Speaker 1Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast, the bucket-emptying episodes. I'm your host, Dr Mary Han, psychologist and parenting expert. So, pour yourself a cup up, find yourself a seat and enjoy the conversation. Now today's bucket-emptying episode I don't think could be about anything that would empty our buckets more than this notion about how do we help our children to become more courageous? Because I think actually if our children were more courageous, we would feel less stressed about, you know, them embarking on new opportunities as and when they arise. And so I am joined today, unusually for the bucket-emptying episodes, doesn't usually happen, but Abel Bright, who I met at the Independent School Show, was so phenomenal to speak to, I knew I needed to get her onto the podcast. So, hello. Hello, Abel. Hello. Lovely to be on your podcast. Oh my goodness me, I'm so pleased to have you here. Now, if you are not having any access to this visual content, you won't necessarily be able to see that behind Abel in her studio are some of her incredible books. So, I guess let's just start with what do you do and how did you get to doing what you do?
Speaker 2Oh, that's a good question. So, I'm an author and a musician, and I write stories for children as well as adults. And I produce, I'm a rapper, singer, songwriter. So, I perform and do music. How did I start doing what I've always known I wanted to be a storyteller? I've always enjoyed the art of telling stories and being able to start conversations with other people. And I realized that the giftings that I have are in being able to write, being able to perform, being able to sing. And yeah, so I kind of formed the two. Together and decided to present it to the world. Oh my goodness me, she's being very modest.
Speaker 1I'm just telling you now because I've seen these books. So, what's particularly pertinent to what we're going to be talking about, I think from a lot of parents that I speak to really struggle to find ways to encourage and promote their children to try new things. It's that whole kind of notion, you know, Susan Jeffers, feel the fear and do it anyway. And you've done that in these incredible, amazing stories. So, tell us a little bit about how that came about. And I know that you use these with your children particularly.
Speaker 2I do. So, the first book is called Fly, Chico, Fly. And it's about a little eaglet, Chico, who's afraid of flying but needs to fly because he has to leave the nest. And the second book is called Shake, Ben, Shake. And it's about a bear who's so excited for some delicious fish. But on his way to the stream, he, he's met with so many obstacles. And he has to learn to have a good attitude and persevere until he gets the fish that he wants. It started because when I was about to have kids, I wanted to have fun stories that I could tell them that would help me instill in them the character traits they need to survive as adults. And I thought, what better way than some fun characters that we can talk about and use within everyday life? I mean, I must say that it's very important as parents that we model to our children. And I think that's a very important thing. The kind of, you know, character traits and attributes that we want to see in them. But also having stories that you can read at bedtime in the car and just talk about and say, remember, Chico did that. How do you feel? Or what did Ben say? Shake it off. Or just stuff like this so fun and that you can just bring back all the time. And that helps the kids, you know, to build resilience and to try new things and, and to take things gradually and to celebrate the little wins and to know that it's okay to fail. It's just a learning curve. And there's so many lessons that they can learn. But the key is learning through fun and through everyday life and normalizing that for them. So it becomes a part of their mindset.
Speaker 1And it is kind of a crucial thing, I think, that you've touched on there about this idea about normalizing, you know, that actually feeling fearful, feeling scared, feeling that something is a bit overwhelming, isn't something that is abnormal. It's perfectly normal, isn't it?
Speaker 2It is a normal emotion. I think normalizing that fear is a normal emotion, it warns us of danger, but it also lets us know that there's a challenge ahead. So how do we use that if we saw fire, and we thought, oh, we wouldn't put our hands in there. So it's warned us of the danger. But when it's a challenge that we need to overcome, it's flipping that so that the child knows, actually, I'm equal to this challenge and bigger than this challenge. And I can overcome the challenge and not let it cripple me. I love that.
Speaker 1And how do you? Manage because there'll be I'm telling you, there'll be there'll be parents listening to this all over the world that will be saying, Oh, my, that is exactly what I need for my child to do. But how do we do that? Because I guess you created these books, and your children grew up, I guess, seeing you modeling that process of your own fear, I'm guessing, as you were writing the books. Yes. Oh,
Speaker 2I've always included them and involved them in things. Everything should be age appropriate. But I think in terms of normalizing things, when children see you, like I would read my stories to my kids in proofreading, and I would see what sticks and what they model and what I hear them talk about the next day. You can do this. I'm like, yes, they got the message or you know, little bits of their first you must begin. It's like, oh, I was like, well, if you want to get it done. First, you must begin just like Chico. So it's just little things like that. I'm having that conversation with children. I think if you can get empowering books like fly, Chico fly, there's so many books that are great. You can have discussions, you can pause and say, what do you think about that? And relate that to their not their everyday life? How was school? Who did you play with? What did you enjoy? What made you feel uncomfortable, you start having these conversations, and then you start to and you share about your day and how you've overcome things as well. So I think being able to have conversations is so key. And that's one of the things I hope with my books is that it will stir up conversations that parents can carry on. I think there are so many other things we could do, even just gradually introducing kids to things, allowing kids to try new things, take them to the park, explore outdoors, you know, see them climb stuff, you know, play in the play park and see how they navigate and encourage them. You can do that. Or you I know why what made you stop there? Talk to me about the fear. Don't say, oh, you can do it. You know, and push the fear away. So that's something that Mama Eagle did. She was like, what are your fears? Let's talk about it. So Chico, for example, was like, I'm afraid of falling. And it's like, oh, I get that. But guess what? You are an eagle and eagles are made to fly. So you remind your children who they are. And you continue to affirm them to celebrate them. You listen when they make mistakes. It's okay. I think as parents, we need to be more patient as well. And say, and just recognize that that's okay. They're on a journey. It's the first time they're doing this. And just as well as the first time we're being parents to that particular child. I think it's taking the step to do that gradually. Talk to them about, you know, different things like look, electricity, someone made that it took them this number of tries. That's a lot of tries, you know, just little everyday things to encourage children. So they can see, oh, this is normal. This is a normal emotion. How about we breathe in and out? How about we imagine ourselves being successful or ourselves, you know, playing with that person or asking a question in class when nobody else's hand is up, you know, just little things like that to normalize it for them and just encourage them.
Speaker 1Yeah. I love that. And I love the way that you use the stories, create that discussion point. But also you've obviously within those stories created little mini phrases or what I often call little mantras that you can, either the mini phrases that you can ask the question. So, you know, what is it that you're afraid of? Chico is like, is falling. And then the way that we can affirm that rather than it being this dismissive, oh, you'll be fine. Come on. Just, just, you know, you'll be fine. Just give it a go instead of, ah, right. Yeah, of course. I can really see why that might feel really scary, but eagles are meant to fly or children, you know, we're meant to try different things. We're not meant to get. Things right the first time. And as you say, I mean, is it about also using our children's inherent interests to then tell them stories about things that then remind them of, you know, this idea that, you know, what was it, Edison with a light bulb? I didn't fail. I just found however many ways that a light bulb doesn't work.
Speaker 2Exactly. I definitely think so. I think this is where being attentive to your child. So you'll notice that every child has a different personality. I mean, for example, in fly Chico fly, his brothers were flying and one of his brother came and said, you know, Chico, you can do this. You, you said, you know, you will try yesterday and the week before and the, you know, and the mother said, shh, Nico, off you go. But Nico was able to get it right away, but Chico wasn't. So her, the way that she spoke and approached Chico to his flying experience was different from the way that she approached Nico's. So as parents being attentive to your child's natural bend, some children like to be spoken to, but they don't like to be spoken to. Some children, it might be a different tactic to work with them. And then also, reminding them of things that they succeeded in remember if they're creative remember when you drew that or remember when you stood up and spoke or you stood up and sang or remember when you were learning to ride a bike so remind them of the things where they have succeeded that at some point they weren't able to do so then you use that as pickup points so for example in the book mama eagle is an incredible um bird at flying but she told her story to her child and chico was like oh my god like you're the most incredible at flying but she was like yes but at one point i wasn't so being relatable and taking children through your experiences and experiences that they've overcome that helps them think like oh i did that before so i can do this and apply it to this um so yeah i think that's quite important and that is such
Speaker 1an important thing because actually i think what children there's a couple of things particularly that you've picked up on particularly in that story with chico is about this idea of that the biggest comparison that children have is with their siblings and what tends to happen if you've got a child that's not feeling particularly courageous about a particular thing that they've become fixated on is that they notice that their sibling in their mind whether it's true or whether it isn't true perceptively seems to be so at ease oh well they always make friends easily or they can always do riding a bicycle and what they fail to do is recognize the strengths that they have that their sibling doesn't have necessarily or that the areas that they particularly excel in or that they really enjoy so i think that's a really lovely reminder that story particularly because it picks up on so many of the subtle nuances around how a child places a value on themselves and their own self-belief and their own self-worth from these various different frames of reference so i love it i love that so good how tell me a bit about your experience with children but how old are your children
Speaker 2uh so one turned six on the 21st actually so just two days ago and the other seven yeah okay so they are absolutely
Speaker 1at the age where some of that limiting those limiting beliefs can start to really creep in they can creep in much younger but around that age they're really beginning to kind of compare themselves not only to their parents but to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers and to their peers do you find snippets from the book coming out every now and again or are you able just to remind them about them it's
Speaker 2a mix of both so funny enough sometimes they will use that they would say the the the snippets from the books that helped them and i'll say wow that's really good so that's that means it's embedded in their minds and they're able to apply that to real life and then at other times i will be the one to remind them about not comparing yourself to other people and it's just little things like um mama eagle would always say you are this so for example chica was afraid of storms and she said your wings are made not just to fly but to soar and she talks about the vision of eagles and how they can see you know and the winds of the storm actually helps them so the winds the storm which is what is scary can actually propel eagles is actually an advantage to eagles because of who they are so i use that with my kids and i say who are you so i'll always tell them you are the you know you are naraya of the brightest family and i would always say that all the time so she would say she's naraya brights but she's like i'm naraya bright from the brightest family i'm like remember who you are and let's use that so don't compare yourself to other people and we'll use everyday you know examples like i started driving at this age your daddy started driving at that age but it's okay because we're driving and it's an individual thing and it's an individual thing journey so it's what children is just reminding them of that and using everyday things like look at your you chose your outfit look how beautiful it is but it's unique to you now look at your sister's outfit it's very different but it's unique to her and it's equally beautiful so using little things and everyday things um to talk to children and remind them you know of who they are and to encourage them and also let them know not to compare so i'll say like look at the together it's beautiful the red is not trying to be yellow and the blue is not trying to be green it's just being itself but guess what it's just beautiful
Speaker 1oh my god i love that what and it is just simply about affirming what makes them unique so you're not getting into i think sometimes when parents have got children that are really struggling with their self-belief and they're struggling with their confidence or pushing themselves out of their comfort zone we get so caught up in trying to encourage them about that particular situation changing their belief system about that particular situation that we we forget that actually there's a big part about bolstering the incredibleness that makes them who they are you know independent of the situation that they're finding particularly challenging and that's exactly what you're sort of reminding your children regularly with not only with themselves but in terms of just observationally around them
Speaker 2yes i think that helps so when they feel fear the voice that's in their head now becomes the voice of what you said you're you're enough you're good you can do this that gets bigger and louder than the fears that they have so if we're constantly affirming and i think it's also important to help children with problem solving skills so like i'll say let's get some board games and let's learn i want you to learn chess why because you're learning you're thinking strategically so it's just little things like that they're simple everyday things but it's about the mindset so the tool that you use is just a tool to get the mindset that you need for them to stand when you are not there because as parents what we want is for our children to be empowered not for us to hold their hands through everything but for them to be empowered so even things like letting them giving them some autonomy in a safe way and also in an age-appropriate way but letting them be able to do that it builds some sort of boldness and courage in the child so you're just trying to get the mindset that they need to be able to stand out in the world and face life and face it head-on knowing that you know what today is a good day so that's something from shake ben shake so ben was being crippled by everything else but then he met a panda called peter so peter the panda would always say today is a good day but when you instill that so my children wake up and they say today is a good day and what that does for you is it gives you a confidence to face anything because you've already set to yourself today's a good day no matter what obstacle comes my way so it's a good day and it's a good day and it's a good day and it's a good day it's it's really more using all the different tools to build the mindset that they need so when you're not there that mindset is already there so whatever problem comes it doesn't matter what the problem is or what the challenge is the mindset can overcome it because it's already there
Speaker 1my god i had one of those like aha moments that i think is really useful to share as well to parents as you were talking about that is that i think we so often you know i talk about this quite a lot the idea is when our child is having a particular challenge we tell them to focus on the problem rather than equipping our child with the skills that they need and the examples that you've given is actually if we're looking at problem solving you know we forget that our you know maybe we do play a bit of drafts with our children or we chess or we do a jigsaw or we play monopoly or whatever it might be and we see them as discrete games specifically and often we scaffold our child because we don't let them lose and all of these other things but actually instead we can really be strategic and think you know what i'm going to do i'm going to do this i'm going to do you know what actually this game is really good at teaching my child problem solving and it's really important for me to play well so that they learn how to really up their game how to manage when they don't succeed and they fail then maybe they don't win and so it's it's really flipping everything on its head and instead of it being you know my child won't go into school without clinging on to me how do i resolve that issue instead of it being you know my child won't go we think what are the skills that i need to put in place that will help my child feel brave in a situation where their emotions feel big and that's pretty much the storyline for both of the stories
Speaker 2that you have yes that is so true i love what you said because for example when we started playing board games with our kids and we would win they would get really upset and want to cry and we can use those moments so i taught my kids i say just because you didn't win doesn't mean that you aren't inherently already a winner you're not a winner you're not a winner you're not a winner and when you fail at something it doesn't make you a failure so being able to distinguish between your being and what happened so using every little moment to be able to teach kids that so yeah that just kind of came to my mind when you said that i was like that's true we don't want to
Speaker 1handicap them and that's so helpful because it's that reminder it's that detachment isn't it and we all we're all familiar with the you're not naughty but what you chose to do was a naughty thing so we take that as a reminder and we're all familiar with the you're not naughty but what you take that detachment but actually we've got so many other opportunities in so many other areas to remind our children that because that didn't because you didn't win that game as you say it's not that doesn't make you a winner you were great you know in what you did here was really brilliant and sometimes there's an element particularly certainly with some of the the board games there's an element of luck around the rolling the dice you could and actually that's a really great life lesson because sometimes you can practice the game and you can practice the game as much as you want with an instrument and a particular activity and sometimes it just you just don't get selected and that's not a failure on you you gave it your best it's just other circumstances
Speaker 2that's so true i think focusing on the process rather than just the outcome is so important because when we get into life you might apply for a job and you may not get the job but you prepared and we did everything you could but you have to be able to take that no and believe that you know something better will come and just keep going you know rather than that being completely shutting you down so i think for me i really wanted to write books that people for children that are really young because i want to get them young and try and make that as normal as possible as fun as possible but they're actually
Speaker 1learning something yeah but now we will be sharing all the links to the book so that if you want to purchase some you can go ahead and and do that in terms of age range it's specifically that you've taught you that you've sort of learned about the book and you've learned about the book and you've sort of targeted these these four i know they're incredibly colorful but for me they feel like that they could cover quite a reasonable age range was there a particular sweet spot in terms of what you thought when you wrote them or they're just for everyone
Speaker 2the themes are very universal so when parents read them they get something out of it themselves which is something i really wanted um but obviously when you put out books you have to kind of select an age range so i've gone with three to eight but you can read the books even to a two-year-old and they can just enjoy the colors for now and you you never know what sticks even in their little minds um and even if a child is older than age the the theme is still important so you can still read that to the child but the main age range is three to eight eight
Speaker 1amazing i still feel that actually to be honest with you you could still be using it with children in primary school i think true i think right the way through abel thank you so so much that's just been unbelievably helpful and i hopefully for all of you who are watching this video i hope that you all of you that have been listening from that real bucket emptying because it's this is such a big thing and yet actually we've broken it down into some really bite-sized easy whether you get the books or whether you don't get the books it's about conversations really and those instilling those little tiny little mantras that our children when they're younger can then are so easy to consume and to to use and that we know our brain responds to what we tell it and if we're not having all of these positive affirmations and mindsets cultivated around process then we know our children will be truly courageous like chico and beth thank you so
Speaker 2much abel thank you so much for having me it's been a wonderful time conversing with you
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