Speaker 1all right all right all right it's almost that time of year the time when I set the foundation for supreme and total dominance at my fantasy football draft how can I be so confident because I used the ultimate draft kit from the fantasy footballers man it updates all offseason so I never worry about using old busted information consistency charts auction values full projections oh baby this thing's got it all you want to keep it 100 for your draft head to ultimatedraftkit.com and get your copy today
Speaker 2so welcome to the fantasy footballers podcast with your hosts andy holloway jason moore and mike right
Speaker 3oh welcome in so monday august 17th the fantasy footballers podcast jason moore is here I'm andy holloway and guess what what he's back the mucus king returns mike the fantasy hitman returns to the studio no bear extraordinaire in my chair no we have the full crew back and it is a huge week breakouts busts values sleepers 10 tips and tricks episode mock draft mayhem and um too many injuries to talk about yeah I'm I'm so this was like listen this was
Speaker 4a this is a regular week in season amount of injuries to our guys every year we I've lived
Speaker 3in Arizona my whole life and every year the summer surprises me fresh sure and how in how much of an inferno it is how hot it is how horrible it is I every year I'm like oh my gosh yeah . And the same thing happens with injuries in fantasy football because we have an off season of anticipation and excitement and joy and uh the worst part is it we have like done work to try to decide on how something's going to happen and we never get to see for some players it's
Speaker 5unbelievable we have a board that has our my guys or maybe our mvps or our you know we've got breakouts today and it's like we've got all these players we're looking for and waiting and then all of a sudden we have a board that has our my guys or maybe our mvps or our you know we've got breakouts today and it's like we've got all these players we're looking for and waiting and then all of a sudden we have a board that has our my guys or maybe our mvps or our you know we've got breakouts today and it's like we've got all these players we're looking for and waiting and then all of a sudden behind the scenes we're excited to talk to you about so i got my groin yeah my offensive lineman my toe i don't have a knee anymore this this game is brutal i don't know
Speaker 3if you guys know this football is a rough and tumble physical game um but we must go on without knowing how some of these situations will turn out and this is why you're like we've had a little bit like on the timeline on the timeline like i i'll say this now like i really wanted to make alec pierce and my guy for most of the offseason i did can't really do that right now i can't go say invest on the draft pick and start them i don't know when he's gonna play maybe it'll be week one i i don't know but um those are coming next week as well the my guy picks your drafts to get started ours is on labor day so hopefully you've pushed yours back as far as you can because you this is why we say draft is close
Speaker 5to kickoff as possible i think that's important because maybe people don't realize that kickoff is a week later this year than it usually is so instead of doing it like if you're if your league always does the second weekend in august i guess you would be done but you know whatever if if you time it that way you should push it later and we always say every year like push your draft as late as possible towards kickoff i would recommend having it be after the third and final week of in like you leave a draft you're excited and then before the first week before the first fantasy point is scored a guy you got in the second round is like done for the year in the week three of the
Speaker 3preseason that that stinks so push them late yeah push them as far back as you can the exception being if you can get people together for in-person drafting do that whenever you can it's the best um but what else do we got going on we got one week left in our udk for life giveaway we'll give away the ultimate draft kit for the rest of your natural life and we have added the bequeathing capabilities to this gift is if it's in writing if you have an unnatural life it's really up in the air we won't really be able to apply anything it's a little it's it's too great really yeah it's
Speaker 5like it's just us giving something away it's just us giving because i think right now everyone who's preparing for drafts they're they're getting the ultimate draft kit anyways it's like we're just also including the fact that you might get it forever for always yep and maybe a signed jamar
Speaker 3jersey as well ultimate draft kit.com winners will be selected during our live stream maybe next monday it's for sure happening yeah it's definitely happening but maybe for each individual right only maybe you will be the one to get it not every person is gonna get it uh that would be a bad business move what it sounded like for a moment if we gave everybody a free udk forever um but if you've purchased it already if you're an ultimate foot clan member you're automatically entered to win the community is over at join the foot.com you can follow us on instagram instagram.com slash fantasy footballers we had another just the tips episode hit youtube youtube.com slash the fantasy footballers this past weekend our quick question of the day is uh it comes in what part of doing a fantasy football podcast is something that most people don't know about maybe it's a part of the daily weekly process what is something most people don't
Speaker 4know about uh let's see i mean there's there's definitely a few things the i guess the one i would say is what has really changed is the the the the the ebbs and flows of the calendar like when we weren't in it and our fantasy football was still life we you know i was all in when you weren't in when i was not yeah when we were doing the podcast but like when you hit june it was like you could really feel it inside of like oh baby football's coming back really never leaves for us oh so you you know that i find that that i don't get the same christmas forever yeah i don't exactly yeah i don't get the same juice ramp up inside of the natural time i still you're always juiced i love football like i with with the preseason on it was you know it was oh thank thank goodness thank goodness this thing is back because it is it has been too long i love football every day but it's just that that's the the natural ebbs and flows of timing that you you know your circadian rhythm of sports
Speaker 5we don't really have that yeah like like the like a decade ago the idea of hard knocks coming out it's like oh yeah yeah yes i gotta throw that on now it's like i would consume everything i would love i love watching clips i don't know if i'm gonna sit down because i know i'm going to be sitting down watching film all the time but i think the the thing people might not know about doing a fantasy football podcast is like we do we do the show for about an hour and a day how much goes into it prior to that the amount of research and reading and uh google sheets and uh work behind the scenes we try to come on here and sound as relatively dumb as we can but you know we're we are putting in the shocked how much we prepare to sound this dumb
Speaker 3yeah yeah i i always think it's funny like we do we do so many shows over the course of the year and uh how many times we're like doing the dance of like timing recordings so we don't miss news so that we yeah like we're trying to thread the needle of like record where like the work we've done pretty well i feel like except for your like cortland sutton thing in the middle of the show oh that was the best timing ever i think we made a show moment of the year but um but just like when we record and we like know stuff is going to happen we try to dance the recording times around the news which um which is kind of fun but yeah i uh speaking of like christmas year round analogy mike yeah did you see that they're opening a coffee shop down the street oh yeah that is from us yes it's a from where we live it's a christmas it's called christmas cafe it's called christmas cafe it's christmas themed and christmas music and 365 365 what do you think of that is that going to ruin
Speaker 4the magic or is that amazing my initial thought is very optimistic it is i can't wait if you're
Speaker 5telling me at any point in the year i could just check out the christmas cafe just that ac better be oh it's gotta be it's gotta be frigid oh that's a good point if it's not like kind of snowing in there like a little bit if i can't wear snuggly hoodie that's not christmas and then that's not gonna work i can walk there from my house i can't wait it's that close to you yeah i i i'm i'm very hopeful i think they're optimistic i'm optimistic like you're pro christmas cafe i
Speaker 4think that might be too much but i'm excited one way to find out you're willing to find out we'll
Speaker 3figure it out from now people will decide yeah um let's jump into the news
Speaker 2news and notes from around the league
Speaker 5this is uh oh man the people hate the news today this time we're sorry is just all i was gonna say
Speaker 3this is a breakout show but the news is gonna feel like a breakdown we are the messenger nothing well we didn't make it happen the first uh the first piece of news like mike you weren't in here but we came on and got to talk about the preseason game cardinals raiders and jeremiah love and how good he looked i mean it was ridiculous how if you enjoyed it how obvious it was that jeremiah
Speaker 5love will be a dominator at the nfl it was almost like they could have known that before they drafted
Speaker 3him number three overall in the nfl draft well he had to be sure though receiving 14 carries for some reason and the 14th carry resulted in a hip drop ankle sprain looks like a high ankle sprain they just weren't sure you know that's their 13th care we gotta get let's see what happens next they're still hopeful that he will be ready for you
Speaker 5week one against the chargers that that terminology means it's it's high ankle you usually miss three weeks come back he and then you lose production oftentimes you lose production peak production for a couple of weeks obviously if they are bringing him back off of an injury and his first time back is week one they are not going to take this young future centerpiece of their team and say here's 25 touches in your first week
Speaker 3back from injury so much i mean and and connor isn't even back to 11 on 11 which means there's a really good chance tyler algeria is like the starting full-time running back for the cardinals in week one oh by the way their other top four picks are also hurt yeah they lost their guard for the year their second round pick carson beck is hurt they lost their dt in the fourth round
Speaker 5yeah so there's no they don't have a draft cool that's cool man breeze hall suffered a strain groin at practice goodness this one is i mean i i don't know on the groins how often it's due to um physical contact or not but this was um you know this was just on his own he's running a route catches a ball no defender and pulls it and goes down so butterfly stretch thank you mike is what
Speaker 3i've been trying to tell everyone you are the leader of the charge butterfly stretch.com jason moores
Speaker 5jason moores physical therapist there should not be groin injuries guys butterfly stretch how are there so many groin injuries makes no sense uh flat flap all right let's hypothesize
Speaker 3here christian mccaffrey has now missed one full week of practice originally it was uh revealed it
Speaker 5was due to quote tightness uh perhaps the tightness of the wallet of the 49ers genuine um genuine question because mike you have a much better memory than anybody alive okay this was going on it was either last year or the prior year it was one of the last two years where he's going to be fine but that was two years ago that was two years ago yeah okay and it kept seeming like yeah totally going to be fine nothing to see here and so then two years ago it wasn't it there was something to see there and it was very very bad i'm okay it did time up nothing to see it timed up with bijon and gibbs getting money yeah there's
Speaker 4some uh the the bushes are whispering i think the bushes are just hopeful man yeah i do too
Speaker 3josh downs exited with another injury hard fall on his back tried to walk it off was in pain and and had to leave for a few snaps don't know the severity alec pierce not expected to practice this week go draft ashton doolan yeah there's like no white outs right now the good news is if um
Speaker 5you know unlike when mike williams would have those terrible tumbles to the ground and and injure himself which is what josh downs did not a lot of weight on him uh fell on that's
Speaker 3true light is by himself um i'm gonna hit the button for this one but uh saints head coach kellen moore said the team is quote still in collection mode regarding jordan tyson's hamstring leave the red light on me i mean this is this is really sucks it's really not good the range of outcomes here on this injury for those that don't know jordan tyson top 10 draft pick from asu multiple hamstring injuries while at asu uh had a hamstring injury in the draft process was just getting some of the best publicity possible with some of these you know routes he was running in practice that amazing i mean and this is this is why he was the number one scouted wide receiver for us we watched how twitchy he was at asu it was amazing but this hamstring is now genuinely threatening potentially his entire season i want people to understand surgery is a potential outcome of the hamstring injury to jordan tyson doesn't mean it is the outcome but when you have to say you're still in collection mode you don't get to oh we hope he's
Speaker 5back soon remember pay attention to bad news not good news you're seeking doctor's opinions because you don't you don't like the first few opinions do not usually i'm just putting this out there when you see oh guy has a hamstring problem they don't usually go seek like no oh no what do i do it's a hamstring issue it's like rest it for a couple weeks you get a great price on a car you don't go to five other dealerships no this is this is really bad and so as of this moment i am expecting him to miss the beginning of the season that's not based on like no i think for sure he will but it's not based on absolute knowledge that's what i'm saying is just my draft strategy i am approaching it like i'm not going to have him at the beginning of the season if i'm going to make that selection
Speaker 4do these guys ever this is a you know it's kind of funny but it's a genuine question when they have an injury like this and they go to the first doc and the doc's like oh surgery what no no no i'm saying like everything you'll be okay this it's a strain you know it's we're just a couple weeks are they is are they still like we need to make sure no no no never
Speaker 5no no if they get good news on the first one they don't go to a follow-up doctor human nature
Speaker 3george kittle very confident he won't start the season on the pup list has a chance to play week
Speaker 5one what he means by that is um he knows he's not going to miss the first four games in which case he will not be starting on the pup that's kind of how it was laid out he's hopeful he's there for week one but he is very confident they won't place him on the guaranteed to miss a month worth of games so that to me says if you're drafting george kittle which i don't blame you oh it's easy grab another tight end
Speaker 4are you going to say tondras yes i am we had this question i 100 i would i would draft if i'm taking kittle if i'm accepting the risk and they uh they talked about because they're the uh the australia game like they'll know he won't make the trip essentially so you'll you'll have can i make a
Speaker 3counter-argument for that sure the counter-argument isn't that ton just can't perform well kittle like in a very binary kittle out ton just in i think that works out the problem that i have with that strategy is that there could be a middle period of time where it's limited snaps for kittle therefore limited snaps for ton just and because of the players that i like at the back of the draft and isaiah likely is an option right i'd rather have somebody that i might i might have two good players right if right if you get if you get
Speaker 5dalton kincaid late isaiah likely late uh dallas goddard late all of a sudden come week four kittles back and rocking and you still have someone that with value i don't mind that at all i'm saying like you have a jawan johnson i know i can tempt you with jawan johnson but i'm not yeah you're taking him over ton just aren't you um jordan tyson's hamstring the yeah probably don't
Speaker 4you i yeah i would i do love you but my point is like if you know kittle is out like ton just is a free square in your draft like some other people might take isaiah likely in round 10 or something like that if you if you want to punt all the way to the end ton just will be waiting for you and if kittle is out this team with dot dot dot exactly it's like okay well if if everything works out it's great it's brand new mike evans it's brand new second round rookie stripling and ton just produces when george kittle is out i need he's already familiar i think ton just
Speaker 5i would be a very strong start that's fine and i would say draft strategy wise if you have an ir spot you don't need to use your draft just draft kittle no one is going to go and
Speaker 4draft ton just i can't imagine kittle in which case it would be very vindictive if somebody did
Speaker 5it yeah but i i would just wait till the draft is over throw kittle on your ir when that happens
Speaker 3before week one yeah there you go there's a plan i like tucker craft said the team will probably keep him on a snap count until halfway through the season he was out there practicing for the first time and there was like a quote about the wolves yeah slap him on the butt send him to the wolves after after the snap count yeah i don't like that it's gonna be like the gray i've been
Speaker 5out with limited snaps he can reference he he absolutely can he was dominant last year i have personally been out in the sixth round on a player that i think gets off to a slow start the fact that he is literally saying i'll probably be limited the first half of the year not that he can't just take one pass you know he doesn't have to be out there for for every step but i will counter that by saying like look at dalton kincaid last year the best yards per route run of all tight ends in the league he just didn't play enough snaps to be very very valuable and i don't know if i'm willing to wait half a year for craft to you know to be that that's me personally kyle monunga i left practice early
Speaker 3with an apparent right knee injury believed to be fine after testing but uh it's not been a good off season for Monongah's health DJ Moore it looked like a high ankle sprain was heading his way but according to Joe Brady he's good to go so that's nice to hear and then this one I am the uh you
Speaker 4saw the DJ Moore play the um why oh yeah they're completely wide and people were oh man wait you're
Speaker 5talking about the one where he catches the ball wide open and he he calls the defender to him
Speaker 4yeah I'm just saying like he's wide open so he gets a button people are like yeah I told you DJ Moore it's like you might be right about DJ Moore but this is not the play that that proves
Speaker 3your thesis all right guys I don't know you tell me whether you want the button on this one but Emeka Abuka underwent more testing and a specialist uh confirmed it was a toe sprain he's stable what I don't like is that they asked head coach Todd Bowles about his availability for week one and he could not confirm right now
Speaker 5that Emeka Abuka will be back there for week one although they are optimistic turf toe can linger turf toe can really impact players it's always it's silly and stupid because it's a toe sprain Jason yeah they're not no I know I know it's not turf toe yet right but if you if it comes out
Speaker 4if it happens on grass I don't think you can get well it's turf toe it has to be the big toe right yeah yeah so we don't know what we don't know which of the little piggies it is not yet didn't
Speaker 3we say we're going to remove the ring toe we said we could that I don't think we have to in honor of
Speaker 4Jaden Daniels though oh no that's them that's you got to get the pinky for that one I mean you just
Speaker 3either way you're going down to four you got to get down you got to respect five uh Najee Harris
Speaker 4I own the number five man he's good was that I don't remember the timing of this was this on the
Speaker 5show yet no not on the show this weekend it came out that Jaden Daniels legal team told LSU that his mom sounds like this it's his biggest fan for sure uh they told LSU that they can't use his name and image likeness that type of stuff because they let another quarterback wear number five
Speaker 4how to get everyone to turn on you immediately yeah I think over stupid bullcrap yeah there's
Speaker 5got to be what are you doing I want to see I genuinely want to see what are you doing with all the bad pub this would be the silliest thing does his ADP move does it move down just like that I don't want to go there but you definitely you have people who don't like to do like this I blame
Speaker 3Shadur yes you can't do you know how numbers work there's only so many numbers right a jersey fits all the double digit numbers if you just because you threw a touchdown pass or I know I know I know
Speaker 5he won a Heisman I know but like he wasn't even there he didn't win a national title and I think
Speaker 4Burroughs is yes Burroughs is out but
Speaker 5Burroughs won a national title he went undefeated his numbers were better this is for LSU yeah and
Speaker 3they had already promised this recruit which you should want your team to do well they promised to recruit this number and the recruit didn't want to give it up I'm not saying that you don't retire anybody's number ever it's just it's a slippery slope of like how everybody's gonna feel like
Speaker 4agree they had a good career and if you're Jane Daniels how are you not like calling them up be
Speaker 5like dude make the number five proud this is Michael Irving Michael Irving was like yeah
Speaker 4are you saying Irving no Michael Irving have you not heard Michael Irving Michael Irving don't oh he's got me
Speaker 5Bucky Irving yeah you just did it Irving all right you're gonna get everyone to turn the show off it was with an I but it was also with a G yeah it wasn't it wasn't just no I wasn't doing a magic Johnson thing this was I with a G my bad yeah it is I with an N I know okay gotcha I'm just I wasn't I wasn't all the way to E and G anyways he comes out and he's like he was 88 his number should be retired he's the best instead he creates this oh it's the it's so smart incredible legacy for 88 with the Cowboys and then Des Bryant and then CeeDee Lamb this is like welcome to the
Speaker 4club of greats well and he talks about he's like you know what they do they talk about it when when Des Bryant has a great like oh shades of the great Michael Irving stop it no I will walk off of the
Speaker 3set dude honor honor did you hear his Charlie Kolar crap he was doing it's Kolar Kolar and Irving this is is this how you felt when we were doing
Speaker 5the what was the stupid nickname Darnell Anderson yeah now I'm with you yeah years later I'm with you that's a slippery slope that was the best nickname ever my goodness um there you go Najee
Speaker 3Harris visiting with the Giants uh I don't think we need to talk much about it until he signs there
Speaker 5do you think that's just because Tyrone Tracy whiffed so hard on the block I would tell Tracy the same to not come back to work right into the blue tent all right well
Speaker 3we'll take a break we'll uh we'll get into breakouts let's do it
Speaker 2breakouts
Speaker 3Joe Montana Montana all right we have all of our consensus breakout picks inside of the ultimate draft kit this is a great show opportunity for us to talk about individual breakout picks that we are convicted about that we have faith in that we believe could help your team at a discount in fantasy drafts since we just talked about them uh multiple times might as well I guess I'll start it off my breakout pick is Isaiah likely okay Isaiah likely I can
Speaker 4see why you wouldn't draft Jake tonges uh yeah there you go
Speaker 3I mean you're going to get a 10th 11th 12th round value on Isaiah likely um he's one of the highest paid tight ends per year on average and I think we're I think we're suffering from uh unmet unfulfilled promises with Isaiah likely in days gone by the the truth of the matter is is he's one of the most gifted athletic tight ends they went out and spent the money to bring him into New York and while I have my concerns about this offense and Matt naggy and the you know the offense clicking and dart behind Center I think likely is one of the most obvious clear like discounts and values in fantasy football we've seen great moments from him we've seen him uh dominate in Zone threat and every single bit of news about this team and what they're saying is he's going he's been the number one target without the neighbors on the field and I think the capability is is there I think likely is the most obvious late round pick that's going to I believe be in every week easy start you know when John Harbaugh was talking about his confidence on Isaiah likely they asked him specifically about high volume in this offense and he said look the numbers that you're talking about the stats that you're talking about that wasn't part of the thing in Baltimore because of the supporting cast he said it's going to be a big year and I know he said positive things about it likely before but the truth of the matter was he had to share a lot of opportunities with Mark Andrews and the rest of this offense to me likely is going to be a breakout uh sans injury in in year one in New York um it's been the theme of spring and summer I'm excited about it and we and we've seen a lot of tight ends be the late bloomer type of situations where you know you had guys like Greg Olson not really blossom until he switched teams uh going to Carolina you saw Darren Waller his first fantasy season was at 27 years old Kelsey at 27 years old you didn't get in a joke who delivering big performances until his seventh season so right place right time to me it's a home run I I was the reason he's on this show is because he just narrowly missed being a my guy
Speaker 4for me so that's the level of conviction I have around Isaiah likely the the drum beat for him um I think it's it's been there it hasn't been loud in your face like uh some of the other players that that are just really getting Jake Ferguson's going ahead of him Mike no the ADP is is fine I'm saying I'm I'm I like it I think of a late round tight end that could really make a jump a team that you know unless Malik neighbors is ready to go 100 week one you don't know who the top target earner on the team is going to be could easily be Isaiah likely and well I can say that underneath there really has been buzz about him it's just not loud you know including the we we Jason and I interviewed Dart Isaiah likely was kind of the only player he talked about when we asked him about targets and then there's been little blurbs here and there that I'm surprised haven't elevated his ADP so he's sitting at a point where I think he is a very low risk high upside guy I don't know if I'm convinced it will happen but in this in the market in range of of outcomes there is definitely one where Isaiah likely ends
Speaker 5up as uh the the guy who always jumps into the top five what about the fact that Matt Nagy while we hate him most places he does involve tight ends more than we usually like sure who loves getting
Speaker 3John who Smith the ball you know yeah I mean I I just think that it's it's going to be a pretty like Mike Mike put it best this is a chance for high upside late in your draft yeah where it you know it's not that um you know we love Colston Loveland I love Ty Warren the craft thing is tough I love him but but he's limited snaps that's tough but like there's a world where like the gap between isaiah likely's performance and some of those guys may not be as big as you think but you do have to sacrifice a lot to pull the trigger on loveland early so so it's just something to think about but there's i mean there's other late round tight end names we've brought up multiple times like goddard is another one that i think will be involved but i think likely is a really interesting play in this new offense despite the and i think that there's going to be some growing pains for dart in this offense but likely is going to be um you know we saw it we saw it last year with theo johnson that he built a rapport with this tight end right away and it's interesting because hayden weeks pointed out like when he played all the plays that likely came in on were passing downs he never put his hand in the dirt once theo johnson was in there blocking for the blocking down so i think
Speaker 4he'll be a targeted receiver in this offense and you do it it's just like a little bonus for him of like if dart continues to get exploded on the field waiting in the wings guys jamis wins oh i mean the odds have seen jamis this year feel very hot pretty good and if jamis comes in i will not have any concerns for for any
Speaker 3of my pass catchers yeah we want we want them routes for the tight ends i think you'll see a ton of them from likely so that's my breakout pick jason mike who wants to go next i'll jump in here
Speaker 4uh it is a player that i think the three like oh this guy took the nation by storm last year and i think as a show all three of us we were pretty hesitant because it's a seventh round rookie running back everyone's so excited he became like the bit of the show it was a good time
Speaker 3um this one's so interesting to me mike because we are post hype season of last year yes and you keep coming i feel like the way it's gone is this off season you haven't been like trying to chase jcm you just keep coming back to a place where you bring his name up i spent
Speaker 4most of the off season of like hey they added rashad white could he end up being the guy and you know just the way i'm reading the situation right now it sounds like the team really just they want it to be bill krosky merit and the adp is shocking to me on sleeper bill krosky is going as the running back 37 which is in fact lower than he was last year around this time like that that is absurd the people are so mad at bill he was which what eckler was around last year yeah and eckler eckler was a a huge part of why i wasn't sure that bill could take over as the seventh runner but then of course eckler goes down to the achilles and in week two but bill for for what he was able to put on the field he was very efficient you know over the the first five games uh you were seeing an average of 6.6 yards per carry and then honestly the whole team falls apart you have jane daniels injuries things are just the other guys are getting injured all over the place like terry missing time it just really didn't work out for washington and bill struggled mightily but towards the end of the season you know the final three games we had an uh we had an 18 for 96 with a touchdown it's against the giants that's not great uh as in like people are beating up on the giants but he's taking what's there the week 17 against dallas 11 for 105 he had he has the juice on a high note and and we knew he had the juice like his his highlights are like this is he's one of the few running backs that at any point could rip off the 40-yard touchdown he has that ability he's going lower than last year it's it's it's insane and interesting washington washington should be a at least middle you know to an upper echelon offense i still believe in jane daniels despite his thinking he owns the number five and and this is this is an ambiguous situation he doesn't know yeah we're watching you think you're gonna get 55 but it's like chicago jacksonville minnesota washington these are the the the more potent potential offenses that is their their running backs are going outside of the top 24 these are the players that can change the balance yeah we want i want to hit my fourth rounder and all this stuff i want to find the late round running back that can come in here and really stabilize my team if not take it to the next level they've they've been expressing we need him to get better with the ball out of his hands and talk of like we don't want to have pigeonholed running back we don't want to have pigeonholed running back we don't want to have we don't want to when bill's out there the defense though oh they're gonna run it and when white is out there oh they're gonna throw they this is something that washington does not want to happen which sounds like if bill takes the job that's potentially a three down running back and like so that's that's very very exciting for going as the running back 37 crud is gone so he doesn't have you know that type of uh of competition at the goal line seems like he should get that no matter what so i'm very excited about that i'm very excited about that i'm very excited about that i'm very interested in his adp and i'm very interested in what bill could turn the crowd point is really
Speaker 3interesting because he was very effective down there and got a lot of opportunities
Speaker 4to be fair that is what i said i didn't need to be repeated i didn't realize you need to beat that
Speaker 5i didn't realize how bad what he said was i just knew he misspoke and i had to call him out on it and then i realized that's very bad leave this in but you gotta be very very bad i take 20 vowels are very important
Speaker 3i take 20 you're telling me i said it like that yeah you did you did you did yes you guys are nodding like like you're right we all heard it you're nodding like you're telling the truth
Speaker 5i don't believe you yeah no i i that's that's no way to know there's no way we'll never be
Speaker 3able to tell if you had actually said it that way first or not all i know is that Whatever way Jason said it was worse.
Speaker 5Yes. I will agree with that because I hit it a little harder.
Speaker 3I mean, you tripped into your own trap.
Speaker 5I tripped into your trap. Yeah, well. Is this show still on the air? Do we have to mark this episode differently? We have the technology to push through. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3I'm 12 years of shows.
Speaker 5I'm sorry, everybody. Back to Bill. I just have a question. Okay. If this is the only – I know you didn't bring this up, and this was basically you made all the arguments for why Bill's a good breakout pick. He can do it. This office is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. I actually think the only reason that you like him is because your argument for why Bucky Irving was a breakout was just simply because you were betting against Rashad White. You're like, he's not good. It really was the crux of the entire argument. Is that what's happening here? It's just like you just have to – You have to compete with Rashad White, who's not that good.
Speaker 4Look, if you want three and a half yards, Rashad White's your dude. If you want four and a half yards, he's not. I'm not even listening to the show anymore.
Speaker 3What? All right, Jason, it's time to talk about your breakout. This is one that I think you might stand alone in this studio on. I want to know. I want it known that I do.
Speaker 5I want it known that I do stand alone on this. And I'm looking at you, Mike. I stand alone. You are to the lowest. You have him at running back 26. I'm very out. Yeah, you're out. Shooketh. So – What an honest guy Mike is. I am going – Calling balls and strikes, guys. I'm going against the grain. It feels contrarian, which is a little weird, but my breakout pick – Not ADP-wise. Well, a little bit. A little bit in both directions. I'll explain. My breakout is Travion Henderson. Travion Henderson, an absolute dynamo of a running back, an explosive – You know, anytime he touches the ball, he can house it. He can get a touchdown. He had a very weird rookie year, right? The first two months of the season, he was not used. He was basically – Like, he didn't get nine touches a game. He was kind of a gadgety guy, the rookie being brought along slowly, despite the fact that he was almost a first-round pick. He was, like, super high second-round pick. The draft capital was there. Explosiveness, we still saw it in those plays, but it took Ramondre going down to an injury before he really got to explode. However, once he was a part of the offense, it was a clear working strategy. He was dominant. He was very, very good. In fact, during that time from week nine on, he was the running back nine, averaging 16.7 fantasy points per game. When it happened, he was a monster. Yeah, his rookie season –
Speaker 3Not to be confused with Ramon. He was a monster.
Speaker 5Correct. Correct. Not to be confused with Ramonster. Yeah. Yeah. You can hit it. Yeah, thank you. People don't really like that one. But here's the thing. He was good. I know I've heard Andy say, oh, I don't like how he looked between the tackles or whatever, but the truth is he was a very good running back. He was extremely efficient. Of 55 qualifying running backs with 80 or more rushing attempts, he was number one in yards before contact, six in yards per carry, 12th in explosive rush rate at 5.6. That was identical to Bijan Robinson. He had four touchdown runs of 50 or more yards last year, most of the NFL. so this is a guy you want the ball in his hands uh and they gave him work inside the 10 he you know remandre had 16 10 zone rush attempts travion had 21 how good was his rookie year he had 1100 total yards and 10 rushing touchdown or 10 total touchdowns he did that on only 215 touches he's a good running back he's a good player he's explosive the argument against him is is remandre stevenson like that is the whole argument against him is that he's and it should
Speaker 4be an easy argument to overcome but i fear that it has become and totally and that's why he's not
Speaker 5being drafted in the first or second round he was a rookie running back who averaged over five yards per carry had a 50 plus percent rush success and 10 touchdowns since the year 2000 which is amazingly over a quarter of a century ago i don't believe you the oh i know i felt bad when i realized that the only guys who have done that in their rookie season is clinton portis zeke camara jonathan taylor and achan and then now travion henderson you say that henderson is being drafted super high like he's broken out but he's he's actually his adp is so far beyond what those other guys year two were those other guys were all first round picks or uh achan was a second round pick the following year we're talking the 411 almost a fifth round pick here for travion henderson i realize he's in a timeshare but but but jason did you know to yourself the timeshare is a big deal except the fact that like those other guys that i just mentioned camara he was with mark ingram who had 12 rushing touchdowns and was the running back six his rookie year achan was with mostert who had he was the running back two with like 20 touchdowns yeah it's uh
Speaker 3the point that i am saying sorry let me let give you your exclamation point
Speaker 5is that this is the type of player that you have to take a shot on to truly be a breakout candidate that's true you have to call your shot that that the backfield just won't stay the same and that's what we have seen over and over nick chubb was an explosive guy but he was bare you know it's like carlos hyde that was a big problem then they they traded him away camara with ingram james cook with devin singletary sounds silly afterwards but in that year gibbs and monty it was like when there is the more explosive player that you have to take a shot on to truly be a breakout candidate that's explosive special player with high draft capital they're going to end up getting the work and honestly we saw it last year this is the this is the thing that i i think what happened in the playoffs when they played these unfathomably great defenses i mean their their run of playoff to get to the super bowl they played super d super d super d and remandre was the guy on the field i get that but when remandre came back from injury during trevo's rookie season from weeks 12 on they gave henderson 13.3 rushing attempts per game and they gave uh remandre 7.8 like the switch happened you get to the playoffs you go oh we got to do the the trusted they they played defense they didn't score a lot of points it was a great strategy i think as a full season goes on your most explosive player is going to get the ball more than than remandre and if that and that has to happen to pay off at 411 but if trevion henderson ends up at the end of the year with the 60 40 opportunity count over remandre he's he's going to be a a great pick a top back so i'm calling him a breakout player now because next year if he broke out you you just go oh i mean that was a great pick there's only one of two directions it goes i don't think there's a world where he is exactly what you're drafting him as right now okay personally yeah i'm
Speaker 3i i think um i think it's it's a tough situation to see what happened in his rookie year because you had his three first his first three productive games were when remandre missed and then remandre was limited in practices and stuff coming back and they obviously were kind of they showed what they wanted to do when they got to the playoffs in my opinion so it to me there's there is a world where he's the exact same thing and i worry about his pass protection there's nothing about him to me that says three down back so i'm going to go with him i'm going to go with him i'm going to go back just me personally from what i saw in the field i think he's a compliment back i think he's an explosive guy but the reports in the in the off season have been really negative about his pass protection and they have and the and remandre is the the thing that nobody wants to say out loud is that he's a really good running back we were willing to say it when trevo didn't exist when he got a contract extension and we were excited about him then now he just represents a thorn in the side of this other sexier guy that we like but the team said in in my opinion they said in
Speaker 5that remandre is their number one running back i think i think remandre is a very good running back i'm not afraid to say that this isn't like rashad white where i'm going all he's got to do is beat remandre and that's so easy my point is more david montgomery was a good running back mark ingram was a good running back these other guys in these really good offenses time shares are good running backs the more explosive the better running back can be great for fancy and they have to be the
Speaker 4running back though yeah they do have to be that's that's the the rub i don't know that he has to be better he just he has to duplicate being that explosive and efficient and hitting that many
Speaker 5big plays yeah and the thing is is how do you look at the patriots offense like i know andy you've been very very bullish on drake may being legit being a a top quarterback in the league from what he did last year he was an mvp candidate got to the super bowl you are a believer that it's real if this offense ends up as one of those like top five or six offenses in the league i don't think it takes a complete bell cow total volume going to henderson to be really successful however there is the there is the world where i mean remandre has missed 10 games in the last three years he's not been a pillar of health when he went down last year you say you you don't have evidence of him being able to be a bell cow well in those four games he wasn't say that
Speaker 3you said you didn't say anything about him having i said i don't see him as a three down back in the nfl which is why his i didn't say i didn't have evidence of it i said i don't see that being his his prototypical what you're going to see on a regular basis anybody can be forced into that if their leader if the lead back gets hurt yeah you you i mean you basically said i didn't say
Speaker 5the word evidence you said we haven't had anything just to make us correctly i i let's go to the tape because you said i can't quote you correctly we haven't seen anything to make us believe this is three down back but in those four games in those four games he was on pace for three i'm allowed to have an opinion
Speaker 3that's different than you but you're i can tell you that i don't think that the that he's a three
Speaker 5down back in the nfl and his draft pick says that you're also allowed to like what you say stand by what you say and not change it 10 minutes i didn't change it i didn't say the thing is we have a tape i have evidence there's no evidence i said i don't
Speaker 3see him as a three down back and the team doesn't that's why they don't play him on third down very often sometimes because remandre can pass protect you don't like it that i have a different opinion
Speaker 5and that's okay nothing to do with you i what i'm saying is that ramon who's the number one running back on the team remandre okay what is he's already won what does number one running back
Speaker 3mean carries it means the guy that they look to when when yeah i mean i think carries i think at
Speaker 5the end of the year henderson has more carries do you believe is a big part of the equation
Speaker 3they're a successful team that went to the super bowl with this recipe remandre stevenson is a vrabel type guy he does the dirty work they love him they throw him the
Speaker 5football it was great in the passing game i like remandre but i we've got to have a bet here and the bet that i think you will easily is that the bet that i think you will easily take and easily i'm sorry i shared a different opinion that is not what i'm saying my god i'm sorry you are we will check the tape yeah we will um the the uh the bet that i think you will definitely take is when they are both healthy like if they're both playing in the game total carries on the season like carries per game i think henderson has more than remandre which would make him i mean i'm i'm fine with that i don't really like the
Speaker 3the situation right now but i'll give you that
Speaker 5water bet he's notwithstanding of course that's what i said when they're both playing and in games play yeah i think he's going to win i think he's going to win i think he's going to win
Speaker 3henderson leads you're allowed it's your pick you can have him as a breakout i do i'm sorry for filling in i hope you're right jason thanks mike is also on my side just quietly on the side that he doesn't he's playing both sides he's playing he's hoping on one and believing we'll take a break and talk mailbag
Speaker 2mailbag
Speaker 6oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag oh i wasn't sure i was going to say mailbag
Speaker 3oh i wasn't sure i was going to be able to do it yeah you you were uh voiceless i'm glad you didn't come in on friday that would have been a
Speaker 7mucous oh brother fest uh did you hear matt's mailbag no you didn't hear what happened it was really exactly we have a clip no we don't uh the situation that happened mike just to give you the
Speaker 3quick tldr is that mike jason show i gave jason the power to choose who does the mailbag okay he chose matt when matt was given the power to choose who does the mailbag he chose matt when matt was given the chance to do the mailbag he was dead silent when matt was given the chance to do the mailbag he was dead silent when matt was given the chance to do the mailbag he was dead silent he didn't say anything he was trying to set he didn't say anything he was trying to set he didn't say anything he was trying to set these guys up to help him and then he just was quiet to try to sell him down the river so then i said i'm not hitting the drop again you're doing the music and the drop and he did an effort at that he did try to do that well i'll have to check it out all right if you have a question for the show we're here to help go to the website the fantasy footballers.com click the submit a question button or dial our voicemail hotline 302464 tffb youtube question from josh who is usually the first to lock in all three of their
Speaker 5guys is there an answer i don't think there is one i feel like i i think you're i think you are the one that locks someone in the earliest like you you usually have an off season like this year alec pierce from the get-go was going to be until recently when he hasn't been able to get healthy but i think most years mike evans for you one year was super early like all off season you were locked jameson williams was like an all you always have one guy that you're like very early and never sway on i don't i don't know that i feel like you might have had yours down before anybody this year yeah or mike did i would say most years there isn't really an answer to
Speaker 3this that's universal it's just it's not great to lock i mean we give that advice to our listeners like you want to stay water so like that was actually one of the things i think we probably brought up in the you know maybe not in 10 things to remember but basically like i want to wait a while because you can feel great about a situation and personnel the draft all that
Speaker 4happens i want to remember don't trade george pickens my guys to jason yeah because he was yours for a long time yeah because that dude was on the board forever eric in iowa city iowa when
Speaker 3considering strength of schedule why do you put so much emphasis on weeks one through six rather
Speaker 4than the entire season well number one uh you want hot starts in fantasy football the it's silly but this is the human part of the game the emotion of of waiting so long to see a player and if someone has two awesome weeks then it hey this is probably going to be a successful season if they have two terrible weeks they're a bust and you need to there's panic in the streets also with the changeover of just defense this is all we have to go on right now i can't project the entire season of of a of how a defense is going to go some the team that stinks against tight ends they will reveal themselves to us over the course of the season it may not be the same people yeah i
Speaker 5would also suggest look at the end of the year roster and then look at your draft and more than likely it will be surprising like oh wow i only drafted these three guys you you have a lot of changes the season is long trades um you know swaps on the way getting off to a hot start will allow you to make trades high uh to grab people who get off to a slow start and and and do better there so certainly getting off to um a a good beginning to the season is very valuable in fantasy
Speaker 3deborah in jonesborough tennessee when is it a bad idea to reach for a player in your draft top
Speaker 4five or would you go six rounds i feel like after five right around after that everyone has their warts so you know if there's a player in the whose adp say is in the seventh you know you're going to have to go six rounds i feel like after five rounds you're going to have to go six rounds right around after that everyone has their warts so you know if there's a player in the whose adp say is in the seventh you know if there's a player in the whose adp say is in the seventh you know if there's a player in the whose adp say is in the seventh you know if there's a player in the whose adp say is in the seventh but i'm in the fifth and it's like i got a i got a bad feeling in my gut that someone's going to take him i'll just take that player then but right around the five six round is where it starts to
Speaker 5break open the top of drafts in adp are pretty good like yeah statistically historically especially in the last five years people get things right more than they don't obviously when you get to the later rounds it's a scatter shot so when you when you reach two far in those early rounds you're usually going to be making a mistake and the thing is is in those early rounds adp is more established so it's not just that you're making a mistake and grabbing a worse player over a better even if you reach and that guy is correct you're not getting the value you could get by getting him the next round or you know obviously if he falls all the way to his adp you're just not getting the most value you can
Speaker 3jeff and madison wisconsin i haven't heard much talk about the dreaded rb dead zone where would
Speaker 4the dead zone falls this year mike uh so we we did just briefly start talking about it
Speaker 5i had a whole thing that released on saturday about the running back dead zone uh on just the tips you can go listen to it uh from this last weekend but it's back um you know the the thing that we have seen and we're going to be talking about this uh on wednesday as well is that running backs this year because of the health of the last couple years have been pushed up
Speaker 4um more than it was a couple years it's always there it just kind of shifts where it is yeah inside the draft we'll talk about it in detail here in a couple days all right well i was gonna say i think it probably starts and look i love scataboo but i think right around there is where you start you have guys where you're you're either concerned about the team
Speaker 3or you're concerned about the the timeshare all right we have sleepers on tomorrow's episode wednesday we'll talk about that and then we'll talk about the rest of the week we'll cover the 10 tips and tricks we'll have bus and values and a mayhem mock draft with mike
Speaker 4back in the building yeah he was just afraid of the mayhem oh i was he's terrified i was very
Speaker 3afraid very afraid all right don't forget the udk for life giveaway pick it up take my theraflu away from me yeah the uh the drafts are here ultimate draft kit.com we'll talk to you
Speaker 2tomorrow goodbye thank you for listening to another episode of the fantasy footballers podcast join our fantasy football community on join the foot.com and follow us on twitter at the ff ballers
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