with me here, not that I was thinking about my husband or my children, but where is, you know, that woman or that friend or that somebody, and we could like toast with something, you know, I was like, yeah, we did it, oh, this is awesome, and I had the total mental breakdown in that igloo, and I was actually speaking out loud, I was crying, I was like total in the, you know, there was ice underneath me, the element of water, element of water all around me, and I believed to this hate, and it was like an amplifier, a ripple effect with this, a portal space, so to say, and I was like, I feel alone, you know, where is my community, where is the community, where, you know, I don't want to feel alone no more, and so, yeah, I feel emotionally, even like sitting there again, like with that, yeah, I was unbelievable, just the emotion, and then shortly after that, maybe a few weeks after, I watched a German tarot reader online on YouTube, and she was just talking, Lenin, she was saying, yeah, I was at a Kakao ceremony the other day, and it was so beautiful, blah, blah, Kakao ceremony, I mean, I know what Kakao is, I'm from Switzerland, you know, exactly country, was like, what is, what is that, and it hit something in me, it's like, I need to investigate, so I was listening to her, then I went to the channel that her friend had, I was like, whoa, and then I learned about, you know, South America, it's like, I always thought it came from Africa, the chocolate originated from Africa, but it's not, it's like, what the heck, and then I felt so interested in, and I was like researching, and then I got my first Kakao from Kakao laboratory, so I was comparing a certain things, and I chose them, I felt like drawn to order from there, and I got my first Kakao, of course, I had nothing to really mix it, and I was just going along with like a fork or something, then I had still crumbs in it, and it was not really mixed well, and I was in my little sunroom that I always was in the morning, and I took my first sip and I was laughing so hard, I had like, something on my face, because I was doing this, I think from the, from from something that I like from the candle or something, on the clumps in the Kakao and all, and I just started laughing, I had like that laugh that came out, it's like, oh my god, but I had that instant like, joy feel, the connection with with the Kakao, I was like, wow, and I knew exactly, this needs to be shared, that instant feel of, I need to learn, first off, I need to learn more, I need to respect this plan, because from the start I knew, it was something really ancient, and something that you cannot just use to get to this joy moments, which some places do, but I felt compelled to learn the history and also get permission to actually share it, but from the first cup, I knew, this needs to be shared, I need to learn, practice, and go deeper with it, so I'm able to share it in a, in a good way, and yeah, that was all in 2021, and in that fall we were both in that facilitation, 12-week course from laboratory, Kakao laboratory, yeah, where we learned all about history, and of course the calendar that is very attached to it as well, and learned some songs, the Ikaro, that we are permitted to actually use, which is very, like that stuff is very like touching as well, to get permission to actually do this, because I'm always, I've never had that moment yet, that somebody says, but you're from Switzerland, why are you doing this, you know, I'm yet like, have to prepare maybe for some comments, but um, the other course was, was super encouraging to go deeper, because it opens you up even more so to go deeper and learn and, and go with the plant, and yeah, that's, that's about the, the, the history how I came to be with the icy glue, and the loneliness, and it taught me like, I'm not alone, you know, that year was super potent, because something opened up, with, with actually connecting with a plant like this, for the first time, opened up whole new ways to see actually tree or something, or something, and the synchronicities that year were insane, yeah, that was super insane, also the, the year after I, I was just pounded by signs and synchronicities, and I felt not alone no more, you know, it's like, wow, and I met a lot of people that year as well, all of a sudden I had like groups, and even if it was online, but also in the region, all of a sudden, I met people that were actually close to me, all of a sudden, where were you guys, it's like all of a sudden, it opened some, yeah, but I'm not sure that I knew that story in that, in that extent, or to that depth, I, I love, it's like you created your own cave, you know, to create, and then how you said, you know, you're surrounded by water, but it's like the frozen water, it's the, it's the water that's trapped in the emotion, and then it's almost like this beautiful metaphor that you offered it up to these waters, they absorbed it, and then as the water began to melt and become flow again, it's like all of these people could flow into your life too, and the same with cacao, I love the metaphor of, you know, it becomes this, we go through all this processing, adding all of the elements, acknowledging all of the elements to the creation from being to to bar, the chocolate that we're using, and then it becomes this hard paste, and then we make it smaller, we put our intention into the chopping, and then we add the warmth, the heat, and begin to melt it again, so that it's like the softening of the heart, this melting that begins to happen within us too, and just like, you know, she's master weaver, master plant weaver of bringing people in together, and the synchronicity, and the flow, and and just the beauty of your story, and thank you for sharing with that vulnerability, because I think, you know, a lot of people can relate to that being in that space, and just the aloneness, like what does that mean, that loneliness that we feel, and I definitely feel and have felt in my life, and like, where do I stand, why do I feel so disconnected, and sometimes even still working, and having worked with various plant medicines, and mom cacao for many years, and like, you know, even a couple of weeks ago, why do I still feel a little bit of that loneliness in me too, and I'm curious, because you mentioned this in the very beginning, as you're opening into the space of the loneliness that you were seeing, and this new environment that you're in, and if you want to speak to that a little bit too, and maybe your journey with it as well. Yeah, so like I mentioned, I think a lot of people feel this way, like I'm different, I don't belong, I'm invisible, maybe, like all these thoughts, like I'm different, so I am not accepted, I am different, so I have to match myself to my environment, so the authenticity goes a little bit away, or you hide it like yourself, and that's very alone, that's a lonely, lonely place to be in, to not live your authenticity, and I've always been like somewhere here and somewhere there, sometimes I'm really explosive, and totally, totally myself, and maybe I don't think what, but others might think, or maybe I just want to test myself, see how it feels in that space, or I just always did what I thought I was like drawn to, a very intuitive person always was, so I do as I go along, like the shaping happens as I go, and but still, like that thought of, I am different, so I am not perfect maybe, or where do I fit in to spaces, all of these things, I think a lot of people have that, a lot of people, and I feel like it points to the community aspect, the help, and being seen from others as you are, which I think was also lost over many, many hundreds of years, I think, you see it by indigenous communities, they have rituals for so many things, and a baby is born, and that's one part also, a lot of new moms are super alone, they feel so alone, and are terrified if they are again pregnant, and then it's like, oh no, not again, you know, going through it again, and I also like had that awakening with one of my circles, I was holding, there was one mom, she was pregnant, she already has a child, and she was breaking down just the opening of the heart, with the plan, with the space we were in, she didn't expect that would happen, but she just, I don't want to be alone no more, and I was like listening up because I felt very alone, and I think that's a theme too, new moms just feel totally alone, even if they have a partner or a family, it's just, I think there is a part missing that we don't do no more, the initiation of a new mother and the celebration of new life, the helping out when you think about indigenous communities, like the women holding the baby, everybody holds the baby, everybody feeds the family, it's like very natural to help out and be a community, but nowadays you just have to beg somebody, I don't want to think about making dinner, I can't, you know, you have to keep it up still as a woman, getting to know yourself in this new role, and then you have to ask others, can you bring me a meal, or you don't even do that, and you have to figure it out, and that's just a lot, so that's one thing I came across, it's like that the rituals or the community aspect, something is just missing nowadays, with even, you know, becoming a woman also, there's so many traditions where it is common to go through a beautiful ceremony to actually welcome it, and here we are, shying away, or not liking it, hiding it, when we become women, it's not something, oh wow, you are stepping into something new, and learning through cow and all these traditions and all these things is like, where did we trail off here, where did we trail off, and love listening to podcasts and such that are actually talking about the different stages in life, and as we celebrate and going into something new, and being actually seen by others, we see ourselves getting to know ourselves, I guess you aren't the something there, yeah right? I brought in a really, I think, powerful point there of two of speaking about the different phases of a womanhood in that there are certain parts that are just rejected, like we have the maiden, the mother, and the crown, and I feel like there's still even this part, I feel like there's the maiden, the mother, the queen, and the crown, like we move through four different phases as well, that what comes to mind is the image, the painting, that is quite well known from, from Klimt of the mother and her newborn baby, for those of you who know the image, you probably only know the mother and the baby that are resting together, she's holding that in the corner, what's usually cropped out is the crown, she looks very, you know, she's old, she's not beautiful, but even within our society, we cropped that part out, it's like we only look at what is youthful, it is beauty, but the aging process and what that actually looks like, what does it look like to be the crown, and the the matric of the family, but also what does it mean to be the maiden, what does it mean to be the mother, and those rights of passage as you were saying, it's like is kind of missing from the, at least the, the way that I grew up, I didn't really have those conscious transitions, or they were, I felt like shame around them, or I didn't feel really comfortable with it, I didn't really have the support to help me through those, those phases within my life, and the way that I felt like maybe I needed, but now there are so many women also that are shifting that narrative, that are enacting and creating ritual around that, celebrating the moon time, celebrating, becoming the woman, and also the right of passage as a mother, and I think there's a big part of recognizing, you know, birth as a sacred passage into motherhood, and the, the vaginal birth, the natural birth is a big part of that too, and I know from the mothers that I've spoken to that there is this, this energy of like, you know, when you have an emergency cesarean, or whatever may happen some complications that sometimes they feel like their birth was taken away from them, but it's like, but I'm, I have to be grateful, because I was in danger, where the child was in danger, and so yes, I am grateful, but there is this grief like maybe I didn't birth right, or I didn't birth the best way I could have, or, and then there's healing around that, and, and just the recognition and the knowledge that like most of the cesareans can be avoided as well, because they're, there's just such a lack of knowledge and like scheduling the cesareans, and how, how much more healing and stress the body goes through with a cesarean versus a natural birth, and all the stigma around both of them, and there's just a lot to begin to clean up and uncover, and at least there's, you know, there's this influx of doulas and midwives coming in, and I know that you've held some blessing ways, and these creating space for the right of passage for the mother to feel held, for child to feel held, and coming back into that matriarchal lineage of, wait, I am in my power, I do have my power, what is my sovereignty? Yeah, and I, I was really lucky, because I had an amazing midwife, I was very stubborn, and my beliefs are on birth, and I was like, I do not accept that it has to be painful, I do not accept these narratives, and I was, you know, young and 22, and I was like, no, this is not going to be my story, and I, I found hypnobirthing, I also saw orgasmic birthing at that time, but I wasn't quite there yet, and, and then I found a midwife, and I had both sides, I had my gynecologist, and I had my midwife, and when I would leave my gynecologist, I felt like it was the end of the world, I felt scared, I felt like if I made the wrong choice, they're going to take my baby away for me, I felt like all of this fear, and then I leave my midwife, and I felt so empowered, and I felt like everything was going to be okay, and she was really the one, the first woman in my life that I experienced, that was like, no, that's your choice, like you have to come into your power, like, you're going to be a mom, you're going to have to make these decisions, I can't, I can't tell you, and it was the first point where I was like, oh wow, I can't delegate my decision-making, like I, I'm responsible for this, this is, this is my power, this is my sovereignty, and she would just hold the mirror and just be like, you have power, use it, like what, what do you choose? So I'm so, so grateful for that beautiful light being who is just so calm, cool, collected, steady, grounded, we all need those women in our lives, and we need to become those women if we feel called it, we don't mean to, there's no pressure. Yeah, totally, it's like, you know, it's, it's a scary thing, a powerful woman, right, that knows herself, and maybe we can even link it now again, so the wilderness be a feeling comfortable in your own skin, be an actually capable and going outdoors, be an in those spaces, making your own decisions, it's very powerful, and actually also reaching and being in contact again with that deep wisdom that we all carry, and that power, that we know actually deep within, that we can do stuff that is just mind-blowing, yeah, through, through birth, I mean, my first, I was in the hospital, I mean, we weren't still new here in the U.S., and I knew I wanted to have a natural birth, but in the hospital, you get hooked up to something, there, there's no way you can wish for it, it's just not, and that uncertainty that they push on you, that, like, it is painful, or this, that can happen, so you must do it this way, instead of bringing, no, it's your body, humans have done that for thousands of years, trust your body, it's not really something that, that they encourage women to do, so you are in the hospital, but I had a moment there with my first, and I had a fast birth, like, very unsuspect, fast birth, and all of a sudden, everybody was in a rush, and the doctor was not here because they thought, "Oh, it's gonna be for hours and hours, and you know, but it was really, really fast." And so it's really, with, I think it's called the Tosimo Sodom, where, you know, it's like something that gets you going, and it gets, and that increases, of course, the pain as well, because it's not the natural kind of rhythm that you're in, so I felt totally, like, bare to this, it's like, "Okay, I cannot go back, there's no help, nothing, but I had a moment where I pushed, and there was this moment of total power, just a little tiny moment where the pain was gone, and a total power came over me through pushing, and I was, like, preparing for the birth as well, all through the pregnancy, I was doing, like, strengthening, and all these kind of things, and I felt that I was prepared, but that total power, like, I could rip out trees, that's how it felt like, like, you know, where is that coming from, but it was just a glimpse of that, just a little, like, tiny glimpse, and it still stayed with me, I mean, with my second child, we also went to the hospital, I had a different doctor, I didn't had it there, because still you are in an environment where you are not, you don't, you have to be in bed, you cannot get up, you are not allowed to move, all of these things, just damn, I think it puts a damper on your own power, but that glimpse is like, where is that coming from, that power, that is, that is salt melts, and when I listen to, like, stories of women giving birth in a natural way at home, which is, luckily, more and more, like, I have friends that have birthed at home, and there's more and more midwives, like, it is something that's coming back, which is so beautiful, but that's just the stories, it's like, just like, that ease, I can do this, totally that knowing, and then actually doing it with that power of ripping out trees, like, I was like, wow, I was like, yeah, I hope this wave is, is keep on going, like, that wave to going back to your own authentic knowing, I guess, your own power and strength, yeah, it's going to shape a lot of things, if that's continuing, it's like that silent wave, and that you can see also in other things, how the kids grow up now with people that actually do these things, the kids go through childhood a different way, there's more and more now, the other schools, or homeschooling, became a lot more, when my kids were about to go to school, I was like looking for a four-school or something, nothing, had no choices, nothing, and now there's a four-school, I was like, why didn't that come when my kids were about to go to school, but it was so awesome to see, it's like, wow, a four-school, wow, and it's that silent wave, I see it as a silent wave, that is like, not talked about much, but it is there, like, that people claiming back their natural things, or really, like, it's like, you know what, this is not feeling authentic, or not feeling right, we have to get back to nature, and we have to get back to community, helping each other out, and teaching that to our kids as well, yeah, yeah, I have to recognize I'm a little bit in a bubble in my world, because I talk to, like, all of those scenes are very present in my life and my circle and the people that I talk to, and sometimes I have to, like, really pull myself out and recognize, like, wait, there is actually a lot of people who don't know the things that I just accept as reality, or what, you know, the way that is easy to do, or, and recognizing that there is still really that information that needs to reach more and more people, so, recognizing, okay, yes, maybe I need a step out of my bubble a little more, but that what you're saying of, you know, this new generation raising different kinds of kids, I saw it, I had a Halloween or a costume party from my daughter yesterday, and we were outside, it was a gorgeous day, we have these, there's this really beautiful park nearest that has, like, this really nice, foresty area that you can run and play, and, and my daughter, like, organized the event, she's 10, she's like, I want to create these leaf boats, and I want to put the leaf boats together, and then I want to make leaf boxes, so she had all our friends, and our friends were listening, you know, their boys and girls, both there, and she's like, all right, it's a final leaf, take another leaf, and she goes through the whole thing, and then she's like, all right, now get another leaf, and get some acorns, and put it in, and create a little box, and she's like, and then once you create the box, she's like, find a tree, everybody find a tree, and so they all find a tree, and she's like, all right, then open your box up a little bit, so that the squirrels can then have, like, a little gift for them to take the acorns out of, and part of me, like, with my 90s, upbringing, conditioning, and like, I really hope, like, kids don't think this is lame, or like, they're gonna say something, like, I'm afraid for my daughter, like, trying to, like, uh, but I'm like, open, and they're, and all the kids, and the boys are, like, oh, this is really cool, like, and then once you said, like, and then it's a gift for the squirrels, and he's like, ah, this is really fun, this is really cool, and it's like, it was just sweet to see their interaction and environment, of course, you know, they're from a Waldorf school, so they have a very different upbringing, and then watching them on the obstacle course too, like, she said this obstacle course up on the, um, on the, like, playground, and so encouraging of one another, they're like, you can do this, one kid was struggling, they're like, why do you go behind me and watch me how I do it, and see where I pump my feet, and they're like, why do you try it this way? And then one kid's like, you just got to believe in yourself, you kind of believe that you can do it, and it's like, so heartwarming to see all the kids, like, team building, working together, giving each other another chance, um, and then I was talking to one of the other moms who actually doesn't go to the school, and at home schools, but has a lot of interaction with, like, a different group of parents, and she's like, wow, it's really refreshing to see and be around these kids, because I'm around so many kids that actually really aren't respectful, and the parents like are not really that nice or not nice to talk to, and just having that perspective too of like, oh yeah, this community is great, and these kids are having so much love, and the impact that they can now have as they grow up on the earth, but then there's still more work to do, like, there's still other areas that we need to reach out to in order to maybe create a little bit more of that sense of safety in the world, you know, that kids feel safe enough to express and play and support each other, and where it's not about, you know, competition and cutting each other down, but it's really about uplifting each other, and how can we work together, that everybody finishes? Yeah, so there's some reflections, not really a question there, but I'm curious maybe from your experience, because your kids do go to public school and what that was like for them, even though you would have wished for a forced school. Well, it was kind of interesting, because I went to school in Switzerland, so I had no clue over here, like, so when we chose where we would move to, the boundary of that one school, the district, was different, so when we moved, it was a certain way, where we knew the elementary school is there, but then they changed the boundary, and then it would have been in another town over, which was like, there's no way we're going to send our kids there, so it was about then looking for some, and really like four minutes from us was a Catholic school, really tiny, surrounded by fields, so they had an open house, so we went there, and we kind of fell in love, especially with preschool. It was really like tiny, like small setting, and that's how I grew up, like my preschool experience was just one school room with one teacher from first grade to fifth grade, and we were just 13 kids, so 12, 13 kids, and it's tiny setting, and I was like, yeah, I want to send our kids there. Of course, they were then in a Catholic school, so you have that relation part, but I was like, hey, you know, they learn stuff, they can then make up their own minds about things, but what you get in that school is more like helpfulness from, like in a private school, mothers or the parents are very involved, you have like all the parties or whatever in the school class, when there is like Halloween parties or whatever, like parents are very involved in it and helping out, and yeah, it's not uncommon to have like the parents just come in and helping out or whatever, so I was also very involved, which is pretty good for a kid too, going to school, and the parents actually are involved with certain things that is happening in the school, so that was a good part, but then we had to change to public school, eventually because they didn't really had help for special education, so there was nothing, and our youngest has like ADHD, he has my kind of brain with dyslexia as well, so and that stuff goes always a little bit together, runs a little bit together, that stuff, not being able to concentrate, or not sitting still, or having just another viewpoint, or the processing, didn't run as smooth as the other kids, so when you sit down with the principal or with teachers every year and they ask you, have you been thinking of maybe medication, and when I get these things it's like, well, we first need to see what we could do, you know, to open him up a little bit to the lessons, and I did had him tested, and I had paperwork for where he should sit in the classroom, all these recommendations, but they wouldn't do that, so why would I give him medication, if you don't look actually on the recommendations of somebody that actually tested him on the things, so we knew we had to go to public school and public school, and that area there was really, really good with interventions and all that stuff, they went then to public school, our oldest was going into middle school that time, and he was totally, he enjoyed that, he wanted to have that big school experience, and it was a big school, he wanted to have that, he was done with the tiny settings, and the Catholic school there was a little bit under, how do you say that, like the girls kind of girl orientated, so like preferred girls, so when the boy did something, you could feel the difference how they would approach the girls versus the boys, and he was, I have wild kids, like my boys are wild, so I saw that, that they are preferring girls, and there was a difference, and he was done, he wanted to get out, he wanted to have that big school, and so he went into that, and he enjoyed it, and my youngest got the help, he needed, and so I knew it's like, you know, they enjoy it, but then COVID hit, and that was kind of wild too, my oldest was in the last school year of middle school, 14 I think, and the whole year we were in a district that did homeschooling only, and I feel like he got robbed for these experiences as a wild boy, maybe getting in trouble every now and then, you know, getting used to certain things, but he was at home, totally like, yeah, he would just turn over in the morning, click, turning on the computer, and being half asleep in lessons and stuff, it's that it was not good at all, like in a whole year, then I feel like a lot of kids lost something there, like social experience, even if you are homeschooled, I think you were not able to go and meet up in libraries and all that stuff, it just took something away there, it's of course better, and now we moved in another town, which also is a little bit interesting because it's a different, like a smaller setting in school, and my oldest is now a senior in high school, for him it's a little bit difficult to finish his school time in a total different school, so, and we are more in the country, so you have different kinds of people, but I see it this way, he learned a lot from Catholic school into a normal public school, huge, then you have COVID hit, having that experience, and then you have this, I feel like in the end probably will be okay, he will be well well rounded and well prepared for things that he goes into, adapting to things, and also my youngest, he is now a freshman, so he is all all of high school in that school, and he he smiles a lot, he is very like something opened up in him, he's very on point with homework now and all that stuff, which I was not really helping because I'm also not really concentrated in a lot of ways, so yeah, so that is the overall experience I have with public school, it can be really tough though, and scary as well. Yeah, and now with this transition that you mentioned a few times, if you would like to share about how it was for you and what you're doing now these days and what it's like owning a campsite, I'm sure a lot of you will be curious about that and how maybe Kakao supported you through this first season. Yeah, so we've been 19 years in Illinois and my husband worked in downtown Chicago, and for the same company like 22 years, like he he's been working since in Switzerland, we came over, moved there, and he's yeah, he's been ever since with that, but of course, COVID came, he was able to be at home working from home, and that clicked something in him, especially when they were forcing all the workers to come back again, sitting in a building office, and it was like, what's the difference here, you know, he was part more of his children's life, better coffee, you know, all that stuff at home, and of course, he didn't need to go on the train, train, and all that, that waste of time for years and years, and you only get to see the difference when you have it differently, and he didn't feel like they appreciated him much anymore, so we've had that thought to get a campground years ago, we had like an RV, and we were part of a camp camping group, a camping club, so we had a thought, it's like, you know, that was would be a cool thing to own a campground, and you know, people have their own houses, come, stay and go, you know, that kind of thing, but it was just a thought, like all the things that we always think about, oh, that would be good, but it's, you know, it's only that thought, oh, that would be actually interesting, but never really go into it, and I knew exactly when he came home, he was pissed off, some was happened at work, we did phone call, with pressure, or whatever, and you know when somebody comes home, how they enter the house, you know exactly, the vibe, the aura, everything, and I knew it's like, whoa, it's like, let's do this campground thing, and I was like, are you sure? It's like, yeah, let's do it, I'm done, you know, I'm done, I was like, okay, and that was last year, and he's been looking at campgrounds for sale for a long life longer than that, and when he said that, I knew it's gonna be quick, it's not gonna be, oh, maybe in five years, no, it's gonna be quick, because the same thing happened when we moved over here, it was not just, oh, let's do it sooner than we thought, no, it was like this, boom, and we've been like this, I've been with him since 2001, it's always been like that, like stuff just very fast. Yeah, I love this story, and I love, I know this story from what you shared as well, and I think it's so beautiful, it's taking the leap, you know, and finding the right timing, and then it's like, yeah, when you know it's right, it's just like get the things into place, and let's go. I spoke to one of Eleanor's friends yesterday, they lived in LA, and Orange County, and they decided in a week that they were picking up their stuff and leaving, and they're like, yep, and one week, they had everything packed in the pot, and they were headed to New York, and I was like, wow, that's kind of fast, and then I think it was like two weeks later, they had their house up on the market and sold, there's something wild like that, and so sometimes, you know, when you get everything lines up, it's like, fan, they can be super quick. It is super scary, too, but I knew we've done it before, something big move, a big change, and then finding a place, well, we looked at several campgrounds, but there was always something off, or also one was in Tennessee, there, but a storm came through, we almost bought that one, but the owners didn't want to do a step that actually was necessary to go through all the paperwork and all the things, the due diligence that you need to do, they were saying no to some, it's like, yeah, no, okay, not, no, and so a month ago, or whatever that storm came through, we saw that that campground is swept away, and it was so surreal, it's like, wow, we would have bought that place, like, you know, first season boom and it's gone, and I was sitting, I was like preparing the morning here, like doing my routine, I was so surreal, like as if two separate parts, once the bean would be dealing with getting actually back again to Illinois, because we actually own still the house that we were in, we would be in such a different scenario, but some reason it turned out to be this place that talked to us, and actually not going south, but north, because you, you don't have a lot of campgrounds up north that are open all year round, so because of the wintertime, we were like, if we find one that makes a lot of, like enough money to actually be close for that long, why not, let's look up north, and as soon as we did that decision, this place popped up, and the broker was, hey, there's a one for sale, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna be up for sale pretty soon, you could actually go and look at it now, you know, and we were looking at another one close by here, I was like, yeah, let's do both, and coming here was Labor Day, actually really busy, busy day, and we were looking at this place on Labor Day last year, and then it just goes from one thing to the next, okay, signing this, doing that, and all the while you're thinking, are we really doing this? How do we cope with all of that? The learning, the not knowing, and all that stuff, it's like really scary to do something, and people actually, when we were, we didn't share with a lot of people because it had to little bit be not known, I didn't share with my family in Switzerland for a long time, but there's like certain reasons why we had it like hushed, it's just super scary, and a lot of people that we talked about, we were put by in a campground, they were thinking about something little, and then when we started our season here, and I was like, actually, I'm like the social media person, I'm posting, I'm doing because it's a big operation, and they're like, holy crap, this is not little, this is actually a camp campground, we have like 75 lots, 20 our seasonals, we have cabins, we have different kinds of sites, we have a camp store, we have a pool, we have like all these things that are just like enormous, and the things that we do, I was like, that's actually, that's not a little thing, this is like big, I was like, the reactions that we got, I was like, whoa, what the hell are you guys doing, you know, but yeah, like I said, you go from one signature to the next thing, and then all of a sudden, you are in the middle of things, and you're still like in that, I can't believe that we're doing this, but we have to do it now, because we have people coming in and out and this and that, and then all of a sudden the first season is done, and then now I have to just reflect, you know, getting actually back to really sitting, because you spend a lot of time of thinking what to do that day, or this tasks and this, so you're not really in the moment, which I really grabbed onto, and that's the question that you, I think, asked how I went through with Kakao, I think you, I mentioned that, I'm really, really happy that I, or Kakao actually found me, that I had time to go into learning and getting to know myself in a different way, to cope with certain things, because that was really crucial, because sometimes it's not as busy, and the nature here is amazing, so I was just sitting sometimes, just taking a cup of Kakao, going into nature, and really like having that, but implementing of the feelings that was feeling, of course, tears were on the regular basis, and that release kind of, of coping with certain things, and facing the fears, and doing things I'm not comfortable at all, and that's the thing too, you know, and you go into something new, there are certain things that you're not comfortable in doing at all, but Kakao really helped me every morning, I was sitting with Kakao, even if my, you know, the thoughts come and go, and it's just so busy, it did give me a certain break, a certain, like, breathing, that I, for these, some years now, that I really, like that kind of, familiar, that familiar feeling of the taste of Kakao, breathing it, just having that moment in time, to sit, and also the, to know that it's very important for me to connect to nature, to actually cope and process things, and to get to know this here is, was, that was one of my highlights throughout the, the season, to get to know the trees, the plants, and I was like, what that, that plant is here? Whoa! Now I can't actually, now I have like two teas that I don't need to buy anymore, I have it right here in the backyard in nature, it's like, wow, so yeah, that was, that nature was a big part, and the familiar taste of Kakao to bring me back to center, and really, yes, we are doing it, and I'm gonna be fine. I love that, I really, I really, I'm not taking it in, I'm still processing. I think it was in a previous conversation that came up where it's like, even though that's one guest she was traveling around, and she, you know, moved from Long Island to Florida at Kentucky, and even though the nature felt different, but she had still this deep connection to connecting with nature, so even though it was traveling all over it, it was like, all right, well, let me sit down, it feels a little new, it feels a little different, but still there's something so familiar about just connecting, and having that, that element, that physical element that we can actually root into and root in with, that like, warms our heart, that physically opens our heart, and that practice ritual of showing up every day, really showing up, and then in a space where sometimes we feel ungrounded, and I find myself even, if it's not, not even traveling, but just when I feel emotionally scattered or different or new, bringing in that element of cacao, that ritual, it's like, okay, yeah, all right, this is, this is this hug, this is what I needed, this is this connection, finding myself within that, and it's beautiful that, that you have that connection and allow that allowed you to really ground into yourself in this new environment, and this huge, huge transformational time of your life, and I know you have a very special tree on your property, and I'm curious if you'd like to share about your tree, and also the development of your boys too, from what I know and how they shifted and changed and how they stepped up to the plate when you guys, you know, what changed within your family in this step? Yeah, so the, when we came to visit this place, the trees stuck out to me, and the noise of the raven, the ravens in the cross, because we didn't have that really, where we were like 19 years, and I grew up with peering the cross in Switzerland, and I love that bird, that was the first thing that I noticed here, that sound of the cross, and the different kinds of trees, there's so many different pines, different like maples, of course we are more north, and that showed amazingly now, of course, in falsies, and I've never seen so much glorious golden, all the colors, you know, I say, wow, they're diff, like I didn't know that there was a diff, so different maple trees and all that stuff, like that stuck out to me, the trees, and it was not the first time we came to come here to visit, there was the second time I think where it was fall, we came in the fall last year to just go over some paperwork with the previous, and of course the park was close, so we were actually able to go see more things that we were not in the first time, so we were walking, and I didn't know where the property would end, and there was this hill going upwards, and it was this huge maple tree, and I saw something there, like a sign, and a bench, and I went up there, and there was like this, this thing, a poem, a grandfather, for a grandfather, like grandfather tree, it's a grandfather tree, and there was like a poem about like, you know, grandfather tree or whatever, so I was like, is this on this property, are we gonna own this, you know, and then of course I was always off, all like the previous owners with my husband were like, find themselves, and I always like ping-ponged everywhere, like I wanted to see smell, touch the nature, because there were certain plants I didn't know, so I was like, huh, what is this, what's that, what's that tree, you know, and then they came, I was like, is this on the property, I was like, yeah, and I was like, beautiful tree, and they, they told me, or us, that the camp worker that has been here for like three years, that will come back, she wanted to come back even though it gets sold, she named the tree, and she established that magical space there, and I said, my ears just said, oh, I'm gonna have a good, good time with that person, whoever that is, you know, I was like, huh, okay, so yeah, that's the grandfather tree, it's a huge tree, and it's really, really beautiful, and she has a deep connection with that tree, as well, her dog just recently died, and we were closed, and she actually came back, it was a smaller dog, but she, she is buried there by the grandfather tree, because like, my dog has to be buried here, you know, it's like, but yeah, it's, it's a special spot, and there's so many of, many other trees, another spot, which is more like meditative spot, that I come, came up on when we moved here in April, I went all around everywhere, and I came to that tree, and it's huge white pine, old, with branches, like, unbelievable, and I, I also cleared the space a bit there, and that's like a meditation space, and also the, the space where I hold circles then, and it's also a little bit away from the street, and also that one is the porcupine tree, so with her naming a tree, and having that, it just goes on, now with me coming across a tree that speaks to me, and naming it, yeah, and with the question about our boys, they took over the wood, the firewood, that's their empire, I guess, the firewood, so they're splitting it, stacking it, and our oldest uses the tractor to deliver the wood to the campers, we don't like sell bundles, they just ordered the wood, and then we deliver, so he, that's their thing, and it worked out really well, because the wood parts, that's a lot of time to split it, stack it, and take care of the wood, and so to have our teenagers, to have that, yeah, and they're, they're doing really, really well with that, yeah, they're doing, they're doing good, of course, they were able to make money, so our oldest has now a gaming computer that he always wanted with the money he was able to buy, and our youngest is into Lego, like Lego sets, yeah, he bought it all, you know, so yeah, they are having a kind of responsibilities now as well, different responsibilities, which is good for young men, to have like something like that, that's also outdoors, I'm really, really glad they're outdoors. I think it was just, it's beautiful to continue that conversation around, you know, when we change roles, and the family dynamic changes as well, and how do our kids kind of show up for those of us who are maybe curious, or you know, wanting to take a different step, or shift our reality into the unknown, and it's like just knowing that, you know, our, our kids, they step up to the plate, they find their role, they find their purpose, and as long as we create that environment that is supportive for them to begin to explore themselves in a new way, and I think it's so awesome, like you were talking about the education system, and you know, they're, they're journey through all of their different schooling, and then what life school really brings, like this opportunity for them to now physically engage with the world, connect with the elements, be of service, have responsibility, now it's like it's not only about them, it's, it's, you know, these, the campers that are there that are wanting the fire that are here for their family is creating memories, and the responsibility of continuing that of, okay, I actually do have a role in, in this world, I do have a place, I do have a function, I do have a purpose, even if it's something as, you know, simple and challenging as splitting wood, but it's something that's like, I feel like it comes back to that primal space of, oh wait, let me, let me do something, let me be something, let me help, and I think creating those roles for our kids is so important, as, especially, like we were talking about this new wave of mothers and parenting, and of childhood education, of really, how do we create those roles for our children to feel like they matter, like they have a function, and it's, and it's not only like, oh, you, you do this honey, like you, you help us out, like as if it's like fluff, they know the difference between something that really matters and doesn't, but really giving them something of responsibility of like, oh wow, okay, oh shit, and like, you trust me, like okay, I need to actually do this, like this isn't just some other thing that, you know, mom will take care of later where it's like, oh no, she needs me, or like, I really need to step up, and I think it's so beautiful how each, how just knowing the little that I do from the screens and, and what you share, but the, the pivot and the way that your family is really coming into this new cycle and this new really strong open and beautiful space. I love seeing your journey and witnessing you and your growth too and your connection and all of that is super magical. Yeah, and it's a good point to magic and play. That was really important as well, that I include play within this first year because, you know, if you're not playing or have this curiosity about things, then you probably not have like this kind of hope that's going to work out, you know. So a little bit of play, I always included as well and the curiosity to get to know the area here, and now that we are close, we are able to actually go and discover places that we were not able to check out. There are certain, you know, restaurants or certain places. Michigan has a lot of like lakes and sites that we are able to go check out. And so now, of course, we are collecting a lot of leaves at the moment, but it's now less, so we are able to just go and discover and learn the area, which was, of course, with the season, we were only here, you know, and now we are able to actually explore a little bit thirder. And also go, because if you are a new community, a new town, and we are a business, it's kind of important to actually get to know other businesses and it's like, hey, we are the new owners of such and such, you know, it's also very important to get to know other people in the community. Yeah, so that's something that we're doing right now, just to get our feelers out a little bit into the community. But I'm not worried not to have friends or making connections. I never had problems with that. I think that comes naturally. And I learned over the years, if you are you, you get actually to know other people that are, you know, having your vibe kind of. So I have that lesson now with me here. It's like, you know, what? I'm going to be myself and I'm going to find my people, you know. So you attract certain people, yeah, which, you know, with the campers, it's just they, they are clients that come here and then they they go. So it's, it's kind of different there. You make relations, like you have relations with them or maybe friendships, but it's more on that basis of, oh, I'm camping here and those are the owners, you know, but he be a new in a town, a new area. Yeah, I do want to make connections with new people. That's something I'm going to go into this, this winter as well. You have such a beautiful and unique connection to photography and all of your years and experience of photography and, you know, being an artist from your heart through and through and all your expression. And if you would, if you feel called to share a little bit about your relationship with photography and, um, yeah, the lens through which you, you see life. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that's nice. Put, um, photography came to me when I became a mom actually because my family lives in Switzerland. There was no like 2006. My first born. So social media, not really, you know, where you can just right away like share something, blah, blah, blah. Um, my husband had knowledge about how to use cameras and we had a camera. And he was like the only, only way that you're using this camera with the lens is when you actually learn how to use it like manually. We are not buying like this camera and you're not knowing how to use it and he had knowledge. So he taught me. And then I did some, you know, photography, but then that baby came along. And just to capture these moments, not like say cheese or do this or like trying to make the baby a certain way and then capturing it. No, I captured like moments and I got to know how the light was in certain moments and how to be in there witnessing the child in nature or whatever. And then actually capturing the real essence of my son and then emailing the pictures to my family and friends back home. Just this is, this is us. My first born is called us. This is us. That's him, you know, as you see it. And that's how I taught myself how to really capture somebody's essence, I guess. And then of course normally comes then the questions, oh, can you take my kids picture or this and that, you know, because with social media came around with Facebook and everything, then, you know, you share. Of course, I was all about like, share, share, share. I was like, look at this. It's so beautiful. And then I said, wow, okay. And then you get those questions. And then my husband was like, you know what? Before you actually get money, like people really wanted to pay for, for, you know, photos or whatever, we have to establish a business and have that separate. And I said, okay, so I had my photography business. It was small, but it was going really well. Like I did a lot. I did, it did also weddings. I did events. I did show photography at the university close by. They had me taking pictures of the shows, the theater there. In their sculpture park there, they had like yearly events for fundraising. And I had a deal with them. You take picture of this yearly event. And then you're able to have clients and you could, you can use the sculpture park. So I was actually the only photographer in the area or ever that was actually allowed to in writing to get clients there and using the art as backdrops for portraits and stuff. And just like one thing led to another, you know, you get to know people and then you have an opportunity and then that led to the next. So from the first family photoshoot to like being at the show photographer for the university was like big. Yeah. And I had like this company for 10 years and then of course, COVID came. And I was like, you know what? It's not the same anymore. It feels more like an effort now. What spoiled it was the picture days I started with dance company in local in town and a little school I did there. They're yearly picture days. And when you start to deal with really the parents, it's just, it's not the same anymore. You're not able to really capture the essence, which I was always about. And that took it away a little bit of the joy. I was like, you know what? I have to move on from this. I need to to really do photoshoots and things that I'm interested in. And that happened then also. I closed the business and then I have a friend that is really wild with her, his art. And we did like these photoshoots were like vampire photoshoots and like more new new photoshoots with women and all that. So I was so awesome to really capture women in their natural form and then outside and all like crazy ideas and all that stuff. I was able to have that 10 years of of knowledge of capturing certain things and then really go into a theme, like theme photoshoots. And I was, that was awesome. Yeah. That's something I miss maybe to have that, but I'm maybe I can establish something here as well. Because I do like to capture people in nature or in very fascinated about the female figure or like a human form in a rough environment. Next to maybe like a pine tree or whatever, like it's just doesn't maybe go together, but it does. Depending how you capture it, I'm just fascinated by that. Yeah. And that is still with me. Like when you are a photographer and you are somewhere, you look at like a spot, it's like that would be awesome thing, you know. But yeah, I would need to look for people that would actually be willing to like stand in and you know, but it might come that I meet some people here that I can do some photoshoots with. Yeah. I'd love to see more more of your work. Yeah. Moving through at this time. I want to thank you so much for your time and I want to ask you this question that I do really enjoy asking all of my guests. And that is what is your favorite thing about being human these days? I guess for me, it's writing that that wave of the not knowing because we are in very unpredictable times right now. And whatever comes to have that kind of center, I am me and that's enough, you know. And I am able to with my awareness of my lifetime of change that I am able to adapt to whatever comes my way. So to be human nowadays is I think to be aware of yourself to actually adapt to new situations and that we are able to adapt to new situations and write that wave however it comes. We're going to be fine. That's always my thing. Everything works out in the end. And like I said, you do a signature there and you step by step and then you're in the middle of things. It's like, why? Why did I do that choice? But just keep on going because it's all about the intuition as well. Just writing that wave is like, you know what? It's calling me so why not? Yeah. I love that. Thank you for sharing. And if there's anything else, like if you could share with our listeners, what is one thing you want them to know about Kakao? Or like to take away with them for Kakao, where one thing that you wish to own part with them about Kakao? Well, Kakao is finding you. You don't find Kakao. She comes into your life when it's the best time to actually opening up your heart. And there's always this feeling of, why did I get into these things earlier? I would have been so much farther. But it's not how you should think about it. It's about she came when it was most important or when I was ready to embark on this journey. Because maybe if you had a rough childhood or whatever, you would have not been ready to actually have that heart opening and becoming aware of what you are capable of. So, and always listen, if you've never tasted Kakao, don't force it. Just the time will come naturally. And it's with all major plants. You don't seek them out. They seek you out. So, if and also don't shy away of the fear, especially with working with plant medicines, it's actually a good thing. If you are fearful, you actually come into it with respect to the plant. Because the fear is a sign of there's more attached to it than just having like a buzz or whatever. Whatever you're into, there is this respect of the history behind it as well. So, the fear could also be a sign of maybe I am ready for actually learning what this is. And not just like, "Well, let's have it. Have a good time and then not going beyond it." So, just listening to your intuition, which she opens as well, that intuition part, that opening heart. Yeah. I think that's the lesson that I learned and the message that I want to give out that, you know. So, listening to yourself and when the time is right, the time is right. Thank you for that medicine. That beautiful, beautiful answer. And I love how everybody's answer is so different. It's so fun. All the different flavors. Part of the tradition of this podcast is that the previous guest leaves a blessing for our current guest. So, I would love to share the blessing from our previous guest with you. All right. So, I'll allow yourself to drop in and just receive. Sending you blessings of light and love that your day may be filled with unconditional love, that the spirit and the energy of our beautiful plants, our animal allies, our mountain spirits, our ocean spirits, will come to you, come right into your heart, and allow you to open even more right now in this moment. And for your day ahead, may you be walking in the presence of the great mother and feel your deep connection to all that is. I know that you are loved and that you are connected. Very nice. Unexpected. So, just soaking up that medicine. And I love the threads of certain things that I never realize until the blessing is shared with the current guests. And I was like, oh, it's so perfect. It's always perfect for the person that's receiving. And if you feel called to drop in and share that blessing for our next guest, I would love to share your blessing for our next guest as well. Feeling in this moment in time, the authenticity of the voices, the stories, the self-love, and acceptance. I wish you the most bestest day to sing and dance, to play, to be curious in life and what's to come, to touch others with your light and do not hold yourself back in the message that you carry, your medicine. Everybody has medicine. And yours is your own special medicine that you can bring into this world, the messages that you hold, the voice, your body, expression, curiosity. I wish you the most fun, to talk in truth and authenticity. May you encounter lots of people that you can touch with your soul and that they touch your soul and so you can walk this life never alone, but together, building a new future for us and the children that come. And so it is, and so it will be, and so it was. Thank you for this beautiful blessing, and I can't wait to share it with our next guest as well. So we have had a beautiful conversation and so many different subjects, and I want to know also, do you still have your TikTok channel and the one where you made your igloo? Yes, I do. Yeah, and it's actually pinned to the top, the two videos that are pinned, and the one that I, like one minute clip of from the start of the build to the end, people love just one minute and you get a whole, the whole story that has like 1.1 million, yeah. That one was very surprising, yeah. Like you should. All of our listeners should definitely check out that video. It is so inspiring, it is so fun, it is amazing. So we'll definitely put that in the description as well, but countryside, campgrounds and cabins and Michigan. Hopefully you'll have a few more guests from our podcast going to visit you and look it out. Yeah, and the plan is to, you know, hold circles as well within the beautiful nature. I just want to share the, the magic that is here as well. And for the guests that might only stay with their camper or, or tent and not really go, but I, that's the thing too, I want people to go and explore and just sit with nature and be more, like become more comfortable with. Yeah, you go camping, but are you really in nature, you know, when you go camping? So that's my question and that's what I explore and want to offer to really get in touch with nature. And I'm just putting it out there, maybe seating the potential collaboration and retreat at your, yeah, I totally was thinking about you, it's like, you know what, I wonder if that's might be one day in the future, possible, you know, yeah. I love you. Yeah. So beautiful. Today we have the honor of the Sabine closing the space for us. And I would love to pass it over to you. Yeah. Close our time together. Yeah, and it's just settle in. There was so many informations passing through, just closing the eyes and feeling your sit bones connecting to the earth, become aware of your own authenticity, what has awakened in yourself, certain questions maybe, become aware of the stillness as well, reflecting back, becoming aware of ourselves within a discussion, within listening, what is awakened within us, and where does it lead to? We give thanks to all the themes that we're spoken about, the themes of motherhood, initiations, the importance of self, within this busy life, becoming aware that it is important to go through life within presence, with curiosity, with strength, and believing in ourselves, believing in others, being in community, and seek out new adventures, whatever it is, you can do it, we can do it, we can achieve it, we can be as powerful as can be, we can be brave, playful at the same time. So with that, we give thanks and put our awareness to the heart of the sky, to all its wisdom, guiding lights, get our awareness to the heart of the earth, that settlement of knowing, the deep knowing, our awareness, the heart of the water and the heart of the fire, with the sizzling power of our breath, breathing it from all directions, north, south, east and west. Thank you. All the themes, our breath, our bodies, our minds, our voices, the dogs that were with me, being heard as well, the animals, our dignity, our fun. With that, I give thanks to this beautiful call to Alexandra for this beautiful adventure that she goes into opening herself up with the potential that she has. We wish her well, we wish her the most beautiful journey with this, getting to know people in the deeper level with beautiful discussions and connections. With that, this call is closed, this circle is closed, thank you, thank you. And so it is, we do.