Brewing Success with Process Mining in HEINEKEN with Tim Bosman, Karolina Szczurek, Mateusz Gulinski

Welcome, welcome back to the "Mining Your Business" podcast, show all about process mining data science and advanced business analytics. We are joined by a long-time, long-awaited guest, guests, I should say. We are joined by Tim Bosman, Carolina, Sturek, Mateusz Galinsky, they are from Heineken, and we are very excited to talk with them about their center of excellence, their process mining journey as a whole, and what it means to do at digital transformation at Heineken. Let's get into it. Hello there, process mining community, and welcome back to "Mining Your Business" podcast. Patrick, we are recording again from a studio in Munich. I am kind of getting used to this. Yeah, exactly. I think it's going to be difficult to go back to our little rooms with our towels and couch cushions from now on, so I think this is going to be a staple now. Yeah, I hope that we grow as much that guests are actually coming from all corners of the world to us just to be on the "Mining Your Business" podcast because it's such a brand already. Exactly. We should get a travel budget to fly them. We actually do have guests from all over the world here today, with us is a company Heineken, and three people from this company which we will introduce in a second. I always like to begin with, and it's a lady in the room, so Karolina, first of all, welcome to the show. We are very happy that you are also part of it, and tell us a bit about yourself. Thank you for having me. My name is Karolina Sturek, I'm a global process mining expert at Heineken. I live in Poland, I live in Krakow, and I'm part of the COE process mining team at Heineken as well. I work in a company almost for seven years now, I've always been connected with the purchase-pay department, but for a couple of months now, I'm part of the strictly dedicated to process mining responsible for more of the functional side of things, and super excited I've been working with process mining for over a year now, so yeah, I'm looking forward also to this conversation that we're going to have. Karolina, where and when did you first encounter process mining? What was your first time and how was it? I looked at the tool and you were like, "Oh, this is interesting, I don't want to do anything with this." I think it was two years ago at the Krakow office, so process mining and Salonis was visible at the time in the company, but only a couple of people had access to it, and I think the very first thing that I remember was spaghetti, and I think that's always a mystery, that's always impressive, and there's a lot of questions marks in your head, but then over a year ago, we were building COE as well at the Krakow office, and one of the objectives was how to improve your business with process mining, and I was leading a team at the time using process mining, how to improve finances processes at the company at the time, and got hooked by it at the time. Yeah. So you were originally on the procurement side of things, and then transitioned into this analyst role with process mining, and were you expecting to see the types of things that you were seeing going in, or was that a little bit foreign to you looking back? Do you expect the purchasing side to look the way it does, or did you have any idea that things were going to be as complicated, or as spaghetti-like as they are? I was kind of expecting it though, when you know your process is a little bit, you kind of expect to see it a little bit more complex, but maybe not to the extent that I can see it right now. More of an end user perspective was definitely different perspective than I have right now. Right now, I can, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I have like a wider view, wider angle. So I feel so much more comfortable right now with the tool with process mining than I was with the end user perspective definitely. Yeah. Karolina, do you now consider yourself to be like an analyst, and you kind of work also on this analyst's role? And if so, what helped you getting there in the first place, because you know, from our perspective, a lot of people we talk to have actually data science backgrounds, or you know, they are engineers, such as ourselves. And what I kind of am trying to get is also some inspiration maybe for people. For me, these are super interesting, let's say, the sherpas who are bringing a little different framework, a little different mindset to the show, and what helped you getting and getting comfortable in this role. I've always had, so in my past, I've always been intrigued by, I would say, solving an issue, solving an mystery, and always been kind of intrigued by it. So process mining gives you the opportunity to dig, dig down, dig, dig into the problem, and try to understand what's the issue, where's the root cause. And always been part of the improvements, projects, and transformation projects in the company. So I've always had this kind of experience on how to collaborate in a team, what is the small one, and connecting all the different departments, to really coordinate in a way of a project, to get things done, to really understand what is happening. And I really truly believe that, I mean, the one team can make it happen, and people make it happen all together, really connect the dots, and use the right tools. And I think, really getting into the team, I mean, starting to be part of the team, this is how I really understood how, I mean, they helped me, really, to start things going. And yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Do you have any encouraging words for people that find themselves in similar situations as you did about taking that leap into the data analyst world? I mean, it might sound cheesy, but stepping out of your comfort zone, this is where the magic happens. And I really felt it. I mean, I took a big step stepping out of really my just P2P area and starting something new. And I saw the magic is happening. So just be courageous enough and brave enough and try it out. Well, we are always looking for talent in processing. We are saying it. We are striking this to see the confer things. However, another part of your team, Mateusz, who is kind of our counterpart when it comes to data science and data analyst, Mateusz, how did you end up in the role that you are currently taking in Heineken? The shortest. Karolina has been for seven years with the company. And I just joined the Heineken in January, so I'm quite short with the company. But I've been before with consulting companies. And a couple of years ago, I had a great boss who told me on date he could tell me that, okay, we'll go for a trip to London. I will show you something amazing. And I think that was 2015. And we were on the training for the perceptive, that was a different process mining tool. And it was amazing, because in the consulting companies, you might do a number of different things. And some of them are interesting, some of them are just work. And this one was, oh my god, that's really cool. And it wasn't easy to get the process mining projects for a couple of years. It was more business intelligence, which I also really liked. But we want, at some point, we switched from perceptive to salonis. And it was really, we were always looking for the projects with salonis. And then I got the opportunity with Heineken, that they actually, they came in and proposed that they can go for a project, like never ending project with them. So that's the story started. And I asked what in your eyes is the biggest difference between standard BI approach and like a BI projects to actually working with process mining, because to a lot of users, when they see it for the first time, they kind of think, oh, that's just another BI tool. We've had this before also on our podcast. And then how do you distinguish, and let's say, if you are about to explain to someone, what is actually the added value of that? Oh, that's. I thought that we are still doing the introduction, then now we are in the introduction. So, the biggest difference is that you get the full history. And what I'm really worried, sometimes also here in my current role, is that sometimes people are really going straight to the BI things, and are just looking for the reports wanted to export. And sometimes for them, the process export process variant is too complex, and they don't want to dig into that one. But actually, if you combine the data, and if you really look on the process, you can understand how it works. And you can understand the root cause and the problem that it's behind it. And it's sometimes difficult, but with this tool, you are able to track the connections that shouldn't actually be in the process, and they are there. And if you want, you can achieve all of those things with business intelligence, but you want to achieve these things that fast. If you want, you can go for Power BI or ClickSense, and to get those reports, but it will take you 10 times more. It will take you more time to do it. Is it more that you're framing it in the context of a process that helps you in this regard? Yeah. Exactly. If you have the process, you have the different approach, different view on this. Mateusz, do you work as a consulting company before now, you kind of work in Heineken almost, I would say, as an in-house consultant, sort of. I'm not sort of, sort of. We have a lot of coming up here for questions. What do you see? So, probably, a question would be how much, how do you enjoy that, how do you compare those to worlds, and what do you see differently? So we are externals. We have very little knowledge, not knowledge, but experience of how it is to be on the other side. What do you see as a big difference there? A lot of similarities that you still, in our position, if we are a COE, we have still our customers. We need to satisfy them and to bring the value to our customers. But the biggest difference is the fact that you have the ownership. And from what I learned, that's from the story from the Heineken, it's much way better if you have the ownership of the tool and ownership of the process, because with the consultants, many people have different ideas what to do, and usually consultants want to satisfy all of them and provide the projects to all of them, because that's the business. And I think that having to keep the central and to prioritize the things that are really important is the biggest difference, because you have the context within the company, which is super difficult to get, even if you have the best consultants, they want to have the internal context from the company. I mean, I know it is like this with me, I know you felt this as well, that when we consult companies, I often feel sometimes, I have to say goodbye to this customer now. I really like this analysis, what I build, and I have to say goodbye. On the corollary, it's also the opposite, it's like, I hate this data model, I'm so glad that I get to not do this anymore. Now, but with this ownership concept, do you find that, okay, you're just stuck with this now, and what you have is what you have, and there's no real type of satisfaction because once you take off a project, you're done with it, you can mark it in your head. But with this, there's just a continuous cycle of constantly improving the same thing. Actually, with Hainakan, it's so large that you have always new projects. So if you can have different focus, and you can go from different operating companies to the other one, and still have different frameworks, different problems. So it's still very, very, very similar to the consulting part, but with the adding plus of the ownership, and without having the sales and risk of going to the clients that you don't like. Mateo, before we move on to the third person here in the room, I have one last question for you. Could you, since you're the technical person here, could you kind of do a high level framing of what you are doing in Hainakan when it comes to the actual implementation of process mining? Where you are specifically in Hainakan, in the process mining journey, like where Hainakan is. All right. So we are very much focused on the process analytics, and sometimes it's more data analytics and data mining than we would like to say. But we are very focused on the analytical part, we are not very much into the automation within Selonis. We have other solutions that we are doing the automations within the Hainakan. And from the technical perspective, we have large landscape of over 20 ERPs, and we are lucky that they are integrated in one very good solution. So it was also a little bit easier to integrate there. And also we have different platforms that we want to connect to have the better, to have the full and to end coverage of the processes. Sometimes it's just, sometimes everything happens in therapy, but that's not the case for all of the operating companies. So we want to cover everything and we are implementing different platforms. Now Tim, moving on to finally you, finally, it's really tough for me to be quiet. I didn't know that he really wants to get the word. Can you please enlighten our deal listeners as to what your role is in Hainakan? Of course, of course. I mean, how great is this team, right? I mean, you hear these introductions. This is only going to be an anticlimax after this, but hey, finance process, excellence manager, math pool, meaning I look after the performance of our transactional finance processes in Hainakan. And our work in the team, we're also the process owner set, which is quite relevant if you look into the process mining side of things. I guess you guys know we've been using process mining in Hainakan already for three, four years, started from a more risk and control perspective, also a micro and raw at that point was around that. And since the mid of last year, we decided to give it some more specific attention and task someone to design and build a capability within Hainakan and process mining. And yeah, that's where I came in. So part of my role is about that. I do like asking the question about your first interaction with a process mining tool. How was your experience? Actually, there was not at Hainakan. So there was in one of the previous rules in the big four, as part of a financial audit, actually, where we tried to understand how the process were running and look at an appropriate audit approach for the process, but I think the entire principle was quite new for everyone. So we really didn't know what we were doing. We got so much data and so much insight. I think this spaghetti view again, there was no way that we could actually use it at that point. But I did fall in love a little bit on that side of things as specifically the combination between data and process for me was really fascinating. Now Tim, when you, what I was very intrigued by that you also worked in a role previously in South Africa, and since we do talk also to people in US and comparing the markets, I'm just interested. Is a process or is just a process improvement feel there completely differently compared to Europe? That's an ask question. I didn't see that one coming. Couldn't help myself. So funny enough, we go back often and we still interact with the same team. That I worked in at that point and I do know that they also now have quite a mature process mining capability, but it's really more around supporting financial audits on that side. I think in general, I mean, if you look at it from an SAP and a technology perspective, the South African firm was always one of the leading firms within PWC and at that point in time. Yeah, I think if they're not leading, they're catching up quite quickly. Yeah. Very nice. Can I ask, what does a finance process excellent manager do on a day-to-day? Well, sometimes I travel to Munich and then we do podcasts. Oh, I like this wife. Yeah, I mean, so in general, it's a cross-functional role. So if I look in the team, we have four transactional finance processes. We then talk approach to pay, we talk or to cash, business performance management or performance management and record report. And what I do basically is I support the four process leads is that we have on those areas when getting the insights into how their processes are running, looking at playbooks around how we can improve our processes and how they should interact with other functional owners inside the business. So it's basically about supporting all four processes on how we can improve. It's knowing a little bit about a lot of things, I guess. We love those roles. Tim and everyone, actually, we also, as a part of preparation, had three same questions for each of you. And now, since Tim, you're already warmed up by talking now, we will start with you and the questions. We will rehearse it before we start our, what are you proud of when it comes to your involvement in the process mining projects, the first one? The second one is, where does your interaction with the process mining tool actually look like? And the third one, where do you want to be with the process mining initiative three years from now? So Tim, let's start with you. What are you proud of when it comes to your process mining journey? Yeah, I mean, I'm massively proud of the fact that we are sitting here today. It's not just that we were with you guys. But if you look at the team that we've built and the capability that we've built within Hanukkah over the last year, it's really something to be proud of. So I guess that's what I'm proud of that we managed to do so. There's a lot of work still to be done, but yeah, it can be proud of where we are now. Nice. What does? So the biggest things that we are proud are usually coming from Alexandra or colleague that she's developing those. So I'm responsible for the smaller successes. But what I'm proud actually is the fact that I think that overall, I see that the improvement of the development process that we have, that doing this boring backstage work to arrange the connections, all of those things actually brings the value and improve the further development and providing the value to the business. It's a pure engineer talk, I don't know. What are Carolina? What I'm proud of is how in the couple of months I've set up this kind of running way of working with our customers with whom we have running use cases. So we've actually, I've hosted our first quarterly business reviews with them. And I think that also based on their feedback, this is a really good place for them and for us to kind of have this organized way of working to find ourselves where we are and also for them where they are with with the value realization and how we can improve their use cases as well and how that translates into their developing process mining capabilities one and see this community growing in Heineken. Very nice. Very nice. Then back to you Tim, what does your interaction with the process mining tool actually look like? How do you interact with it? To be honest, it's way too little. I spend most of my time on boring stuff like stakeholder management planning, budgeting and those kind of things. But you have weekends also, right? Right. It's not just weekends, it's also in the middle of the night. Finally. Now that you're on Christmas. Yours for a ton. I sometimes dive into the application and just play around a little bit, but usually that's at heart of all for hours here and fortunately. Yep. So I'm more lucky than Tim because there are two things. One are the problems that are coming from our customers or something to be checked and usually I play the role of support and help there sometimes. And the other, some for some of the projects, I still have time and capacity to actually develop and deliver some of the things both in Beckand and in the front end. We have help from the others, but sometimes I can do it myself. Okay. So you're the person when the data model crashes or something, you're the one that gets alerted. Yeah. That's the first one. Not the only one. To me, it's mostly based on requests from people from the end users. Any kind of request. So it's me to play and support them from a functional level. But that really allows me to also explore a little bit of functionalities there. I always find something new. And to be honest, recently I started to play a little bit and try to adjust maybe something from our technical point of view, so that's exciting for me as well. Yeah. Open there with the starting with the PQI and all of a sudden, you know, everything's red and nothing works. And then all of a sudden you forgot a comma and you put it in and all of a sudden everything works. And that satisfaction. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the third question, I guess, started within them. Where do you want to be with your process mounting journey in three years from now? Yeah. 10 years, but that's way too huge for so much over three years. That's a bit realistic. Sure. Well, I think our biggest target on that side would be that we have, we're taking over the world of Heineker. So we have a coverage of our operating company. Let's say we have at least half of our operating companies, which is already above 40, enabled with process mining and the local capabilities build there. I think that would be one of one of the achievements that that should be there. And on the other hand, also being part of our digital transformation that we're going through in Aneken, right? So really being embedded, pre post migration for the coming years in supporting that transformation with with our capability. We'll for sure get the digital transformation as well. This is very interesting and a lot of companies are on the same type of journey before we get there. Mateusz. Basically, I totally agree with Tim. So he took that part. But also what we want to have is not only the SAPs and the things that are happening there, but also the other platforms. It would be great to have in four years all of the production systems that we have to actually see how the beer is brewed in the Heineken to actually go through it with the Salonis and to have the communities and teams working on this data in the local operating companies. OK. How I see it, I mean, what I like to see maybe in three years is that the process mining is kind of like rooted in people's mindset. It's kind of like an obvious way to go when they think about continuous improvement or any kind of transformation is they consider it as one of one of the options, one of the elements in the improvement journey. And they have the right capabilities or at least they know who to turn to. So it's kind of like already rooted in the mindset. All right. Thank you for the answers. Moving on a bit, central excellence, it was a, it is still a big topic and a big theme of our past two episodes where we really look at how the organizations are actually well organizing themselves around this initiative and how it fits the context and the consumption of the reports and of the findings and everything. And having you three here at the same time, I think, let's do a little exercise. How does your typical week and interactions look like? Because we have three slightly different roles here, although part of the same team. And I would really like to know also for the audience to listen how they weeks actually different, how they work together. That's a tough one. I guess it all comes together with our, our dais that we have, which unfortunately do not occur every day. I mean, we might, we might skip, skip them, but that's where we come together as a team. But yeah, maybe to start from my side on what the agenda looks like on the pros of mining side. Right. I, I already told you it's part of my role. So not my entire week is filled with, with, with this topic, but most of it is. And I mean, it's, it's, it's constant stakeholder meetings on, on new demand on, on, on road map, on the digital transformation on how to approach that. And then every day, nine, which is for me, relatively early, I drop off my daughter at school. And then I jump into a call with these guys to see what we're going to do that day. I don't have a daughter, but it's there early. And I will add something. So basically, we use a lot of things from the agile and from, from Scram, a waste of work, and that helps us to actually put some frames to our work to give. So we have the timeline, we have the sprint running for two weeks. We have, we have the product road map. We have some stories that are coming, some requirements that are coming from the users. And we can bundle all of this into the one backlog. We can actually plan out the work. We are not 100% Scram with this, but actually all of the things already, but the things from the agile framework are really helping us there. And the user stories are coming straight from the business users that are using the analysis system. Both. Some of the user stories are coming from the business users that they would like to see something. Some of the user stories are coming from our product road map that we have. And usually in the product product, we have things like the deploying new system, deploying to the different opcals. Sometimes there are things that are coming from us that we see that there are something that we need to do, like migration to studio, or developing some new features. So that's a building up with Matt said. I mean, I'm here to provide really the support, the functional support there, yeah? So it's either providing some workshops or process recovery sessions with the customers, and also asking, like, answering to all the questions that they may have, yeah? So really coaching them on how to use it, and really just focusing on really moving forward with either their already running use cases or helping with the value realization, or simply picking up the new demands. So just constant, I would say, interactions with the stakeholders. But yeah, I mean, all the time we kind of keep really close touch with each other and see how we can support each other and record and hate, and usually that's with Matt. I mean, how we can connect the both functional and technical side, and Tim is always here. Support both of us, please. Speaking of stakeholders, how do you actually collect the requests and how do you prioritize and everything? Because what organizations very often find out very soon in the project is that process mining is very cross-functional topic. If you only work with one team, you're not going to get anything done because there's accounting, there is purchasing, suddenly you have also deliveries and everything. And suddenly you're talking to dozens or maybe even more people. How, also speaking of such large organizations as yourselves, how do you organize these exchanges, knowing what to actually focus on? Yeah. Of course, yeah. So we spend a lot of time on that. So I mean, we basically, if you look at our pipeline management or demand management, it's relatively structured. So we work with a lot of different functions within Hanukkah, so mostly on a head office level, there's already a lot of stakeholders that we need to keep happy, but that will also input demand, as you were saying, also to make sure that we do not sit in between these discussions as the COE, we prioritize really factual. So we have a scoring mechanism with points, so link to our strategy, link to our ambitions for that year, et cetera. So yeah, we keep it as factual as possible, and it's really important for us that we have a sign-off on our met by the Stierko, who represents all the functional owners or sponsors. And then, yeah, maybe Carol can speak a little bit to that as well. We use change in qualms to kind of push and pull, right? So to put the focus in the area of Hanukkah where we want to focus to be at that point in time, or maybe step a little bit back and make our pipeline a little bit smaller. But could you elaborate on this push pull? Yeah. Yeah. So it starts with the good stakeholder analysis, right? I mean, you need to know you're playing field within the entire company. So there's operating companies, global functions, programs, et cetera. And we have certain goals, which are linked to our Hanukkah strategy, which is called Evergreen. Of course, we try to contribute to that as much as possible. And based on that, we pick our areas within the company that we want to put focus on, so it could be their digital transformation, it could be that we are focusing on cost and cashflow, for example. So we would look into use cases and areas within Hanukkah that we can realize such benefits. And then with targeted change in qualms, right? So using internal social media, approaching stakeholders directly, et cetera, we can tailor a little bit on where the interest will come from. So up until now, we have no complaining. There's been more interest than we can handle, so it's a constant prioritization. Yeah. I have a question for Mateusz actually on followup on this. Do you also have a lot to say, especially when the new requests are pouring in from the technical perspective, because imagining and well, actually knowing how large of an environment we are talking about, there are certain technical constraints. Let's put it that way. It's not, it's just a challenge with some things. Do you also then say, guys, this is just too complicated. Let's just drop it and let's focus on something else. Sometimes yes. Sometimes we need to say that these things, we are using salonis, so sometimes we know that the data consumption that would come from this would be to, that would be more cost than benefit, or sometimes the complexity of the solution, or something, we need to also scale up the solution between the different systems. So if there is a tiny piece that is happening just in one system, and it would really break the other structures, that would be very difficult for us to implement. So if it's, we usually look from the perspective of the business case. If there is a business case for this, that it really makes sense for the business to have it. Then yes, that's great to implement it. But if it's just nice to have and it's a large cost for us, then no. One of the key roles, at least what the theme of Peter said in one of our previous episodes, he said that one of his major roles and what he thinks is one of the keys in successful COEs is lots of demos, just showing people everywhere and how often and as often as possible. Carolina is also part of your job doing a lot of demos and training a lot of people. And I think this is like one of the winning arguments, one of the key elements, when you really demo what process mining is all about. I mean, it's such, I would say it's still a relatively new thing, a new term that a lot of people are not familiar with. So they would always say, okay, what, but what is, can you tell me what process mining is? We have the opportunity to show based on real data, I mean, I mean, we've mentioned it already, this spaghetti view, yeah, I mean, this is one of things that really makes an impression. And if you show the data and what is all about and what it can do, based on real data, even just like a couple of minutes demo that can really strike an impression and can, yeah, leaves a mark with you. So one of the things that team of Peter also said is that in the course of doing these and demos, he was attracting a lot of people within the business to join the center of excellence to really go and do and improve it from all the sides. Is that something that you're also pursuing? Internal hiring. Well, it's a guy that's kind of what we did. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, I mean, we continue doing this. I mean, we really aim for really for the COE to grow and to expand. I mean, team already also mentioned it that we have such a, like, already a river of demand coming in that can over, yeah, I mean, it's already a lot happening, so and we hope that the company is investing in it and people are more and more interested and really see a value from it. So I hope this is the way to go, yeah. So you say that some people are already interested and generally you seem to have a good direction. Is there a part of your organization and a team that is already using the tool or is integrated in great into their daily work? And could you maybe be a specific and tell us like what are they using it for? Yeah. So one of the, this is actually the team that I came from. Of course. That's the one. Who's one of the objectives is to use process mining to improve the processes. And also from the automation perspective is to see how to bring more efficiency and to improve the processes. So they use really process mining on a daily basis to analyze, analyze the process, really mind the processes and see how they can maybe find the other use cases already to realize the benefits, the benefits from the current use cases that are running. And I can actually see that the team over there is expanding is growing. They actually kind of build their own maybe a group of people who are not part of the team, but are really using and kind of trying to hook those people again, again with process mining just to try it out to see what process mining is all about and what it can bring in. Now in terms of actually using the analysis, so some departments use it more or less, is there anything that you guys are doing to drive adoption with users or is that something that you leave up to the departments that request these analyses? So one of our key objectives as a team is really make sure that the process mining capabilities is something that sticks to sticks with people and people keep developing in this one. But I see how I can see process mining capabilities is still something that I would say it's kind of an aside skill. It's not something that people still see as one of the core skills and capabilities they will use to support their day to day processes. So it's really key to make people aware that this is beneficial and that is really important or that they can really benefit from it. So what we do is constantly coach people, kind of market it a little bit, but also something that we've set up recently is what we call share learn and reapply sessions. So for people, the end users to connect at one hour session and share best practices or how to use process mining, what are the functionalities that they've discovered and kind of champion each other as well and nurture this process mining community in our internal social media as well. So kind of make make ourselves visible and it's a promote process mining. Yeah. That's great. You also get support from the top some of course we do and it is really important. But as we mentioned before, there's a lot of different executive sponsors that we have in different degrees, so it's not one person that really drives it and owns it. I've never ran into a situation where I required a blockage to be taken away or a sponsorship to be shown and it wasn't there, but it is on demand. So I do need to ask and position and that's also where we spend quite some efforts. Moving on to, let's say our last major topic of discussion and we already kind of touched upon it a bit, is the digital transformation. Now, what does it mean for you when you're talking about digital transformation? Such a big topic. You know, I think we need to address all three of us from our perspectives. Yeah. Yeah. I'll start and then maybe you'll find out that everybody understands the difference. Yeah. And the thing is also we don't own it, so I mean it's such a massive thing going on. But basically we have a current set up where our global landscape is really diverse on a technology side but also on a template and on a process side of things. So the journey that we've embarked on starting this year is to move into one core of processes. So also the four processes that I mentioned to you earlier that set them in my team plus some supply chain and production, et cetera. To standardize that and at the same time also supported with a standardized, uniform landscape of an ERP core and business platform supporting the end-to-end process as we go. That's a project that we'll run for the coming years. And that's what we call at least that to me is the embodiment of the digital transformation that we're going through that program. It's kind of fun also there because as we are working with the team that's developing this core solution, we are kind of their customer as with Salonis as a platform, we need to connect to this new solution to make it works to different platforms. But also we are vendor for them, we are providing them Salonis dashboards, Salonis views for the, I think at this moment for processes and three are really process mining processes, P2P, DTW and order to cash. And we are, so from the one side we can see what do they need, what information they are looking for during the inter transformation and from the other side I get the view on the implementation and how I need to connect to the different platforms. And maybe to add from our perspective how we support the digital transformation is starting with process analytics. We help at this moment to understand how the processes actually run in those multi-systems and multi-platforms and the next step will be just to really use process mining to design and help well, helping design the future process. And finally and I think hopefully I mean to use to check how the future process will be, will be run against the standard process or the desired process, yeah. So using the conformance checking and hopefully also in the future Salonis or process mining will be one of the core platforms to refer to. Now in a big organization such as Heineken, I'm sure there is lots of different BI tools and different centers of excellence that do a whole bunch of things in the digital transformation space. Now how do you position yourselves in that space and is there some sort of, not committee or anything, but some sort of strategy as to what problems Heineken will tackle with process mining or maybe tool X or tool Y or is it a free for all or how does, how does that definitely not a free for all. So I mean that is, that question as such is part of a digital transformation, right? Is finding out how you want to set up your architecture for the longer term or do you want to do with a relatively simple topic like process management, what are the different toolings and capabilities that you want to support that and you want to avoid duplication of course, both a functional and a technical site. And I guess it's having constant conversations with architects or people that think about how this stuff should fit together with end users, with functional owners and just being part of the program. I mean, that's the most key thing. I mean, if, and that's also why we're spending so much time on this, have from the customer side of things that met with just referring to if we miss out on this, then you might lose your right of existence. Right. So it's a very key key thing for us. Yeah. I guess if you talk to our RPA person, they will tell you that the best thing in the world is RPA, if you talk to a person, the best thing in the world, clout, clout everything. So kind of balancing out between these worlds and fighting for your position as well. Yeah. And even the difference to our alignment between BI and mining, right? I mean, we make it really simple by by by saying and explaining constantly in BI is about what is about where you see there and mining for us is about the why. So you go deeper, and there needs to be a full on alignment, of course, between definitions from a reliability perspective, but also between data models that you use from a more efficiency perspective. Could you get a little specific and just tell us what kind of question you would for instance, answer with process mining on this digital transformation, like what would be the type of the question that the business might ask and how do you facilitate with process mining and with the dashboard and answer this type of a question. So one of the biggest questions is to understand what's the standard, for example, was the standardization level that we have in the different operating company in their systems and how to how to actually understand the processes and what are the different process flows. So what we do is to split the, for example, if we have P2P, to split the P2P into different process flows that we have for the standard PO, for the perceptual acquisitions, and for the intracompany and the Sarah. And then we are assessing what the standardization level of the process is there, because that also allows you to go from this situation that you are, that end users are overwhelmed with the data that's coming to them. So they can see if they are focused just on the spot PO, they can see how the process runs, the standard level, what's not standard, and what's how the process is actually executed there. Now, Mateusz, can you actually speak to a little bit about the technical difficulties that Heineken is currently facing in their setup, or I mean, because we've talked about like the size of the environment, and I'm going to pump my own ego here that I spend a lot of time writing Python code to roll it all out in the same ways and things like that. So a lot of blood sweat and tears from my site went into this as well. And hair, yes, exactly. So can you elaborate a little bit on how that looks, the difficulties, where the challenges you had to overcome, and where you see this going in the future? Oh, yeah. So there's a number of challenges. If you have such a diverse situation, so many obstacles that we operate in companies that we have, and different systems, then if you want to make change, you don't really want to make change in the 20 scripts to go through them and manually make the change. Change, and I'm very happy for your scripts. Actually, that's a huge improvement that we have them, and we can roll this out, because without it, it would be really pain to go to deploy any change that is global one. The other thing is the size of the data. You can have, and that's a tricky thing, because you can start with one of the differences time to do the analysis and the impact, the footprint of the data is not that large. You can think, okay, that's just a hundred or 12 gigabytes, but then you scale it up to the size of the Heineken, and then you realize that loading the constable for the whole company doesn't really make sense. That's really costly, so that's the other problem. I'm talking about here a little bit, I found the device there. Carolina, you mentioned that you are also talking to a lot of different parts of companies, and since you have a lot of different systems, a lot of different obstacles, I guess it's a lot of different processes, and part of the process mining is obviously this conformance and trying to make the pro standardization of the processes. How exactly, let's say, you find a problem in one of the parts, or let's say, three out of 20 organizations have a problem. How do you then tackle it? Do you show them the dishburns, through them here, here you are, really making a problem or issue in the process, and you should fix that, or are you, since you are a centralized COE, are you trying to fix it, let's say, in a way that you change something in the system so that you prevent this from happening in the first place? I wonder if that happens. I mean, maybe different, let me put it differently. Do you also compare different parts of organizations, again, each other, and then trying to pinpoint who is more efficient in certain things, and then, let's say, try to use them as a role model for the others? Not at this moment, no, we guys help me if I'm. I mean, there's internal benchmarking that happens in the operating companies themselves. So they look at the different sides of their business, especially for the bigger upcoes where they look at the different distribution centers that they have, and they can compare, of course, from a central perspective, but that's not us, that's more the functions that are the end users. They, of course, are very interested to see, which operating company is best in class, but to Carolina's point, there's a lot of potential there, and I think we are moving in that direction. And also, there we're being enabled by that standardization that's happening, right? So also with the digital transformation happening, we'll be able to benchmark and to compare operating companies much easier, because currently, there's a lot of deviations from the template. And that would be super bold to come to the operating company and tell them, "Okay, we can see from the headquarter perspective that you are making mistake there." I think that they wouldn't like it, so that. They wouldn't believe it. And actually they would be right. Would you recall some funny or interesting finding that you had through process mining that you were just wondering, "How is it possible that something like that is happening?" I heard from the, so we're now in the pilot phase of this digital transformation, and therefore operating companies that are in scope, and I heard from one of the on-site visits that recently happened that they found out that there was a process flow that they didn't. that they forgot, right? So that it wasn't mentioned in the interviews, it wasn't mentioned in the survey that were sent out before, and they found it through process mining and actually started the discussion. And if we had not picked it up with our data, then probably it would have been forgotten. And when we go to an op-code with deploy, we'd be like, "Yeah, but what about this part of the process?" Then one that no one wanted to mention. No, indeed, yeah. One of my favorite ones I've heard was this RPA bus that were just pinpointing between one another, just one type of document there and back there and back forever. So you find interesting things sometimes. Yeah. Cool, before we wrap up the episode, I also have one last question for each. What gets you excited about your current role? So for me, I'm feeling like I've been stuffed for the project that I really like and I can stay there forever. Yeah, I am. I'm more a people person, so what gets me excited is to see a capability growing and the team of people growing and people getting exposure going outside on their own, so that makes me very, very proud, yeah. To me, that's a learning journey. I mean, I feel like there's no, I mean, I can't even see the end of it and I've just started, so there's a lot of new things but I haven't, I didn't expect so many new things that I've already learned, so I can't even imagine what's there ahead of me. So especially with Salesforce, just like right around the corner and I know there are lots of new technologies and everybody that we speak to and especially at ICPM that we visited, there's a lot of buzz and there's a lot of excitement in the air about the new things that are coming with machine learning and augmented processes and all these things. Is there anything that you've seen that is in the works in the future that you're really excited about to try out at Heineken? I would love to try the process simulation. Yeah. We would too. But we are not at this place now. To me, it is about, it's a very, very small microtopic, but it is about connecting BI with mining, so a power BI integration, for example, we're interfacing that can happen there is really interesting to me towards that point that we discussed earlier. How do you position the different tooling and capabilities together? I mean, these are the action flows. The first time that I heard about it, still from the end user perspective, that was like, "Wow, let's do this. We're not there yet, but I like to see happening." Final question, where can people find out more about you or eventually reach out? We're a small team that we're growing, so I don't know if we can point down to a link in the podcast or anything, or they can contact with them, but yeah, we're hiring, but in general, I think come see us in Sailor's Fear, but we're going to hear this, and we are very open in doing references and really happy to have direct connections with peers and talk about these topics. I would throw it over that actually, yeah. Very happy that we can actually help to facilitate this for the community as well as its intriguing communities we've seen on international process planning conference in Bolzano recently. So since we are recording a day before Sailor's Fear, although this is airing a little later, I'm really looking forward to that as well and also to hear you guys there. Anyway, that is it for today, so once again, thank you very much for joining us here, Life in Munich. I hope that you are enjoying this beautiful city. From what? You're still about to join. Well, let you know in a couple of days. The start is amazing though. Thanks a lot, guys. Let me just do a short recording after that just to recap on how was the city. For you, dear listeners, as usual, thank you very much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed it and find value in the content that we've created for you. If you have any questions, reach out to us on LinkedIn. You can also leave us an email at [email protected]. We have a website. We actually have a new website as process and so shout out to our website. Shout out to the new website and to everyone who was building that. We also have this little integration of podcasts. So check it out. It looks pretty cool. And yeah, we will be looking forward to be with you also with another episode of mining your business podcast. So thank you very much. And enjoy. Bye. Thank you. Happy mining. Happy mining.