(upbeat music) - I'm Matt Fowles, Director of the Park. - Linley Schmidt, I'm Integrator at Tangany Kuala Live Park. - Hello, I'm John Rossi. I'm a touring drummer with a passion for animal conservation. When I'm on the road, I spend as much time as possible visiting zoos, aquariums, and conservation organizations. Now, I want to share those places with you. I'll be talking to keepers, vets, conservationists, anyone who can help me in my mission of connecting my people to animals through their people. Join me on my Rossi Fari. - Hi, hello, how are you? Welcome back to the Rossi Fari podcast. All right, y'all, so we are back at Tangany Kuala Live for this week's episode. And as you heard in their introductions, we are talking to two of the big wigs at the zoo, Matt, and Linley. And I am really excited about sharing this episode with you all, because we dig deep into a lot of the things that I'm very passionate about in the zoological field. And also that, frankly, are big topics of discussion in the field right now. We end up talking about culture and how important that is, the evolving role of zookeepers and their connection to the public, how you get people to care about animals at more than just a surface level of excitement, what transparency looks like and doesn't look like. These are all things that y'all hear about for me all the time. And that's this entire episode. And I love it so much. I think that Matt and Linley have some really cool things to say. I think that they do a great job owning that they have been learning as they go. And one of the things that really stands out to me in this episode is how honest these two are about everything from making mistakes and growing and learning to owning the fact that Tangany Kha is a unique facility and why that is. And they even talk a little bit about how, maybe they've gotten some abuse from some other facilities because of it. And yet, this is a very joyous episode. There's a lot of really great, really deep conversation. I just, I am so excited for y'all to dig in. Of course, before we can do that, I need to remind y'all to hit subscribe so you don't miss any of the Tuesday interview episodes or Friday's, zoo news episodes. I need to remind y'all to follow along on the socials @Rasafari and on TikTok @RasafariPod. And it's been a while since I've said this, but if you like what you're hearing, please leave a rating and if possible a review on whatever place you listen, it actually is the number one way to help this podcast be found by more people and continue to grow. So that is obviously very important to me. And if you could do that, I would super duper appreciate it. Now, the other thing that I have to tell you about this episode before we dive into it is that I planned literally since the day that I recorded this, this was going to be my season five finale episode. I always aim to have the last episode of a season be super thought provoking and really just, just, you know, hit everything that I want to hit. And I was so sure I was gonna do that. And then Tanganika announced the birth of a pygmy hippo. And y'all, I cannot tell you how excited I am about that and how excited they are about that. And so I decided to scoot this up towards, you know, it's still towards the end of the season here. We've got another episode or two to go, but instead of making this the season finale, I wanted to drop it early so that all of you who listen, know to go to Tanganika's socials and check out this baby pygmy hippo because it is adorable. And we are about a year removed from Mooden being born. And now you can have a new baby pygmy hippo to obsess about. So I moved it up and I wanted to do that for Tanganika. But yeah, in my mind, this is such a great episode that it's a season finale without actually ending the season. So with that said, I will stop talking about the interview and actually let you listen to it. So here is my interview with Linley and Matt from Tanganika Wildlife Park. Enjoy. (upbeat music) Linley Schmidt and we are in Hawkins estate at Tanganika Wildlife Park, our Airbnb that's on property. I'm integrator here at the park, which means I support all of the departments in achieving our goals. - Wow, that's a really cool made up title. - Yeah. - I like that. (laughing) - I had a cooler one before I was chief of connections. - Oh, I was integrator. - Ooh, integrator sounds more accommodating. - Does it? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - I think it's great to see. - It's cool, but it's very interesting. (laughing) - So I'm Matt Fowl, some of the externally director of the park, my role, like Linley's role is integrator mine is visionary for the park here. And so most people are like my wife or like did you vision today? I think they, I don't know if they think I do a lot of mushrooms every day. I just try to have visions, but so visionary. And yeah, so and like Linley said, we're at the Hawkins estate at Tanganika. So the acronym is heat. So we're bringing the heat today. - I love it, I love it. And staying in this place has been the most ridiculous experience. I don't even know. I couldn't find my wife today. And she was here and I just couldn't find her for the record. - Find her. - But we are sitting upstairs looking over Cheetahs as we talk, 'cause you can just see the Cheetah breeding center from here. There's a Cheetah right there wagging its tail, another one walking. I'm actually amazed I've been able to do any interviews because they're just right there. - Yes, absolutely. - And this place is absolutely incredible. And so, I joke about your title and you joke about your title, but we've had a lot of weird titles today. And I feel like that goes into maybe part of what says Tanganika apart. And so why is that? And what is the idea behind having a visionary and all of these other titles? - So I mean, the visionary and the integrator come directly from a system called EOS or entrepreneurial operating system. It's based on a book by Gina Wickman called Traction. So anyone that reads the book, it's basically a system on how you operate your organization. And so we operate on that system called EOS. And so that's where those roles come from. Like they try to kind of get rid of titles, but externally in the world, like if you tell someone visionary or integrated, like I don't know what that is, but if you say I'm a zoo director, then everyone in the industry knows what kind of that entails. So we still have those titles, but I do think a lot of it comes to just get culturally where we're not just gonna do what everyone else is doing or try to have the same titles. Like we really have been very intentional with our culture especially over the last several years of doing what we think is best and trying to provide for our team and for the animals. And so that's, I mean, I just speak to that a little bit. - Yeah. I let you answer because I think titles are kind of your jam and getting creative with them. Definitely externally. Sometimes like chief of connections was, everyone was like, what do you do? What does that mean? And I'm like, well, if an animal and a human are meeting, I'm in charge of that, you know, connections. So it, I mean, it was very applicable to talk about exactly what I did, even though maybe not everybody understood what it was. - Yeah, no, that's fair. I think it's funny actually hearing you say that because it's something that I noticed here and have even mentioned in some of the other interviews that stands out to me is that almost every facility that I've been to and done experiences at. And by the way, that's one or two of them now, you know, we've done this a couple times. There is such a defined role in every part of it where the trainer does the training and the interpreter does the interpretation and whatever guest experience takes you to this line but never crosses it, you can't go over that line. And here, everyone does all the things. And well, and are trained and cross trained. And I don't, I don't even know what some of the titles of the different people that I've met, our titles were not described, which I actually never thought of until just now. But like approaching it from somebody with a lot of experience with this, you know, I went to the Cheetah behind the scenes and somebody walked me up and was talking about stuff and somebody was there with the animal and I was like, okay, cool interpreter trainer. And then as the experience went on, those roles kind of shifted. And then as they were going to do a run with the Cheetah to show me like, you know, how they interact with them and do the lower thing with them, they were just like, what would you want to do this part or this part, this part? And I was like, huh, you guys do all the things.
That's really cool. And I really think more and more, that's what the industry is going to pivot to or at least needs to, hopefully will pivot to. And that's been my number one takeaway from being here is I feel like Tanganika is maybe the place that people should be looking to in the industry to figure out how to create more authentic connections with animals and deeper connections with animals without crossing into that roadside zoom mentality that we're going to have 30 people 20 times a day handling this animal or whatever. And it's been astonishing. I mean, honestly, with the exception of honey badgers and kind of cheetahs, there aren't a lot of species here that are near like the top of my list, but the experiences have blown me away. And if you were to told me that my number one biggest connection at this park would be with a giraffe. The animal that I've met hundreds of times literally. Every time I go to a facility, they throw in a giraffe feeding. They're like, if you even want. And that was do. But I bonded so much with one of the drafts here and it was such a beautiful thing. And yeah, I just, I find it amazing. If you all want to talk about that vision a little bit, I would love that. Yeah, I mean, I think I was visiting with another zoo director just this week and there are bigger zoo than us. And they have, there's some differences, I think somewhat of a divide in the industry even on animal interactions. And it tends to swing one way or the other as far as is the public worthy or should we allow them to have interactions with animals? Or is it safe? Is it ethical? Like there's this kind of pendulum. And AZA has had the research for years talking about, like you said, interacting with animals is by far the most powerful way to touch people's hearts and to get them involved and whatnot. And so in talking with the zoo, I mean, they're big zoo that hundreds of thousands of people. And they're just, I think some of it was, I think their mindset was that if you're going to do all the experiences that we do, you kind of have to do it in that roadside manner. And where animals are forced to do things and they don't have choice and you're just, and on a scale that we're doing it, you don't have to do it that way. But it does take you to a kind of retool. Like I don't honestly believe that most big zoos could do it. And I don't honestly know that they should it. Right. I think that they're serving a certain area of the market and exposing tons and tons of people to animals, which is great for everybody. And it would be really hard for them to, I guess, do experiences that the way we do them. Because there's a lot of time and a lot of effort that goes into creating those experiences and maintaining those experiences and those behaviors. Like our team is phenomenal. And so yeah, it is different. And part of our vision, so like I'll let Lynley talk to the conservation funnel and kind of how that works. And that's kind of, I had this vision, but like, you know, so I had the visions, the ideas. And then she makes them very tangible concepts that people can easily get. And so the conservation funnel was definitely, I think some she had already come up with, but the two mixed very well. - Yeah, I'll talk about that in just a second. I think early on in my career, I was working at a facility where we did a lot of ambassador work and we wanted to add lemurs. And we were an AZA facility and they're not four primates as ambassadors. And I was young enough that I put it out on like the listserv and I was like, hey, who uses lemurs as ambassadors without knowing that there was this big white paper and this stance against primates as ambassadors. And so I got schooled a little bit and had someone take me what they felt like was under their wing and show me and his exact words were, why you can't have a lemur lived by itself in a box to be an ambassador. And so that was his view of ambassadors was that they live in smaller enclosures, they're singly housed, they're often hand raised. And that doesn't have to be the case. As a matter of fact, that usually doesn't work. Like when you hand raise an animal and you're relying on relationship and you don't provide it with the things that it needs to thrive, it hits, and a lot of people think it's hormonal, right? It's sexual maturity. But I see it as like it hits the terrible twos that everybody hits. We're like, wait, I have my own sense of self. I don't need you, my mother as my protector. You can't tell me what to do. And if you have not planned to have a positive reinforcement contingency at that point, you're going to lose that animal eventually or only one person will be able to work it, right? The person that raised it. So that's something I'm super passionate about. And I think is a misconception, even the most recent decisions by AZA about primates as ambassadors are based on the thought process that all primate ambassadors have to be hand raised or singly housed in order to be ambassadors. You've been to our lemur island. They live in their social groups. Only a couple of times. Yeah. Our rough lemurs were all parent raised. They live in social groups and yet because we have this positive reinforcement contingency, they work for those experiences and are happy to engage with the public for treats and sometimes even affection. And eight different people can work them. To your point with cheetahs, it's like who wants to do this part, everyone's cross-train, because we think that's better for the animal. I think that's something that we do really well, Matt. And I were trying to figure out how to say, we are the best at experiences. Right? I mean, I feel like you are. You can say that. But you are. You can say it on here. Like this has been insane. I want to get measurable. Yeah. Right. I want to put data behind that. But I would put our experiences up against any other ambassador experience for a ram ever and not only because of the people, but because of the animals too. To the conservation funnel point, like that's the other difference is we just have a little bit different of a goal. I see conservation as the same as a marketing funnel. So you got to have awareness. You can't want to save a bin torong if you don't know what a bin torong is, right? If you've never heard of one. Yeah. And then you have to have interest. So we've got to get you engaged in deciding like, "Ben torong are my favorite animal." I think ben torong are cool. And then maybe I can get you to take action. The normal zoo, their goal is to get as many people in the top of the funnel as possible. They are converting a small amount of those to action. Our goal is to narrow that funnel. So we want more people to-- less people in the top, but a higher percentage of them moving all the way through to like, we would love for someone to leave here at the end of an ultimate weekend and take some sort of action or behavior change that's pro environmental or pro animal. Make a donation. Plan a tree. Plan a pollinator garden. You reuse anything. So it's different. Goals are not one is wrong. Like it's not wrong to get a ton of people in the funnel. We need both. And I think that's unfortunately our industry is small. We're competitive. And I think sometimes we're like, well, we don't know how to say like, we're not going to do that. That's not us. But it's not wrong. Right. No, absolutely. And I think I mean, obviously very focused on the conservation side of things, love conservation. But I do know like I was working towards a master's in conservation biology. And I didn't really love the program. I was in some not in it anymore. But a lot of the research that I was doing at the time was I couldn't find anything about this. And I didn't have enough time to put the time in. But like I kind of wonder with certain things. You talk about the negative aspect of it. And like a great example is like, OK, there's the no-sloth selfie campaign going on right now, because people will want sloths as pets if they see a sloth selfie. And first of all, I think if you do some captioning and do some writing on stuff, you can educate while having a sloth selfie. It's not the end of the world, right? Go, go, go. But also I do wonder how many people are actually going to be tempted to get a pet sloth versus how many people will just learn and see the positive and the good stuff and the educational stuff that you post without thinking, oh, I should get one. And then even if you do think that you should get one, who would go into the illegal wildlife trade and who have the money and all that, it's so-- I should be able to do that. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I am saying maybe the one outweighs the other. And I looked for research on that. And I couldn't find it. Everything that I found was based on any comment on Instagram. And like I'll tell you obviously I went super viral with this video of me drumming with an elephant, right? And like the number one comment on it was people saying, I want to hire an elephant for my band now. They don't. It's right. They watch. Yes, yes. But like, they're not going to. Right. And so it was interesting seeing that research myself and being-- because I do think about this lot-- when I did the sloth behind the scenes here, I took great video and great photos, but I didn't take a selfie because I had that on my mind. And afterwards, I was like,
First of all, I could have posted it with an educational thing. And second of all, I wish I had a slot selfie. Just even for myself, why did I not take the time to do that? Because I believe I can reach my audience in a way that isn't going to make them run out and buy a bunch of slots. - So I have some data on that that has never been written. - Okay. - Two parts, actually. There is a paper I published about Autors where we did, we educated about Autors in three different ways. So them on exhibit by themselves with no interpretation, them on exhibit with an interpretive guide, like Keeper Talk, and then a meet and greet where you actually got to be a person with Autors. We asked the pet question, do you think Autor would make good pet? We also asked, do you think any exotic would make a good pet? And there was no difference between our three data sets. Our data was leaning in the way that if you were in a meet and greet, you would be less likely, but it wasn't statistically significant. - Fair. - So I need a bigger sample set. And then I also collected data from primate owners, so monkey moms and fox moms were the big two groups that I infiltrated and asked them, what made you want to get this? - Right. - And the answers were, I want somebody to love me forever, so I want that unconditional love and that forever child. Or it was cool, I'm like, it was a status symbol. There was one person out of 150 people that said, I saw it at a zoo where I saw it in a situation like that. So like to me, the data is there, makes me so mad that, I didn't publish it and that nobody is publish it yet, but it's there to say that if anything, it works in the opposite direction. And I agree with you, the research that's out there is based on Facebook and Instagram, even the Slalorus study, all of those things are based on, people say dumb stuff, they don't know it. - Yeah. - Or yeah, I want a monkey as a pet, I know better. - Right, you know, but would there be moments that was cool? - Sure. - Yeah. - What I do it, no. - I mean, I feel like since we, this is our 17th year and we've done literally, I don't know if it's millions, but I know it's over a million interactions on the Lima island because we track it every single year. And I mean, with that reasoning, there should be hundreds, if not thousands of families with lemurs now. - Mm-hmm. - And-- - In which shop? - Yeah, which are, wherever. - Which is hotspot. - But I'm not gonna venture to say that nobody has tried to get their hands on a lemur since doing that. But if that, just logically, if that were true, there should, like I said, hundreds or thousands of people with lemurs now in private hands that aren't, I guess-- - That were inspired. - Yeah, that were inspired. And I just, I don't, it's not there. But I do think, you know, you interviewed Dr. Sam and part of the reason that vision, recruiting her and hiring here was that we really want, there isn't much research out there about these, there is some talking about interactions, but there's a lot of, I guess, bad information put out mostly by AR groups that, you know, it's harmful to the animals or inspires these things and there's no, like, counter studies. And they don't have studies to begin with, they just say stuff. - Right. - And so I think as an industry, it's something that we're really lacking. I know ZAA is starting to do more of, but I think as institutions, we definitely need to do more of and showing, I guess, support for these connections and how powerful they are for people. And honestly, if we want to save this industry and do this for the next generation or two, like we're going to need more of that. - Yeah, and you need to do it right, which again is something I love here. There was one facility that I checked out. So my rule is I only have accredited facilities on the podcast. ZAA is great, ZAA is great, cool. Beyond that, we're gonna look. And there have been two under-credited facilities that enough people like that work at AZA facilities and stuff have recommended to me to go check on. So they're choosing to stay independent for their reasons, but we like them blah, blah, blah. So the first one I had on was Bright's Zoo. And they actually are now ZAA. And when I went there, I was like, oh my gosh, this reminds me of every ZAA facility I've been to, this is great, whatever. And the second one, I'm not gonna say who it was, but I went to check it out first because I'm going to go and check out an under-credited place before I have them on the podcast. And I was so pretty pleased. I was pretty impressed. And I did one of their animal encounters. And it was with an animal that didn't want to cooperate, didn't want to do the encounter. And they were grabbing it and ripping it from its home. And I was tearing up. I was fighting so hard and I almost left, but I didn't, I was like, I'm worried that if I do this, it will make up, like they'll do more to show the other people in the room like, no, this is fine 'cause I was the only animal person in the room. And so I sat through it and the animal, I will say, once they got out for the encounter, they were fine, they were actually very engaged. It reminded me of the kid that doesn't want to get in the tub and then doesn't want to leave, kind of. But I literally had tears in my eyes and I was like, I wanted to yell, like, get your hands off this animal. And that is the problem because one experience like that, can then make when you see an ad at Tanganika, swim with our penguins. Oh, so they're gonna grab penguins and throw them in. Meanwhile, first of all, you don't swim with the penguins. The penguin swim with you. But also they are so well cared for. It is so, it is such a different thing. But I do think that Tiger King and all of that stuff have definitely scared people away from encounters. But I also think that this industry learns the wrong lessons. I think it happened with Blackfish, a lot of facilities were like, okay, we need to shut people out from behind the scenes. We can't show them that these animals live in concrete because they're actually fine with whatever, could only show them on their beautiful habitats. Whereas I think that if SeaWorld, which I think is a fantastic facility, had been transparent about there behind the scenes orca areas and stuff, then when Blackfish came out, anybody who watched it could have compared it with the videos and I'm like, oh, this isn't actually footage from SeaWorld, which a lot of it was not, you know? And it was the lack of transparency that made it more believable that it was SeaWorld doing that stuff when a lot of it wasn't. And so like I love the transparency. One of my favorite things, I've said this a couple times now in these episodes, but I have to say again, is that when I was invited out here, there was nothing. There was no contract, there was no agreement, there was no, you will only say good stuff, there was no, you will give us four reels and two, you know? And that's fine and that's part of how the influencer thing works now and I get it. I've never gone that road yet, but y'all provided a heck of a lot of stuff for us with no guarantee that I'm not gonna get on a podcast and rail against y'all and just stood by your work and I will tell you has led to so much more, I'm sharing, so I'm gonna keep sharing more because I'm now in love with this place. I am passionate about it and I don't owe you anything. So you're gonna get more from me because now we're just partners, now we're just friends, now we're all chillin' and I just wanna promote the heck out of it because it's being done right. - That's awesome. - Yeah, that's all right, yeah, that is awesome. And I think you know, the transparent, like we're very, we're very transparent about a lot of stuff at the park, with our team as much as we can with the public. I think in the industry, especially when you get into some private facilities, there's definitely, and we suffer from it still, it's not like we're a hundred percent open book, but like, just really protecting yourself, right? Because you just never know what's gonna be that one thing that an AR group can latch onto and make your life miserable or end all the hard work that you've done for the animals and so I know within the private people, there's a lot of that. And so we, in general, like, yeah, we're behind the scenes a lot. We're showing you what we have and we take care of it. We're proud of it and we're willing to show it and like let's not do anything that we're not willing to kind of show people behind the scene or be able to explain or, you know, and so I think, that's a big part of what we try to do. So it's awesome that that's evident like in your experiences with the big time. And I think it's because you do so much experiential stuff, you guys have to be good in front and behind the scenes 'cause you're taking people back there every day and yeah, not all of them are gonna know the stuff that I know, but you're also going to notice, you know, really dirty places, and I mean, don't get me wrong, they're animals, it's gonna be messy for me. But you know what I mean? I'm cared for situations or bad situations or an animal sick in the corner or something. You will see that. - Yeah, so yeah, no, it's such a, I don't wanna use the word forced level of transparency, but the way that y'all are set up, you have to have that transparency. And it's cool, I never once was somebody like, don't film, don't shoot back here, don't take camera shot, you know, whatever, it's always okay. And can we set you up for a photo and can we do this? And it's awesome, you know? - Yeah, Xana and Rizu has areas, you know, that especially if you're higher, you all have areas that you don't love as much, right? And there's definitely areas we would definitely improve our will and
at some point continue improve, but yeah. - Well, and it's all contextual as well. I worked for a facility in one of our sister facilities had someone who did a podcast, came out, got themselves behind the scenes. They were actually an annual rights activist. They took photos and holding. They did not allow photos and holding. And when the photo came out, I was like, I would put that on a billboard. Like that, that was a tiger, was laying on his bench. The area was pristine. He had this lovely, Scush, fire hose bench that he was laying on. He looks super healthy, very common content. Obviously there's a stranger in his space taking the photo and he's just like no stress response, no lockdown target, no nothing. Just, and I was like, that's a happy tiger. And I don't like to use that word. That's a happy tiger in an awesome habitat. I would put that on a billboard. But that company had been very secretive and hidden and not transparent for protecting themselves, worried that somebody would do just that. And yeah, I think I learned a lot from that because I was like, well, had we just been saying, like, look, this is what a happy tiger looks like. And educating them on how we know or decide if an animal is happy or not and inputs and outputs and welfare and all that great stuff, they would not have, to your point about SeaWorld, they don't have nearly as much runway as they do. So both Matt and I pushed a lot for that, makes us uncomfortable sometimes. And even the team at certain points, and there's still times where we're not 100% comfortable sharing animal loss on social media or things like that. One of the most recent things that we did is there might be times where we as a company don't feel comfortable sharing something on social media, just don't see the points in it. But we have created an SOP for our team so that they can still share it on their pages. And so this is what it looks like to share it in a professional way versus this is what we'd rather not see. And so still trying to find that compromise of like, if we're not going to share every move, every acquisition, disposition, birth, death, whatever, illness, sickness, you know, every milestone of life. But you still, we see that that's important for your healing, your grieving, your celebration. Here's how you do it in a way that supports us, the animal, the industry and all of those things. - That's really cool. I don't think the transparency means telling everyone everything, just like in our lives, you can all be transparent with people, but I'm not telling you everything that's happening. - Right. - You know, I, whoo, I got some stories, y'all. But and yeah, no, and I think that's something that a lot of people in the social media age, they feel that they're owed everything. But that's just not possible. You guys post more than almost any facility I know. And even with that, you can't tell every, there's so many animals, like you so many cheetahs, just right out there. Like you just can't do that. And I think sometimes a special, you know, AR groups and stuff like that, they use that to say like, oh, you're not being transparent because we heard that, you know, oh, whatever died. It's like, well, yes, but we also announced this, and we also announced this. And if we announced every time that a medical guest or his and cockroach died, our social would just be really effing sad. (laughing) - I love it, you know, like, you know, like, operas that have, you know, get GPOs and they live a year because they live a year. And that's what happened. The few announced every one of those. People are gonna be like, oh, you guys killed octopus because they don't know. And yeah, it's a weird balance. But I think that transparency is not telling everything, but also not being ashamed of who you are. And that's something I think y'all nail. Awesome, you know. That's really good. - It's one of our core values. So yes. - Nice, good. - So since we have the big wigs here, let's talk about your team a little bit. Because again, I have been supremely impressed. And so what goes into the team building here? And what sets the culture apart here? - I mean, I think from the beginning, when Matt and I first met, we met at a conference. And the first time we met, I was talking about connections through ambassador experiences and how important those are and how they should be done right. And then the next time I was talking about culture and how you are the problem. I was talking to a room full of zoo directors and owners and curators. I'm like, you guys are the problem. And that was like, you have to come here. You know, like I've never met anyone in the industry that thinks about culture the way you do. And it's the way I do. And so we saw so much eye to eye on what leadership was, what culture was, what supporting our team was. And I think both challenge each other to continue to be better at that. Matt's very, like I'll let you talk about, like you decided to come here so that you could be intentional about culture. But we continually improve on, you talked about how all of our team is guest focused. Like you don't get to work here if you don't wanna interact with guests, right? There's not a position here where that is a comfortable spot if you're, because everybody has to do it. So if that's not your jam, you're gonna be uncomfortable at some point. So you better know, like this is a deal breaker. When we're hiring, we share our deal breakers. So we talk about why people quit, why people leave, what they're gonna hate, why they're not gonna wanna work here. What's gonna make them go storm into the bar to be like, can you believe? We want you to know that before you get here so that you can make the decision whether or not that's a deal breaker for you or something that you enjoy. We also share, when everyone hires on, we share the stages of team development. There are expectations that they're gonna go through a storming phase with their team where they're not gonna get along and they're gonna have to jockey for position and decide what's happening. And six months in, we send another letter out that's like, hey, you're probably at your six month honeymoon where you're like, what did I do? Why do I wanna work here again? Like that's normal. So we try and set really good expectations. I, that's my jam. Like I believe in bridging the gap between leadership and frontline staff through communication and us getting better at communicating, you know, making animal people, people, people, people. If I had a slogan, that's probably my slogan. And so, but Matt and I were already using a lot of the same language, like, assume best intent seek to understand and what's within your circle of influence. And so we were already geeking out on the same stuff. So I think combining our philosophies together is what drives the culture, but then we need our people to believe it by and live it every day, right? Like you, it can't just, like Matt talks about the inverted pyramid. Like we are at the bottom of the pyramid holding everybody up and supporting everybody. And that's like I hope that our team feels that. Oh, I, that's sure how we try to be intentional. We're also human, so we screw up. But in general, like we want to servant leadership is, is, is our philosophy. But I mean, Matt left, Matt made a decision to come run a zoo, leaving a very profitable, personally profitable job because he's that passionate about culture. So, yeah, I mean, and so when I left and we started building Taneika, it was around, well, you started the process, I guess we were opening around 2007. And even though we had been breeding animals for a long time, never, and we did some backyard tours, we, we, never, we weren't a zoo, right? So my first experience and, and my mind, part of the reason I left is I got the opportunity to build this organization and create this culture because the, the place I was at that paid me a lot more money, culture was terrible. Like it was any stereotypical toxic culture that you want, you know, throw up like that, that is where I was. And so I was like, I want to do it from the ground up. Turns out it is way harder than you think. And, and so, so I, but I, you know, it's reading a lot of books and, and trying to, trying to learn, trying to grow as a leader. And at the time, there was definitely people that as we were trying, I was trying to build the zoo and, you know, different zoo directors around the country, people we looked up to, I looked up to, on just trying to get advice, you know, how do you give shopping, concessions, or whatever it was, just different areas, because I was more operation side. My dad did more of the animal side at that time. And, but when it came to people and culture, all these people that I had looked up to, like, you, you'd, you'd quiz them and they just like, I don't know, I just, it is what it is kind of thing.
And it's a lot like your animals, right? If you don't work them, if you don't train them, they're just these, you know, if you didn't do anything with them, they'd be this wild beast, right? And they just stand up being the way they are. You have to be very intentional and trained and work with them and groom. And so I'm trying to figure it out. I feel like I'm out here in the middle of the ocean trying to figure all this out. And then, you know, here's Lindley on her cruise ship. Like, oh my God. So I was like, yes, please come join me and let's party on the ocean. But I'm wearing Kansas. So I'm nowhere near the ocean. I could not love this analogy more. I know we are again. I don't know where it's going. So yeah, I was like, let's hear somebody else that gets culture that is, you know, does an awesome job at communicating it and could help me build it. And so yeah, I started recruiting her back to Kansas and she joined more in that connections role where she was helping facilitate all the experiences and really building those up. 'Cause we were only doing maybe a couple experiences when she started and that was an area that I knew we definitely wanted to grow. And so she really started there, but definitely transitioned into more of this integrated role where she's really building the culture at the park and trying to take all my crazy ideas and make them happen. So, but yeah, it's, you know, but as far as what, I think it starts with our core values. You know, we love first, own it, grow or die and then refuse to lose. Those are our four core values that really define the environment of the park, right? And we like to talk about, if you're a plant, that's our jungle, if you will. Like that's the environment we are. So if you're a cactus, you're not gonna do very well on this environment, but you're gonna thrive in a desert. And so like-- - Not in the ocean that we are in. - Not in the ocean. It's a cruise ship so we can play somewhere. So you gotta be seaweed, I guess. I don't, that's where you're gonna do well. So yeah, like that, and I think within our industry, there's toxic and red flag. All this stuff all the time. And I think a lot of times, people just end up in the wrong environment. It's like it's not a good fit for them. And you see sometimes too where they don't, they wanna, I mean, it's almost like a marriage, right? You're uprooting your life, moving to a whole new city. All that goes around that, all the emotion that goes around that, all that, just, all, and so like, yeah, we wanna be very clear with you. Like, here's the deal breakers. Here's what this environment is all about. Like if you share these core values, you are gonna thrive here. If you don't, I'm not gonna say you're not gonna grow or that you aren't gonna survive, but it's not gonna be fun. And so, you know, really understanding who you are and the kind of environment that you are, I think is important. It took us a few years to really dial that in. And I don't know if you're ever done with that, but then being able to communicate that with, you know, so you learn who you are, and then you have to be able to find people that will thrive in those environments. And so through the hiring process and those kinds of things, you can slowly build an incredible culture, but it takes time. - I should also, like, I feel like I would be a miss if I did not say that there are a lot of people out there who have worked at Tengeneca before, who would be like, what the hell are they talking about? That culture sucked, right? - Really? - Okay. - There was-- - Target transparency. - I mean, there was many years where it wasn't great. Well, we were trying to figure it out. And then, I mean, like, I think everybody, I think there's a misconception that culture is passive for the employee that like, it's your victim to it or your recipient of it, one or the other, but you don't have any active ownership in it. And I think so that is also a challenge. We can think everything that we want, but like, we need you to engage in that for it to work. And so that part of it is still in the works, right? And then people, keepers are young and new, typically when their eyeshirts heck didn't know who I was, what my values were, where it was important to me when I started in this industry. So there's also this discovery, like, I can tell you what our deal breakers are. And you're like, yeah, I think I can handle that. And then you get here and you're like, no, I hate that. Right. And I'm going, I told you so. But you don't know that. So I am very proud of our culture. I love our team. I think our, I would put up our team, I say it's better than everyone else because I'm a little competitive in that way. And I like, no, no, if you're catching on to that. But I, there are definitely people who were cactus. And not, maybe that's not fair, because that's like an analogy that literally, right? But that didn't thrive in this environment. And there's definitely people we did a disservice to, we weren't there as leaders, we hadn't grown as leaders. We didn't know how to, how to provide for them that we've failed. So that's something we're constantly fighting because we're changing really fast here. And when there's a job posting up, you'll see people that are like, ooh, you know, like, ask me. And your comment that you made once about, like, if you think we have more red flags than a pop-up course, keep on moving. But you know, just, and I think that goes for all facilities. Everyone is growing and changing. Everyone is trying to provide better wages for their, their keepers. Everyone, everyone is trying. Even if it doesn't feel like it, they are trying. And so you cannot take the word of someone who worked at a facility five to seven years ago and feel like you have a good idea, maybe nine to three years ago. Have a good idea of what their culture is at that moment. I think that's true. I think it's also true that teams vary a lot. I've been to facilities, again, not going to name any names. But where like anyone who I think is good at training, I would recommend for this one particular team at a facility. But I would also tell everyone that I like to stay the heck away from another team. - Right. - This new facility. But they're just night and day. And those two teams even have, you know, internal conflict at said facility. And I've seen a lot of it. And so I do think, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think there's a lot to that. The interesting thing about it to me here is just how much the culture stands out to me, doing this a lot. I was, Zoe and I were talking earlier. And so I have a son who lives in Pennsylvania who I see fairly regularly, you know, try to see him as much as I can. And he's 10 right now. And if he was older, I would be pushing, I want to come work here. I really do. And you know, Zoe's a vet. And maybe in a couple of years, as you guys are looking to expand, maybe that'll be a time. But I find myself, I am a person who, you know, came into this animal world from a weird place. I'm a drummer and I've worked my way into this through the podcast. But now I volunteer for conservation organizations. And I volunteer at different facilities, you know, aquarium of Niagara and the stuff at wildlife world. We were talking about everything. And I've done hands-on training with a bunch of species and all this stuff now. And like, I keep debating like, 'cause I also really love drumming and touring. And I'm like, but do I want to like be in this industry or not? And this is the first place where I have genuinely felt even before talking to y'all here for this, that like, this would be a place that would know how to use the Rossafari side of me and build the training side and all that stuff. And like, I feel like I could contribute to a team here. Now, I love you guys, not gonna have to Kansas right now. Maybe in a few years, who knows? That is one of the hardest, but it's one of the hardest. I know, it's like, you know, it's, we get all the weather, all the pollen zones, all the wind. Like it's, I think you might be able to convince Zoe to come out and join your vet team right now if we can stay in this house. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's just, yeah. I don't know, it's got, my recruitment package, not this house, but there was like, we have somewhere for you to stay. So I mean, like, I don't, I mean, I made it as easy as possible. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, and like I said, that was mentioned with Sam too. Like, it's interesting to me that you seem to know what you want and what you're looking for and go out and fight for it in a world where in an industry where a lot of people, you know, I do agree with you that everyone's trying to do better. I know that's not true. I don't agree with you. I hope everyone is trying to do better. And I think most places are. Yeah. But I do also know that it is a industry of passion and mine is too, and it's very hard. And I will tell you, there are a whole lot of gigs that I don't get offered because somebody's gonna do them for 400 bucks a week. And that kind of thing happens. And whatever, I'm doing fine. But I do think there are places that do a lot of that and have the attitude of like, well, if I can't get this person who gives a crap, there are 20 other people and new graduates every year and there are only so many zoos. And hearing about how you've gone after people, in a good way, that's what we're gonna say. But how you stop. Yes, exactly, yes. No, but hearing about that is really cool because it's actually,
sounds like you really find the people you want and find ways to make it work. And that's just really special. This is the first time I have ever been at a facility where I was 100% like, God, I feel like I could work there. I feel like, 'cause I don't know, I mean, it's such a weird little place in my own world and in my own head and insecure about how I came into this world and everything, you know? That it's really cool that I feel that way. - That's awesome. - Yeah, no, I could not have loved this trip more. And I came into it with as little knowledge as possible and with an open mind, but also, like I said, very ready to, my audience knows I will be honest. If I see a problem, I'm gonna point it out and if the facility hates me for it, there are other zoos. But, you know, I try to work with places, I'm like, these are them, but like, no, but this has been the most amazing experience and we wanna come back and we wanna, I'm dead serious that, you know, in a couple of years, maybe when you guys are ready to do the Safari Park, and I drive through thing that I've been carrying rumors about. - Yeah. - I'm like about that a minute, but if you might get another vet at that time or something, you know, Zoe loved it here too. We both have this attitude that like, we're both like Holy Cow, this is incredible. And that's really special. - Yeah. - You know, I've been to between zoos aquariums or rescue three hats, all that stuff, like 180, you know? And to walk into a place and be like, no, this is actually like, feels like home, is really special. But let's talk about the plans for the future and the hopes for the future. - Yeah, so I mean, you know, we were 17, this is our 17th years as a zoo wildlife park. I mean, we're trying to give like, we're not a zoo or something different, but our 17th year, and I think we're teenager, you know, and a lot of that kind of figuring out who we were, discovery, all that has happened a lot those last couple of years, but I think. - We definitely went through middle school. (laughing) - Yeah, we got bullied a lot the last couple of years, and it's been a little rough, but, you know, again, through any of that, you grow and you learn, and we transitioned to a new model this year, where we're all like this all inclusive, and we kind of replicated the discovery code model, you know, SeaWorld's discovery code, but doing more of a terrestrial version, you know, no lazy rivers or dolphin swims, unfortunately, but, yeah. (laughing) But, yeah, so, you know, you come, and the idea was to create, you know, I love the atmosphere there, as far as this carefree timelessness, where you can really connect with your family, not as many opportunities to connect with the animals beyond the dolphin swim, and obviously here, that's a huge part of what we do, is the connecting to the natural world as well, but, and so we made that transition, but as far as, you know, next phase, we're working on a new animal experience center, that'll allow us to facilitate more meat and greets and behind the scenes, and bigger numbers, like, not like thousands numbers, but like right now in our soft behind the scenes, you can barely fit six people in there, like, and it's kind of like, I can't imagine how you can fit six. Yeah, so there were three of us on the first time. I think we kept it at six, because that's a rough, so the new room would hold maybe 10, right? Like, and just more comfortably. So it's not like you're gonna have tons and tons of people, but just, and it actually centralizes a lot for our animal experience team, where instead of animals being scattered all over the park, and have them take them to the room where you do the meat and greets that all be like located right there. Again, still the idea from Columbus Zoo and their animal encounters village, right? Like, most everything here at the park, honestly, there's very little that's 100% original. - I'm so glad you showed this. - Oh my God. - Yeah, and like, so we were here, and we were talking through stuff early on, right? And when I got here, I'm not gonna lie. I had this little bit of like, okay, they brought us out here, this is kind of a big deal. You know, and so he was like, oh my gosh, it's like they stole this from Nashville, and oh my gosh, this is like, they stole this from Columbus, and I was like, shut up, don't say that. What if people hear you that's gonna be so bad? Meanwhile, you guys were like, yeah, we stole this from Columbus. - What did we steal from Nashville? - Oh, I passed from exhibit. - Yes, that's right. - Yeah, okay, yeah, I passed from exhibit. - You are correct. - And fairness, Nashville stole the kangaroo encounter from us. - Okay, Rick Schwartz took that from us. - So it's all fair, but I mean, the Lorraine counter, like wildlife world zoo in Phoenix was like the first to do a lot of Lorraine counters. My wife and I went around the world on our honeymoon, and kangaroo walkthroughs there are every zoo, like we have pettings you goats with goats, right? Like they're all over and you can feed in theirs. And I was like, why aren't we doing this in the States? And so, yeah, we brought that back. Leamer walkthroughs are very common in Europe. And so again, why aren't we doing Leamer walkthroughs? So yeah, like we're just taking the coolest best stuff from all over the world and trying to put it in one location. So you have this incredible, I guess, amazing experience. I was gonna say one day, but honestly, people spend three days here doing stuff. So like case in point. - I mean, we did two days of full encounters. Plus I got to do some cool stuff today in between the interviews. But yeah, no, there's still stuff we didn't do. There were people that I was talking to, like on staff and they were like, oh my gosh, did you do this one? Did you do it? And I was like, no. How many days would you have to be holding out on a spot? - Well, we make ridd it a little. You know, like it's off the menu and we bring you back on the menu. But yeah, it's, I don't know, there's a lot of stuff. Where was it going all that? - You were saying you're building the Animal Experience Center. And then-- - Oh yeah. Oh my God, you guys are just such a good team. - I'm sure you were talking. - Combining that. So there will be, there are, that'll like make that village kind of tie that all in together and enhance a lot of those encounters and experiences. And then, yeah, the Safari Park, we have about 40 to 50 acres that we wanna build. It'll be drive through in that, like you'll take a trackless train or you can take a truck, like you would at maybe Animal Kingdom and Disney. Or I'm really hoping to build a kayaking experience through the middle of it where-- - Forever, yeah. - So it's incredible. - So instead of just around the one island, like it'll be through the whole Safari Park. And, you know, like you're on the, on this ambisi in Africa, I think it'll be pretty phenomenal. And then, you know, with that in the Vinc Center, some, you know, walk through African exhibits, a new eating space where we call it the commissary where it'll have a glass wall. So on the backside is all the animal diets and on the front side is all the people diets. - Oh my gosh. So there's just a lot of like really cool stuff. I Safari camp right in the middle, kind of recreating one of my parents favorite camps in Africa. We're gonna try and recreate that in the middle of the Safari Park. And then, yeah, adding some lodging and some other stuff later just so that people that are traveling here have a place to stay 'cause we're on the edge of Wichita. So, but you, other than the one, well, two hotels and gotter technically, you're five to seven miles away from any stays. So having something a little closer other than this house, which doesn't fit a whole lot of people would be good. So, fits two people really well. If you each want to sleep in a different bedroom every night. You said cleaning here or staying here, but this house actually has 12 bathrooms in it. And I don't know if Zoe wants to clean that many bathrooms. Maybe you have to clean that many bathrooms. I don't know, anyone wants to clean that many bathrooms? - So his favorite thing is cleaning. - So actually, I think that would be relaxing for her. Even the 11 we didn't use. You're like, I cleaned this bathroom too. (laughing) - No, that's awesome. That all sounds incredible. That's so cool. I am happy to come back as those things open up. And try and out. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, all of it is, I guess it's important. I mean, our tenure target is to do one million while moments in a single year. And so, and a while moment for us is typically to find his name on interaction. So, we want to be able to facilitate a million of those. And one year, now whether those are all at this facility or maybe we have some additional facilities, other places around the country, who knows what'll happen. But yeah, that's our tenure target. So everything that we're doing expansion-wise is focused through that lens, right? It has to be creating these while moments that instill lifetime memories for people. And if we can't do that, then we're probably not gonna build it, we're not gonna do it. So everything is focused on that, creating these awesome, unbelievable experiences for people. It's so funny to me how the things that you guys are saying in this room keep reflecting what I just experienced for the last couple of days, like almost to a ridiculous level. Like I said, like, where Zoe and I have literally talked about things and that's another one. I, again, I do this stuff all the time. And we were going through photos and so he's like, look at your face, look at your stupid face in these photos. You were having such a good time. And you know, I take, if I had a dollar for every time, I fed a draft, like I said, whatever. But in that moment, I'm like, ah, I'm so, and it's so obvious in the pictures and the videos. And we keep laughing about it. And it's exactly what you're saying though. They are true while moments. And you can see it in my entire face. And as somebody who does, I can't even imagine coming into this, coming into the last two days that I've had, three days that I've had now. As somebody who hasn't done this stuff all day, I'm dead. I would just be a puddle of joy out in the park that you guys would have to mop up. And like, I'm not saying this to kiss, but it's just the truth. Anyone who listens to this podcast knows, I love this stuff. I get excited all the time, but like, I also have resting be face. And I also, you know, sometimes, I just see those photos. And here you describe them as well moments and be like, yep, no, I have pictures that back what you're saying right now of my stupid face. Just lit up like a 12 year old boy just being like, ah, this is so cool, you know? It's so-- - I will take all of those. - Yeah, it's-- - Put them in the market. - There will be many shared posts. Yes. No, it's just funny. You know, I go to facilities and I do interviews and I go and explore them or I go and explore them and then I do interviews. And sometimes you have this.
You have this connection where it's like, yes, you get exactly what you're saying. And then sometimes it's like, huh, you and I see your park very differently. And that's fine. And I'm still learning and like that's cool. Like there's, you know, maybe I miss things or whatever. But to have this weird moment where you keep saying stuff. And I'm like, oh, yes, this was my experience of that. Oh, yes, Zoe and I saw that and discussed that. It has been really special, you know? It's a nice cap to all of this. Is there anything else that either of you want to say before we get wrong in here? I feel like we hit a lot of the really, I mean, like it's, it's a lot of the things that are important to us. But I think it's just great to, I mean, this has been really reinforcing for me. A, to hear, you know, you can dream it, you can want it, you can be trying to do it. But to have the affirmation come back that like you, hey, hey, what you're doing is working. Like as leaders, and for anyone listening who has a leader, they don't get told they're doing a good job very often. So giving a shout out, let them know that what they're doing is working. So it's been nice to hear like, hey, what you're doing is working. Or I see what you're doing. That has meant a lot. So thank you for giving us an opportunity. Yeah, thank you, definitely. So I just had thought when you're talking and I've lost it. Oh, no, thank you. Sweet. No, you're fine. Well, if it comes back to you, we can always edit it in. But otherwise before we get going, our last two, our conservation organization you'd like to give a shout out to. A space that drafts. Draft conservation foundation. Yeah, GCF. Yeah, they're great. They were on the pod and we love Steph, Tennessee and all of that. Yeah, they do amazing work. Yeah. So I, you know, obviously we're big, a big draft facility. And, and so definitely they're doing good work and want to support them. Mine would be Enri Forest Station. They're one of the, one of the only places working in Madagascar to Reforest. And they, they work with the local populations to protect, to become protectors of the forest and plant trees that not only help the habitats, but also help the people who who live there too. So I love their mission. They work in a lot of different places. But it's my lemur, lemur tie, um, tomato gaskar. Cool. Next time I don't know, we're pumped to the end of the show. But there's one tale left to go. You're gonna laugh and say, oh no, it's time for the rancid furry poop story. I know mine, but he and me. Goat. Yeah, I need a minute. And so mine goes back to Moore Park. I was a Moore Park grad. Nice. And there was a mandrel there, Zulu. And he was a, somebody's pet before he came to the zoo. So a mandrel? Uh-huh. They used to, they used to dress him up. No, um, said at the table. Anyway, I have thoughts. But go ahead. I'm sure you do. I do too. They loved him. So there's that. And he probably had a very nice life. But he had a bad habit of how he interacted with any con toys. And I won't go into like super details. But there was a lot, like, there was a lot of cleaning out of cons of, you know, mandrel stuff. Not poop. No, I'm what you want, Miss. Yeah. And I mean, I know a lot of animals that love their cons. Yeah, not like this. This is different. Yeah. This is a different kind of love. And that was, and even on his like decking, having to use a knife to scrape that substance out of the groups between the decking boards, that's probably the grossest. That's one of my favorite I've ever had on the podcast. He's mandrel. So I was even saying he's, I just don't even know that all. Like, I, you know, it's, uh, I haven't, I've been in the barns in such a long time. But I, and I was young. So I think I just did a lot of stuff that I just didn't even think about it at that time. But it was a lane. That's lane. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm really going to have to work on that. I feel like you can maybe add that back in. I feel like your poop story would have to do with the splash park, you know, and cleaning up human poop. Like, that's a different one. Well, I mean, I've done that. Like, people are animals, right? Like, you, you just never, like, you never thought like, yeah, you get like a coat orange and someone just crapped in the corner of the bathroom. Like, they're in the stall with the toilet. But they just picked an opposite corner and took it, took it down. And like, that's, that's happened multiple times. It's not like it happened once. Like, it's happened multiple times. And so you're cleaning out your, or I mean, yeah, the splash park, because then it gets super runny. And they're really trying to like clean it. So I mean, it's probably been human feces. I feel like human stuff is so much worse just because we know it's human. And we know that they know better. You know, like, yeah, no, I'll never forget my first weekend in college. And I was not at a place where I should have got to college. I should have taken a break, whatever. But 18 years old, went off to college, was not ready for this in any way. And the first Monday morning, I walked into the bathroom in my dorm and drunk people have been part of the weekend before and had just crapped everywhere. I mean, it was smeared on stall walls and on the bathroom, like windows and I was just like, I can't do this. And I think right then, I should have called my parents and been like, I am not ready to be here because I knew that. I knew that already. But yeah, instead it took a very rough semester for me to figure that out. And that's okay. But I will never forget that. I do this day can picture it and can smell it. And I would rather pick any animal. I would rather clean up mandrel jizz than walk into that bathroom again. So yeah, I got it. I was going to say earlier, very reinforcing. So that was the thing that, like, we, you know, the new model and the transition, like, where we've been headed. I feel like in some ways it's been trailblazing, right? Like there's nothing else like it. I've had other very traveled directors and stuff just say, there's, you know, this is a very unique experience. There's nothing else like it in the world, which I kind of blew my mind a little bit. But for locals, especially, it's been a tough transition, right? Like we're the first to do something. And a lot of times when you're the first, you get chastised, you get told you're crazy, that it's never going to work. That, you know, I mean, some of them are even like, we hope you fail just to prove that it won't work, right? Which our fourth core value is for Fuse to lose. Just the two of us, it fires us up. It's like, all right, hold my beer. Here we go. So it doesn't work on us. But it's not like you're immune to it. And so just, you know, all the stories and testimonies you shared were like amazing. Like that was just incredible here, all of that. And to see that, yes, where we're headed, where we've been working towards, it is, it's, you know, coming to fruition and we're achieving it. So that's awesome. You are. And I make so much sense with the funnel thing. When you said the funnel thing, and how like we do need those zoos, that the other kind, the normal kind, the kind I talk to all the time in love and adore, and we'll be at tomorrow on the next day. And it's all great. I love it. Pushing everyone in. And then you're at that. That was really, I'm going to be thinking about that a lot. That was very cool. She's amazing at that. Yeah, that was very cool. But I, the other nail in it. Yeah, thank you. So thank you guys for doing this. And thank you for all of this. This has been an insane three days. And we're happy to host you. So thanks for coming out. Yeah. [MUSIC] All right. So there you have it folks. The big wigs at Tanganika talking all about culture and about animal encounters. And I just think that is, to me, that was one of the most interesting episodes I've ever put out. Those are all topics that I'm super passionate about and that I feel like are super relevant in the industry right now. And I thought there were some really cool takes on all of that. I'm guessing you could tell because I basically couldn't shut up. Because I was so excited to talk about it all. But I do again want to thank the entire team at Tanganika for hosting us and giving us such an incredible trip. But also for just being who they are. And I mentioned towards the end of the episode that funnel concept again. And I mentioned I'd be thinking about it a lot. And I have been and I've actually talked to a lot of people at other facilities about it. I find it fascinating. This idea that zoos and aquariums in general can work as the top of the funnel. But then what do you do for the next level? How do you inspire the people that were inspired by a zoo trip or an aquarium trip or whatever to go deeper and to connect more? And how do you connect with those people at their level? And that is what Tanganika is doing. And I find that fascinating. Yeah, I'm really curious to hear what you all thought about this episode. I think there were a whole lot of nuggets to chew on in this one. And so yeah, let me know what your thoughts were. And I look forward to hearing from you. I am going to take a moment now to say thank you to my patrons. And don't forget, you can support the pod for as little as $3 a month by going to patreon.com/rossafari. And I especially want to say thank you to my red panel level patrons, Dr. Larishank, Dr. Steven Williamson, Barbara Bennett, Jenny Owens, Melissa Reed, Kerry Kirkpatrick, and John Lewis, who is also here for stickers and Kevin Williams. And with all of that said, we'll be back on Friday with the new episode of Zoon News, but in time. Until then, remember friends, the word credits backwards is stider. The Rossafari podcast is produced, hosted and engineered by John Rossi, editing and fact checking by John and Dr. Zoe Rossi. Our theme song is "Sevens" by Nathan Burke, performed by Nathan and John. Interrupting John theme and additional voices by Taylor Isaac Gray. You can reach John directly on Instagram and Facebook at Rossafari for by email at
[email protected]. Rossafari is part of the Daydreamer Media Network. Now, stop listening to me and go visit a zoo!
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