Bryan Johnson: 10 Days After DMT. (Feat. Paul Saladino - Vault) #687

Brian Johnson, the man who won't die, took the drug that simulates dying. And now, 10 days on, it's been telling us what happened and the results are amazing. Also today, gene editing that could make your bones 8 times stronger. I want that. This is Biohacking News. Hello and welcome to Biohacking News. Tony Rice in here. Let's start with Brian Johnson. Then he's 10 days post 5MEO-DMT. It's difficult to say. The aftermath is wild. We'll talk about that in a sec. But it includes heightened sex drive, sleeping more than ever, vivid dreams, and a growing sense that normal life is completely insane. He's also more Brian Johnson news, because there's a lot of it on this podcast. He's also been posting his full hair loss, reversal protocol. I can help you mate. Just get yourself a bit of Portuguese sunshine. Bit of the fresh air out here. That'll help you. I've just had my barnet being cut at the hairdresser's today. It grows like anything out here. I don't know what it is. Is it the tap water? Well, the burky filter tap water. Gene editing that could make your bones 8 times stronger is no longer science fiction. But it's still sort of science fiction, but we're going to look at that. And Biohack has world just wrapped up its biggest to ever event in LA. And we're going to go into the vault today for a classic conversation that I had a few years ago with Paul Saladino. I thought it'd be interesting, because it was on the Carnival Diet. Recorded when he was its biggest evangelist. And that makes it a fascinating listen, knowing that he pivoted since. Knowing what he thinks now. Right, so let's start with Brian Johnson, who took the world's most powerful psychedelic live on camera for science. He took a mega dose of five MEODMT live on X. And it's widely considered the most powerful psychedelic on Earth. You know this already, because it was about 10 days, two weeks ago. And he took a huge dose of it. And he had some of the world's best doctors there. Spoiler alert, if you take a huge dose of it and you haven't got the world's best doctors there, it might not be quite as fun. Anyway, it's a longevity experiment. He's testing to see whether it can reverse brain aging. But I've said a few times on this podcast, I'm particularly interested in the fact that all his protocols around longevity are leading him to a place where it's actually less about control on more about letting go and enlightenment and acceptance and mind expansion. It's utterly fascinating. So the reason we're talking about it today is 10 days post at five MEODMT. This is what he says. He said, "My body can't sleep enough. I'll sleep eight hours, anemone day, hour, nap, and nine hours that night." He said his mind feels really fast. Sex drivers up by two to three times. Kid vibe excitement levels about life. Dreams are vivid, more alive than I can remember. Previous normalized, i.e. scrolling, now seems insane. Societal norms generally feel insane to me, how we trade our existence for ephemeral things. I feel more self aware and robust at handling conflict, and I feel love more deeply. Wow, I mean, who doesn't want that? So it is utterly fascinating in that what he probably thought when he embarked on his sort of longevity, don't die experiments was going to be, was going to end up being the protocol. It's almost the exact opposite. It's, let go, do nothing, go and pick stuff that, I mean, I know this is different from mushrooms that grow in the forest, but go and get stuff that grows in the forest, and open your mind a bit. And you know what, despite everything, I really like him. I really like what he's doing. I love the fact he's raising so much awareness about this. I've found it utterly fascinating. Can't say I've ever done an experiment like that myself, but I want to feel love more deeply and feel more self aware and have more vivid dreams and have my sex drive up by two or three times as well. As, you know, I mean, the mind feels really fast and all of that sort of thing. So absolutely fascinating. We're going to keep an eye on that. Another Brian Johnson story's been, he's been battling hair loss since his 20s, and there's now reversed it by about 70%. I just thought it was worth briefly mentioning he's been posting about it in the last seven days or so. And he said, what's working is red light therapy, microneedling, and a custom DNA matched topical formula including some products which are not natural. I always find this quite interesting. One of the things I've really battled with with Brian Johnson is that it's very hard to find natural sunscreens that don't make you look like a clown. And I've posted about this a few times, very hard. And here in Portugal, the sun is super hot. And I haven't got Portuguese skin and nor has the rest of my family and my son. So put quite a bit of thought into natural sunscreens. And Brian Johnson breezes, he says, yes, I use LTMD. Well, actually when you look at the ingredients of LTMD, it's not totally mineral based. It's not totally natural. It's got oxytocinate, I think. I think that's how it's pronounced. And it doesn't score very well on Yucca, although it scores slightly better on E-A-E-W-G, which are two platforms that you can check the content of sunscreen for mineral naturalness. And it's a paradox of Brian Johnson in that he's interested in longevity and he is interested in, you know, endocrine descriptors or avoiding them and mineral based solutions and natural solutions to things. And yet he uses stuff like minoxidil, dutesteride and tretenine, tretenine knowing for his hair. And he uses products like LTMD, which are not totally natural on his skin. So I think that's really interesting. On the other hand, he's launching a laser cap, as part of his blueprint hair stack, which is going to be worth about a grand, or a thousand dollars. And that is natural, that's just light. So yeah, I love to know what you think about that. That has been going on this week. And I've just bought some LTMD, which is why I've been thinking about it. And then I took to the rear of it and I was like, I don't think it's totally natural. I'm not sure that I love the young goose stuff, but it is so expensive. So there you go. Right now, what else? Oh yeah, gene editing and bone strength. Scientists have identified that switching off a gene called sclerostin, which acts as a natural break on bone formation, can massively increase bone density. People born, or what they could do by switching by switching off this gene is you could have bones up to eight times stronger than average. This isn't happening yet, but apparently this is possible. Gene editing and gene expression is on the move so, so quickly. And actually what we know about genes, what we understand about genes, I had my entire genetic pathway mapped by my functional practitioner fairly recently. And it was one of the most exciting, functional health experiences. I didn't understand how far was what was going on. But to understand, oh yeah, you got this gene, which means that pathway up there is doing this, which means when you start to methylate down here, you do this. And what you need to do is eat more of that and spend more time in the sunlight in the morning and all that sort of thing. And it all comes back to sort of functional stuff you can do, which is sort of very technically linked to genes and gene expression. And that was, and obviously the stuff around bones is absolutely insane. I'm not sure. Apparently if you do have bones that are eight times more dense than normal, you can't swim, you just sink. Joe Rogan's been discussing this. I heard him talking about it. I think it's still prehuman. Let's put it that way. But it's something in the future to keep an eye on. And finally, before we go into today's vault interview, Biohackers World has just wrapped up its biggest event yet. It was in Los Angeles, over 1,510 D's, friends of the show here, Cloudy Abalog, and Valerie or Sony were both speakers there. And I've been seeing some of their stories over the last few days very jealous because it looked great. And everything was discussed, longevity science, metabolic health, nitric oxide, epigenetics, a brand new experience all for hands on tech. This is an event now that is hitting multiple US cities. And there's lots more to come. Events season is sort of underway. The health optimization summit has got its retreat in Greece and Kofil, I think, in the next few weeks. And obviously loads of events coming up over the next few months or so. But if you went to that event, I'd love to hear from you, love to hear how it was. And just worth marking, because that was a big event on the biohacking calendar. And it's happened in the last few days. Well, look, that's your little roundup of biohacking news. I really enjoyed doing these. And every once in a while, I want to delve into the vault because I know you enjoyed it last time. I did it with Esther Paralle. And I've got all these amazing interviews. And with the benefit of time, we can look back. And it can be even more fascinating. And I knew that you would enjoy that based on what's happened since I recorded my conversation with Paul Saladino in 2019. He was carnivores loudest evangelist. And he since moved on for it, which I think makes it even more interesting. So here is Paul Saladino on biohacking news when I interviewed him in 2019. The backstory a little bit is that I'm a functional medicine doc here in the US. And I'm just finished my residency in psychiatry. So I'm formally trained as a psychiatrist. I'm a medical doctor. I'm an MD. And I'm a functional medicine practitioner meaning that the root of illness is what I'm fascinated by. and really obsessed with understanding in the best way. And, you know, from both a mental health perspective and an integrative medicine, a holistic medical perspective, I've always felt like food was one of the biggest keys to what made us healthy or diseased, what created vitality and, you know, energy and all these things in the human body and mind and spirit and what could deplete them and what could really trigger our immune system and create chronic inflammation. And so for the last 12 to 14 years, I've really been basically trying to understand how the human body is meant to eat, how humans are programmed to eat, what is written in our book of life. And I've gone through a number of iterations in that process. I did raw vegan for a number of months and lost 25 pounds and did not do well. I did raw, I did organic paleo for a number of years and felt like that was an step in the right direction, but still was not able to totally resolve all of my issues. Specifically, I had Xima, which kind of came and went. Xima is kind of an itchy skin condition. Sometimes we call it atopic dermatitis. It's often clustered with asthma in sort of an atopic cluster. And so I kept iterating and I kept thinking, you know, how am I meant to eat if I still have Xima, eating almost entirely organic paleo and I'm super strict about it. What am I missing? And in the last year or in the last couple of years, I kept taking things out of my diet. I thought, oh man, maybe I need to get rid of oxalates. Maybe I need to get rid of histamines. Maybe I need to get rid of electums. And it just kind of kept getting more and more, I think I could say refined or, you know, whittled down. And then I started thinking about animal-based diets. And I heard Jordan Peterson, on Joe Rogan. I heard Michaela Peterson on Joe Reagan. Rogan. And I liked kind of went off in my head because they were talking about reversal, resolution of chronic recalcitrant autoimmune conditions, which are really the bugaboo in Western medicine. We really don't treat autoimmune very well. And Xima is an autoimmune condition. And so, ah, this is what's going on. Like, maybe it's the fact that, and I've been kind of cutting out plants gradually over the last few years as I'm figuring out more and more plant toxins. So, I kind of started delving into this carnivore diet idea about a year ago. And so, it's been a fascinating rabbit hole for me to really explore the nuances of what I would call a nose-to-tail carnivore diet or Whole Foods animal-based eating. And when I first heard about it, like many of your listeners, I thought, that is just kooky. That's just crazy. Yeah, I know. That's what I thought. Yeah. Right, right. And then when you dig into it and you really think about it, and I've written a lot about this and talked a lot about it, and I'm writing a book right now. And the things, the idea is really start to crystallize. And what falls out of the mix is this pretty basic idea that, hey, plants don't want to get eaten, animals don't want to get eaten either, but animals can run away from you or use their horns or use their teeth. But plants are stuck in place. Plants have roots. And so, throughout our co-evolution with plants as humans or as animals or insects, you know, throughout life's evolution with plants, the co-evolution of these two kingdoms of life, animal and plant evolution for the last 450 million years, plants have figured out ways to create toxins. And there are myriad toxins and plants, which we can talk about, but there are, you know, basically every plant on the planet has some sort of toxin in various places in the plant, whether it's in the leaves or it's in the seeds. The seeds of plants are particularly full of anti-nutrients and toxic molecules. And so, I thought, wow, this kind of makes sense. Plants don't want to get eaten. They're full of things which are essentially called phytalelectins, which are defense molecules against insects, animals, humans, whatever wants to eat them or is trying to eat them, that kind of discourages that. And I thought, oh, that makes sense. But can we get all the nutrients we need from animals? And when you really look into that, the kind of amazing thing is that you can, and the more I dug into that, I was less and less surprised. It really made more and more intuitive sense. An animal looks a heck of a lot like a human from a biochemical perspective. A plant is nothing like a human from a biochemical perspective. But if you look at a ruminant animal, like a cow, or a buffalo, or a deer, or even a monogastric animal, like a pig, their biochemistry is 99.99% similar to humans. They use essentially all of the same minerals and cofactors that humans use to run their molecular engines, to run their biochemistry. So it kind of makes sense that if you're eating from the animal kingdom and you're eating the whole animal, which we can talk about, not just eating the muscle, eating the organs and like a tissue and getting some source of bones and calcium and getting some source of fat from the animal, you're going to get every single thing a human needs. And so what I've really come to believe in sort of the hypothesis, the premise of my work is that animals represent the optimal food for humans because they are the source of all the nutrients that humans need to function optimally in the most bioavailable forms because they look just like a human in terms of their biochemistry without any of the anti-nutrients found in plants. And I thought, well, doesn't that sound kind of cool? Okay, so I'm getting a list of objections forming in my head. So we're going to go through them one by one. Yeah, yeah, we should. We should. But that's the idea. And I think that, you know, I'll just add this and then I'll pause for a moment that I think that humans have probably eaten plants to some extent throughout their evolution. But I think that if you look at the nutritional quality of animals versus plants and you look at the anthropologic historical record, it's pretty clear that humans probably only ate plants during times of starvation when the animals weren't around. But that's a survival advantage for humans. So I would actually argue that instead of being omnivores, humans are probably facultative carnivores. The best nutrition we can get is from animals. We can eat plants during times of starvation, but they're probably just survival food. So let's hear your objections. Let's do it. Wow, that, I mean, that's that's, do you know what my kind of anthropological early, early civilization history isn't good enough to kind of contradict that? But I imagine that that's quite a controversial interpretation of the kind of the history of man in terms of what we ate in the early days and especially bearing in mind, you know, environmental choices for veganism and so on at the moment. But look, I certainly don't follow a vegan diet. Let's follow. Okay, so a couple of the objections then. And I listened to those podcasts with Joe Rogan as well, the Michaela Peterson and the Jordan Peterson. And I was fascinated by the carnivore diet. And one of the first things that occurred to me with her autoimmune issues and with you, you know, what you've been talking about as well is that whether she'd been following a carnivore diet or some other exclusion diet, she basically excluded everything from her diet apart from one thing meat. And therefore a lot of that, you know, because she'd excluded so much, she got to the root of the problem, would this diet work as well if you say excluded everything, except for one vegetable celery, for example? That would be a catastrophic thing to do in the long in the long term. Yeah. And I think that there's an interesting there's an interesting nuance here. It is not unheard of. In fact, it's fairly common for people on vegan diets to have improvement in health outcomes. Yes. And I think that is because of the principle that you're suggesting that the exclusion of triggering foods, and I would argue that those foods are very rarely animal foods, but often grains and dairy, they could be dairy, dairy can be a triggering thing, but sometimes people react to egg whites. It's very unusual for people to react to animal meats or animal organs. But the exclusion of triggering foods is a very powerful lever. The problem with just eating a celery diet or a potato diet, as has actually been done, or a twinkie diet, is that after you get past the first sort of immunologic quiescence or the calming of the immune system, when you remove the offending food or foods, you're going to have pretty rapid onset of nutritional deficiency and catastrophic failure of human metabolism. And unfortunately, and this may sound biased, but it's really the fact, unfortunately, this is what happens in vegans quite often. And we're seeing this repeatedly now that people on exclusively plant-based diets are having real problems with their nutritional health. There are multiple sort of staunch vegans proselytizing, you know, passionate vegans who are now returning to eating meat, they often become carnivores, interestingly enough, because of reproductive issues, early menopause, loss of libido, loss of clear thinking. And so, though people have seen improvement in medical conditions with vegan diets, which are similarly, I would say selective or discerning, the long-term sustainability of those diets is poor. And I would argue that that's because plant foods are not good sources of nutrition for humans. As I suggested, plant foods can be used as survival foods for humans, but if we look at the long-term sustainability and just the nutrient content of plant foods, the bioavailability of nutrients in plants is very, very poor. They're just not from our operating system. And so that is a fairly unique approach in the world of kind of dietary advice, apart from other carnivores out there. You know, I mean, I certainly, and I would like to think, I think this podcast is pretty cutting-edge in in terms of mutual. and the kind of people that I've spoken to about it, but even so, very few of the 250 guests that I've had would agree with that. - That's why I do what I do. - Yeah, and I bet you're the best friend of the vegans as well. (laughing) - That's why we're here, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - It's a unique message. - And so, I mean, it is really fascinating because I must say that, you know, personally speaking, I know that I can be kind of, all sorts of things can be vaguely sensitive in terms of my diet, but most meats aren't one of them. Well, any meat, really, I've never really noticed a particular problem with any kind of meat. So what's your diet look like today, for example? What will your menu be from breakfast to dinner? - Well, I get asked this a lot on different podcasts, and what I'll say is, I'll first give an idea of a nose to tail carnivore diet because I think a general representation of the way that people do this is perhaps better than the way that I do it. I'm definitely a self-experimenter, so my diet might be a little bit different than what other people do. The idea with eating a nose to tail carnivore diet, and we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but I'll just clarify it for people quickly. A carnivore diet, in my opinion, is not about eating just meat. It's about eating nose to tail in the animal. And so, I think that, you know, when Makayla went on Joe Rogan and Jordan went on Joe Rogan, they talked about just eating meat. And the problem is that they're both now eating liver. I know Makayla well and I've spoken to her, and I'm gonna have her on my podcast soon. But, you know, they're both eating liver, and they're both eating more nose to tail now. It's important to realize that, basically what we're talking about with a carnivorous diet is not just muscle-need. No human population would have ever done that. No population of indigenous hunters does that. When you kill an animal out of respect for the animal, and out of desire for nutrients, we're going to eat the whole animal, which means we're going to eat the hide, if we can, or we're going to use the hide for clothes, we're going to eat the bone marrow, we're going to eat the organs like liver, we're going to eat the muscle meat, we're going to eat the brain. Now, these foods are not necessarily things that are palatable to the westernized person these days, but the concept is that there are unique nutrients in various compartments of the animal. So the way to construct a nose to tail carnivore diet is to really think about eating muscle-need, and adequate amount of animal fat, because I think it's important to consider the fat to protein ratio, and I think many in the carnivore community may be eating too much muscle meat, and not enough fat. I actually believe that humans are fat hunters first and foremost, and we know that humans don't function very well on protein as fuel, where you use fat very well as fuel in a ketogenic state. So getting enough fat is important by eating actual animal fat, and then also eating organs, things like liver, and perhaps in Europe, people are more accepting of liver, and more appreciative of the nutrient content, or more appreciative of the nutrient content of various organs. But basically, a nose to tail carnivore diet is eating meat, eating an appropriate amount of animal fat, which I think is pretty robust amount of fat to fuel our metabolism, and also eating animal organs. Liver is probably the most important one. Would the fat be, you know, would ghee and butter be part of that as well? - Ghee and butter could be, and most of the patients that I work with I suggest eliminating dairy completely, at least for the first month, because dairy can trigger some people, butter is gonna have some of the milk solids in it. Ghee is generally free of those, but may have a small amount for people. I recommend actual animal fat, and people seem to react the best to that. You go to the butcher and you ask for trimming, so you ask for suet, which is kidney fat, and that's quite delicious if you just pan fry it briefly, or something, it's pretty rich and it's really good. And I think that that's what our ancestors would have done. In fact, there are anthropologic reports of people killing animals or hunting animals that were lean and saying, "There's no food there. We don't want a lean animal. We're gonna select for certain animals at different times of the year when they're fattiest. That is the real prized animal." And, you know, on my YouTube channel, we, I talk to Mickey Bendor, who is an anthropologist, a paleoanthropologist, and he still told me that in many indigenous cultures, and he published a whole paper about this, which I can send you, the greeting that they use is translated as plenty of fat. So it's so interesting that, yeah, they say, yeah, you know, they say like, "Hello, or good morning," or, "I'm good," and the way that translates is plenty of fat, plenty of fat, and that, I think, is so cool. - That is cool, but I still wanna know what you're eating today, Paul. I'll tell you, I'll tell you. So, in general, carnivores eat things like, you know, they eat chicken, they eat fish, they eat pork, they eat beef and ruminants, deer, and they eat the whole animal. So that you wanna eat liver, you wanna eat the other organs, you wanna get an adequate amount of fat, that you salt, salt is a very important seasoning, because when you go into ketosis, you're going to waste a lot of salt. So often people don't get enough salt when they're in ketogenic diets. People will also eat eggs, daily fish eggs. And so, there's a large variety of foods that you can eat, you know, seafood, things like this on a carnivore diet, but it's important to think of all the nutrients that you need. They're readily available in the animal kingdom, you just have to eat with some variety. Personally, I get up in the morning and I eat duck eggs. I really like duck eggs, they're just so rich and creamy. So I will eat duck eggs in the morning, and I will eat liver. I eat about four to six ounces of liver a day. I really appreciate the nutritional content of liver. And then I will eat some fat, and I prioritize fat in my diet. So I will eat some of this grass-fed animal fat, and it's actual trimmings from the animal. I'll either cook it up in a pan or just salt it and eat it raw, it's pretty good both ways. And then I will eat grass-fed meat, and it's usually steaks. And so, I'll either do in New York or a tenderloin or a ribeye, and that's my morning meal. I usually eat two meals a day, I do time-restricted feeding, where I have a smaller condensed window. I'll usually eat a late lunch at two or three in the afternoon, and that'll be my second meal all the day. And it's often pretty similar to the first meal. I'll probably eat some more duck eggs. Sometimes I just eat the yolks, and then I will add some fat, and I'll eat some grass-fed steak. I also have salmon roe, which are salmon eggs in my diet. I will occasionally eat seafood. I'll try and eat low-merk-y fish like salmon. I like scallops, I like shrimp. I've made sardines from time to time. I'll do things like buffalo or elk. It's available. And yeah, that's kind of what I eat on a daily basis. I do also have a calcium source. I get like a low metal bone meal, so I get a bone meal for a source of calcium because carnivores need calcium. So that's kind of how I construct it. Does that give you a sense of what I mean? Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I mean, duck eggs, liver, and cuffat for breakfast. It does sound delicious. Yeah, you do me as a superficial. I bet. And in terms of a high fat, I certainly know when I'm on a high fat diet, and I can tell the difference in my energy levels. And when it slips and there's too much carbs, I feel it pretty quickly. Do you also notice it in your mental clarity? Because many people notice that. I did my blood glucose and my ketones last night, maybe a few hours after eating dinner. And my blood glucose was 65, and my ketones were 2.3. So I was running on ketones. And I don't know if you notice. Do you notice a difference in your mental sort of fortitude or your mental clarity when you're running on fat? Yeah, I do. But actually, it's interesting because you mentioned the histamine stuff. And something that I've been focusing on a lot recently is I changed a couple of months ago, and I started eating low histamine foods. And what a difference. Almost more than carbs or fat are anything else, just focusing on low histamine foods. Now, there's a reason behind why high histamine foods are obviously reacting to me, and that I'm not quite sure about. But I found that the histamine content of food is almost more important than whether there's carbs or fat, which is probably quite interesting. But I can't analyze it more than that. And when people are doing histamine, low histamine diets on a carnivore perspective, I generally recommend just fresh foods. You might want to avoid bone broth, things like this can have more histamine. But fresh meats and fresh organ foods will not have a lot of histamine. Some people have diamine, oxidase, polymorphisms. Interestingly, for people that are histamine-sensitive, kidney-- Yeah. This was what I was going to say to you. Yeah. Kidney has the enzyme diamin oxidase. It does. So people can either use kidney supplements from desiccated organs, or you can eat kidney. And kidneys are pretty rich organ as well. That's funny, because it's sitting right in front of me. I've got this ancestral supplements, grass-fed kidney, which is-- I mean, that's a great supplement. It's very, very hard to find a grass-fed kidney supplement over here in the UK. So I have to get a cent over from America. But-- I love that cut. Yeah. And you can take that half an hour before a meal, and it will actually help you deal with the histamine content of food, which is what I've been doing anyway. Yeah, that's a great way to do it. And yeah, the kidneys are a unique organ. And then-- well, I'm glad you approved of that, because I would have been gutted if you didn't, because I've been-- I've been using that don't quite a lot, actually. Well, these sponsor my podcast. I really love that. They're great guys. Yeah, they're-- very, very, very interesting company. I really think it's great. and I think it'd be fabulous. if they could do something on that over in this country, because you can't really, you can't import meat and sell it over here like that. So that's why it's hard to get this stuff over here. I mean, you have to smuggle it in and you suitcase from America when you come over. You suitcase, don't think you're. Maybe I'll think it's something else. I know, yeah. Yeah, that's very true. I am running a series of webinars at the moment to help you become an author in 2026. One of the wonderful things about this podcast is that I get to work with so many people who are real experts in their area. And I found that's not just the guests. It's you listening as well. So many people are interested and involved in some way as an expert in the health, wellness, longevity, personal development field, productivity field, whatever it might be, a lot of entrepreneurs listening as well. And many people spend years thinking about writing a book, but something always gets in the way. So if you would like to build wealth, earn while you sleep, and write your expert book in 2026, come to one of my forthcoming webinars. I'm running a series of events. You can go to totallywritin.com/experttoauthor. That is totallywritin.com/experttoauthor. I've written nine books published in 13 languages. You may know that if you listen to this podcast for a while. And I've got the formula that took me to bestseller status. And it is surprisingly straightforward. Now, in this special masterclass, I'm going to show you the exact process. Thousands of authors have now used to publish a book that builds authority and revenue. I've been working on this for two decades, and now I'm sharing it with you in this masterclass. So come to the forthcoming webinar. There's a few on the way. If you go to totallywritin.com/experttoauthor, you can secure your spot. I'd love to see you there. So many people spend years thinking about writing a book. Let's make it happen in 2026. What about supplements? How do they kind of fit into what you take and your diet? And what's allowed and what isn't? Or do you take supplements? You know, the only supplements that I think are needed are generally electrolytes. And this has to do with ketosis and salt wasting. The naturalesis of fasting. I mentioned the importance of salt earlier. I think that if people are on ketogenic diets, which many of your audience may be, or knows to tell carnivore diets, it's very important to consider the fact that we're going to waste salt. So I don't think many people would consider salt as supplement, but either there's a company here in the states called Redmond Real Salt, which is an inland salt deposit that doesn't have microplastics and is less contaminated than sea salts. And I use that liberally. And what we know looking at sodium excretion in the urine and looking at levels of salt that we can use as humans, most humans on ketogenic or carnivore diets probably need at least 10 grams of sodium chloride per day, which ends up being about five grams of sodium per day or more. And so if people go keto or carnivore and they end up with lethargy or they end up with hormonal changes or they're cortisol spikes, it's usually because they're not getting enough salt. So I think about electrolytes a lot in my clients. The other electrolytes I think of are potassium and magnesium. And they're all connected. If you don't get enough sodium, your body will waste potassium because of the potassium sodium sort of counter current exchange during the kidney. Your body will waste potassium in order to hold onto sodium. And so if we don't get enough sodium, we can become potassium deficient on a ketogenic or carnivore diet. Carnivore is a ketogenic way of eating. And then magnesium is an interesting one. People do find benefit to magnesium supplementation. My suspicion is that historically we would have had more magnesium from a drinking water. And if you look at magnesium in foods, even in plant foods, I would argue strongly that magnesium is basically impossible to get enough of. And we don't really know what enough magnesium is. And the RDA for magnesium is kind of a fuzzy target. But you know, people might say, "Oh, almonds are a good source of magnesium." Or kale is a good source of magnesium. Well, guess what? You're not going to absorb any of that magnesium. And you can easily become magnesium deficient. Because of phytic acid. So the way that the skits back to the idea that plants and animals are from different operating systems, plants don't use magnesium in the same way that animals do. So magnesium is going to be much more bioavailable and magnesium is present in animal meat. Magnesium is going to be much more bioavailable when it's eaten from an animal because the animals are using that magnesium in the same way that humans do. Plants don't use magnesium in the same way as humans. They keylate it with a molecule called phytic acid. Well, the problem is that when you're trying, somebody's trying to sell you almonds because they're high in magnesium. They're trying to extoll the virtues of kale. They're not going to tell you the fact that, yeah, magnesium is not really bioavailable to humans because it's in this phytic acid sort of keylated molecule or it's in chlorophyll molecule, which is another large molecule that kind of keylates magnesium in a plant. And so this is the problem with plant nutrients. Is that people who are advocating for plants are not really telling you the whole story, which is that plant nutrients are not in the same form that humans use them, whether we're talking about niacin, whether we're talking about vitamin A, which is beta-carotene and plants and retinal and humans, whether we're talking about folate, whether we're talking about omega-3s, alpha-linoninetic acid versus EPA and DHA. Plant nutrients just don't get used that well by humans because it's from a different operating system. It's like MAC versus PC. And I would argue that humans are MACs and animals, or plants are windows or PC because I'm partial to MACs. So anyway, that's the perspective on that. But I think that if people are getting enough salt, they may not have any need for potassium or magnesium. But does it be the only things I would consider for-- And do you recommend an electrolyte for all those, as well as obviously this salt? Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to do an electrolyte. People have to be a little bit aware of potassium supplementation based on other co-morbid things. If people have kidney disease or people are taking angiotensin receptor blockers or ACE inhibitors or potassium-sparing diuretics, you have to be very careful about your potassium intake. But generally, potassium is pretty safe. Potassium in the States, perhaps in the UK, is so-- Is that one you'd recommend or one you'd like a brand? In terms of magnesium, what I use now is mega-mag, which is a liquid magnesium from a company called Trace Minerals. Yeah. And it's just-- I just use 400 milligrams in the morning. So I can just-- I'll give you listeners this piece of information. So in the morning, when I get up, the first thing I do is sort of move around and get the blood flowing. And then I get a big glass, maybe half a liter or more, of water with redmond real salt, probably at least two or three grams of salt in the water. I'll put 400 milligrams of liquid magnesium. And then I'll dissolve about a gram of potassium chloride. Now, the caveat there is people should know what their potassium levels are in the blood before they go taking a gram of potassium chloride. Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit. You just have to know. But the potassium chloride that I use is from bulk supplements. It's just a powder so you can dose it a little bit higher than you can a pill. I don't really like pills. For many reasons, a lot of them have methylcellulose, which is a sort of a thickening agent that has been shown to affect gut and eucosal barrier. A lot of them have titanium dioxide and silicone dioxide, which are nanoparticles, which can also cause perhaps leaky gut and have inhumans. So I avoid pills as much as I can. I don't take any pill supplements right now. And what's amazing is if you look at eating notes of tail on a carnivore diet, there's no reason to take a supplement. You're getting everything you need, whether it's vitamin K2 or some nice people worry about other vitamins and minerals, but it's all there. The one that a lot of people think about is vitamin C. I'm happy to talk about that a huge bike. But yeah, I don't do any other supplements. I think of egg yolks and liver as my multivitamins. So, I mean, you mentioned vitamin C there. I think a lot of people are thinking, okay, we've been told for so long that the nutrients and that the kind of nutrient powerhouses in our diet come from veggies and plants and green veggies and smoothies and you're not getting any of that. Is this a diet that you intend on following? And presumably you feel great on it. I can tell that. Do you intend it following? Again, you've got lots of energy and that this podcast is all about energy. But do you intend on following this for the rest of your life? - I have to say yeah, I mean, I'm open to change. I hope someone will change my mind and that I'm wrong. You know, I want to learn. - Well, that's good. I like people who are open to changing their mind and adapting their thought process. - Yeah. - That's great. - And so it's difficult to say, people often ask me that and all I'll say is, I intend to do this for the rest of my life because I'm writing a book and I'm most of the way through it now and as far as I can tell based on my research, which is, I mean, I'm doing a lot here. There's nothing really valuable about plants. And again, that's a huge statement that's difficult to answer. - It's a biggie. Right. - Yeah. - That's difficult to unpack completely, but in this podcast, but yeah, I don't think I'm missing anything. I've done extensive blood work. There are no nutrient efficiencies that I have and I'm functioning really well. My testosterone is high. I have good energy. I'm sleeping well. The nutrients in my body are fine. And if you, I mean, the statement you made, let's just unpack that a moment for people. We have been told for so long that the powerhouses are green vegetables. And I think that's such a misconception. That's really not the case. And if you really dig into it from a nutritional biochemical perspective, that's not true at all. In fact, the only thing, I would not the only thing, but the main thing you're getting from green vegetables are plants. - Yeah. toxins. If you look at leafy greens like spinach, it's just full of oxalates, which are a real big problem. These are two carbon organic acids that can accumulate in joints. They cause kidney stones. They've been linked to Volvo vaginal pain women. They're potentially connected with autism. There are a number of people that are concerned about that. And they bio-accumulate. We make a small amount of oxalates in human biochemistry as a waste product and we excrete them. But you can get, if you make that super quote-unquote "nutrient dense power smoothie with spinach and almonds and beets, you can easily get a gram of oxalates in one smoothie. And there are case reports, Tony, of green smoothie cleanses causing nephropathy. Frank kidney failure in people who are predisposed to absorbing higher levels of oxalates. There are multiple case reports of death, muerto from a green smoothie. Oh, yeah. From oxalates. From oxalates. People who had high, it wasn't from a green smoothie. It was from soror, which is perhaps something you guys have over there. It's very high in oxalates, but star fruit, soror, rhubarb, there are case reports of death. And they're not just one or two. There's probably 10 to 30 in the medical literature. Star fruit is a very, very high in oxalate thing. So basically the green smoothie is an oxalate bomb. It's electing bomb. It's an anti-nutrient bomb. And then if you people really dig into what I would challenge them to say is what nutrients do you feel like you're getting in a green smoothie? Nutrients do you feel like you're getting in greens that are so indispensable, look in animals, look in animal liver. It's going to be there in four to five times the amount in a much more bioavailable form. It's just kind of this narrative we've been told. And it's not the case. And then I'm sure, and you know, it's hard for me to argue because I'm kind of not a biochemist and it's not my area of speciality. It's just so interesting because it's so different from what we've been told on the traditional narrative. I think the other thing that's very interesting, and I'm sure you get asked this a lot, is the relationship between your diet and the environment. And you know, we hear so much about the one of the biggest threats to the planet is the fact that we all eat too much meat. Well, I have my own views on that because I think that, you know, certainly vegetarian and veganism diet or vegan diets can cause a different kind of stress on the planet, which is perhaps less focused on. But I wonder what you think about that. And I'm sure you've been asked that loads of times as well. Absolutely. So I just interviewed Peter Ballersted on my podcast. My podcast, by the way, is Fundamental Health with Paul Saladino MD. It's on all the platforms. And that podcast will be out in a few weeks as well. So Peter Ballersted is an environmental scientist. And you know, pretty similar to the notion that green foods are these magical sort of unicorns for us. The environmental arguments don't hold up to scientific scrutiny. If you look at the amount of greenhouse gases produced by animal agriculture, it is minuscule compared to the amount of greenhouse gases produced by technology and transportation. And it gets a little granular, but I'll just unpack it a small amount for your audience. The greenhouse gases produced by room and agriculture are methane. And it's not CalFAR. It's probably burping from cows. But those don't increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere because that is a cycling of carbon. The methane is produced. The methane is also produced from termites, but nobody talks about that. That methane goes into the atmosphere and then is broken down into carbon dioxide over the course of about a decade. And then that carbon dioxide is used by plants. It's reduced by plants into carbohydrates, which the animals eat. And then it goes back into the atmosphere. That is a fixed amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is cycling. That has been going on for all of human history, all of evolutionary history on the planet. Millions of years before humans. There were millions of animals creating methane and creating these sort of greenhouse gases. This has never talked about the fact that when we burn fossil fuel, we are adding to the amount of carbon in the environment. That is created carbon. That is new carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide from room and in agriculture, which globally represents about 10 to 12 percent of the total greenhouse gas emissions. And the United States greenhouse gas emissions from animals represent about 3 to 4 percent of the total greenhouse gas emissions with plant agriculture representing 5 percent. So plant agriculture represents more greenhouse gas emissions than animals in the United States and in the world. But when we burn fossil fuel, then we are creating new carbon dioxide. And that carbon dioxide is adding to the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. So we have to remember the scale and the fact that we are not creating new carbon dioxide with room and in fact, I will just add this. Room and in agriculture is good for the soil. You hinted at this. The monocrop agriculture, plant agriculture is probably necessary at some level. That depletes the soil of nutrients. It raises these horizons of nutrients within the soil, meaning it depletes nutrient rich soil, depletes phosphorus in the soil. The top soils are rotted. There is more susceptible to runoff with water. But what animals do is they return the phosphorus to the environment through their magical poop. And that is fertilizer. That is what we need to have good soil. We need animals grazing on the land. Alan Savry, there is a farm in the US called White Oak Pastures in Georgia that have shown that when they do room and in agriculture from a considerate perspective, from an intentional perspective, they can actually create net negative carbon emissions because the soil becomes enriched from an organic perspective. And the soil can become a sink for carbon dioxide. So they are net negative in carbon emissions. There is no other way we can do that. I just wonder if there is this kind of very unlikely scenario where all the vegans in the world decide that you are right. And all the kind of factory farming also decides that you are right. Is there a way that 6 billion people could be fed by kind of grass fed, room and in agriculture? You know, that is an interesting question. There are, and that's kind of painting me into a philosophical corner. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I was not responsible for 6 billion people on the planet. The first thing I will say, that's right, that's quite, I'm very fertile. The first thing I will say about that is that it's an implausibility, right? And I don't mean to invalidate your question because I think that the question that I think we should be asking is how do we scale this? If we truly believe that eating animals creates health for people and represents good nutrition for humans on the planet, how do we create more access to animal foods? If you look at the amount of people on the earth right now that are vegetarians, I think it's like 3 to 4%. I could be wrong, but it's not more than 10%. So we imagine that we are never going to get more than like 3 to 5% of the people on the planet eating a nose and tail carnivore diet. It's just never going to happen. So let's just accept it. That's an implausibility. The other issue is that if humans are going to create any solution to any problem on the planet, they need to have, they need to be smart, they need to be well nourished. And I would argue strongly that for the sustainability of future generations, the health of our current population is paramount. And the way that we create health for people is by giving them good nutrition. It will come as no surprise to your listeners that I believe good nutrition is animal-based nutrition. People don't have to be entirely carnivorous, but I think that the more animal products we eat, the more bioavailable nutrition we're going to get. One of the things I've spoken about on my podcast and other podcasts is that for people who are particularly sick, I think the carnivore diet can be very, very healing. And that's what we see. There are now thousands of anecdotes, thousands of case studies of people with calcetrin, mental health issues, depression, anxiety, bipolar schizophrenia, and autoimmune disease, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn's all sorts of colitis, axima lupus, fibromyalgia. I've mentioned many of these on my social media psoriasis. So I think that perhaps a no-satel carnivore diet will be most appealing to people who are very sick. The other thing, application of it I think is for people who are wanting to be optimal, or people who are just wanting to experiment with how good can I feel. I accept the fact that it's going to be such a break from what we're used to that people may not want to jump in. But I mean, there are lots of people who are not sick who are doing it and they end up feeling way better. They have acne resolved. They have little things that are kind of bothering them resolve and they didn't even expect that. So I think that the applications of the diet are varied. I don't think we'll ever have 6 billion people doing it. And I think that the real question is how do we scale it? How do we scale animal agriculture for the most number of people? And that kind of ties back into your previous question, which is what about the environmental aspects? I think that there is strong argument that if we put more room and it's on the planet, we will see a decreasing greenhouse gases. So I would argue that one of the best things we can do for future generations, for our children, is to put more room and it's on the planet that are grazing properly. And that is what we should be focused on. And then getting people better nutrition will allow for, I would argue, smarter humans, people to solve these problems. Yeah, room and it's a grazing problem. It's very different from the company. Yes. massive, especially in your country, these huge big business-owned farms that span large swathes of the country that are farmed within an inch of their lives. And that's very different from having cattle grazing and the natural cycles of the land. Well, I think that you have to be a little careful with that characterization. If you look at the way that cattle are raised in the US versus the way they're raised in the rest of the world, there's much less greenhouse gas emission from cattle in the US because of the way that we raise them. We're much better at raising them. There are many more cattle with GI infections and parasites in like India and Asia. And those cattle create more greenhouse gases because they're improperly managed. And there is factory farming. There might be less GMOs in India and other parts of the world as well. Maybe yes. Yeah, yeah, we're not good about GMOs here. But yeah, I think that the ideal thing would be returning the majority of rule in agriculture to entirely grass-based agriculture. That would be the way to do it. The only thing I'll say about feedlot agriculture is that cows are never raised their entire life in feedlots. They spend 85% or 75% of their life on pasture and then they go to the feedlot. I think then right now nobody really feels like that's the best thing. But it's an unfortunate reality at this point. Yeah. And I hopefully we could move more of that to grass-based sort of ruminant agriculture. Okay. Well, one question I've asked everyone and I'm going to ask you as well, Paul, is what is one book that has had a significant impact on you and that you would recommend? And what is one tip I wonder what it might be for living with more energy and vitality? So I, you know, one of the things that's interesting to me is mindfulness. And I have really appreciated the work of Tick-Not-Hon. I think one of my favorite books is Living Buddha, Living Christ. And I don't really identify with a religious, you know, dogma system. But I really think that the work of Tick-Not-Hon is very simply read. It's really a simple call back to mindfulness. Living Buddha, Living Christ is just about the similarities and the teachings of those two people. And I thought that was really pretty cool. Meditation is something that I constantly try to incorporate more in my life. There's so much busyness that we have right now. And I think that just the key for humans in general, regardless of what we eat, is just being kind to each other. And I think that that comes out of cultivating mindfulness. And that answer is probably way out of left field and it's just going to shock all your listeners. But that's cool. That's very cool. And you know, meditation's a fairly regular theme and you're right about the business. It's harder than ever to find the time to meditate as well for so many reasons for me at the moment. But it's a good reminder. And it doesn't surprise me that you're into it. I try. I'm no expert. Part of my fantasy is to be able to take more time to just kind of sit and reflect and be mindful in the future. So that would be amazing. And in terms of tips for people to live more healthfully, this one will come as no surprise to anyone. I think that it's really this idea that animal-based foods are the ideal food for humans. And it's not that humans need to be entirely carnivorous. I do think that an entirely carnivorous diet when it's done properly can result in incredible health. And it's probably worth a trial of that. A carnivore cleanse, as it will for many people, I would recommend, I think in my book, I'm going to talk about the carnivore 30, you know, a hat tip to whole 30. I'm going to talk about, you know, try a 30 day period with all, you know, no-satail animal-based foods and see how you feel. The carnivore 30, or C30 maybe, who knows. But I think that for people who are struggling with recalcitrant health issues and they're imagining that plants are doing them favors, I would say try a carnivore 30, try 30 days on a no-satail carnivore diet, or for people that just want to feel better, but may not have really specific health issues. Incorporate more no-satail animal foods, put some liver in your diet, get more grass fed meat, think about these very rich sources of nutrients, and do a little bit of research into the fact that the plants are probably not all that cracked up to be. I think that that's the direction we need to move it in, and I think that a lot of people are going to better section that. That is it for this podcast. Thank you so much for listening. As always, we'd really appreciate your review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you are listening, and we'll see you next week.