Speaker 1Dr. Mala.
Speaker 2Hi.
Speaker 1Hi.
Speaker 2How are you, Anthony? Yeah.
Speaker 1I'm doing well, thank you. How are you?
Speaker 2Good, good, thank you.
Speaker 1I'm really excited to talk to you today. I appreciate you reaching out. I, you know, I'm really, as I'm along on this podcast journey, I'm learning so much and more than I expected to learn, to be honest with you. And it's a beautiful thing because recovery is not the same for everybody, right? And I think, you know, we were talking about that before we jumped, before we hit record here, that there's, it's a different path for everyone. It's unique. It's deeply personal. And I'm excited to get into that with you.
Speaker 2Me too. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1So you are currently the Chief Clinical Officer at recovery.com.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1And I'm, you know, I've spent a lot of time on this website, actually. It's really useful, really cool. Is it global or is it just North America?
Speaker 2Nope, global.
Speaker 1Okay, that's what I thought. Because I'm pulling it up and I see all the treatment centers, you know, near me in Canada. And there's a lot on here that I didn't even know existed, right? And, you know, there's a deep dive about everyone, all the information. It's kind of like, it's like, it's like Airbnb for recovery, for rehab, you know, maybe not as pleasant to stay, but, or, or, or a start, but same idea. So let's dive right into it. Do you want to start with kind of your personal experience and how you ended up in recovery?
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Or working in recovery?
Speaker 2Absolutely. Yeah. So my experience, of course, started like so many. I started in childhood where, um, I experienced childhood trauma, um, and that was particularly, it was sexual trauma. And then, um, thankfully my, my mom was an advocate for me. My dad was an advocate for me. Um, and then, you know, I was trudging forward through just life and then ended up bumping into, unfortunately, a lot of racism and bullying in school, um, growing up primarily in a Caucasian environment. I was definitely a minority at the time. And for me, it was really interesting because I didn't think of it that way. You know, I didn't think of myself as necessarily different from anyone else. Um, but I quickly learned that I was, but that continued. And, um, and then unfortunately, uh, fast forward a little bit, I ended up in a very, uh, bad relationship. So experienced intimate partner violence. So, yeah, fast forward, unfortunately I was, um, I got involved in a bad relationship, um, that involved intimate partner violence. Um, it was an engagement, long-term engagement. Um, and while I was doing that or while that ended up happening, I was actually in school for, um, getting my master's and, uh, you know, getting my master's in marriage and family psychology. And, um, it was this really odd kind of sense of denial that a, that this was happening to me. And then once I confronted it and was like, this is wrong, you know, and came to that, landed on that, the shame, you know, like you're, you're in this field of healing and recovery and trying to make family systems and relationships work and here you are, you know, so the shame that I put on myself was really massive. Um, but thankfully, uh, I had beautiful mentors and was able to talk to them and they served, they were psychologists. So they served as my, um, guide to basically realize that I needed treatment. I needed to be, you know, receiving services. And so I did. And between my mentors and my therapist at the time, it was so funny because I had a set of people who were very psycho dynamically driven and a set of therapists who were very cognitive behaviorally driven. And I got both sides and both therapeutic approaches to help me on my healing journey and knew that just the talk therapy and the processing and all of that, um, wasn't going to be enough and that I needed more. Um, so I was in a time at that point where integrative approaches to healing was not a thing, um, and to talk about something like ancillary or holistic services was kind of considered woo woo. Um, but I realized very quickly that yoga, dance, singing, meditation were such vital parts of my upbringing and my childhood and my retreat from everything that I'd experienced that that needed to be part of my healing journey. And so I cobbled together my own recovery program. In addition to receiving my therapeutic and mentorship services. And, um, that's what got me through and, um, I, I cherish it every single day, you know, so, so that for me, like, that's when I realized the passion for wanting to really push forward integrative programming and really discuss and talk about and consult with people, um, on what true integration. Of services means, um, and not just being a multidisciplinary treatment center, you know, but truly having connectivity between providers and all of that. So, um, coming out of school, I was, you know, really, um, very passionate. I found my passionate passion rather in developing programs and really singing that song of, of integration. And that's what took me down this path of my career, my career path. Um, and not just providing, um, one-on-one or group services, but rather doing more administrative and executive, uh, type work so that we could, you know, hit more people in a positive way. We could help more people in a positive way. And that was my mission. I realized, you know, it's like, I want to be able to not just help the person sitting across from me, but I want to help the masses as much as I possibly can and, you know, how we can do that. And that was my mission. I realized, you know, it's like, I want to be able to not just help the masses as much as I possibly can and, you know, how we can do that. Is through effective programming and development and education. So, yeah.
Speaker 1I love that. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. What, like, to me, I feel like the hardest part of going through trauma and getting out of any, any trauma or any traumatic experience and beginning the journey of healing and recovery is kind of like telling that first person, right. Or, or saying that first thing. Was that hard for you to do to kind of like that, that, that first one? How did you do that?
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, so not only was I living in a time where receiving therapy and psychology just as a profession was stigmatized greatly. So even when I went to my parents and I said, I'm going to go major in psychology, they're like, wait, what are you okay? You know, and of course the answer to that was yes and no, you know, but the, the biggest thing is being, for me, the step was first saying, yeah, I'm going into this profession. But I also can go back to a time when I, I witnessed as a child, also other people being abused. And that was also traumatic for me, but I also wanted to be that person in, in that moment where somebody needed to cry. I wanted to be the shoulder. I wanted to sit down and I wanted to talk, you know? So the other part of my story was I wanted to be a doctor ever since I was a kid. And I got into an experience. accelerated program um that was a med school you know based program medical program um went in and then started to get reprimanded for spending more than five minutes with my patients and you know like the the whole thing was you got to get in and out of there and i was like i can't i can't do that i have to sit down and i have to talk to people and i have to learn what's going on and so i felt lost right and then when i found biopsychology that was the first jaunt my parents that's where my parents were like wait a second what you know what can you do with that um but in general you know like the way culture so many cultures bring their children up is you live in silence there's stoicism that is um considered to be a sign of strength and that reinforces silence and if you have to talk to anybody you're only talking to your your family members if at all and you don't let it go you're only talking to yourself you're only talking to yourself you're only talking to yourself you're only talking to yourself you're only talking to yourself you're only talking to yourself and i knew that was wrong you know so um and not healing and not helpful i mean of course you can lean on your family members but sometimes you of course need more and they're your family members aren't your therapist so so yeah you know so i you know really learned early on that i'd have to go uphill you know to um identify the stigmas and then to articulate what we need to do instead of living in them and um really just pushed forward with that and it was hard it was you know it's hard i'm so proud and glad and um thankful that my parents supported me you know with that journey um but it's it wasn't the last time i was gonna face it you know um so many toxic workplaces that reinforce the same so many other patients that i've seen that have experienced the same for cultural reasons and not just because they're from you know my marginalized or minority cultures any just the family culture you know it doesn't matter the ethnicity or the background it's really just what you're establishing in that nucleus so um so i saw stigma time and time again i experienced it time and time again and i just naturally became part of my lexicon and my mo for for saying nope we're going to talk about it you know it's going to be difficult but we're going to talk about it and we need to talk about it um to be able to make any type of progress so yeah it was hard and it still is there are moments where it's hard and because also from a professional standpoint you know being a provider one of the things that providers have been taught um is you keep it all you know compartmentalized you don't share you know i was brought up in an era where sharing experiences um was not part of what we did from a therapeutic standpoint and that was reinforced in my programming and then it started to change where nope sharing can be helpful you know so that started to evolve which was so great and i'm so glad that that realization occurred but it wasn't until recently that even from a professional standpoint i felt like i could safely say here's my story this is what it looks like um and just be completely blunt about it all yeah i
Speaker 1from from my standpoint i can't tell you how much it's helped me that i've had both i've had as a patient i've had therapists that share very openly about their experience their lived experience whether it be with addiction mostly with addiction or any trauma but mostly with addiction and then i've had the like stone-cold psychology experience where i've had the same thing where i've had the psychologist where it's like i'm talking to like ai almost that's trying to like figure me out and fix me and i can't tell you how much it's helped me to have that that shared lived experience because i just feel more comfortable sharing about my my stuff right and so yeah that's what i was i was gonna ask you that too is like the importance of of lived experience and i'm really happy that that shift happened what do you think caused that shift from you know you don't say anything to now
Speaker 2we can we can share openly with patients i mean like you said you experienced both right you know so it's still with us and you know one school of thought is that the shift happened because there was evidence showing that sharing made healing more accessible right that's what i've experienced time and time again you know we're not providers are not gods yeah like we're human beings right we're human beings where you know like there is and the other factor here that i think just really sums it up beautifully is that there is healing to be had in connection and how you're building that connection and that rapport is going to make a difference now i will say this i went into marriage and family psychology that was my master's degree um and then my psychology degree my doctorate was in psych and clinical psych and educational psych and um when i did my master's at the time going into the profession i wasn't married and i wasn't engaged then i ended up in my relationship and that's where i was you know the intimate partner violence was happening it was an engagement blah blah blah but in sessions you know a lot of times especially during that time it would be like well you're not married how do you know and even when you know so one of my other specialties is military psychology working with the military well you haven't been on the field how do you know right you're right i don't know teach me tell me tell me what your experiences are so i believe that lived experience is definitely helpful but it's not mandatory to be able to help someone on their journey yeah yeah i
Speaker 1love that there's lots of you know techniques and and ways that you can you know assist in talk therapy right so you know you don't have to be exactly lived the same experiences it's a good point yeah what in your experience what what what makes some addicts or uh alcoholics what's the kind of like corroding thread that keeps people gets people sober and keeps them sober so what's the corroding thread yeah maybe i said that wrong the what's what's kind of the congruency like what's the what works for people that stay successful in recovery yeah um in my experience
Speaker 2and what i've seen it's consistency it's knowing that they have a really good therapeutic and non-therapeutic support system um and it's being able to be outside of the therapeutic system and having elements of healing that are still therapeutic but they're not considered necessarily therapy you know um so that kind of like enhances the quality of life anything that hands enhances quality of life so what i've seen is consistency in making sure that you have your therapeutic you know alliances with people your providers your groups um whether that's a treatment center that you even graduated from and you keep up with their alumni that kind of a thing um or even if you decide not to do treatment center and you're with just your providers you know your pcp your specialists um you know physicians your mental health providers whoever um peer support specialists are amazing as well and help on the recovery journey too you have to have a system that works for you you have to identify that system and when people find it and they get into that groove and then they create that sense of kind of structure and discipline for themselves that's what i've seen be most successful yeah this idea
Speaker 1of of connection right outside community connection yeah i've seen that for me too every time i've relapsed i can say that i was i was isolated before the incident right i was keeping things to myself i had these great ideas about how i was going to fix my insides and i wasn't really bouncing them off mentors off people in recovery off family members you know i i kind of i got this right this kind of ego in inflation was happening yeah can you talk a little bit about like types of treatment centers and you know what what kind of types of treatment centers there are sure so there's so many um and
Speaker 2i'm gonna this is where i'm gonna plug in like recovery.com this is a tool that i wish i had when i first started in being a provider you know and oh my goodness so anyway let me summarize this recovery.com is basically a you know a beautiful place where you can find treatment any type of treatment that you need you can filter to your insurance you can filter to your locations that you're preferring to be in you know as part of your journey and then start your search from there there are lots of different types of treatment centers and some are traditional 12-step focused while others take more of a hybridized approach and we'll say yeah you have 12-step as an option but there are other approaches that we can take and we can customize the programming for you there are also of course treatment centers are going to offer things like inpatient services outpatient services residential programs detoxing programs and even sober living to help with transitioning so there's a lot of different options out there but what connects all of them is again kind of like that option to either engage in the non-12-step or 12-step approaches and you know the other element is what's used for therapeutic options so you know evidence-based behavioral therapies are definitely what most centers are going to utilize there will usually be some type of a holistic or integrative approach to alternative therapies as well like yoga acupuncture massage mindfulness-based relapse prevention and so on and so forth art and adventure therapy music therapy are also extremely helpful and many places will also offer that and then there's smart recovery and smart recovery is self-management and recovery training so it's a kind of secular cognitive behavioral approach that focuses on empowerment and self-reliance and integrates in like practical tools that you can apply to your life and a lot of outpatient and hybridized programs will offer smart recovery as an option as well so yeah there's a lot out there
Speaker 1yeah the point is you know you got to find what works for you and what gets you you connected and outside of yourself, right? Because this addiction thing, it's a very selfish, in my experience, it's a very selfish disease that, you know, I'm always looking for ways to kind of pleasure me. And what's the connection between like pleasure seeking, dopamine, serotonin,
Speaker 2oxytocin, and addiction? Yeah. I mean, I actually don't always think about it that way. I think the reason why we're dopamine seeking or pleasure seeking in that sense is because we're trying to band-aid or get through what we're really hurting about. So the heart of addiction, any kind, is some kind of pain that you're trying to figure out, mask, band-aid, you know, and eventually, hopefully, work through, you know? So it, you know, you mentioned right now, like it's selfish, it's pleasure seeking. Well, because you're trying to heal, you know? And I would actually encourage, don't be so hard on yourself, you know? Like this is really about figuring out what's going on,
Speaker 1what's hurting you, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I want to clarify too that, you know, the trauma experienced is, it doesn't have to be, I've learned this. It doesn't have to be this big thing. You know, my childhood was this, or I, my parents treated me poorly or they never showed, like I had an amazing childhood, right? And nobody in my family that I know of had or suffered with any addiction or alcoholism issues. But to your point, yeah, I was, I was trying to escape pain and mask the way I, you know, sort of felt about myself, right? Yeah. Do you have any, I love data. I love science. I love statistics. And we were talking a bit about this offline and, you know, I love learning about new things and there's always stuff going on, right? So do you have anything that you can share around this topic? Absolutely.
Speaker 2So we're doing a lot of new research at recovery.com. And one thing that we do have is so many people are visiting our site and they reach out with questions and have inquiries about different things. And one of the things that we've seen for sure is that there is a big, big need for treatment in substance use and for mental health conditions. And that really it, everything is running together, you know? So remember that when you're looking for treatment for substance use, it doesn't just have to address the substance in question. And that use or that cycle that you're in, that there are those underlying concerns and issues that you need to address. And our data is showing us that. So people who are coming to our site, you know, we've had over 25% looking for specifically substance use treatment. And over 15% of our visitors are looking for both, but I account that number, the over 15% to be focusing on one or the other and not realizing that it runs parallel to one another. So, very interesting information there. Out of all of that, one of the things that we've seen is trauma is really a big pull and a driving factor for mental health conditions, leading people to seek help. And then followed by depression, anxiety, and suicidality, as well as the want to be able to help partners is really big. So, so we've got some pretty interesting trends, in this past year, this is data from this past year, 2024 May to current, that are showing us
Speaker 1these trends right now. Interesting. The partner thing is interesting to me because, so I spend a lot of time on like forums online, you know, Reddit, one of them, there's an addiction Reddit that I like to read and kind of comment on when people have questions and about experience. And I'm not a doctor or scientist, I don't try to be. I did when I was in my addiction. I tried to be a doctor by managing my chemicals and ADHD, but I noticed I can't play that role anymore. It doesn't work for me and I'm not a doctor. So, but the, I, what I see a lot from people I find interesting is there's a, there's a common theme around like, what is my partner on? Yeah. Right. He's, he's exhibiting, she's exhibiting this, this, and this I'm like, I'm scared. What what's involved here. Are we dealing with fentanyl? Are we dealing with meth? He's doing this, this, and that she's doing. This, this, and that. So I find that that's interesting and, and family, it plays such a huge role in this, in this process. What, what do you think about family and support systems and, and how essential they are to, to someone's recovery?
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, it's going to vary from person to person, but when possible and if, you know, in a good place, I would say is that there's two ways of looking at it. One, if there's healing that is needed to happen and resolution that needed is needed to have, has been as, you know, part of the family unit, then I highly recommend that because that's part of addressing those underlying issues may be a concern, but that's going to be at your pace, you know, and with the guidance of your therapist, when you're ready to do that. But if you feel good with your family unit, like you mentioned yourself, like no issues with family, you love them, great childhood, et cetera, then having them as part of your support system right off the bat and integrating them into psychoeducation is essential. And it's really, really good. Psychoeducation in general is really a good idea for anybody that you consider your family, whether that's the family you were born into or the family that you choose and creating, you know, a system that, you know, is going to support you and be like, okay, here's all the education. This is what I'm going through. This is what I need. Weaving them into your sessions as a, you know, with family sessions, group sessions, whatever. There are also separate groups that family members can attend as part of treatment programs that are really good and very helpful that I highly recommend too, because, you know, as the support system, or as the person outside of the person who's recovering, you're also going to be going through a whole bunch of emotions and it's important to process those. So I can't recommend, you know, getting your own support as well enough.
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Speaker 1Yeah, a common thing I hear and I experience this too is I go to rehab, I heal, or I do a large part of my healing journey. I come home and I'm like ready to go. I'm fixed. Let's go everybody. I'm sorry for doing everything, but I'm back. And you come home and it's like you left a tornado in the house, right? And then you come home and it's like you left a tornado in the house, right? And everyone's kind of cleaning up the pieces and they haven't really done the healing yet, you know? So my treatment center offered a family program and now my mom is a proud like head of the aftercare for the family. Yeah, she loves it. She loves it.
Speaker 5Wow, how wonderful. That's so great.
Speaker 1And I think she's come to a point now where she's realized, much like myself, that a lot of this healing journey is in helping other people. You've realized that too. It's kind of like being a teacher and you learn the content better, faster. You learn more about the content by teaching others. I've come to the realization that I need to help other people to get outside of myself. And I think my mom has too. She helps a lot of people, a lot of family members.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so great. Yeah. I know there's definitely healing to be had when you're ready in being able to be of service to others. And it definitely was part of my own journey from the beginning. So I can relate to that as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. You talk a lot about recovery literacy.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Do you want to describe what that is and why it's important?
Speaker 2Yeah. So recovery literacy, I mean, this is about educating as many people as we possibly can to help them along their journey, no matter what that journey is and where they're at on that journey or what role they're playing on the journey, right? So whether that's parents coming with questions about their loved ones, their children, their spouse, family, marriages, and relationships coming to ask about their spouses, whether that's instructors, teachers coming and saying, "How do I educate my students about this?" Whether that's you on the journey going, "I don't even know where to begin. How do I get from maybe thinking that I don't need treatment to answering questions that I have about the concerns that I have and figuring out that I do need to get treatment?" Yeah. So recovery literacy is about really providing education across all walks for all people, no matter where they're at, so that we can move from contemplation to action I love that that's amazing so you've you mentioned you've done a lot
Speaker 1of work with military and I presume like PTSD what and indigenous communities as well LGBTQ plus populations what what what why don't you tell us what is PTSD first of all and then like how does
Speaker 2somebody heal from that or begin to heal from that yeah I mean most simply put post-traumatic stress disorder can be experienced you don't have to be in the military to experience it yeah trauma you know anything that um has affected you negatively that has basically long-lasting um repercussions that make it difficult for you to go through your day-to-day um would constitute a potential diagnosis of the PTSD um I had to go through and I still go through my own um you know this part of my current recovery Journey is navigating some of those symptoms that come back from my PTSD related to the traumas that I have encountered and they will get there are triggers that are involved with them that you have to navigate as well and and you know try to learn about and figure out and then have a good toolbox ready to go to be able to you know apply and get through whatever it is that you're feeling so anybody can experience PTSD um and how it progresses is also unique to each person um is it something that you necessarily heal from I always say healing is consistent it's a very it's not a linear Journey recovery is not a linear Journey it is lifelong you know um even with something like grief right which can also be a component of PTSD um um you know you one day it'll be like I feel great this is good and then tomorrow it'll be like you feel like you're back at day one you know because of whatever triggers might have occurred so to be able to understand that your recovery Journey is going to be unique to you is essential and because it's unique to you to have your own unique tools um and you know whether that's again a compilation of providers your own practices um you know your support system your sense of connection is going to make a difference
Speaker 1yeah yeah the the most important step is you know reaching out right nobody nobody can read my mind I have to ask for help yeah and that was the hardest part for sure yeah where do you see mental health advocacy and and the future of mental health maybe the stigma I I you know I used to think that the stigma around addiction and and mental health would one day there was a possibility that it gets kind of demolished I don't think that that's true anymore I think it's it's lessening and it's getting better as time goes on but where do you see the future of
Speaker 2all this you know that's such a great question um I like I said to you I think you know like when I first started in this field we you know psychology and psychologists were stigmatized it was actually I'm also a professor um and one of the things that would actually show up in our textbooks for undergrad um and that psych 101 class was the journey the historical journey of um you know what psychology was where it started so I can literally pinpoint in media where it started to shift okay you can see it in movies so we had Frasier come out in the 2000s or you know early 1990s somewhere and that's when the concept of being a shrink started to turn over to psychologists and that being revered um so I'm actually really thankful for that show because really in you know in the timeline of of psychology that is what helped with the the initial destigmatization of psychologists and psychology as a profession um and what I love about psychology is that it's it's it's it's it's it's um and what I loved also about that show is that he was what he was a radio talk show host so he was putting it out there to the masses and talking about what we were experiencing psychology which truly is a subject that you know is in our day-to-day life um and how we function and how we behave and how we react to things and he was putting it out there to the masses and that also helped with destigmatizing um the profession so we started to go you know from that movement into still having to navigate silence and stoicism as I mentioned and I feel that in the past you know decade or so we have made huge strides to being able to talk about things that we haven't been able to talk about before and embrace mental health and healing and recovery in huge force and I'm so thankful for that unfortunately though with a lot of what's going on in the world I'm seeing a regression there is an increase in fear there's you know the fear of again even saying that you need help the fear of being able to identify in certain ways whether that's for your race ethnicity gender Etc it's starting to come back again and I'm seeing a resurgence of silence as a result and that concerns me um although I will say while that is happening because we kind of had this push of being able to you know break the silence there are so many more people who are true advocates and we're seeing so much more movement and energy in being able to have recovery-based services um that I remain very hopeful so I mean the future of mental health from my view it's not just clinical it's collective and it needs to be deeply integrative um and I think we can move forward towards a model and a system and a collective way of thinking where we're not just treating symptoms but we're looking at transformation of our systems the system that is most immediately in front of us within our family all the way to our community all the way to our nation all the way to our world. Right so um you know my hope is that we can continue to push forward yeah yeah it's true I
Speaker 1would say too like with with social media you're seeing a lot more you know these these influencers that are in sobriety and they're kind of making it look cool right and I think that that's important you know say what you want about social media there's a lot of pros and cons to it but I think the idea of I don't know a 20 something or you know 18 year old that's struggling and doesn't know what to do seeing this kind of you know person that's looks like they're having fun in recovery and looks like making it kind of cool if you will I think that that's very important you know and I know a few here in Toronto that I've met just in my time of doing this this podcast
Speaker 2and I think that that's important yeah it's very important and I think it's important to identify also kind of like the two sides to it I've actually worked with a lot of athletes and musicians and political figures as well and one of the things that is a common theme unfortunately is that it's almost a prerequisite for you to have an issue and then be in recovery you know and that that can then gets classified as you being in the in group or now you you are truly one of us you know like so almost a prerequisite to be a musician or to be a political figure an athlete and I want to caution everyone to that you know I'm very thankful to social media and influencers for being able to share their story and destigmatize for sure um I don't want people to think that this is a cool thing to do and a prerequisite in order for me to be part of any type of you know classification of group you know whether it's a profession or otherwise yeah yeah and I definitely don't recommend
Speaker 1I I'll tell you right now you know it's a progressive disease and I I'm a you know I'm a an advocate of of that it does get worse you know when you go back out you pick up where you left off and it does get worse so I don't recommend that to anybody yeah yeah um what are some tools and insights that somebody can walk away with you know they don't know what to do they're struggling they're feeling alone you know nobody gets them what's something they can do
Speaker 2right now oh uh go get help um and if you need something that's you know private you know that needs to be quiet for you to figure things out again you know starting at a place like recovery .com is not a bad place to start because it's going to give you all the education that you need and hopefully answer a lot of questions that you might have but more than that also like do the search you know find the support system that's the most important thing that's the most important thing the most important part is like find the support system that works for you your friends your family saying this is what I need to do I need help getting there um reaching out to provider, whether it's your PCP, because you've got one, you know, and saying, I don't know where to begin, please help, you know, like, that just saying that first line is so important. And so crucial. I can't recommend that enough. And it will, it will be challenging, but it will have major rewards in the long run. So get the help. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, I want to get some
Speaker 1lightning round questions from you. Sure. You know, say the first thing that comes to mind, or maybe, yeah, let's do that. Yeah, sure. Right. What's one word that defines recovery?
Speaker 2Oh, one word that defines recovery. That's a hard one. Yeah, you got me right at the beginning. I mean, so many come to my mind. That's why I was like, ah, feeling, connection.
Speaker 1Yeah. You know, yeah. What's, you know, a favorite book or resource for trauma education?
Speaker 2Oh, Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps Score. Yeah. Oh, I've heard that. I've heard that's good.
Speaker 1Yeah. The Body Keeps Score. I got to read that. Yeah. My therapist recommended it to me. Maybe
Speaker 2I should read it. Yeah. You can do it on Audible too. So if you need to listen to it, it's really
Speaker 1good. Yeah. What's a healing tool that you swear by? Oh, meditation for me is my non-negotiable. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. And then finally, what is the most misunderstood, misunderstood thing about brain health?
Speaker 2Well, I mean, we hear it in the language. You're so crazy, right? And that's part of the stigma that I feel we've, you know, had to overcome in that timeline of, you know, psychology as a profession and as a field. People have equated brain health to something separate, but it's no different than going to the cardiologist and getting... Treatment for your heart issues. Your brain is an organ in your body. So, you know, when we're talking about brain health and we're talking about mental health, it really needs to be no different in our minds as going to the PCP or going to the specialist for an ear, nose, throat problem or a heart problem or a gut problem, because the brain is literally what's keeping you alive. So brain health is vital and, you know, it needs to be considered as, you know, part of the human body treatment. So mental health and wellness is part of that.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. And, and this, you know, this idea of rub some dirt on it or, you know, don't show emotion. I think, you know, as men, particularly in my experience, that's been kind of the way we were brought up is, you know, you just kind of rub some dirt on it and move on, right? You don't talk about it. Like you said, and then there's this family dynamic too. I like that you said that at the beginning too. I wanted to comment on that. You know, no, we don't talk about the family to, to people outside the family. Yeah. Right. And it's, it's not culture specific. It's not, it's family specific to your point. Right. So, yeah, you know, the help is out there if you're willing and all it, all it takes is that
Speaker 2one first step. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time
Speaker 1today, doctor. I appreciate it. I learned a lot. There's a lot of good information in there and where can we find you at or where can we find I mean, recovery.com is pretty easy and straightforward to be two seconds. Absolutely.
Speaker 2Yeah. Recovery.com beautiful resource for me personally. My social handle is at the official Dr. Mala. My personal website is drmala.net. Yeah. Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, Anthony. It was a pleasure.
Speaker 6Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment or therapy. If you are someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
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