Speaker 1Hello and welcome to the Pulpit Fiction Podcast, the lectionary podcast for preacher-seekers and Bible geeks. Today is episode 699 for November 15th, 2026. It's proper 28, ordinary time, 33, the 35th Sunday after Pentecost here in year A. Beloved, we are going to kick off with Matthew 25, verses 14 through 30. It is the parable of the talents. Then we're going to move to 1 Thessalonians 5, verses 1 through 11, like a thief in the night. Now, the third reading is from Judges, it's chapter 4, 1 through 7. We're not going to discuss that on this show. However, you can find notes as well as past commentary all at pulpitfiction.com. I'm Eric Chrysler, UCC pastor out here on the shining shores of Crystal Lake. And with me, as always, it's the marvelous Methodist from Rock Island, Illinois, Rob McCoy. Rob, what's happening, man?
Speaker 2Hey, I don't know if I'm going to be able to claim that title much longer. If Reverend Adam Hamilton becomes a senator tomorrow, I think he's much more marvelous than I. But we'll see.
Speaker 1It is tomorrow. Yeah, election day is tomorrow.
Speaker 2We're recording this on the 2nd, so yeah. I don't want to get too much into that. It made me wonder, you know, we were debating whether or not we should record today or tomorrow. And it would have been interesting to record tomorrow in the midst, although we'd be doing it in the early afternoon, so there won't be many returns or anything. But part of me wondered if it would be interesting to do a live election response show either Tuesday night or Wednesday morning or something like that. I don't know if anyone would be at all interested. We're not exactly political pundits. But anyway. But yeah, instead, we did release our two interviews with him. Yeah. Hopefully you noticed that in your podcast feed. We talked to him at two different occasions back ages ago, and yet both conversations remarkably timely, even still.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was surprising kind of going back, looking at it. And those conversations. So just to give you a little bit of a teaser, friends. So the first one we had was in 2014. It was right after the killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson. I want to say Florissant, which is the town right next to it. But no, Ferguson, Missouri. And we had an interesting conversation because that's just the other end of the state from Adam Hamilton. He's in Kansas City, of course. And Leewood Park, but all that Kansas City kind of area. But the two are very intrinsically connected. St. Louis and that. And we had just had a really it was interesting to hear his response to that and and what to do and how to address and what does it mean to be prophetic and pastoral at the same time and work for long term transformation, which was really excellent. And then we had a chance to talk with him two years later about his in 2016, which I can't believe was 10 years ago, but about a variety of different things. But touching back on some of those same issues two years after that, as well as his new book. At that time, which was Half Truths, an excellent book, still worthy for folks if you're looking for a great preaching series and a combination of that and some adult education, it's great. So, yeah, there were some really good conversations and none of those conversations, Rob, had to deal with the fact that he was ever going to be running for Senate, which just seems ridiculous, much less the fact that he would even have a chance to win the Senate in Kansas. And yet this is where we are. And all of you listening who are not joining. Us live right now will have to tell us how that all how that all shook out at the end. But it will be kind of fun. We I don't know if we'll do a live election thing, but if so, you'll see that pop up on on Wednesday if we decide to throw that in there. So, yeah, other good all sorts of good stuff. And Rob, just a little spoiler. You know, this is the episode for Sunday, November 15th, which means that next week is Sunday, November 22nd, which is the end of year A. It is also it is Christ the King. Sunday. It is the Sunday before Thanksgiving. And for this particular podcast, it is our 700th episode, which seems a little absurd.
Speaker 2Yeah, 700 episodes. And of course, it doesn't count the that's just a sequential lectionary weekly podcast. It doesn't count the narrative lectionary, the four years of narrative, the many interviews we've done. I we've got I think we've done almost a hundred interviews.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. Together, we're
Speaker 2we have over a thousand episodes. Um, with the two different titles and the interviews and academies and all that kind of stuff. And we've taken a break from the interviews for a little while. I know we will probably get back to it eventually. But, uh, anyway, uh, yeah, 700 episodes. Uh, it's, it's pretty wild. And, you know, between before we do that, we'll be doing our, uh, keynote stuff at Missouri Mid-South Conference. Um, excited about that. And just remind people that, you know, we're available. We, I want to build it. We're going to build it. We're going to build a place on the website where people can get more information about how to book that and what we have to offer. But if you've got a speaking engagement, a conference, an event of some sort, and you think, uh, what we do is worth sharing. Um, we don't just sit down and have a podcast discussion. We, we, I mean, if, if you want us to do that, we absolutely could. And we've done live shows on location before, um, at Wild Goose and some other places. Uh, but if you're. If you're interested and, uh, yeah, we, I mean, we're, we're willing and able. And I, and I think we do a pretty good job with it. We'll, you know, we're not super experienced with that kind of thing, but, uh, we certainly, uh, have some, some preaching in our, under our belt over the years. So, um, excited about, uh, our journey to St. Charles, Missouri in a few days though.
Speaker 1Yeah. Really looking forward to that. That's going to be great. So excited to be with all those, uh, folks from the Missouri Mid-South Conference. But right now we're going to turn to some good news. All right, friends. Well, the good news this week, as we said at the top of the show, comes from the gospel of Matthew. We're here again in chapter 25. I'm pretty sure we're going to be back in chapter 25 even again next week. But right now let's dig in. It's Matthew 25. It's verses 1 through 5. It's verses 14 through 30. It's verses 1 through 30.
Speaker 2I think that's all we need to say about this. A hundred percent sure. Yeah. No, this is, I mean, this is one of those tricky ones where the plain reading does seem very simple. And yet I think we know that this is one of the, where it feels right. And then it feels wrong because it feels too right. You know, like it's too easy to just jump in that. I don't think this is, um, this is not prosperity gospel. This is not. free market capitalist Jesus. one of a series of parables that, you know, we've been saying this over last week. We'll say it again next week as these are three parables right in a row in chapter 25 that are all about the sort of getting ready for the return and what that means that somebody leaves and they're coming back and what is it going to look like? And to be prepared last week with the oil was a tricky one that we talked a lot about. Next week, the coming back and were you prepared was, did you do things that you didn't even realize you were doing, right? You were just doing it to the least of these. But here we've got three slaves that are given money. They're given stewardship over a coin and what they do with it then is judged and judged fairly harshly for their inaction. And I think there is, um, this is, you know, as I'm hearing this, this is a tricky parable for any church that's got an endowment. Um, because I think part of this is, you know, I mean, we can get into some of the details, but like my first reaction, first reading is, um, don't be scared to take risks, right? This, this kingdom that you're entrusted with is something that, uh, is worth, um, worth giving you, pouring yourself whole, pouring everything into. Um, it's not just something to guard and, you know, worry about maintenance. Um, but we should be about mission and should be about, um, you know, a growth mentality in the sense of growing service, growing, um, you know, uh, ways that you can reach out as opposed to just the sort of hide and protect. And I think, um, you know, maybe that's reading to literally the sort of, uh, investment kind of, um, message here, but, uh, that's, that's, that was my first reading is the sort of fear for those that just think, you know, playing it safe and saving up is the way to go.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think it's, uh, so both, and first of all, I want to say is endowments are, I am actually, I mean, I'm a huge proponent of church endowments, especially now, um, in the midst of the greatest transfer of wealth that the nation has ever seen and ever will see, but endowments cannot simply be, I mean, I also know too many churches that have died with millions of dollars in the bank. And I think, what were you, why, what are you doing? You know? And I know churches that also decided to close and they said, we're going to close, uh, we're, we're declining and we're going to take our endowment and we're going to spend our two years giving it all away. And I know two churches that have decided to close and they said, we're going to both of those churches, they'd all decided they were going to close. And the act of giving away that endowment actually caused those churches with, with, you know, and they did it discerningly and with intention. And those churches actually ended up growing beyond all expectation, uh, from that experience. Uh, but I do think that your piece, so as much as it's endowments, you know, I, I do think that, uh, how we, how we deal with money, how we deal with what we've been given. And I'm not sure how much of this actually has to do with money, but I will say it, it does convict to this idea that you bring up Rob, this motivation of fear. Right. And I do think that that is actually, you know, in this, this aversion to risk and this attitude of, of fear, which is everything that's controlling this third servant. But I'm curious, Rob, too, is this, you know, it's hard not to, not to think of money, but really, I think what we really have to think about here is this is beyond money. And this is one, where the common English Bible gets it wrong. I'm just going to say it right there. It gets it wrong. Most of us know this. In fact, we said this at the top of the show, the parable of the talents. Now here's the, here's the tricky thing about that. Rob is every time you preach the terrible, the terrible, the parable of the talents often, then especially during stewardship season, what do people love to turn to in the midst of stewardship season, time and talents, time and talents. See, this is look at, he's giving out talents as time and talent and all of that thing. Now, time and talent is important, but I would say, especially in the Protestant church, we've been so averse to prosperity gospel that too often time and talent is at the cost of never talking about money. And Jesus preaches and talks about money second only to the kingdom of God. However, and in this passage, there's a couple of things. First of all, the generosity of what's happening here cannot be this is not a coin. When we're talking about talent, we're not talking about someone's talent, like playing music in church on Sunday to give their time and talents. A talent was actually a denomination. It's funny because, you know, if you think like a valuable coin, you know, we might think of, um, you know, I don't know, a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars, things like that. Right. So this valuable coin better translated as one talent was the equivalent Rob of 20 years worth of wages, right? So the one who's given five talents, that's a hundred years worth of wages.
Speaker 2Yeah. It's interesting because part of it is like the amount doesn't matter, but then it's like, well, maybe it does. Cause that's an awful lot. Like, you know, again, it's a, it doesn't, it doesn't kind of thing. Like the valuable coin I get it's because talent feels confusing and, um, you know, maybe the total amount doesn't matter, but when the amount is that hugely huge, that feels like it matters.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so, I mean, just let, let, I just want to put that quickly in us context right here. Right. Um, and, and I want you to, to, to let's, let's just explore this a little bit. Okay. So what is, what does that look like? Uh, it looks like, um, you know, after the man left, let's see to one of the, to one of the three million dollars, right. To, to the other servant, uh, he gave, uh, only $3 million. And to the last servant, he gave one and a half million dollars. I mean, that, that is the equivalent today's equivalency of what this is, right? I mean, it's outrageous, right? This is, this is an astronomical amount of money. And, and I think this is important because we're not actually talking about dollars and cents here. What we're talking about is the incredible gift that God has given us, right? These, these amazing, um, gift that is beyond our wildest imaginations, especially for those whom Jesus is talking with here. Right. And the question is out of everything that you have been given, all of the grace, all of the love, all of, uh, the talents, you know, actual talents, right? Your intellect, your creativity, your joy, your curiosity, all of those things that God has given you, which, equals to, is more valuable than you could possibly imagine. And the question then is, what did you do with that? Right? This is part of the eschatological discourse in which he's, Jesus is kind of speaking more and more in this dualistic sense, you know, to next week, we're going to talk about sheep, sheep and goats. Last week, it was the good bridesmaids versus the other bridesmaids, right? So here's this one too, where we, we have this kind of duality, but the question is, what did you do with it? What did you do with this beautiful, fleeting, gift of life, right? This, this one beautiful moment, um, that you have been given, have you used the love and the grace that you have given to multiply it or have you kept it all for yourself? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2I mean, and are you, is there, there's an element of joyful, um, like celebration here as well, as opposed to fear. Like you said, there's a, there's an element of, you know, if you think that the world is, uh, if you're operating in this element of scarcity and, and, um, you know, losing is, um, the worst thing that can happen. Um, and you, you fear punishment and you fear reprisal, then, then that's, that affects how you operate. That affects your mission. It affects your ministry that affects everything in your life. But if instead you receive with joy and then, um, share and, you know, and, and, uh, give and, and do the things that, uh, it takes to, to grow, then there's something else. I mean, the thing is, it's still, it's so hard to not just get wrapped up in these sort of, and maybe I'm just trying to, I'm being too careful, um, to get wrapped up in this sort of capitalist, like American dream kind of, um, interpretation of this is like, because especially at the end, when it's like, well, we'll give you, you know, the one that, uh, has done well, we'll get more. Um, this feels like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And those who are poor are poor because that, you know, because of, you know, their choices or because they're lazy, you know, or because of, and that's why it's important that this isn't like a macro economics lesson. This is a story about, you know, this is the three little pigs, you know, that kind of thing. Like this isn't, you know, that's not really a story about, you know, that's not really a story about architecture, right. It's, you know, it's a story about preparedness and, and other things, where this isn't really a story about financial investment plans. It's a story about being faithful and being faithful or being fearful. And it uses this metaphor to help tell the story.
Speaker 1Okay, but could you lean into the investment piece? So bear with me here, right? Which is how you invest the love, grace, hope, and justice that God has given you. Like, take it out of the dollars and cents things, right? Like, we want to talk about investments, good investments, bad investments. The stock market is at an all-time high right now. Well, it was at an all-time high. It's still the highest that it's been in a long time, all these sort of things, right? So the question is that a lot of people in the pews may be, I mean, know your context. Some folks may be, some may not. But if folks in your pews are tuned into this and you know they're going to hear that, Rob, what does it look like to lean in and say, okay, you talk to your financial advisors and whomever about how to invest your money and all of those sorts of things. That actually isn't what Jesus is talking here. Jesus is talking here about how you're going to invest your life. Yeah. So tell me how you're going to invest your life. You think it's, you know, you put your money into the stock market, which is a risky venture and things like that. Okay, you've been given this innumerable, this massive gift. How are you going to do that to make sure that you're, you're building the dividends for the kingdom? And what those dividends are is not the dollars and cents, right? It's not about the money piece. It's about how are we making sure that, you know, to lean into next week, which is going to come after this, how are we going to make sure that everybody who's hungry has enough to eat? That everybody who's thirsty has enough to drink? That all of those who are strangers are welcome? That the prisoners are visited? What does that begin to look like? That justice is not just something we talk about, but something we embody and we do and we build into all of our, our different political systems, right? And gatherings and communities and things like that. What does that look like? Because I, it, it builds off somewhat of last week, right? And the idea of the women who, the, the, the bridesmaids who left, right? And we talked about that last week that they, they got worried, they panicked and then they left. And so the question was, was it that they ran out of oil or was it the fact that they left? Well, then this week, it's a question of that same idea of fear, right? Do we take all these things? Do we take it only for our own good, right? Or do we do it for others? This, I think, is part of the extraordinary thing, Rob, is, which I think undermines, undercuts, and, and this idea of prosperity, gospel investment, which is when the master comes, what do they do? What do they do with all this, you know, supposed wealth that they've amassed? Yeah, they gave it back to them. They immediately give it back, right? The whole point of this investing thing isn't for us. It isn't for us. It isn't for our church, right? We invest our lives for the goodness of God.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the story, they're still slaves. Yeah. Right? I mean, they're, they're, they're not rich. Um, they're, what's richer is the kingdom. Yep. Um, and maybe that's, yeah, I mean, that, what, the, the point of all of this is to make the kingdom richer, but not the, not the individuals. And this needs to be held in tension with, you know, don't store up your treasures. You know, don't store, don't put your treasures in storehouses, but bring, bring in your, you know, build up your treasures in heaven and, and these things, these are other elements that are clearly, um, about being careful with wealth. I mean, this is, um, you can't just read this parable and then jump into prosperity gospel. I mean, you can, people do all the time. Um, but I think holding an intention with these other stories is important. And like you said, remember that the point of it is, is at the end of the story, they are, none of them, none of the individuals are, are rich. They're all still working for, uh, the kingdom. And so when we talk about kingdom work, um, you know, that's one of those things that I think about in my church now too. Like there's a lot of mission and ministry we do that isn't necessarily about our congregation. It's about kingdom work. What are we doing to, you know, when I, when we reach out and build connect, when I'm, I've been working hard to try to build connections with the other affirming congregations in our community. Um. When we do things at a pride event, we're not putting out our shingle, so to speak. You know, we're not putting, we're putting, we're saying this is who we are as a group of churches. Um, and here's the map where you can find them, but we're not, you know, it's not just about looking, come and see two rivers and how affirming and wonderful we are. Um, when we, uh, do, you know, United Methodist connection stuff, it's not about let's build up our youth program. It's let's get some kids together so they can, um. You know, experience the joy of a, of a big group that we, that we might not ever in our church. Right. And, and, but it's kingdom investment, not just our local church investment. And I think that's an element here that, um, is worth exploring too, in this day and age of, uh, how many of our churches have extraordinary resources. Um, but we still are in this competitive mode. Um, and you know, we don't have a gym. Um. The church, you know, the other church down the road does, and maybe we can work together and use that, you know, we've, we've got, we've got a wonderful meal on Saturday, but we can't feed people at the other six days of the week. Um, but maybe there's another church that's working on Sunday and, you know, maybe we can start filling the blanks and that, those kinds of things. But if we're just holding on to what we've got and are not willing to share or invest or, um, we're just gonna wrap it up in a, you know, what did he do? You know? We're just gonna bury it, bury what we've got so that nobody else can take it, um, because we're afraid all the time. Um, there's not a lot of kingdom work that's happening there.
Speaker 1Yeah. I mean, it's that scarcity mindset versus an abundance mindset. Now, you know, we had talked about this a little bit last week, but I also think that there's an aspect of, yes, you know, at the end of the day, you say, you know, there's still slaves, which is true, but the other two are invited to come and celebrate in the party. Right. And I would argue that, that what's being happening here is not necessarily, uh, this, this judgment, right. That's, that's coming down as much as it's the recognition that participating in that sharing of resources, in that sharing of love and grace and justice and all the things you were talking about that you're doing with those other churches, Rob, in that we are participating in the kingdom of God. We are celebrating in, not only are we helping build, but as we're building it, we're celebrating in the kingdom of God when we don't do that, when we fall into that scarcity mindset. Yeah. When we see churches only as competitors instead of as potential partners, then we, we can't participate in the kingdom of God. It's one of those pieces that reminds me of like C.S. Lewis's great divorce, right? It's not, it's a question of, of what are we able to do? Right. And in that regard, we can't participate in that kingdom. And so, and so we have the same piece that when there is this, when we are controlled by fear, what do we do, Rob? We weep and gnash our teeth against one another. This is where this person is going, right? They're out where they're gnashing in teeth, but it's the idea of being invited to participate, come and do this. This is what God longs for us to do. And so I think that it's, it's one of those where as much as it seems like, well, this is just the harsh judgment that the other piece too is Rob, that I think is important. You know, as you're talking about that is notice how the servant changes the story and changes the narrative. Well, the servant has been given the equivalent of like a million and a half dollars. And yet when the master comes back, he says, all he does is say, well, I was afraid because you're a terrible person, right? It wasn't the servant didn't do anything wrong. It was you who did something wrong. And I was afraid of you and it was you that were so fearful. That's what caused me to do this. Right. And it's, and even though in this story, every evidence in the story is the exact opposite. It shows somebody who is exceedingly generous, not this person of cheating judgment that they're characterized as. Yeah. It's interesting.
Speaker 2Yeah. It's interesting too. When you compare this to Luke 19, 11 through 27, uh, this is one of those rare stories that's in Matthew and Luke and not Mark. Um, there's not a lot of, it's a good old Q story. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's yeah. And, um, but they treat it. They treat it differently and they put it in different places and there's some, there's some really interesting details that are different. And, uh, I think a lot of times you can draw some things out of that. I mean, Matthew's putting this as this in the set of apocalyptic stories or these, you know, this, uh, in the context of the return, uh, Luke puts it in the, on the journey to Jerusalem, um, much more in a context that's much more critical of explicitly critical of wealth. In particular, it's, it's, it's a fascinating difference and the, uh, they're given all the same amount, um, but then have different returns as opposed to, uh, yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting, it's an interesting, uh, juxtaposition to look at how these two stories are treated very similarly. You know, it's one story treated very similarly, uh, by Matthew and Luke, um, and put in different places in the, in the story too.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. - Absolutely, yeah. So it's worthy of your preaching on this. I think that's right to kind of bring those pieces back and, and examine those friends. There's, there's more in here, um, that you can find. Oh, there's a great quote in here. I'm just gonna throw that out there. The quote, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the sin of respectable people is running away from responsibility. That's like, that's a great line for this one, right? The sin of respectable people is running away from responsibility. Of course we hear that in, uh, you know, that, um, uh, what is it that, that what we have to fear is not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends, right? There's a, I can't remember. There's a misquoting that, but y'all know what I'm getting at there. Uh, there's so much more. You can go find all of that over at pulpitfiction.com. Go check that out. A lot of those other quotes, uh, resources, all that good stuff again, over at pulpitfiction.com. But right now I want to take a minute and talk to you about our sponsor. It's Sanctified Art, and, uh, we've been talking a bit now for about the Until the Dawn Actions for the Work of Advent, and I hope that friends by now, unless you have a totally other plan for Advent, which is great if you do, that, um, you've already gone over to Sanctified Art and maybe you've already gotten the bundle. Until the Dawn Actions for the Work of Advent. So many just unbelievable resources, artistic resources, liturgical resources, preaching resources, intergenerational resources, all sorts of great stuff. To carry you not only through Advent, but Advent, Christmas, and Epiphany. Uh, it's all there, and if you use the code pulpitfiction at checkout, that'll save you 15%. But here's the thing. Say you're on the line. Ah, you just don't know. Is this really it for you? Maybe you were thinking about something else. Well, this is what I want to do. I'm going to actually show, see if I can share the screen here, because I want to show you this new piece. Hold on, friends. Bear with me. Uh, hold on. We're going to stop this. Okay. Here we go. We're going to share this. Give me a sec, Rob. Because I just found this awesome thing out. Okay. So hopefully y'all can see this amazing, um, bundle that's going on right now. Not just the bundle, but there is an Until the Dawn, a planning webinar. They recorded a webinar just in the last couple of weeks. And the nice thing is this talks about, first of all, it has all of the guests, contributors, and so many of the people that helped put this amazing bundle together. And they all have a chance to talk about, um, what's going on. What they did, how they brought these different pieces in. It talks about how they developed this bundle and the theological integrity that went in there. It explores all of the different resources, gives you an overview of all of those materials. And one of my favorite parts about their webinars is that if you look here at the end, it says they had crowdsource ideas, questions, and answers. And there's a premiere of that theme song. And from those questions and answers, you can find all of these amazing conversations and, and kind of facts that are there. But you'll also notice above. As I'm kind of circling it with my little thing right here and flashing it, there is a Sanctified Art Facebook group. So as you're preaching and teaching and working through this bundle, you can also reach out to colleagues and say, what's working for you? How is this going? What are these different aspects that are working for you? All of that is available again as part of that bundle at sanctifiedart.org. Now, all you have to do is go to this sanctifiedart.org slash blog slash Advent webinar until the dawn, or simply friends. Just go. Go to their website, sanctifiedart.org. And then you can go from there and click on their blog and you're going to find this webinar. So if you're on the fence, you're not sure, check out the webinar. See if this is a good fit for you and your congregation. If you've already bought the bundle, friends, go check out this webinar because it talks so much more and gives a lot greater depth. But either way, before you do anything else, head on over to sanctifiedart.org. And whether you get this bundle or any other, don't forget to use Pulpit Fiction at checkout. That's Pulpit Fiction at checkout. And that's going to save you 15% off of that order.
Speaker 2Previously on the Bible.
Speaker 1I smell Heaven's Bakery cooking up something good for you, sister.
Speaker 2All right. Well, Heaven's Bakery is cooking up 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 verses 1 through 11. We don't need to write to you about the timing. It dates, brothers and sisters. You know very well that the day of the Lord is going to come like a thief in the night. When they are saying there is peace and security at that time, sudden destruction will attack them like labor pains start with a pregnant woman and they definitely won't escape. But you aren't in darkness, brothers and sisters. So the day won't catch you by surprise like a thief. All of you are children of the light and children of the day. We don't belong to night or darkness. So then let's not sleep like the others. But let's stay awake and stay sober. People who sleep, sleep at night. And people who get drunk, get drunk at night. Since we belong to the day, let's stay sober. Wearing faithfulness and love as a piece of armor that protects our body and the hope of salvation as a helmet. God didn't intend for us to suffer his wrath, but rather to possess salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with him. So continue encouraging each other and building each other up just like you are doing already.
Speaker 1Okay. So here we are. First Thessalonians five. Rob, are we on the eve of Advent? Good Lord. This is, this is very Advent-y, right? In that we have this kind of this looking ahead and we always get this every year we get, you know, if it's year B, we're going to have a little apocalypse. You know, we're going to get this kind of leaning into Advent and we're already getting in there, right? This idea. This idea of what's going to happen, but it also, I think goes really well. This pairing between the first Thessalonians passage and what we were just talking about, which is this idea, you know, we're talking about how do we invest ourselves, our lives into building the kingdom of God. And it's also, you know, whether we talk about what the, what Paul is talking about, the first Thessalonians are doing, encouraging one another, building one another up, doing these aspects of serving the community. That is that, that investment of their time, their energy, their lives, putting themselves at risk for the sake. At the gospel, all of those things are there and we keep doing them. We don't wait until, Oh, wait, Rob, let you know, we're good. Let's just wait until Jesus comes back and do it. And I, and there's two sides of this. We also don't do it in order to go to heaven. We don't do it in order to be saved. We do these good things and we follow it in order. Like we had the parable of talents in order to serve the kingdom. We don't, we do this because it is intrinsically. What God created us to do. And it's how we respond to God's gift of love and grace by continuing those out. And I see that here in this passage, you won't know when this is going to happen. So just keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2And that, that is such the message of first Thessalonians over and over again. I mean, the first half is, you know, you're doing great. I heard you're doing great. Timothy saw you, things are going well. Um, remember when I was there and we had some problems. But, you know, we're proud of you. I'm thankful for you. And then the middle is, you know, Timothy wants to come and I want to come, but it kind of sinks that we can't get to each other, but we will eventually. And then there's this. And so then, and, um, and the, so that is basically keep doing what you're doing. Like, you know, we're just, I was just in a Bible study with, uh, chapter four on this, um, because we're, we're doing first Thessalonians in my church, but we, we divided it up a little bit different. I think I talked about that. I don't like how the lectionary divides first Thessalonians. It skips so much. Um, but the, the overall gist of this letter and this part of the letter is you're doing well. So keep going and maybe do a little more, keep building it, keep building one another up, keep, um, supporting one another, keep doing good. Um, and, and this is the preparation, you know, it's like be prepared, um, because it might not, you know, I can't help but wonder. Or if Paul knew like, okay, things are going well, but it's going to get rough. Like he, you know, the writing is on the wall, so to speak, like living in this kind of community that is counter-cultural, that is not, you know, bowing down to emperor that is, that has lost their, their deep connection to the synagogue. Right. And that's a contextual part of this. That's important. You're starting a new community. It's not easy in this very, um, cosmopolitan port city. On the trade route and all of this stuff that's going on, there's going to be riches. There's going to, you know, there's, there's economic, um, advantages to, to walking away from Christ. There's cultural reasons. There's social ones. Um, not even, you know, Paul knows what it is to be harassed and jailed and, and all of this kind of stuff. So, you know, you, things are going pretty well, but it could turn dark real quick. Right. I mean, and this is the, you know, it's. Yes, he's talking about the Lord's coming, but he's, I think he's also just talking about life in general. Right. Like sometimes when we think, you know, all, all is quiet and calm, that's when, you know, we, we're saying there's peace and security, but that's when bad things often happen. Right. Um, and so just be ready. Yeah. It's, it's, it should be, you should expect it. Don't get complacent. Um. I think that false seduction.
Speaker 1It's a question of, of peace and security is it's a question of peace and security for whom, right. Uh, we think of in peace. and security is a loaded term at the time that this is being written, right? When we hear about the Pax Romana, the Peace of Rome, that was in full force at this time, right? That had been established with Augustus Caesar coming to power and conquering and kind of ending the civil wars that were there and establishing through brutal militarism, the Pax Romana, right? This was not established by transformative peace, but rather militaristic peace. And it was a peace as long as you marched in lockstep with whatever Rome required of you. But we've seen that also in current things. You know, we talk in the show notes about, you know, Nixon used the words law and order that were coded, you know, against civil rights. But we also know that that same kind of idea of law and order was used in 1992 with the election, you know, and Clinton used that to kind of ride those coattails too. And there have been so many others that have used this concept of peace. You know, I think, for example, of the Oslo Peace Accords, right? That created this wonderful time in the 90s when everybody thought everything was at peace. Well, it definitely wasn't at peace. Not only did we have genocide in the Balkans, but also, you know, the Oslo Peace Accords just led to the deepening division and oppression and dismantling and marginalization of the Palestinian people. And it didn't actually create a lasting peace to those who were necessarily being oppressed. And then that lack of peace, that lack of justice then led not only to the Second Intifada, but to the Second Intifada. And so, you know, we've seen that second Intifada, but also for a lack of peace for Israelis and the rise of suicide bombings, right? So we have this cyclical violence in this that came out of the aggravation and frustration of this false peace. So I think this idea of what is, you know, it's the same piece when people say, Rob, you know, make America great again. When was it great again? You know, the idea that you're looking for, that kind of post-World War II nostalgia of prosperity, you know, that kind of post-World War II nostalgia of prosperity, you know, that kind of post-World War II nostalgia of prosperity. And it was also a time when here in the United States, we had rampant Jim Crow lynchings. And it was horrific for a lot of people, as well as deeply racist immigration policies. So, you know, I think that warning of peace, as well as, Rob, is, you know, this idea of peace is, I wonder how many of the Thessalonians are receiving the same message that many of our churches are, which is, just don't rock the boat, Rob. Right? I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't rock the boat. Don't worry about invite, don't invite slaves. Don't invite other people. Don't, don't talk about how maybe that there are dangerous things that are happening, you know, with the worship of Dionysus in Thessalonica, which is what was happening in the, the frantic drunken orgies that were occurring at that time, according to Amy Peeler from Working Preacher. Don't rock the boat. Don't speak out against those sorts of things. Just, you know, I am okay, you're okay. Let everything be fine so that we all feel better. And I think that this is a warning against that. And I think that this is a warning against that as well.
Speaker 2There's an interesting piece here too, at the end where, you know, God didn't intend for us to suffer his wrath, right? Like, and Jesus, and then he goes on and Jesus died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with him. Right? So there's an element of like, this, this feels a little bit universal list, right? I mean, the intention is not to, to suffer or to suffer God's wrath or to, to, to miss, you know, even if you do sleep, eventually we will live together with him. Right there. I mean, there's an element here of, yes, be prepared. But it's, it's also not necessarily up to you either. Right? I mean, I don't know. I mean, we're, we're, this is part of this, this, their salvation here is in community, right? Encourage each other, build each other up. And if, because if one person falls asleep, then maybe somebody else can cover for you to a certain extent. I feel like there's a, I don't know. I just, I, those last couple of verses just kind of caught me off guard a little bit. I wasn't expecting to hear that sort of, you know, you know, he's saying, stay awake, stay awake, you know, be, be prepared. And yet at the end, there's an element of, well, we're going to be okay regardless.
Speaker 1Well, I think it's, I think it's twofold. I read the sleep piece. So as a continuation from last week. So, right. Because last week, remember people were upset because they, they were concerned. What if people died before Jesus came back? Right. And Paul often when he refers to sleep, he's referring to it. But, and so I think when, when, when he says that it's this idea of awake or sleep is actually whether you're alive or whether you're dead, you know, we'll, we'll be back together. I think he's calling back to that, but I, but it comes the piece that you said, Rob, which is, which is it's community. This is not none of, not a single piece of this Rob is about individual salvation. It is about community. And I do think that there's real value in exactly not only that piece that you mentioned, but also the fact of like, as it is community, it does mean that there are going to be moments when we are afraid and frightened and we pull in and that scarcity idea makes us want. to just acquiesce and doesn't want us to, to remain faithful. We just want to give into the culture and it does take other people to help, um, keep us alert. Right. And keep us on the right track and encourage us in that. And this idea of what do we do? Because what comes right after that, Rob? So what do we do? We encourage each other and we build each other up. Yeah. Right. So, so in that, it's exactly what you're talking about, which is this idea of what, what don't we do? We don't just bully each other or shame each other. Into doing this. We build each other up. We help one another out. And that goes back to something that you were saying, uh, in our previous conversation about, you know, working with other churches and working with other, other community members and doing this kind of broader community work. We do this because we're called to build each other up, not tear each other down.
Speaker 2Yeah. Well, and you know, keep reading, right? I mean, maybe not on Sunday because, uh, you know, you've got time constraints and we will be coming back. To first Thessalonians five in just a few weeks, the third Sunday of Advent, um, first Thessalonians five, 16 to 24 is the reading. But if you look at it, where'd it go? Uh, comfort the discouraged, help the weak, be patient with everyone, make sure no one repays a wrong with the wrong, pursue the good for each other, rejoice, always pray continually. I mean, it's, it's Gaudete Sunday. So there it is. Rejoice always. He doesn't say, again, I say rejoice, but he says it just once. That's later in older letters. He's like, I got to say it again. No, rejoice, always pray continually, give thanks in every situation because this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Don't suppress the spirit. Don't brush off spirit inspired messages, examine everything carefully and hang on to what is good, right? This is the beauty of what we're leading to. And again, the, there is, I, the more I read, especially, you know, authentic Paul, um, there is no salvation outside of communal salvation for Paul. It's all about community. Every single one of his letters, even if it's talking about individual, you know, issues here and there, all of them end with these kinds of instructions to love one another, to care for one another, the rubber hits the road with how we treat one another in community. And, and we're getting there with this passage. Um, and, and, and, and this is, um, you know, you know, read all of chapter five to be able to understand this portion of it for sure. Absolutely. So much, a lot
Speaker 1of good stuff there. Uh, and again, just a spoiler. If you're sticking with is just to reiterate, if you're sticking with our CL through Advent, you were going to hit that again on Gaudete Sunday. That's third Sunday of Advent friends. So much more in the show notes. You can find all of that over at pulpitfiction.com. Right now, we want to thank all of you so much for joining us for this episode of the Pulpit Fiction Podcast. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome to the Pulpit Fiction community. It's great to have you here. We'd love to hear your thoughts. There's a bunch of different ways that you can do that. You can head on over to pulpitfiction.com and where you can find all of our past shows and you can find all of our exegetical notes and links to the resources, all that good stuff at pulpitfiction.com. But also you can leave your comments, add your thoughts. What did we get wrong? What corrections do you have? What things did you miss? What things did you like? All that can be, you can comment right there. You can also sign up for our weekly newsletter there in which we will deliver to your inbox links to the show and the exegetical notes. Now you can also reach us on Instagram and Facebook at Pulpit Fiction. Find us on X at pulpitfpodcast. You can always email the show, show at pulpitfiction.us and you can support the show in a variety of ways. You can go and support our amazing sponsors, sanctifiedart.org. But also you can go to pulpitfiction.com slash support. And not only are you supporting keeping the show going, but you're supporting all of the literally thousands of pastors, seminarians, preachers, seekers, and Bible geeks, all of whom rely on the show each and every week. So you can do that by going over to pulpitfiction.com slash support. For all of you who have already given to the show, thank you so much.
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