Brutality At The Beach - Seaside, Oregon

This week in Seaside, Oregon, when tourists find two horribly murdered bodies at the beach, detectives quickly begin to hunt a couple of locals who may have been trying to imitate a movie with these murders, but police won't have an easy time finding them. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely crazy edition of Small Town Murder. We try to never let you down, but you've got to have the extra crazy ones, and this is one of them. Just a wild story of senseless depravity. It's crazy stuff. Can't wait to get into it. Before we get into that, though, definitely head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com where you can find, first of all, all the merch that you ever could want. Anything, if you go, hey, that's pretty funny. It's probably on a T-shirt, so check that out. Or a hat or a coffee cup or a doormat or a skateboard or whatever you want it on. Get your tickets to Small Town Murder live shows, though. That is the important thing. We have September the 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Not a ton of tickets left for that, so if you want to go see that, definitely get those now. Next night, September the 19th. The State Theater in Minneapolis will also be there, so get your tickets right now. Those are the next two live shows. And then in October, we have Dallas-San Jose-Sacramento. And in November, Tarrytown in Boston. And then the holidays. So get your tickets now. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. While you're listening to this show, also maybe check out the other two shows. Give it a run. Crime and Sports, which, God, we've just been doing some really funny, great episodes on that. So check that out. And also, Your Stupid Opinions is absolutely hilarious. Find out why Ross's new slogan. That's what you should do by listening to that. 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What we do here is I'm going to line up four bachelors and four bachelorettes in front of Jimmy and all they have in common, they all have one thing in common, and that is they are all currently incarcerated. Violent felons. Now, Jimmy has no idea. Terrible partners. Terrible. Jimmy has no idea what they did, when they get out, or anything like that. What he does know is what they tell him in the profile. That's all he's got to choose from. And then he gets to find out what they did and how terrible of a decision that he's come to. It's very fun. So that's a good time. Patreon.com/CrimeInSports. On top of that, you also get all the shows we put out, all ad-free as well. And in addition to that, you also get a shout-out at the end of the show. So it's a good deal. Do that right now, Patreon.com/CrimeInSports. That said, disclaimer time, this is a comedy show, everybody. Now, you might say, "A comedy show? I want to hear a murder story." You're going to hear an extremely real murder story. We try to have the best research and the most facts and the most stuff we can possibly get in here. And we give jokes, too. That's just because we're comedians and we can't help it. There's no situation where we don't feel a joke might lighten up the mood a little bit. And then you go, "Well, how does that work?" Well, very easily here, we'd never make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. See? That's how that works. It's real nice. It's real clean and easy. There's plenty other stuff to make fun of. Some small town. We're all from some town that deserves to be made fun of. Who cares? We make fun of murderers because fuck them. Who cares? Let them have it. So that's the type of thing we make fun of, and it's a good time. So if you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go to the movies, you should go together. I don't know. You might not like the show, but you probably will. Either way, no complaining later. Let's just say that. With that said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. What do you say here? Let's clear the lungs. Here we go. Arms to the sky, and let's all shout, "Shut up and give me murder." Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. It's always a good time. We like Oregon. Oregon's cool. They got water there. It's nice. We're going to Seaside, Oregon, which, shocker, is by the sea. Near the ocean. It is beside the sea, Seaside. It's far northwestern Oregon, all the way up there. It's about an hour and a half to Portland, about three and a half hours to Seattle, and about five hours and 10 minutes to Grants Pass, Oregon, which was our last Oregon case, episode number 670. That was "The Cult of the Naked Shrew." Right. Which was a crazy episode for an express there. This is in Clatsop County, Clatsop, I believe, is how you say that, C-L-A-T-S-O-P, Clatsop. That sounds right. Oh. Clatsop, something like that. Area code 503 and 971, can't hold these people with one area code. Little bit of history of this town here. The Clatsop were a Native American tribe that lived here. That's where that comes from here. It's the coast. It's the coast. Indigenous people are where things are, like fish and things like that. So a lot of this was a big indigenous spot by rivers. On January 1st, 1806, a group of men from the Lewis and Clark expedition built a salt-making thing here at the site, which basically they do sea water and make salt. Yeah. And this is what turned into the town of Seaside. Oh. It was the salt works, basically. Really? Yeah. Lewis and Clark reached the Pacific Ocean. They set up camp north of Seaside by the mouth of the Columbia River. And then a few of the members traveled south to set up a salt works, where ocean water could be boiled to harvest the salt. They needed the salt because there's no other way to cure meat back then. So you could either eat it before it gets bad, or you can salt it and save it for later. Yeah. So the city was not incorporated until 1899, when the Coastal Reservoir was closed. So the resort areas started being settled. They said, "Okay, we got to start collecting some taxes, and you need to set up an infrastructure if you have tourists. You have to have roads and all that kind of thing." So there was a real estate developer who donated land to the city of Seaside for its one and a half mile long promenade, or prom as they call it there. Going to the prom, they all say, along Pacific Beach. In the '20s through the '40s, it was a big stop for musicians. West Coast. Because it was a little tourist town. It was like playing the Catskills in the East Coast. '20s through the '40s, huh? '20s through the '40s, Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller and all those type of people came through here. There was a riot in 1962 during the summer. A concert was supposed to happen and it got canceled, and the teenagers went fucking batshit. They went crazy. If there's anything I know about teenagers, they hate when you tell them no music. They hate it. No concert when they're jacked up for it. Paul Revere and the Raiders were supposed to be there. God no. And they didn't make it. Then a fist fight near the Times Theater between two teenagers escalated. It started with a fist fight between two teenagers. The police got involved, basically, because they're all drunk and pissed off and looking for something. The police tried to intervene in this, and that sparked the crowd to get involved. The next thing you know, the fire department was hosing down the crowd with their hoses, which didn't stop them. Instead, people cut the hoses. What? They stole fire truck keys. They stole fire trucks. Eventually, the National Guard and state police had to come to quell a bunch of drunk teenagers who were mad that Paul Revere and the Raiders weren't coming to town. Nope. But I got a fire truck. Wow. Holy shit. Just go. I'm running the horn, everybody. Isn't that fun? I know Paul Revere and the Raiders, but I can't name a goddamn song. No, I don't remember any of them either. I know a lot of old shit like that. I know. They're very, very popular. I've heard probably. I'm sure I've heard an entire album. Pre-Beatles shit right before that. Just didn't stick. Nope. Reviews of this town, five stars, and we probably know like 10 other songs, I bet. You do. 100%. Every word to them. Yeah. It's just not. Yeah. They're standards. It didn't stick who wrote it. Five stars. Seaside is a lovely town. We truly enjoy living here. You can ride bikes everywhere, go to the rec center, enjoy many different restaurants, hang out at the beach, garden. Go to the movies, walk the boardwalk, and on and on. You know, live like an Oregon lifestyle. You can eat food and watch TV and sit down and walk around sometimes if you want. Maybe make some popcorn. You know, whatever. You can just do what you want. Three stars. It's a very sad small town. It has not gotten any better in the past few years and I don't feel like it will change now. Crime seems to only get worse. If you are considering moving to Seaside. recommend any of the nearby beach towns, sure, they all have their flaws but they still have some character left seaside oregon is good for visiting only and this is a tourist spot so you're going to get crime i mean there's not a tourist spot on earth where crime doesn't happen tourists are easy marks which attract criminals and that's how that works also when when it's a tourist town if you go there as a tourist you can break the law and get the fuck out exactly so there's a lot of public urination yeah dumb shit like that you know fingering each other on the beach whatever the hell the deal is three stars it's a small town with not much to do overall is really good for sunsets and pretty good for seafood food pretty good for it seafood food not bad i mean right in the middle sunsets are nice on the pacific ocean really that's weird uh two stars the job market fluctuates a lot in seaside because it is based in tourism this causes a lot of problems with stability and jobs absolutely most jobs in seaside won't provide much work in the winter that's kind of how it goes and then finally one star wow horrible crime you can't leave your house without seeing flocks of drug addicts flocks of them i appreciate i'd rather call them a herd or a murder wouldn't you a flock i don't know if a flock is appropriate or something like that yeah uh drug addicts don't take nor take a nature walk without seeing vagrant camps full of dirty used needles and stolen goods from local neighborhoods crime rates are higher than the city cost of living is outrageous compared to wages and come and compounds the crime and drug problems nearly eight feet of rain per year is too much plus completely overrun and trashed by tourists in the summer eight feet this is the pacific northwest it's the far northwestern oregon so i mean this is that much every storm that comes yeah it's eight feet it's a lot you're getting a lot of rain here people in this town 7058 it's not a huge town that's the year-round number um way more women than men 55.4 percent women which is a way out of whack for a town of 7000 that's five that's a lot i don't think i've ever seen it that high over 200 people you know uh median age here they're older 51.2 wow this is like we're gonna retire by the beach type of shit here uh it's only 42 percent married um you know none of that it's not really a you know suburbs wife and kids in a you know the yard type of shit there uh race in this town 85 percent white 1.2 percent black one percent asian which is low for the pacific northwest uh 8.4 percent hispanic uh and then the religion here 27.7 percent religious which i agree if you if there you have the ocean you don't need that you know you know you're just like i'm gonna go to the i'm gonna go to the beach on sunday instead i feel like that might convince you that something else exists if it's that fucking beautiful how the fuck could this just be a that's the opposite for me yeah that's incredible somebody's gotta feel that way right probably yeah yeah people look at majestic things and they go someone had to create that yeah yeah absolutely yeah they go it's too pretty it's like a picture someone must yeah there's no way this is just a coincidence yeah it's it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence yeah it's just a coincidence people think that that's fine think whatever you just go i don't need anything else yeah just go this is great yeah think whatever you want i don't give a shit doesn't bother me uh 27.7 and the it's mainly like other christian faith that's all kind of spread around the religions a hodgepodge uh 0.0 percent jewish though um oh unemployment rate in this town little bit high um which seems odd for a town with a lot of tourism at least there's a lot of shit jobs i know if they're any good median household income here now rest of the country it's almost 70 000 here it is 41 488 really it's pretty damn low um now i don't know if some of that is the fact that you have older people maybe some social security income perhaps people mixed with people that work at a you know a souvenir shop yeah yeah it sells t-shirts and shit so cost of living here it's high incredibly high compared to what the income is are they still doing the salting no no no i mean there might be some i don't know if they yeah i don't think they do that here they know it's probably more profitable to put a motel up instead probably yeah a thing of salt that's like this big is like 49 cents i don't understand how salt is a business i really don't that like exotic pink himalayan shit that's not cheap it's still cheap it's still cheap that's different i'm talking your regular that paper card thing that's not quite cardboard that comes in it's like 49 cents for eight pounds of it how the fuck is anybody with the umbrella they cost nothing yeah it's nothing and i don't understand how just to ship that heavy a pallet of that would be so heavy it would cost something to ship more than 50 cents by weight alone at the at the post office it costs more exactly than it does to purchase and you have one of those for like seven years also it's not like you're buying them every two weeks you're spending another 50 cents it's everybody spends like you know like a dollar 50 every decade on salt basically it doesn't make sense if you get the the i get the kosher the thicker stuff just because it melts better into like into foods and stuff even that's so cheap compared to yeah how much how long it takes to get rid of that is how much you have yeah uh median home cost here this is wild four hundred sixty five thousand three hundred dollars wow so median income forty one thousand home cost anybody four hundred sixty five that i don't understand if you sound here broken if well if you're living here doing tourist jobs and shit yeah you're you're screwed yeah you're scraping by um so if we've convinced you damn it seaside's the place to go we have for you the seaside oregon real estate report so average two bedroom rental here goes for twelve hundred thirty dollars so that is actually below the national average with the housing is it 14 high it's it's like 1290 okay almost 13. um here is the first house it's it's a trailer don't get too excited here yeah not bad on the inside though laminate or wood floors that look decent it's clean in there it looks nice and well maintained three bedroom two bath fourteen hundred forty square feet it is a double wide yeah you can see it's got the two windows up front here um it is built in 1975 this is sixty nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine bucks okay not bad just had a right yeah it's there's no square footage on the there's no uh lot size so that means you don't own it um sixteen thousand dollar price cut they just had on that too so get in there everybody deal smoking deal um here is a three bedroom one bath fifteen hundred sixty square foot house nice house got some brick on it pretty decent built in nineteen sixty eight two hundred seventy thousand dollars okay that's kind of your average entry level house and uh for 270 which isn't too too bad then we have and a lot of times the the housing prices are driven up by the real expensive houses that's how the median gets driven up but it's not not a lot of those here's a four bedroom four bath t-bowl for each and every b-hole everybody forty one hundred square feet right on the ocean beach is your backyard built in nineteen forty on a third of an acre uh it's a nice house very well done inside too two million six hundred thousand dollars for no land it's no it's the water it's the water you're on the ocean the beach and everything else so i mean if you want to live on the water it's going to cost you that's it i guess um things to do here well go to the beach dipshit that's one thing to do the promenade thing and all the stuff there so that's a big deal and then there is the seaside sand fest sand fest sand fest which sounds terrible sounds like i'm gonna be itchy um it says join us here featuring master level sculptors advanced amateur sculptors instructors vendors and a one-of-a-kind beach experience in seaside basically this is crazy sandcastles oh they built which are pretty interesting i mean i see those and i go wow that took a lot of time doesn't seem worth it and then i leave very happy for you to have made that eleven thousand foot long mermaid but it's like making an ice sculpture though it is temporary it is not going to last yeah and also how'd you carve out that much time well yeah who says i'd like my art to be extremely fleeting i'd like to make it and then just have to make it and then just have to make it and then have it disappear after a minute that's what i'd like i just catch art is what i'm looking for water doesn't get it have you seen the sphinx have you heard of it yeah it's pretty fucked up and this is just sand this isn't you know they haven't baked anything yeah there's nothing here um the master sculptors will hold a contest september 17th through 20th 20th advanced amateurs will be a different date um it says after years of busking and offering lessons in other words after years of bothering people with their art and their on the beach, is what he said. This person, you want me to teach you how to build a sandcastle? No, fuckhead, I'm on vacation. Leave me alone. Yeah, I have a little rake thing that I bought for $4 at that store. Burt Adams hosted yet another beach and sand sculpture event. After four years of growth, this was a couple years ago, Seaside Sand Fest offers a week of watching professional sand sculptors do their thing. Is that what you want to do? Watch sand sculptors do their thing? I'm impressed when they can get the sand to stand up. It's pretty impressive. Like Poseidon with his fucking thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wet it down a little. Yeah. The trident. That's pretty impressive. It is. Crime rate in this town, what we are interested in here, it is high. Property crime, again, a beach tourist town. Almost three times the national average of property. That's theft. That's, you know, public urination. That's the highest we've ever heard of. Public drunkenness. Nah, we've heard more than that. Three times? We've heard worse than three times. Yeah, I think. But that's a lot, though. I mean, that's, like I said, pick any beach tourist town. That's what it's going to be. It's just what it is. So, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, slightly above average, but not too bad. So, that's in the normal range. So, I think this is mainly dumb people doing dumb shit when they're drunk on vacation in the middle of the night. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Here we go. Which wasn't just some dumb people doing some dumb shit in the middle of the night. This was pretty crazy. Let's go back in time to 1997. Mm-hmm. 1997. So, we're pre-1990. So, pre-any kind of social media, pre-there's cell phones, but they're only for making calls, and it's extremely expensive, and the battery dies very quickly. Not a lot of technology that's impressive yet. No. I mean, there's the internet, but nobody has high-speed internet yet. This is still dial-up internet. Everybody still has those projection TVs with the three fucking bulbs. This is the dot-com boom at this time. So, 5 a.m., July 14th. July 14th, 1997. So, middle of the summer, middle of the Taurus season. 5 a.m., there's Taurus out for a morning beach stroll. Isn't that nice? That's what you do. Nothing better than taking that morning beach walk. For me, it would be late at night, and then I'll go to sleep, but either way. I love a little coffee. However you want to work it. So, they're out for a morning beach stroll, and they're thinking, ooh, you know, maybe I'll find some shells. Yeah. You know, things like that, nice things. Some wash-up on the beach that they said on last night. Message in a bottle, maybe. Oh, wouldn't that be romantic? Oh, boy. Pirate's booty? Instead, they find two people, and they think at first, oh, there's people sleeping on the beach. On the beach. On the beach, but they're not. They're found, there's two adults, a man and a woman, lying face up with large bullet holes in their head. Oh. Just lying on the beach. Shot on the beach, though. Shot on the beach. So, this is definitely, this will ruin your vacation. I would say. For sure. This will fuck it all up. Now, you got to go down to the station. How many days do you have there? How much time do you have to spend? You know? At least one all day, right? Yeah. This is, they're going to have to. They were found on the beach near 6th Avenue in the early morning there. Each of the bodies had sustained single close-range fatal gunshot wounds to the head, front of the head. So, they were, they said that the shots were from a range of guns. A range of one to three feet for the female and not less than three feet for the male. Oh. So, that's how it worked. Or, I'm sorry, the other way around. Male and female. Okay. The victims were otherwise uninjured. There's no stabbing or there's no, like, bruising of, you know, beating or anything like that. So, they didn't understand that there's no weapon at the scene at all. But there are a lot of footprints and they find shell casings. There are also, and some physical evidence that they could possibly, unfortunately, too, footprints in the sand. Not good. Pretty fleeting. Again, this is a temporary thing. These are sandcastles. You got to take your pictures and all that kind of shit. Yeah. Now, the seaside police chief said, we believe this is an isolated incident and we're continuing our investigation at the crime scene. How they pulled that out of their asses, I have no idea. Yeah. What does that? They've been there an hour. Yeah. They're still processing and they're like, we believe that everyone should still go out and spend money. That's what we're saying. This is an isolated incident. Don't worry about it. There's no rain today. So, everything's fine. Blue skies. Everything seems fine to me. So, among the few leads they can muster up here at first is two men who were at a campfire late that night and going early into the morning said to other men who were about 19 or 20 years old. Not kids, but not really adults, type of thing, approached and somehow gave them the impression that they were plotting to kill them, the people at the fire, two people at the fire. Now, the police say anybody who was on that beach at that time is a person of interest and until we talk to them, they will continue to be persons of interest. So, you are guilty until if you've been on this beach, basically, until we clear you. Yeah. There are some witnesses. Like we said, there is one witness who they said was a blonde man who appeared to be intoxicated and had trouble walking and talked slowly and whose eyes were red, which if they're very intoxicated, that'll do it. Fucked up. Yeah. Then there was a brown-haired man as well out of the two guys they said, the 19 and 20-year-old guys, one blonde, one brown hair. The brown-haired man appeared to be normal, they said, acting normal, wasn't shit-faced. Not being weird. They said that one of them, the dark-haired one, said his name was Jeremy. Yeah. So, they have an unknown drunken blonde man and Jeremy the brunette is who they're looking for, essentially, which is a needle in a haystack or a needle in a beach sand, either one, however you want to put it. It's the second time I've heard of somebody from the Pacific Northwest named Jeremy, so it seems to be a common name. You've got to watch out for him. Well, that Jeremy already took care of his own problems. By the time this happened. That Jeremy was all washed out by that. Long gone. He was all over all the other kids. Yep. So, we find out who the victims are first. The victims are, first of all, the young lady is Gabriela Brooke Goza, G-O-Z-A. She's 26 years old. She goes by Brooke, that's what everybody calls her, her middle name. She has two kids, we find out. Mother of two. This is very sad. She comes from kind of a prominent family. Her father is a doctor. Dr. Larry. Yeah, Dr. Larry Goza. So, she is not trailer trash or anything like that. She comes from a prominent family, 26 years old, mother of two. So, they're like, well, this is weird. This isn't great. She is described as a very artistic person. She did a ton of art. She made pictures that people put up in local restaurants and things like that with her art. She quit high school and got married, which is never a good idea. This is Steve Covino from Covino and Rich. All right, quick round of trivia before we get back into the show. But we're doing it differently this time. Every guy listening right now, you're a contestant. No buzzers, no calling in. Just answer honestly to yourself. Here we go. You got a belly and a little chest that won't go away no matter what you try. 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So, she's got two kind of little kids. They're four. They're four and eight at this point. This is 97? So, she had them young. Oh, yeah. She had them young. She dropped out of high school to get married. So, they started having kids. I guess nowadays, she hangs out at the beach a lot. And she works as a cook at a restaurant job. All right. So, probably not exactly what Dr. Larry had in mind, her dad. Yeah, certainly letting him down a little bit. Yeah, she told everyone she was trying to earn money. And she earned money toward college, which I don't know where her parents weren't paying for it, I guess. She went to Astoria High School originally and attended Clatsop Community College in Astoria for three years. And she wanted to have a teaching degree with a major in art. She wanted to be an art teacher, essentially. So, for years, she lived in an apartment under her dad's office. There was an apartment under the office. And she lived there with her son and daughter for a time. And then she ended up moving to Seaside in 1997 This was nearby, but not, you know, not in Seaside particularly. In May of 97, she moves to Seaside. And her dad said, so, I mean, this was, Christ, two months before this happened. Yeah. She moved to Seaside. She divorced? By now, yes. Yeah. I don't even know if they ever ended up getting married or not. I'm not sure. She dropped out to get married, but then may or may not have gotten married. May not have followed through with the actual marriage. We're not sure. Her dad, Dr. Larry, said, quote, she moved to Seaside about eight weeks ago and was completely on her own. She was no longer on assistance from the state, and we all felt she was making progress. Oh. She's had some troubles here. Everybody in her family felt she was doing good, is what the dad said. He said also that his relationship with his daughter improved when she moved to Seaside. I wonder what happened. She moves to Seaside without the kids, though. The kids stay. They stay with Dr. Larry and Mom. Oh, with Grandma and Grandpa. Yeah. The kids are staying there. She moved to Seaside, and I guess since then, they've been getting along better with her not living with them, I guess. There was a challenge she faced somewhere, huh? Something, yeah. Something's going on here. Her children came to visit her a couple times a week, and she was very close to her children, is what her brothers and her mother said. So she was still paying attention to her kids. She didn't just leave and leave them behind. She was a regular at Sam's Seaside Cafe. And the owner of the cafe said that she had a very positive outlook on life and very creative. And he was planning on displaying one of her paintings on the wall, but didn't get a chance to before she was killed, basically. Oh, she painted the children's venue the best? That's it. She did one of those maps on the back of it, actually, on the placemat. It was very detailed, though. I do love those family cafes where they've got whatever the kid's venue is, and they've just got. Fucking wallpapered with them, and they're just terrible colorings. Awful. Kids can't color for shit. We shouldn't encourage them when they're coloring that poorly. Don't hang that shit on the wall. Nice try. I'm proud of you for trying. That's not very good. Try harder. Try harder. Do better. See those lines? In the lines. Get the color in there. In those lines. There's a point to this. So he said that she'll be missed, is what the guy said. The owner of the cafe said she loved to hang out. She loved to meet people. She was very friendly, and she'd go up to people she didn't know and just talk to them. Okay. Also, what she would do in this. Going up and talking to people, that's fine. This part of it is not okay. She would sometimes grab poems out of her backpack and read them to people that she didn't even know. Okay. How you doing? I'm Brooke. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me read you a poem. Poetry. Poetry. I'm out of it. I got shit to do. I'm very late. But you're on vacation. You don't understand. My toast is getting so cold. This is ridiculous right now. My Captain Crunch is getting soggy. I need to go immediately. So she would do that. And she wrote her own. These aren't like other people. Let me read you some Wadsworth. She would read her own poems. She faced a challenge somewhere. I'm certain of it. Had to have. So her poems, which the restaurant owner described as, quote, life poems. I don't know what that means. He said, we're part of part of the whole vibe of the restaurant. Basically, it was her and her poems. She fit in with the fabric of it. She's only been here for eight weeks, too. This isn't like, you know, she's been here for 10 years. She said, he said some regulars, some regular couples came in and she'd often read poems to them. They must've been good poems to not get kicked out of the restaurant for doing. Yeah, they have to be decent. But people go. Okay. I don't want any. And then she reads and they go, actually, it wasn't too bad. Okay. And then they go back to what they're talking about. It's like Mr. Deeds reading greeting cards, though. It's like people are excited against their will sit down and listen to my, my soul fucking come out of my body, please. Um, she also sang at Sam's sometimes they had open mic nights and, uh, she would join some band that was playing and she would sing. So she's likes to hang out and have a good time, uh, on the Friday before she was killed. She was at Sam's singing with some other guitar player that was playing guitar. And she was singing. Um, the owner of Sam said that after Sam's closed that night, a group of people went to the beach club and he said, she sat with us there until they closed. And, um, he said during the summer, there's a lot of times when, especially the workers of the bars and stuff, they're not ready to go home when the bars close, which is everywhere. Not sure. You just got off work. Yeah. People get off work at five. They don't go. Okay. I'm going to go home and go right to bed. No one does that when they get off work. I don't understand why they expect these people to be different. But, and then the late shift people, they get their shift drink too. So they're going to, if, if, like, if we just closed, I still get a shift drink. I'm sitting here until this motherfucker is gone. That's it. So they said, basically, they just go to the beach after all the bars were closed. And they said, sometimes they would, uh, get some to go beer and they'd go down to the beach and have a bonfire and, you know, hang out like people do. She said, the guy said she often. Went down on, uh, on the beach with people late at night. So to find her on the beach in the morning, isn't not rare, not rare that she would be at the beach. It's not like, what's she doing at the beach in the middle of the night? She hangs out and does stuff. Uh, when she, she's, I guess, like I said, she's working as a cook at a restaurant. One of the jobs she had was at Gregorio's pizza, where she worked as a pizza cook, which is pretty cool. That was until the 4th of July. Then she worked for. A short time at Rob's restaurant. And the last night that, that Sam's guys talked to her, she was excited about a new job. She'd be starting at Riley's restaurant. Great. So she's in like course of a month. She's this, she's on her third job here, which restaurants, you kind of have to find the vibe that fits you. Yeah. I think that any career that you're in, if you're not actively looking for, for a better opportunity, then you're going to always stay put. It's never, it's never going to get better. Absolutely. Especially, like I said, a restaurant, sometimes you don't like how it works. You don't like the food, you don't like the, you know, cooks you're stuck with or whatever it is. And so you're like, I don't want to be here and maybe this one's paying a little better. That's the other thing too. Maybe it's, you know, 11 bucks an hour instead of 10 or whatever back then. So Dr. Larry here, uh, Brooke's father said that his daughter did have an outlook on life and the way he put it, uh, she was starting to turn her life around. Okay. So she really went hard into it. Having fun for a minute. Yes. And her parents were pissed off at her for a while. Her father said this in the newspaper quote, I was at odds with her for years because I wanted her to be a better mommy, not disappointed, furious, pissed. Yes. That's and disappointed that, you know, then you have these kids and you leave them with me and that sucks. You know what I mean? You got to be more there. He also said that he felt she started to overcome her problems recently and was coming into her own more, which she's 26. A lot of people. It takes, sometimes it takes you until you're 30, 33 to figure out what the hell's going on in your life. It really doesn't. That's the shit part is if you have kids, you don't have that luxury of figuring yourself out when you're 30, you got to be, have your shit together as soon as one pops out of the fucking canal there. And sometimes for, for girls, it's harder to, to keep that child free lifestyle going because sometimes it's not up to you whether or not, you know what I mean? They're the ones getting knocked up. Yeah. You don't know until, until you miss a period. Okay. Imagine if guys could get knocked up, we would be constantly pregnant, constantly. It would be a mess. We would be a, imagine if everybody wanted to fuck us and we could get pregnant. Everything else is still the same, except for some reason, every woman wants to fuck us and they can knock us up. We would be, oh my God, there would be drive through abortion clinics. If we had that, cause we, how many abortions have you had this year? Like eight this year and about 13 last year. So less. We wouldn't even, there would be a liquid to drink that you would mix in your Budweiser. Yeah. Everything would be over the counter. You know, it works better with alcohol. It'd be right on the label and you'd put it, you'd put it in your beer and drink it. That's how guys would be. You'd get it for free when you bought an AR. Yeah. I find it hilarious when guys start to get like moralistic about women and all she needs to stuff. You would be a pregnant a hundred times. By now. Cause I would too. So don't fucking think you wouldn't. Yeah. I've helped out when I, when I've made mistakes. Yeah. So the other victim, the male victim is Frank Kevin Nims, N I M S. So they have both have four letter last names with a Z in them. What are the odds of two people hanging out together, both with four letter last names, both containing a Z just mathematically. N I M Z weird. Just the, the mathematical odds of that are crazy. He's 36 years old. He goes by Casey with a K K a C Y. That's what everyone calls him. He's he's his dad's name is also Frank. So I think he picked the nickname. So there was no confusion. What's he, he's 36. A little bit about him here. He's born and raised in Portland. He spent his teen years in the Milwaukee area, Milwaukee, Oregon, not Wisconsin. They got one. Yes, it's right outside of Portland. I thought we've done a bonus episode there or something, maybe. Doesn't matter. Either way, he became a part-time seaside resident in his early 20s, says his brother Don, who we'll hear from a lot in this episode. In 1981, he had a son named Kenny, which, again, he had a kid very young. Kenny? Yeah, 16, 20, he had a kid. Then in 1985, he has a daughter named Tasha. Tasha with an E on the end. So, like, Tasha almost, but I think it's Tasha. Now, he worked at a Portland area cleaner, what is it? Oh, a cleaner, I guess, a cleaner filter and computer chip factory he worked at. They made filters and computer chips at this factory. It's got to be a cleaner filter for your computer chip? I don't know. How often does that need to be cleaned? It's inside. I don't know. It's like a software that, like. It clears out, like, your cookies or some shit, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I think this is, like, physical filters. Like 3L? They're making, like, air conditioning filters, yeah. He would always, when it would be slow there and there wasn't a lot of work, he would go to the coast to do commercial fishing. Oh. Which is a crazy job. Now, according to his brother Don, his brother Don's a dentist and has a dental practice in Milwaukee. How about this? They both got doctors. He's in the family. Yeah. Don said of Casey, quote, he was a heck of a fisherman. Oh. Casey loved the outdoors. He'd spend his free time hunting, fishing, skiing, riding motorcycles, camping. Oh, he's a fucking cool guy. He's a party, this guy. Yeah. This is hilarious. Don says something right out of a deodorant commercial. Quote, he worked hard and played hard. Yeah. He didn't let a day go by that he didn't do something exciting. He was a true Oregonian. He's an old spy slayer. This guy's hilarious. Yeah. He's a speed stick kind of a fella. So, although Casey has a couple of problems with the law that we'll talk about as well. Oh. His brother said he was a kind person. He said he met people and made friends at the drop of a hat. We'll find out why he also makes friends like that, too. That's why these two are hanging out together. Yeah. They're both easy going. He said that any rough times he'd been going through seemed to be over, the brother said. He said he'd been doing a lot better the last couple of years. So, we have two people who seem to be doing better than they were before now. Two parents. Two parents, each with two children. Each with a boy and a girl, as a matter of fact. Now, August 10th, 1994, he had some trouble. And this isn't him getting in trouble. This is some trouble finding him. He was apparently. It was about 1 a.m. And he was bicycling home. This is in Seaside. Yeah. And he decided to stop near 10th Avenue and near the river to have a cigarette. Just stop and have a cigarette. Right. A pickup truck full of kids, teenagers, pulled up and jumped him, basically. They all jumped out of the truck and beat the shit out of him. Wow. They beat him severely. They kicked him in the head more than 20 times. They took his wallet and his bicycle and just basically left him. They left him bleeding in the blackberry bushes. What the fuck? No reason. There's a bunch of asshole teenagers decided to roll a guy. Why would you do that? It makes no sense to me either. I don't get it. They were later caught after attacking another bicyclist. So they were just going around whoever they found. They were just attacking people. So he survived the attack, obviously, Casey. But he was in serious condition in the hospital for a while. He was not in good shape. His criminal record got a couple of things. He has convictions for assault and drug dealing, Casey does. He was released from the Oregon State Correctional Institution in 1991 after serving two years of a 10-year drug conviction sentence. That's a hefty one. That's a hefty one. That means you've gotten busted a couple of times and you were selling. So that's what's going on. And they're saying now he hasn't been doing that lately. He hasn't been selling drugs. He's been doing better and working jobs and whatever. So two people with apparently pasts are hanging out together. But nice people that everybody likes and not bad people. Not people that hurt people or anything like that. Casey's brother said he heard the reports that there was people making – that the possible perpetrators here of this murder were making threatening remarks to a bunch of people on the beach that morning. And Brother Don said, if any – if any of them had said anything menacing within Casey's earshot, he likely would have stood up and said bullshit. So he's saying, my brother would have said, go fuck yourself or told these kids where to go, which it sounds like he would have probably. Yeah. I mean, especially if a guy got beat up by a bunch of kids, a couple of kids making some – less than 20 of them, we're going to have some words. But he said that he doesn't seem afraid, which – you might be a little, you know, a little flinchy of any kind of teenagers if you've been pummeled by them in the past. There's a bunch of people around town saying, well, they shouldn't have been out on the beach that late then. Because we find out from where they were that basically they were out on the beach at like 4 a.m. So like an – they were found within an hour of this killing. But they said that, you know, people were saying, well, they shouldn't be out there that late. You're asking for trouble if you're sitting on a beach at 4 a.m. with – you know, your friend, God forbid. Is that where the trouble is? That's where the trouble is apparently. I didn't know. Weird, right? I didn't realize it either. How dare you? I thought the beach was like the happiest place. No, no, no, no. You get away from there or you deserve to be hurt. As soon as the sun goes down, you got to get the fuck off the beach. Sit in your house like a respectable person, you fucking bum. What are you doing enjoying the beach and the weather here? That's bullshit. Waiting for the sun to rise? Fuck you. Crazy. By the way, Casey has a fiancé named – I believe her name is Bonnie also at this point. I can't remember. I'll find out her name in a minute. But he has a fiancé. So what the hell is he doing with some chick out on the beach at 4 a.m.? Yeah. Bonnie would love to know. I don't know about you, but I've been engaged before. And if you come home and go and they say, what were you doing? I was just hanging out with my friend at the beach at 4 a.m. Who's she? Oh, just a chick 10 years younger than me. It's no big deal. You're probably going to get a talking to. I mean, the first question. It's going to be, who's he? And then when you say, a chick 10 years younger than me, 4 a.m. on the beach. Pack your shit, man. You're in trouble. Take the swing back at minimum. Don is super pissed off that people are mad that they were on the beach at 4 a.m. and blaming them for it. The brother, Don. He's like, fuck that. He said, quote, it doesn't make sense or it doesn't make them bad people being awake at 4 a.m. True. True. Because if it was, then I would be a terrible person. You're a fuck. You're a fucking monster. I'm a monster. Finally go to bed when the sun goes down, James. Someone needs to stop me before I can't be stopped anymore. I can't stop myself. That's the problem. Or you could get murdered. Or do a lot of murdering. He also resents the assumptions that the murder was a result of a drug deal gone bad. Because people are saying that because his brother, Casey, had a history. Now, the investigators confirmed that the murders. Do not appear drug-related at all. Now, Don, the brother, wonders whether the murder was actually a result of Casey defending someone else. He said he didn't hurt anyone unless he was backed into a corner. Maybe the murderer said something to Brooke. And he said, hey, leave her. That's what he thinks. That makes more sense. Because in my head right now, he's saying there has to be. Then where the fuck are the people he was defending? I guess if she's right there. It's her. All right. Yeah. A bunch of Casey's friends said that they didn't even realize, because they call him Casey, and the news said Frank. Frank, yeah. They didn't even fucking know it was him for a while. It was dead. It took a few days of people going, no, it's that guy. And they were like, oh, shit. His name is Frank. They had no idea, essentially. So when the media came looking for a reaction from family members, Don said it was really tough to talk about it. He said, if Casey had gone down with a boat fishing, it would have been difficult to accept, but it would have been easier than knowing he was murdered. He said that would have been an act of God, which maybe if there was a typhoon, you could call it that. But other than that, it would be an act of probably somebody's fucking negligence or just, yeah, being piss poor at their job or laziness or something. Or a shitty boat that malfunctioned. But yeah, there's a more than just an act of God. You probably didn't do all your checks then at that point. So. Somebody fucked something up at that point. Now, Dr. Larry here, Brooke's dad, said, my kids were my whole life when we were a family that did everything together. After the death of Brooke here, he said his family had a picnic and he took pieces of Brooke's artwork to give to family members. And he said everyone snagged up her art. Casey's son, Kenny, who was 16 at this point, also lived in Seaside. This works on the same fishing boat dad did he's 16 working on a fucking fishing boat already wow wow um yeah he's okay yeah he said he's bracing well is what don said about the kid he's quote bracing up well he's all right okay those fishermen are pretty weathered they can take a lot fascinating choice of words too they're pretty leathery yeah he's bracing up well some oregon shit there right it's got to be some kind of nautical term for battening down the hatches and shit it's to do with a mast i believe in a storm bracing up good yeah um now don said he was impressed when casey's 12 year old daughter tasha or tasha or however it's pronounced not trying to disrespect there i'm just not sure how to say it uh who lives with her mother in oregon city actually spoke at her father's funeral so dad casey's funeral she spoke and everything which is a really good thing i think it's a really good thing i think it's a really good thing insane for a kid to do it's very brave and the saddest thing you'll ever see in your life yeah don said now that he's absorbed at all he said i'm going from sad to mad and he said i would like to see whoever did this captured he said people don't realize that what they do affects a lot of people it kind of makes you a little bitter yeah if they kill your brother you're going to be bitter that's you know it's normal and you don't want that to happen to That's fucking brazen just to leave the bodies laying there. These are dangerous people. It's crazy. So, by the way, yes, it was Bonnie. That is Casey's fiance's name. The Bonnie situation would have been very explosive to use a Pulp Fiction reference here. So this investigation. Satisfied with Sanka, James. Yeah, instant. So this investigation here. I got my coffee on the outside. Oh, that's Seinfeld. Never mind. Different thing. That's Jerry being angry. And how come my fucking coffee is Jules? Yeah, this is when they're not jerking off the contest. I don't have any coffee. I can't get my coffee on the outside. Different thing. Okay. So this investigation, the police and the district attorneys said they know a lot of which we're not sharing, they told the press. Okay. They said there's a lot of stuff that we've developed that we're not going to comment on. We're restricted by ethics rules. They're just keeping their crime scene close to the vest. So people can't. We're trying to solve this. Exactly. They identify some suspects within 24 hours of discovering the bodies, though. Wow. Two different sets of suspects that they were. They go. They go from one to the other. But they spend a good 24 hours on the first set of suspects that we'll talk about here. Now, physical evidence that they have. They said there was a surprising amount of physical evidence. There were footprints. So it must not have been windy and it didn't rain in an hour. There were shell casings. And the casings are the big break in the case because they're not ordinary casings. They're very specific. They know where they came from. They came from a Calico 9mm. How do they know that? Apparently, it's a specific marking on the bullet or something. So this gun, it fires 9mm rounds, but it is a specific gun that has a 50-round clip in it. Oh, that's why 50-cent love. It's a Calico street sweeper, they call it, basically. That's the nickname of the damn gun here. So that's what they're looking for. So they know that there's a specific weapon that they're looking for that fired these specific bullets. And it's a specific enough weapon where that might help. If they could find out where one of those was sold. Now, they do come up with some suspects right away. There's a security camera mounted on top of one of the local restaurants near the beach. Not a – we think security cameras. Security camera now, you're thinking digital and you can enhance. We're talking grainy, recycled tapes. Yeah. Tapes that have been used for five years just being recycled and they're washed out to shit, basically. When I was robbed at gunpoint in 98, they didn't have cameras and they said they didn't have cameras because the camera quality or the recording quality was terrible anyway. It doesn't help. It never helps. That's what they told the cops. It's true, though. You see that footage and you're like, a guy came in and did that. You can't see any details or anything like that. And this is one of those ones that doesn't even capture it completely. It does every couple seconds. It grabs a frame. Oh, I hate those so much. Yes. Really shitty. Just to see what's going on quickly. Right. So it's almost like a weird flip book if you've ever seen those. So they use these frames along with witnesses who'd seen two men walking away from the beach to try to construct what the fuck happened here. Faces. They seem to point to two men that they knew as petty criminals around town. Got it. So they're like, we know those guys. We know a blonde and a brunette who are both petty criminals who that kind of resembles. So the police go pick these two idiots up. Basically, keep them for about 24 hours of talking to them and trying to figure it out. Then about another 12 hours working through their stories and checking alibis and doing all this type of shit before they realize that these. Those fucking guys didn't do this. They didn't do anything. They didn't do this at all. So we've just spent 36 hours. Wasted. Of the first 48, as you know. Right. Completely wasted on the wrong suspects. Yeah. Which is not great. Yeah. We got 12 hours to go. Let's take a break. This is bad. Yeah. Shit. Now we're fucked. Yeah. So people in Seaside, though, had seen these. This was on the news and on all the newspapers and all that kind of thing. So people said they looked and they said. And that's not the guys that you're saying it is. People said they knew that these guys gate and can tell by their walk who it was. Oh. And they said, you have got the wrong fucking guys here. You have got completely the wrong guys. The guys you're looking for are not even really criminals. They don't really have much of a criminal record. And they weren't even on the radar. The guys that the people around town were talking about. OK. They hadn't even thought about those guys. They weren't even on a suspect list or anybody to talk to. These are other people go in that footage looks like. These guys. So not only does the footage look like this other pair, this pair of gentlemen of young gentlemen. Apparently, for the last day and a half, I've been calling everyone they know and telling them that they murdered two people on the beach. What? Which is crazy. Several friends of the people who are identified by others as being in that video told investigators that they were contacted by one of them within by telephone within a day of the shooting. And during the course of the conversations, this guy said that he and his friend, the other guy that we'll talk about, were going to leave the state. Why? They were on their way out because they killed two people on the beach. Yeah. All right. Quick round of trivia before we get back into the show. No buzzers. No calling in. Here we go. And lastly, you lack that confidence and mental edge. Those are classic signs that your testosterone has been sliding. The good news? So why not take matters into your own hands? Strip off the weight that tanks your testosterone with Bioma. Bioma GLP-1 Booster. So you can enjoy a leaner physique, surging energy, and increased drive. And when asked by the friend, why did you kill two people on the beach, this young gentleman said, quote, for the hell of it. For nothing? Nothing. For the hell of it. Just for shits and giggles, for kicks. So that's interesting. And the investigators say that sounds right because this appears to be unprovoked, whatever happened here. The investigators said it appears to be a motiveless killing. Most crimes are irrational. Okay. Now, this suspect now, placed two calls to his friend and co-worker, a guy named Eric Manziel, after the murders. And this Manziel told police that during the first call, about four hours after the murders, that morning, the guy said, quote, something really big happened. Yeah. That's the way he put it. Something really big happened. What? I killed two people. And he also denied the other guy's involvement. You know, there's a pair here. He said, well, the guy that was with me, he didn't do anything. He told this guy. Then the suspect called this friend back again later that afternoon. And the friend, Manziel, had heard about the bodies found on the beach and said, why'd you do it? And that's when he said, for the hell of it. So he told multiple people for the hell of it, which is very interesting. Now, physical evidence, they sifted through, basically, they sectioned everything off into 45-foot squares. Yeah. And then you could comb it like space, like baseballs, basically, and get whatever you want out of it. It's sand. So they said that they identify the weapon as a nine-millimeter cannonball. calico semi-automatic handgun that's the the weapon they said that there's footprints and cigarette butts as well that they found around here which will be something now several people who they talked to who are acquainted with these suspects who actually called the police and said i think that's them they both say that they smoke that brand of cigarettes and own shoes with similar tread patterns to the ones found there all right which is interesting um and like i said the cigarettes were found consistent with the cigarette butts around there the ones that they smoke now there was some people that basically three people who were on the beach this is in addition to those two guys who we talked about before this is a group of three people said that two young men who resembled the suspects approached that you know a brunette and a blonde approached them on the beach at about 4 a.m while they had a bonfire going according to them the these two suspects mentioned that their television was not working that's why they were out walking around because their tv broke yeah and that they made threatening remarks to them these two suspects had made threatening remarks to the three of them so there's two someone two guys were walking around menacing people on the beach until this happened so our tvs broke i'm gonna kick your ass i'm gonna kick your ass that'd be easy i'm gonna shoot you those are the remarks that they made they're not just weird remarks like threatening remarks like uh we'll talk we'll find out what they were but it was really weird we'll go through the whole thing but it was a real real weird back and forth that they had um so police believe that the suspects had no reason to shoot nims and goza and they believe as we'll find out based on evidence that they modeled the killings depicted in the film and the film in cold blood which is the 1967 movie version of the 1965 truman capote book in cold blood about the two guys who come in and murder a family in a house in nebraska in a house in nebraska but the fact that they didn't know that family and everything like that they it's a thrill killing is what they got nothing out of it exactly so that's what they think this is probably they because as we'll find out why in a minute here but um there's also 9-1-1 tip and they say we know this one suspect has a blonde and the other one has brown hair and another friend called to say that the one of the suspects was known to carry a recently purchased nine millimeter in his green backpack okay uh the affidavit also reveals that police had looked at these two as suspects the same morning of the shootings when they started getting calls but they were wasting their time with other people a 9-1-1 dispatcher received an anonymous call mid-morning identifying the two guys as involved in the killings the caller said the pair was headed to california or mexico which tons of tips come in and when some young person calls and they go hey i know the guys that did it it's these two dudes and they're on their way to mexico right that sounds like a load of shit essentially it's a very common thing to say especially on the west coast absolutely that's where everybody will just run away to mexico like that works uh so let's find out who these suspects are here we go okay bradley charles price is the first he's born december 11th 1974 so he's 22 years old while all this is going on uh he grew up in brookings oregon which is down south there uh kind of along the california border but it's a it's also a harbor fishing kind of a town right now price was a star athlete at brookings high school he was like a really good athlete a football player uh he also wrote poetry brad chuck is a writer bradley price yeah it's very interesting that he writes poetry and plays football those are two things don't usually go together um he also really loved movies like really loved them and would watch the same ones over and over and break them down and really loved movies and he was a really good writer you know i was a big into film type of shit he go he went to the university of oregon for about a year before he dropped out right so he was going pretty damn well for a while and then some weird you know just didn't things kind of fell apart for him um people who knew him called him a quiet outstanding student he was a starter on the brookings harbor high school football team for a while anyway uh he graduated in 93 and attended university of oregon uh a reporter for a newspaper who was a classmate of bradley's while they attended brookings recalled price as a quiet but friendly kid and a good student right okay um he said he was a year ahead of me in school and he always got good grades the circle of friends he had was small but good students the brookings community is shocked it doesn't fit brad's character he said he said many people in brookings believe price was forced into it by the other guy and probably has been murdered by now so the oh what everyone's saying in brookings is he's probably dead the other guy buried somewhere yeah the other guy probably forced him into it and then this guy killed brad because he's a witness and he's you know dumped him in the ocean or something along the way for wow so he said that's what everybody in brookings thinks like that's the way it works um according to this guy uh here mother uh pat said violence is totally out of his character meaning brad's in all of his life he's never even been in a fist fight i've never heard him raise his voice or shout i couldn't have asked for a better kid wow okay his his high school football coach daryl daryl herb said that price was a quote hard worker and had a good attitude oh boy he said that price started as a defensive back as a junior but lost his starting position following a car accident where he was injured and never got it back oh he said quote but he maintained a good attitude throughout the season that shows character yeah it's my locker room guy yeah if you can root for the people who took your job and not be bitter about it and sit there and hope they suck then that's that shows character um so that's the good of bradley yeah there's also the bad um he claimed to some of his friends that he dropped out of the university of oregon because he quote lost focus and started to do less well in school and was going to drop out and go back but he wanted to protect his grade point average so while he was fucking up he didn't want to do it he had a 3.14 gpa and he didn't want to mess that up he wanted to keep it um so uh he also though would admit that he he was he was uh majoring in english literature but he also said that he'd been using smoking a lot of weed and doing a bunch of acid too oh and acid which will make you lose focus hard to focus on anything when you're on acid unless it's shiny or sparkly um so brad stayed briefly with his older sister in crescent city after he dropped out of oregon there um like i said a lot of the kids that know him especially from school referred to him as the all-american boy and his mom said just a sweet kid never did i never raised his voice never in a fist fight he's got a sister his older sister has a completely different view of him we fought like cats and dogs well his older sister's 30 so she's eight years older than him so it wasn't really fighting it's what came later her name is brandy eller and she said that brad once threatened to kill her seven month old son what i'll kill your baby is a crazy threat uh outrageous and talked to her on several occasions about quote shooting someone in the head what's happening there i don't know uh she said that her brother quote was being portrayed as some kind of nice all-american kid and he isn't i just want people to know that there's a side of him that my mother and other relatives won't talk about so she's like he fucking did it my brother i know he's a scumbag which is wild she said that she won't even say it she loves him too much but i fucking hate that guy i hate him he's a dick um she said she was shocked she sounds like jennifer gray and ferris bueller at this point like she's like yeah that's what she sounds like but again but i don't think ferris gray threatened to kill our ferris gray ferris bueller threatened to kill jennifer gray's baby that would have been a totally different thing you know if that would have been odd a real strange twist to that story that's in ferris gray's day off ferris gray's day off yeah oh man so she said she was shocked that ferris gray's day off yeah oh man so she said she was shocked that ferris gray's day off yeah oh man so she said she was shocked that into could be attached to such a crime but that she could believe brad was involved oh i buy it she said she believes it she said she believes that the district attorney is right when he called the murders thrill killings she said i know some people think he might have been forced into doing it but i don't think so she's just throwing him right under the bus and then getting in starting it up and going back and forth just running him over thrilling i think my brother's good for it i think he could do it i really do uh She said, I think he was willing all the way. He mentioned to me before wondering what it would be like to, quote, shoot someone in the head. I can believe he did it just to see what it was like. I'm talking now because people must know the truth about Brad. He was a real good kid in high school, but he changed a lot once he went away to college. He was into drugs, doing them and selling them. Oh, how about that? So she blows up the entire narrative that his family put out of like, no, not our guy. Exactly our guy. She said she hasn't talked to Brad in more than two years, not since he threatened to kill her then seven-month-old son. He said he told me he, meaning the son, would be an easy target and he just wanted to do it. Yeah, seven-month-old, they won't put up much of a fight. I'll tell you that much. You could just kill him. They'll think you're giving them Cheerios. They have no idea. They don't know the difference. She said, I kicked him out and haven't seen him since. Okay. Now, his stepmother. His stepmother, Sue, was quoted by saying Brad was mean to her and my daughter, mean to me and my daughters, she said. She also referred to him as a daddy's boy, which is very funny. There's a lot of resentment. Like, they resent that the father paid attention to him and the sister seems to resent it, too. I mean, later on, it makes sense that she would not like him, but it's very funny. Daddy's boy. The stepmother could not be reached for comment. However, the sister said that her father would do all he could to protect Brad. So would family members in Brookings. Good Lord. She's saying that. She said, my mom, grandmother, and other relatives know Brad wasn't the perfect kid they all claim he was, but they won't admit it. They won't talk about it. I think they would go to great lengths to hide him. They're even saying they're aiding and abetting now. Wow. Great lengths. Great lengths. Mom always believed he was perfect, but he isn't. And she is a ride or die for this complete fuck up. The sister went on to say that she once had a photograph of Brad with her two sons, Holden and Brandon, both of them nine years old. Quote, he had his arms around them, holding his finger formed like a gun pointed at their head. Not a rabbit ears. Yeah. A gun to a child's head. When I got. Mad at him. I tore him out of the picture. I wish I still had that photo. Of her. That's Brad did that. Brad did that. Yeah. Okay. Apparently. Now, a little more from his loving sister. With her as your PR, as your publicist, you really can't go wrong. Yeah. Jesus Christ. She should be a district attorney this broad. Like, I'm ready to convict him after this opening statement. Sounds like a bad guy. Fuck him. She added that when he was young, Brad would throw a. Tantrum if he didn't get his way. He was bang his head onto the floor until he got his way. Quote, unquote, quote, he would break things and throw things around the house. She said he did this till he was 10 or 11. She also claimed that he hit her and kicked her until he was about 12 or 13. After that, however, when he began high school, they started to get along well. Maybe because he took his energy out on football. I'm not sure that that's the type of kid that football is good for. Well, any sport, really. Something to just focus. Fuck. But he needs to bang into things. He's one of those kids. He's one of those slam bang kids, they call him. He's got to be like, ah, and hit that. And that's how he gets his energy out. Wrestle with football. Yeah, wrestling will take it out of you. Just the fucking losing weight will take it out of you. Kid will be like, I just dropped eight pounds to make weight. I was in the sauna. I don't feel good. Spitting in a bottle and you don't even dip. Yeah, disgusting. But then he became, quote. But then he became verbal. He became verbally abusive. His stepfather once told me, Brad isn't happy unless he's hurting someone or causing them pain. His stepdad said that? I can see him doing something violent like this. Not because he was mad, but just to see what it would be like. So, a ringing endorsement from his older sister. Just a ringing endorsement there. Yeah, it doesn't look good. Now, his only scrapes with the law for Bradley Price. He has no. He's 25. He's 22. And his only problems with the law are littering. He got a littering ticket. And underage possession of alcohol. Who cares? Yeah. How much littering do you got to do to get a ticket for it? It depends. If you're a teenager and they want to break your balls or something, they'll, they can. And who knows if he mouthed off. The guy said, pick that up. And he said, I'm not picking. I don't know what you're talking about. And he said, okay, here's your ticket. Who knows? But underage possession of alcohol. Who gives a shit? We all could have got caught for that. A trillion times. Who cares? They said he drifted up the coast to the North Coast to Seaside, which is where it started to go wrong for him once he got here. According to his sister, again, his PR agent here, he moved to Seaside to be closer to his older brother, who lives in Seaside and Astoria's two places. He said he spent a short time with me before I kicked him out. He really changed after he went off to college. I've been told he was selling drugs and doing a lot of drugs in Seaside. That's what she said. He is also described by a member of the police department as this is a real succinct way to put it. Quote, an estranged college kid that sat around and drank Robitussin to get high. Yikes. That is very specific. A strange college student is a terrible phrase. Estranged. Like college broke up with him. Yeah. Not even like they. He broke up with college. Yeah. It was like abandoned him. Yeah. An estranged college kid that drank Robitussin. And the one word summary that a lot of people have for him, including the cops, based on his whole little profile here, is follower. Oh. Brad's a follower, period. He is not a leader. He is a follower. Lost and follower. That's not good. He is a follower. And so he needs someone to follow. And in February 96, he found a friend to follow. Oh, boy. And this is pathetic because this kid's 19. He's three years younger than him. Right. When you're 22, you don't follow someone who's not even allowed to buy alcohol. Right. Get the fuck out of here. What do you follow them to? The arcade? Because they can't get drunk. You can't buy scratchers. I'm not following you. This is crazy. So this friend he meets is Jesse Carl McAllister. He's born December 30th, 1977. So he's 19. now he's described he's a real interesting guy here um a friend of his said he did well in school he never really got in fights and he always did his work he attended and attended seaside high school as a freshman um no extracurriculars or involvement he just went to class uh then he went to uh to bridges a school called bridges in 93 94 following his freshman year at seaside high school uh bridges was a five district alternative education program for kids who fucked up in regular school you knew that's what it was called you knew that's what it was called bridges yeah you knew that you know the b school yeah around my bridges the dipshits into regular regular working environment where i grew up it was boces that's what it was b-o-c yeah E-S and it was basically all the kids who got kicked out yeah or dropped out or really wanted to be welders that's where they went they did like vocational shit was it an acronym i think it was yeah i forget what ours was but it was an acronym and then we had polaris that was for the pregnant girls and yeah for the pregnant yeah it's an acronym an acronym of things that won't happen yeah it's an acronym of like helping make better no it's just a storage you know it's it's a storage place for 16 year olds who have who smoke cigarettes in class that's what that's what it is basically this is a place this was a church that kids would go uh during the morning uh monday through friday when they don't have church services it was just a way for the church to get paid for a building that was unoccupied at the moment use their space the kids get somewhere to go without getting arrested it's all great perhaps because they're here monday through friday maybe they'll come back on sunday and throw some money in the pond yeah right oh so mcallister completed the equivalent of his sophomore year at bridges um then he returned to school a little later but didn't get any credits or anything so didn't really uh do anything school officials will not comment on you know anything he did but they people do not believe that he earned either a high school diploma or a ged mcallister um so after bridges is when he had his first brush with the law here sure uh he spent time in the klatzup county jail and he was in the jail for a year and a half and he was in the jail for a year and a half and he was in the jail for a year and a half and he was in the jail for a year and a half and he was in the jail after beating up three people on the beach and seaside oh beating up three people a brawl on the beach is fucking nuts but him versus three people i don't know who he beat up but he beat up three people uh someone who knows him said quote he told me he liked jail he said he enjoyed it uh okay uh wow uh so he did that now his personality they said during jail he said he enjoyed it okay uh wow uh so he did that now he said during the jail sentence intensified the jail sentence intensified the jail sentence intensified one of his friends said quote he was like a one of his friends said quote he was like a one of his friends said quote he was like a real power tripper real power tripper real power tripper said he had a reputation for fighting but he would also kick people out of his apartment at the drop of a hat he's just real his temper was just wild there's a hair trigger on him uh this friend said i'd sit there with the guys and they would talk about beating people up all the time he was constantly getting in fights uh when this friend was asked this friend would ask them to stop talking about fighting she said quote they couldn't do it they would say you just don't understand the testosterone is that what jesus christ man yeah that's that's what it is he's a bad boy james yeah there's an energy you have when you're 19 about fighting that's just that's a thing that happens when you're 19 it's especially dependent on where you're from yeah it's frustrating because you you're an adult you can you can die for a country at that time but you can't have a swig of beer so there's like a frustration level yeah unsure where you fit in it goes from pretty much 15 to yeah you know but once you're 19 and you're done with high school if you're not going to college it's like then i'm an adult if i'm not in school then i'm a big boy yeah totally well i mean like this this this fighting for no reason this goes from 15 yeah and ends sometimes never yeah sometimes sometimes the old dude that just loves to fight just loves to fight or he beats up his wife or he did whatever that it can go on forever sometimes it burns out in your early 20s yeah and sometimes it burns out in your early 20s sometimes it never stops it's crazy so now there's some people that they don't like that don't like him and have some things to say about him too um the local police sergeants called him a violent kind of gang banging type of kid who was not afraid of anything gang banging gang banging i don't know what kind of gangs they have in seaside oregon among 7 000 people but i am not sure uh so uh the manatees are not afraid of anything they're not afraid of anything they're not afraid of anything they're not afraid of anything they're not afraid of anything they're very exclusive yeah so he uh he already had a felony on his record which is burglary in the first degree and um which is interesting so now he's a 19 year old convicted felon as well and they said that he's got which hang on to that for a second because that'll come up he's got a temper as well like i said this temper is wild they said he's got a temper and mood swings that he has a hard time disguising and he's got a temper and mood swings and he's got a temper and mood swings basically um they said basically he would he would fight all the time huh he also spent time in jail for assault okay um another different time is besides the three people on the beach a school friend of his talking about the murder said quote i kind of think he did it hey thanks appreciate appreciate that i kind of think he did it yeah this young lady says this they went to school for a couple years she wished her name remain anonymous for her own safety yeah uh other friends say that while mcallister started out amicably with people uh something changed along the way uh one friend named patrick whistler uh said we were close when we were younger in first through fifth grade well everyone's different in fifth grade everyone's close first through fifth grade yeah everyone's friends the whole when you have a birthday party in first grade you give an invitation to everyone in the whole fucking class the whole class you don't discriminate uh he remembers the two of them playing in a fort on mcallister's relative's property after school however when mcallister mcallister moved to washington with his mother after finishing grade school they lost touch he said he saw mcallister or mcallister hitchhiking through seaside around christmas of last year oh he said it was the first time he'd seen them since their freshman year of high school he said we talked a bit and he said that was the last he heard of him until the news do you know that he's wanted this new thing as a murder suspect um he one of the friends said i mean he did have a preoccupation but with violence but she said he always treated his friends well and quote he was a super nice guy okay well wow that's another thing with women is they can see some guy do some crazy shit and then go he's a super nice guy he he was nice to me yeah i mean yes he was a super nice guy he was a super nice guy he was a super nice guy he was a super nice i just watched him curb stomp an old man but there's something to me he's just so sweet when i look in his eyes i can see what's really in there and that's pretty nice guy sweetness and niceness his boss here mcallister worked at a bunch of seaside restaurants as a cook oh just like brooke did yeah um he worked at moby's seafood and chowder house oh uh owned of course by the bald-headed techno guy moby no that would be amazing yeah come come get my chowder uh in downtown seaside yeah uh his boss rocco hey rocco tell me about it over here rocco said he was a hard worker always on time this guy yeah that's what he said that's what a hard worker is james always on punctual well when you run a restaurant that is a hard worker well yeah but it shows up for their shift is like oh my god that's the minimum he's a hard worker he's like a monk basically like he's a he works he's still that's really that's so minimum showed up for he showed up for most of his shifts my god stalwart the vast majority of people show up for their shifts and then just spend that eight hours trying to not do their shift right not doing it dicking off well in the restaurant industry even that half the time that you don't know when they're even showing up in the kitchen they have to show up or they get fired but all right waiters there's a cook your shift we can tell when you're not doing your job well yeah you know what i mean hey someone's looking in the window hey in there hey guys what the fuck's my food i got a table bitching table eight are assholes and i'm starting to not blame them they've been here two hours you guys can we feed them oh god he said though a sound work ethic was not enough for this guy for mccallister he said he was subject to mood changes temperamental when he was mad he let you know it oh so that's how it goes yeah so he's got a temper is what it is um he said sometimes he would simmer one day mccallister was brooding over a situation with his girlfriend so rocco told the other employees he looks mad enough to kill when that happened he said later on quote i wasn't shocked about the murders i kept the guy employed who i'm pretty sure was capable of murder i just kept him anyway that's the restaurant business is fucking baffling there's not been one person apart from a man's mom who has said i don't think they could have everybody's just like yeah i could see it i could see it that's exactly how rocco probably said it i could see it i guess but that's how that's how i do like that he uses a cooking term for the i saw him simmering one day and then he was simmering he didn't use that term the newspaper did oh okay you should have used it that would have been great so this is fucking in the restaurant business too if a guy can get food out on time if he doesn't murder in the restaurant we're good because it's hard to get a guy who shows up every day and does what he's supposed to do it's too hard so mccallister um like we said he's the one who called all his friends and told him what he did he's the guy making phone calls um which is amazing the only aspect of his potential involvement in the crime that surprises rocco his boss was his subsequent behavior he said quote sounds like he was almost proud of what he did calling people telling people um he said that um i'm getting more and more astonished at his audacity more and more it's it is crazy that he just bragged about it like he's proud of it but then why are you running if you're so proud well yeah proud of it and wanting to be in prison forever it's two different things i thought you liked jail so yeah thought you liked jail um then i like this this is amazing rocco he's gonna break down the philosophical shit here for us i love this here he said that the killings might have been for his sense of self-worth he said he might have been lacking in some a guy named rocco telling you about your self-worth he said he was always known for his intimidation yeah he said he got older though started hanging out with older people and he discovered that he couldn't intimidate as easily so maybe he needed this yeah just gotta prove himself to these older folks yeah he said he may have decided quote maybe if i kill a couple people they'll be scared of me i guess his dark side was darker than most jesus rocco so it's a big leap rocco of wow proving your self-worth to others well yeah he really was like let me break it down psychologically i took a year of psychology and community college you know one year clats up but it's all right i know things find out where rocco's from because he's a fucking horrifying man fucking rocco uh his other friend again this is the guy he went to school with uh he says that yes mcallister probably possessed a brooding aspect to his personality uh he isn't completely convinced that he had a hand in murdering two people he said and yet he's not so sure he can't tell i could see it i could i could see it that's what i just i could see what i goes right there you know he said quote i hate to stereo i hate to but it's like he could, he was like that. that what do you hate to that he said if he wanted something bad enough he could work hard enough to get it but then you could also see the other side of him where it was like i don't care he said when this guy said when he learned that mcallister was a suspect in the double homicide he said it rattled him he said quote it was bad yeah questions popped into my head was it for money was it for drugs was he on drugs um though he said he hasn't he said i i won't say that he did it for sure because he hasn't been convicted of anything quote innocent until proven he says that's what it says yeah but uh there's a lot of a lot of people that could see it that's they could see it now just like price there's a lot of other people who say he's a fucking angel no what are you talking about the guy is an angel yes um absolutely uh his cousin here katie larson said that uh quote i think it's completely wrong there is no way he did it i think the only way he did it was for self-defense now that's what they said despite the fact that he's called like a bunch of people to brag about it yeah and yeah it's pretty sure they did it there's no weapon on them how do you self-defense shoot two people in the fucking forehead exactly they could have taken the weapon and thrown it in the sea or you know a seagull could have came and taken it for later you never know they quit drama they'll eat anything it's people in the forehead in the forehead now a little bit about brad and jesse here now that we we have them set up as these two characters brad the kind of quasi all-american boy football player mccallister the dropout alternative school guy and all that kind of thing so june of 1996 brad and jesse move into an apartment together okay brad is the older one jesse is the younger more aggressive one apartment and seaside together by summer of 97 they were still living together so they lived together for a year at this point um everybody said mccallister is an aggressor in every situation uh brad once brad later on will say his personality was really violent and he was not terribly conscious of the world around him oh that's brad talking um he had been in several fights in brad's presence mccallister had told price and other people that he wanted to be a hitman at some point and according to the later testimony mccallister had been harboring a desire to kill another person for about two years really into it really wanted to kill somebody this we've had this happen about 15 times in this show where someone thought hitman was a job that you like crazy apply for yeah not something you kind of fall into in some weird way because you're in the mafia anywhere guys they really do i look for them in high school i saw the marine guys bothering everybody i saw these people that i never saw you know a couple of guineas and suits going i mean you know no benefits but there's money in it nice suits too i mean come on we got the best food i'll tell you what hey money food and respect don't listen to this fucking marine guy hey you guys got bullshit food come on what are you talking about this guy they ain't gonna give you nothing we got the freshest fucking bread sandwiches every goddamn day you're gonna pay terribly to kill these mush they got fucking mush these guys and they gotta kill they don't even fucking know who they are these fucking guys are you kidding me gotta go over there fly over here eat shitty food kill people get we'll show you who he is we'll walk you right up the fuck out of here no way no way this is steve cavino from cavino and rich all right quick round of trivia before we get back into the show but we're doing it differently this time every guy listening right now you're a contestant no buzzers no calling in just answer honestly to yourself here we go you got a belly and a little chest that won't go away no matter what you try gassed by the middle of the afternoon no drive left in the tank and lastly you lack that confidence and mental edge fellas here's the thing those are classic signs that your testosterone's been sliding and nothing drags it down faster than extra weight the good news emerging research suggests that getting rid of it may actually be more effective than trt so why not take matters into your own hands strip off the weight that tanks your testosterone with bioma glp1 booster every serving is packed with science-backed and third-party tested ingredients that crank up your natural glp1 production so you can enjoy a leaner physique surging energy and increased drive visit bioma.health slash glp1 and use code cr show to get 15 off your first order that's bioma.health slash glp1 code cr show for 15 off um so anyway uh that's what's what's happening there um now july of 1997 mcallister was still employed as a cook at moby's seafood and chowder house and brad price was a clerk at video warehouse oh video store guy he works at the video store um now speaking of movies they have a movie that they love and that is in cold blood it is from 67 they made a remake in like 2000 something but this is the 1967 version of this story called in cold blood the remake was it just in cold yeah in cold blood oh okay yeah yeah no it's they made in cold blood and then in cold blood again um so yeah this is uh you know vhs tape they're renting over and over again 1967 i can't remember if that one's in color i think it's black and white i can't i honestly can't remember if that one's in color i saw it in you know when i was 10 or something i don't remember but i think it and i can't remember if it's black and white 67 most of the films were colored by then but there was still a couple in black and white um but it's a the book is awesome um and there's been a lot a lot a lot a lot of killers like serial killers who this is the first thing that got them hard was in cold blood yeah btk read it a hundred times i loved it really loved it loved it loved it loved it because it was also in the in his area yeah you know i didn't see the movie i don't think i may have but i didn't i for sure didn't read the book but i know the story uh and the story itself is the most horrifying fucking thing how that could yeah how that could make you they love it that's what gets them off wow that's how you know your brain works yeah if you read that and you're not i mean you can be horrified you could be interested you can be titillated but you got to be a little horrified that's the thing if you're not horrified terrifying if you're like yeah more that's you got a problem so one of the first ones that was like nationwide known of like uh uh more or less a boogeyman that killed the whole fucking family right yeah there was henry lee lucas before that there was a whole bunch there was tons of them it happened all the time there was like in the in the fucking heartland like that where nothing happens he just wrote a really good book about it is why because he's a good writer and wrote a book and that's that's what gave it such run it's because it's a good book otherwise it would have just been by the wayside no one would know shit about it uh the story by the way is dick hickok and perry smith there were two drifters in november of 59 they broke into a kansas farmhouse they were looking for a state they heard there was a safe full of money there that was not there um so instead of getting money they just murdered all four members of a family for no reason and then went where jimmy uh where did mexico to mexico yeah how about it uh according to records mccallister and price brad and jesse or jesse and brad in that case respectively rented in cold blood at least four times in the month before the murders kept renting it um so that's interesting four times in less than 30 days renting the same movie they were into it um the other thing is the gun mccallister had wanted a gun for a long time he was trying to get a gun now he's a 19 year old felon yeah so he can't he's under 21 and he's a felon so strike one strike two um no way to get through it but what he did is uh about two weeks before the murders he had brad purchased the weapon for him who's not a felon and he's over 21 he got a calico nine millimeter at a store expensive weapon in it it is um and uh yep it's you know 50 round magazine all that kind of thing i'll just read this is from the newspaper uh investigators from the klatsop county major crime team believe a calico nine millimeter uh was used to murder frank uh nims and gabriella goza the firearm holds 50 rounds per magazine according to sky of skies gunsmithing in astoria the pistols which are awkward and tend to jam weigh about two and a quarter pounds when empty and three and a quarter pounds when loaded the 16 inch semi-automatic pistol has a six inch barrel and many come with a collapsible gunstock oh so all those it's like a tech nine exactly it's a tech nine which don't work for shit either they're the worst they're the worst every rap song you could tell they never used one because they would be like this tech nine sucks and i had to throw it in the gutter because it broke that would be what they'd all they'd be fucking singing i had one it's an in a tech nine that's why they call it yeah tech like the water guns they made the water gun people made real guns i thought that was crazy you remember those in the 80s the greatest water guns ever it's crazy it has this long ass mag for no reason because every three rounds you're clearing the chamber it's the biggest piece of shit ever those intertech water guns ruled the world till super soaker arrived they were battery operated remember you had to put batteries in them and they were like they'd be like automatic water guns you just hold the trigger down it was like an uzi yeah and shit and then super soaker came out and it was like okay well it's not automatic but holy fuck well maybe they got water inside child over with this maybe that water and all inside all these pistols and that's why they don't fucking work anymore maybe maybe that uh so they said others are equipped with a fixed wooden butt so this is a very specific gun yeah um now the seller of the gun said that this is amazing um he knew that this was a sham happening before him oh brad didn't come in by himself and buy the gun and all that he said quote words were said that it was clearly mcallister's gun mcallister cannot own a gun because he was on probation or something and he was underage and a felon but he said obviously this guy was buying a gun for his friend but he let him do it anyway wow good job asshole so july 11th three days before the murders here uh they need some ammo they need ammo um mcallister asks price to buy ammunition for the gun and he does so he buys him the ammo and then the two of them go to a local cemetery to test fire this gun they're firing guns in a fucking cemetery which is the dumbest place because there's no quieter place right than that why would you go to the quietest place and fire guns off it is interesting how much room that land has and how there's never anybody there so i guess that but it's always on the perimeter the population is always on the perimeter of the perimeter of the perimeter of the there's nobody there it's a huge area where no one is i can't i'm not fucking in the cemetery i'm not hanging out in the cemetery that's just weird but some people love that shit whatever so um yeah so he buys him the gun and then that's what they did they took it to a cemetery and they test fired it yeah okay now then after that they have a gun they have the bullets they've been watching fucking in cold blood over and over so they basically were like well let's find somebody to shoot here we go um in the leak weeks leading up to this what they did is they would cruise beach areas in mcallister's car which is a 77 impala which is a huge giant shit box yeah the picture it's bad it's a big boat and it's a shitty one in bad shape it's a crappy car it's got to be close to the end of that run until i think started remaking them in like fucking o2 or whatever there's something like that yeah it has to be yeah that's the end of that shit it's a bad car so they drove the coast looking for people and that's what they did um yeah it's it's very fucking interesting one of mcallister's friends said i didn't really think that he would go to such an extreme right so he was talking about going around looking for people to shoot but i didn't think he'd actually do it yeah they said that um this one friend a young lady said based on what she heard from others who saw mcallister that night that mcallister was going to shoot people and he was going to shoot people and he and price may have been hanging out with nims and goza that night he said i she said i think they were drinking together okay um but prior to that night mcallister's not a big drinker she said conditions of his release from jail and probation included a ban on drinking and smoking weed so he hadn't been drinking that much now she said she wasn't aware that mcallister knew either nims or regularly because they work directly across the fucking street from each other these restaurants are right here the pizza place and mobis are right across the street from each other yeah they get off work at the same time probably go to the same groups and gatherings of people and probably have run into each other they're aware of each other likely has to be so two days after the murders police go to their apartment and knock on the door mcallister and price they're gonna kick the door down here uh 359 ninth avenue number five and they're not there they're gone pretty much everything is gone in the apartment except a few things uh they find a non-functioning television at the residence remember he said his tv didn't work right a non-functioning television uh they find shoe boxes which have footwear with treads similar to the ones that they found at the crime scene also in the apartment um and they said a vehicle belonging to brad price remained parked outside mcallister's 77 and polished shit box was missing and the apartment appeared to have been hastily abandoned yeah it's like close taking is the best car of the two uh that's the reliable one yeah who keeps the shoe boxes back then that's i don't know if it's not a collectible shoe you don't yeah the shoe box i'm not getting some new jordans or something so now they have to go on a manhunt now the fbi and the police are and the local police believe because that later on the fbi will be involved they believe they're traveling in the 77 gray chevy and paula oregon license plate vgl 036 all right so mcallister and price are believed to be still carrying the murder weapon so hey approach with caution yeah um one of the cops said they are very dangerous we have every reason to believe that mr mcallister and mr price still had this weapon with them frightening a 50 round magazine in this thing jesus so the fbi is involved um and because they appeared to have left the state at least you know have reason to believe they've left the state so that's when the fbi gets involved uh the fbi spokesman said we've offered our assistance and um you know it's a large-scale thing and if we have to look all over the country the klatsop county police can't find them so um yeah they said we've obtained a federal warrant for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution uh there are rumors that they're in idaho and there's also rumors that they are that's because that's where his dad brad price's dad is the one that will do anything for him daddy's boy and then uh either that or california or mexico those are the three rumors going around that they friends have said there's a a bank teller that says they came driving the getaway car through the bank uh in newport with price driving california no no uh in newport oregon oregon got it yeah um so they were able to flee basically and this is what the prosecution the prosecutor said the da said they were able to flee because they had a 36-hour head start yeah we looked at the wrong guys for 36 hours getting somebody else right said if we looked right at them we could have caught them before they left while they were still making phone calls but instead we brought two other guys in there and got nothing um he said that um you know the investigators suspected price and mccaskey and they said they were able to flee because they later on he said that was when we suspected them we did not have arrest warrants for them either when we first suspected them um they had to wait until uh some other people from the beach picked them out of lineups photo lineups that's how they were able to get the warrant basically uh so they said they've received several tips and they're checking out other shit main thing to think here though this is the important part everybody the beach is still safe go down there spend all your money that you can by the way regardless of how many bodies are on it that beach is so safe it's safe rosemary baker monaghan who's the president of the seaside city council said i walk the prom regularly i'm fine yeah she said she points out that there were 19 killings in the port portland metro area recently while the seaside shootings constitute the first murder case so it's much safer here yeah you know so uh you said although the recent crime hasn't derailed her routine she recommends everyone take precautions when you walk regardless of time of day or location this isn't a beach thing or a seaside thing this is just in in general she said you have to be aware of your personal surroundings society as a whole is less safe than when i was a kid okay beyond the double homicides local impact perceived uh or perceived impact on safety she said she's concerned about the event's indication of the state of society in general she said if this sort of tragedy is happening in seaside it's saying to me that it's everywhere you know because if i can see it that must mean everybody else sees it too this will probably be the last place it turns up so when it does turn up here just stay because everywhere else is bedlam it's all fucked out anyway so you know your mind when you see what else is happening we'll all die together is what i'm saying you come over here let's die together we'll just stay here and die yep uh a former employee of the washington prison system here roger maxwell who lives there said quote the unfortunate part is that uh is that kind of behavior is hitting seaside we're used to having it in seattle tacoma olympia area where i live every day there's a homicide no there's not sometimes things are kind of catching there's not i hate that there's not 365 homicides a fucking year in seattle at any time ever baltimore didn't even fucking hit that in the like it's not happening there was higher ones with bigger cities yeah it's not a big enough city to have those kind of numbers generally so um they said maxwell said he made the trip here multiple times each summer for more than 30 years and he's not going to be assuaged by some double homicide i'm not happening he said this is a nice resort area not keeping me away that's right he said i know nothing about the victims but it's damn sad that somebody who may just be out enjoying life is going to get shot in the head they said while adult crime has decreased in general over the last few years yes in the 90s crime went down a lot youth crime is up said uh referring to these statistics if there's something we can do to interrupt this trend that is something that the council maybe need to think of as a policy policy making body i'm not sure what we could do but i want to start the dialogue we need to change this attitude that life isn't special those children obviously didn't have an appreciation of how dear those lives were the other guy said he believed that the murderers probably have been dealt a poor hand this is the prison system guy who worked in prison he said the suspects probably had a lousy life up to this point he said you know it's just the way it is that's just a fact probably based on their own decisions too though which is wild totally um so they said that uh one guy here uh estimates that city of seaside and clatsop county will have spent more than one million dollars on this case by the time it's all said and done and they said we're going to go on as a society that's falling apart by dealing with the problem after the fact he said we need to have prevention teachers can identify these children in kindergarten and first grade can they yeah but we can't kill them what do we do put them down that's the problem unless you take them out of their environment and put them in a much better one and then give them therapy for 15 years they're fucked by that and they can't because one of them was a star football player and the other one was close with everybody kindergarten to fifth grade yeah those teachers would have missed these two for sure that's absolutely right they said that uh wow this person said mccallister is a young man who is definitely headed in the wrong direction he's just shot two people in the head so probably he said we're more than happy to give them that direction now no expense to them no expense to them no expense to them no expense to them no expense will be spared in giving him that direction will somehow feel better if we put jesse mccallister in prison now this i got to agree with you won't spend a fucking penny on these kids when they're little nobody will nobody will there's no fuck they've gotten rid of all these programs that you think go on they're all gone it's to the bone and worse they're shit and worse yeah they don't give a fuck no but then if they kill somebody we will spend 10 million dollars on this trial to put them in prison as we should murderers in prison but where the fuck was that we could save so much fucking money if we just put a little bit of it here but then people go but that's my tax dollars that they don't realize that their tax dollars are being spent later anyway but that's for like vengeance and they feel good about that a kid reading that's that's boring a murderer getting the death penalty that i want to see that's what people do 90 percent of prison stay people people that stay long periods of time 90 percent didn't graduate high school that is a day what is it the extent the extended state prisoners the residence in staff yeah the residence in members yeah 90 percent didn't graduate high school that's not a coincidence it's not it's not a coincidence i mean go through ask everybody in prison find out their lives it's not a bunch of people who are on the fucking dean's list and then just snap that's not really what's in there for the most part so the that council person said i don't know what the answer is but i think the dialogue needs to start everyone has to participate in the solution um she said you can't legislate the solution parents and schools and youth agencies have to get involved so there's rewards here by the way weeks go by they don't find these kids we're talking by august 21st yeah now they're trying to get rewards a month and a week have gone by these two are like jerk offs this is not they should be able to catch these idiots they're really good at eluding police evidently they really are and apparently too they can't get a reward that they want they have a goal of a twenty five thousand dollar reward and they've only raised twelve thousand five hundred dollars um how hard is it to find us a 77 impala too how many of those are on the road in 1997 not a lot not only that if you're one of these local businesses wouldn't it behoove you to have these two people that are scaring the shit out of the tourists caught i'd be ponying up on them for this fucking reward um you can probably start at every auto parts store between there and everywhere in the country they're gonna need to yeah they're definitely gonna need a couple of things distributor cap over here and fucking spark plugs over here so stop the violence a reward fund designed to encourage tips that could lead to catching these two fucking idiots has stalled at twelve thousand five hundred dollars so they said our goal is twenty five hundred or twenty five thousand dollars one local business is hoping to boost the funding for these two people so they said we're gonna have to start a fund by hosting hoops for help so they'll have a bunch of people playing uh basketball and they said we'll sell hot dogs and soda for a dollar fifty with all the proceeds going to the fund Wow. They said, we netted $700 in the last week. So they have $13,200 raised. That's a lot of money, too, back then. Yeah. They made $500 on hoops for help or whatever it was. So that's nice. They said that the event brought in $358, another thing they did here. And they said, I wish we had better news for the victims' families, but here's the money. You'd quote, you do what you can do. Hoops for help. How about money for murderers? Let's catch them. What are we? There's two people dead on the beach. That's frightening. Cash for killers. Yeah. Cash for killers. Get a ring to it. The Ks and everything. The kuh sound. Yeah. Then they said, again, they said the goal is to raise $25,000. Now they got up to between $14,000 and $15,000 by mid-September. So it's very slowly getting toward $25,000. If they're on the lam another year, they might raise the money. They might get there. Yeah. Might get there. Now, about the reward, the police chief said, the only way they'll get it is if I have McAllister and Price in my hands. So it's, you know, I got to be caught here. They have to be caught. A local business is taking the chamber's urgings to heart by putting together a fundraiser for more money here to do this. So they're trying their best. August 14th, 1997, though, there is an article here that says Manhunt reaches lull. It's a bad word. Lull. Yeah. They have nothing. They're both charged with two counts of aggravated murder. Wow. And they've been missing a month now. So, yeah, one of the police department people said, we have received no leads, no phone calls, nothing. We have no idea where they are. No one. And the FBI is looking for them, too. No one can find them. The family hires a private investigator. Wow. I believe Frank Nims' family hired a private investigator. And he said he hopes that, you know, that the police will pool resources with him. That's all. He's like, you know, I'm trying myself. They have a couple of leads. One of them was one of the mothers came forward and said she believed her son had headed for Idaho where his father lived. That's Brad Price's mother. Investigators had no way to know if they drove, flew, stepped on a cruise. Yeah. Pre-9-11, you didn't need to have done anything. You could slip by the airport with a fake name. You can have a shitty fake ID. They don't care. You can't go to Idaho, though, when all you have is a 50-round mag. You are the least armed person there. No, you're a pussy there. Yeah. They won't even let you join a militia with that. You may as well be unarmed, for fuck's sake. Yeah. Get out of there. Good Lord. So we don't know if they're carrying false IDs. And they said then some rumors started to fly. The more time there is, the more people will start to fester like a boil and a sore. And they'll figure out. Weird rumors. They start saying, OK, Gabrielle goes to Brooke here. There's a whole theory that the murders weren't random, but they were actually something that someone had tried to abduct Brooke for ransom because her family is prominent. And it went wrong. So that was a big rumor around town. But everybody, don't worry. Everything is fine. The cops have a laptop now, so they're going to solve it. Oh, great. Huge article. Talking about how now they have a laptop. Literally, I swear to Christ. They got a ThinkPad, you guys. They wish they had a ThinkPad. They got a fucking Dell, and it's bad, probably. They said future large-scale investigations could be less time-consuming now that Costco of Warrington has donated a $2,500 laptop computer to the police department. Which, by the way, that didn't even get you that much computer back then. Oh, boy. That was a cheap laptop, $2,500 back then. Then the district attorney said not all agencies can afford to have laptops. No, they can't. I sleep. I sleep in a race car bed. Do you sleep in a race car bed? That's generally what they're saying there. No, I sleep in a big bed with my wife. Okay. So they said, yeah, that's how that's going to work. And they said they're very excited. They've logged many hours investigating the murders. And this laptop is really going to make the difference. We're passing it around. Everybody gets a chance. It's like the Stanley Cup. Everyone gets to take it home for a day or two on the whole team. Take your picture with it. Put it next to them. Take it out to the bar. Let everybody drink out of it. Then America's Most Wanted comes along. Here we go. Call them names. Let's do it. They say America's Most Wanted will likely air an episode profiling the suspects this Saturday, though its broadcast isn't set in stone, the show's publicist said. A film crew from America's Most Wanted recently spent the better part of a day inside Seaside gathering material for an upcoming episode. They said, unlike some America's Most Wanted segments, next week's focus on McAllister and Price will be presented as a news package rather than the whole reenactment thing. Remember, they would just do like this here, look out for these guys, but they wouldn't do a whole reenactment. Here's five scumbags that we want you to catch. Exactly. And they just do that. Yeah, they've got to go through them quick. America's Most Wanted, they said, receives information regarding 150 to 300 cases a week. So how do they decide which cases to do? How? Like to really profile and do the reenactment? Well, staff consider a suspect's criminal history in order to determine his or her potential danger to others when deciding which case to broadcast. Priority is given to fugitives, quote, who pose an extreme threat to society. I think these two killing people for no fucking reason, still having a 50 round fucking magazine in their possession. I would say they fall pretty square under that. And could be fucking anywhere. And could be. Could be anywhere. I would say so. Wow. They said, but such as serial murderers or anyone who seems poised to begin a killing spree. These two seem like the perfect candidates for a killing spree, right? They literally started. Yeah, they started. And they're on the run, making them desperate, making them more dangerous. Yep. Thank God they didn't read about Henry Lee Lucas. They would have been able to shot 50 people along the way. Yeah. Wow. So the television show aired. It aired a 10 second spot on McAllister and Price three weeks ago. Although the segment only generated a handful of phone responses, about four or five. The publicist said, all it takes is one. We actually caught a guy with just one phone call once. And we've been talking about it constantly since. Never shut up about it. Never. So Frank Nim's senior spent $2,500 out of his pocket for a private investigator. Yeah. Which is a lot of money back then, too. At a pocket for doing that. And then at the same time, once the PI didn't do anything or couldn't crack the case, I should say, he hired a psychic even. Oh, boy. No leads really came of anything from the psychic either. Shocking. I know everybody catch your breath. I think I'm psychic. I knew that. You knew that, right? See? Someone should hire you. It's good. I might have a little bit of it, too. Hire me, too. Hire us. We're a psychic team. We'll come to your house. Psychic duo, which sounds cooler. Yeah. I like that. So October 97, they're still gone. What? Still. Their car is found. Oh, yeah. The car is found. But they made it. The car is found. They combed for clues in the cars. It is abandoned in Southern Baja, California, which is fucking Mexico. It's the piece that comes down from San Diego all the way down. Like Rosarito and all that shit in it. They made it to the southern tip of Baja in this car. They made it. To the tip of the peninsula? All the way down to the bottom of Baja. Wow. They made it to. That's where the car was found parked. So February 1998, it's been over six months. This is insanity now. They said that the FBI is involved. Now they know they're in Mexico based on the car. But they said basically the trail went cold. Yeah. They're on the border. There's no can't find anything. July 16th, 1998. Wow. A year and two days since the murders. Big article. Suspects remain at large. A $55,000 reward, which now they have. Yeah. It has failed to lead to the arrest of Brad and Jesse, which is fucking crazy. Wow. Nobody in Mexico heard about this reward? I guess not. Because it feels like somebody. Somebody down there might be like, that's a lot of money. Hey, these two fucking gringos. We can cash in on these idiots fast. Fuck these guys. Also, they have a memorial here. Some friends remember the victims on the year anniversary as well. Brooke's mom said, my daughter was everything to me and her two children. Her loss has caused indescribable grief and loneliness. And so she also said, please accept my sincere appreciation for every word of encouragement and your kindness. So many of us will never stop loving Brooke. So finally, July 18th, 1998, a couple of days later than that. Wow. 8 a.m. A guy comes walking across the border near Brownsville. Back into America. Texas. With a duffel bag. Uh-huh. Now, a customs official noted that normal people ride a bus or take a cab or something. They don't haul luggage. They don't take their luggage across on foot at that hour normally. It just doesn't. So he stuck out to that. So a customs agent basically here flagged him down, talked to him, and decided to check the bag he was carrying and sent him over to another agent. Uh-oh. So this turned out to be McAllister. Yeah. McAllister was there. So they found out who he was. They found his identification. They realized he's a super wanted fugitive. And he's arrested. Just McAllister. Huh. Just him. He's flown back on a commercial flight, which was fun for the other people on the flight. Yeah. Just sitting in coach, hanging out. They land in Portland and then drive over, and they stick him in the Clatsop County Jail. Yeah. A reporter from the Daily Astorian got to his older brother, Josh, here and asked him about it. And Josh said, this year has been hell, and it isn't getting any better as far as running. That's what his brother said. Now we're going to have to deal with all this shit. Now it's just gotten worse. Yep. He described his relationship with Jesse McAllister as extremely close. He said he's glad the arrest was peaceful, and he's glad his brother hadn't been taken by force or harmed. The two had spoken by phone on Sunday when he was in jail in Texas. And he said hearing his brother's voice was nice, quote, even though it was under those circumstances. And he said he's scared for his brother. Sure. So where the fuck is Brad Price? What the fuck, Brad? Two days later, at a nightclub in Mexico City, which is nowhere near the border, by the way. That's down at the tip. That is way down there. Two days later, at a fucking nightclub in Mexico City, Price is arrested. Wow. They found him. For what? They were looking for him. They picked him out. Yeah, somebody probably snitched him out or something. But they were living in an apartment together. They had shared for a while. And then I guess McAllister decided he wanted to go back. Mexican authorities take him into custody. And then, of course, they do the deportation stuff because he's wanted and everything like that. So they hand him over to U.S. custody. The problem is Mexico will not hand him over until they agree, the prosecution in Oregon agrees, to not seek the death penalty. Because that's what all civilized countries do. I'm not saying Mexico is the most civilized country. I'm just saying every country. Every European country does that. Every country, pretty much any country you think of as civilized does that, except for us. We're like, we'll only give him back to you if you promise to kill him. So it's funny. Anyway, they hand him over. They make that deal. And no capital punishment. So they stick them in two different jails, Brad and Jesse. Yeah. They stick them in there. They said because many of the other inmates at the class, at the Hatsop County Jail, had personally known either Brooke or Frank. Which, why the fuck do they know everybody in jail? What? Half the jail population knows these two, apparently. Which, Frank was in jail, so that makes sense. Yeah. Yes. The answer is yes. Yeah. Most, also like parole, people who own restaurants get workers from parole. That's what they do. Sure. Because they know they'll show up every day. Yeah. They have to. They get fired. Yeah. Anthony Bourdain in his book said he loved. He loved hiring people on parole because they show up. They have to. They got no choice. They need that job. It's better than prison. If they don't show up here, they go back and they're in trouble. They're going somewhere. So apparently they said that the sheriff said that many inmates were yelling that they would get him if they could. Oh. Get these guys if they could. There was two credible death threats against both suspects. The jail had no way to keep them in protective isolation at once, two people. They only had one. one person worth of, able to, ability to do that. So within days, uh, McAllister was moved to the Polk County Dale, uh, jail in Dallas, Oregon, Dallas and Milwaukee. Yeah. And price was moved to the Tillamook County jail. So now price is going to do a lot of talking. Yeah. Would we like to know what the fuck happened that day? Why was he? Yeah. What the fuck? Well, let's find out what went on here. Um, okay. 2 a.m. McAllister and price. They'd spent half the night bar hopping. Well, this is cause their TV broke. So we're jumping the gun. Their TV broke. So they decided to go out to a bar and get some drinks. Okay. So they were doing that with an underage kid with an underage kid. Yeah. So they're going bar hopping. Um, so they did that. Then they went home, the TV broke and then the TV was broke. So they quote, got bored as you do. It's the middle of the night. It's the middle of the night too. I mean, go to bed. How about go to bed? Exactly. Solve this problem tomorrow at a pawn shop, make 30 pizza rolls, eat them all and go to sleep. I do it. It's great. And then you'll never feel better. If you eat 30 pizza rolls and then go to sleep and 22 and 19, they don't even know what fucking indigestion is yet. Fuck. No, they're going to wake up the pepperoni ones you eat too. Those are the best ones. And then you wake up feeling like a million bucks. They've never felt heartburn in their lives. So McAllister said he dropped a suggestion. He said that let's go out and look for someone to kill. Jesse said that apparently. And Jesse backs that up too. That was his idea. Price said that when they set out for the beach, he knew that McAllister had brought a backpack and he knew it was in the backpack, which is the loaded Calico nine millimeter. So Brad gets into the car knowing that he had a gun and all that. They first stop at Delray beach. That's the first place. They stop at while it's completely deserted, totally empty. It's three in the morning. So it makes sense. Nobody to kill. So they got back into the car and drove to the beach at seaside instead where they knew there'd be people. Yeah. So about 4:00 AM, they come upon three young people at a bonfire on the sand. This isn't the two people we talked about earlier. This is the three. Their names are Carrie Ann Barkey, Amy Eckrock, Eckroth and Kevin Westrick. So two young ladies, ladies and a young man. Good for you. Come across Kev's doing okay out there on that beach. Um, this is the, the bonfire group here. Okay. Um, and they're young. Uh, so they're, they're teenagers, all of them like 18, 19 that age. So, uh, apparently they might, a couple of them are cousins, whatever they're sitting around in a fire, smoking cigarettes and talking like you do. Um, McAllister and price walked up to them and introduced themselves using fake names. Okay. Number one, uh, they talked for about a half hour. Uh, Barky, the one you carry and Barky said she didn't worry when McAllister told them that he had a badge and a gun in his bag. She thought it was a sarcastic reply to a joke by her cousin that she was the beach police and wanted to seize the fake identification. They had her cousin made a joke and cause they said, where were you guys tonight? And blah, blah, blah. They have fake IDs. I'm the beach police. I'm going to take those. They were joking. Then according to Carrie Ann Barky, McAllister took it a weird place. Uh, quote, he started bringing up a conversation that sounded like it had started prior to stopping at our campfire. He started talking about a notion. They kept bringing up the word notion. I got a notion. I got a notion. Notions kept coming up, which sounds like a bad eighties singles bar come down to notions. Yeah. They put like phones on the table where you call another table. One of those, like in that Jim Carrey movie once bitten. So it's awful. So they're sitting there and they thought it was weird notion. Why they keep talking about a notion. And it was just Jesse and Brad talking about it. And they would like ignore the group and talk amongst each other about this notion. So it was really weird. Now the word notion, Brad would later say, quote, he was thinking about killing someone. That was the notion. That's what that meant. Essentially. Um, McAllister kept bringing it back up again. So this Carrie Ann Barky said, what the fuck are you talking about? Why do you keep saying notion? What does that mean? McAllister's answer here, um, is quote, you'll find out as soon as I'm done with this cigarette. So she said that scared her, this young lady. That's just the way he said it was scary. Meanwhile, um, while all this is going on, uh, price is like bringing up other things. Price, Brad price asked McAllister, you want to go to the liquor store or back to the, to the apartment? Let's get more booze. Should we go to the liquor store or the apartment to get the booze? Um, so they think maybe that was a, he was trying to get trying to get McAllister out of here right now. Um, then McAllister kept asking, asking price what he thought about the notion. So what about that notion? And price's answer was that he was quote, taking precautions. I'm taking precautions. What about the notion? Um, to which, at one point McAllister said back to him in front of the group, quote, what precautions are there to take? It's perfect. There's no one around. It's dark. There's no one on the beach. So what precautions are there to take? Okay. Now he's just saying shit out loud because it doesn't matter if they hear it. Cause he wants to kill these people. Absolutely. So price McAllister, they're talking to each other and bark. He said it was a quote, almost like we weren't even there. He kept persisting about the motion, uh, the notion price responded to. There's no, there's no one around. It's the beach price responded. We're too close to the prom, the promenade promenade, right? People can hear. So Barky said that she again asked what was going on. And McAllister said, quote, I'll tell you when I'm done with my cigarette. She said, he said it very mean and coldly. McAllister then got mad at Brad and said, are you scared? You're scared, aren't you? Or is it that there's only two, that there's two, only two of us and three of them. Oh my God. Are you a pussy? Basically, you afraid they're going to take us or something? Yeah. So at that point, Barky said she got the distinct impression that McAllister was challenging price here. He was trying to, uh, you know, she's like, she's doing, what are you a pussy? Yeah. She's got some pretty good, uh, street smarts. It's very obvious what's happening. Absolutely. Anybody with any street smarts will start to feel this. Yeah. Remember in Deadwood when Joni was explaining to the new prostitute, yeah, how to know when, when things are going wrong. You got to feel the electricity in the air. When you feel like get the fuck out of there, you have to have that. You have to stay in your house. There's three of them and only two of us. I'd look around and go, wait a minute. Yeah. What are we talking about? Do you want to fuck us or kill us? Which one is it? It's one of the two. Yeah. I got a feeling Kev over here is not safe. God damn. Yeah, exactly. Then out of nowhere, McAllister turns to them and says, you guys, don't have to worry about being robbed. Oh, they're like, okay. Yeah. Um, yeah, uh, that's interesting. Um, when asked the Barkey said she was pretty sure McAllister was looking to do something bad. When they asked about price, she said, maybe I wasn't sure. She said, McAllister appeared to be challenging pricing. Are you scared? Are you scared? Although, you know, there's only two of us, um, then said, don't you worry, I'm going to rob you. Her older cousin whispered to her that they should leave. Uh, quote, I guess I was just so scared. I didn't want to move. I thought it would cause trouble, but they decided to get up and walk away. Now price says this himself, that he stood up and pointed it out to McAllister going, look, they're leaving. Okay. And McAllister then said to price, you better make your decision quickly. And they heard them. They, the group bonfire group heard that. Um, and he put his hand inside the backpack where his gun was. Huh? How about it? You want me to grab it or not? Um, which is very weird during one of the moments before they got up, price walked around the group and stood behind the one man in the group to Kevin, the boy. I don't know why he did that, but he did that for a while. Um, so this guy slipped off his coats hood to see him better. Like why is this dude behind me? What the fuck? So they're walking away in the dark and, um, he didn't price doesn't say anything. He just points to them and, um, that's it. But they did hear McAllister say to price quote, I'm very disappointed in you. You're three years younger than me. Go fuck yourself. What are you talking about? Disappointed in me. Thanks dad. Um, so yeah. So they said at no point did price say anything like, you know, leave these people alone. We don't have to do this. It just seemed like he was hedging and didn't know what to do here. Price and McAllister were smoking camel cigarettes and had shared some, um, with barking and her cousin. So police found cigarette butts of the same brand and everything by the bonfire. As they found next to the bodies of Frank or Casey and, and Brooke. So at that point after the bonfire group breaks up, the boys decided to walk home McAllister and price. They just decided to walk home on their way home near the promenade. They found a couple sitting on the walkway there along the walkway. It's a man and a woman, the local taverns let out and everything. it's Casey and Brooke and they were just out hanging out waiting for the sun to come up so uh Casey asked uh Jesse and Brad do you guys have any weed as they walked by because it's the middle of the night and you know good chance maybe somebody does McAllister said no so Casey says ah come on don't be stingy i don't know you first of all don't be stingy is a fascinating don't hang on to all the weed that you've purchased share it with a stranger share with me this guy that's just sitting here that you'll never see again right whenever anybody tries that shit with me like on the streets and cities that we're touring and stuff i'm immediately go fuck yourself i'm fucking you gotta get aggressive with people on the street your weed yeah these are like homeless people that are doing it too it's like i will give you five dollars i'll get whatever don't fucking tell me i'm not giving you fuck you get your own weed don't call me stingy i'll give you your own joint but i'm not giving you a hit off my joint that ain't happening i'm not putting this in your mouth no i'm not putting in anybody's mouth i don't know it's not even don't take it personal i just saw something recently that was uh the the the guy was sharing a joint with put it in his knuckles and took a hit out of his fist i've never seen that before yeah Yeah that's like some old school weird shit when you want to look like a fucking lunatic who who either that's just crazy this is a very interesting choice oh yeah all right well you don't trust me now that felt more insulting than taking it i understand taking care of yourself but that's part of the what do you think that's part of the community of smoking a joint though is part of it is it's like back in the day when they all pass something around to drink or whatever it's a thing that we're all in this together so when you go and you're not in this with me now you're just you're just smoking my weed even though you think i'm diseased fuck you right and i get the kenny powers like you don't know what shit i have either but it's like yeah i don't know man i handed you my joint i was i'm on board with it yeah obviously i'm okay with you putting your fucking face on it your fist and told me go fuck myself yeah might as well have you "God damn so that's what's going on don't be stingy yeah then mcallister stops after the stingy comment turns to price and says you want to smoke a bowl oh so that he knows that they have weed too so um they don't have any weed by the way no weed no balls no balls um so he said do you want to smoke a bowl what he's really asking is would you like to kill these people he's asking price apparently so according to this price said yes let's smoke a bowl knowing that neither of them have any weed so and price would later say he knew what he was agreeing to he knew that this had nothing to do with weed um he knew that mcallister intended to murder them and he you know he said he knew that the second he offered up the weed that he didn't have he said he knew he was going to kill those people um so they're now walking somewhere you know away from the promenade and the hotels to smoke the weed as you used to have to do um and they said the quote there's a little swing set there that's where the deed took place that's what the sergeant said by the swing set so they walked toward the swing set in the dark as they walked um at some point casey nims said do you actually have any weed like where are we going what's going on you haven't whipped anything out what's going on um and then price said no okay so that everybody just said no and then price said no and then mcallister said no stop and casey and brooke were like okay well we're not going any further than where the fuck are we going what are we doing mcallister pulls the gun out at that point now this is fucking amazing and brooke is a badass okay this is ballsy like a fucking a seasoned hell's angel wouldn't do this this is crazy okay he whips the gun out is pointing it at them brooke rather than cower or do anything like that she charges at him and kicks him in the chest this is a crazy looking gun too this isn't a little gun she said brah and attacked him she charged him and kicked the motherfucker which is that's a bad bitch i like her a lot like she's again i take her home she's faced challenges before this ain't shit this ain't shit it's at that point when she kicks him the gun goes off oh okay she fell to the ground believing she'd been shot which is what people do even when they're shot or whether they're not shot they yeah on tv you see people get shot and fall down so people get shot and fall down because they think they're supposed to yeah even if they're fine even if they can get up and walk away well also i think that's what it is a lot of times when you're shot you don't even know that you're shot so no a noise of a of a shot may you may think fuck i'm hit and then fell yeah right but it's a psychological thing that they say is it's a learn behavior of getting shot and falling down if you know you got shot you fall down because you think that's what you're supposed to do even though most of the time you could stay up unless it hit a major artery or nerve or something otherwise yeah you could you're fine for the most part you could walk it off not walk it off but walk away from it so the gun went off she fell down believing she'd been shot so now there's a long second here where guess what the guns jammed right yes the trash callister's trying to clear the jam now brooke is down but alive and fine and casey's still standing there and this is just a long big second what do you do in this second you know what i mean um so casey at that point rather than turning and run away he thought brooke was shot so he goes to try to help her which is i mean he probably could he might have been able to get away if he just turned and ran away but he was trying to help his friend it's what we're learned to do of take care of somebody in a way that's what we're learned to do of take care of somebody in a way that's injured especially yeah that's what you do especially a woman especially a woman 10 years younger than you you know it's just a thing so it's at that point that price keeps brooke from getting away while mcallister clears the thing so this is where price actually has some active participation in this he basically stands over her keeps her down from keeps her from running while it happens so mcallister clears the jam steps over brooke who's being held down by brad and shoots frank or casey in the head while he was standing one shot front of the head drops him okay and mcallister later said i figured price would back me up back me up if she tried to go anywhere meaning brooke yeah okay price was still leaning over uh still leaning over brooke after casey was killed so uh mcallister had to nudge brad price out of the way with his elbow to be able to shoot brooke wow so moved him off he leaned down and shot her in the head as she laid down in the sand pussy total pussy shit shoot a woman while she's laying in the fucking sand like that's just pathetic give her a chance to kick you again how about that the whole event is garbage it's all garbage yeah this is garbage these two are garbage people um so brad did that brad watches this whole thing these two people are dead shot in the head they're standing there brad price turns to mcallister and said mexico doesn't sound bad this time of year wow they talked about that because they watched in cold blood a lot of trouble now yeah so before leaving they stop at the store they leave the beach shot people in the head they stop at the store at the at herbs quick mart yeah to buy a couple of lighters you need a couple of bicks a little cigarette lighters the clerk is a friend of mcallister's and knew him and mcallister looked uh looked over and uh he said quote i just shot two people on the beach oh boy okay then he starts making phone calls that's what's fucking amazing mcallister repeatedly by the way on these phone calls we don't know if this is true and he's trying to take brad off the hook or if he wants people to he wants all the credit for it i'm not sure yeah you never know with a kid like this a kid like this he just said it's all me he said i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure i'm not sure you know whatever you hear brad had nothing to do with it he told one of the people he's not as tough as i am that's what i mean i don't know if it's him being like you know hey listen i'll take the rap for this one or if it's him being like i'm the badass brad's a pussy don't listen to him um then he said i'm leaving town and you'll know why in the morning he tells somebody else um then then the just for the hell of it line of you know why'd you kill those people brad's mom does not believe any of this by the way they're in custody yeah he has admitted all of it right jesse's told the story they have all the physical evidence but she says i don't think so not my boy no she insisted there's no way her son was capable of this kind of violence she said we were on a hunting trip as a kid he couldn't even shoot a deer well no way he killed probably just can't shoot something that far away yeah so mcallister and price's journals they find by the way um sections of which were admitted into evidence later on show a real interwoven relationship between the pair and they really affected each other a lot basically price influenced mcallister to write poetry and to read books mcallister's not it's kind of like what i try to do with you yeah i'm pretty good including ken kesey's sometimes a great notion notion ken kesey wrote one flew over the cuckoo's nest and was he formed the merry pranksters group which is a really interesting group from the 60s to look up and he also got busted for just a quick thing he got busted for possession of marijuana which was a big deal in the early 60s and uh he faked his own death by like throwing his van off a cliff and shit and faked his own death and went to like paraguay for like two years before he came back like this guy's he's an awesome character man great character is that um is that illegal yes very your own death yes it is illegal to fake your own death especially that way i think i don't know if it's illegal like sir it's the things you do to fake your own death that make it illegal makes it for um right yeah yeah so mcallister called price his best friend um and all that also the guy who sold the gun to them called them a team they seem like a team um so march 1999 will mcallister plea is there there's a thing of whether he's going to make a plea deal now brooke's mother gloria guritz said quote i think it's kind of obvious he'll be entering a plea she says she absolutely and consistently opposes the death penalty she said what they do with him in the flesh is irrelevant oh fair enough um he is going to plead guilty mcallister jesse mcallister pleads um basically the reason why he pleads and this is a big we don't know if this is true or not but we're pretty sure during a year on the run apparently people relatives and parents had sent him money oh and helped him which is aiding abetting and abetting a fucking fugitive at that point so basically they said they people believe and we don't know if that's true but people believe that this is the chip that they use to plea bargain with him as you don't if you take and we're going to take your mom too yep yeah you will they're going to arrest the rest of you for put you all on trial well there's also the fact that yeah everybody's off the hook there's also the fact that he went across the border at brownsville so we can kill you if you don't plea that's yeah that's the other thing so yeah you're not yeah the death penalty is on the table for this but they're not going to use the death penalty they don't want the death penalty here because they feel like later on it will be an appeals point first of all you can't get him to plead guilty if you have the death penalty on the table number one right that's my point he took the plea because death penalty on the table second if price then he's not going to get the death penalty because that's been negotiated later on he could the other one here mcallister could use that in appeal saying it was not it was disproportionate because his partner got this and he got that so that's that's what i think they're trying to avoid too he pleads guilty to two counts of aggravated murder it's not good okay during the the thing he has to do an allocution that's part of it too there's there are deals with this as part of the deals no parole and no appeals he's not allowed to appeal he got the brian coberger deal no appeals no fucking anything you go in there and shut the fuck up forever no hearing from you which is for the family they said great he's gone forever good deal uh the victim's family throw the maya culpa out there huh yep he said in the early morning hours of july 4th 1997 i was walking on the beach near the promenade in seaside there i met ms goza and mr nims together we walked away from the sand dunes i intentionally shot mr nims in the head while he was standing i then shot miss goza in the head while she lay in the sand now during the impact statements here from the family man um don who is casey's brother said casey was my brother my friend my fishing buddy my helper i'm never going to see him again there are no words that can describe our pain frustration and anger at least you'll never be able to cause harm to another family i have satisfaction in my heart knowing when i see my brother again in heaven jesse won't be there oh you'll you won't be there yeah during this mcallister lowered his eyes to what don nims then said i've wanted to look you right in the eye and say uh and do a lot more to you than i'm allowed um then frank nims said you just the father said you took them just for the hell of it he said i want you to rot in hell is also what the dad said casey's kids both testified to here that's right because now he's you know his son is 17 his daughter's like 13 his daughter said i'm the 13 year old daughter of frank nims i used to think nothing terrible would happen to me when i found out about my dad all of my hopes and dreams for a normal future were destroyed how could anyone commit such a sinister crime i hope jesse mcallister has the rest of his life to think about the pain he has caused and then called him a monster oh wait that's a great point like as a child you think that i mean you're just you don't even consider this no what do you know what they're doing yeah yeah and your dad just they're out there is murdered on the beach in the middle of the night easy if it can happen to him it can happen to me and i'm 12 and i now know that now i'm terrified because he was strong he was the guy i looked at as the protector yeah she also said at least my father went to heaven when you die and meet your maker you better hope he's a lot more forgiving than i am oh fuck that's a good one from a kid vicious 13 year old then the lost person in all this casey's fiancee oh bonnie this poor woman yeah she said you took away a loving man and she also said to rotten hell as well that seems to be a theme that's going on very for that yeah brooke's mom said jesse you crushed so many hearts and lives as a result i am living dead i died with brooke and she said brooke will live every day or hour of every day in my heart then um the prosecution says his family they're closing his family will be able to come and visit him uh they the murder victim victim did nothing to deserve what happened to them then jesse says some shit to the family he says i know how my words must ring hollow in your ears and my voice may lack emotions i'd like to portray but please realize what i say now comes from the heart i do not know the words that could express the remorse and sorrow i feel for the pain i've caused though my actions have not only hurt nims and goza families but bradley and my own as well please accept my most sincere apologies nothing i could say or do would restore what i've taken from you i just pray someday you'll find it in your heart to forgive me um the judge says your considerable actions caused considerable pain to many people the families are going to continue to suffer every day you said yes may fuck off two consecutive life sentences no parole no appeals that's pretty good that's not bad um i would say so um when asked if he forgave mccallister dr goza said who knows i have a lot of bad thoughts but it's time to put that behind us you can't change what happened now don nims the brother is a little more set on his he said no way in my mind am i ever going to forgive him i wanted to see the pictures of the people's lives he took and remember that the i reminded him to remember that the rest of his stinking life okay um the 1999 is brad price's trial and he opts for a bench trial is that right which makes sense because this uh jury is gonna there juries are gonna think how scary that is that it's random and like that's very scary and uh a judge might have a little more perspective on the whole thing um so uh yeah uh now during this trial here um the he's charged with two counts of aggravated murder he faces the same maximum sentence you never know or he could get life with parole um will mccallister testify here both sides said they intend to call mccallister as a witness during the trial but they don't know if he'll actually testify or just take the fifth because that's not part of the deal is that he has to testify um so they don't know uh they said if he doesn't speak they're going to try to use his videotaped interview where he told everything to the police instead um the moms sit together oh his mother and and her and brooke's mother sit together what yes gloria guritz and pat westling they sit together they go in together they sit together and um they both lost a child james yeah brooks's mother said we have to be bigger than that we have to set a good example yeah which is very mature incredibly mature the prosecution here scoff at the claim that brad was a mere observer in the beach because that's that's the defense is he was just an observer the other guy did everything basically um so he said bradley price was no observer in this case he bought the gun he bought the ammunition he was in fact the brains of the operation uh they also say that it was repeat uh inspired by repeated viewings of in cold blood and they set out to kill somebody it was a premeditated conspiracy to commit murder although ironically of nobody in particular it was the desire to have some sort of experience bradley price was kneeling beside her with his hand on her mr price was right there right over brooke goza brooke goes that didn't have a chance of living then they talk about you know they flew they fled to mexico which shows even more of his guilt that he would flee to mexico His attorney here, or the district attorney, contends that Price helped his friend carry out and plan this whole thing. The defense said he was only kneeling over Brooke to tell her that she hadn't been shot. He was just trying to—he was doing a medical sweep. Yeah. Just a quick bullet check. I found no shots. Nothing. He said, in fact, he did everything in his power to stop these murders from occurring. He described his client as a somewhat unique individual who was passive, nonviolent, and actually called a peacemaker by his friends. He said that, you know, the teens at the bonfire will testify that Price was trying to talk McAllister and is simply going home. He said every single one of those three people, every single one, say Mr. Price continued to try to talk Mr. McAllister into leaving. He tried to talk him out of doing anything. And he said the guy who sold the gun to them. He insisted on handing it to Price because he knew McAllister couldn't legally own a gun because of his youth. He said, so, you know, this was all for McAllister. Ninety minutes after the bodies were found, McAllister called his friend to tell him, whatever you hear, Brad had nothing to do with it. And the shootings were for the hell of it. He goes, so that's coming from McAllister. He said that Price feels morally responsible for not stopping Mr. McAllister, but that's not legal responsible. That's what he said. Yeah, that's what the lawyer said. He said Price went to the beach not thinking anything bad would happen, although McAllister had previously talked of killing someone. And Price testified or said to the police in a statement in the affidavit that he knew what McAllister wanted to do. He said McAllister pulled the gun. Nim started to walk away. A scuffle ensued. She ran up and kicked him. A shot was accidentally discharged. And she they say this is the defense attorney saying goes, has said. She was hit and yelled. I was shot in the eye. Price went over to comfort her and told her you're not shot and then gently patted her on the head. Then he got her a snow cone. Yeah, no, this is ridiculous. Well, his friend shot her in the face. You know, yeah, that's all. So he said that Price panicked and decided to flee with McAllister. He said, bad decision. No question. I'll give you that one. Yeah, bad times. So this is insane. Here they start talking about the notion, the notion of killing someone. He said Price was just trying to convince McAllister to go home. Price walked around the group and behind Westrick to try to draw McAllister away from the group home, not as a threat to stand behind the poor guy and creep him out. You know, and then also Price McAllister and Eric Menzel, the guy he called in the morning, had gone to Price McAllister's apartment to watch videos. He said not killing anyone watching video. But when their television broke, that's when they went out bar hopping. The Menzel guy left about 1230 a.m. because he was underage and didn't have any fake I.D. So they ended up Price and McAllister ended up at the beach and brew and they hung out. By the way, that is where gauze and nims were drinking, too. Oh, they left around 230 a.m. So they had to have seen them. They had to McAllister told their friend Menzel. That price was starting to lose it. At one point on the way to Mexico, McAllister told Price, you didn't do anything. I'll turn the car around and bring it back to Seaside if you want. OK, so they do a tour of the crime scene, a roped off area of about 400 yards here. So they do that. They bring the judge and the lawyers all go down to look at it. They bring witnesses in cellmate here of Price. Gary Gottschall, a former cellmate of Price's, was expected to testify here. They did testify. But then William Travis, William Brumble, an inmate at the jail, testified that Gary Gottschall often voiced threats to kill Price when all three were held in the jail. This guy testified. And then they bring in another guy who says, oh, no, that guy who said that thing, he tried to kill Brad. It's interesting. Barbara Higgler is a sergeant at the jail described finding a toothbrush sharpened into a weapon in Gottschall cell. Nice. And said that Gottschall was known for lying. And that Brumble was known for telling the truth. And she described Price as a model prisoner. But he was going to get it. He was going to get stabbed. Yeah. Brad testifies. Yeah. Got nothing to lose here. Nothing to lose. He said that he turned to tell McAllister about Brooke that she was OK. So Jesse wouldn't continue with this. Like, hey, you didn't shoot her. So you don't have to shoot her. Basically, he said, I remember thinking if he shot Nims, he was going to kill her. And I didn't want to be in that direction. The last thing I remember, it's the last thing I remember until running down the beach. He said his first words were to suggest they flee to Mexico, or they did, obviously, here. Price admitted he knew McAllister's intention when they left the apartment for bar hopping. They said, so you were doing what? And he said, yeah, to look for someone to kill, I guess. Price said, but I didn't take him seriously at all. It just seemed like an absurd idea to me. It didn't seem possible. He said he was the one who suggested they drive to Delray Beach, hoping that along the 15-minute drive, the guy would forget about it and not want to do it anymore. He said, plus, Delray Beach is empty a lot. So he thought maybe getting there and not seeing anybody, he'd go, all right, fuck it. Let's go home. So he's just saying that he's a talker, but he helped the guy get a gun. That's what I mean. He said McAllister parked the car a block away from their apartment, and they walked a few blocks to the beach. They walked. They walked south to the length of the prom and then headed back. On the half-mile walk back, Price said he forgot about McAllister's intentions and the gun in his backpack. So I forgot all about it. At that point, we were just hanging out. He said that's when they ran into the tourists at the campsite, and he said McAllister acted friendly at first, but then started talking about this notion. And he said that's when he realized that McAllister hadn't forgotten and that he was actually trying to kill someone. He said, I think he was trying to kill someone. He was trying to get me to go along with whatever he was thinking of doing, and I knew I had no intention of killing someone. So he said he purposely argued with McAllister to try to come up with reasons to leave. And he said he walked around the other side of the group to draw McAllister's attention away, basically. When they left, he said McAllister growled and fired a shot off in anger. I thought he'd realized he'd been defeated in his plan to do this. So he fired a round off at the beach anyway? At the beach before, yeah, when they left, according to him. Now, he also said that Brooke invited them to a party, but Casey wanted to smoke marijuana. That's what he says, Price. He denied McAllister's testimony that he asked Price if he wanted to smoke with the pair as a cue as to whether to want to kill them or not. He said at McAllister's suggestion, the four walked into the dunes. Price said he trailed the group, contradicting McAllister's claim that Price was the one who killed them. Price and Nims led. Now, about 1,000 feet onto the beach, Price said Nims stopped and asked McAllister, do you actually have weed? Price said no, which was meant as a, he called a feeble warning about McAllister's plans. Like, no, we don't. Like, you should go now, basically. Nims confronted McAllister and said he was leaving. McAllister pulled out the 9 mil from the backpack and he said, quote, with a terrified kind of look in his eyes, he waved it toward the other three. Price said that he and Nims were standing side by side and both took a couple steps backwards. Nims asked if the gun was real and Price told him it was. That's when Brooke charged and kicked McAllister. The gun went off, hitting no one. He said, quote, she was laughing and saying she'd been shot in the eye. I don't think she was laughing. I don't think she was laughing either. He could tell she was alive because she was kicking when she lay on her back. When he saw Goza wasn't hurt, he said he turned to tell McAllister. McAllister hoping to, you know, you don't have to kill these people. But he said at that point it was too late and he started shooting people and Mexico came up and that's how everything had to go. He said, quote, I knew I wasn't going to be heroic and try to take the gun away from him. And I knew I wasn't he wasn't going to listen to me, but I really didn't believe he would kill anyone. So on cross, they say, quote, for that thousand feet, every step you knew Jesse McAllister was intending to kill people. He said, I knew that's what he had on his mind. I didn't believe he was capable of murdering anyone. They were like, I think you did. And also everything you described counteracts the physical evidence as well. The direction you guys came from and who was where is the footprints tell a completely different story as well. So they love to do this. Don't they? Criminals like this. They minimize so much. Yep. He said he has no memory of Brooke being shot, which is pretty significant. You were on top of her, man. No shit. They take just a quick trial break here. Brad's parents watched silently as their son was there. As Price was let out of the courtroom, they exchanged a long look. His father, Chuck, gave him a gave him two thumbs up. Doing great. And then his mother said, I quote, absolutely believe in his innocence. He just told you what happened. And she believed. Believes he is innocent. She said it's obvious he was there, but he's not capable of something like this. Then she said it was one. to see him wow that's crazy she said this ordeal has been your worst nightmare you've ever had and not able to to wake up she said my heart goes out to the families of both victims we can't lose sight of what happened here two people lost their lives now casey's dad frank senior said price is full of shit he said he's well rehearsed from his attorneys the moms by the way uh goes his mother said it's all very confusing i still think he's extremely guilty he could have done something now his mom is standing right next to her and saying uh she said i'm very proud of him that's all i could say what in the fuck at the next day the moms break up they had enough of each other yeah goes his mom said she could no longer sit next to pat yeah you can't listen to that woman say i'm so proud of you she's so confused she said now i feel brad is more guilty than jesse because he had more opportunity to stop the shootings i don't think pat the other mother can understand my feelings because she's so adamant that he's innocent right anyway verdict comes in and he is guilty of two counts of aggravated murder during sentencing the daughter i won't read it because it's long and we don't have time but she read a long fucking letter to which daughter jc's daughter little tasha there oh jesus tasha whatever she's a bad ass read him the riot act boy it was it's fucking good talking about you've completely ruined our lives you'll never know how it feels to have your father or mother killed just for the hell of it i mean really uh really into she's she's good uh the defense they bring out a shrink saying okay okay he's got some problems yeah he does he said that price has a schizoid personality and becoming involved with mcallister and the murders because of his personality he was roped up in it but he he can learn from his mistake oh he's rehabilitative yeah they said that uh his personality disorder which is not schizophrenia just schizoid just you know whatever makes him rather distant not interact with people not get emotionally involved and have little sexual interest he said it's a disorder that starts in the teenage years or or or early adulthood he describes people with schizoid personality disorder as vulnerable marks for aggressive and violent people like mcallister oh he said it was almost like mcallister was all price had he called mcallister not only a psychopath but a thrill killer and he said that uh he was impressed that mcallister had a very close loyal relationship with price also said price has an iq of 125 really pretty damn good very smart but uh impressionable and not interested in pussy not interested in pussy not interested at all that's a problem that's it i don't trust any 22 year old who's has those traits i mean unless you're interested in well you're interested in something fine go nuts a hole of some kind you need to be chasing if you're a young man it doesn't matter who that hole's attached to but you're chasing a hole uh he also they bring in his it's not necessarily even asexual it's just uh uninterested in in i guess that's asexual yes if you're not interested in anybody yeah that's for yourself i guess yeah uh they bring in his high school football coat and friends family to mitigate for him anyway you sir may fuck off two life sentences consecutive yeah but 30 year minimum he is eligible for parole in 30 years which is 2029 by the way which is coming very soon oh no um mcallister in prison uh he was between the trial and the time he pled and then brad's trial he was involved in a prison state mcallister he's dangerous yeah absolutely they said the details of the stabbing were not immediately known but the consequences were because of it mcallister had to take a six month anger management course and was held in segregation for a long time this lifers in max and just regular ass population huh that's it so then he tries something else he tries to escape mcallister does mcallister in prison still a problem he's still he's going to be for forever he was carrying a note in his pants cuff to his accomplice he was carrying a note to brad in his pants cuff when he got caught um it was quickly thwarted when jail officers traced him to the ceiling and ordered him down during an early evening check uh they discovered mcallister who had been reading alone in the library was gone authorities say his path to freedom was blocked by thick concrete walls and locked steel doors so he crawled around in the ceiling quote like a desperate gerbil a desperate gerbil is the best fucking to escape prison was thwarted by prison prison walls and such bars walls you know all that prison stuff and just ran around like a like a gerbil what is it like a like a corner like a desperate gerbil that's amazing that's amazing in neat print with perfect spelling mcallister's notes said price's lawyers told him that price hadn't tried to sell me out and he adds i hope you know that i'm not trying to tell on you either just trying to be friends with his buddy still fuck brad appeals he does a direct appeal he has a 2008 appeal and uh ineffective assistance of counsel saying he was denied due process because he was convicted on insufficient evidence um even though he admitted everything that happened and um yeah so there you go and none of that works 2021 jesse actually goes to try to file a petition for clemency with the governor yeah because that is the only way there is no court route for him he has all of his appeals are gone the only route he can go is clemency from the governor and uh governor not real excited to pardon people who shot people shot tourists and then fucking they're not tourists but shot people in a tourist area and then he's fucking fled to mexico then stabbed people in prison and tried to escape really not a lot for the game politically zero gain also they nothing they did it for nothing nope they do say this jesse was an angry insecure 19 year old who lashed at others culminating in him taking the lives of two people jesse feels constant remorse for the pain he senselessly inflicted on the victim's families and his own family and strives each day to be a better person than he was the day before today he's a caring friendly man that adults in custody and staff members enjoy being around okay so stay there then uh the da said i told them what i believed to be true and that meant that we would never ever hear from jesse mccallister again there'd be no parole hearing there'd be no appeals he said he's horrified because he promised the families they'd never have to hear his name again but he forgot about clemency requests when he did that and you can't i guess statutorily you can't block those so um yeah they said that we're putting a big time opposition to it and they're not going to listen to it and they're not going to listen to it because we don't want to see the guy out the new d.a says and uh tasha tasha tasha uh tasha uh casey's daughter said as i read through this several times looking for and looking and searching for any inclement inclination of remorse or empathy toward the family i didn't find anything in there i found nothing apologizing for the trauma he's caused and the lifelong devastation that it's caused my family yeah she did say though quote it didn't take my dream to be a part of my family to be a part of my it didn't take away my dreams and ambitions from coming to fruition i still worked really hard and got into college and have a really good career but it definitely makes things a lot more difficult it did devastate our family and tear my family completely apart my older brother has never fully recovered from the incident oh damn it the one on the fishing boat and brad uh he is at the snake river correctional institution uh looking at 2029 in idaho so i i don't know if i don't know if they put that in idaho or there but they trade prisoners sometimes either way though that is where he is they're stuck and um you know brad has a chance of getting out someday yeah i would think together in there if he keeps it together based on his record and everything else and based on being the least less aggressive of the two you know what you know what 30 years does for you it gives you a big window of time to fuck up in yeah and if you don't a lot of times between 22 and 52 yeah a lot of that said he was burned out yeah yeah you're just 30 years is such a long window how many times have you fucked up in 30 years and nobody's even watching you every day every day that's what i mean so to be able to you're totally great point to be able to not get in trouble in prison you have to really be straight and narrow every day every day try not to get in trouble fuck yeah so anyway there you go seaside oregon just a wild story of unnecessary craziness and two people that didn't need to be killed killed and no reason one they gained nothing one guy liked a movie that's why this happened this is stupid so so very stupid if you like this show get on whatever app you're on and please give us five stars it helps drive the show up the charts it helps tremendously if you're watching on netflix those thumbs up are extremely helpful you have no idea thank you so much for hanging with us and doing that we appreciate the shit out of that head to shut up and give me murder.com damn it Merchandise tickets for live shows September the 18th in Milwaukee. at the Pabst, get your tickets. 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Then you get new ones, two new ones every other week, one CrimeInSports, one Small Town Murder. You get how much of that do they get? It's fucking great. You get it all. All of it, damn it. This week for CrimeInSports, Hostage Situations Part 2, because the first one was just awesome. It was so fun. Then for Small Town Murder, Prisoner Dating Game time again. My god, get in there. Four bachelors, four bachelorettes I line up in front of Jimmy, and the only thing they have in common is they're currently incarcerated violent felons. And Jimmy's going to pick one of each, and then he gets based solely on their profiles. Then he gets to find out what they did and how wrong of a decision he has made. Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash CrimeInSports, just like the name of our other show, which you should listen to, CrimeInSports, and also your stupid opinions. Now, with your Patreon, you also get all the shows we put out, ad-free, 100%, and you get a shout-out at the end of the show, which is right now, Jimmy, hit me with the names of the best fucking people on Earth who would at least have a reason for shooting us in the head. Hit me with them right goddamn now. This week's executive producers are a daughter of the Chosen People, James. She didn't give a name. Oh, my. Wow. Congratulations. She is a daughter of the Chosen. Blakely Sheridan, Happy Hour in Albuquerque, poor bastard. Addie Murphy, Elena Zemel, Megan Ann Mabel Fred, Sarah Pecora, Kenneth Miner, Mary Thomas, Ricky Gray. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Liz Vasquez, Janice Hill, Allison with no last name, Sherry Miller, Hunter Galster, Ryan M., Steph Martin, Kalach Bakery, Kalachi, perhaps? Kalachay Bakery. Sounds delicious. Amanda Schmidt, Rollin' Nerd Pot, Rollin' Nerd Pot. Oh, that's a certain pastry, isn't it? A Kalachay? Isn't that a pastry? Or did he find out? I love carbs. Sounds delicious. Sounds like something. Probably. Send one over. Do they only make Kalachay? I have no idea if that's even a thing. I don't know what the fuck I'm saying right now. Put some powdered sugar on it and shoot it over our way. We'll fucking eat it. Carbs with powdered sugar are the best. Ben Young, Nat Wilson, Lacey Evans, Alyssa Rosenthal, Victoria Brooke, Vicki Elliott, Swagzilla, Shadow Freddy. Edelrom, Ed Helrum. S. The letter S. Jessica Bryant, Leslie Galbraith, Frey with no last name, Mark Brockman, Codename Reaction, Decembre N. Carissa or Charissa? Evans, Aunt Sharon and Uncle Death, Jen Herman, Jill Kryzek, Gina Gilmore, Julia Duncan, LG Brassfield, Bracefield maybe, Issa Boe, Haya Synth, Steamy Mirabelle Burlesque, Mirabella. Steamy Mirabella James and her burlesque or their burlesque. I don't know. Rebecca Mason, Lila with no last name, Anastasia with no last name, Kimberly Robertson, Sly Girl with no last name, Nancy Cant Well, Karen Sly, Elizabeth with no last name, Nicole Cutright, Derek Young, The Letter B, Lindsay Jones, Erica Richter, Andy's Kid, Stephanie Hawkins, Adrian Weholt, Heather Renner, Marissa Cunningham, Hugh Janus, that's definitely somebody's name, Brenda with no last name, Brad with no last name, Destiny Watkins, Akina, Laura Muse, Laurel with no last name, Corey McKenna, Tatiana Funderburg, Rebecca's Rebecca Martin, Lance Corporal Goblin, Naismith 220, Sonia Campos, Lauren Toon, or Tooney, Tooney, Julianne Smith, Dave Aviles, Isabel O'Brien, Susan Lake, Victoria Peck, Taylor Hahn, Nancy McMahon, McMahon probably, Manny Sierra, Jess with no last name, Vicki Gales, Christopher Hinton, Heidi Corse, Naomi and Weston Collins, Angelo Otero, Abby, Nine, Ann Camp, oh boy, Not Camp is her name, Annie Hicks, No Camp, Abby No Camp, Tamira, Tamira, Tamira, Hopkins, Kyle DeVoe, Noah Meshack, David Ellis, Nameless DeX, Holly Morton, Margu, that can't be right, Margu? It's M-I-R-G-U, that's not Margu, right? I don't think so. Jesse Hines, Laura Black, Blackberry, Jordan Lawton, Wicca Costa, Wicca Kasoda, Dana Sayers, Antoinette Apollinar, Apollinar, Apollinar, Connor M., Kelly B., Maria New, Aim K., Julie Drew, Bridget Douglas, Ben Shurtleff, Rebecca Hanson, Kyla with no last name, Samantha Gotti, Wheeler Gaming, James Dummerod, Candace Pryor, Joshua Welch, Kyle Stubbs, Sarah with no last name, Taylor with no last name, Debbie Jensen, Taryn Holt, Justin Amador, Ann Walsh, Savannah Naya, Naya, I'm not gonna get this right, Naya Gawachi, Naya Gawachi, Robin Morris, Carly Goss, Jen with no last name, Dave Clements, Cam with no last name, John Pierce, Ethan with no last name, Mary Carol Freeman, Winkler, Patricia Hernandez, Julie Furlong, Jamie Beebe, Natalie Hill, Andy with no last name, Joseph Mills, Jessica F., Tyler Mort, Hannah Schott, well, Shelly with no last name, Mr. Moose, Casey Price, Brad Critchleo, Katie Dickman, Haley with no last name, and Stacey Spitzer, you guys are the best. Thank you so much, everybody. Thank you. Fuck, these people are awesome, aren't they? Every goddamn week. Thank you so much for all that you do for us. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We can't thank you enough. Keep coming back and hanging out with us. If you want to follow us on social media, shutupandgivememurder.com has all the places to follow everything and find everything. Do that. Keep coming back. See us every week, and until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye.