Bryan Kohberger changes his mind. Son wants mother's killer back in court. Plus, Missing in America.

Good morning, everybody. It's the start of another workday for the Dateline team. So this story is developing. It's right outside of Dallas. Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. I am very curious about the motive. He has real doubts about it himself. They check her safe, and that gun is gone. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Andrea Canning. It's July 30th, and here's what's on our docket. In Kansas, a former Marine was convicted at trial of stalking his estranged wife and then strangling her. Now, her son wants to put him on trial again. The son has pointed out that Brian was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace. In Dateline Roundup, a judge weighs in on the prosecution's case against TikTok singer David. And emotions run high at the trial of the former labor and delivery nurse accused of raping his wife. She's accused of murdering her three children as her ex-husband takes the stand. You could see how emotional it was for him. You know, he seemed to have trouble breathing at times. Plus, Josh Mankiewicz will be here with a preview of his latest season of Missing in America and why you should listen. If somebody hears this, thinks that maybe I know something about this, it could make all the difference. But before all that, we're heading to Idaho for a stunning development in the quadruple murder case that gripped and terrified the nation. It has been a little over a year since Brian Koberger stood before a judge and pleaded guilty to the murders of four University of Idaho students. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kernodel. Did you, on November 13th, 2022, enter the residence at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho with the intent to commit the felony crime of murder? Yes. In return for his plea, the prosecutor agreed, to drop the death penalty. And Koberger was sentenced to serve four consecutive life sentences at a maximum security prison just outside of Boise. The judge had these final words for him. The time has now come to end Mr. Koberger's 15 minutes of fame. It's time that he be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration. Now, it appears Koberger has changed his mind. This week, he filed a petition with the court asking, essentially, for a do-over. He says he was coerced into the guilty plea, that he is innocent, and he wants a trial. Here to help us understand what this could mean for the case and the families is Dateline producer Shane Bishop, who has covered this story from the beginning. Welcome back to the podcast, Shane. You bet. Hi, Andrea. Hey, Shane, before we get into what Koberger is claiming in this petition, let's rewind the clock. What evidence, Shane, did investigators say they had to zero in on Koberger? Well, the key piece of evidence was a drop of blood found on a knife sheath that detected Koberger. Detectives said the killer left near the body of Madison Mogan. Analysts then used DNA and genetic genealogy to link Koberger to the knife sheath. And a search of Koberger's computer record showed that he'd purchased a K-bar knife and a sheath just months before the murders. Koberger pleaded guilty just a few weeks before trial. The victim's families had mixed feelings about that. We heard some emotional testimony at his sentencing. Let's take a listen. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human. A body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction. He chose evil. He feels nothing. You'll sit with it long after this is over. That is your sentence. And it was written on the wall long before you ever pled guilty. You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. Then, fast forward a year, here comes this petition. How much of a surprise was this to you, Shane? Well, I think it came as a complete shock. It certainly did to me, although in my experience, it's hardly uncommon for convicted killers to arrive at a state prison to serve their life sentences and before long realize that forever is a long time, especially in a situation like Koberger finds himself in because he's in protective custody because of his notoriety and he's locked down 23 hours a day. Yeah, I didn't even realize he was in protective custody. Shane, walk us through this petition that he filed. I think Koberger's most startling claims have to be that he is actually innocent and that he was pressured by his, his defense attorneys to falsely confess to these murders. Koberger writes in his petition that his counsel told what he calls elaborate lies to him about life on death row and promised him that a life sentence would mean a number of things, including immediate contact visits, freedom of movement inside the prison, and employment. None of those are allowed when you're in the restrictive housing or protective custody like he is now. And the last thing Koberger claims is that his attorneys failed to disclose what he calls exculpatory evidence, so just to be clear, Shane, exculpatory means evidence that Koberger is saying could prove his innocence. Does he go into detail about what this evidence is that he's talking about? He does. He mentions in his petition that his attorneys didn't tell him about, quote, clumps of unknown hair found in Ethan Chapin's hands, end quote. Okay, so we really first heard about this hair from a book written by a former FBI agent who didn't work on this case. It's called Broken Plea. Shane, break it all down for us. The author says he interviewed a defense expert named Brent Turvey who believes that this hair Koberger's referring to, and I should be clear, this hair has been variously described as a clump, a wisp, a strand, or even just as debris found in Ethan's hands. Turvey claims that this is all proof that more than one killer was involved. When the book came out, Koberger's former defense team pushed back, telling the Idaho statesman that Turvey was speaking on topics outside of his area of expertise. We know from other cases, Shane, that we've covered that it takes a lot to undo a guilty plea like this. It's extremely rare, right? Almost unheard of. Yeah, Andrea, Idaho Criminal Rule 33C says that once a person is convicted, a petitioner has to prove a manifest injustice occurred to set aside a plea after sentencing. Maybe the plea wasn't voluntary. Maybe it wasn't entered into knowingly or intelligently. Or the petitioner can claim there was inadequate representation. Seems like Koberger has maybe been reading some law books in prison. Does he mention ineffective assistance of counsel at all in this petition that he wasn't represented properly, which seems to be the crux of this, right? Yeah, that's exactly what he argued. But one veteran Idaho defense lawyer I spoke to believes it's going to be tough sledding for him. Lead attorney Ann Taylor and her team filed dozens and dozens of motions on Koberger's behalf, and that defense attorney, told me, quote, they pulled out all the stops. They did everything that could have been done on Koberger's behalf. We should say we've reached out to Koberger's former defense attorney, Ann Taylor, to see what she thinks of all this. And at the time we're taping this, she has not responded. So, Shane, what is next for Koberger now that he has filed this? The original judge who took the plea, Stephen Hippler, will look at this post-conviction petition. He'll decide, yes, Brian Koberger will have an evidentiary hearing, or no, he won't. If the judge says, no, he won't, he won't. If the judge says, no, Koberger can then take it to Idaho's Supreme Court. But it seems like any answer on this is months or more likely years away. How have the families reacted to all of this now? You know, finally they were getting some peace. He pled guilty. And now it's all being brought up again. Haley Gonsalves' family is the only one to put out a statement, and their statement read in part, quote, We would have preferred a death penalty trial. We believe fully in the evidence. Instead, Brian Koberger received exactly what he asked for, a deal that spared his life. Know this, he hates that life. He wants another chance to roll the dice. I would imagine if Koberger did somehow manage to get a new trial, that they would go for the death penalty, given that he's reneging on this deal or trying to. Maybe, maybe Kaley's family, it's what they want. They've always wanted the death penalty very badly, and I think there's no doubt the prosecution would seek it. It's such a heartbreaking case, Shane, and I know you're staying on it. You've been on it for years, so we look forward to hearing from you again about how this proceeds. Yeah, I'll stay on it. Thanks, Andrea. Coming up, a former Marine stands trial in Kansas for stalking and murdering his estranged wife. But even after his conviction, her son says it's not the end of the story. On Thanksgiving Day, 2024, Ryan Woolham planned to have lunch with his mother, Monica McKay. But when he showed up at her house, he found her dead in the bathtub. Investigators immediately suspected foul play. Three months later, they arrested Monica's estranged husband, Brian McKay, accusing him of beating her and then drowning her. Brian maintained his innocence, and his defense argued investigators pinned her death on the record. But after a nine-day trial, a jury convicted him. Last week, Brian walked into the Shawnee County Courthouse in Kansas for sentencing and came face-to-face with Monica's sons. It turns out they are not done pursuing justice for their mom. Dateline producer Keith Greenberg was in the courtroom and is here now to bring us up to speed. Keith, thanks for being here. Thank you, Andrea. I'm always happy to be here. Keith, let's start with some background on this couple, Brian and Monica. McKay. What was their story? Monica McKay's Started out as a nurse, then she worked her way up to becoming a hospital administrator. Brian is a Marine veteran. He served in combat in Iraq, and he also has a master's degree in electrical engineering. They were married in 2009. They had a blended family. She had two sons. He had a daughter. But there were always kind of hiccups in the marriage, and they divorced at one point. Then they reconciled and remarried. And at the time of the murder, they were in the midst of another divorce. Okay, so this time she was done with him. She wanted a divorce, and they were no longer living together. And, Keith, it was Monica's son, Ryan, who found her body. What did investigators think when they arrived at the scene? So investigators come by, and there she is in a half-filled bathtub. And although there's no— Visible signs of a struggle in the house, there are some signs of abrasions on her. The other thing that Ryan was quick to point out was that his mother didn't even use that bathtub. So, Keith, investigators, of course, wanted to talk to her estranged husband, Brian. What did he tell them? Yes, you know, after Brian moved out, he had purchased a new property, and he was clearing away brush, you know, trying to make this property. into a place to live. And that's what he said he was doing part of that day. And he said he hadn't seen Monica or had any dealings with her since she filed a restraining order against him one month before she died. Tell us about that. She had a very bad feeling. As I mentioned, Brian has a master's in electrical engineering. He's technically very savvy. And she had the distinct impression that he was spying on her. According to the arrest affidavit, there was one instance where she was talking with a friend on the phone. And Brian texted Monica and was repeating some of the things she said. And he wrote, quote, the Alexa is in private. So he was using her Alexa to listen to her. Yeah. And Monica's son, Ryan, told detectives he found covert recording devices, cameras, microphones hidden in her home. He he believed her son believed they were hidden by Brian. And that led to this protection from stalking order. I mean, her friends and family all felt the same thing. Keith, investigators found something else that was suspicious. A red Jeep was caught on security camera footage near Monica's home with similar characteristics to Brian's car. Yes, that's that's true. So in February 2025, Brian McKay was arrested and faced several charges, including first degree murder and stalking. He pleaded not guilty and headed to trial in May of this year. You spoke, Keith, to the district attorney, Michael Kage. What did he suggest was Brian's motive? He said he wanted money. He wasn't doing too well financially. But he, you know, he stood to profit quite a bit from accidental death insurance. And so he tried to create the guise of an accident. What is what what is the defense's argument against all of these allegations? Well, interestingly, Monica was starting to date again. She had met a guy named Eric Lessig. And Monica and Eric went on their first date 12 days before Monica was murdered. And almost immediately she gave him a key to her home. And so, you know, the defense's contention was if you investigate a case, you find out that there might have been some things going on involving Monica McKay that didn't involve her husband. Yeah, I spoke with the D.A. and he emphasized to me that law enforcement did its due diligence. They looked at every possibility. And once again, it always came back to Brian. The defense also argued that the timeline didn't add up when we're talking about that red Jeep that the prosecution believed was Brian showing up at Monica's house. Yes, a defense goes, hey, you look at the time. The red Jeep was there. Nobody could have committed this type of elaborate murder in such a short period of time. The jury, Keith, was not convinced. Brian was found guilty. And that brings us to his sentencing. You were there in Kansas last week. Give us some color on what you saw in the courtroom. Her side of the courtroom was packed. They were just workers, friends, family members. She was very, very well liked. And, you know, the sons, spoke. Tyler, the older son, he mentioned his mother was a nurse. And he said, not only did she save countless lives, she brought life into the world. There was this feeling like the world truly was robbed of someone who was giving to it and not taking from it. The judge really threw the book at Brian. So the defense asked for 25 to life. And they spoke about his military service and how he had never been killed. He said, I've been in trouble before. But it didn't matter. The judge sent 50 to life. And it's highly unlikely that he'll ever, you know, see a day of freedom. Yeah. And Brian is not done. He is facing another legal battle. Monica's son, Ryan, has filed a wrongful death suit against him. I went to a hearing in the wrongful death case. And the judge made it clear. A jury of his peers found him guilty of murdering Monica. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is how much the family is entitled to. Ryan Wallum, the son, has pointed out that in those weeks where Brian was stalking Monica and not giving her a moment of peace, he feels that should be taken into consideration. It will be a bench trial with a judge. And it will be like a real trial with witnesses. And so he's going through this again. When is this trial set to get underway? The trial is set to begin on September 23rd. Keith, thank you so much for bringing us this case. And we'll keep an eye out for this civil trial set to begin. Great. Thank you. Up next, it's time for Dateline Roundup. More details from the prosecution's case against accused murderer and TikTok star Singer David and Lindsay Clancy's ex-husband, testifies about her behavior in the days and hours before she killed their three children. Plus, Josh Mankiewicz on the haunting disappearance of a young woman from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana. Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Roundup is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Sue, good to see you. Thanks for having me. First off, Massachusetts, where the trial of 35-year-old Lindsay Clancy is underway. Prosecutors allege Clancy, a former labor and delivery nurse, murdered her three young children and then jumped out of a second-story window. Her defense says she was suffering from some kind of psychotic break. And Lindsay has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. On Monday, we heard opening statements. Sue, tell us what we learned from the prosecution through their opening statement. Well, Andrea, the prosecutor, Jennifer Sprague, asked the jury to focus on Lindsay and what she did. She said that Lindsay had been interacting normally with other people in the hours before the murders. The prosecutor was trying to undercut the idea that Lindsay was somehow mentally unstable. This was a woman who acted intentionally, rationally, and swiftly to accomplish a very specific goal, to kill. Sue, this has to be tricky for the prosecution because so many people are aware, now, of postpartum depression, and we've seen a lot of cases that end tragically this way. Did the prosecution offer up an alleged motive for the murders? Well, prosecutors said Lindsay didn't like her life and that she wanted to escape by killing herself, and that meant taking the kids with her. What did Lindsay's defense attorney have to say in his opening statements? Kevin Reddington started by describing Lindsay as a doting mother, someone who adored her children. He described Lindsay's growing struggles with her mental health and her determined, but futile, efforts to get help. He indicated that she was over-medicated, and he said it drove her into psychosis. And he didn't hide his scorn for the prosecution's alleged motive. This is not a righteous prosecution. They're looking for every single piece of evidence that they can to show some ridiculous concept that she wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she had a baby. She wanted to kill her beautiful kids because she had a baby. She didn't want to be a mother anymore. So one of the elements of this case that has captured a lot of attention as well is that Lindsay's ex-husband, Patrick Clancy, is standing by her and is telling people, you know, not to judge her. We got to hear from him. We heard initially he was going to be a defense witness, but here he was for the prosecution. What did the prosecution want the jury to hear from him on this first day of the trial? thing, Andrea, that they wanted from him was to hear his description of his children. And you could see how emotional it was for him. Cora was into princesses. And she had a lot of friends. What kind of things was Dawson interested in? He was into firefighters and trucks. Alan? He was just a happy baby. That pain and that grief really brought home to the jury what was lost that day. The prosecution also focused on Lindsay's behavior leading up to the murders. They asked Patrick to remember some fun family outings, you know, going to a water park, going to the beach. And it all sounded so normal, not what you might expect from somebody, you know, suffering such a mental health crisis. And the prosecutor showed Patrick a bag of Lindsay's pill bottles and got Patrick to admit that he didn't know if Lindsay even took all the drugs she'd been prescribed. This has to be so hard for this man. My God. My goodness. And we should say that Patrick was very clear that Lindsay had been struggling. And he pushed back on the prosecutor at times. Lindsay switched providers. Yes. And why did she do that? Because whatever she was doing, it wasn't working. She was just, she was only getting worse. He testified that Lindsay seemed desperate and that she wasn't sleeping. And she was talking about suicide. And at one point, she even talked about harming the kids. But he testified Lindsay seemed better right before the killings. Who else can we expect to testify at this point? The prosecution and defense both said that they would be calling several expert witnesses. Also, the defense has said we're going to hear from a hospital worker who was in the room when Lindsay woke up from her coma and heard her first words. Okay. We will stay on top of that story as this trial continues. Next up, news out of California in the case of singer David, who was famous on TikTok, his legal name, David Anthony Burke. He is accused of killing 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Her remains were found in the trunk of David's Tesla last September. David has pleaded not guilty to all the charges against him, including sexual abuse of a minor and mutilation of human remains. He has been in court in downtown Los Angeles for a preliminary hearing that we just heard. We talked about on the podcast last week. Sue, what is the latest this week? Yeah, the hearing went into this Monday as prosecutors continued to call witnesses. As you mentioned, one of the charges against David is sexual abuse of a minor. They showed some text exchanges between David and Celeste, referencing Celeste having at least one abortion during their alleged relationship. And at the time, Celeste was 13. David was 19. Sue, there were also some. There were some text messages from around the time prosecutors alleged David killed Celeste. Right, Andrea. In the preliminary hearing, a detective presented text from April 22nd, 2025. Celeste appeared to be confronting David about his interactions with another girl, and she texted him, I will end your career. The next day, April 23rd, is when prosecutors say David lured Celeste to his house and killed her. How did David's defense handle that? David's defense made it clear that Celeste had sent other threatening texts to him during their relationship, even saying at one point that she would, quote, mutilate him. They were implying that that's just the way she talked to David. The hearing wrapped up on Monday afternoon. What did the judge decide as to going forward with all of this? The judge ruled that the prosecution had presented enough evidence to send this case to trial. There's no date yet, but. David's next court appearance is scheduled for August 31st. Okay, so we will follow that as we get closer to David's first-degree murder trial. Sue, thank you for these updates. Thank you, Andrea. For our final story this week, we have a very special guest, my friend and colleague, Josh Mankiewicz. He is here to tell us about a case he's been working on for the latest season of our podcast series, Dateline Missing in America. The 2017. The 2017 disappearance of Ashley Loring Heavy Runner. Ashley was 20 years old and pregnant when she went missing from the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana. Since then, her sister Kimberly has been a driving force in the search for her. Josh recently sat down with Kimberly. I can look at her picture and feel totally broken. It feels like it just happened. I continuously think of my sister every day. Her disappearance didn't just change her life. It changed yours, too, in a huge way. Oh, yes. Yes, completely. We're doing six episodes a season. So if this is the fifth season, then we've done, what, 30, right? 30 missing persons cases. I mean, we could do 3,000, and we still wouldn't be scratching the surface of the problem of missing people in this country. And that's why we're doing it, is because this is like chipping away at the sort of rock of Gibraltar that is all these missing cases. But the one thing they have in common is that these families are desperate for answers. And so this series is just. Trying to bring some answers to people. Because if somebody hears this, thinks that maybe I know something about this, or maybe I know somebody who knows something about this, it could make all the difference. Yes. And we definitely want people to say something if they do know something. Ashley's sister Kimberly told you she immediately suspected foul play with Ashley's disappearance. Why did she think that? First of all, they were very close. Kimberly had come back from a trip overseas and was expecting to get together with her sister and didn't hear from her. Sort of all the things that normally happen. In a lot of missing persons cases, which is the people you love don't hear from you. They get worried and they go to police. Yeah. And Kimberly says law enforcement stopped searching a few days after the family reported Ashley missing. They say the case stalled. And like so many family members in our Dateline stories, Josh, Kimberly kept the search going. She totally did. And this, you know, sadly, this cuts across all lines. I mean, there is almost no one I know who has a missing family member who believes that the police are working hard enough on that case. And I understand why that is. And sometimes police are working hard, but they don't appear to be, or they don't talk to the family about that. In this case, Kimberly had learned a couple of things about her sister that weren't known to a lot of people. One is that she had begun a relationship with a much older man. Man was almost twice as old as she was. And the other thing was that Ashley had become pregnant, not by that guy, by somebody else. And those were two investigative avenues that she was sort of urging law enforcement to go down. And they did, although not as quickly as Kimberly wanted. I know you and your team reached out to a number of agencies to see where the investigation stands today. It's been nearly 10 years, but you didn't get a whole lot of answers, right? No, I mean, a lot of them gave us an answer that we hear in a lot of Dateline stories, which is we cannot respond to questions about what is an open investigation because we're still working on this. You know, that generalization, generally tends to make families feel as if they're being put off. But, you know, Blackfeet Tribal Police, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the FBI, none of them wanted to talk with us. The FBI gave us a very long statement about how they take missing person cases very seriously. All of that is included in this segment of the podcast. Well, and we know the FBI is notoriously tight-lipped on all cases before they're resolved. I did a story several years ago called The Secrets of Spirit Lake about the murder, of a young woman. Her name was Carly Yellowbird. It was her aunt, Lissa Yellowbird Chase, that broke the case wide open, or at least helped break the case open. She has been a real advocate, pushing this as much as she can, missing and murdered Indigenous women with the federal government. And I know that Ashley's sister, Kimberly, has done the same. She testified at a U.S. Senate hearing in 2018 to address the crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous women. Josh, what came out of Kimberly's advocacy? One of the things that's changed is the Bureau of Indian Affairs has a new policy for the way that missing persons reports are responded to. And there's a cold case missing persons office called the Missing and Murdered Unit. Look, advocates for the missing problem in the Indigenous community would tell you that it's better than nothing, but it's not a lot better than nothing, that much more needs to be done. And searches and investigations, need to begin sooner rather than later. And having a cold case unit is a good idea. But the best thing would be if there weren't so many cold cases. One thing I loved about this story is that Ashley's disappearance inspired her close friend, Haley Omiso, to pursue a career in forensics because of what happened to Ashley. Let's take a listen to your conversation with Haley. One main thing that I see is lack of evidence. Trying to get justice for your family member, but there's no. No evidence there. Tribal law enforcement doesn't have their own testing. system. They don't have their own crime labs. Talking with Dr. Haley Amiso was very impressive because she knew Ashley, I think, from high school. I think they had competed against each other on different sports teams. And she wants a crime lab that sort of just works in the Native American space and therefore wouldn't have to share resources with all the other cases everywhere else. Because as you know, the numbers of Native American missing cases related to the number of Native Americans is just a stunning percentage. So having like a dedicated crime lab and much more sort of on the ground forensics dealing with cases like that right away, that could end up making a huge difference. And so hats off to Dr. Haley Amiso. Josh, what else? What can we look forward to as your series rolls out? I mean, this is the second, you know, we have our first story, which is available now is that of Zelig Williams, a Broadway dancer and singer who inexplicably vanished one day. And we have other stories coming up too. One in which someone was a confidential informant for law enforcement. And the question is, did that get her killed? Oh, that sounds like an interesting one, Josh. Thank you for reporting on all of these stories. Thank you. Make sure to catch up with episode one of Dateline Missing in America, wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every Monday. And for early access and ad-free listening, subscribe to Dateline Premium. That's it for this week's episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. Coming up this Friday on Dateline, I have a brand new story for you about a case that actually started out as a Missing in America episode four years ago. The case of Michigan farmer and entrepreneur Dee Warner, who disappeared only to be found in one of the most unbelievable locations I've ever seen. This image from the x-ray was going to change everything. It changed everything. Watch The Day Dee Disappeared this Friday at 10, 9 central on NBC. Thanks for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummins, Caroline Casey and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone-Groth and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Production and fact-checking help by Yana Johnson. Veronica Mazeka is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. Bye, everyone. Thank you.