112. Brian MacCarthy, Managing Partner at Booz Allen Ventures

(upbeat music) We looked like polar opposites, basiccy and dizz Allen, and we just hit it off. Like we just hit it off incredibly on vision for what American superiority needs to look like. And not just on the, you know, deterrence or national security side, but there are a lot of civil missions that desperately need commercial tech for the only named anchor partner into their growth fund for $400 million into a six and a half billion dollar growth fund. This is all quiet on the second front. Podcasts where boring conversations around defense tech and national security come to die. Join me, Tyler Sweat, and my second front homies, as we dismantle the mundane and cut through the bureaucratic bullshit to demystify the world of defense tech. But be warned, this is not a typical government podcast. We ready to get weird. What's up everybody? I'm your host Tyler Sweat. Welcome to another episode of All Quiet on the Second Front. The podcast where boring defense talk goes to die. Pretty excited to have a, you know, long time listener, first time caller, whatever the podcast of Cool One is. A man who probably needs no introduction, be Mac to come over from who's on ventures. So thanks for spending some time with us today, brother. - Thanks, man. I've been a long fan of not only you, but this podcast and though it's my main medium, I recognize that a lot of the ones out there are, you know, talking points only. And so I hope we get into it today. - No, we're gonna get weird with it. (laughing) So we'll get to, I think everyone's always, you know, we'll do what I want to hear about the fond and the news and all that. But before we get that, like, a little bit about you. I've had the pleasure of, we've known each other as long as I can remember. But for folks who maybe just know you now for some of the contemporary, like, what's your story kind of take me through, how'd you get made, what are you doing now? - Yeah. Short version is group and McLean Virginia went to JMU. And then I weirdly went up to New York and started studying women's fashion. My father was Navy. My grandfather was CIA. My mom was arrested many times for actually protesting. So she was kind of far left. My dad was far right. That was our dinner table every night, but we had civil discussions. And so I kind of had that worldview, right? But, yeah, my father got sick. That was kind of the first life drop on me, which was pretty tough. I was 28, 29. Had the same thing that Ted Kennedy and others had, Braintoom were was done like that. Realized I had to come back from New York and be with family. And I realized that I was kind of just fucking around in New York and like a lot of people do in their 20s. I moved there a week after 9/11. So in the back of my mind, I was like, I need to think about like what I want to do that's bigger than me. And I met these two people through kind of the defense IT world Susan Penfield and Young Bang, who a lot of people know. And they brought me into Booz Allen and kind of the rest of history. - Yeah, fighting the urge, but I'm going to have to do it. Hey, you talk about both sides of the table, the far left, the far right. You go to New York right after 9/11 making women's clothes. So you can dress the Afghan women when we inevitably free them. And in the short term, you can dress the protesters. - Yes, it's optimized. - Yeah, it's optimized brother. - Listen, here's what New York taught me that I still use today in general. And like you're thrown into the lion's den, you have no money, you're going out all the time. I think I realized like, wow, I need a little bit more purpose. And I grew up in this house where I idolized both parents, but for either sides. And it wasn't until COVID that a bunch of us found out that my grandfather worked for the CIA. So he was part of the Eisenhower and Nixon, CIA, and then he was actually fired by John F. Kennedy. And he's who I get my EU citizenship from through Ireland. So it's really interesting to see that another Irish guy, another Irish Protestant Catholic fired this guy from court county Ireland because he was more on the right. But basically, you and I have talked about this, like probably over the first dinner in San Francisco at that like weird Asian joint that you were like, this is the best place ever. Yes, it is the best place ever. And many people now that know me in this industry know that like my biggest life regret is having never served. Now the background of all that was, you know, I grew up with something called cystic fibrosis. I should have been dead 10 times over. Nobody with CF makes it into their 40s, much less their 30s. And so for some obvious reasons, I could never join the military because of a life threatening disease. And so I think part of my just modus operandi is like I love playing devil's advocate and I love beating the odds. But to this day, you know, I idolize people who have served, including yourself and others. Because in this industry, right? Like it's not just about like the hoopla ventures and defense tech, you know, and people generally tend to wrap themselves around the American flag and say mission, mission, mission. But yeah, that's one of my biggest life regrets. And I feel like, you know, in some small way, I can conserve the community now. And also like they're all of our friends. Like yes, there are clients and customers and the mission operators. But like we also spend so much time with them outside the four walls of the Pentagon that like, you know, if I needed something and I was in a jam and I don't know if we're going to have time to get into the heart thing for folks at home, you know, I've had three big events, heart events in the last year and a half. One was in the Pentagon. One was at a booze office. And one was after a board meeting at second front where I just collapsed and I've got a, yeah, exactly at a gun range. And I have about 27 staples up my stomach to prove how committed I am to second-friar. Yeah, so anyhow, it's, I've had a lot of, I've just had a lot of life obstacles and I generally try to remain very positive and also know that like there are people who very carry, very much care about the industry and the operators and that's what I want to do. Yeah, no, I mean, it is a big community and I do, anything I set up a bunch to people, right? Like I have the ability to have so much more impact now on the outside, like it did a bunch of cool stuff for a got to T-shirt, like shocker, dint wind. But with got this ability to do like real, like market leading to provide capability levers, which is worth unfalable 20 years ago. Yeah, and like I can say, hey, I'm doing the most impactful thing I've ever done on my career because of you, because of folks like you. So like heard on the servant, but like, I don't know, brother, there's a relative scale there. I think you're doing pretty fucking all right. Yeah, yeah, appreciate it. Yeah. So let's just dive right in a little bit, right? Like, everybody knows Booz Allen, right? Booz Allen, big, been around for a long time, does a bunch of stuff kind of everywhere. Booz Allen ventures, I think people sort of know and they're like, yeah, that's like Booz Allen's ventures thing. And then you see Booz Allen ventures and treason horror wits, huge thing. And you're like, hey, wait, what the fuck? And I think that turned a lot of people away. Smoke grenade. Yeah, like, hey, wait a second. I wasn't thinking about this right. Like, did this was just like, you know, be back in like, Mark were like in the elevator and we're like, I should've been Moe 300 or something. Like a four. How does something like this even happen? Yeah. Let me take you back to real quickly. So, you know, I was out in California in San Francisco from 2015 to 2020. And me and two of your friends helped me write the original Ventures thesis. Travis Bales, who's really the key to Booz Allen ventures. He runs a day today. He's one of the best humans in the world. So he's, he's my go to guy and then, but we also wrote the thesis with a guy named Adam Porter Price who now runs all of M&A at Anderl. And he's all right. Yeah, he's all right. He gave APP too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I can't believe I just called him out of Porter Price. And we wrote the thesis for one clear reason. We knew we needed access to W's tech. But we also, you know, Steve Vescaravage, who really-- kind of pushed us to say when all of the, you know, when all the maven stuff was going on, you know, what a lot of clients are asked us to do was like, "Why won't you put your money where your mouth is?" Like, if you believe this tech is the best, why aren't we seeing you invest in this? And we had, I had started a text scouting division predominantly for the army out there, and then it rolled into several other clients, and I was like, "Well, we've got the access, we're now kind of well known on the West Coast," which by the way, the first time I was out in San Francisco, people were like, "Bez Allen Hamilton, so like, what kind of law do you guys practice?" And that was just like a bit, this was 2015, I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have to like, brute force like get people to understand what we do." It was like the beltway and Silicon Valley at that time couldn't have been more polar opposites. Obviously, there were some people working in the hardcore back corners of this, whether it be Treyet, Founders Fun and some others, Paul Kwan, General Catalyst, whatever it be. But we started this thesis, started with 100 million, started making investments, and we said, "Listen, we know what we do well, and we know what you do well, and how can we bring those forces together to make some impact on some major clients?" And we started the thesis with focusing on warfighter tech, anything in the kill chain, cyber, anything AI, and then some quantum in space. All credits to Travis and the team, I just provided General Oversight. We turned it into a top-design fund, got the $200 million ramp up. That was in June of this year to $300 million. So that is running in all its own, and we're gonna have a bunch of new announcements coming out in the next quarter or two on deals, one of which is our first UK deal. And that's going well. But I am, if anybody who knows me well, knows that I like chasing the big ticket items. I probably have undiagnosed ADHD, and I have trouble sitting down for too long without thinking about the next big thing. -Nicked by the TISM. -Yeah, nicked by the TISM. And I was like, listen. -Coms like that one. -Yeah, yeah, yeah, it comes. I'm trying not to think. -Singulous one, I did, I did, I did, I did. -Slide for that. -One of the things that I was thinking about was we could go much bigger. -Yeah. -We have this incredible balance sheet. This was a year before Trump sent out the thing on True Social about like, all right, what are the primes doing to invest in our RTT and the critical tech areas and not just returning to the investment community, obviously, which is still important as a publicly traded company, stock buybacks, dividends, etc. But the general idea was, and I wrote this thesis. I probably can't call her out, but she was one of my favorite interns who worked for me for a while and then went to Stanford and then I ran it by Travis. And so we have this big idea for a much larger fund. But being a publicly traded company and having all the rules around, you know, being a prime contractor in the United States, like all of the checklists we would have had to have gone through to take on LPs and the fit and the fact that like, once you become a registered investment advisor, like you got to go and get all your, you know, tickets on that side. I particularly was never a good test taker. I'm more of a creative guy, so I don't, I didn't really want to go and get my Series 7. That would have been a debacle. So we wrote this thesis and we said, listen, we've got to go much, much bigger. And we had a few portfolio companies who had clearly, you know, carved a path to success. I think yours being the pre-optimate one and I'm not just kissing your ass, but like between second front, hit and level and a few others. We knew that we could make early bets into incredible founders and see them grow from A to B, B to C, C to D. And the reality is that a lot of our early stage investments, you know, they don't understand the ATO certification process. They don't even have a Fed team. If you talk to them about how appropriations work, they're like, what? And so we needed access to the best tak. And so I wrote down a list of 10 investment funds that I think we should go talk to and then myself, Steve Scarevage, are then CFO, Matt Calderone, and Horacio RCEO took West Coast Trip, had several conversations with some of the top tier funds, one of which I probably can't talk about on this call because it was the most hilarious story ever, but I don't want to call anybody out. Do an after hours recording here. Well, they're in after hours. I'll tell you when the mic stops. But the thing we kept coming back to was even though on paper and potentially marketing and advertising, we looked like polar opposites, A16 and BZL. And they, you know, inarguably are one of the most trusted and best funds in the world, not only from a fundraising standpoint, but from a return standpoint. And it started with an email to Catherine Boyle who introduced me to Jen Ka in Jen Ka's ahead of investor relations. And then a series of dinner and events with Mark and Ben. And we just hit it off. Like we just hit it off incredibly on the vision for what American superiority needs to look like. And not just on the, you know, deterrence or national security side, but there are a lot of civil missions that desperately need commercial tech. And they saw the value in us and our leaders just headed off incredibly well. And of the course of basically 14 months, we carved out this deal. And the headlines went public two Fridays ago. And it's where the only named anchor partner into their growth fund for $400 million into a six and a half billion dollar growth fund. Yeah, I mean, that's one congrats. I mean, that's to many that's a sycophia in task, right? Like go from concept to implementation, have it land the right way with the right partner. You know, as you think about go forward, right? And you've got this amazing sort of, you know, the Booz Allen call it like the expertise, the insight, the access, and then you've got, you know, injuries and orits with your point, right? This like, generational sort of well-earned position is like a preeminent sort of investor. That's an interesting intersection. Right? So how do, how do folks think about what does that mean? Right? Does that mean that folks that maybe don't understand government now can look at injuries and not just sort of on the earlier stage. So I can think about them as like a growth partner in public or do you think about it more as like a hey folks are helping to diversify kind of like down and into like civil mission. You know, do you go on? I'm saying yeah. Yeah. I think first and foremost, right? Like it was interesting to see how our analysts and investors reacted because we obviously had earnings call the same day we announced the the the check size. And I think people generally were like shocked by the announcement. And then I got 40 to 100, you know, text messages and LinkedIn outfights being like, is this what you've been working on or the last year? And of course, anytime you do something this big, it involves a massive team to like so shout out to like, you know, our corporate development team, you know, my boss, Bryce, Bryce Pipper, Matt Caldoron was, you know, instrumental was our champion inside of the leadership team. And then of course, this is all Rossia's baby, right? Like so. But here's what I'll say is like, and I think I can say this honestly because you and I have been in the trenches on what works and what doesn't. And we are, and I will say this on a podcast like we are still trying to get, you know, the several layers down past the, you know, executive teams at Booz Allen who know this is the right move, but driven through the project teams who own the KPIs, who own the contracts, who own the client relationships to say, guys, this is a this is a tidal wave coming. And you need to think about not built here and how do we drive commercial first. And that is what I've learned the hard way, having done the ventures unit, this is not these massive strategic agreements. This is freaking brick by brick deal by deal. Absolutely. All the white might is generally-- Or does this change as the hardest part? It is-- But most integrations fail to like a creep the value they're supposed to. It is mind-numbing. Of course, tap. Yeah. It doesn't mean the people are nefarious in any way. It just means it is an institutional culture change that we have to go grassroots with. And now that we have the leadership team enforcing it, top down all the way to kind of like how we're going to get a programs of record, I think we'll see some significant change. But the end reason thing was very systematically architected because I wrote down the 10 favorite investors that I like doing deals with, who I thought would be complimentary. And I have massive respect for the nine that we didn't choose. But I think they took the same worldview as us, as to where the government can be much more aggressive at adopting commercial tech. And then the other things that I've heard since we announced the deal was two things. You spend a lot of the time in the Department of War and Langley and other areas, so do I. And I think what resonated with them the most was not the portfolio companies that Andrew Eisenhower has. I mean, in general, they're the best of the best. And not necessarily Booz Allen in the 111 years of experience we have. But as you've seen this administration push for commercial adoption into these major programs, the thing that they've also said is like, what are we? $38.5 trillion in debt right now? Probably ticks up higher every second we talk on this podcast. The issue is we cannot rely on a $1.5 trillion RDT and E budget or larger Department of War budget and pretend that we can fix all the problems. We desperately need outside capital, VCE, debt, hedge funds, et cetera, to actually care about this space. And that's what's new, right? And so I think if I were to shout from any podium, I would say, that's what this deal is. It's not our dollars that are necessarily important, though there are a lot. We're putting $6.5 billion fund. So every dollar has maximum potential to change the game for the next generation of the 15, 20 Neoprimes. Now listen, we have a lot of friends at Andrew. Andrew doesn't particularly need the help, though. You know, I talk with APP, I talk with Stack in the teams. Often we are already working together. We have worked together in the past. We work with Databricks. We are structuring something with OpenAI. There are incredibly well-sophisticated Neoprimes that have a go-to-market. And in some cases can use our help, but generally have an infrastructure set up to go to market. There are a lot of, you know, decaquans in their portfolio who they're like, oh, is, is replant. Like, is a vibe-coding company or cursor or whiz? Like, are there use cases in government? And the answer that I always say is, every single use case you can think of outside of ad optimization, there is 100% of use case in the federal government. I mean, ad tech translates like one-to-one to targeting. Right. That's fair. Yeah. We used to use Twitter a long time ago. Good point. Well, that's definitely your background. Yeah, so you would know that more than me. I love ad tech. Send me all your ad tech. No, I think, too, to your point, right? You've got the one plus one equals three, but I also think, and you've got added a little bit with like Steven, the team in Horacio and sort of changing the culture is, you bring this like awesome capital lever. I think you've got, you know, with Deputy Feinberg and the team that you've gotten, you know, Ryan Linder over to OSC and that you've got folks who are like, hey, we want to help take that. And help, you know, turn your 400 into a billion and blah, blah, blah, blah, all the way through. What you've also got is a condition being set for not just neo-aprice, but for the existing primers to sort of rewrite the book on how. 'Cause like, what got us here won't get us there. And I think we all see that. And I think it's a cool spot to see you guys taking steps to change sort of how you think about success and value and mission and optimization and sort of all of that. And you've got to venture portfolio, you've got your partners and you've got how you are helping shape the way the government thinks about what should a program look like in the future. But should it be a million humans tick tick ticking or like should it be a computer? Yeah, that's an interesting inflection 'cause I don't know if we've had like an administration. I mean, it's like, politically, but like, I think we've had an administration that was like, yeah, hey, I want some tech. They can historically like, you've said things and you haven't really seen it move. And so, I'm excited about like, what does the next two years look like? Yeah, and like, you and I, particularly through some of our work with SVDG, not necessarily to give them a shout out, but incredible organization, we know the numbers. And so a lot of people concentrate on the numbers, which is like, what is it? If you take out SpaceX, less than-- It's like less than two percent. Maybe less than one percent. It's less than one, but I don't want to get-- Of math check by like, jobs are my feeding your mind. Now, I recently read this 'cause I was on a panel at Georgetown, so I think I got the numbers right. If you take out SpaceX, it's less than one percent of the total RDT and E spend went to the top 100 Neoprons. Less than one percent. So we know that's a problem, but that problem is a problem for investors and acquisition officers to figure out. The second problem is, and this is where you and I have lots of friends, companies who are super aspirational are getting a shit ton of funding, but many of them can't get past L-Rip, low rate initial production for anybody who cares. And into like, actual growth volume into scaled production. And at the end of the day, you know, when an Admiral O'Connor or, you know, Paparo or, you know, pick your favorite flag officer, calls and says, you know, and you served on these teams, right? I need something that works and I need it now and I cannot have it break. You don't get the luxury to like wait 12 to 18 months and those people certainly don't care about the ones and zeros, like, hey, venture investment firm X made, you know, ADX on this, you know, IPL, like that's just like, so there's two sides of the equation that you have to be super aware of and then like, bring it back all the way around to the deal. They're the best investors in the world. They know how to raise capital and they know how to deploy it. What I would say were the best in the world at, you know, 33,000 people, 23,000 engineers, largest, so many people. Largest cyber, you know, defense workforce, largest AI workforce, but the thing that we tend to focus on is, you know, every single one of these missions has right, wrong, or indifferent, you know, kind of specialized last mile requirement. Oh yeah. And the venture community doesn't have to want to, the venture community, nor the companies want to have to rewrite their entire software, our contact, software architecture for JSOC or SoCom and one different for Langley and one different for FBI. And so I think there's this larger marketing, you know, Prime versus Neoprime, Primes are bad, Neoprimes are awesome. You know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the reality is, you know, the PRC, China, Iran, Russia, they don't give a shit about any of these problems. Yeah, because they're going to deploy all their capital into their best companies and then use it for the PLA and laugh all the way to the bank as we argue with each other. And so there's got to be an ecosystem in which we can all find a way to win without pointing fingers. Agreed. We have to. Yeah. Yeah. And that time is like-- Oh, yesterday. Have you-- Yeah, clock sticking. Yeah, clock sticking to 20/27. Real fast. What are they saying in the draft? Like, you're on the clock? Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Two questions is a sort of turn the corner here, 'cause if I don't frame this, I think me and you could do this for like 10 hours. Yeah. (laughing) We've rolled out like a bottle of whiskey yourself that it started getting after it. All right, two questions. One, looking back on sort of the, you know, the 12 months before the launch, all the work, what's one thing you wish you knew? And if somebody's out there listening and is like, hey, you know, we're gonna try to put together another lever to bring to industry to help. Like, what do you wish you knew and you're like, ah shit, yeah, I wouldn't have wasted a month trying to do that. And that's a good question. - Sorry, that was an unplanned one. So it happens every now and then, head in my leadies. - On structuring the deal or like making the deal work post like. - Both, I'll leave it intentionally. - Yeah. On structuring the deal, what I wished I knew sooner. Was we are still in this advent of trying to convince some of the best commercial firms in the world to care about what you and I like literally think about 23 hours of the day. And I wish they saw the upside that we see in why they should care about it way sooner. And I think part of that is like, you have these brilliant technical founders who are deep into the engineering weeds and see the commercial applications first. And part of that is just access. Like, I mean, to be totally candid, I can't fault a CEO for not having spent time in the halls of Langley or departmental war or on a range out in the middle of Nevada or, you know, somewhere else because they don't have the kind of access that, you know, you and I have. And so I think we probably spun some wheels figuring out like, - Good for you. - You know, like, if your interest is not there and you're not gonna dedicate resources in time to, you know, building the best commercial tech that could be pulled into government. Like, we're not seeing another Maven debacle, right? And, you know, listen, Google's totally turned it around, you know, since 2015 and the walk out, but like, obviously, there are still a number of companies who just like can't possibly affect that. - Google's not gonna walk out tomorrow over rice. - Right. - Who knows? - Never say never. - Never say never. But, right, like so. - One of the things in the tech company is now that there's a group of people. - Oh, I'm sure. And, you know. - I don't know if it'll be them to start, Josh. - Yeah. - Because I was like, something to do. - Yeah. I mean, the reality is, there are, so one of the things I wish I could have done a little bit smoother in working with the A16 crew was hardcore identifying the companies who were already, we're all in. We'll give you whatever resources you need to figure out are there and, and a lot of that, quite frankly, is not SaaS platforms. - Yeah. - I mean, they wrote the book on software's eating the world, but the reality is for, you know, the folks like Mike Dodd and Emil Michael and the clients we talk to, you know, in the Tier One units, it's like, it's all about hard power, you know, that's run by software. And so, you see this like Gaussian delker of like, you know, investment going into those tech companies and Silicon Valley has some of the best that can build hardware, but they're, you know, they're happened to be other regions in the United States who also build incredibly good hardware, whether it be Texas or Colorado or Pennsylvania or Ohio. Anyway, so that's one thing. Post implementation of the deal, I think like, if I'm gonna really make this work. And that's like, listen, getting the deal to the finish line is one thing, you know, I'll speak for myself 'cause none of my colleagues are here. I'm incredibly proud. I think people probably thought I was crazy and that's fine, but like, you know, I've knocked on death store enough like, you know, I can kind of say like, I'm just gonna go after the crazy ideas and that's what BeZellin pays me to do is to think a little bit different. But post implementation, I'm gonna take a lot of the use cases that, you know, and lessons learned from even some of your critiques, which have been 100% valid and from the $300 million venture fund of like, guys, there has to be an apparatus to move way faster to contract because my biggest fear is that we spend, you know, cycles three months, six months, nine months, you know, trying to get a deal across the finish line. And, you know, it's very apparent that it's not just the Department of War or, you know, the legacy bureaucracy and potentially government, whether you feel that there was or not, you know, it's like, people just want action, right? Like, can you get to bring this in on a tactical program, getting it into the hands of the people that use it in days and weeks and not months and years? - Oh, sorry. - And so that's kind of what my job is now, since the deal's done, Travis runs the fund. Like, I'm sure Travis gets annoyed when I call him now on deals because he's like, I got a boss. - Right. - He starts sending him some good fucking ideas. - I ain't got a flyer for emails. - Yeah. Like, get out of my way, go do something else. But I would assume that's what, you know, my C suite and then of course, like, still dealing with the A16 folks on the gross side, Jen, Mark Ben, there's this woman named Leila and Raghu, who are incredible of like, tactically putting wins on the board. And those wins ultimately translate to, you know, the Justin Finnellies and the Patrick George's of the world being like, that's, this is exactly what I wanted from you guys. Thank you for rocks. Thank you for actually listening to us and trying to make a change. - Yep. That's awesome. All right, last question, perfect follow up to that. BMAC is king for a day. You get the scepter, you got the crown, you get to wave it. Make one thing, change one thing, make one thing happen. What is it and why? Unbounded, it's a topic agnostic. I would like to do as much as I can do for this job in this company who has always had my back. But my last stand, I have said in anybody who is listening from Langley, listen loudly. The last job, last post I want is I want to work for Langley. - Oh yeah. - It is been in the back of my mind for 25 years. I want to change out the VC vest and work in the halls of Langley. I like that on the most important missions. And then, you know, quite frankly, I need, I mean, this is more of like a personal one, but I got this score just four year old. And so the rest of like what I think about when I'm not thinking about work is just being an awesome dad. - Like a, that's the right way. Was I grow fast? - Yeah, you got a bunch of, soon to be 18 and 15, you're like, "get it." - Fish. - I get like men. - Yes. - Yes kids now. - Yeah. - So, it's wild. So, yeah, hold on tight, man, because it, real quick, we're college visits every weekend, not sure if we're gonna work. - Yeah, that's wild, which is just fun. - And I'm just in the thick of it. I'm just in the thick of it, but like I had this moment last week, yeah, last week, and my four year old's taken Taekwondo, which I was never a martial art guy. Soccer, basketball, baseball guy. - I just plan hand-eye coordinates. - The teacher doesn't speak a lick of English, okay? It's this old like three degree black belt, you know, from Korea, and he's got 10, four year old, and five year olds in the room. My son doesn't listen to me. I mean, generally, he listens to everything. - Oh, I bet. - You know, Master Kwan says, and he just got, he broke a board with a sidekick to go from yellow belt to orange belt, and I was like, I don't know, I just had that like, fuck yeah, no. - Yeah, hell yeah. - Yeah, it was awesome. - Yeah, the rocks. - Yeah. - Dude, this is you're one of my favorite people in the industry. Like you've been a friend for longer than I can remember. Thanks for coming by, brother. I'm so proud of you. This was so much work. We've had a hundred sit downs, as we've been pushing the rock, and is it gonna get there, is it not gonna get there, and this is awesome for the community. This is what the country needs, so thank you. And thanks to everybody for tuning in. - Thanks, Chris. - Appreciate it. (upbeat music)