BRENDAN PATRICKS: Sleight of Hand in Self Tapes

- That one audition. - That one audition. - That one audition. - That one audition. - This is that one audition with Alicia Oxy. - Welcome to the Honest Humorous and Inspirational Conversations with your favorite on-screen storytellers and Hollywood influencers who reveal their most life-changing audition tales and survival skills they've collected along the way. - Today, we're joined by Brendan Patrick, the British actor and close-up magician, whose 20-plus-year career has taken him from the West End to a claim series like Downton Abbey, Rivals, and Gentlemen Jack. And today, he's sharing how, picking up his first deck of cards, a 21, after his father gave him a tiny book of tricks, sparked a lifelong obsession with magic and ultimately transformed the way he approaches acting. So today, in this episode, we're gonna get into the behind the scenes of him working on Downton Abbey, what happened in that audition. And he shares clever self-tape techniques he picked up while performing virtual magic shows over Zoom, stories from set with Tony Collette and Patrick Dempsey and reveals how mastering slight of hand, misdirection, and improvisation has shaped his work as an actor. These are the unforgettable stories that land at Brendan Patrick's right here. Audio discretion advised. Go watch this one on YouTube because he does do a card trick at the top. - I'm really excited. I've already told you this off mic. I'm so incredibly thrilled to have you 'cause this is unlike any journey that we've ever heard. And we're gonna start in a magical place. So I wanna start with how you've started into this. And I'm putting you on spot to do a little magic right here right now. - Okay, let's have you think of a card. So you have a card in your mind? - Yes. - Okay, perfect look. I have a pack here 'cause I always carry them, right? I literally have a little map that I practice on in front of me, which I'll do now. So I'll shuffle these up. Now you're still thinking of that card, right? You have any mind? - Yes. - Now I think, I think this one, what was the name of the card? - Enola Hoats. - Okay, so it doesn't always work. You said nine of hearts. - Yeah. Watch carefully three, two, one, that's the nine of hearts. - What? - There you go. - Okay, okay, okay, I have some, okay. Brendan, how does one start in magic? Where was the draw? 'Cause I would assume was acting as a youth, was it like, oh, I wanna be an actor when I grew up or is it just performance-based or is it more the manipulation of magic? What would you-- - I can't really, I came to it quite late. So I started doing magic when I was like 21. And most of the people I know who a magician started at the 7 or 8. But I always wanna be an actor, always wanna be an actor. And my dad was, we have to go back a bit, 'cause he was born in 1923 in Belfast. So he was Irish, but he was much older than my mum. So he was 56 when he had me. And he'd grown up in a strange time and he'd left for the troubles all started in Belfast. But he came from a very poor background out there. And he found it very hard to connect with me and the family. And he would, one of the ways this manifested is that he would buy terrible Christmas presents. He wouldn't buy any for myself and my sister, but he'd buy my mum things like wrapped up in bags and like good housekeeping magazine wrapped up. And he always ended up in tears, everybody. You're smiling, but it's awful, right? I've never been tears every year, it'd be awful and we'd all roll our eyes. And he thought nothing of it. And that's just who he was. Anyway, eventually he died from Alzheimer's. But just before the Alzheimer's really kicked in, he suddenly discovered mail order in the year 2000 or something. It was the first time he'd realized you could call up somewhere and get stuff delivered. And he, we suddenly had this Christmas wear for the first time of that he'd brought bought us all these individual presents. And none of us could believe it. The effort that he'd made. And one of the things that he got me was a tiny little book of card tricks and a couple of playing cards things. And I look back on it now and I think maybe he was aware that he was getting out. So I'm just, and I look back on it his way of saying goodbye, I think. And I didn't really look at the book. And then I was in my final year at university in Hull, which is in the North of England doing drama. And I was writing a dissertation on presidential policy and the die-hard trilogy. Right? - Oh. - It was called "Excellent" and "Excellent Lomark". And I finished mine really early and all my friends had two weeks left to write theirs. And they were going right up to the wire, right down to the wire. And I had nothing to do for two weeks 'cause they were all working. So I just got this book out and I just used to practice all day and I got absolutely obsessed with it. And then I would bore people rigid with the tricks for about a year. I went to drama school, did the same with them. Then after drama school I met my first magician friends and they were really good. And I thought, I thought, yeah, I'm pretty good at this. But I was like, oh, this is someone who's been doing it since they were seven. They were really good. And I was like, oh, I've got a practice. And then I got this job on a hallmark mini series for 10 weeks it was filming in India. And I was out there and a lot of the actors went to the bar. I just didn't want to spend the day drinking in the bar when I wasn't on set. So I just practiced all day. I would get up and if I wasn't filming, I'd get in front of a mirror, get my cards out and I'd just practice moves all day if eight hours. And then in the evening I'd go and meet them in for dinner and I'd show them tricks. I'd been learning that day or that week. And I did that for 10 weeks, all sorts of different magic. And then when I came back and met the magicians again who I've met before going, I was better technically than they were. Like Slav Handwise, I'd had a knack for that. But I couldn't perform it at all. I was so behind on the performing of it. It was just that if I could do the technical aspect and then my friend called Noel Qualter, who's over here, he's known as the iPad magician and he also creates some tricks, he's very into technology. He said, you should be doing this professionally. If you get yourself a website, I'll give you all my drinks. Do you have this word, "drugs"? - Drugs. No, what is that like all your weight lists that people he can't take, essentially? - No. - Drugs is like, I think it comes from old pirate beer or something, but the drugs is what's left. - Okay. - Once you've had the beer. It's the end of the horrible stuff, congealed stuff, the drugs that nobody wants. So he was like, I don't know, I'll give you my drugs. And I was like, great. So I did all these jobs that were like, going to do magic in a pub that was like 40 miles away and I had to get a train there and then I didn't have a car set to walk across a field for an hour to get there and things like that, loads of gigs like that. And I just kept doing it like that, alongside my acting. And it's just, - That was your side job, essentially, right? - And it still is, yeah. - Okay, so since this is an acting podcast, I'm gonna go to so many places, Brendan. But let's go first to what you said about the technical versus the performance because you went to conservatory, you were working with your body, you were working with performance. What was the gap in performance for magic that you didn't get? It's plain to me that. - There's no script, there is a script. Right, there is a script. You can make a script, but with magic, I didn't really enjoy that so much. What I liked is that you're doing the magic for it's like us having a conversation 'cause I was only doing close-up, so I would go to parties and interrupt people's drinks and say hi, I'm the magician and then I'd show them a trick to try to win them back. But I found that a lot of the magicians who I watched back then who would do that work, they would have a script and they found it very hard to be interrupted. So, I'm aware that I'm talking all the time and you're not interrupting me, which please interrupt me. I don't mean that is a sort of please don't interrupt me. But if they were interrupted, it would throw them off the trick because they had their script. So it'd be like if you were doing a play and a heckler starts heckling you. - Yeah. - You cannot, how do you respond as an actor? 'Cause you're still in the part what you do. It's a stand-up, you can stand a comedian. Yeah, you can respond. It ruins your bit that you're doing, but you can respond. And for me, I became like I wanted to get good at that bit because my other acting was learning lines and all of that stuff and I wanted it to be a bit more free-flowing and when I'm doing it, I always wanted to feel like it's a conversation that's happening and if someone says something, I'll immediately react to it and the trick might go a different way or something and it'll come back and it's a bit chaotic but it's very much like improvisation, I think. But for me, it is anyway. - That's what I was going to really say. I am Emmy Iquacar, who's also a friend of the pod. He was on the podcast as well. His wife for his birthday last year had, they called him a mentalist. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - What's the difference between a mentalist and a magician? So he was coming up in between, because they wanted to make sure that the party would go smoothly with a lot of different people coming. So they had this guy come and he would come up in the middle of conversation and do a lot of digital tricks. He was doing tricks on his phone with counting. He was doing tricks, mental tricks. He was doing stuff with the wallet, blowing us away. My daughter, still to this day, talks about it, and was like, how do I start training to be the mentalist? But what is the difference then between the mentalist and you're calling up close magic? So a mentalist is really, it's more mind-reaching things or you're dealing with thoughts or you're pretending that you're influencing someone. I do a little bit of that, but mine is more slight of hand magic. So it's more based on misdirection. You're doing the slight of hand while you're misdirecting people. And it's more about, I think the big difference between a mentalist and a magician is that the mentalist, the result of it is always wow, that mentalist. Whereas with magic sometimes, it doesn't end up being about me. It ends up being about us. - Yes. - So you remember the astonishment of it rather than the amazement that this person can do this. So I think it's a power dynamic and I'm not saying either a better, but I think that's the difference really. Also over here, a mentalist means a kind of crazy person. So it does seem, same here. - Oh, same here. So sometimes if someone asks me what's the difference between a magician and a mentalist to say, "I'm a magician, you're a mentalist." - That works great. That works great. But as far, the reason why I ask that is 'cause for me, what acting is, it is that dance, like you said, between two people and then this astonishment, right? This exchange in the ethers. So going to Conservatory, did that prepare you for going out into the world and getting jobs as an actor and then also starting to secure jobs as a magician? What, how did school, 'cause a lot of people that come on as a podcast, we get to hear all kinds of stories where Conservatory will prepare you for stripping down ego, right? And building character. But then once you get out in the real world of getting a job, especially here in America, it's not, they haven't prepared you as well. To get the job, once you have the job, sure. How to do the job for eight to 10 weeks? Absolutely no problem. But it doesn't really prepare you for the stepping stones of getting, is it the same? Did you experience the same or were you really prepared at an agent grabby right out? You got a hallmark series right away. Was that right after school? I went, I did a nine month run in the West End here at the play called Journey's End. That was sort of my first job. And then that was my second job, the hallmark thing. But I was working in a call center between it when they got the call about that. You're going to India, or on Monday, that kind of thing. Drama school, does it prepare you? Yeah, I think you're right, you're right. It does prepare you in, it gives you a lot of different tools that you can use when you're working. But what you do for the rest of the time, what is your percentage of your life is not working? If I percent of your life is auditioning, right? Or having this exchange and getting people, I don't want to say tricking them, but getting them to be like, you've got something. Which is why I think magic gives you that edge. And I'm curious if it gave you that edge when you first started audition. I don't know, I don't know. I'm not sure. I so believe there's so much of it, it's about luck that I just don't know. I find that drama school, one of the problems with drama school is it doesn't teach you things that might actually enable you to live as an actor. Have something else to do that you can do, hopefully creatively, which is why I went poor. But even if you've got something that you love, if you're a gardener or whatever, that's great. But something you can do that you like that will get you through those the times when you're not working, because we're all going to be there. And also, I just think it should teach you things like how to handle your money and things like that. I have a friend of mine was a teacher at UCLA for acting their Brian Parsons. He had a thing, because when you're a drama school, we're under act training, you're like, yeah. Okay, what am I going to do? I'm going to do, I think I'll do a play. I don't want to do too much TV, but I'll probably do maybe, I don't want to do commercials at all. Maybe I'll probably do a play and then a couple of films. Do it, really? And his question was, okay, let's look at this, okay. So you're going to do a play. How long does it play? Six months, okay. And you're going to get paid how much per week? $500 per week, okay. And then you're going to do what? Then I'm going to do a film, okay, some, right. But it's unlikely you're going to get a big part in a film, just then. So you're going to be doing like a couple of weeks on a film and it will pay you, it's probably independent, so I'll pay you this. So in the first year, you're earning $16,000. Well, it's like, no, you can't live on that. I guess, but he seemed to be the only teacher who was like, it's great to be optimistic. But he would go, but look at what you're saying. Because that's not survival. And that only leads to immense disappointment. - I think suit, yeah. And I think I call it the staircase analogy. You can go up a stair, a season, maybe a year, what's your goal? And then you start at the bottom. I've only heard a couple of stories where it's like, I came out of drama school. And now I'm in the biggest global movie. And I never have to audition again, right? Even in the conservatory, they're not even technically teaching you how to audition. So I want to hear that first couple of auditions that obviously went so well. So the first one being a play that you came out, do you even remember the first ones and then the hallmark? Did you feel like you had that skill set of understanding how to audition? Back on the thing, yeah, I guess it was a good audition. I guess I did well in the audition. It's someone else and someone else could have got it. And I still look at my auditions now and go, I don't know. I remember doing, doing the down to, I was in Downton Abbey for over seven episodes over the six seasons. Now I remember that audition thinking. - That's when I was gonna go straight to that one, but I wanted to see if we peppered in anything before. But favorite show, my favorite. - Oh, good. So I thought they hated me in that audition. - Okay, tell us, we want to hear the whole audition 'cause it's fun. So when, 'cause also you joined, what season was it that you joined in? - I was in the first season. - Yeah. - You have to say it's the first season, the only one episode of that time. And then I came back in four and then I popped in again. - It's six, right? So season one, episode three. That's what I was trying to remember. Season one, episode three. And then so we don't, you don't know what this show is yet. You're not obsessed with it like I am. - No, but nobody is. And nobody is. - Nobody is. - It's just a job for everyone. - Yeah, so when you get, yeah. If you can walk us through that audition, if whatever you remember, and I would love to know why you thought they hated you. - Bye. Little hint to the period. I think I went full Krovat or something. Red Krovat, I think I had that I borrowed from my wife. And so I went in and did the audition and I'd done a lot of work on it. And tell me what the work is that you did because everybody that's listening to this always has picking up some tool. So especially you coming out of conservatory, it had been a bit of time since you had been in conservatory when you did Dunton, Abby. - It's so weird looking back on it because the stuff I was doing then to prepare for it, I'd never, I wouldn't do now. - I don't want to hear it. - Yeah, what did you do then? - But I remember those auditions I used to get there ridiculously early, like an hour early. And then I'd go and have a coffee round the corner and keep reading the script and marking it, and marking it with things that I'd never look at again. - Yeah. - And I went in and I thought from word go, the casting was going badly. I didn't think they liked me very much. And then I did the scene. I didn't think they liked it very much. And at the end, I could not wait to get out of the room 'cause I thought they hate me. This is just awful. And then as I went out, they go, oh, can you ride a horse? I was like, I'm not gonna get this anyway. So, yeah, yeah, I can, yeah. And that was the end. I couldn't ride a horse. And then the next day, I called my agent like that was dreadful, sorry about that. And the next day, they called and said, hell, they want you to do it. I was like, what? It was quite a good lesson if I'd now look back on it as a good lesson of you just don't know. - You don't know, but I also think after doing this for a very long time, I think it's the ones, I was starting to put my finger on a little bit more. You know the ones when you go and you're like, I nailed that, I nailed that, I did everything I wanted. You executed a plan. It was not really fun to watch somebody do their plan. And whenever I've done a horrible audition, whenever I've watched other people be like, oh, I bombed it because why I didn't do my plan. Something derailed me, I didn't do what I wanted to do. that as an audience member, as a casting director, We're watching you discover something. We're watching you not do the plan. We're watching you, quote unquote, do a bad audition, what you think might be a bad audition. And I think that's what's interesting to watch. So any time that I've thought that I've bombed an audition, those are the ones I get. The ones that I think that, oh, I got it. So now after doing this for long enough, whenever it's the perfect audition, I'm like, I'm definitely not getting that. Or when I'm trying to chase it, right? When I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do one more take. This is it, this is it. Or I'm gonna do this one moment here. I'm gonna finesse it. We don't get those parts. I don't think. And when you throw it down once or twice, you discover something, you drop a line, you make a mistake. Those are the ones that they're like, no, we really liked what you did here. And you're like, you did? How is that? So that's where I started to claim my arenos with my auditions. I won't do more than two or three takes five max. Because then I'm like, I'm chasing, I'm trying something that's not fitting versus the one or two, I tape rehearsals now, 'cause it's sometimes the rehearsal that I send, 'cause we're still trying to figure it out, right? - Miles Davies had a thing where he's too, quite into jazz. Miles Davies, when he had his band sometimes, they just practice and practice. And then on the night, they just do it perfectly. And he would always say to them, "No, I'm not paying you to play it perfectly. I'm paying you to rehearse on the stage." - Yes. - I'm paying you to do what we did in the rehearsal on the stage. And I think that a lot of his sort of wisdom taps into a lot of acting and instinct stuff. - That's why I was so curious to interview you, because to me, like you said, magic is finding that improvisation. So I feel like that threads itself to what you're trying to do by being on screen. The addition to me feels almost like a magic trick. Does it not? Have you ever related those things together? - Yeah, but if you do a gig where you do the magic trick, you leave like a hero. - Before but 200 people for 90 minutes, everyone's like, "Yeah, see you later, bye." Oh, that was brilliant. - You don't get that in audition. Unless you don't get the part, then do you get it? - Then yeah, that's true. - It's like a magic trick. I mean, I just find it difficult to put any rhyme or reason to any time I get something or don't get something. I do have a system that I use, which I think I emailed you about, which is my same teacher, Brian Parsons, recommended my Joseph Hacker called auditioning for the camera. And when I went out to have six weeks or something, a long time ago and did all the pilot season stuff, and I hang out with the author, Joe Hacker, who taught there and went to a few of his classes and just sat on the back. But his thing was very simple. - What is it? - And this book is amazing. - And I'll put the link, I'll put the link in for the show notes for everyone that's listening to this. - Yeah, please do, 'cause I never talked about this book, 'cause I felt like I was the only actor in London who knew it. I was like, "I'm not telling anyone about this," but that was like 15 years ago. But the idea was that there were three basic things, which is he had this thing called a 20 year friend, which is that everyone in that audition room, you have to imagine that they've known you for 20 years. Not that you've known them for 20 years, 'cause that's too difficult. But they've known you for 20 years. So you wanna, they're gonna see the thing that your friends like about you, hopefully. So that was the first year, 20 year friend. Another thing was play the page number, which I thought was genius. If you take a film's 110 pages, 120 pages, sometimes you won't get the whole thing, and sometimes you will get the whole thing, but you just do not have time to read it. If your scene is on page 95, you better dial it up, right? Even if it's not, whatever is happening, you know the stakes are much higher then. So that was, that I thought was brilliant. - Yes, agree. But what happens when you get the pages, where they take the page number off, which is what they often do, right? And then his third one was, when you enter the room, comment on the reality of the moment with humor, which was the hardest one to do until I did loads of improvisation, then that was the easiest one. But that's really good, 'cause that just breaks the ice. Everyone feels relaxed. - So, give me an example, 'cause now we don't go in the room anymore, but I wanna hear an example of you figuring out how to break the ice or comment on what. So I'm not thinking about what it was. The first thing I'm thinking about, if I walk into this room, the first thing I'm gonna talk about is those plants. - Exactly, exactly. - So I'm gonna be like, "Oh my God, you've got so many cactuses. "I've never seen so many cactuses, "and I'm not very good with plants." Then we get on, then we're just going, "I'm not like thinking about it. "It has to be a spontaneous thing of the room." If you plan it, like you were saying, if you execute your plan, and it's nothing, but it has to be commenting on the reality of the moment with humor. Now, I'm not saying it's funny, but it's with your share. - It's a bit like the magic. You're sharing something about the space. - Yeah, so then that's one way, I think, to handle it when we used to go in the room. Are you going back into the room for auditions right now? For rivals, was that a self-tape? - The rivals was in the room. - It was? - It was. They still go on. What they tend to do now is most recalls are in the room. - Yes, mostly. - Or, "Bronna Zoom with the director." But the longer you do it, the less likely they are to need to recall you in a room. You know what it's like. You've been doing it the same, but how long have you been doing it for? - 25. - Were you a kid actor? - No, I've been doing professionally since 2004. So was that 22 years. - That's the same as me. So yeah, after that amount of time, I think there's a little bit of a change. Sometimes you still have to jump through the hoops, obviously. But then sometimes it's a bit easier that they will sometimes, I'm certainly here. They'll give you the after one tape sometimes. - Sometimes they will. So good, three times asking. I love these three tips, but now in the self-tape in the world, rivals, I know you went into the room, but how are you executing? You can definitely do the page count, right? You can look at your pages. You can look at your side. - I've got stuff for this too. Yeah, okay. - So when the pandemic hit, right? And this is where it's come from the magic world. So when the pandemic hit, all the acting jobs obviously dried up, but also all the magic jobs dried up, 'cause no event spaces were open, so we couldn't go to any event spaces. And after three weeks, everyone started doing Zoom shows. And it was so weird. I didn't particularly enjoy them because there's not so much interaction. But what came out of it is this whole wealth of tricks, literature, loads of books written about it, of tricks that only worked on Zoom. You could not do the trick live, right? You could only do it when the camera was locked off on a Zoom, and they would still amaze people, and sometimes they would be stronger than anything you could do in real life. If I try and get when I'm booking people, I have a lot of Zooms to talk to clients and things, and that's very good to just do a trick for them that is impossible. So I tried to take that back to the self tapes afterwards, which was like, okay, so those magic Zoom shows were taking advantage of you have to be on Zoom, which is what magicians had always been so good at doing is finding the weakness and then exploiting it. There are weaknesses on self tapes that you can exploit. Now, I'm not saying you should do all of them, but there are things like, if you're in a rush, you don't have to learn the lines, right? I know it would be great to learn the lines, you can control the eye line. So you put those lines up right where the eye line is, and you're fine. And remember that that's what they do on sets. There's all these stories about actors like sticking the someone's lines on their forehead with a piece of gaffer tape, right? So it's not, and Brando in Godfather, he's reading them off people, and you've seen all those photos for the lines all over all the other actors, and he's reading them. So it was good enough for him, okay? But it shouldn't be something that we all go, no, it's not for me. This is the greatest act of all time. He was doing that, there's gotta be a reason why. So let's have a look into that. So that's one thing, I tend to learn the lines now and have a board just in case. You can control the lighting, which you cannot do in a room. Sometimes what will happen in a room is the casting director will say, okay, and do the lines to me. But if you've done a lot of filming, you know the eye lines off. - Yes. - And it does take a lot of, it takes a lot of gumption to, it's hard in an audition when you want to please, and all of that stuff. It's hard when the cast director says, talk to me. It's very hard to then go and just do the lines there, right? You can, the trick round it is to say, ask, look at the director and say, where's a good eye line if you do it in the room? But, so you control the eye line, you can also control the angles and things like that. So for example, most auditions you will shoot like this in the middle, they'll shoot you there, right? But a hoe, I can put myself here, which is much more like how it's-- - It's cinematic. - Exactly though. I call it Rules of Thirds, the only people that sit dead center on television and film are newscasters. Look at the lights. - Yeah, that's a really good example. - So, the Rules of Thirds being angles, it just inherently feels more cinematic. Also, if I'm talking to this person, I think that is right for when they would cut round to the other side. You wouldn't do it like that, though, because that's crossing the lens. So you'd have to do it like this. So little things like that or things like, another thing that Joe Hacker had in his book, which I'd advise anyone to do on a self-take, if you cannot, at all do it, is enter the scene at the beginning, and if you can leave. This sounds like just elementary stuff, but it makes such a difference. If the audition begins, right? And then you come up and you're just there. That's quite a shock. But if it begins like this, blank wall, they've got to watch it now. Yeah. They've got to watch it. So they're already watching it. You come in whatever it is. It's much more interesting. It's so much better. And then what the other tip is that at the end of the scene, if you've failed at the objective, or whatever, and you go out the same way you came in, but if you've succeeded or you've changed, the characters change, you go in health the other way. It's just very subtle. Just in case they get there, which they are likely to get there. But if you kind of at all do it, enter. So that's something you can do, on a self take that you can't do in the room, because sometimes they'll go, "Oh, okay, I'll just follow you." Then you get this awful thing. You know it's going to look dreadful. So things like that you don't have enough. Go ahead, keep going, keep going. No, I was going to ask. If you want to stand up, but you don't want to keep moving the tripod up and down, you just go on your knees. Things like that. You can move the chair thing. Things like that are just like, without any socks on or shoes on, or you can just throw a shirt on, or you can just. Yeah, no pants. Sure, if that's what you want. So I think that's it. Do you enjoy self taping more so than going in the room? Are you one of those actors? I do quite like it. I love it. Even just what you just said, the control of framing for story. This made framing choices based on the story. If the character is able to overcome their objection, the object. or what did you say? Words a little bit this morning. If they are able to. If there's a shift in the scene essentially, right? If they succeed, it's something to be good at. If they succeed, yes. And the other way, if I don't. Then they go the other way. That story related, right? Or if they don't, then they go back out the same way they came in. Wonderful. I think a lot of actors, again, even if your conservatory trained, it's character development that you're mostly focusing on. And a director coming in to help you. I think in the self taping world, we're really conditioning ourselves as actors to think more like directors and take care of the story. Story first, and then how can we frame it? To tell the story, I just feel so empowered by that. Now that if I do go in the room for some callbacks or anything, very rarely in America are you going in the room. And the last six years, I can say, and less than a dozen times of going in the room. Even chemistry tests, everything is over this. But if you do go in now, after having this practice for six years or longer, I've been taping since 2008, 2009. When you go in, you can be like, no, I would like you to do this. I would like. casting directors don't know why they're impacted by this rules of thirds moment. That's not their job. Their job is just to know that made me feel. This feels right for the project. I'm going to bring it forth. Directing them to help you curate the story. It just starts a different dialogue in the room. And it takes out that, can I do this right for you? Moments? That a lot of people pleasing actors. We all have like, what do you want? I'm going to show you. I really enjoy that. And I love hearing when other actors have these. I know you said they're simple, but they're not. You would be surprised at how many actors still sit dead center that don't enter or exit. We don't get to see other people audition very often. So that's why I think this podcast is wonderful as we get to talk to people and be like, how are you doing it? And then hearing you say, oh yeah, I do it like this. It gives permission. Just a different type of education. You said that you got some of these jobs though. You think you got some of them from your magic. Which two jobs was this? I did an episode of this sitcom that became quite big over here called Gavin and Stacey. And I know that I got that because I'd worked with James Corden who was a big host out there, right? Yes, and he wrote me apart in that as a sort of surly magician. So I did that. And then I recently actually a show called Grace. I don't know if you get that there. Do you get it on PBS or something? It's like a detective job. I think we did on PBS. That was a friend of mine had gone in for it. And didn't think he was right for it. And he said, you should tell your agent about this. It's a crew PA who used to be a magician. And I was like, all right, I'm all over that. Because also my specialization in Sly of Hand is card cheating technique. That's the thing I'm more interested in than anything else. So I was like, okay. So I got the audition. And I did think I am going to put it all on the table. So I was like, I brought a close up. This is a close-up pad that I made, right? I have with me all the time and I shuffle cards on it. So I was like, I brought that in. I put a table. I borrowed a table. I was like, put the camera here, blah, blah, blah. I showed them loads of stuff. And then we did the scene. And I did think, I just can't. I did think after that. I thought it wasn't like I nailed it. But I thought, I think there's something wrong if I don't get that part. Because I was like, I sort of, it wasn't that I thought, I've nailed it. I've got it. I deserve it. Anything like that. But I was like, if I don't get it, I think I'll be okay. Because something completely out of my control has gone on. Yes. I knew from an acting point of view, knowing so many actors, nobody is going to be able to do the gambling slide of hand as well as me. No. Because I, because I, how much work I put into it. I know because I know some of the best slide of hand guys in the country. I'm like, nobody's going to be able to do that. So already that's given me an extra. So as long as I don't mess up the acting too much, it should be okay. I love your confidence and the magic side of this. What? And I love that you immediately are self-deprecating when it comes to the acting side. Do you feel that there's been a job where no, I find that interesting. I think that's it. I find that interesting that you said that. Yeah. Because to me, you're a wonderful actor. I just spent hours just watching you in the last few days. And it's funny to me that people always say, oh, I feel like I'm just faking it. What do you think that has there been a job that's been like, no, I'm a really great actor. And I can do this. Is it more the audition that you feel like, I don't fucking know. And you're just, where do you think mentally? No, I don't think I ever, I don't think I ever do a job where I think I'm a great actor. I don't think I ever thought that. I think the process or not, I think, and if I've been. I'd be doing an advert once. I never come off it. I think it's a bit like when you were saying about I've executed my plan. Yes. If you've executed your plan, it probably wasn't great. But I do remember coming off one set way. It was an advert. We did this scene and it was, it was so weak. It was John Madden was directing this advert. And he directed Shakespeare in love. He was seen in a bar. It was me and this girl. And we did this scene. And in between it, we were doing so many takes. And in between he was just shouting. More, Brandon, more! And I remember at the end of that day, the last hour of takes I felt like I was drunk. I felt like I'd been drinking all day and I just felt great. And I didn't feel like, oh, I did some great acting or anything like that. But that was the only time I've ever gone. Oh my God, I feel just so good. Yeah. That elation feeling. And that's why I think it's that. Yeah, and it's a shame it only happened in an advert. You're trying to chase that. I think it's repetition. That's what I'm going to put it on. You just told me about the hours of repetition that you've done with magic hours and hours. You've also done hours between conservatory and being on set. But we don't get to control when we get to do that, right? You're on a job when it's just you and somebody else and you're getting to work it and play and work it. And it's the play. I feel like that play is so gratifying that I don't give a shit and who sees it or what critics like it or don't like it. And I find that I'm always driving for that performance edge where I'm like, I want to be exhausted, like, gleefully exhausted after a good day of work, where I feel like there's some connection in the eaters that happened and we discovered something. But that might happen once every five years. Yeah. Once every, like, great writing, a great experience, time to play, great direction, somebody who's a yes and director. versus a critical director. So I feel so much of that just, it's outside of ourselves, whereas the magic is so controlled within what you're able to produce. I don't know, I just find it interesting. I just think you're a wonderful actor, so it's always. Thank you, that's right. Thank you. I just want to take a quick break to talk to you about guided practice. Where are you in your practice? We have to practice every day. We get incrementally better. There's a great book, "Atomic Habits" that talks about the 1%, getting 1% better every single day. But you don't know what you don't know. That's why we have self-tape may. You can always jump into that class to see how other people audition, how other people handle the exact same set of sides, guided practice. So what we do is community leaders, and I love to try to myself, we have started the Bridge for Actors. In the Bridge for Actors, we have a membership track, a live component, where you get to show up for classes for tech, character development, script analysis, two self-tape classes, one, just self-tapes, and one is live chemistry zooms. You need to be in practice constantly. So when you get an audition, you don't put all the pressure that you have on that. You know how to work it because you've been riding your bike with somebody next to you saying, "Break a little bit faster here. Turn here." This is a great idea. Let's try this. Guided practice is also not torturous. It should not be little you. It should not take your creativity and make you feel small. Guided practice should allow your creativity to soar. Your authentic version of who you are is what needs to be brought to the table. And sometimes the best acting is just that, getting to the basis of who you are. And sometimes we need techniques and tools to do that. So if you're in search of guided practice, look here in the show notes the practice track is a live membership ongoing guided practice. The Bridge for Actors are 12 courses designed to help you to take you from editing your tapes into getting on set. So if you'd like to work at your own pace, there is the Bridge for Actors, an online 12 course program to take you from being a student acting, a student acting, to a working actor. Let's get back to the show. Okay, I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions if you're down for this. Okay. Favorite actor you worked with? I got Tony Collette, maybe. Okay. And the experience, what did you learn from watching, just getting to sit and just what a beast. She was so nice and we got on really well and had a good lunch. She was really good and she could switch it on and off. Just used to go and watch the monitor if I wasn't in the scene with her. It was just really interesting. I don't know, it was just really interesting. I really liked her and I liked her acting and I liked that I could find it interesting when I sat across from her and I could find it really interesting when I was watching on the monitor. And it also taught me that there were no mistakes. Everything I was watching her doing was really interesting. Even if there were things that as an actor you might think I've made a mistake. I was watching her going, "There are no mistakes. You just keep going." She would just not stop, keep going. And that was a good lesson, I think. Okay, this is just a personal question because she is a tent pole for me, for acting. For watching her, getting to work with her and then watching her behind monitor. Is she somebody that is shifting choices constantly? Yeah, it's always different. It was always different. It's interesting because I worked with Maggie Smith a little bit and I got to hang out with her a lot during the day. And it was really interesting with her because she didn't change it very much. It was like she had just zeroed in on exactly how to do it. And it was still alive every time but it wasn't. She didn't change it a great deal but it was on the button every time. And it was brilliant and it was full of life. Tony would just change it all the time. It felt alive in a different way. It was interesting. Those two different ways of approaching it. Most memorable first day experience on set. Which project? I did a, might do a lot of guest bits. Yeah. And I did one in Italy which I was quite nervous about. It was just the end of pandemic. And I was quite nervous and I'd been isolated in my hotel room for two weeks and I got to set. And I had, I think I had two lines in this scene. And it was with Patrick Dempsey was in it, right? I watched in Grace Natty. It was a big fan and I'd said hello to him that morning said, oh, hello. And I really liked it because I loved what he did in Grace Natty because it's so. What's so interesting about that is it's such an alpha male part that then it has this real center of. He might cry at any moment. You just want to take care of him. Yeah, that's something that's so hard and also you don't often see it. That, that sort of thing. But I was sat in the makeup chair. I was feeling really nervous. I hadn't slept much the night before because his first day on set is always nervous. Yeah. And he came up behind me and he put his hat on my shoulder and said, hey, hey, Brandon. Hey, feel it. And I was like, I'm all right. The nervous didn't sleep very well. And he was like, oh, me neither. My first day today. I never sleep well before. And do you want a coffee? And I was like, yes, please. I said, okay, guess what your coffee brings it over. He says, I'll see you on set. Got no to worry about. I think that was so nice. That I'd never had that. I'd never had a lead actor come up. I've had nothing to do in this scene, but he was just so welcoming. It was that understanding that we were both starting on the same day. We'd both not slept well the night before because we both were worried about it. It was like, that was a really nice. It was so lovely. And also everybody, like your parts, the hardest, any five and under, a five and under roles are the hardest, right? You're waiting for somebody. It's not, you're not driving the scene. You just get to contribute. You have to contribute in the right timing. Yeah, I always find those the hardest. But I do feel like when everybody else in the scene is so inviting and welcoming, everybody can relax. Yeah, really what a pro. I want to ask the technical tangible thing of when you get an audition. Now, Brendan, when you've been doing it for so long. And I know every audition is different. Every role is kind of different. But what are your go-to things for the script analysis that you do other than reading the script? Okay, I read it once. The first time I read it, I make, I have a little pencil and I normally just put a little star in something that I think is funny. I'm always trying to make it funny, right? For me, to amuse myself. And then I get a blank document on word and I write the, what I've just considered the most important thing about the scene, which is the location. So I write interior office day. And I put that in bold. I put a line underneath it. And then if it's me who talks first, I just write my first line out. And then I put a dash to indicate someone else is talking. And then I press return, enter, and I write my second line out. I put a dash. And if there's two or three people talking, I put two or three dashes. And I go through that, the entire scene like that. And I try and get it so it's on one or two pages. And I print it out. And then I read that over and over again. Over and over again, out loud in my head. Sometimes I'll go back and read the script. I'm not a great one for. I'm not a great one for sticking to every stage direction on the script, because we all know that when it gets to set, they're not going to take any note of that at all. I'm always reminded of a friend who got a part in a big movie. And he had a tiny bit to do in it with the lead actress, very famous actress. And he knocks on the door, comes in, and goes, "Here's your file." Put some table walks out, close the door. That's the end of the scene, and then it's back on her or whatever. So he prepared for it by, he went round and he found every door he could to open and try this. So he opened 100 doors in the week before, like all around his house. Other people's house, coffee shops on the right, getting used to open a door. So he was like, "Yeah, I'm prepared." They got there on the day, and it was an open plan office. And that is the reality of it. You got to make the theme work. So if you get hooked into something too much, so I tend to read one. So I've got some ideas of what the shape of the scene, then all I'm looking at is my lines. And I'm looking at when they say something. And I've already got a good idea of what they're saying. Obviously, I don't know what the lines are. But you know the gist, if someone's got a little three line speech. I don't know what they're saying from just reading it once. So that means that when I do the self-tape with my wife, and she's reading out the lines, I am always listening so much. So that's the way you activate your listening is more or less taking, removing their lines, you actually really have to listen for it, because you're just focusing on lines. Yeah, it's a little bit of a. It's a great trick. I mean, you're responding to exactly what they said, but you get yours in as much as possible, hopefully learn them. But otherwise you've still got, you're going to stick that up anyway. So you've got it just in case. And I take it in all editions as well. I will take that piece of paper in and that will be my script. I don't read off the script in the room. I love this trick. So if you have a scene and it's five pages, you can put all of your lines on one. Yep. in massive type as well. And you can space it out however you like if you want us. separate the thoughts or whatever whatever the way you were you can space it out you put it in the middle or you put it into two columns if you like whatever you want and you can have it here so if I have it there is notebook if I have it there right if you have the script like this you move in the page it's great but look if I put that there I can absolutely I can see every single line just by looking down and also it's the slight sheet of it is that the camera reads that if I look down I'm thinking about something so already you're getting something free yeah I can't remember the line then you say it but that actually reads as he doesn't know what to say he's thinking about it rather than which is the whole thing with Brando and the lines written on people was that's what he was doing was trying to find it each time and that's interesting to watch you trying to find it or discover it's just talk about a slide of hand that is the simplest way I think to articulate how great acting stands apart from mediocre stands apart from just acting it's a performance it's beautiful dance and performance I love it okay that's my but that's my tip in the room is having on a piece of paper okay what's the one thing you've done that you wish more people would have seen I did a show called Mr Sloan with Mr with Nick Frost in 20 I was out on pilot season and pilot seems and was a complete washout and then I got Mr Sloan as soon as I got back to to London and it was Nick Frost who was one of my heroes Peter Serif in a bit I don't know if you know but very funny comedian Olivia Colm was in it a feeling love a bond it was back in 2013 it was absolutely brilliant it only played on the sky Atlantic here and it was directed by Bob Widey who directed all of Kerberin to use him was written by him and directed by him and it was set in a little town outside London and it was about Nick Frost it began with him trying to kill himself because his wife had left him it was a comedy and then it was like six episodes and you just discovered that he has the worst friends imaginable who met up with the pub every day and I was him and be Serif in a bit who are his best friends and I was a complete asshole in it and I was so fun we had such a good time I think it's probably the best work I've ever done and no one has ever seen it so I would say that and I don't know what happened to it because we could have done more I've heard from Nick we could have done more but the the commissioner changed at the last minute before they decided on season two and he scrapped all the old projects and it just went and you can't even really watch it you can only watch it on sky here you can't really watch it anywhere else oh that's a shame but you know what I'm really grateful to end in a place look I trust you Brendan this is fun where you're like that was my fucking best work so you do know when it hits and when it's great you absolutely you're such a you're so fun to watch and you have such great you do have incredible comedic timing so I'm I just can't wait to see what you do next is rivals season two are you guys doing a season two is that what's happening season two is playing at the moment the first six episodes and then the second six episodes of season two come out in November that's what it is just been just being green lip season three so that starts shooting next year okay and then where can everybody follow along with you are you on Instagram and then Instagram Brendan at oh sorry at Brendan underscore Patrick's follow along I'm not I I love to hear from you whoever you are and then magic wise you can book me yeah I think you're unlikely to book me in the states book working magic.co.uk London the London magician if you're in London and you need a magician that's where to go you're an absolute delight what a job I'm so grateful that you took the call I want to talk to him so thank you I was so flattered you even asked so thank you very much illiterina I've really enjoyed this a lot of stuff I can run go check out Brendan doing his magic on his Instagram page online as well you can check him out in rivals down to Navi gentlemen Jack outlander doctor who bad education the ghost writer so much more to you the listener I love hearing from who you want to hear from in the hot seat you can always slide into the DMs give me suggestions or head over to a Alisha at hello at alisha oxy.com for guest suggestions and I'm here for you coaching cheerleading consulting head over to alisha oxy.com for more information and slaytenberg does start this week on Thursday so if you want to jump in the sides are still available you can still submit your first tape or you can join along and audit so look here in the show notes for more information (gentle music)