Building communities of practice for educational development with Dr Monica Chavez

This is Dr. Monica Chavez from the Center for Innovation in Education at the University of Liverpool and you're listening to the Academy's Developing Practice Podcast. Hello, in this episode myself Alex Owen, Academic Developer and Matt Davis, Organizational Developer. Sat down with Dr. Monica Chavez, Educational Developer for the Center for Innovation in Education at the University of Liverpool. We discussed how Monica created a model for digital communities of practice and then rolled it out using Microsoft Teams. We hope you enjoy. Well Monica, we're really pleased to be speaking to you today. It's been great to get to know you over the last couple of months and hear about some of your work that you've been doing to support colleagues with the move to online working through the use of Teams. But before we hear more about that, could we start by you telling us a little bit about your professional background and the role that you're in today? Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's really exciting to be here. Right? Well, I introduced myself as a retired apply linguist because in my former life, I was an applied linguist. I have a PhD from the School of English from the University of Liverpool. I finished in 2011 and then I had a background in teaching languages for a few years, few years, yes, I would say. So I taught in Mexico and in Hong Kong and fully online for a few years as well. While I was living abroad, so I did teach internationally for a while. Then I came back to the UK in 2016 and I kind of reinvented myself and I had all these skills of teaching and living in other countries and experiencing different not only cultures but academic cultures as well. And I think one of the places that influenced me a lot was Hong Kong. Very digitalistabi, very advanced in terms of higher education and I that really picked my interest in digital education. When I came back to the UK, I kind of shifted my focus from teaching to more towards digital education. So that's a little bit about me. Brilliant. And what were you teaching in Hong Kong? Was it in Gestion Spanish or? I was teaching English in the English language center. It was a fantastic academic culture. It's very competitive Hong Kong. So it was everybody publishes, everybody goes to conferences. So you really had to step up in your own and grow a lot. And I think out there I was pushed. This was 2012 and I was pushed into developing my skills, my digital skills, digital capabilities. That's why I'm a firm believer that anybody can can become great in their teaching practice online and digital tools. So yeah, I really enjoyed that living there for two years and a half. So it was it was the Hong Kong Polytechnic University. Brilliant. And what was it specifically about your experience in Hong Kong that really struck you in terms of innovation to do with technology? Was it their use of their VLE? What were they doing that really stood out? So the VLE was really well used. Everybody was using it and I think it was really good practice of how to use it. It wasn't just a repository. I think most academics and my colleagues within the language center as well, they would be really using the different functionalities in different ways to engage students. They would follow the metrics, the learner analytics. And I'm talking about 2012 before and learner analytics became so trendy, right? Different ways of using it and not only the VLE, but it was really an ecosystem of tools that people were using in their teaching. So that's one thing and also publishing about findings about implementing new things. And that really I was very in awe of all these professionalism and in innovative practices. So Monica, I mean, I first met you in the corridors of 12 six mile pleasant. What seems like a long time ago. It does, yeah. Far away dream. Yeah, I remember wondering, I mean, as I do, I've walked past many people on campus, I wonder, and we know what is their role and what do they get up to. But then I really sort of started to understand that at the beginning of the pandemic when we weren't on campus anymore, because I would see a lot of communications from you that were coming through the Microsoft Teams Champions initiative. And that really did become a community of practice quite quickly. It was it was really pleasing to see actually from a different team in the university to see that growing. So can you tell us why that happened and why you decided to launch that innovation? Sure. Okay, so the Champions Program Roadmap, which is a document, I'm very happy to share with everybody I'm going to add in the resources, documents the process. So every time we think that the success is linear, but it's not. It was very, it was full of failure and full of accidents. And you have a, I had a vision of where I wanted to go. I just didn't know exactly how I was going to get there. So you will see in the link that it was four months of training. At the beginning, this space was just a training space where I selected group of champions, which you know, they're from across faculties. And I used it as a space. We got training from Microsoft, the role of the program manager from Microsoft was key as well. And in this four four months period of training, I used a lot of synchronous asynchronous support. I had webinars for them organized. I think that worked really well. So the space open and my intention was I'm going to grow a community because I want people to become interested in scaling up their digital capabilities. I want them to use these tools because it had such a great potential back then. We all know now because we've been forced thrown into the freezing water. And so I open up the space and every time I had the opportunity to give a training across the university, I would invite colleagues. And the truth is, there was no interest because there was no need. So I think the three elements for a successful community of practice would be something you're interested in, which I had. Something people is interested in, which there wasn't an interest. And the allies. So I had the allies and I had my super passion and interest in this tool. And it's not about the tool, but what you could do with it. And so the space open in January 2020, and I was struggling. And I was successfully failing in achieving what I wanted. And then of course, March came the emergency period. And this is where the critical mass happened. And I had, I had the system implemented. I had the people who had been with me along the journey from the beginning. My allies across faculties. And that's when the space really started to grow. So it wasn't like, okay, I know what I wanted to do, but it didn't work. The main I did try different strategies, but it wasn't until people were conscious. And there was a need. It was an emergency that people really wanted support for this. And it didn't matter how much I tried. It didn't work. Many times it didn't work. It was growing very slowly. And I was very close just to end the whole Champions program after eight months, I would say. But then I guess the COVID emergency was what really pushed it forward. Well, it's, I mean, it was very lucky for us in the university that you would actually put a lot of that work in beforehand. You know, three months of graft and of struggle to get that to a place where actually when the pandemic happened and we all were sent home, we had a space where we could ask lots and lots of questions about how do we use this platform? How do we enable high-preaching? So, you know, it was, it was almost fating a way that you'd been doing all that work and struggling to get to that point. I had a similar experience. In the academy, we were using Slack for a time. And the engagement was really patchy. We were really struggling to embed it throughout practices. And I was really trying to encourage people to stay away from things like sending emails to team members and things like that. And then, yeah, when the pandemic happened and we moved to teams, you had a big resource of things there that we could learn from in jump-on. So, it was, you know, the timing was perfect for us. Yeah, I just put the seed, you know, and nobody predicted what was going to happen. We didn't know 2020 was going to be such a miserable year and we were going to go home. But I had a lot of faith in what I was doing and I had a lot of initiative and interest in really changing the way we deliver our teaching. for our students to me that's the bottom line because you like we have email now at that time this is how our students are going to communicate and it happened the future is now and I kept telling people this is what the students are going to face their face dynamic collaborative environments you can't just rely on a static BLE there is a repository because that's not how people work anymore and look just things accelerated the way we work accelerated with the pandemic absolutely I mean I was just going to reflect on my own personal situation I remember when teams was introduced to us probably by Matt I can't remember and I was like oh my gosh another WhatsApp like it's just gonna bombard me all day long like the WhatsApp's do and then you're right we all move home because of the pandemic and it's been a lifesaver for me in terms of you know just being able to continue to engage with my colleagues as you know I lead the ultra program and we've moved all of the panels asynchronously onto teams channels have been involved in leading conferences that we've we've run through teams and it's just been such a brilliant platform to do that but I have to say your Microsoft Teams Champions has been a massive lifesaver for us because it's been that community of people which is what you're describing where we've been able to go with the silly questions with the little questions with the big questions it's been great to have that resource to draw from so in terms of the impact that your innovation has had have you been able to monitor any of that impact I mean I can tell you personally that it you know it really has saved many of the projects that I've been involved in but have you started to kind of monitor some of the impact that you're having with your innovation yes so I there are two ways formally and informally I every six months or every year I have round tables or community forums in which I collect feedback around how the space needs needs to be managed and how it needs to be developed and one of the I think the impact one of the biggest impact is that the Champions model which is community of practice peer coaching because at the end one of the key factors is the peer coaching and I'll go back to that in a minute and community of practice peer coaching and and champions roles and is that these has been used internationally the center CIE has won a bid to give consultancy to the British Council to support Peruvian universities so the model was was part of the bid and we succeeded when we applied and and part of the model was to give to create a community of practice following that more because we had leaders in this case they weren't called champions they were called leaders and support them train them similarly to what was done in the Champions community and they in turn their job is going to give this knowledge this kind of exclusive training they called about teaching online how to teach online they're going to go back to the universities and create their own community of practice in which they are the leaders and the facilitators and so far I've heard some really good response I think everybody's facing a lot of challenges so internationally three universities have created three different communities of practice following the model to be it's a massive kind of evidence of the impact of this and informally I am observant of the community so I observe the interactions between the members they in and they out so to me is about the value and if I observe that it brings value to the university it means I'm doing a good job the community is doing well and and that's the bottom line for me the value is the main indicator of me of impact there is no point in creating a community just because it sounds great to have a space to have a community it looks good if there it brings no value and there is no interest from people so to me that's that's the way I'm monitor so I haven't yet formally launched a survey because I don't want to bother people that's the truth I'm very conscious everybody so busy I think at some point I might I might do it measure it more more formally this value yeah I like what you're saying about the use of communities of practice and I've used quite a lot of those in my own professional working but I think lots of people interpret that term in lots of different ways so what what are we actually talking about in terms of the development of the communities of practice that you're involved in what would you say they're key attributes are I think in the model I I used the the two other the community of practice is key and I would say the other two elements the peer coaching and champions roles are dependent on how well the community does and to me is about again the value that it brings in the learning because because sometimes people kind of confuse what is between a network and a community and it's not about who knows whom is about the learning and about the the ultimate benefit that brings to an institution that these interactions are effective in whatever goal a learning goal so it's about the learning so I think what was key here is to have champions across the institution and I was just super lucky that people were interested in that I was told many times oh it's not going to work it's not going to work out it's not that kind of place where people want to be called champion and I thought well if why not I'm gonna try it I'm sure I was aware that there was a lot of good practice going on and I know some people don't like the term champion because it puts them off I don't know exactly what I love it but I see all their perspectives as well I think deep down everyone wants to be a champion I said in my six-year-old this is kind of that privacy of the world and in the support and I was also very conscious that I was a newcomer to the university and I was in a professional services job and when you want to influence teaching practice with academics maybe sometimes you need the peer the peer to peer support more than me telling you what to do and how about you maybe listen to a colleague who perhaps understands your difficulties your challenges a bit better so this was key as part of the design of the community I had the three elements but like I said it wasn't like I planned every step but the three elements really work really well and perhaps in different contexts it won't work the same maybe champions won't work for a different initiative or to influence certain area of teaching but in this case it worked really well it's about digital tools and teaching really and remind me what the third one was so we you've got your community of practice you've got your champions who are people who are very generous with their time and respond to all those questions that we've all had what was the third key area for the the project it was peer coaching oh yes so explain it a little bit for us yes so part of obviously the title of champion had some responsibility as well so one of them was to support colleagues and when I gave training to the six champions I gave them a plan and said okay how are you going to support this within your your context and and what works in your context because they were very familiar to the to the challenges within their their faculty and we made a plan together as kind of a training and dissemination plan and and what the role will mean how what was possible what was not possible as well and what kind of support they could give always kind of in a loop between them and me and I was always part of of of that peer coaching in turn but their job was kind of to be the key contact within their faculty so yeah we had a plan and we went through the process of thinking what we could do I think what was key was that they created their own kind of artifact their own community if you want to call it within their their faculty or their department and people who go there instead of of the champions but that was before the pandemic and then it just went really big and then the champions community emerged and went critical I would say so 2020 was obviously a tough year it goes without saying but there was a couple of highlights in there and obviously the the champions site was definitely one of them but another one was that you received the Liverpool Learning and Teaching Fellowships in 2020 in recognition of your if your innovations so how are you planning to use that fellowship to further your development practice right so I'm super grateful for that fellowship and because with with the money I'm planning to develop I'm developing at the moment it's a video based resource it's an open source course and and I would like people to have access to that across the sector across the world if possible. because I think everybody should be able to replicate the success of the model. Like I said, maybe it doesn't work, but you have to try and regardless of your gender, your status, your position, I think everybody should have access to the possibility of leading a change initiative. And to me is very important to share what the model is about what works, what doesn't work and choose people to take on these resources and my experience and the elements of the model and how they they kind of relate to each other. So I'm hoping this open source course will give these tools to people, regardless of their job or where they're at. If they want to do it, I think everybody should should be able to do it. I also had a lovely interview with Vanger and Triner, which has the power couple in communities of practice and they're lovely. They were super useful. We had a nice conversation about what communities of practice are and what are not. And they were super candid about the mistakes and misunderstandings. And yeah, so I have shared the link for everybody who would like to watch it. They're really truly the experts and they were super useful when I when I had a chat with them. So that's how I used the money of their work. So thank you. So what's been the most surprising thing you've learnt whilst creating and developing this innovation in the midst of a pandemic. So I guess we're talking here about the model rather than the specific of how you've used that model to roll out the use of teams, but the model that you're developing what's been the most surprising thing that you've learnt. I think it's always about the people. I'm always surprised. I was very happy to see that leadership and commitment from others across the university to be there for others regardless of their own personal crisis at the beginning of the pandemic and still ongoing because it's really hard for everybody. So I'm to me that that has been the most rewarding. Yeah, for people who don't like the term champion. I think people really are champions in their own way because no matter what they put the interest of of of their colleagues beyond themselves and they really step in and help others in whichever capacity they can. So yeah, that is always to me. I'm amazed by the ability of people to just, you know, do what they can for others for the benefit of the institution that has been the greatest gift for me. Wonderful. And I think that's something we've seen throughout the whole of the pandemic in so many fields. Haven't we as people stepping up and being there for each other. That's really good. I think Liverpool is one of those places where there's a lot of goodwill and people have always willing to help other people. I think that's one of the major selling points of the university as an employer. Do you feel the same way Monica? I do. Yes, I think sometimes people want to help that just don't know how and if you introduce something that is very new. There is a lot of resistance. But once things roll out, yes, everybody's super helpful. Yeah, definitely the resistance to changes there, but the willingness to help others through their struggles is also there. So yeah, it's an interesting mix. I guess that's probably going to be one of the challenges, but obviously you faced many challenges, especially at the beginning when you were trying to get it off the ground before the pandemic. So many. How did you overcome those as you went through and as the community grew? Okay, well, where should I start? Because I was I was new to the university, even though I graduated from the School of English. I'm very low social capital. That's the first challenge. So I think I don't know, I don't want to generalize, but I think I've read books about women and career. And I think often the mistake women make is to really try to learn. And I think I know too much on the skill and learn every detail about the job and they don't focus very much on people and creating those relationships with people. So I was very conscious. Normally, a very confident person. And I know I knew I had the skills, but I was new to the university. And I knew I needed to create a lot of ships. So that was my first challenge. And that's what I was trying to do is leading change. And if you're new and you have certain status or lack of status, which is more accurate. Just people don't listen to you. It doesn't matter how brilliant or innovative your idea is if you don't have the right title. You're out. So you have to rely rely on the social capital on the other voices of people and bring collaboration and I like ship into into your work and just trust that people are really into the same thing they have. So you have an aligned vision with people and you you care about the same thing. So leading a change initiative as a newcomer, I think is super challenging. And because I truly care and people know me I'm a pain, but it's because I care. And obviously in technology adoption, there is another challenge because in all honesty, too many digital tools. So many competing priorities where research university, Russell group. And then you have your teaching and then you have a new VLE. And then there is this lady coming with Microsoft teams get out of here. I mean, it's the truth. That was a challenge technology adoption is super challenging. The research shows lack of time. Competing priorities, lack of support, these are the top. There are other reasons why people don't don't try new things. So when I thought, okay, let's let's develop this this model. I got the peers, I got the champions, why could work to kind of support and overcome these challenges is a community because it brings together time, you don't have time to for training. Okay, there is a community that could support you anytime you want you go. You seek support from your colleagues and somebody is going to reply. Somebody knows the answer. And lack of support, the support is there. We offer webinars. We offer the daily interactions, almost Q and A drop in. The support is there. So a kind of thought. Okay, I know I'm conscious of the barriers. How can we overcome them? So I think a community is a good option. I'm not saying is the solution for every problem. Or knowledge sharing initiative or change initiative. But it is a good option if you think about certain challenges. I think I can relate to a lot of that when I came into university, I came in from a different sector and I had ideas and thoughts about how to improve various things. But yeah, similarly, I mean, I didn't have the social capital in the same way. So I think some of my stuff was ignored. But it's building up over time. And I've still got plenty of ideas and things to give. But yeah, it's very difficult when you first start, especially I don't envy you. Try to bring in about a massive change initiative. And then you were faced with the pandemic as well. But as it turns out, that actually ended up being helped rather than a hindrance. I did see I saw some messages recently because I'm still quite active. I'm a bit of a lurker on the, I'll, I'll, I'll meet it on the champion site. And I saw some messages recently about the community is entering into it. What was the phrase mid life crisis mid life crisis. That was it. I would just I really liked the messaging because it's just so honest. The community is in its mid life crisis. The engagement maybe isn't quite as high as it was at the beginning of the pandemic. Because people have found out a lot of things and the practice has been changed. So I just want to get your thoughts on where is it going next really. I guess I have a vision for it that it would be about teaching and learning and becoming better at it to me that beyond digital or online teaching and learning to me is about just teaching and learning and and the interest over colleagues to get better. I think it's a bit to me that would be the ultimate vision, but you know, that's why so important. At least as a facilitator, I like to bring people in and have this community forums because I might be completely wrong. Maybe I'm deluded. Maybe I have no idea of the reality. So I like to regularly check in. And most recent one people said, well, there's still a need. You think people are I've gotten to grips with. with Microsoft Teams or with Zoom or with Canvas and not, we still need a lot of support, at least that is what I was told. And in my mind, I was like, yep, everybody knows what they're doing now and we are super skilled. So the long term vision is to become a space for the sharing of resources, sharing of practice and just keep asking questions and all honesty comments say, I have no idea how to do this assessment when using this tool or something around active online learning or online learning only. To me, that is the ultimate purpose of such space that people exchange their teaching practices. But yeah, like you said, at the moment, it's a challenging time for everybody. And I feel the interactions have decreased. And also when the facilitator is away, which I was for a while, because I was working very heavily on another project, it kind of dyes out. And you need people who are going to be feeding the community as well and kind of ringing that energy, I would say, into it. So in the last forum, we realized that there was still a need and I'm very open to suggestions. It's not that things cannot change. It's important to remain flexible, I think. But what do you think? At what your opinion, I would like to know what you think about it. - I think you're right. I think there were people who still definitely need a lot of support. But there is also a great deal of people who may feel that they've got what they need from these products. But I don't, I think there's still, there's a big gap there in terms of mastery. We haven't mastered everything. We're still using teams and Zoom in the obvious ways. And I do think there's really big opportunities to explore the third party add-ins, the apps, the AI elements, there's a lot that we can tap into definitely. And I guess that's where the Champions site really, really does sit because it will help people to get on board, but it also helps people to master these things. So I'm looking forward to its older age, once it gets past this, so Jim middle, I know. - I know. - I think it's okay to have such crisis because it gives its shape and its identity. And I think it's important to be honest, we don't know where we're going or we are kind of facing a rough badge and things are slow, but there is always hope to reinvent yourself, right? Isn't that what me life crisis is about? (upbeat music) - Well, what I've loved about that conversation, Monica, is just getting to know you a bit more. And what's really coming across through what you're saying is that you are a highly reflective person. And in terms of what you said about your reflections on your social capital and your standing in the university, but actually then you've kind of taken that into account and you've developed this highly influential model as a result of that. Like in terms of those barriers that you face, did you strategically reflect on them and then develop your model as a result? Or has that just been organic? - I guess it is a mix of both. Right? I did start with the idea of a champions program and I knew what champions would mean. I do reflect a lot in, I can be very stubborn and very passionate 'cause I have a set of values, a professional values, and I'm conscious not everybody's going to align to my values and that's fine. And I think I do listen to other people, I'm open to what they have to say and when things are no working out, I do seek for advice. So based on conversations, I think this has been the most powerful thing in this development of this model, the conversations I've had with, not only with the champions, my six allies across faculties, but also colleagues from CIE and also beyond. I always seek to bring people who maybe are not so familiar with my work, but maybe they have experience in similar initiatives. So I'm very humble, I don't have all the answers. So always, to me it's important to remain humble and open and when I know things are no working out, I just don't beat myself up, what I do. But then I kind of snap out of it. And I seek other people's input. And if I think it aligns to what I'm trying to do with my values, then I will take it on. - Brilliant. - So it's a mix, 'cause I had kind of a blueprint and then from there you take it on. And you face things along the way, unexpected. It's like life itself, you don't know what's around the corner and you become more and more resilient as you grow into it. - Yeah, and you learned from your mistakes, which is I think what you've shown through this conversation and through the evidence of the Champions Channel is that mistakes have been made, but you built on those mistakes. And that's, I love that, I love that approach. Nothing can be perfect first time. I don't know if this is relevant, but I feel like I have to say it. And I was very lucky. It was a bit of luck as well. Because I got the support of the program manager from Microsoft Dominic Williamson. I don't know how he found me, but he approached me and said, "Would you like to start a Champions program?" And that's it. He then left me to it for weeks. And the next time I met him, he was really pleased with what I had done. And he was on board in the training and he was very encouraged. And so he kind of mentored me for a period of nine months. He has moved on now. He's in a, he got better promotion. He'd been Microsoft. And he was, he's such an inspiring man. And I thank him at the end. And I said, "Thank you." I was very grateful because he didn't know me. He believed in me. And I think in my sector, digital education, is mostly white males. And I was so flattered that a brown woman like me had been spotted and he went through my CV in LinkedIn. And he said, "Well, I think you look like someone who could do the job, so do you want to do it." So he gave me that opportunity. And I will always be grateful for that. But he also left me to it. He gave me a lot of freedom to develop everything. He just said, "Okay, you're going to develop this. I'll come back and check in." So I don't know, maybe it was fate. But I'm really grateful for it. And I think he was conscious of the lack of diversity sometimes in the sector. We always see the same kind of faces, leading things, at least in my sector and digital education. And it was very refreshing. And I hope people find it refreshing. There is not the same type of profile who has achieved something like this. Monica, that conversation has been really interesting. And I know there's lots that I'm going to go away and think about in terms of my practice. We love to finish each podcast with three or four kind of take home tips that the listeners can reflect on in terms of their own personal practice. So if you could leave us with a couple of tips, what would they be? - Okay. I think the first one would be, please do not underestimate the importance of creating a sense of belonging by creating online communities. Maybe beyond the professional or learning communities also for our students, it's super important to create at the moment, online communities for them. And I think tapping into the collective will always be more powerful that going solo. So that's the first thing. Second is, if you have a wacky idea that everybody's telling you not to do it, to implement it in your practice, just go for it. And remember to enlist your allies, those who align to your values, your professional values. And finally, always improve what you have created to not settle for whatever outcome if you have had success. It's not about the success, I think it's about the product. So always focus on improving what you have created. And I said that, listen to the voices around you, the people who want to support you. And especially those voices that perhaps have been marginalized because of their gender or their race or their status, is really important. what they have to say. So this is my top three. That's wonderful. That's really good. And congratulations again on your Liverpool learning and teaching fellowship. It's great to be working with you this year as a fellow and we're really pleased about that. And in our conversation, you mentioned some of your allies. I'm interested in knowing who those people are. My allies, so I would like to thank them. I'm going to go by faculty from HHS says is John Brindle and Clive Newton. HHS is Rob Prihar and Maria Limnu and from Science in Engineering is Chris Edmonds. And my colleague Tunde, Tunde Varga Adkins, she is superstar to me as well. So thank you. This has been with me from the beginning and their input has been super useful. They are the champions really. Wonderful. Thanks. Thank you Monica. Thanks for your time. Well, it's great to have Monica with us and I've got to say I think we're really lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and as passionate about digital education as we do have with Monica. She used all of her experience, particularly that time that she spent in a very digitally fluent Hong Kong to drive the initiative forward for all of our benefits. Yeah, I particularly thought the work Monica's done to understand how effective communities of practice can be developed is really inspirational. I'm certainly going to reflect on those three key components of effective communities of practice that she spoke about. Thinking about finding something that you're interested in, thinking about finding something that other people are interested in and then finding your allies or your champions to work with. And she's certainly done that for the work that she's done with Microsoft Teams. Well, there's lots for us to go away and to reflect on in terms of that conversation. If you'd like to take your thinking further, we've added some resources to the website on a specific podcast reading list, which you can access at livapool.ac.uk/thee-admonds. Also, do let us know what you thought about the episode. You can tweet us @LivUniaCademy and you can also find us @elernamatt or @Alexandra_oIn on Twitter. And as usual, we're really grateful for those who have taken the time to either rate or review our show in your podcast providers app. So if you are an Apple user, please do take the time to review our show as it really will help others find us. Bye for now. [Music]