Building a Coffee Empire: From Colombia to Your Cup in 48 Hours | Gavico Group CEO, Fernando Gaviria

Welcome to Innovation and Leadership. I'm Jess Larson. On today's show we get to have Fernando, Fernando, I know I'm going to mess up your last name so I'm going to have you pronounce it correctly. Gaviria. That's right. So, um, introduce for me, good friend Andrea and you guys have been in the coffee business for over 50 years in the family and so often I get to have CEOs on the show who are important, who are exporting something they made in America out around the world. And so I thought it'd be really fun to have a Colombian on about bringing their products to America and around the world. Can you tell us a little bit about the company and what sets you apart from other people in the coffee business? Great. Thank you, Jess. Thank you very much. So yeah, my topic of my polish started in the coffee business in the early 70s and you know, Colombia being a third world country, what what we did in the coffee business is that we always solved the green beam. We didn't develop an industry. The reason for that is that we didn't have the mic to develop an industry. You know, we didn't have the money to place a brand in different countries. You know, it was expensive, it was difficult, it was meant only for the big guys, you know, the general of the world, you know, the crafts of the world. So we what we did is that we solved the green beams. And we have seen everybody make money except Colombia. We've seen the star months of the world than the stress of the world. Everybody and actually more than 93% of the coffee world drink is not made in Colombia. It's not made by Colombian companies and it's not made by Colombians. Here you go. So being a new generation, you know, and having it, having the fortune of having an education in Europe, you know, seeing the world, you know, being less afraid of the world, I said, you know what, I'm going to change that. You know, I need people to drink Colombian coffee made in Colombia. I feel a bit like it from Mexican, you know, Mexican tequila. If Mexican tequila was made in Norway and Kentucky and Italy and suddenly a Mexican racist his son says, "Guys, do you want to have some Mexican tequila?" I think there's a grout for that and I believe it's the same for coffee. Now it's time that we can enjoy, you know, that people can enjoy a product made in Colombia, made in origin with all itself, the municipality, all its attributes. And well, we're very happy to be, to get this flight. There's a lot of interesting things behind all this. Yeah, so even though I'm not a coffee drinker, of course, we all know about how famous Colombian coffee is, can you talk about the, you know, besides the authenticity of the story, like the actual quality of product instead of sending green beans and they sit around in a storehouse for six months before they get fresh roasted, you know, things like that? I think what I'm going to say right now, in all the roasting companies in the States are going to be very happy with me, but it's the truth. You know, you get a lot of companies that says, you know, our coffee is recently roasted, you know, freshly roasted coffee. But what they don't say is what they're roasting are freshest, but the roast is, it's a bit like freshly fried fish, but nobody tells you that the fish has been in the fridge for the past six months. So what happens is that because of logistics, basically the coffee travels in a boat, then it goes to the States, or New York, or Croatia, whatever, they're in warehouses because it's being managed by a trader, you know, by a terminary and it stays in the warehouse, then it goes to the roasting and then it goes to the supermarket. So that takes a lot of time, you know, that takes a lot of time and probably we've seen that many of the green beans that are being roasted can have four to six months being warehouse. So we're changing that dramatically because from green beans to roasting, your house, it's a process that can take 48 to 12. Oh wow. Because you fly it, you fly it from Colombia. We fly it. Everything that we're doing right now, it's airship, we have a premium product and this is very important because Colombian coffee per se, it's an expensive commodity because it's a very artisanal product, you know, it's thrown in the mountains and people pick it up by hand, they wash it, you know, it's not an industrial process, you know, like coffee, in Brazil or Vietnam, which is machines, you know, they go around and pick up everything, you know, a very industrialized, this is very artisanal. So artisanal. So I'm sure my English is not that great. So the reason is that since it's an expensive commodity, we decided, you know, to make a very, very good, pretty product, you know, there's a market for people that enjoy good wines, with waters, you know, good products and that's the people that we're trying to reach. So it's the best of the best, it's the best, we don't mix it with inferior beans, we take everything which is inferior out, we just do cafe excelso, which means that it has to be both the threshings and bad things are kept away and the good coffee is the one that we're producing. Yeah, you know, it's interesting the world of premium products. I think about how so many of us, we get, we get something that we, it's fun to collect it or it's fun to be a connoisseur of it. Like this is silly, but like I love root beer, soda in America so much. I've tried so many different kinds of root beers and it's like, it's done, but it's my thing, like I love it, you know, and as it become more health conscious, I don't drink it as often, but I still love it as much. But I think about both friends that are CEOs or investors, but also a lot in the special operations community of US special ops. I think these guys had a lot of time in Afghanistan and racked to brew their coffee and there wasn't a lot of other pleasures. So I've got, you know, friends out of tier one unit, so it will spend like a lot of time to make a great cup of coffee, a great cup of coffee. And so when you think about a truly premium artisanal product as opposed to the commodity of coffee, how do you set up the business differently? How do you think about your marketing differently? Well, I think that we're getting into the market now because, you know, marketing and distribution has changed. Before it was very costly, you know, it was this, they advertised, we can TV, you know, and all this was very expensive. Today it's word of mouth. Today is social media. So it gives us an opportunity, you know, for companies that are not as big, you know, we don't have those resources like the big companies in the US, but we can get our voice heard, you know, we can scope. So we're doing everything, you know, reaching out to influencers that love coffee, that have a passion for coffee, we find that a lot of people have a passion for coffee. Coffee is the drink that most people have in the morning. You know, I understand that you don't drink coffee and basically just you're a minority. It's small, very small minority because many people, you know, after water, coffee is the drink, you know, is that everybody has. So and not too many, there's two sides of the story. There's a lot of people that are very passionate about coffee and there's a lot of people that drink whatever is hot in the morning, you know, and that kills me because it's such an important drink for me because it's my companion. It's what I wake up with, you know, it's my friend, throughout the day, that I like people to drink good coffee. Why would you drink that coffee and also I'm health conscience. So our coffees are lab tested, no, we test our badges for octoxins, for micro-toxins, so we make such a good product, such a healthy product, the factories, MSSC222 class, which is the most standard for more health and security. So I want people to have good coffee, you know, I would love people to have good coffee. If they're going to have it anyways, you know, I'm a great good coffee, I'm a great product, I have something that's good for you. And now that you mentioned special ops, there's a great company that has been also an inspiration for us because we've been looking around with the companies that have been successful and one of them is called Black Rifle Coffee. Oh yeah, my friend Jeff was one of the co-founders of that. Okay, okay, look at Black Rifle Coffee. I started, I think, I'm sorry, in Afghanistan, he took some coffee and everybody loved it and everybody wanted him to give them some coffee and it's truly e-commerce online company that grew in e-commerce. He didn't grow in retail, didn't grow in supermarkets, but it grew direct to consumer and you know that they have around 300,000 subscribers and it's a company which is valued at around a billion dollars now. You got up to 1.5 billion dollars. So we see that e-commerce and subscription, you know, and direct to consumer is the new tendency, you know, we've worked with the company. We're not thinking about retail. We're thinking about this new way of getting to the consumer and talking directly to you. - Yeah, I remember going down a meeting, Jeff's co-founder Evan at their facilities when they were, the main ones were in Salt Lake, Utah. And they actually brought a bunch of like Afghans who had helped them during the war, helped them emigrate to the United States and were like in the warehouse there, helping with their merch and their shirts and like really creating kind of a cult brand where the people who were into Black Rifle, I like really into Black Rifles, right? And they kind of gave people something to belong to, right? And something to say, to separate themselves from the millions of other coffee drinkers of like, I'm a this kind of coffee drinker. When you think about how often the best product doesn't necessarily win. I remember in the old videotape days when there was VHS and beta. And I guess objectively, beta max was a better recording, was a better product. But they just weren't able to get into the customer mind. They weren't, and when VHS got into video stores like Blockbuster and there was more of those to rent and there was these other factors when the best product didn't win. So it's not a guarantee, right? And yet, if you can match the owning the customer mind and finding your people and bringing them together and having them feel like they're part of your story or whatever, the best product is, it's showing up with a competitive advantage of like we actually are legitimately better. So when you think about this 50 year family legacy in the business, you're actually in Columbia, knowing the difference, knowing the nuances of why things that are called fresh roasted, climbing coffee are not quite what they claim. And you think about crossing cultures, whether it's into the United States or other countries. What are some of the key lovers? Like when you think about the wins that you are having, where are they coming from? - I think just that one of the most important things, business is lower strengths and lower weakness while as low your strengths. So we know where we're strong. And we're strong in a product. You know, we're strong in a product that we make. And we know our weakness is cracking the code. I call it cracking the code because it's a code like you say. You know, you get great products that never make it happen and the other side is also true. You have terrible products that are extremely successful. As a coffee connoisseur, you know, I've seen a lot of very bad coffees that are very successful. And I've seen a lot of very good coffees that don't sell anything. So for me, it's like cracking a code. And this cracking a code is my biggest challenge. And this challenge, I have to, I, it's gonna take a while and it's gonna take some trial and error. But one of the things we're looking for, you know, in this adventure is that we would like to find in the different countries that we get, for example, in the US right now, our likes are orders that are stronger than also the selling side. Because nobody's, we're very arrogant in the producing side. We're the greatest in the producing side. We're not that good on the selling side. So I think that what we look for right now is that complement. You know, that we're stronger in the production side and we need to find partners in the selling side that have already done this cracking of the code. And that can give us a much better possibility of earning our space in the consumer's mind. There's six million tourists that come to Colombia here. And what you see is that every tourist that comes to Colombia goes back to their country with the backup form. And they go back saying, this is a different coffee than the one I can buy in my country. This is the authentic product, you know? And they go very happy taking back the authentic product. So we can tell the people, you don't have to come on the way here. How we're doing it for you. You know, we're taking it from you to your house. And you can have that pleasure of having the authentic product every day in your house. I think that's what we need to, that's our crowd. You know, those are the people that we need to get to. But again, building a great team with artists in the US, you know, we need artists in the US to be able to. Yeah. Tell me what city you're based out of. I'm in Bogota, Colombia. Okay. And how far is it to like the coffee fields? Like if you did coffee tourism, I think you are like, I have friends who come to Colombia on vacation. I think it's beautiful and they love it. If you're gonna do coffee tourism, how far is it from like your headquarters out to see where it gets picked or in roasting facilities, things like this? So, so basically we have coffee all around the country. You know, we have coxney in many places in the country. And in one hour by car, you already can see coffee. So it's just an hour away from Bogota that you can already experience the coffee fields. And I think that something else that is bound to happen is that, and this is amazing. Yes. Whenever I talk to people, they begin to understand how crazy this is. Colombia and coffee is a trade line. That is known by everybody around the world. People in the US, Colombia and coffee, people in Europe, Colombia and coffee, people in the United East should come and be coffee. And it's regarded as one of the best coffee fields. But when you ask people, named three brands from Colombia, they don't exist. When you tell people, have you gone to Colombia to do a tour like they do a napavali, a wine tour like the napavali tour, it doesn't exist. So I think we still have so much to build here around our coffee culture, which is an exceptional opportunity. Because people, when they come here, they want to have the experience that you give them in napavalia. We're still not there. We're beginning, you know, the hotels that are being set up in the coffee regions are fully booked. You cannot imagine they're fully booked in a whole year. So I think that there's no brand behind that. There's no content brand behind it. It's still like a commodity with no branding. Actually, I want to interrupt for one second. Let's tell people what the brand is, what the website is. If they are like a coffee drinker thinking this, they want to look into it. Are our brands? Yeah. Okay, so our family brand is called Cafe Gabi, which is short for Gabi via GABI. And our website is www.cafegabi.com. I want to talk about a little more of your path. You know, growing up in a prominent coffee family in Columbia, you decided to go to school outside of the country. Where did you go? So let me begin with a fun story. I'm a bit of an accident because when my mother got pregnant, my oldest brother was 20 years old. My other brother was 17 years old and my sister was 15 years old. So my oldest brother, when my mother told him that she was pregnant, my oldest brother fainted. My father almost got a heart attack. You know, he was wondering who he's from, you know? So I was a big accident. I was born 15 years after my sister. That was a small guy. I'm the young one in the family. And I went to school and I did my college in London. And then from London, I went to Paris and I worked a bit in Paris. And also the idea was gone with three languages, gone back to Columbia with the also with the French language, you know? That my father said that speaking a language, a new language was always something that opened the mouth of doors and opened it. Well, he was right. I really enjoyed living in Paris, though. And then I came back here and I joined the family's company. You know, and they had several companies from Cocoa, obviously coffee. And then they had a financial company, a brokerage company, where they did just as an investment. But that investment, in a certain point, we bought the whole company. And nobody, my company was too much into finances. Why ended up going there and leading that company? Oh, which was the brokerage company. In 2012, my father passed away. And the night before he passed away, one of the things that we spoke about is that he said, "Don't let our coffee like a sea." And you know, that's the only thing I ask for you. Don't let it end. And I think that's the engine behind doing all this effort, and trying to crack this code and get our products into it. You let's know. Yeah. It sounds like he had a lot of respect for your father. What's one of the lessons he learned from him? Oh, he was a great friend of mine. He was a great guy. I think honesty. I think about it. We are a family with very, very strong values, because he was very strict with values. Honesty, there was nothing that any of my father hated more than a life. So, you know, being truthful and being respected. So those honesty about staying the truth, you know, being truthful. Even if it's bad, I think it's something that's kept in my life. That's funny. My hero is kind of like my second father. It's my mom's dad, my grandpa Jim Bridge. And it's funny here you say that because it makes me think about like, my grandpa was like a large of life figure, but just so committed to his integrity and honesty. And, you know, my father was the same, but very, very respectful. And I think it becomes such a magnet, you know. My grandpa was kind of a big deal in where we grew up. And yet he was so respectful of others. And he didn't walk around like he was a big deal. And I really admire that about him. You said the magic work. I think you have it when you asked me, but it's holding Tiger. I think that's what's it all about. And there's something funny because you see that the world is lacking. More you see is that it's becoming a scars, resource integrity. And when you have it and when you feed it, you share it. That's what I teach my kids. I don't care of many other things, you know, be somebody, you know, with integrity, with respect. So that's what it is. Yeah. You know, another question I want to ask is about having a business that lasts for multiple decades. You know, in the U.S., it's very trendy to like start a venture capital back business and try and sell it as soon as you can. You know, and yet the greatest investor in the history of the world, Warren Buffett, he says his favorite holding period is forever. He tries to buy businesses that make a strong margin and never sell them. It's, you know, statistically unlikely, you know, most businesses that get started up, don't make it past the first year, level in the first five years, then the first ten years. And it's just such a small number that like your family have lasted 50 plus years. What are some of the things that you think are different both about your family and is that when you took over CEO, by the way, when your father passed or was that later that you took over CEO? Well, the companies, the past companies that we had were involved all the vehicle. So I took all of that, you know, baggage that we had, but I built a new company. Okay. This is a British product. Okay. This is a recent company. This is not the one. Okay. 50 years. And the reason for that is also to try to foresee a future for the company. So the future I foresee for the company is that we have our brand, which is Skapig Abbey, but we're also working on collaboration. We see that the market, you know, is very interesting to do a select backed product, you know, celebrity background. So we are, we see this company as a multi brand company and we see the company also as a multi reaching company because the people drink columning coffee, US, Asia, Middle East, where. So we have this big, big spectrum of possibilities of one of them also is to build products with, with celebrities that lock up to you and that maybe you're not interested in an alcoholic product, you know, like the key that like the brain, just the key that we're closing and maybe, you know, they want something like coffee, which is very, let's say, very neutral. No, it's good for men and women. It's healthy in a certain way. So we see that building this portfolio of brands are exit in the future is that we want to be the first columning company, the first columning copy company to go and they'll make an ideal. Nobody has needed. So probably there we want to be the first one as well, you know, and this, this, this IPO will be very happy because then many Colombians can also be part of this project, you know, they can buy into the company, they can have their share. So that's, that's the vision that we have. Yeah. So thank you for the clarification there, but I want to go back to, when you look at how your family did business, what principles do you think? I mean, we talked about integrity and honesty and respect from your father. What other principles do you think helped the family business last for decades? So well, I think also is the people behind this. You guys, it's the Salute of the Director of my father and my brothers. And it's something I learned with them, just for the mentalist that a good partnership can take you along. So in the green, in the green coffee business, we work partners with Rod Fos Corporation from Germany, and later on with Loim and Coffee. And those are the biggest traders of green coffee. And then in the industrial site, where we did a soluble coffee and coffee extract, we're partners with Mitsubishi Corporation from Japan. So I think having great partners and having, again, those values of doing things in the correct way, in being respectful and being honest, are keys to having long term companies. And this type of partners are some long term partners. You see, Japanese are long term partners. Whenever they have a partnership, it's forever. They don't change partners like other cultures. They are very ant. Again, the German partners, we're all small, long term partners. So I think that's what kept the company. And I had my two older brothers working with my father. So I'm almost like a third generation, being a second one, I'm almost like a third one. So the key for the continuation is that my father had my two brothers as well to work with them. So they were able to, where my father was tired, my eldest brother stepped up to the CEO position. That change of baton is the one that made it possible for us in the 50 years. Yeah. When you think about the natural ups and downs of business, a lot of people think at some point we're going to have another big recession. We haven't had a real recession since 2008. That's a long time to build up. And over 50 years, your family had been through many cycles and changing markets and changing attitudes about coffee. When you think about adapting to change, not just over a matter of months, but over a matter of decades. Do you have any thoughts about that or advice for CEOs listening today thinking about lasting the test of time when you are going to go through recessions? You are going to go through cultural differences and government political differences and import laws change and still adapting and overcoming. Yeah, I think that you have to understand that you're going to be a radical person. You know, if you're radical in your thoughts, we're going to crash because you have to be able to change the times. You have to be able to mold yourself different times. And I think that adapting is the work. You have to adapt. You have to understand what are the challenges that are being brought. I think that one of the things that will accept is being one step ahead. You know, you have to prepare for the future. You have to always be prepared for what's happening. You have to read the markets. You have to read the public. You have to read what's happening. You have to understand that those things have to happen. You have to have cycles. And the cycles you have to learn how to write the cycles. You know, and I think that what they did well was writing the cycles. You know, they knew how to anticipate the cycles and be able to adapt. But they're always a cycle. And they're always well-thought. And that's how you often know that it's going to be like that. It's never going to be stable. You know, as you are describing it, it actually makes me think about it like a sport. And how as the seasons go on, now you're playing a new team where there's new players. And they've got some, they've got some offense that you haven't seen before. And how are you going to defend against it? How are you going to break through for your own offense? And, you know, it's never a static thing. I think so often in business, especially in the finance side, we like to think, oh, I'll buy this and it works like this. And then these margins will continue forever. And really, there's more of a river, isn't it? Yes. It is ever changing, so. Yeah. When you think about the biggest influences that have helped you become successful, what comes to mind? Again, being in the form of a family business, you grow up looking at it, you know, looking at them like heroes. And I think they've been a great part of it. People that have influenced me. There's some businessmen here in Colombia that I respect a lot, and I've seen them make wonderful things. And then I get a chance to see people by the ones you interview in your podcast. And that is where you say, you know, the sky is the limit. You know, human beings have great potential. Human beings, you know, are able to do whatever they set their minds. And I think that in every corner, in every, you know, book that you read, in every podcast that you listen to, there's always a lesson. There's somebody always teaching you something great. So I think that that being open, being having that humbleness of saying, man, it's beautiful, people do, you know, let's learn a bit how they did it, you know. I think it's getting all this thoughts together that makes you a complete person. I think that's the key. Listening. Listening is wonderful, you know, I think listening is a great virtue, knowing how to listen. Yeah, it's funny. I think everyone would agree with us on that. And I don't know anybody who claims to be a bad listener, right? And it's like a, you know how it's like only 50% of people can be an above average driver. But 90% of people think that they are the, they're above average drivers, right? It's like, I can't think of people that I know that walk around saying I'm a bad listener. And yet we all know those people that are incredibly good listeners that are different than the average. What do you think makes an incredibly good listener? First of all, I think that intelligence and ego things to do with it. You know, you cannot let, you know, I've seen that very intelligent people handle their ego, so that they're up at control of the rate. And insecure people have big, those are the ones that have recognition of loudly, say, being a real electric patient. I think it's just the, it's just an insecurity, you know, it's just a way to upsetting secret. But I think that, when this leadership people that are, that are capable themselves, that I've got, they know that they're, that they're good enough, let's say, in certain ways. So, because they don't have to put anything to anyone because they out this high respect for themselves, or they do good at all themselves. And they love to listen. They love to learn about what other people have to do with life, or have to offer it. So, I think a good listener has to do a lot with the stage you're in within yourself, evolution, the only way with it. How good you feel about yourself. I'll show you about me, you are. I think that's, yeah, I think that's a great insight. I was with a couple of individuals yesterday who are quite accomplished at their craft. And one kept making, almost like small jokes, but they were very concerned about getting the recognition they were due. And they're, these who are really quite good friends. And the one was kind of poking fun at the other. And it was in a totally good, natured way. But at the same time, he couldn't quite take the joke. And he had to, he had to make the comments about it and had to, you know, and he couldn't quite take it in the way it was received. He needed to, he needed to justify himself. He needed to rationalize himself. And the thing is, I think that both of the rest, like both of us thought highly of him already. He didn't, you know, it was his perception about not having enough standing in the conversation. It wasn't actuality. Like we both, we both were talking to him like a peer. We both considered him very skill that what he does. And yet he needed that, he needed to get those comments in. He needed to get that external proof out there. Right? And so as you're talking, as I'm running out this story, I think about myself and how I do that. And how can I do that less? And, you know, I, I thought like, why do I feel I'm really into audiobooks, right? And I consumed a very large number. And why do I feel the need to tell people the number of how many audiobooks I've consumed or like with the podcasting? You know, like there's times when telling people that, you know, I've done over a thousand episodes, and here's the kind of people that have been on it, is almost a service to them to like give them a sense of who they're talking to, right? Of the like, instead of them having to figure out like, oh, is this like a cute little hobby on the side? Or have you, have you been doing this for over a month, Jess? Or you know, like, you're like, sometimes it's just the information. And that's actually helpful to a conversation. And it's right, like me finding out like, you know, do you, do you sweep the floors at the coffee roasting place? Or are you the CEO that runs the whole thing? It's going to change what conversation we have and what's relevant. And right? And, and yet there's times where I talk about the podcast and I talk about who's been on it to prove that I'm acceptable as a person. And that I matter. And it's purely for my insecurities. And it's, it's purely to be well thought of. And it's almost like, maybe I don't think highly enough of myself. So I need this external evidence so that you'll be impressed with me. So then I can be impressed with myself because I'm worried about myself, you know? And, and, and anyways, I don't know if you have any thoughts or comments on that. Let me tell you something, Jess, just to recognize what you're just told me. To recognize how vulnerable we are, recognize that we have insecurities, recognize that we're art from birth, but art from from all, every day being a good day, we have good days, we have bad days, we're far from being no larger than life, that itself is security. Being able to share this with me is security to me. What is insecurity is having all that and hiding it and not being able to express it or not being able to admit it. Not as insecurity, but if you say, you know, you know, man, sometimes I need to feel that that what I'm doing is good enough, you know what you're alive, that's human, that's you're right, you're right. Me, I need to know that my coffee is good enough, you know? I need people to tell me, you know, I love your coffee, you know? But that's part of that, that's part of what I do, that's part of the dynamics, you know? Not because I'm sure of myself, I'm going to be sure that everybody loves my coffee, that's that's also big of a bit of a shirt. No, no, no, no, I think that's that's, yes, of the country, I see that that you are a very secure person about yourself and you you're so secure that you know you're insecure. I am definitely, you know, I definitely have the intention to work on it more and I'm trying to catch myself more and I think one of my favorite quotes about humility I've ever heard was that humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking about yourself less, like thinking about yourself less often. And I thought about the people who, who I have a lot of respect for in how they conduct themselves and they are very others focused and it's not like they aren't ambitious and they aren't trying to accomplish what they do but when they meet you they're very interested in you instead of how to get you interested in them and and then it reciprocates and then it does make people very interested in them. So I don't know, I think about that sometimes. I agree with that and I love the quote, I'm going to use it, I love it, it's not about things less about yourself because that's not, that's not, oh you can love, you know, lessen yourself, you have to make it as less about yourself and more about know all the people that everything else, you know, and I think that's a great quote. Yeah, you know, maybe switching gears, I'm interested in Columbia, you know, we've got team members all over the world, you know, we've had them in friends and Philippines and Canada and all up and down south from Central America and we repeatedly end up with Columbians on the team. That for whatever reason, like we end up with a lot of Brazilians and a lot of Columbians, it just keeps happening and I think about the business world, the investing world and so often it's Americans that people around the world hear about or sometimes maybe it's Jack Maugh from China or this, you know, great investor from England or something like that but I don't know a lot about the great Columbian businessmen and business women. When you think about what's what maybe the Columbian culture has excelled at, when you think about the business people from Columbia, in what ways are they special compared to entrepreneurs or investors from other parts of the world? Well, Columbians are very hard working, know they're hard working people and they are, they are, they've had to be successful in difficult times, you know, guerrilla, security, high, very high interest rates for banks, you know, they've had to, and even, even though they've had all these difficulties, they've been able to build their country. But that's a good sign. But that sign is that Colombians don't believe in nothing. They are still this mentality that we're not good enough. Yeah, good enough, let's say. And that's why you don't see many Colombians in the business world, you know, in the top positions, you know, you see more and more people from other countries. But you don't see, I don't think you see many people from third world countries in great positions. I think it's your beginning to see that. We're beginning to be in ourselves. We're beginning to be able to interact with great companies and great people in other parts of the world that are also helping us grow more because we cannot do it on our own. But now you see more and more latins, third world country people that have more success stories that are expanding their businesses. I think that the world is becoming, you know, just a big region, you know, there's the boundaries every time are getting less and less. So I think that you're going to see the future more and more latins, you know, that are out there. But again, I think that, again, a cycle of a process, you know, young countries, not that, not that we're not a wealthy country, you know, we're a person who's wealthy in Colombia and vessels is far from wealthy in the States. You know, it's, it's different kinds of wealth. You live very well here with very little, you know, you put that to dollars. You live like a king here. You have bodyguards. You have bulletproof guards. You have a country club, so that. And then if you put that all that into dollars, you know, it's very few dollars, you know, it's not that much. So I think that also success here as a different, it's a different size of success because when you're there and you're talking to your people, they talk to this guy, sorry, and the billions of dollars, you know, this is, that's another type of success. That's another, another, another, uh, measure of success. So I think we're in a different measure. Definitely, we're in a different measure. Yeah. And we're in the different robots, no, it's, we're getting there. We're beginning to, to see how we, how we reach the world. Yeah. Um, I think one of the things that, uh, quite, I love, uh, when I think about over generalizations and things that I love about Latin Americans is like, uh, friendliness, um, coming into faith and family. And, um, I, I, I don't know, we're so lucky to have so many on our team. Um, I, I think about like, I had a, a gentleman from Chile on the show who was one of the first, uh, venture capital backed South American companies to go from zero to a billion, you know. And there is like an optimism or like a, um, like a, I don't know, it feels like a rising tide. So many, you know, I was in Miami last week and met a number of folks who, um, had maybe been born in other countries before coming to the States and then they go back and forth and stuff like this. And, uh, there is like, I don't know, it, there's a sense of things are getting better. More can be accomplished. Like, um, that, uh, I don't know. I just, I respect kind of almost that like entrepreneurial spirit of like, well, we're going to try and, uh, without, without a guarantee, you know, exactly. And that's what we're doing as well. You know, we, we just, you know, we're trying, we're trying to get there. You know, and I think that's, um, what's wonderful. I love it. But again, we'll guarantee nothing. It's just, uh, you know, you have to fight for your space there. You've never been to Columbia, just, no, I'd love to come. Uh, you have to go. We'll be very happy to have you. Okay, great. I'll thank you about that. Um, I, uh, you know, some of my friends, um, we're involved with folks who are, um, making a lot of Netflix content down in Columbia and just speaking about, um, even how the media world has, has been taking off more and more. And, um, it just seems like there's so much potential opportunity and it just feels like the best is yet to come in so many ways. I know that you've been involved and I've told me that you're involved right now in everything that has to be held on M.K. Age. Long journey. Uh, obviously there's a market, a normal market in this region for that as well. No. And you have all this, all this, uh, all this, uh, let's call it business man. You know, all of us businessmen, this country's, they have the same needs to be as the businessmen in space. They won't be, you know, healthy. They want to keep up being young. They want to, uh, enjoy what they've made, you know, and, and I think it's a huge business here. It's a very interesting, uh, area at one that you're in. Well, it's, it's fascinating to me to realize, you know, I had this mindset about how long people live. And it was purely as matter of my circumstances because, uh, I looked up like life expectancy when my grandpa was born in 1922 and it was 54 years old for men and 60 for women. And since that time, it's gone up by over 20 years. Like in the US, it's 74 for men and, and 80 for women. And then I looked 100 years before him in 1822, you know, in the US. And it was, uh, it was 44. It was 44, you know, it got from, it got, you know, and so I think about like, you know, my grandpa, his grandparents, you know, his great grandparents had been born 100 years earlier. Like, it's not that many generations to think like on average, we're living 20, 30 years longer. And so this idea of like, okay, back then, what was killing people, you know, when my grandpa was born, was killing people was polio and tuberculosis and things that are not killing people anymore. You know, the, the advances in science figured how, what to do about those infectious diseases. And now we're living to the next phase. And what's killing us now is cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, you know, like that, we've lived past that one. And now we're just at the next thing that kills people, chronic diseases. And I, I know that we don't like have the best answers fully baked, but it just doesn't feel unreasonable that if we put enough time and money and smart people into infectious diseases and we largely overcame a lot of it, that, you know, billions or possibly trillions of dollars and some of the smartest PhDs in the world, hyper focused on overcoming what's killing us now could be reasonable. And we, you know, if, if we can prevent cancer, heart disease or diabetes in the first place, maybe we get another 10 years or, you know, maybe by the time my grandparents are around, it's another 10 or 20 years or more, right? And then we'll figure out, okay, what kills people, what kills people at 100, what kills people at 110 or something, you know, and the general population gets to live that extra 10, 20 years longer. And then we'll find out what that is. And then biotech can focus on that next. My mother will be 99 years old. What's the key to the longevity? What you're putting your mouth. That's killing us, no? We're eating, you know, very processed foods. No, but a lot of things that shouldn't be there. So I think that what you're putting your mouth is, is a great deal of health. You know, because she eats, she's always eating very little, not much. And she's always want. And she do like elevators. She suffers from claustrophobia. Whenever she was in a hotel, she wanted the third or the fourth, she went upstairs, down the stairs, upstairs, upstairs, and it's just walking, doing some exercise. And eating well. And she's 99 years old, you know, and I think it's, you know, a few things can make a big difference. Yeah, it's funny how it seems like it should be something way more dramatic, right? But like, you think about exercises, a super drug, you know, eating more vegetables and fruits and maybe some fish and shrimp or something, but like, you know, less carbs and sugar, maybe, maybe, you know, not as many steaks as I would normally like to eat, right? You know, like those ratios and that compound interest of that over time and, you know, adding good sleep, adding in sleep, like those three together, incredible. Before you even get to the advanced stuff of the, you know, pharmaceuticals or neutrocyticals, you know, and some of the more advanced stuff, like, it's almost, it's almost like too easy that we don't do it because it should be, it seems like it should be more dramatic than that, you know? And it's like, how many days do I not exercise because I was too busy, right? And that's not true. Nobody's too busy for anything. It's just a matter of priorities in life. And I think it's so simple that I could have gone into my pushups and gone on a walker run that I lied to myself about getting to it tomorrow or things like that. And I'm super, super fascinated in almost like the barbells, like the extremes of like, how could I create just good routines of like, I found if I just stopped buying candy and I stopped buying the root beers and stuff I got. I felt myself not consuming them. He looked like, "How can I require less willpower to just actually get myself to move, to stop eating garbage, and to genuinely get enough sleep where I don't feel like garbage in the morning?" Right? How can I do those routines? And then the other side of like, "What are the most advanced things? What are the scientific breakthroughs that when you add it to those three things, make it even better?" That's kind of how I think about it. What are the exercises to improve? So I do this mini series on the podcast with Dr. Greg Bailey, he's a very, very famous biotech investor in longevity. A bit of a sense, right? Yeah, do the lessons. And I was staying with him over in Spain this summer and he just made a comment about exercise and how important it is, like if possible to like just not sit in your chair for more than 20 minutes at a time. Yeah. And I was like, "Oh, I mean, I try to get out on like a walk once a day when I'm like feeling groggy, but like, I'm not doing that. So I wanted an Amazon and for people who aren't watching this on video, this is just a little of one of those like, glass sand timers for 20 minutes. And I've just been setting it on my desk. And every time that it runs out of sand, if I'm not on a podcast or I'm not in a call with me, I just get up." And so like, what I've been trying, I'm kind of new to this, but what I've been doing is like alternating days. So like, I'll get up and do sets of pushups. And the next day I'll do just air squats. The next day I'll do sit-ups. And then it's like, you know, by the end of the day, what I've like done as many pushups as I can do that day, I'll just switch to jumping jacks till my heart rates up. And so I don't even necessarily stop what I'm doing per se, like I still got my headphones in, listening to whatever audio book I'm on or still thinking about what I'm gonna do. But I just literally just stand over my office and just crank out as many pushups as I can and then sit back down and get to work. And what I'm finding is at the end of my day, I'm just not so worn out. I'm like happier when I'm home with my kids and we're having family dinner and it's time for bed. And I, I don't know, I'm finding it like a little bit addictive because I just genuinely feel better. So I know I need to do more exercise than this, but this is kind of my like, building it back into my routine instead of being so busy. I, you know, I'm really into back country snowmobile snowboarding or surfing and dirt biking and like action sports stuff, but that's, you know, on a Saturday, you know, that's not a daily routine. So I'm working up to having a better daily routine of movement. - I'm like, you should. - Simple things. - Take you a very, very long way. - Thank you. Thank you. Well, it's amazing how simply it can be. All this wall thinks that you're doing good at the day at the time. Simple, you know, you have some good thing out of the ordinary, you know. Is your gonna stay on take your long way? - Yes. - It's amazing. - Well, I don't know, you know, this little glass thing, this little sand timer cost me out a 12 bucks on Amazon or something. But because like physically sitting on my desk, I can't help but see it. And it's like, oh, it's time to do that again. And I have better days and worse days. But like this idea of like it's just like literally sitting on my desk underneath my computer, you know, in front of my keyboard, underneath my computer screen, like I can't help but see it. And so it's definitely, I'm definitely not doing it every 20 minutes through the day. But it's getting me to do it way more times than I would have if I was supposed to remember to do it. So. - Wonderful. Wonderful. - Well, this is super fun to get to know you. Thanks for making the time. Congratulations on the success. And I'm going to talk to some of my coffee connoisseur friends and say, hey, I've been having coffee that was on a tree 72 hours earlier. So. - I think it's a bit of a revolution. You know, I think it's a bit of changing the status quo of coffee. I think we come with a very interesting tool. So you know, changing it a little bit things. I value what's, well, that is what makes me happy. You know, being able to come up with a great offer, you know, for people who have a passion for coffee, for people who love coffee and hopefully there's gonna be a lot of people in the US and the US market, those that are going to enjoy our great product. - Yeah, we're great. Let's give everybody the website one more time. - Right. www.cafegavi.com. - Cafe Gavi is C-A-F-E-E-A-V-I. CafeGavi.com. - That's great. Well, thanks again for doing this. - Oh, just thank you very much. It was a pleasure. We're waiting for you here in Colombia, you know? I'm just, I'm going to work. You have already a lot of Colombian friends so you have to come over, you know? - Yeah. - Hope to see you soon on. - Thank you very much. - You bet. Okay, bye everyone. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)