Brett Ratten Interview - Head of Coaching Performance and Development - Pre Season 2026

[Music] Today's guest on the Talking Hawks Podcast was a captain and apprenticeship player at Carlton before life took him along the coaching route. He's now doing a tremendous job at Hawthorne in the role of head of coaching performance and development and it's a great pleasure to welcome back to the Talking Hawks Podcast, Brett Rutten. How are you, Tim? I'm well, thank you very much for joining us. It's been a long time between drinks. Yes, it's the season's finished and we've sort of had the build-up for it's next year and it affected a lot on what we can improve on and also look at the good things that we did throughout the year, 2005, so it hasn't been a while but we're getting closer to the start again, mate. Less than 50 days now before the boys get out on the park, we know we've got practice match against Jolong coming up, then we've also got the game against the Western Bordogs as well. So plenty of time between now and that start of the season against the joints for the coaching group and the players to come together, but you've just come back from your Christmas break. Can you tell us, how was that time off for you? Yeah, we go down to McCray. We camp on the foreshore and that's pretty fortunate as a kid, but Hawthorne had a site down there and he had it for 45 years and then we wanted to get into the same section and we were on a waiting list for eight years, but eventually he said he was going up to Queensland and we actually got his site, so we've been there for nine years and so add that to the 45, it's been 54 years for the family on that site, so it's pretty cool, the kids absolutely love it and they ride their bikes and we're going in the beach and it's just a fantastic time to be with the family and add friends to a weight spot there. That's fantastic to hear and I'm sure it's also nice to get away from foodie as well for a little bit of time. Yeah, it's pretty solid as you when you're part of it seems to follow, you people ask a lot of questions and come, yeah, they want to know about the Hawthorne and who's a team on the rise and things like that, but it is just nice to go away from the daily, the journey up to work and just having a break where you can just do something a little bit different and it's actually to be around your kids and family and it's really nice. Hopefully it's got you rested and recharged and ready to go for this season now. Before the Christmas break, there was a bit of a report that came out about Melbourne trying to lure you over to the demons. Can you tell us about the approach and why you decided to stay at the Hawks? Yeah, I was sort of, I was way up in, we do a family trip to Cundrupp Barram and go to the Malamine races, my wife's family from up there and we've got a bit of a family tradition. So we were actually there on the Saturday and they rang and just it quiet and, you know, because we were away, I sort of said I'll have a little bit of time to think about it, but it didn't really take you much time at all. It was sort of the role I'm in and, you know, what I do know how, you know, four school operates and how they are as a woodie club have been. They're fantastic in my time, the first time for six years and now this time as well. So it was, yeah, it was pretty easy for me, but I was very glad and very honoured that, you know, what they've done in Melbourne in the women's space has been, you know, pretty good in the stability that, you know, they've got mixed gear in for ten years and they've had great success in the women's space. So it was quite an honour, but, you know, I had a role to play at the Hawkes and I want to make sure I could build that and I really enjoyed my time there. So, yeah, that's, that's sort of the short version, but that's really the, yeah, the customer, really, about the decision that's made. But Hawkes want to know where we're at and what we're doing at what time to club they are. We're very grateful that you wanted to stay at Hawthorne because we know you were doing a fantastic job in that coaching role that you've got where you are, the head of coaching performance and development. Can you tell us like you've been at the club now for three years, you rejoined the club at the end of 2023. How is your role developed in your time back at Hawthorne? It probably started this year, probably taking a little bit of a different, I suppose, focus. You know, I suppose that the first few years would really do, you know, work alongside, you know, the Kate Simpson's a day because those coaches there to try and work with them and help develop them as coaches would serve benefits as a job in their open development and at working alongside them. This year's a little bit different because of the crop that we have in with Dave Mira, Jason Quim, and Jason DeHanneson coming in. All the young and raw coaches really, Jason Quim said to you is an Adelaide and but outside that they're going to be coaching, you know, aligned at Fox Hill, Jay-Jay would do the back line and Jason Quim's will do the midfield and then you've got Dave Mira coaching the team. So I'll be probably putting people climbing to those boys through the weekend, even on the weekends of times, to be with them and if I can't get to the NFL, I will, but it will be really to try and upskill and to developing those younger coaches that will really complement our coaching group, which we've got a wealth of experience now with, yeah, Gia coming on board as a head of development, but yeah, you've got Dave and Kyle Adrian pick from there and the two coaches that I mentioned before, they've done a really good job and in their personal development as coaches and very accomplished now as assistant coaches. So you obviously spoke about bringing you across, you know, Daniel J. Ensou, a cuser who's now the head of development. You spoke about Jason Williams and Jason DeHanneson who are going to be doing a wonderful job at Fox Hill working alongside Dave Mira who's come across. How have you seen the shake-up in terms of the coaching group and how do you think it's going to enhance that coaching group as such? I will, you know, it's always, you know, to put people to leave, it's, you know, several of you don't want to leave, but sometimes what happens is opportunity and that that happens whether it's a player or a coach, but, you know, they have some new ideas and just different lanes from different clubs to come in and, you know, different philosophies that allows us to maybe teach you with it, maybe change a little bit about some of the things that we were doing. You know, even when you're sort of improving, you're not even playing well, it's always not perfect. And you're looking in the coaching space or for team performance, you're trying, you're trying to get to the top. So you're always looking for perfection and just to have some different ideas, I think that's been great to the coaching group that you hear from the others and, you know, help shape that program, which is pretty cool, but we're always trying to improve our program, whether it's out on the training track, in the in the shed, we craft our presentations, the way we look at things, our power analysis, all those things, I think just getting a different perspective from another lens, which, you know, we've got J from S and N, you know, J, J for the bulldog, that JW from J Swims from court Adelaide. So that's good. And Dave Mira comes from a, you know, working in the school education space, he has a different view of, you know, doing different things like that. So I think we're going to get a lot of 1% as out of having the coaches come in and give us their views of how they think things should go or just some ideas that they have. And you speak about obviously these ideas that they're able to bring to the table. We know there's three significant changes that are going to happen in the AFL this year. There's a new jump rule for the rucks. We've also got the last disposal out of bounds. And finally, the addition of a fifth interchange player instead of a substitute. How do you feel one that these changes will impact the game, but two, as a coaching group, how do you try and cater for and plan for those? Well, we've done a bit of education with the rucks. We've had the young boys out a few times with videoing, the jumping of the rucks just to get some clarity around it. And the great thing the AFL did this year was bring these rules out really early. And I think it gives them all types in the rucks space the opportunity to, you know, create the technique that they need for the slight change with the rules. So that's been good. So we've worked a fair bit with that to just have a look at the techniques of our equipment and where it could actually be a benefit or actually all be careful of this. So we've got to be a bit of recording with that. I think the interesting part will be around the the extra interchange. We've had a couple of chats around that, but I think most teams would strategize quite differently whether they want to take an extra tool or runner. Do they do they bring in what to the season where they maybe rest some players or is it an opportunity to pick back a player that's maybe a little bit underdone where you can only play 50% he actually could make you play straight back in the scene is it could be thought he was, yeah, the player that you needed to raise win the game. And it's fantastic insight into what could possibly be happening and also how the club is trying to look at catering for these new changes that are going to happen. And as you said, it's great that the AFL have introduced these changes early on rather than on the eve of the season, which has happened in the past. In the past, rats we've spotted you both up in the coach's box and also down on the boundary line during games. How do those two vantage points differ and which one of those do you prefer? I was very up-minded with it. It was really when Sam decided to come down I went up and they had to control the box. So sort of just working with Sam what he wanted and then just trying to work with the roles of his play. I worked with Dave Hale on the phone and they're just around some of the vision in that for players. A lot of re-enstoppages with the midfield is the one that has a favourite of work to be done with stoppages and changes and things like that that can happen. So I was doing that post at the time and then Max was doing Sam and just some of the messaging going out to players and things like that. But we would work all together and we would review our bench box weekly. We have a rating and a report system that we do and comments about how can we do a bet and this week coming up and what was the replacement of last week. Just like the players they analyse their game and we do as a coaching group from the box and the bench. That's some fantastic insight into what goes on in terms of the coaches box. I guess in terms of the coaches box you said at times if Sam went down to the boundary line you would you would go up to the coaches box. Can you take us into a coaches box on game day? What does it like because obviously each coach is looking at something slightly different. How do you bring it all together? I think it's trying to be collaborative with what's the biggest issue in the game or what's going on in your area I think. Sometimes we can sort of try and fix all the problems and every coach but try to make sure that everyone stays to their role or if they have an idea when it opens up about if anyone got any ideas around their ball movement or team it means we can't stop at the moment and then we open it all up but sort of have a bit more of a process. What happens on game days emotion gets involved. You can't help that. It's part of the game and then what else also gets in with the emotion is the scoreboard and then also the biggest factor is time. Have you got enough time to catch the opposition in the game or if they're coming at you finish the game off before they catch you. There are things that come into the game but I think more of a bit of a process of how we go about things and getting everybody to just sort of give the right information or the key information I would say in their area to help with the decision-making of the of the box which is critical and really to support Sam. He's quite a student with the game in that but very tough for one person to make all the decisions. I think the power of the decision making of the box is the collective brain power and IP and everything that we have in their work together. He spoke about Sam being very astute and we know he's he's one of the best strategists in terms of the game. You've known him for a long time. You were part of the coaching panel when Sam was still playing and then when you rejoined Hawthorne it was very early on in Sam's coaching tenure. How have you seen his development in terms of the coaching sphere? I think he's probably reflects the team at times. He's grown from a young coach with a younger team to now with groups matured. We've brought in a couple older players with mature players with Maris and Fatton last year and I think yeah that's a reflection of his moving with the team in that too but what I do know is he works hard and he works hard on himself to improve so you know he in us of the players what he asks of the players he can live as himself so yeah he's going to try and on any way to have success and you know he's very driven in that and yeah he did that from an early day. It's like even with his playing he he's setting himself up to be a coach you know when he did an NBA and things like that where you know he got great team tools around him you know he's positioning himself to give himself best hands and preparing himself for success. I've seen you coaching that's what I know about him he's very driven very competitive and yeah he's pushing the envelope to make sure that the team is on the right path and he's on the right path which is great. In terms of that drive and making sure that the team is on the right path if you have a look at the past two seasons right so we've reclined that latter quite quickly you know making the semi-final in 2024 and then obviously the prelim last season it was a turnaround that shocked many football opponents. What do you feel has been the biggest catalyst for that on-field transformation? I think sometimes in your coaching there's moments defining moments where you've made a decision where you have made a strategy change or you've made a statement around your standards or what you want to do you know we had that goal coach game from 24 I think post that it was very strong with the group and really you know really put it to them around what we would set and what we voted and I think some of those moments in your coaching journey for any coach could put all that can really shape where your team goes and he's done that really well and nailed those moments and really lifted the group to give him great clarity a great direction to help help out performance. And since that goal coach game in 2024 there's certainly been a stark turnaround which as a supporter is absolutely wonderful to see last season we obviously made the prelim and it was a bit of a heart break we had a lead and then fell to the cats unfortunately by 30 points which ended the premiership hopes. What came out of the coaches review of that game and was 2025 still considered a success despite not ultimately going on to win the flag. It's interesting you know how do you measure success it's not always a win beside your name and some growth of individuals and the team collectively I think I think we we put a better season together than we did in 24 so you know we did have a little dip in the middle but we were more consistent in the way we went about some things we had a great run in 24 but I think we look at it as it's you know another step forward that's part of the journey but the next part is probably maybe some of the detail of how we go about it maintaining that system see or all the way we we do things I think we've just looked good we've done some things right but did we maintain it throughout that pre-linear game no probably not and that was the difference in the game where we couldn't sustain what we're after and to the credit but to put on the night yeah unfortunately it wasn't a wasn't a great feeling at the end and I'm sure for the players and the coaches as well it's one of those ones that's burned throughout the off season and as one that's going to drive 2026 for the club we spoke about Daniel Jones who accused of coming over is the head of development he's come across from Eston and Hawthorne hasn't had a player debut since Ethan Phillips in round 10 of 2024 against Port how important do you think Gia is in terms of that development role and I guess how are you going to be working with him to make sure that we continue to grow these young players that are coming through the system well the first the first part is working with Daniel is you know he is is very experienced he only role he hasn't done but we taught up before he started and had a good chat and really my role is to support the program that he's presenting and just you know catch up with him have some chats to make sure that I can support him and the other coaches within that program and just keep assessing what they're doing and how they're going about it but you know he's he's got some great ideas it's been it's been fantastic the program so far with everything that those boys have done under Daniel's watch but you know it's interesting you know about debuting you know dig me only had really had a couple of kids drafted from the final year before the 24 seasons so we didn't have a lot of youngsters this year we have a few more with our pride so that that might look a little bit different but you know I think I think do they have to do they have to play AFL putty to say they've improved I'm not sure I watched Henry Houseweight play this year and he went from a player that averaged around 20 possessions at the FL level to a player that averaged cost of 30 at the FL level and I would say he improved efficiently in a 12-foot period and only played it you know a handful of games at AFL level so I don't think it's always you have to play AFL to say you know you've improved you can actually play AFL and play all year and you know improve your numbers here you go about it you know it might be a key to bender that doesn't get beat you know no I'm a raspy play no afL games are in my play team but if he has a you know he's in where he's no one to keep goals on him at VFL level and we finish that play and he doesn't play you have to say he's had a significant ear at VFL level so how do you measure how do you measure development it's an interesting question but I'm a bit of a believer if this throws it doesn't have to be an AFL level that would be fantastic but it doesn't have to be at AFL level to say you've had success in your group as a player that's a very fascinating insight if that's not an insight into into that because you're right you do look at players like Henry Houseweight and also know I'm a ras last year who at VFL level work we're doing some really wonderful things for Box Hill you spoke about the new draft days and yes we've just got five who've come in there's been one that you've been seen to be working with a training sort of one-on-one especially around stoppages and clearances and that player is Oli Graves can you tell us about the work you're doing with him? I've done a bit of work and I've always had walks last time because I did stoppages and being Sam sort of asked me to maintain the craft and the touch element around stoppages and you know ball control and you know cleanness with players especially amidst so just being doing work around there and a lot of austerity and things like that so just doing a bit with Oli is it great to be willing to want to know and say that for all our draft days I've been really impressed with their efforts but their efforts are trying to get in there and you know really get paid in there you know some of it in the you know the competitive space of hard tackling and driving and some of them got smaller bodies but they're they're very competitive and willing to be there in the contest but Oli's a big kid who's got great stoppages craft and just trying to hone in on what we could do with him to you know to get him to perform you know at a total level and hopefully straightaway he's going well but yeah that's all I sort of do saying with Ken McKenzie done a lot with Connor National last year so just trying to work with some of those boys to see if we can win more stoppages than maybe Bumble or do so we're a bit cleaner there and get the ball going our way now you spoke about the mood for it unfortunately we all know that Will Day went down last week with a dislocated shoulder can you give us any update in terms of how days he is and now we were just waiting on that couple of things but that should come out today on what is going on with him so yeah we're just sort of waiting there to go go bit slower to get the right information before we act but yeah we'll find out a bit more about that obviously with will potentially not being available for the start of the season it means that there's great opportunity for some other players to step up in terms of that midfield group and in your playing day you started as a half back and then became a star midfielder in the comp and we've seen this preseason a couple of glimpses of players who haven't played midfield before for Hawthorne with both Connor McDonald and Josh Weddle having an opportunity in that midfield group how have you seen their transition to that midfield so far? yeah they're getting sort of snapshots of it still playing in some of their other roles and that but they're just giving you more exposure to some of the players that could play through their preseason at a great time you always have two teams when you play against yourself so instead of just having the four or five midfielders that you have on game day year to get 10 and get to roll through in a training session especially when you start to feel a bit of 18-18 to be half so that part of it is great exposure for players that might get a look at it through the season so that's the benefit of preseason and letting them you know sometimes in season it's hard because you haven't got much teaching time it's hard to pick up new skills and and do things because you might be on a six day turn around even a seven with a travel it makes it a little bit tricky but in preseason at time you go a little bit slower educate review and just really help the player understand the role and what they have to do so yeah that's that's been great to see those players through this in terms of downed training I heard Dave McCay the other day talking to a couple of those players that we just mentioned and the word he kept repeating to them was repetition repetition repetition how important is it I guess to have a different voice in that midfield group we know David Hale did a tremendous job as a midfield coach he's now swapped with Dave McCay and Storm's taken over the opposition analysis and Dave's now taken over the midfield group how important is it at times to get a different voice I think it's stimulating to the players I don't think the message will change significantly but there will be changes yeah DMACC's again a little bit different the storm and you know that's what we'll get on the flip side when when David's looking at opposition and strategy he'll look at a bit different than DMACC so that's the benefit of that it's always part of a coaching group changing roles and helping develop as coaches as well so that's good but I think the it'll help the midfield group you sort of want to give them three years maxes as my coach it's sort of being that the path the pathway at most so yeah that's that'll be good for you know joy to see something different than the DMACC values or just something a little bit different but the key messages probably won't change significantly at all you're speaking in terms of the opportunity to do a lot of coaching a lot of teaching over this break and we've got the camp to talk to you that's happening next week how important is that camp in terms of helping both the playing group and also the coaches to to gel as a group and also to fine tune the game plan for the year yeah it's been it's been one that we this is our third year so every year we've gone just down a tour fee we we sort of train on the way down through the camp and then train on the way back up to Melbourne it's been beneficial for I think finalizing some things whether it's line coaches catching up with these playing group mentor the coaching mentor groups that we have making sure that players are you know on top of their excellence plans and things like that so it's just a great opportunity to have a bit more downtime in a casual environment but we're still we're still thinking about performance and how we get better and it's just those opportunities where you know you're away from the play from the club that's fantastic to hear in terms of that you've just moved in to our new home at the Kennedy Community Centre in your time in 40 you've been at Icon Park you've been at Arden Street you've been at Waverley and now at the Kennedy Community Centre how does the Kennedy Community Centre compare to the others both for the playing group and also for the coaching staff it's an assembly just a shed space alone which is sort of the warm up area and you know it's 60 to 63 metres by roughly nearly 40 with an oval nets it's got everything there so I'd say the players are touch the ball a lot more this year because of the floor space which helps their craft and that's just that space alone is unbelievable for coaching and mobility players so yeah we're very fortunate you know with the game and the you know we brought it out the team so by time you think started comes back all those years ago and you know Princess Park was amazing but our warm up space was tiny and now you see Icon Park and you see some of the other venues that have got these floor spaces and opportunities for players and the gymnasiums and things like that but I'd have to say right here right now the Kennedy Centre is up at the tree with everything the recovery part with the swimming pools and everything the gym the shed that we have the meeting rooms and then you go to the two ovals and then you've got a rebellion on the other oval as well as it's stated the players are very fortunate and so the coaches to work in an environment like that yeah it's pretty special that's definitely a fantastic space and for all those Hawthorne supporters who haven't had a chance yet to get out to dingley to have a look at it it is well worth your time this 2026 preseason rats who's surprised you who do you think has been one of those players it's been a real standout it's been interesting I think we sort of do some voting through the preseason we've got a team's come and we vote every training session about best on track and there's been a lot of sessions where there's been a lot of players with votes I think the other day we counted it out with the coaches that there's 16 players that all got to vote whether it's three to all multiple votes for one but 16 players in a session that shows the impact the players are having and how they're going about it but one that didn't play a lot of pretty last year but I think no of a race from a young players corner view has had a fantastic start the preseason and he's going really well so far and I think someone like Jenny, Connor McDonnell, Maury and with that sort of those small boards of having a big impact as well training so yeah it's been great to watch and what has been you know very impressive is how are they pushing themselves individually but then also collectively as well so I think to just pinpoint the couple I think is unfair on a few because I think there's a few bikes that have had great preseason. If I'm being down there and having a look this certainly a lot of players who are putting in the hard yards both during the preseason but also during that offseason break as well and it looks like they are chomping at the bit for the season to start. What are the expectations for the Hawks in 2026? It's always about improvement so what does that look like we'll have to wait and see but that's what I'd say is we want to improve this year as we do every year but that'll be the key thing for us and what's it look like and might look a little bit different because even through the three feet that I was involved in every season was different and we finished in a different position every year and it's about making sure that you're ready to perform when you get to that final series and put your best forward wherever you finish so I think hopefully we can set ourselves up in a position where we can perform at our best when you know that September actually comes so I think improving is a group with a critical part. Yeah definitely looking forward to that improvement. The last question we have for your rats on this episode the talking fox podcast you spoke about being part of the three feet obviously that was a real highlight for you in your first stint at Hawthorn. What's been your highlight in your second stint since returning at the end of 2023? I would probably say the growth of some of our coaches and I'd say the team we haven't had the success of we're all looking more but we we're having through it's a group and as you said quite quickly but to see some of the growth of our coaches and how they're going about it and then to see the impact of their growth on the players I think that's why some of our players are improved as well so I would say yeah just you know to watch your Kate Simpson and David Kay you know those those points go about their business that's been really pleasing and rewarding when you work closely with them as well so yeah I think it's a little bit different when you're a line coach and that you're looking for that group that you're working with that influences the team part of the game but when you sort of in my space now with a different role it's sort of looking at individuals growth and watching and getting enjoyment out of that because you know if you can influence a coach he's got 15 players or so that he works with hopefully your influence on him and his growth influences those 15 players and then influences the team so it's just a different lens to look through but yeah sort of looking at more individual growth than the collective growth I would say. We look forward to seeing the continued growth of Hawthorne both on field and off field and we look forward to seeing you're working with that next wave of young coaches who've come into the side so it's coming to the club and hopefully we'll see Hawthorne be able to take out a premiership at the end of 2026. That would be that would be fantastic that's what we achieve and yeah that's where we're all playing for that's where we are part of it so yeah we can we're putting our best foot forward and that's what we can do and then yeah that it's going to be up to us to put everything into place and and see what we can do in 2026. Thank you very much for your time rats and we look forward to seeing you down at the KCC during the rest of the preseason. Thank you mate, great chatting.