Burnout, Boundaries And Better Habits

Welcoming Rebecca Liljendahl: Habits, Burnout, and Pandemic's Impact Hello and welcome back to our next episode of HR Ish. I'm Amanda Chadwick, and we have got a fabulous episode for you today. We are giving you something back because we think you need it. And we know that you have been super busy since the pandemic. You haven't stopped, you haven't had a rest. You've continually worked and it's going to get busier. We've got the Employment Rights Act, we've got all those changes coming in. We're going to be busy again for the next two years. We're not stopping. People come to you with their problems and you take on the burden. And so we have a fabulous guest here today to help you. We thought this was going to be great for you. And we've got Rebecca here today. So I was going to say Rebecca's surname, but Rebecca, you can pronounce it better than I can. So Lillian Doll. OK, to and and where's that name? Speaker 2 It's from Sweden, so, and it means Valley the Lilies, which is quite nice but common. Surname apparently in Sweden, but not over here, of course. So yeah, people do struggle with it. Don't worry, no test at the end. I won't test you. Speaker 1 No, and and I, I'll, I, I will try and say it at the end. Don't, don't, don't test me again. No way, right. So I brought you here today because you do fat, but you, your background is HR. It is. And you've got a degree in psychology and you've worked incredibly hard to build your business up and you help people with burnout habits. Tell me a little bit about your company. Speaker 2 Yeah, so I ran a business called Habitsense. Yeah. And the reason I do that is because I'm absolutely obsessed with habits. Habits became my calling. I started off in 1010 years ago in corporate HR loved HR. Then I went off and had had my babies like you do. And I got a call from an old employee who'd set up a well-being company. She said come wait for me. So jumped at the top because obviously working in corporate HR with two young children is really challenging. And this was pre pandemic. So if you remember well-being was not on the corporate agenda, so lucky enough to get into well-being so early on and we had such brilliant talks about science. The science was so inspiring, nutrition, movement, you name it, heard it. But what would happen is people would come to these talks and they would be leave so inspired. And then there'd be this massive gap between intention and action. So I went back to my roots in psychology and I was like, what's going on here? How can we get people to start doing what they already want to do? And that's when I went back to research habits. We all know how the story went there, don't we? Like pandemic came along, caught well-being shut up the agenda. And then I found myself being asked for sessions on habits. So I ran a session for the NHS and that was it, I was hooked. Speaker 1 I think people are still getting over the pandemic. I think they buried it and I think they're addressing it now. And what we had in the workplace is that we had HR that constantly worked. A lot of them weren't furloughed. They worked. And then there was people furloughed, they would take, they had holidays when they came back, they'd accrued them. And then you had people just working, you know, and I know it was tough for people that were furloughed as well. It was tough for the people that had to work from home. It was tough for people that continued working. And then the worry as well, I think, and, and I don't actually ever think that we really dealt with what we went through and, and teenagers too, because I think in the future that that workforce, they're coming into our workforce now actually, or I'd already have, and they have been educated at home and sat in the bedrooms. It must have had a huge impact. So I'm, I'm glad that you've come on today. From First Jobs to New Habits: Adapting to Modern Work So what are we going to start with first? Shall we start with, let me ask you actually, what was your first ever job? I'll ask you that. I think. OK. Because I'm quite interested in that, where people started from their first job. Speaker 2 So my first ever job, I went for a phone card company. I mean, talk about that's. Speaker 1 A blaster on the past phone cards. Speaker 2 Yeah, talk about change. Now we've got mobile phones in our pockets, but we used to use calling cards, particularly to phone abroad. And I was on the helpline for a, yeah, a family run business. I loved it. Yeah, really enjoyed. Speaker 1 That do you know? Did you enjoy that job? Speaker 2 Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Just work for great people. And working for great people makes such a difference, doesn't it? Speaker 1 And I find that, you know, when I ask people about the first ever job, they always say, oh, I loved it. The first ever job, they loved it. Oh, I wonder if you've got an answer for that. I don't know if you have as a habits coach, why people always like the majority of people. I don't think I've ever met anybody that says I didn't like my first job. If I'm not about the first job you pick as you come out of school or you do. Everybody, everybody I meet goes, I loved it. And some of the jobs are, you know, unusual jobs or jobs they don't do now totally different to what they do now. And they go, yeah, loved it, loved it. So what if it's our experience of entering the workplace for the first time? Speaker 2 Oh, I think there's several factors there. I think it's your first taste of freedom. Speaker 1 Yeah, definite. Speaker 2 And when I coach people, that's what everybody says that they want. They want freedom. And I also think we look back with rose tinted classes, don't we? So like at the time, I was probably really bored and really hated it. But my back, my memory back is, yeah, I loved it. And I think maybe that first job, there's no real responsibility, is there? So you don't feel stressed in the same ways as we do now. But I think you raised an interesting point because you talked about the pandemic and how we've not got over it. The pattern that I see is that the way we worked changed so dramatically in that point. We were suddenly all at home, weren't we, with no routine, no habits. Yeah. And then we are morphed into being able to work from home, which means and Zoom calls, all the rest of it. So it's now constant connectivity, no boundaries. It only happened six years ago. So we're still, I think, catching up where we haven't. We've got our old neurology, our old working mindset, a completely new way of working. And I don't think we've learned how to manage our energy levels with that setup. So that's what I help people do. Yeah. Ultimately, I think we need a new set of habits. Everybody needs a new set of habits. Yeah, for the way we work now. Navigating Blurred Boundaries: The Reality of Working from Home And also the way working from home, you know the habit of working from home. And I remember doing an interview, I think I meant I might mention this before or webinars or whatever. And this, this lady said, I want to work from home because I like to do my housework. And you know, and this is in the interview, I do my housework, do prepmati, I do this, I do that. And I, I'm thinking, why are you saying that in the interview? And I pulled this afterwards and said that you've got the job. But I just want to give you a heads up for future reference when you have an interview, probably will mention about you doing those chores. We all do them, but don't mention it. It's a few. I'm just giving you a heads up. I didn't think and I'm quite liberal like that, you know, so, but I think there is a this line, isn't there of how do you split everything up? I, I, I work from home quite a lot of the time, but I'll, I'll be cleaning, I'll be doing, I don't have a cleaner. I don't have anybody do anything for me. The only thing I have is like dry cleaner soup and do everything myself and always have, even with children. I don't know how I would have managed working from home if I'd have had to do it when I had, like, younger kids. So it's changing that and changing the way you work. Yeah. And that's where you help people, isn't it? Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. And I see people just being completely overwhelmed by those pressures. And you know what it's like if your kitchen's a mess and then you're trying because it's not going to a team school. And then all the rest of it, like it just adds and adds. But you used to walk out the door, slam the door, and that mess was at least behind you. And now it's like part of your everyday. And we can go from team school to team school, which means we end up just being absolutely exhausted, not processing what's just happened in that meeting. Whereas we used to travel, didn't we, to the next meeting, at least walk between meeting rooms and then you'd be able to process maybe what you were going to say or what just happened or drink, eat something. But we just go, go, go now. And that's the real pressure that I see. Speaker 1 The other thing you used to do as well is if you'd had a meeting or you'd been in a meeting, you could walk with your colleagues and share the content of that meeting or how somebody reacted and views. You don't do that anymore, so you close that down. That's it. Yeah. And you'd have to absorb that and fester or whatever you do. Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. Understanding Emotional Eating and Mastering Energy Management And then I think one of the big habits I end up talking to people about is emotional eating. And people get home from work, they have their dinner late, and then they can't stop with the snacks and they're like, there's something wrong with me. I had a client a long time ago. Two years ago she started with me. She's now lost 4 stone. Speaker 1 Really. But she was. Speaker 2 8. Speaker 1 Tell us more. Tell us I. Speaker 2 Will, She was managing director of a care home. She's managing 60 staff. A lot of pressures. It's hard work, you know? Yeah. Yeah, a lot. Speaker 1 Of sector, that is hard work. Speaker 2 Yeah, really big responsibilities and high Turner of staff and obviously low paid job, which definitely should be one of the highest paid jobs in the world. I think it shouldn't be one of the lowest, but caring for other people. And she, she came to me. She was like, Becca, there's something wrong with me. So does it tell me what you mean. And she was like, well, every Sunday night I promise myself I'm going to go to the gym and I don't go. I just lay on the sofa and I open a bag of crisps and then I can't stop. She's like, there's got to be something wrong with me. So we were back. Look at the habits. Because what people don't understand is we we have these habits like emotional eating and they work because we're self soothing, because we've got a very stressful job. It's very high pressured and there's not something wrong with her name was Helen. Speaker 1 That's close me for a second. That's like, well, that's what I do. Speaker 2 Except I don't work. We do. And we do it because our bodies are going. You're exhausted, you need some energy. Food gives you that energy. So how a habit is formed is we have a need or we the problem is I feel exhausted. So we have a craving to fix that problem. Food's readily available. Or, of course, the doom scrolling. We all like a bit of a doom scroll. And then so we we start that and then that's our response. And then we're rewarded instantly with feeding better. If you think your days on the Savannah, you would have, yeah. If you'd feasted on the fig tree before the approaching tribe came, you're going to be well in, aren't you? It's going to go quite well. So that's a habit that we have. And we start that from when we're breastfed, you know, we're cuddled, we're soothed. So it's a a habit that's really embedded in all of us and food's readily available. Speaker 1 And The thing is, it's like alcohol and food. It's always a nice celebration. So you, you, you know, if it's a christening, it's a wedding, it's a party, it's a birthday party. It's, it's all on Sunday dinner. It's all about niceness, isn't it? So it's hard. I, I just what I do is I think, oh, it's the weekend. I deserve a treat, you know, like and get, I have a treat draw. I have two treat, another biscuit. My breakfast is my breakfast is biscuits. So I have coffee biscuits or cakes or jam. I love jam tart, so I have jam tart, but I have phases so that I'm not sure. The thing is, I'm not sure if that's a habit I want to break because I like it, but it's not good for me, you know? Yeah. So the reason that these habits need to be managed is because if we're not managing our home life and the way we are personally, it's going to affect work as well, isn't it? So talk to me about managing the habits and the ones that are actually the ones that really affect people. Speaker 2 Yeah, what's key is to recognise that habit which is short circuiting your energy. So if we've got an emotional eating habit and we eating jam tarts, chocolate digestive biscuits is my favourite, that's not really a problem unless you're you're picking and crashing throughout the morning. So some people have this massive dip in energy mid morning or mid afternoon and then they end up pushing work later and later and they're working later and later at night. I've just talked to you about my client Helen and she found that she was just working so late at night and she came to me because she was like, I need to change this habit. She had a weight problem, but also she was like, all I do is work. She said all that's all they're going to write on my gravestone is, you know, she's brilliant at work and she was like, I want to live my life. She's like, I want to go skiing and scuba diving and do like great stuff like that. So it firstly, it depends on what you want to achieve and what the main thing I see is people needing to improve their energy levels so that they can get really ruthless about saying no, I'm not doing that or I'm delegating it, I'm deleting it, whatever it is, creative thinking because everyone's got too much on their plate. So they need to be really in that creative mindset, not that fight or flight mindset, so they can be ruthless with what they're going to do. So we always talk about time management, but we need to get ruthless with the energy management. And then once we've got that nailed, it frees us up to be ruthless about what we're going to decide to do and what we're not going to do and what we're going to change. So that's the main thing that I help. Speaker 1 People do energy. Breaking Digital Habits: The Magic of Morning Daylight I didn't think of it like that. So it's the energy side of it. Speaker 2 Yeah, so when you are emotional eating, you are getting a quick fix of energy, but 45 minutes later you might be having a crash. You might be fine. Jammed hearts might work for you. And you're like, no, this isn't a problem. But lots of people then they're crashing. The main habit I see is people wake up to the sound of their alarm clock. That's their cue. A craving is, of course, to stay in bed longer. So your mobile phone is charging next to your bed. You grab your phone, you hit it, turn it off. Or maybe it's in the folds of the duvet. That's the open common 1, isn't it? Speaker 1 Start house fire that. Speaker 2 Yeah. And then you silence your mobile phone and your phone's in your hand. So you immediately start scrolling, checking your emails, etcetera, etcetera onto your social media. Which means you stay in bed too late, you get screaming at the kids, you miss your morning run or getting outside for any daylight, get everybody out the door. Then you straight on your laptop. So one of the first things I get people to do is to stop charging their mobile phone next to their bed. So we need to move it so it's not in arm's reach of the bed. If you've got dependents, maybe it's across the other side of the room. And then you, it's not the first thing you touch when you go to bed. No, sorry when you wake up in the morning. And it's not the last thing you touch when you go to night, which is robbing you of your sleep, which is one of our main resources to top up our energy levels. So that's the first thing I tend to do with clients. Let's move that mobile phone and then you can get out the door, get some daylight and daylight absolutely magic. So the reason daylight is so important, it's my number one top habit. I was going on about this yesterday and everyone was laughing it up because do you see all those adverts you get on your social media, which is like this, this tablet or this pill, this supplement is going to give you loads of energy. It's going to make you focused. Well, going outside does all of that. So when we go outside and get between 20 and 30 minutes in the morning, those first rays of light, those rays of light hit the back of our retina and they turn into serotonin. First of all, that's that happy hormone that we're all seeking. So that's the first good thing. And then at night, that's serotonin. When the light levels drop, as long as we're not on our phone, turn into melatonin. So it's basically a sleeping tablet for later on. Yeah, so that's the first thing. Second thing is it raises your cortisol levels. Now, everyone thinks of cortisol as the evil stress hormone. Actually, cortisol is the hormone of energy, and we want a steep spike of cortisol first thing in the morning so that when we get that stressful e-mail, that terrible grievance conversation we've got to do, it comes as blips of cortisol which tails off towards the end of the day. True burnout is a spike in cortisol at the end of the day, so when you get that daylight first thing in the morning, you get you nice peaking cortisol, which is basically your insurance policy for the rest of the day. A Glimpse into Rebecca's Morning: Habits for a Busy Life So you're saying 1520 minutes in the morning, I get out there as soon as the sun's rising or when the sun's risen? Speaker 2 Yeah, it doesn't matter if if the sun, if it's only just rising, you'll still get those very first rays of light which your eyes are terribly sensitive to. We're in we're in January at the moment. So it's really hard because most most of us are getting up in pitch black. But start this habit now, Give it a few more weeks. You're going to be getting those first rays of light, which you're incredibly sensitive. Speaker 1 I've noticed the days are actually getting longer anyway, it's not going dark, as dark earlier on as it was. So can I ask you, because I'll just pause for a second and ask you, what's your routine in the day? Do you mind if I ask you that? Because I really like to know because just because I'm not, not to embarrass you in any way, but see if you practise what you preach because you're very energetic. Yeah, yeah. And I know you've got two young boys and Life View is very, very busy. So I think when we get guests on, I'd like to know if they do what they say, you know, So tell if you are what you are on the tin. Speaker 2 Yeah, I will absolutely tell you so. Of course I'm absolutely human. Yeah, so my mobile phone is not charged next to my bed. I've got a lovely Lumi light, but there's every now and again the phone creeps back in the bedroom. I was coming to meet you today, didn't want to miss my train. So I've got my Lumi alarm clock ready to go. I've got my mobile phone, it's cracked back in the bedroom because I want that alarm clock there in the morning. So all the time, it's a constant. I've got a change. Just have it again. So there are life is set against us. That's what I tell people. It's set against us to be like, oh, this is going to creep back in. Yeah. Now going out for the morning walk. Speaker 1 Sorry, can I just ask you, what's a Lumi light? Oh yeah, right. So what is that? Speaker 2 Yeah, I need a Lumi Lumi light sponsorship. That'd be great, wouldn't it? It's one of those lights that you can set so it gets light in the morning. Speaker 1 Will that wake you up? Speaker 2 Yeah, it wakes me up. Speaker 1 How long does that take? Because I'm a really deep sleeper You shattered torture by. Speaker 2 Face depends I would say you can set it for different times and you can also set sound on it. So I've got bird song coming on, but I'm quite a light sleeper. Speaker 1 Oh, are you? Yeah. OK, so that wakes you up. Yeah. And then? Speaker 2 If if my 7 year old doesn't leap in bed first of all at like 6:00 so that that's what often. Speaker 1 Happens so I'm I'm, I'm now visualising this so you've got like a lovely luscious light, yeah. And then you've got yeah, just. And that's waking you up, Yeah. Speaker 2 Now that's that's the that's the dreamy like Instagram version. The reality is like a six year old, like duck 777 year old dives into my bed and then like steals all the covers. Yeah, so that's that's reality. And then down a pint of water. That's the first thing I. Speaker 1 Do do you have that by your bed? Yes. Do you put electrolytes in that? Because people are going into electrolytes now aren't. Speaker 2 They Yes they are. No, I don't. Speaker 1 I'd say pint of water, pint of water. Speaker 2 Water's good enough. The reason I do that is because, well, first of all, we want to hydrate ourselves, don't we? For that great cognition. And we all carry around those bottles of water, don't we? But there's no, there's no real reason to keep sipping that water throughout the day. So normally we forget and then we down it at the end of the day, don't we? Yeah, because we realise we're really thirsty and that disrupts our sleep later on. So line up first thing. And then also, if you delay your caffeine, it's much better for you because you don't have that energy dip halfway through the afternoon. So down that pint of water. OK, then I drag myself from bed. I hate getting up, Amanda. Speaker 1 Like, I love sleep, I love experts. Have you ever had one of those moments where you think this is out of my comfort zone? Maybe it's a grievance that you're too involved in or you've LED the disciplinary so you can't lead the appeal. Face to Face is here to back you up. Our HR professionals join you in person to investigate, manage those appeals, or guide you through those protected conversations so that you can do what's right for your business and your people with confidence. Contact us today to find out more Face to Face. Let's face it together. Practical Tips for Parents: Coping with Lack of Sleep Yeah, I absolutely hate it. So this morning routine is a real struggle for me. I this does not come easy so I have to work really hard at it. So then I get up. Now if I've got up early enough I can take the dog for a walk and my husband hasn't left the house yet. Yeah, on a really good day I go for a run around the park without the dogs. It's a bit old so do 20 minute run. I'm not a runner but it makes me feel really good for the rest of the day. So hard day I will make sure I go for a run. Easy day is when I'll be a bit more relaxed to go for the dog walk. Speaker 1 20 minutes, You said you're not a runner because I'm not a runner. Do you stop during that 20 minutes? Is it continued running? Speaker 2 Oh no, it's a bit of stopping. Speaker 1 Is it right? OK, just checking that. Speaker 2 I'm yeah, I think what's important to know is I got obsessed with habits because I found this stuff difficult to do. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's why I'm listening to you. You'll find that I go quiet, really quiet when I'm listening because I and I'm analysing and thinking. There's so many people like me. So many HR and I know that, you know, we have a lot of men in HR now, which is fantastic. There's a lot of parents in HR and they don't have time to allow that time. So hearing you talk about it as a mother and me stunned thinking I need to do that, I need to do that. It's really helping people because we're, we're helping their mental health, aren't we here? We're helping the well-being, we're trying to help them. Little, little tiny changes that you can do. And, you know, when you talk about the water, the running and, and I'm really intrigued with the running because it's something I'm never drawn to running, but I know I can do it because I have got the NHS app, which you can download and it goes and they have these famous voices on it that encourage you to run. I, I've done that. And there's a lady at work that's actually, she's now a runner, you know, probably not a jogger, a runner, because she downloaded the app and over time she's lost weight and she's got healthier. And, and I find that what I do, and I say this on my webinars, is that things I can't do, I try and incorporate into my life. So, for example, exercise is part of my getting ready routine. So and, and people laugh at it, but when I'm rushing, sorry, when I'm brushing my teeth, I'm doing 40 squats in the shower because otherwise we won't do those squats. When I'm making my coffee, I do squats, then pelvic floors, which soon somebody says it, I start doing them like, you know, like naturally I do those while I'm sat down because you're sat down a lot, aren't you? And I do all sorts of things like that to incorporate it. So that's why I'm so interested in knowing how you've fitted that into such a busy life, which so many people will have. So we've got the water, the looming loomy light, Yeah. We've got to the the park, the run, the 20 minutes, yeah. Speaker 2 And the 20 minutes that has to be done before my husband goes out the door. And if he's going to London, yeah, if he's going to London and I don't get up quick enough that that slot has gone. And then it's just I stand outside with a cup of hot water and do a few yoga moves. Now, I'm no like, yoga, like, I don't know, role model. Yeah, but I've just got outside and I've moved my body and that makes you feel really good. And that's what I see people not doing. And we're not looking for perfection here. We're just looking for a bit of time outside and move your body. And if you can't get outside by go to, you know, if you've got sick kids or something, which happens all the time, then I'm dancing around the kitchen. Speaker 1 I think the biggest thing we talked about earlier on is the I I think the one thing that I struggled with is lack of sleep. When your children are growing up, that affects you for the day. Speaker 2 Doesn't, Oh my God, so much do. Speaker 1 You have any tips for that because there'll be a lot of parents or people that have got partners that are just disrupting them in bed. But I can't cope with lack of sleep. Like my husband books early flights and why did you do that? Oh my gosh, you know, getting up a bed out of bed, getting up a bed, getting out of bed at 4:00 in the morning to get a flight and have a shower when you used to feel like you just want to still be in bed. It's not naturally me. So as a parent, I have 4 grown up children, 6 grandchildren. But I've been through those times where I've had a baby that's had reflux that's constantly been awake every night and and struggled to get to sleep crying through the night. And then the reflux has gone into the ears and it's gone on for years. And then really, you know, deprived asleep. There's parents out there like that. Have you any top tips of managing that? Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. NSDR Meditation: Rejuvenating Dopamine and Beating Sleep Panic I mean, hats off to you because I've got a nine year old who's a dream sleeper and A7 year old who has never slept. He's just never slept, done everything OK, as I do with a nine year old, but this child is just not going to sleep. So he still wakes me up. So I have real empathy for people because I've been there and it's so hard. And then as soon as you don't sleep, you reach for the coffee and the sugary snacks, because you've got to. You've just got to get. Speaker 1 Through the energy don't you to work and then to give you best to everybody else. Speaker 2 Yeah. So first of all, I would say you do what you need to survive on those bad days and no knocking yourself when you have to reach for the sugar or the coffee, like you just have to get through the day. I think my first tip would be if you're in a high pressured job and you've got a really difficult day ahead of you and you're thinking, Oh my God, I have not slept, your body is going to get you through. That is the first thing to lean on. The adrenaline, the cortisol, it's all designed to kick in and it will and you will be OK. I see lots of people getting sleep panic and actually that's the worst thing we can do. So just sleep well. They get really anxious that they're not going to sleep or that they haven't had enough sleep. And actually, we just just let it go because your body will come through for you and in that moment. Speaker 1 You're worried about not having the sleep, and that makes you not sleep. Speaker 2 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So first of all, let that go. You will be, you will cope. Second of all, if you have the sugar and the coffee, go for it. That's fine. Third of all, I would say use something called an NSDR. It's a sleep meditation and that you can get on an app called Insight Timer, which is free download that you can find 10 minute versions of it and it's scientifically proven to rejuvenate you like you've had a sleep. Now if you fall asleep listening to it, it's fine. You can listen to it on the train, can't listen to it while you're driving, but you could pull up just have 10 minutes before you go into work or like I've got a client who he's got a really stressful job in the city. He now goes to the well-being room. Loads of people have just set up well-being and he does one for 10 minutes mid afternoon when he says his brain is just completely exploded with all his back-to-back meetings. Speaker 1 Like a Nana nap. Speaker 2 Yeah, like a Nana. Speaker 1 And did they actually sleep? Speaker 2 Some people do. When I do it, if I've had a bad night I will totally fall asleep. Speaker 1 So you have like a deep sleep, 10 minutes. Speaker 2 Yeah, but the the voice will bring you back out of it. Speaker 1 Oh, that's brilliant. I know. Oh, I'm going to get that off you. I'll write that down in a bit. Speaker 2 We can I can give you the link. Speaker 1 It's on. It's not like I need that now I'm but I could have done with that years ago. Go on, carry on. I get in all these wonderful. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I, I, I work with lots of HR managers who they're under so much pressure that constant task switching we do and the clicking of the emails, click, click, click. We've almost druggified work because every time we're switching tabs and emails, you know, Slack notification, WhatsApp, you name it. My God, the school app, the school app is like non-stop. Isn't it just? Speaker 1 Oh, I don't know. Speaker 2 This We have a school app my children. Speaker 1 In school. Speaker 2 My school app was nice it. Speaker 1 Was letters when I was my children were in school. Speaker 2 And. Speaker 1 They go, Mum, I've got a letter of a bag you've not signed and I'd like, Oh my God, the school ago, Miss Chadwick, they've had I, I, I my pet, my parenting is questionable. I kiss. Speaker 2 Well, it's. Speaker 1 Like a lastoplast parent. Anyway, got 3. Speaker 2 Well now these are gay. They send so many notifications now that you're like, this is a full time job That's awful I can't keep up with. Speaker 1 This. I think that's awful. Speaker 2 It is. So anyway, all of that going on, what is it? Is it drains your dopamine? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 And we need our dopamine to like get up and do hard things like go outside and go for the walk. So that NSDR meditation, it's called non sleep deep rest meditation that rejuvenates that dopamine. Speaker 1 Oh, brilliant. The other thing is what I when Fleur was poorly and I'd be, I'd get her in bed with me because she couldn't, you know, she, she's still got, she has that disease, good disease, but I'd be holding her and I'd go please Fleur, please go to sleep. Mummy's got to be up for work in the morning. Like, you know, I had to be up like at 5 and, and then get in the car and drive and, and drop her off and, and, and the other children as well by not just Fleur, but I'd be exhausted, but I'd also be thinking about being exhausted, exhausted the next day. So is there any techniques? Because I'd be as I'm trying to go to sleep and I'm trying to get her to sleep, I'd then be thinking, I've got to be up at 5:00 and already apprehensive for the day ahead and can I'm going to be shattered? So I'm already putting it in my mind that I'm going to be shattered for the day ahead because she keeps waking up during the night and I'm trying to soothe her and, you know, console her. But have you got any tips for that, you know, like to get rid of that negative feeling and we're already having for the day ahead? Speaker 2 Yeah, my main thing would be just to know that your body is going to come through for you and that adrenaline, that cortisol is going to kick in, and that's everything you need to survive. And it did. And I find that once they have you at absolute breaking point, then they sleep and so do you. And so you will come through the other side and it's everything they say, don't they? Everything's a phase. And I would say it really is. But having that non sleep deep rest meditation is like your your handbrake that you can pull to know that you can get through the next few hours. I should say that's that's the most useful thing to use. Speaker 1 Yeah. Addressing HR Burnout: Escaping the Shame of the Habits Hole So what are the so you do habits? What? How else would you help HR with burnout? Speaker 2 Yeah. I think the thing we're saying with HR at the moment, it's like Canary in the coal mine, isn't it? I think we everybody at work is so stressed at the moment with the ways we're working as we've spoken about the way we've changed that hyperconnectivity. There's no boundaries. And so people are exploding all the time and HR are seeing those pressures and then they're feeling about themselves. But I also think that there is a real stigma around HR that because we've, you know, we're meant to have done the resilience training or we've even delivered it, you know, self-care is not selfish, promoting that, that badge. So in HR you think, well, I'm meant to be able to cope. So then when you're not coping, there becomes this big like shame and stigma around it. And shame really keeps us stuck. So what I see is people being absolutely exhausted just because of the way we're working now. And then they're reaching for the sugar, the doom scrolling, shopping on vintage, like whatever it is, you name it, the wine, the gin and tonic. Like the crisp sandwich. Yeah, if things are really bad, I'm going for a crisp sandwich. Yeah, already salted. And then and then you're like, I don't want to do this. This isn't who I want to be. So then you add in more shame, but those habits work to give you energy in the moment or or self soothe you in the moment. So then you add in more shame. And then I find you're in what I call is a habits hole because you feel guilty for how you're behaving. You'd know you meant to know better. And then you're like, why? Why can't I change? So then you do what you've always done, which is you try harder. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 But because you're trying harder, you're trying to expend energy you just don't have because you're exhausted means you're even now you're like at the bottom of this habits hole being like, get somebody Get Me Out of here. And then you need the self soothing because if you just feel so embarrassed about where you're at. So what I'd say to people is the first rung out of this habits hole is we need to get curious about what's going on. So we have this phrase, how do I break my bad habit? And that phrase is completely flawed because you can't break a habit. It's a neural connection in your brain. It's not bad because it's a habit that you've you've come up with to give you energy yourself to in a moment. So the first thing I get people to do is to consider those bad habits data. Like when I'm reaching for the crisp sandwich, what does that mean about what's going on for me right now? And once we start switching that and understanding our habits as data, we like first rung on the ladder, like to get out and start changing things. But it's the shame, I think, that really puts us in that habit hole. Speaker 1 I'm more I'm more visualising this habit hole. See when I at the weekend, I just think I've worked so hard. Do you know I'm really going to relax? And I have, I'm ashamed to say I'm not ashamed. Don't. Speaker 2 I like that I'm actually. Speaker 1 Not bothering. I've got this jar that's absolutely full to the brim of sweets, so that's ready and waiting. And then I plan because, you know, you should. Downtime, isn't it? Yeah. And then, you know, what happened to E and retreat. So they're all lined up and everything. I'm sure lots of people do that. Oh yeah. And you know, the waistband does get bigger and I just enjoy it. So it's hard to break that habit when you really enjoy it. So how can I break that habit to stop eating some rubbish? I said to my husband, actually, I goes, he goes, my waistband's getting bigger. And it'll kill me for saying this on on the podcast. Why are you telling the world about my waist and and what I said to him. Well if it helps you. So is this good? I get your advice on this. I said if it helps you, you can stop buying crisps, stop buying sweets. He said that's the first thing we've got like 2 drawers full of them from Christmas till to get through. I'll probably end up giving them away but to my brother or something. But I said to him, I'll do a tray of like, celery, Peppers, yeah, cucumber and like dips, like hummus or something. Low calorie hummus, which I don't know what it's like. I hope you didn't taste like cardboard or something. But that's what I'll do instead while we're, you know, sat together and, and that that's all right. Speaker 2 Yeah, this was good. The Habits Compass: Motivation, Ability, Prompt, and Celebration So the first thing I say for getting people out that habit hole is. Speaker 1 Here's a ladder. Speaker 2 Here's a ladder. I'm pretty sure I could just hand it to you one day. One day, Amanda. So first thing is, why do you want to make change? Because what I just heard you say there is, I know I like, I shouldn't do this or like my waistline's getting bigger. But if that doesn't matter to you, there's like, no problem with it. So a lot of the time I see people wanting to make change because they think they should. And I would say, but why do you want to? Personally? No, we can't ask your husband because he's not here. But what if? Speaker 1 Do you know why? I think why would I? Do you know why I want to change? It is because I'm very conscious now of what is in a product. OK, so I, I love sweets. I'm more of a sweet person and I'm conscious of this type of sweets. So for me, it's about what's in that suite that I'm eating and how is it very good for me? Probably not. And that is why, you know, the drinks I take. So like I told you earlier on before we started that I like cans of Coca-Cola, full fat. You know, that's the point of having a diet. You know, if you're going to drink it and that's not good for you, the Sugar's not good for you. So that is why. OK. Speaker 2 Yeah, and why would that make a difference to your life? Why don't you want to be put in those things that aren't good for you in your body? Speaker 1 Because health reasons. I want to be healthy. I'm sorry because my age. Speaker 2 I'm going to get personal here. And why do you want to be healthy? Speaker 1 Because I am 57 and I want to be mobile, I want to be fit. I want I've got 6 grandchildren and my husband and I lay in bed the other night and I think I'm going to have about 14 grandchildren eventually. They reproduce like a lot. And so I think I want to be able to run around for them and I don't want to be a burden on anybody. I want to be healthy for the future. So I'm laying the stones up like I have done throughout my life, but I've got worse with eating things and I think a lot of people are like that, that I've seen more and more people eat sweets and and crisps and. Speaker 2 Rubbish because you have a quick energy. Speaker 1 Yeah, and also because I think as well from the pandemic that a lot of people enjoy those Netflix box sets, the television, there's more choice now of what to watch. So you you think at all we can watch a really good episode, you know, and, and with that comes the cinema moment of popcorn and snacks and things like that. I think a lot of people, people are doing it. I think a lot of people are taking in all that. So that is for health reasons to make me healthier for the future so that there's no underlying issues like I, I, I, you know, I don't have diabetes, but, and again, a lot of people are worried about that, you know, And the other reason I'm asking you this, this is quite interesting is years ago, just before the pandemic, where I was doing a seminar in person event. And I had a hell of a lot of people there and I gave them a sheet and I say, I want you to write down what's worrying you at the moment. Me thinking, then we're going to say my business, HR, my tax money. And I've put three things that are worrying you at the minute. And the majority of that audience put weight as the thing that there was worrying them. And I was quite shocked. So I thought, we're an HR seminar, we're talking about businesses, we're talking about that, and they're talking about weight. And then the next one was health, and then it was money. Speaker 2 Yeah. So what I've asked you to do there is I've gone deeper on the why and why and why. And the reason I do that is because that's the first step that I do with my clients because then we get to because we start with I should like I should lose weight or, and that's like a societal obligation. Like I know it's, I know it's bad for me. But what you've said there is I don't want to be a burden and I'm going to have 14 grandchildren potentially and and I want to be able to run around with them. So what you've given me there is a really crystal clear why this clear is meant to me. That's that's like rocket fuel, isn't it? When you're like, I'm reaching for that can of coke. I want to be able to run around with my 40 grandchildren. So that's the first step. But in the moment when the can of Coke comes out, you'll forget about that. Why it'll be gone. And this comes from research by a guy called BJ Fogg, who's like the godfather of. Speaker 1 That's a good name, BJ Fogg. Speaker 2 BJ Fogg, he's the godfather of behavioural design. Yeah. So he's at Stanford University and he has Says that we need three things to make a habit happen. Motivation, ability and prompt. Now I'm going to. Speaker 1 Ask you to. I'm going to write these down in a bit, so yeah, say that again. Speaker 2 So that's over motivation ability. Speaker 1 And a prompt. Speaker 2 So the first thing we've done is dial into your motivation there, which is I want to run around with the 14 grandchildren. So that's your motivation. But what we know is that motivation is not constant. It goes up and down like, yo-yo. So when I've got you to dial out like why your motivation is now like out here is it? It's like really, really big. But when you're exhausted later on and you've done film filming podcasts all day, someone says, do you want a kind of cake? You'll be like. Yes, please. It's gone. So what we do then is we change the ability. So we make the ability. So it's really easy to do. So I call it shrink it. So first always I run something called a habits compass. So if you picture a compass, it's got Y in the middle of it. So we identify that and then we shrink the habit. So we make it as small as possible. So what I do with the Coca-Cola habit is think about what are the points in time that you drink Coca-Cola? We're eating OK whenever you're eating what particular meals. Speaker 1 Tea. So like, people call it dinner now. Yeah, You know, Yeah. Tea, tea time, sat down in the evening. And then when I'm podcasting, I'll have that, you know, just because it's enjoyable. Speaker 2 Yeah, sure. So I put 1 moment in time and then switch it for something else. Speaker 1 OK. Speaker 2 And what is it that you enjoy about Coca-Cola? Speaker 1 Fizz. Speaker 2 OK, so that's what we do. We switch it for something fizzy. Now I've got a name of something that is on the Zoe app, but it's escape me right now. We'll have to look it up. But something fizzy, which is low, no calories, you can get like fizzy waters, something that's in a nice can, a really nice product. That's why it's switching for because if you're liking the fizz, you like the can. If you like that it's cold, you can replace all those things and switch it out for something that's better and just pick one point in time to start with so that when we've done that, we've shrunk it down and then we've attached it to your day. That's the other thing people don't do. So they're like, I want to, I want to go to the gym, for example, but it's like a floating intention because you've got really busy lives and it's like, but you've got to nail down exactly when it's going to be. Now we've just done that because you said maybe we'll switch out the one that you have at tea or maybe we'll switch out the one you have when you're doing your podcast. So we start with one moment in time. So we call it attach it to your life. And then we have to think of the blockers. So what's going to get in the way? Speaker 1 What's going to get in way of me not doing that? Yeah, it's just visualising coke I think is just that's the I associate it I think with just relaxing, OK, having fun. Speaker 2 Yeah, OK. Speaker 1 So I think I don't know what the blockers would be. It's me that's blocking it. It's. I don't know how to explain that one actually. Speaker 2 No, that's absolutely fine. And actually make a really good point there because what I asked people to do is to go and run a habits experiment. Because when we run a habits experiment, I'll say just go and try it for a week and you'll come back to me and be like, it didn't happen because maybe my husband was like, go on, I'm having one. You have one. You were like, oh, that was the blocker. I didn't have it. I didn't have something else in the fridge. And so and so knows I like it. So they're trying to be nice to me. So then we can run it again and go, right, This is how we need to overcome those blockers. So we've got to speak to husband and say we're in the evening when you offer me that drink, I'm going to have this instead. So can you offer it to me? Can you go and buy that for me? So, so then we've overcome the blocker. You might need to tell the crew that are helping you with the podcast, like I don't want to drink Coke anymore, so can you offer me something else? And then we've started to unpick those blockers. But really interestingly, it's really hard to visualise the blockers because like I said, motivation sky high. You're like, why can't I just? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Do this so it's like, so then we get into the blockers once we run that habits experiment and then the last thing we need to do is feed the habit. So all the literature says that what we should do after having drank a can of something else, our preferred fizzy drink, which is nice and sparkly, but not with all the nasties in. How are you going to feel? What you should do is celebrate. And when you celebrate, it's like sprinkling dopamine on those, on those neural connections in your brain. And that habit gets stronger. So we get it to get stronger quicker. But when I ask people to celebrate and they just look at me like an absolutely crazy because they're like, you want me to celebrate. They didn't go and get the can of Coke. Like, yeah, that's what I want you to do. So I think maybe culturally in the UK, we find celebrating small things hard and awkward. I had a client once, I got her drinking green smoothies, and she was like, you want me to celebrate every time I go and drink a glass of green sludge? And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what I want you to do. And she was like, people climb up Everest, Rebecca, it's not going to happen. The Power of Celebration and the Science of the Morning Walk Well, I will instruct you there and say I was brought up by a mother that would celebrate everything. So if we were having my dad was Royal Marine who's away a lot. So what should we do to to boost our energy is she'd wake us up like really early and she'd go, it's the dog's birthday today and, and I'd be like, oh, and I think, what am I going to wear? And you know, and we'd have like a present. We'd do like a but we'd make a cake and do sandwiches and celebrate the dog's birthday or the Guinea pigs birthday or the teddy bears birthday just to we celebrate. So actually, I come from a family that celebrates everything, every single thing. So I will celebrate like not drinking. I will tell you in a positive, I've gone from six cans of Coke a day to maybe no some days with none to one or two through just a little bit of what you've said. But you've but not you've given me so much more today to manage it. And I think I can get to the point where I can give it a, you know, for after 40, after 31 years, they're 41 years. Actually, I have to work out my age, but. Speaker 2 I'm going to find I'm going to find the brand that you should be drinking. The other thing when people say I can't celebrate it, I I asked them just to notice what they gained when they didn't choose the Coke. So, and it's the same effect as celebrating. So I didn't have the coke. I had this instead. How notice what you gained. Now obviously you're not going to gain weight loss in that moment or you know, extreme health, but often people go, I just felt like quite good about myself. Or actually, I noticed that I did enjoy the drink that I did choose. Or I noticed after 5 minutes I actually didn't need it at all and I felt lighter. That's how I get that a lot. I felt lighter. Yeah. So by noticing just in the moment how you feel, because otherwise we're noticing the long term gain. And if we notice that that short term gain, like going for the walk in the morning, which is so hard to do, but you probably come back feeling a bit smug. Speaker 1 Are your reward strategies attractive to today's workforce? With our rewards service, you get data-driven insights on market pay, help meeting your compliance needs like gender pay, gap reporting and expert consultancy to shape a fairer and more competitive pay strategy. Because the right pay and rewards decisions don't just tick boxes, they help you attract, motivate and keep the best people. Contact us today to find out more. You know, that's one really big thing I'm going to take away from you today is that more morning morning walk because I didn't realise and I don't think anybody, if you did, hats off to you. But I never realised the importance of that light in the morning and I'm 100% going to do that, you know, to walk in the morning when the sun is rising, to have that time on and peace as well, because it's peace isn't. Speaker 2 It so much peace, yeah. And if you can do it without Earpods in like and and just be and let your thoughts roam and it's uncomfortable like that first 10 minutes, but it gets so much easier. And what I will say about that is if you were working at home, it's even more important to get out because here in in the studio, we've got really bright lights. So light is measured by lux and that's the light pressure that hits the back of your eye. But in a Home Office environment, your lux is, is much less than it is in an office environment. So it's, it's so easy to wake up in the morning, isn't it? And just plug away at that anxiety producing task and think this is the answer. But going outside for like ideally it's half an hour, but if it's 10 minutes, fine. The other thing it does is we get visual flow going past our eyes when we're walking. And that's called the scientific term for it is forward ambulation, which I, I just love I. Speaker 1 Love that. Yeah, I've never heard that. Speaker 2 Before So what it does is it calms the amygdala, which is your lizard part of your brain that fight or flight centre in your, in your middle of your, your brain and it calms that. So then you can access the prefrontal cortex, all that creative energy, all your did you say 565757, all your 57 years of experience, You can then access it. So when you're feeling anxious about a task, we often know going for a walk makes us feel better, but we don't know why. Well, it's that daylight forward ambulation, calming the which basically means it just calms that anxiety. So you can access that prefrontal cortex and that creative part of the mind. Scientific studies have found that when we walk in nature, it just massively produce boosts our creativity. Speaker 1 That's incredible, you know, just that that's so interesting. Breathing Techniques to Release Diaphragm and Calm the Vagus Nerve I could have you here for, I think we need 2 episodes, but I just find it so interesting and it just, there's so many things I want to ask you like when, you know, not just for HR, but somebody who can't sit down, you know, they're on the go. And then they're, they're, they're, they're so hyped up that they can't stop and they feel like they can't relax. And there's so many people out there and it's a form of anxiety, isn't it, where, you know, you just feel like you should be doing something you should be like, and you just can't relax. Yeah. What, what, what tips have you got for that? Absolutely. Speaker 2 You're going to have to get on my Pilates teacher. Her name's Claire Sparrow. She's absolutely brilliant, so. But I will tell you some of the things that she has imparted onto me. So if you're in that hyped up state all the time, I'm going to be in that hyped up state after I come out speaking to you because it's been very exciting. So we get stuck in the fight, fight or flight state. So what happens is we breathe up high in the chest here. And we even have phrases for that, which is like I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders. We've got a pain in the neck because we're breathing from up high here. So what we need to do is we need to release our diaphragm. So for those of you who are listening, I'm now grabbing under my ribs. Can't get under your ribs with your fingers. Yeah, yeah. And if you lean forward, she. Speaker 1 Can't get under my. Speaker 2 Ribs. Yeah, just lean for whatever. So slightly, that's so your diaphragm really tells us. So lean forward and then just lightly breathe in and out. And what we're doing there is we're releasing the diaphragm. OK. How are we? Yeah. And the diaphragm just gets completely stuck. Yeah, that's it. And we take the in breath and an out breath. And what I ask people to do often is to at the end of the day, they can lie face down on the floor, brush teeth, then in your pyjamas, lie face down the floor. You can get a ball of socks and just lay with the socks like a new diaphragm to release it. And when you're laying face down, it pins your shoulders to the floor. So it means you're not then breathing from up here. I'm a complete chest breather. So I'm really bad. So then you release that diaphragm. Now why do you want to release that diaphragm? Well, the diaphragm and we have this, this vagus nerve, which you probably heard of that. Speaker 1 Never heard of it. Speaker 2 OK, the vagus nerve travels through the diaphragm. It's the longest nerve in the body. It it travels to the middle of the brain again. And when we release the diaphragm, when we breathe from the diaphragm, we massage the vagus nerve and massaging the vagus nerve gets our body to tell our brain I'm safe. So we get literally get stuck in that fight or flight and we need to communicate back to our brain, Oh no, it's all right. We're not under threat like you think we are because we've been rushing around all day. So that's one of my top tips I get people to do just before you go to bed, get hold of that diaphragm massager. There's all sorts of Pilates, yoga, breathing techniques you can do, but it doesn't need to be more complicated than that. And what that does is it helps you sleep so much better as well. But stressful meeting, rushing around in your car, whatever you're doing, that terrible grievance conversation. I remember those days well to. Speaker 1 Offload. Speaker 2 Just do it then just before that meeting. Speaker 1 So that that diaphragm, yeah. And breathe it. Speaker 2 So you want to breathe out? Oh. Speaker 1 Sorry. Speaker 2 Breathe out for longer and slower than you breathed in for so now. Speaker 1 Heat it again for the camera again, just so everybody knows. So stressful meeting, holding a disciplinary investigation. Speaker 2 Yeah. So I would say breathe in for a count of four. Yeah. And out for a count of eight. You can do something else where you breathe. In for a count of four, hold for seven, and out for. Speaker 1 8 Like square breathing. Speaker 2 Square breathing, but we can get really obsessed with all the fancy breathing techniques and I'm not a breathing technique expert. What I would say is just make sure you breathe in and out through the nose. In through the nose is the most important bit coming out through the mouth and just make that out breath longer and slower than the in breath. And if you can access that diaphragm, do and then breathe out from. Life Mottos, Future Habits, and How to Work with Rebecca There I don't think that we've covered enough today if if I'm completely honest with you because we've we've spoke about habits, but we've you've got so much to talk more to tellers, haven't you would you come back? Of course I would. Episode 2. Speaker 2 Yeah, of course I would. Speaker 1 What are you covering episode 2? Speaker 2 Oh. Speaker 1 I let you think about. Let me think. Speaker 2 About it. Speaker 1 Because I think HR will. I think they'll love this today. Speaker 2 They loved it. Yes, I. Speaker 1 I I know you had a a big webinar yesterday, didn't you, and you were helping loads of people in HR, But I, I know that today I've I'm my phone is playing next to my bed. It does. I like going on the Mind Pal app, so I play games like, you know, grammar games because I do spelling, word search. I love it. I think it's just like, because I think it helps your brain. Yeah. So it also makes me relaxed. So, but I don't really want to do that before I go to sleep. So I think for people listening, that habits changed. I do on my webinars. Talk about old fashioned alarm clocks. Don't use your phone. They're the ones that ring. And I suppose yours is much nicer with the bird tweeting. Speaker 2 But people get obsessed with the perfection of getting lovely. I waited for a 40th birthday to get that alarm clock. I've wanted it for ages. And so we don't need to start with perfect. No, that is the thing. And I think we're we're so I want to be so perfect at work. Don't we with your habits Like, no, we've got to be no, it doesn't even need to be 80% there. You know, 50% of the time is enough. Speaker 1 Hi, you. Because I used to do this, but when I knew I was, I knew that I was going to have this podcast with you. And we should have had it before, but the bad weather was really bad. We had that bad day and I thought I'm going to bring in one of those and I wanted to feedback on tell you about this. But it's something I used to do and I've started doing it again now and I'm doing it every day before I have my coffee in the morning. I have one coffee a day. It's in the morning. But before I have that coffee. And you'll be glad to know I've gone back into the, the routine, I'll say, of having hot water, honey and fresh lemon every morning as soon as I wake up. So that's what I have. So I'll, I'll, so next time we meet and we will meet. That's a promise. Yeah, we'll do episode 2 of this and we'll bring in some more tips for HR and P for anybody listening because people stumble across this the HR is podcast and we'll we'll our feedbacks you have done with my walk and everything. Oh, I'd love that. But I don't think we've seen the last of you on this podcast. But I do ask. There's so much more I want to ask you, but I want to ask you a couple of things, which is the first one is what's your motto that you live by and share it with our audience, if you don't mind? I ask everybody at the end of a a podcast, not a webinar. Speaker 2 When I was deciding, you know, what direction I wanted to go in, the phrase that always comes to mind is be part of the solution, not part of the problem. And I absolutely love what I do because I feel like I'm offering solutions to people which they don't need to spend money on, they find really hard. The world's saturated with stuff. We know we've all got to change how we're working. We're all sick of being in a scroll doom hole. We're all sick of eating food that makes us feel rubbish. So I am selling the very basics of what we need to do to make ourselves feel better. So that's what I've set out to do, to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. And I feel like that's why I love. I do what I do and I absolutely love. Speaker 1 It is that sure. So have you got another motto as. Speaker 2 Well, yeah, so my dad was really good at imparting mottos onto US. His favourite is decide what you want and then we'll make it happen. Me and my mum are quite indecisive, so yeah, it's. Speaker 1 Very. Oh, so it's like a thing? Yeah. Speaker 2 It's like. Speaker 1 Decide what you want, yeah. Speaker 2 But it doesn't sit with that one alone. It also sits with Have a plan or you'll be part of somebody else's good. Speaker 1 Those are brilliant. Last question you having for tea tonight. Speaker 2 Oh my goodness, I have no idea because I might do some more shopping and get back really late so but I. Speaker 1 Don't have any sugar? Speaker 2 No, I would say I'm a massive batch cooker, so there is always something in the freezer that's good. I've batched, cooked and that is one of my Otherwise family life would completely fall apart. A completely fall. Speaker 1 Apart, I think we need to peel back social media, don't we? Our next one. I just thought about that. We we've touched. Speaker 2 On Oh yeah, we really need to go for that. There's so much we could have done. Speaker 1 Right. So, Rebecca, how can people work with you? Speaker 2 So three ways people can work with me so they can contact me, we can do a one to one coaching session. So I do a free discovery call and they can find out if that's for them. A lot of work with people on procrastination. One of my favourite topics, weight loss comes up time and time again. And now how do you come off as MPEC Monjaro, the weight loss jabs. Oh really? Yeah, I was really worried to work with people first. I'm not medical, I made that very clear. But it is. You need to define new habits as you come off those, and that is what I do and I've had great success in getting people to come off. Speaker 1 Them, they're fantastic. Speaker 2 Yeah, so coaching 1 to 1 coach, you're going to do all sorts of things, but those are the most, those are the three most popular at the moment. And then corporate work. So I go into charities and corporates. I have all sorts of clients and I'll do a one hour to 90 minute workshop and the people in the room love to talk about habits, even a corporate setting. You just won't believe it. And then I get people to come out with a really clear habits experiment that they're going to run after the session. Well, that's fantastic. So I loved I do all sorts of sessions on on that. One of my really popular ones is on rumination and how you manage your thought loops. But the the energy one is is the most common one that I roll out. That's like my flagship. Speaker 1 The one to ones, yeah, Even if people aren't near you because you're based in Ipswich. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 Can they do them online with you? Yeah, of course. Oh yeah. Brilliant. That's fantastic. Speaker 2 We work online and then if people are nearby, sometimes do walk in coaching. But yeah, that's absolutely fine. And then I also run a group which is called Rooted Tuesdays because coaching can be a bit. Exclusive So I run this group and we ran it so cheaply. I ran it with a gorgeous woman called Dorothy Matthew and she was an HR director for Asda. She's a very clever woman. And we ran it like a book club. So we only charge the same prices you pay for like a yoga lesson. And we do a 12 week course and that's at 7:30 on Zoom. So check out my website, habitsense.co.uk and you can find out when we're running the next session. And then we do 12 weeks. We read a chapter of this book called Body Thrive by Kate Stillman, which is an Ayurvedic inspired book. And the reason we use that is because in Ayurveda they had these habits well nailed down before the modern science caught up. So we've got this lovely blonde of bringing the kind of ancient wish wisdom and the modern day science. Then we get a group together, accountability. We have a lot of fun and everyone is so relieved when they find out just the same as everybody else. Thank you. Speaker 1 That's fantastic. That's great. That's how people can work with you. Yeah. Thank you.