Building the "Lovable of Marketing" with Patrick Haede, Co-Founder & CEO @ Superscale AI

Hello and welcome to another episode of RIDER UNICORN. Today's guest is Patrick Hady, co-founder and CEO of SuperSkale AI. Patrick, it's great to have you on. I'm really excited about this one because I've worked in venture for a few years and we've obviously seen the rise of lovable kind of changing how people build products and you're now tackling how people distribute their products. So it's super exciting because I've played around with the product and it's amazing. So maybe you could, in your own words, introduce the company as a starting point. Yeah, perfect. Thank you very much for having me on and I'm super excited to chat with you about that. You already mentioned lovable and it's quite interesting. I used to have a product and tech studio called Sonic before we started SuperSkale. That was at the end of last year, so at the end of 2024. We were actually building, you know, with our, actually with the team that no also works in SuperSkale, we were building products for startups, right? So mobile apps, web apps, just technology products as a studio. And we realized, I think it was in November last year that I saw lovable for the first time and I realized, look, I mean, the reality is that kind of agency service business that we had was going to get disrupted big time, right? Because I mean, I quickly realized, okay, that world in which you go to someone and you sell them a web app for, you know, a couple, a couple hundred thousand euros. That's not going to happen anymore. And so I started kind of thinking about how the world would look with a friend of mine who is an investor, Christian from Interface Capital. I remember we were, you know, he lives in Morocco, so we were sitting there, you know, I was doing a short vacation and we were chatting about kind of the future of the internet really quite broadly. And what came, what came up was the realization that, you know, in a world where everyone can become a builder of software in just a radically easy way. You obviously have so many more software products, right? And then what happens is that someone that hasn't been an engineer before, suddenly is no engineer, but they also very often were not a market here before. And now they have an app that they built and they put their heart and soul into it. And now they they need users and customers. And so, you know, that kind of area of go-to-market, if we just think about marketing on, you know, the channels that we now focus on with SuperSkyl, which is Facebook and Cererm and TikTok, to start, that marketing has already been competitive in the past, but it's now basically becoming ultra, you know, mega competitive. And so you need that kind of agent, you know, you need a similar enabler that turns you into a market here, even if you don't have that prior experience and knowledge. And so then we started this project, which was initially called, you know, GTMAI, just go to market AI and thought about what would that path, you know, that kind of next product in that world look like where you just paste in your product URL and you launch your marketing. And that's what we're building today. So that's that's how it happened. It was really me realizing like, you know, the existing business that we had is going to be disrupted. So we have to how do we become part of the new world? And Patrick, I think the, what you're saying means that you probably would have come to this product, even without loveable, but I think it's it's always interesting when there's such a high profile company, a rocket ship like Lovable that sort of helps open people's minds to almost a new product space, you know, these prompt based interfaces. Do you think Lovable has helped your cause? And have you taken much? Well, so have you taken much inspiration from Lovable and has it sort of helped your cause? Do you think? I think there is a there is a higher level realization that I've that I've had now that we've been building super scale, which is that companies like Lovable, but it starts, I think in my point of view, much earlier with actually, I think it starts with chat GBT entering the market, where something very interesting happened from my perspective as someone who has building, who has basically been building products for the last 10 years, even more than that in digital products for the internet, which is that the default usage pattern of the internet is fundamentally changing, right? Whereas, you know, a couple of years back, you would be thinking about building a product and you would be thinking about the UI that the product needs to have and how that UI is going to be controlled by someone clicking the mouse and typing the keyboard on the computer and that was the default computer human interface, basically interaction. Now, what happened was that now it changed to the computer is now suddenly understanding natural language in a way that it has never done, never been able to before and so the interface changes and so when the interface changes, then the way that people expect to interact with software, changes fundamentally and now you need to build new software and so they realized that I think it was something that kind of came more came to my mind at the beginning of this year is that when you think about even companies like Stripe that are incredibly big today, if you think about their interface, I don't think it will look like that in two years because what will happen is that people will get so lazy in that sense, they don't want to they don't want to click buttons anymore, they are going to get used to literally speaking to software and software doing whatever they want and so that's when it kind of started thinking about the UI. Now, it is quite interesting when you look at super scales product today, there is a couple of areas in which we still build UI and then there is a big part which is in our case an ad studio combined with a chat experience and you can just start chatting with your content and you know, it's rated and variated and scale it and that means that we also haven't figured out kind of the chat experience for every single bit of the UI which I think will come because then it's kind of relaying, you know, it's kind of based on how the how good the model is and how it understands what you want but in that regard it has driven, you know, inspiration for me in terms of thinking about what do people want to use today, how does a product have to look for them to be willing to use it and it's quite interesting when we launched super scale which is only a couple of weeks back, we had a prompt box on the website and super scale had a couple of features that you were able to use where it's I mean, we are still early but, you know, a lot of people came to the website and they started using the product and they put in prompts that were much more complex than we thought than we had expected because it's already this far that people basically now have the expectation you go to a website, the website offers you something and you treat it like a service provider, you just tell it what you want to have and people literally they came to us and said, you know, they kind of treat our product like it's a marketing agency, you know, just give me everything, you know, look at my product and analyze it and then think about the ads and put together the ads and select the whole job. Now, obviously you need to then develop an agent that is able to do that and that's that's our challenge that we have but it's so interesting to see these new usage patterns and I think that's a big that's a big part of of of kind of the chativity, loveable, agentic revolution that's coming up. So, so Patrick that's fascinating that journey and you've touched on how people are interacting with the product when they hit the landing page but tell us a bit more about what you actually do, what's the end-to-end workflow, what's the output that you can produce for your customers today? Yeah, so what the product does today is it specializes in in content, organic or paid content for Facebook, TikTok and Instagram. These three platforms, why? Because you need incredible amount of content volume to be to be successful both in organic marketing and paid ads. I think the most the two most popular formats, interestingly, Lee and I have this AI UGC content, so it's AI-generated people that speak about your product or that shows some kind of emotion and then you see a demo video of your product. It's sometimes it's short content pieces like 10 seconds, sometimes it could be up to a minute. And the interesting part is, I mean, you can try it, you can all try it out for yourself, it's free to test, you know, just go to SuperSkyl and you will just type in, you know, whatever you want the character to say and you will get a video and it's mind blowing, you know, I mean, I know the versions of six, eight weeks ago where it is today, it's nearly indistinguishable from reality at this point, right? And so what it enables people to do is that like, you know, before and app like this, you would have to hire an influencer or marketing agency and you would have to pay someone a real human, like a thousand bucks to produce a video about your product. Now, if you want to be successful in Facebook marketing, you know, one video is not enough because you might not even know what kind of person your audience resonates with. So ideally, you want to have 20 videos of 20 different people talking about your product. And this is now something that we are making possible, right? You can generate one video and then actually that kind of a genetic interface comes into play where you have a chat and you see the ad on the right side and you can just tell the chat, you know, I want this ad with 20 different people and it generates that for you, which is kind of this factor of you get to the first ad that you would like to run and then you scale it up to many different versions. And that's something that that many people need. And it's kind of like, you know, we share this vision of we want to give someone the power to do something that they don't have today and that would cost them an incredible amount of money. But now with AI, they can actually get that job done much more quickly. And it's just fascinating to see, you know, people are producing these ads. And I get this question now, like on a daily basis, you know, is this even AI? Like I just had a call with someone actually in the foundational AI model space and angel investor in the company. And he was going to super scale into our kind of character library. And he was literally asking me like, "Are these three people or not?" And they are like, obviously all AI generated. So it's a pretty interesting space that in which we are now playing. But that's what the product is. - Yeah, and you're, I mean, the really exciting thing about building in a space like this is how you will piggyback on foundation-led developments. - 100% improvement. - 100% improvement. - What you see today is only going to improve hugely. And by the way, I went on and had a play around and it is an extraordinary product. You can have a play around super quickly. And any of our listeners should do that. They should go and have a play around on the platform. One thing that I wanted to ask you was, how far you can go with your automation? 'Cause I found myself, I was actually doing it for a friend's business. I was sort of using his product as a test product. And I thought you could have actually gone one step further rather than having to type out the script at the person reads. You could generate the script yourselves, you know, according to best practice around UGC and with your knowledge of the product and the business and the customer base to go that one step further. Is that on your roadmap? - It's actually, I don't know when you specifically tried, but I mean, depending on when this recording goes live, like actually today, yesterday, we launched an update that does exactly that. So there we go. - So I mean, the interesting thing here is that we see ourselves as a company that builds the best possible workflows to create highly engaging marketing content. We have actually a lot of the foundation model providers are also like people from those companies are also engineering investors in the company. So obviously it helps us to kind of move forward and think about what will the foundational models be able to do in a couple of months that we can now build the right workflows for. But the way that you can imagine this is that when you think about the job of a person in performance marketing today, it can be incredibly enhanced with the support of AI in every area, right? You can look at the Facebook Manager account performance, just look at the numbers, take the ad that's performing best, pull that into the extract the script, get the script and replicate the ad, launch new ads, it's gonna be a fully automated process and we are building kind of the foundational layer for that. Now the interesting part is that when you think about the foundational models, they serve kind of like tools, right? They are able to generate one part of your ad. And we invest an incredible amount of research in what is the best workflow and interface for you to put these highly complex creatives together and then edit them and scale them up. And actually partner with a lot of performance marketing specialists to embed that knowledge into the product. But yeah, I was actually today, I was having a chat with the customer of ours and the super scale generated creative, which is still, I mean, it's still mind-blowing to me that it's a fully AI generated human talking about their product is now the best performing meta ads creative they have. Which is just mind-blowing, right? And it's been six weeks that we've been live and there's obviously a lot of progress that we are planning but the interesting thing is that I think most people on earth today don't realize yet that at the end of this year, I think every company that's modern will employ like two or three AI generated humans basically as the spokesperson for their brand. You will look at an org chart and there's gonna be, you know, two more people custom created for this brand that are gonna be the face of the company because it's so much more flexible, right? You can just put this person wherever you want, you can dress them in whatever they should wear, you can make them say scripts and then vary the scripts and just it's just so much faster. So it's just really interesting to see for us that kind of development. - Yeah, and I really wanted to ask you about something you touched on just there which is the performance of the ads produced by SuperScale and how you build that performance into your own sort of product development and integrate it perhaps, you know, as a North Star metric, you could have some way to focus your product team's minds on building the right thing. Like, because you could take different approaches, right? You could internally consider your success to be, you know, looking at the usage of your clients, are they using the product lots? Are they pushing out lots of ads? But you could end up with a misguided company where actually people aren't getting the results they need. So you could also, if you're plugged in with all the ads platforms, be looking at the ultimate performance, the uptake of ROAS and all of these things are required for the development ground that. - Which I think we should. I mean, honestly, you know, when you think about it, a lot of platforms that are an AI agent for something, what they ultimately do, even if it sounds boring, is they replace a service provider. That's ultimately what they do. Now, if SuperScale was a marketing agency and we wouldn't perform, we wouldn't deliver performance on the ads, companies would fire us, you know? This is the same thing that will happen with our product. If it doesn't deliver performing ad creatives. So ultimately, you know, the success of our customers is that people buy their products with the ads that they get from us. Now, the interesting part is that if you have the right tools and you have the right workflow, with the tool like SuperScale, you can create so much more content, so much more quickly, and you know, even the highest plan we have, which is currently $400, is literally less than one ad would cost in real life. Which means that you're gonna be more successful with that path, purely from the fact that you can test more. It's very hard to predict which creative is gonna be the winner in a certain space, right? Because it depends on the platform, it depends on kind of like the momentum of the audience at a certain moment, it's like very depending, right? Some form it's trend in a given week and then stop trending the week after. So you want to be testing as much content as possible. And the more you test, the more quickly you will find your winner. And so that's ultimately what we enable, right? I don't think that we will quickly be able to say like, okay, just run this one ad and it's gonna perform. That's gonna be a very, very difficult thing to do. Maybe lay that down the line. But if we can give you 100 ads, more quickly than anything else, the chance that one of them is gonna be winner is gonna be incredibly high. And obviously, from the data that we are already collecting, right, I mean, there's so many ads being generated every day. From that data, we can already start kind of deriving some initial learnings and it will make the ads even better over time, right? So that's how you ultimately can think about it. - Yeah, it's really interesting. And I'm gonna put my VC hat on here and just ask a question about, I think one of Lovable's success, the reason it's grown so quickly is because everyone sort of has a product idea in their head somewhere. And so for those that couldn't code previously, you can now go and you can get your while moment very quickly, the counter to that though is that a lot of people don't complete their product. I think there was some start that 80% of vibe coding products are never completed. Whereas almost is the opposite with super scale where you probably don't get the hobbyists as much. There's not as many people out there going, do you know what, I really got this idea for this advert that I wanna create? And so my question is really around market size and longevity is, how do you answer that question to investors around who is the target customer and what, you know, you can jump on and get a while moment. But that's because we're interested. How do you get that sort of main market, mass market appeal where everyone becomes a mock tear overnight? - Yeah, I mean, so I think we have to differentiate here between the advertising market, which is basically people that are already running ads today. And that market is obviously larger than I can define even in just one single format segment. And then you have the new category of builders that are having a software product and now they wanna start advertising for it. The way that we think about this is more from a perspective of the content format. Like if you would think about the advertising creative markets, it's so incredibly huge. I mean, you know, it's definitely big enough to build a building about our business. So you wanna think about what type of content can be produced so well with AI today that it's gonna work as an ad. That's the question for me, which means that if I look at one of the ads that customers of the customer that I just mentioned or is running, it's a speaking character ad. And if I see that ad is performing, then we know that that's a category in which we can produce performing ads faster than anything that's there in the market. Now, when you have that kind of insight, then you can basically address everyone that wants to create that ad format. And that's where it gets really interesting because we have customers know from all different segments. It's huge companies, it's small freelancers, it's builders, it's loveable apps because they see an ad, which is for example, someone talking about a product and they realize, hey, I want to have an ad like this, but it's like crazy hard to produce. So I'm gonna use SuperScal and just gonna type in the script get a person talking about my product. I get captions out of the box. I can just add two shots about my product and now I have this ad. And we're gonna, like the next couple of weeks are gonna be crazy because we're gonna launch a couple of updates which basically gradually make it possible to create more complex ads. And there's going to be a moment where you generate an ad and you're going to be like, okay, holy shit, it's like I literally got an entire creative that is like, I wouldn't even have known how to edit it even if I had the material, right? Because you need someone to film it, you need someone to edit, you need someone to add captions, and it's going to come all right off the box. So I think you basically lead with the format and you say look, if you want this kind of ad, come to us and you will get it. If this ad starts performing, great, you just take that ad, open it in the chat, tell the chat, I need 10 variations of this boom, you grab coffee, come back, you have 10 more ads, you get you get to 100 ads, you get to 200 ads. So then we address all of them. And then from there, there's more capabilities, you know, being added in the product and more formats. And then people come and buy different formats. So I think that's basically my perspective. Now, is the market large enough? I mean, how many, I mean, I usually don't even wonder, you know, how many ads are being launched on Facebook every day, right? I mean, we have customers that have 100 active ads running any moment, just one company, you know, it's so, so we think about it very much from a content perspective. But obviously, if we are able to produce the best content for you most quickly, now you're with our product, we can start building out the journey for you. And that means analytics, that means shipping, you know, from super scale directly into the ad manager, we launched recently that you can launch content directly on TikTok from outside of from inside a super scale. And the last step that I think will be very interesting is fully automation. So imagine a world where you literally just open your laptop in the morning and you get a message on Slack from super scale, saying, look, we looked at all your ads. These two work performing, we created 10 variations based on how we think the ad could perform even better. These variations are no launched and we can talk about it again tomorrow, right? And you literally have an entire marketing agency, performance marketing agency in your pocket, you know, creating content for you. And maybe one more example, there's incredibly interesting TikTok accounts, organic content, right? So people creating like there's companies that run seven, eight, 10 TikTok accounts with organic content to get customers visitors to their product. Now you get to a point where you find like one format that's really interesting for your product. So it might be like a person saying, oh my god, I found this app. And then it's like the first three seconds. And then afterwards it's kind of like a short demo video of the ad. It's like a seven second creative. Now there are some companies in the market, like more indie hacker style tools that enable you to create one of these creatives at a time. What we've now figured out with the agent is that you can you can generate one of this creative with super scale, but you can then literally tell the agent create an entire account of this, like literally create 50. Think about how you would do it and you make small variations and you're just going to print the end literally this morning I ran a test and I saw an entire TikTok account be printed out in front of my eyes, right? The entire like every like 50 videos, which would have taken a human editor like two days to produce, right? And so that's really where I think it's going to get like like an exponential effect in how much value it has for people. I have to say that getting this agent right is one of the hardest things we are working on right now. We have like four people just focusing on it and we like twice a week we lose our minds over how complex it is. But I think we get to that point like when it starts working it's going to be really really powerful for people. I mean people are going to be like okay this is absolutely crazy. I just basically prompted a full active account that I could launch on any platform with content with two or three messages, right? Which is just an interesting crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy. What have you seen any really surprising ads? Like I'm just sort of playing how playing out how this could go and you now have unlimited ability to experiment with ads both copy and content which would allow you theoretically if you're a risk taking entrepreneur to take some wild bets and you know you could go on to super scale and select your risk tolerance and you guys can come up with some outlandish ideas that may end up performing really well. Have you seen any of that happening? Every day. Every day. Like once a day I see an ad creative. I mean you need to kind of differentiate organic creatives. They tend to be a bit more on the crazy side and then some of them just don't work at all and some completely you know go to the moon and then you have meta ads or Facebook ads creatives in my world right now which is kind of like more tested and proven I would say from a format's perspective. But still you see ads like content that works as an ad every day where you think that's just an amazing idea. Now I'll give you one example. We found a format yesterday where an app for students was supposed to be advertised for and what they did is they basically with real humans they set up a setting where the professor in front of the class was talking about the app as like hey I want to just call this out to everyone like this app is forbidden you know like that's the creative and obviously you kind of everyone wants to know what ad app that is right now the cool thing is that the more of these credits I see the more I realize it would have been impossible for people to produce this with all the tools because like I was talking to to performance marketing specialist and she was like I want to create advertising creatives for a play app for kids on airplanes. Now how would you even film that content right you would have to go with the kid to the airport film you know them running around being like super busy like she was just prompting and super scared like videos right like hey the small toddler with their suitcase running around to and then it's credits this five second video and you overlay some text and now you have like how do you keep your toddler busy on an airplane and so you get to that point where it's just kind of like the creativity in your head doesn't have limits anymore which obviously is with all Gen AI but for that specific niche you you need to have the right workflow right because then you need that ad creative in different formats and you need to have variations from it and so that's where we're specializing like we're not just generating the picture but really the the ad creative which is some different something different but it's just interesting to see right it's like you you give like people can now replicate this these formats we are also going to work on the specifically the replication flow because that's something very interesting to people it's it's even more difficult to do because you first need to kind of read and add with AI and understand what it what it does really from a psychological standpoint that's something that we are probably going to work on next month how does this all play out do you think when people will you know ads are going to proliferate it's going to be more ads produced and and people are going to become desensitized to maybe talking heads ads they're going to start to recognize AI ads maybe even regulation comes in you know possibly how does this play forwards in your mind in regards to how you keep things creative and interesting in face of desensitization and navigating through ethical concerns yeah yeah so I mean maybe to start with kind of the you know limiting limiting what can be created thankfully the foundational models already do quite a good job at that right so if someone wanted to create an ad that we don't want them to create from a content perspective that would already be like in majority of cases be limited by the foundational models themselves right they do that then they would not allow the content creation and we don't even have to you know put an additional barrier in I think in terms of the the amount of content the interesting thing is I got this question when we were doing fundraising quite a lot you know like okay imagine the world everyone you lose super scale right now it's already like okay let's stop right there that's already a pretty good world right to start with like I mean if that's a problem we can think about that at that point but the interesting thing is what will happen is that obviously people are going to create more content they are gonna launch this content and iterate it much faster than before and content will will start to fade out more quickly right because some formats won't work anymore and something is trending just a short amount of time and interestingly enough it's gonna make these kind of tools like the one we're building even more relevant because now you need to come up with new creative ideas and you need to do that more quickly now I think what's what's interesting and this is something that drives me personally a lot is when we started working on super scale which is only the beginning of this year I was just spending a lot of time looking over the shoulders of people doing performance marketing and what I realized is that most of them didn't even have the time to do the job that they actually loved that what they actually would like to do is they would like to think about creative ideas of how to advertise the product what they had to do is spend time in CapCut and all these manual tools to put together 30 ad variations of something and then upload them in the Facebook ad manager which takes three hours and so I think we are entering a world where ideally with these kind of tools you have time to actually be a creative market here and we will see even better ads like more creative ads more ads that are not an ad but actually entertaining because someone now has to time to think about that idea and then just put that idea into super scum say okay now make me ten ads from this idea and I'm just going to try out tomorrow. So that's what I would hope for kind of it does in the enablement of people that are working in this in this world today. It's almost like massively accelerating idea to execution if you consider execution to be done fully by the AI rather than having to pull together a film crew find the location you know all these things so it's a real hotbed of creativity potentially the building. Exactly and it might be I mean what I see which I find quite interesting you know I mean people ask me like are we building this company to make you know influencers you know go out of the job or whatever like I think. Ultimately this is one more tool ideally a very powerful one that you can use for creating content and running ads but it might be that you generate hundreds speaking characters with super scale you use them for your product you find the one that's performing best and you create ten variations with super scale you can you and then you use same blueprint and you create ten variations with the human but only then you know that it's actually going to perform right you might still have human actors. You know be part of your kind of add this also know people thought like a couple weeks back that this would have to be the case if you go to the super scale today and you look at the actors and we are not that we have used to have other actors also I generated like four six weeks ago you would think like okay still looks a bit too polished you know not natural enough. People wouldn't believe me that I was saying like look you know there's people that are going to have you know Lara and Lara is going to work at this company and she doesn't exist but she's all over Facebook advertising for this product people wouldn't believe me they're saying like okay it all looks AI looks polished the thing is. What I've learned over the last half a year said every estimation that I had over the pro about the progress of foundation models. Was wrong by and sometimes in order of magnitude in terms of how quickly that would get better right so you you like everything that I ever thought would take a long time to get better and to get like to level where. You wouldn't see the difference anymore real and real world and AI has come you know just so fast so it's like today I know that even the things that we are working on internally right now if they look a bit AI like a bit polished I know that in four weeks they're going to be like. You know at a point where it's in the English book so it's like. Kind of all road map is planning for that future already right and I think starting next week we are going to. You know I share a lot of updates on X or LinkedIn on like our product progress. And I'm going to share like even some credits that we've generated already and it's going to be like it's just absolutely nuts what's possible right and when you think about you know. Like the power that maybe a gym shark or Nike or like the big brands they can produce creatives but you can now just take that creative extract the script you just take that person which is a you know runner and you create like a running shoe ads like Nike like literally the same thing with like click of a button you know and now like if you're small e-commerce brand you bring a new product to the market you have that power you can run 100 ads before only Nike could do it because they had the budget you know now you can also. Which is something that I find really beautiful right like there's a lot of people you know Shopify loveable like the building businesses. We want to give them this app where they're thinking like man I like 100 bucks a month. I now have the marketing agency in my pocket basically and I can be a successful ideally with ads as the big companies which I think would be pretty cool for us to see as kind of like a vision of the company. Yeah super cool and I mean if it goes the way that you know what you could build the loveable six months go versus what you can build with the 2.0 and the agent and everything kind of it's just like it's just like wildly different so so would you go beyond video will you do like news letters and. LinkedIn posts and like will you do plan to go not just expand how you can create video ads but also expand formats and become that full all encompassing marketing product. We have obviously a lot of requests right I mean if I would have to list all of the formats that people want to want to produce it's it's a lot. The way that I think about this is that a lot of the the foundational work for example the agent that we are building which in our cases is I mean it's an end agentic several agents I don't know how that's called the agentic you know infrastructure setup I don't know what the name for that is I don't know if they even is a name at this point so young everything. But that agentic setup that basically understands ads from a mark tears perspective and builds new ads that's the foundation of what we're building now that that foundation will work better every day now and the better works. The more formats you can plug into it and it will be able to replicate these formats and create new formats and ultimately every add is a collection of pixels on a canvas right and that canvas could be 9 to 16 or 16 to 9 or. You know could be landscape could be static for us it's really you know I think we're not just a startup that that that builds a very simple rapper around foundation models we are spending actually I think more time than the than the average start up. Thinking about what is the underlying infrastructure that we have to develop that will then allow for us to just plug in new foundation models and it still works and that's a different kind of set. So I think short term you know if I look at like the next three months is already a long time frame and in our regard it's going to be fully focused on you know tick tock Instagram Facebook like these ad creatives and ad formats. Once we see these formats you know they're really being run at scale then obviously we can look into something like statics which would be kind of adjacent still because there is even statics being run on Facebook but it's it's all around. Our job is to take a URL and to understand your product and your brand and your company so deeply that we can create performing at creative for you as quickly as possible whatever the format is. And then we are able to scale it for you and we are able to replicate it for you and that's our job and so then I think we just choose the next format that's most widely requested and you know people like there's already people. Kind of like an early better where you see like five formats on the homepage right now there's already people that are testing new formats internally work with customers so this is kind of how we go about it. Think about the business model that there are a lot of different options and routes you can take I suppose there's get people to pay sass fee that's seat based as usage based you know paper and kind of thing that you could select them. It just crossed my mind the idea that if you're able to close the loop by being plugged in with performance metrics and even sales data. There could be an interesting route where you say we won't charge you unless we deliver you you know net positive revenue net net revenue and you know you could start to say well we'll just take 10% of whatever sales which generate from you assuming their profitable sales which you theoretically have the ability to determine. So have you thought about any like business model innovation maybe not today but maybe in future. I think in the future it can become very relevant to a business like ours the interesting inside and honestly I've been surprised myself about that is how quickly super scale creatives are amongst the best performing creatives that companies have like honestly I mean we just launched a product publicly to be used by everywhere tried by everyone like maybe six weeks ago. I would have never thought you know like I mean I knew about the power to create things but I wouldn't think like okay someone creates 10 ads and already one of them is their best performing at but when you think about it longer it makes sense because now they had complete creative freedom right they were not limited in anything so they were just thinking about what is the best possible ad that I could imagine for my business and they immediately had it. So because that's the case right now we just have a pricing that we feel like is very very fair which means like whenever you export an ad you have to pay for it which is like okay you want to use this ad creative and we all we can already be quite confident that the ad creatives that we create have good potential for your product then you just you know pay per export which I think is like a very competitive set but overall we think the company like very long term like like okay what's the foundation we're going to do. What's the foundation we're setting today and then where can we go with this I think once we close to loop on like performance data being in the product we can create like incredibly competitive pricing because there is going to be a world where like we might be able to predict even performance of creatives and then obviously it gets really interesting right beginning you can I mean the interesting thing is like even subjectively when I look at when I speak with customers and I look at their account like I can already tell I mean I'm basically spending you know 10 hours a day. You know 10 hours a day seeing ads at this point so it's like I can already tell you know from just seeing couple ads like okay this one is pretty interesting you should run this one we'll see and then sometimes you know I sometimes I'm wrong but it's like that there's a tendency where I can see like okay this works. So this can be done programmatically, right? And you can see like, okay, how this would. So then you could think about, okay, we just run percentage on the ad spend. And then obviously this becomes like a very, very interesting business financially. Now the interesting thing is, from a business perspective, like this can work even with the setup that we have right now, right? I mean, the RRI is so high. Like if you have to compare, basically, am I gonna spend $100 on super scale to generate ads or am I gonna pay an agency a service fee even for them to start creating ads and it's gonna cost me to an $1,000 euro, so more. So that is so clear. So it's like more, we optimize that first path and once we get to a great customer base and like, like, you know, large scale in that regard, then we can really, you know, start innovating on that front and just, you know, integrating more data. But customers are actively asking us about it, you know, like they want, that's the thing I said about like the usage pattern on the internet, right? They're messaging us saying like, hey, can I give you our ads account and can you look at the existing ads and can you do, like, can you just be or everything for us, please, you know? That's kind of like how they want things to work. Because they go to Getsubi.de and just put in everything and they get their work done, you know? Like that's how the word no works. So that's where our product will obviously develop into. - And it's incredible to see that kind of pull from users. And Patrick, I'd love to hear more about traction and where you're at with sort of customer usage, any revenue figures you're able to share until the next six months for you guys. - Yeah, not yet, I would say. We're a bit early and we have to be a bit secretive in some ways. It's important for me, I think the one thing that I want to share is to performance, which is quite interesting, right? That we are seeing these kind of performance levels for the meta ads right now. I think it would be surprising, you know, how many, how many, there's thousands of shed messages being sent on SuperSkyl, right? I mean, the level is much higher than we would think, like, okay, the usage, you know, in terms of, okay, how many people are chatting with this platform, trying to generate ads. Obviously, we are not, we are also in a bit of competitive market, right? And people are looking at the product and we see on a regular basis, some people trying out the product that I know will not, they are not a consumer product. They are actually in a similar space, playing in a similar space as us. And then it comes interestingly to the question of kind of what's the mode, right? How do you build a product in a way like this where everyone has like 10 agents and trying to copy the competitor. And we try to, you know, build a brand and build somewhat of a unique user experience and invest a lot of time in this kind of a genetic level research where it's like, okay, this is what's going to differentiate us, you know, in the long term, like yesterday on X, someone tagged me and said, look, you know, there's some founder, met some crazy claims about their ad generation product. There's also a product in the US. I won't name the name, but they have made a quick name for themselves with some crazy marketing. But ultimately, what happens is people realize quite quickly, like, okay, which product really works and which is more only talking about it. And we have been a bit more on the quiet side so far because we realize quite quickly, it's just not that easy, you know, you can very quickly build an app that you just put in and you plug in chatchivity and it generates you an static ad. And you can say, oh my god, I have the ad maker. It's not working like that, you know, like, when you really want to get to performing creative, you're going to have like a certain grind that you need to go through, like the agentic side, like really making that work is really, really, really hard. So it's more for me, like, every day I generate ads with super scale and I look at, okay, like, where are we? And I speak with our customers and I talk about, you know, is this performing for you? Like, you know, just tell me honestly, the more we see of that, which is already kind of like the strongest signal for me, then we are going to be also a bit louder. Like we, we will also be accompanied that is happy to be sharing, you know, how revenue is growing. But for me, it's more than I now, like, I want to focus on this really has to work. Like, you can easily enter the market and say, like, oh my god, we have to crazy is at, at, at, at, at, at make or ever, you have a hard paywall, make people pay a hundred bucks. Everyone will do it. And your stripe graph is going to go like this. We have seen people in our market to do exactly that. And investors were calling me and saying, like, oh my god, four million AR, yeah, in 80% sure, because the products didn't work. So for me, it's like, we're going to be like a louder company when we actually know that now is the time. And until then, we are happy to be a bit more, you know, secretive and people can figure out themselves what works, what doesn't, so that we have some head start. - Cool, makes sense. And we've had stuff and and Peter from Criendum on the podcast previously and they're good friends of the show and they led your preceded rounds. Five million dollars is that right? And so, so maybe you could tell us how that all came about. And, and how did you select Criendum as well? - Yeah, yeah, it was a crazy, it was a crazy time in the beginning of this year. Our second son was four weeks old. I started to fundraise, I think, on a Tuesday in a week, in one of the weeks. And we closed around on the following Monday. It was absolutely crazy. Ultimately, we decided for Criendum because they have an incredible team. I'm just going to be really honest here. This is, they have an incredible team. When you visit one of the offices, you can feel the culture that they have. And for me, culture, you know, even inside our companies, incredibly important, they have actually built a VC that has a team culture that as a founder, you can feel. Where it's really about like everyone is going to, is full on about how are we going to build a company, like Criendum, our company, that is going to deliver the best results for our founders. Obviously, it was very interesting with them chatting about the product, you know, having been investors in love a bit, like we had some really, really intense conversations also over the course of these days. But it was very quickly like I realized, you know, especially Fred and Philip from the team, like that work very closely with us. They had gone so deep on the product, you know, they could tell me things that, you know, just, I mean, you would really have to be like an user for a couple hours to know these kind of things. And so I realized like, look, you know, in the beginning, if you're in that stage, the only thing that really matters is your product and you go to markets. And basically every week you have a problem in either one of these areas, right? You need either better product, you need better go to market and that it just, you know, every week kind of like iterates. So I was thinking like we need investors that want to understand this product incredibly deeply and want to work with you with us on the product. They also need to understand that figuring out this product will take time. It's not gonna be like we didn't, we very specifically didn't want to be the hype company, like the hype company without the product basically, what I'm saying. So these were the factors that I was considering. And so then we made the decision to partner with them and it's been amazing, you know, I spent time at the office at Stockholm and they obviously have an amazing, you know, network of people that we can talk to and they've been very helpful in us figuring out the product. And maybe one interesting anecdote I wanna share is we had dinner and then Fred from the team. He challenged me on the quality of the ads. He was like, I'm gonna be very honest with you. You know, if you don't like it as a founder, I understand. But I'm not gonna hold back on my feedback of whether I think the quality is good because I think we can win this market. If we have the best ads. And he was literally telling me like back then, you know, a couple of test formats, like that's not good enough yet. And I was like, look, this is what I would need as a founder. You know, I don't want, I want someone that's very honest with me thinking about how this can be successful and this company will only be successful if it delivers great, amazing ads. So you have to be honest about quality, right? And I would wanna be challenged in that way. So that was unique. And so I was thinking, you know, that's a great partner. Obviously Felix, a long time friend of mine, he's been with Krandon for a long time. So you could tell me a lot about a company. But, you know, it's just, it's been great working with him. That's really, that's just summary. - Just as a follow-on to the Krandon thing, I heard, I think it was posted on social media. So this isn't like industry gossip or anything. But did they get Anton from Lovable to chat with you? Was that right? - Yeah, we chatted and there's also some more, some more announcements that we'll share, but not yet. - Okay, cool. I mean, it's very cool that you can take your Lovable link and chuck it into SuperSkyl, isn't it? - It's happening surprisingly often every day, which is really cool to see. I mean, the Lovable team is obviously doing it, basically, a part of rebuilding the internet. Because we see so many Lovable links, you know, signing up for SuperSkyl. Like literally every day, it's just crazy to see, right? It's just like the amount of applications that they're building on a daily basis. It's just absolutely crazy. - Yeah, so. - It's incredible. I'm a user of Lovable and now SuperSkyl, so it's great. I mean, we could go on for hours, Patrick, because we, you know, I think we've shown through our questions that we think your product's really exciting. We can see a part of your vision and I think you've done a great job in kind of explaining how you are thinking very long-term and just really scratching the surface on what this business could be. So it's very, very exciting. And yeah, I'm sure we would have loved to go on, you know, 20 times over on our recording time. But we are coming to the end. So I'm just going to ask our two kind of standard questions, just get to know you a bit better, because obviously we focused a lot on the business. - Yeah. - The first is, I guess, not related to you, but might give us a little insight. into how you think about things and think of the world. It's a future unicorn prediction. So if there's a company out there that you've kind of spotted that's maybe early that you think could be massive, who would that be? - Yeah, so I think, you know, a very interesting company I saw recently is called Pola. They're developing a new payments platform, Pola.sh. What struck me about, it's simply, I just read the website, right? And obviously there is a giant like Stripe, you know, that they're going up again. So at least they're playing in a similar field. But I found like, they had a very unique point of view on how the world inside the internet is evolving. Like what kind of requirements people have on the platform around payments. And I always find it interesting when a company is basically building in a space where everyone would kind of say, like, I mean, that space is kind of taken, right? I mean, there is giant companies playing in that space. But you see like a small company really, you know, having a unique perspective and a great product as well. And I paid a lot of attention to that also with, with, you know, investments that I'm making. So I would name them as an interesting company that I would want to be following. - Yeah, awesome. Am I right in thinking that Irish, is it an Irish company? - I'm not sure actually. I just saw the, I just found the website now for a really, I'm pretty sure we, 'cause, I know it actually, no, oh, it's Stockholm as well. Oh, that's interesting. There was another, there was another payments company, I think that was in Ireland that is not doing the same thing, maybe, but they were trying to build payments for agents. So if an agent needs to pay for something. - Oh, yes. - It's task. - Interesting. - That was really interesting. But I had actually, it was a different company to pull up, but Polar looks really cool as well. So that's a great one. I love that because they have a small team still. So it's early, so it's a proper future unicorn shower, which we love. - And then we can revisit in a couple of years. - We can revisit in a couple of years, exactly. Or six months as the now it is. - It is, it is. - Exactly, exactly. - 100%, 100%. - And then our final question, Patrick, is our dinner party guest game. So if you would have dinner with any three people, who would they be? - That's obviously a very interesting question. I actually don't have, I don't fully remember the name. I think I only remember his first name. I think his first name is Ashok, and he's the head of the Tesla autopilot team, the Tesla FSD team. So I think that would be a very interesting conversational partner for dinner. I think I'd love to just spend one night being able to ask Sam Oldman a couple of questions. It's really as, I mean, that might be a standard answer, but the reality is there is not that many people in the world that now have, you know, that deep of an insight into the future, I think that he has. And I've been very fascinated by Ray Dalio, as I think that would be my third person. Just his predictions about where the world's going in terms of like the world order and economics have been really fascinating to me. So I think that would be my round of people that I would love to ask questions, you know, I think especially when you think about real world AI, and you know, the FSD has a product in Tesla, but also the Optimus robot and how they're really thinking about the timeline internally. It's like I'm always fascinated by technological developments that most people don't see coming at all. Like most people in Europe, especially even in the US, I guess, that you would talk to about like self-driving cars. They would still think that it's kind of, you know, it's just out there, right? It's just like a few years ahead, where it's already happening. And based on the tech stack, that's just really interesting. So it's like, I think I would want to be talking with people that are probably closest to where technology really is today, that know where it already is, even before it kind of enters the world. So that would be my round table that if I could put it together. - Awesome. You can tell you're pretty locked in, founder, based on those answers, because I'm sure you would be really interested in getting their view on your business and just making sure that you're planning for that future. Well, that's awesome. So thank you very much, Patrick. So yeah, thanks again for coming on. It's great to be able to speak to you. We really just think that you're onto something massive and it's super exciting. So it's great to speak to you so early in the journey, really. But clearly, you know, there's a great product there. And as Hector said earlier, anyone listening who's thinking about launching a product or has a product or creates ads at the moment should definitely go and try out SuperScal. But thanks so much for taking us through and telling us more about the business. - Yeah, awesome. Thank you very much for having me on and great to meet you and looking forward to staying in touch. - That's it for this week. Thanks very much for listening. To stay up to date with the latest episodes, please follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We also have a newsletter called Reading Unicorns, which is another great way to get every episode direct to your inbox. 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