Breaking the Cycle: Edwin Lee on Self-Worth and Survival, episode 90

[Music] Welcome to the Inside Circle Podcast, where your host Elder Jackson III and his guests get personal about prison and transformation in all of its forms. [Music] This is Inside Circle, where your truth will set you free. Hello folks and welcome to the Inside Circle Podcast. Today we have with us Mr. Edwin. Edwin describes himself as a human being that struggled his entire life with believing that he wasn't good enough and that he wouldn't amount to anything. Edwin once punished himself for every little mis-app in his life because he thought being perfect was how he'd received love. After being incarcerated for over 15 years, today Edwin now loves himself. He's transformed his suffering into sensitivity that allows him to be connected to a spirit of love for self and with others. Good day Edwin, how are you doing sir? I'm good, thanks for having me, I'm still surprised I wrote that. It doesn't sound like my writing, but it's me. You've got to give myself some credit right there. It's your writing, it's your writing, you wrote it and knowing that you wrote that and hearing that you wrote that, where does that come from? Say more about where some of those thoughts were developed, where some of those thoughts and beliefs come from. So growing up, I've constantly wanted to achieve the love and the attention from my parents because I idolize my parents growing up. But giving the circumstances of my parents' life and everything that they were trying to do as first generation immigrants in America, they grew up in a different culture. When they came to America, they was just trying to provide a different life for me and in that process unfortunately a lot of their time was spent on working and grinding, trying to give me the life that they didn't have. And in doing so, their priorities was in a different place, right? Because I grew up as a lonely child. So I was extremely lonely a lot of the times and I just wanted to kick over my parents because I loved my mom and my dad at an early age. But they were just constantly focused on work. So when I was a little kid and I started to recognize how lonely and how much attention I wanted from them that I wasn't getting. I started to like form this narrative in my mind that my parents are in a round because it's my fault. I must be wrong because this is why they're not spending time with me. And I couldn't really conceptualize the fact that no, I'm all in that is they trying to survive and they try to provide a life for me. They try to keep this roof over my head and close on my back and fluid on the table because that's a lot of the things that they didn't have and try to grow enough. So they thought that by giving me the life of everything they didn't have all of these external things like they didn't have a roof over their head. They didn't have a stable amount of food every day. They were struggling. So they want to give me all that. But I realized that I didn't care about that. I'm a very sensitive individual who needs love and connection of my life. And at the time as a child, I didn't really have many friends. So I wanted that love from them. And because I couldn't get that like this very, very like ingrained belief early on that I'm not enough. Like it started to form and it started to manifest in many, many different toxic negative maladaptive ways in my life. And I remember as a little kid, right? I was in second grade. One of the things my parents always wanted for me was to do good in school to have a really good education. It's a very stereotypical Chinese fucking way of living life, right? But education is a very high value placed on that. And all my cousins who were like me, they're our second generation. All went to Ivy League colleges. And I was the black sheep of the family. I just didn't do good in school. I don't know if I had like some type of learning disability, but school just wasn't for me early on. But that's always what my parents wanted from me. And when I was in second grade, I took a, I had, there was a, there's something called a star test in the Bay Area. I don't know if this is the testing system they use across the state, right? But I had gotten like mediocre percentages. I had gotten like seas across the board. And I was proud of myself. I had gone live. I was like, man, this is, I did pretty good because I thought I'd do the do way worse. And when my parents looked at the report card, like, man, you need to do better than this shit. Like what the fuck is in? We don't work, we don't work this hard for you to get fucking seas. And when I heard that it crushed me, Oedra, it crushed me and like it crushed myself worth because I thought that that was I wanted the first moments where I could actually make my, my parents proud of me. And instead, it was like, whoo, that Asian tiger, that tiger parenting came out. I know you need to do better. But I internalized that man. I internalized that and I just, at that point, the story started to play out in my mind like, dude, I can't do this. I can't make them happy. So it's sort of just perpetuated like the city's lack of effort for me at school and I sort of gave up. And at that point, I started to reset my parents. I started to reset them. I started to be embarrassed by them. I started to be humiliated by them. All while feeling like these are the most important people in my life. So love became very confusing for me, Oedra, because I knew that they were my parents. I knew they bought me into this world, but I carried so much pain and suffering with the people that I thought that I could love the most of my life. So that's a little backstory of where started as a little kid. And of course, all of these behaviors manifested into like, you know, my lifestyle as a gay member and as a criminal and as a drug addict. Yeah. So, so yeah, let's not gloss over that. Because I heard in there, and first of all, thank you for sharing. And I heard in there where, you know, the genesis was of the self-talk and the beliefs and the struggles around self-worth and where the resentment started. And, you know, you kind of said what it led to, you know, criminal behavior, life as a gang member, drug addict. And what was the progression? How do you go from, you know, being a student, being raised in a Chinese American home, and then going into all of those things because it didn't happen overnight. No, it didn't. So this is a trip, right? So when I started doing really good bad in school, like my generation of Asian American kids, well, not just Asian Americans, but my generation, we grew up in this technological boom, right? It's down to the air of the internet. I'm, this is a trip when I tell people, but I was playing a video game called Counter Strike. It was a, it's a first person shooter, an online multiplayer shooting game. And I had actually met a lot of people in the San Francisco area from Chinatown who was playing this game too. And we were all kids that would be on, I used to skip school. So we'd be on in the middle of the noon, just playing this gag. And I remember just being in a chat. I'm like, man, oh, yeah, what are you doing? And we're dead. I shit, we thought to we 14 years old. I'm like, why aren't you at school? There should be like, why aren't you at school? I should because I don't want to be. And things just progress and I really build a connection with these individuals off this fucking video game, right? And we start kicking it in Chinatown because you know, a lot of us grew up in Chinatown. So as we're as we're kicking it, we're just literally chilling out on the streets, not doing shit, but just smoking cigarettes hanging out on the block. And we're literally just chopping it up. But as I'm kicking it with them, I feel peace and calm because it's just like these are people who I feel like understand me. These are people who I feel like have a similar upbringing to me. I didn't notice at the time because I'm just a teenager right and this comes off from like myself reflection. But I realized that like, you know what, these are people who have similar freaking backgrounds as me. And I feel connection to them because we look the same. Our parents are very similar. So it was just like, I naturally live with them. And then I remember so in Chinatown, right, there was always different clips. There was people around like, there's a 14 year old kids chilling, selling fireworks around the block kicking it on Jackson Street. And then there's also this, there's of course the older kids, right? But for 16, 17, 18 years old, the next generation above us, they start asking us to come around. And they're like, what's up? Come, come check out some of the spots where I come check out some of what we're doing because I naturally see I naturally see the lifestyle that they live, you know, they got some, they got some cute females around them. You know, they're running around Chinatown. They're slaying. They're doing moves for themselves. I see who they're talking to. They're talking to the older heads. And I see like the type of respect that they get. I felt like, man, that's that's a pretty good look. I want some of that power. I want some of that respect. You know that they get not just not just from females, but just naturally. in the streets in the way they carried them. So they had this type of robot up. Like, they look like they do as a shit and they walk like they was a shit. Yeah. And naturally I felt like, man, this is what I mean because I don't wanna feel weak. I don't wanna feel like a powerless little kid, man. 'Cause at that time I wasn't. I didn't have any guidance in my life and I needed that. So I naturally gravitated towards my homies where I was kicking it with and the older homies. Because I thought that I had one, I did want what they had at that time. So I was gonna, I just made a decision, I think to go get it because I couldn't do good in school. I couldn't be like my cousins. So it was just like, man, let me do it this way that. Let me see if I can have some type of control over my life by doing these things. Yeah, yeah, they control, like, can I have control over my life by doing these things? And then you find yourself in prison. Yeah, and somebody else hands control over your life. What was that like? (laughs) Honestly, that was a trip, right? Because I'm telling the shame that I carried. It was gone, I'm not a stupor muffler. So it's just like when I realized, damn, I really like, thought I wanted to live as a game member or as a drug dealer. So I'm kicking it on a blog doing all this stupid shit, hurting all these other people for respect and power. And now look at me, I'm sitting in prison with a 20-year sentence. And I have these seals that can tell me when I eat, when I shower, when I can use the phone. So ultimately, I wanted control over my life, right? But every decision that I was making in my life, that to the consequences of me have a very little control over my life. Because now I'm deemed someone in some anti-social person in society where my decisions lead to like the harm of a lot of people. So now I gotta be put away in a box. And I was never one of the people who like blame my circumstances for what I did in prison. 'Cause when I got sentenced, I made a remorse statement. I made an impact statement to my victim because I wanted to let them know that. I know what I did was fucked up to you and your family once I recognized how much I was hurt and how much damage I caused to you. And in knowing that and in knowing that I'm the reason why I'm in prison, man, before I got into my journey of self-help and transformation, right? That was very heavy for me because so much shame has been instilled in me in my life from my parents due to right things, through good and school. And every decision that I had, like I won't say every decision, but most of my decisions leading up to that point and me coming to prison, that's all me. So knowing that I had put myself in that type of situation was extremely painful, was extremely heavy. Like I really started to be in this place where I hated myself for putting myself in prison. And I hated myself for knowing how much damage I caused to other people. Especially my own family of loved ones. Yeah. And so how do you deal with that? How do you deal with that hate for self? How do you come to terms and begin to reconcile with what you're responsible for? Yeah, self. It happened very, very differently in different phases of my life, right? 'Cause early on when I was in my dysfunction, when I was in prison, and I was always playing with a cell phone. I sort of gave up on myself, right? And there was just too much pain in my life. And I had gone sober in 2015. So during that time, right? I wasn't using drugs anymore. However, I was still conducting myself in a way where I couldn't really deal with all of the shit that I had going on in my life. So while I'm on the yard, right? I'm gonna gamble, I'm gonna play with cell phones, and I'm gonna involve myself in prison politics because you know what? I need to do something with my time. And because when I'm in that cell, and when we're all locked down, and if I don't have a cell phone, or if I don't have something distracting me, my mind was just ruminating all the time, bro. And it was just like, I don't know. I had a lot of suicidal ideations. Like, I just felt really, really worthless in that cell. A lot of the times, man, early on. So did I cope with it well then? Absolutely not. That was the beginning stages of my incarceration. And I was probably doing that for like, the good first, I'll say seven years of my incarceration, seven to eight years of just, I call it like being a zombie. I'm just on autopilot, man. You know, you know, like when you're on a yard, right? You know how like you can see like the homies or yourself. It's like a gaze you have where you just like stare off. You know, I caught the thousand mile gaze. I don't know what's so a name to that, but it's just like this look. And now that I understand psychology, it's like I'm dissociating, right? I'm not in the present moment, because the present moment and everything around me, it's just too fucking much. So it's just like, I escape outside of myself and I just stare off. I used to do that all the time and I used to see people doing that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And I realized how much time you're monitoring it. How did I come out of that? Man, look. So when I was in 2018, when I was at Salano, there was a program I was in called the Lansi Street. They had a building. They had a separate building on the yard, on A yard at Salano, where people could live and could program. And I knew about the Lansi Street, because I was in a program in County Jill that was based off of the Lansi Street. And they had a couple of the Lansi Street counselors in there and they had laced me up to that this program being opened eventually. But I was in County Jill in 2010. So that was way later down the line, right? But I knew about it. So in 2018, I decided to give myself a shot, right? I was like, man, let me see what this is about. So I put in a letter to enter this program. And I would say that this was like the beginning stages of my rehabilitation, because I had entered a program where there was a lot of accountability held for incarcerated individuals in there. Like you would be living in there, however, it's a different set of, it's a different type of structure there. Now you're gonna attend like the groups that are going on in there. And you're gonna do your best to hold each other, quote unquote, accountable. And I did this at the time because I was still carrying a lot of fucking, like I was still carrying a lot of beliefs, like, man, ain't nobody gonna tell me shit about my own life or ain't nobody gonna tell me how to do time. So I was really putting myself in an uncomfortable situation by allowing other people to like point out things to me that I didn't really want pointed out. So that was like the beginning stages of my rehabilitation and having that type of support system was it felt a little different and a little awkward, right? Because I'm so used to being around game members. And what we talked about is like the work we put in or waste a hustle and how we can make money. So there was no self-help talk jargon, no accountability, no doing the right thing, no consideration of like, hey, do you wanna do something different with your life? This is how you do it. You wanna go to this group, yada, yada, yada. So being in this type of environment, now you really pushed me, it really pushed me to the limits of just knowing, or experiencing something different other than like the typical culture of the prison yard as an active game member. And I was doing this while on an active yard still and a lot of these individuals look down on the program, they talk to like a lot of people talked about me, a lot of my own homies talked about me like, oh, man, he had the lands he's treating out, he ain't with us, you know what I mean? He's soft now. And I had to really like come to grips with myself like, damn, do these people love me? Like my whole life, I thought I was receiving love from these people, right? But at the end of the day, like I made this decision to try something new for myself, and I was extremely afraid of this because it was so outside of what I knew. So I had to start dealing with the realization or coming to grips with like, who really loves me in my life, who really cares about me. And in having these simple reflections with myself, I started to begin to learn how to put me first and how to put myself first to my recovery. And like that program was like the catalyst, I sort of kicked that off and it started began my journey of rehabilitation and transformation. - Yeah, yeah. And so you're on your journey of rehabilitation, you're changing, you're living a different life now, and I'm assuming you're on the back end and getting ready to go home. What was that like? Oh man, you know what, El Jule, I was on the back end, right? But at that time, so in 2018, when I was in that program, my release date was still pretty far away. I was still banking on my YOP date 'cause that was before the 66% kick didn't, that was still when I had, that was still, When 85% was lost, so my stretch, I thought I was still gonna be doing a little bit more time, because I had caught more time in prison too. So I guess, yeah, I was on the back end, but I knew that if I was gonna bank on this YLP board date to go from a little early, because I had a 20-year sentence, I need to like prepare more. I really need to like really focus on my rehabilitation and prepare like, I wasn't a lifer, but I had this mindset where like, let me prepare for my freedom like I am a lifer. So I started going to therapy, I started going to self-help groups, and it was challenging. It was really challenging because I felt like I was constantly on like a grind now, because I had transitioned from like being on a yard and boasting to really working on myself and focusing on my education, because at that time, I had enrolled in college, last in community college. Never forget about that. And I had enrolled into therapy, and I was just, I'm an extremist, right? So I jumped from one extreme to the end. I was an extremist as a game member, so now I'm gonna be a fucking extremist with my self-help. Like this, that fucking, that work ethic, like that my parents had, I feel like that spirit was inside of me. So I used all that and I started just investing myself fully on my self-help and on my rehabilitation. And it was very challenging because I was still battling with myself. I still thought about the homies. I still thought about my criminal lifestyle. I still thought about selling drugs, and I was still dealing with all the rage I had inside of me as a game member. All that was still alive in me. Like I felt like it was an identity crisis because I don't know I'm doing something new. It's just like, man, is this really me? I was on defense. You know what I mean? So where'd that go? How'd you get off defense? Man. So I left the Lansi Street, right? And I signed up for a program called OMCP. OMCP is a, it's a program to become an alcohol-horn drug counselor. And I went through that process, and I completed it. And I had, and to be an OMCP, I needed to transfer to the level two yard. So I had been used to living in a cell most of my term. So knowing that I would have to transition to a level two, it took me like about a year and a half to really commit to OMCP because I was battling with the idea of like, Dan, can I live in a dorm with all these other motherfuckers? You know, because I had to feel like this would be challenging because I felt comfortable in the isolation of being in a cell. Being in a cell brought me comfort. It's a trip. Lockdowns brought me comfort. So being in an open space like that, I didn't know if I was ready for it. But once again, just took a leap of faith, signed up for that program. And I really felt like that program was another catalyst that helped me take another step up in my recovery and my rehabilitation because I had to go through a, I had to go through a seven month program, a substance use group. And I was with the same group of individuals who were also working towards the same goals. So I mean, I mean, I'm in like this circumstance now where I have other individuals who are actually working on themselves just like me. It's, it's positive, you know? I'm starting to feel a little bit more optimistic about my life. Despite all the bullshit that I got to deal with living in a dorm. And despite my aversion towards that. And I mentioned all of this to say because when you, when you complete OMSCP, when you pass the test, you have to earn two thousand eighty hours to like some, some hours in group to really complete it to get your certification as a, as a certified drug counselor. So everybody knows an OMSCP, once you sign up, once you finish it, you can get sent to any prison in California afterwards. And at that time, Salano was an active prison. It was one of the last few GP prison yards. So in knowing this, there was a chance that I could get transferred to an NDPF yard or an SNY yard. But going into OMSCP, I signed a contract in accepting the fact that that's okay. Like this is what you signed up for. You know? So in knowing that I signed my name to be an OMSCP, it's like this could be a potential, even though I don't want it to happen. And I go, I'm, I'm going to put OMSCP on front, right? Because a lot of people sign up for this program or trying to manipulate their way into not transferring to an SNY or, or, or an NDPF yard. You know, because some people are still active either going through this program. And I was also one of them. I tried to finale to not get transferred out. I want to stand Salano when I finished OMSCP, but they're like, ah, you, uh, you got, yeah, so a CC3, which is the captain, they want you at CMF. They requested you. And you know, I knew CMF was, you know, it's, it's, every prison has its own labels, right? Whether they're true or not. And CMF was one of those yards where there was a deal, there's a big EOP population. It was labeled quote unquote, all bad, you know? And I was about to go there. So I had a tough decision to make. About going to CMF. And I really sat with them and for those who were listening, who may not recognize the, the, the, the in house jargon EOP is, oh, enhanced, enhanced outpatient programs. Yeah. For, for, for people who need extra assistance with their mental health struggles. Yeah. And at that time, yeah, I didn't understand that there were individuals who needed that type of support while locked up. So I was, I was ignorant then. But yes, CMF is an EOP, uh, there's a huge EOP population. So I had to sit with myself because for me, I didn't want to go to that type of prison because I was still worried about what everyone else thought of me sometimes. So ultimately, I ended up going to CMF. I sort of just, I sort of just forced myself to deal with it then and in preparations for that when I told the homies like, Hey, before I left, I'm going to CMF, you know? And there were like, as an Asian American game member in prison, there's politics, however, the politics ain't as serious yet. There's still like this, there's still like this looming fear though. Like what's going to happen to me? And I remember, I remember like my homies telling me, like, Hey, man, because by the time I was at OMSCP, I was walking to straight and straight. I wasn't messing around as much. So they gave me credit for that. So they were like, loves, just make sure you don't come back. Because if you, if you come back, you know what time it is. And for people who don't understand the jargon, or I listen to this, it means that once I go to a sensitive needs yard from an active yard, I am no longer considered an active game member in prison, which means if I come back, I'm labeled no good. And the consequences of that are, I can get asked. I can get hurt, I can get killed for it. Yeah. So I had a tough decision to make because once I go to CMF, like my whole identity as a game member, both from my past and in prison, I sober with. That's really over with. No more. Yeah. And I decided it's time. Let's do this. I'm going to really like, I don't know what I did. I had no idea what was to come in my journey, but I knew that this is my opportunity to make a decision for myself to completely let go of a lifestyle that didn't know justice going on. And I did it. Yeah. So now I'm a CMF. Yeah. And now that now that I'm in CMF, I really, really need to look at like my whole personal beliefs, my personal biases that I've developed about human beings, because going up in the subculture and that I did, going up as a game member, I had developed a tremendous amount of distorted beliefs about other human beings. I was extremely racist. I was elitist in the sense that I I believe that my people Asian game members were above everybody else. No, I didn't see other people's human beings. That was my conditioning from prison. And when I got to CMF, there were no more, there were no more like racial barriers in that sense. I could talk to another person of a different race. I could eat with them. Shit, I can be in the same shower as them because you shared showers with people. Whereas on active yards, that's not how it was. That was no longer, I was no longer in the 1960s in prison. You know what I'm saying? I had to really get to know other people of different races and different colors, creasing cultures. And that was a culture shock for me. That was a culture shock. And at that moment when I got to see a myth is when I realized how much damage I had did to myself from my lifestyle. Not just the physical external damage I caused others, but the psychological turmoil in my own perception and how I saw life and other people. But I started to regain my humanity because of the inside circle. Yeah, yeah, it's a trip, man. You know, to hear you talk about the move and the parallel, you know, making the parallel like, okay, I'm going to another prison. and it's like I'm going from the 1960s to modern day times. And it's a perfect way to describe it for those who may not be in the know. So a question that I have, man, is, you know, we've kind of gone through the journey of growing up and some of the factors that led to your belief system, your stinking thinking, my stinking thinking. How you wound up, you know, in prison and what that journey looked like in prison, can you speak a little bit about being in the midst of the transition coming back out in the society 'cause you're still deep in it. How's that for you? - Oh my God, so I got out in November 12th, 2025. Reentry has been like, when I was inside Elvira, you know, all I could think about was my fucking freedom, right? All I could think about was like stepping outside of these walls, getting the fresh air, feeling the sunshine, being in nature, you know, because being around so much concrete, it's just like, man, I'm tired of concrete, I'm tired of cement. So when I got out, there was a huge sense of freaking awe and wonder by like the most little things, you know, being able to drive, being able to go out for a walk, when I want being able to eat whatever I want, being able to work, being able to go to school, seeing beautiful women everywhere and knowing that I could talk to them if I wanted to. However, those were just like, not that I'm out here and that those things have become normalized. I'm realizing that reentry, it's very challenging. I put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed in life, Elvira, and people, when I was inside, there was like, in my support systems and in my groups, everyone's talking about like, man, you ain't catching up, you rebuilding your life and you're starting all over again. And for me right now, I really struggle, Elvira, be careers. I know that that is a truth that I carry, right? But there's also this other truth that co-exist like, man, I do feel like I'm catching up. I do feel like I'm a little behind at times, I'm not gonna lie. I feel like I have all of these responsibilities. Because being inside, everything is taken care of for me, my structure, you have housing, you have food, you don't have bills, not that I'm out here, I got bills, I have expenses, I really gotta take care of myself. Sometimes that can be very challenging, a part of me sometimes wishes I still had that type of structure so I wouldn't have to worry about this shit and I could just focus on me, but not that I'm out here and I'm living a life, right? And I'm pursuing all of my goals. It's like I've created this timeline on myself to accomplish everything by a certain time and I do put a lot of pressure on myself to provide for myself, not only myself, but for my family because I wanna be able to give back to them. That's a part of my amends to my family and to all the people that I've formed. And it's a lot of work, it's a lot of work because there's a honeymoon phase. And for me, there's a huge honeymoon phase about getting out of prison, right? Like the first, however long it is, month to six months is beautiful, you know? But real life keeps in, responsibility's kick in. Like especially I pride myself as being a provider and as a real man and I really need to get it, you know? To take care of my family and loved ones and that's difficult. That's difficult because in this day and age I can't just go out and show drugs to make through a cash normal. I have to do everything legitimately and things take time out here and I really gotta be patient for myself. And like sometimes like everything I want seems farther and farther away. And I gotta check myself. I gotta check myself to be patient, you know? And that's difficult. And not only that, relationships. Ooh, that's a whole, that's a whole, I feel like we can have like a whole hour of long conversations about the difficulties of a relationship coming fresh out of prison and being in isolation. 'Cause I was in relationships in prison when I had to self-alright, but it is completely different. Being sheer in the present moment, having to be able to hold space for another woman, having to really understand and be empathetic and be loving towards another woman who is different from me, who has different values and different ideas about life. I didn't know how challenging that was gonna be as well. Yeah. Yeah, with being the most difficult part of your transition. Honestly, relationships. Being able to, yeah, relationships has been the most difficult part about my transition because not only, because in these early stages, right? What I'm, since I've been fresh out, I've changed a lot since I went inside. I'm no longer that little boy down at the prison like. And in coming out as a grown person, there's a lot of things that I'm still figuring out in my own life. What do I enjoy to do? What are actually my core values that really mean something to me, do I want to family? What do I want of, what do I want of, in the next five years from myself, from now? Like what are all my goals, right? And those are very, very heavy subjects. Those are very heavy things to think about. That probably require a lot of attention and a lot of time and a lot of effort, right? And I say all that to say, when you throw a relationship in with that, that is really complicated, you know? And that was a choice that those are choices that I made. But yeah, I feel like the relationship has stretched me. It's stretched my patience, it's stretched my tolerance. But at the same time, it's painful, but it's beautiful too. Because I have very strong moments, I have very, very strong moments of love and warmth and companionship with my partner. Yet when it's hard, whether it's hard, when we have arguments, when things are emotionally charged between us, it can get difficult sometimes in trying to juggle like dealing with my own emotions while handling all my responsibilities. Because sometimes it would be easier to just say, fuck it, but I know I can't say fuck it. - That's what's challenging. - Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that we have in cover that you would hope people know that you'd like to share with folks who are listening to this? - Oh wow. Yeah? I don't think people who haven't ever done time, who have loved ones who come out of incarceration, right? Please know that I'll speak for myself. Since I've came out of prison, like having my family around and having my girl around, it's, and having this desire to really make them proud and to really cultivate these connections and restart them, right? It's been challenging, but please know that for me, as an incarcerated, informally incarcerated individual coming out, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to really like, to not just some people get out and they need to survive. Some people come out with more support and they can actually like, well, how do I say it is? They're in a better position to succeed because they have more support, right? And if you fall under the category of having like, a lot of support in your life, that's wonderful because your transition is going to be easier. But please know not many people for coming out of prison have that type of fortune because unfortunately a lot of people coming out of prison get very, very long stretches, especially long-term offenders. This is the demographic I come from. And we need more resources to support these type of individuals because a lot of people who are locked up for long periods of time lose family members and they get out not having enough support. And these individuals are the ones who need extra resources and who need some more love in their lives because they come out, they come out and they don't know that they come out into these positions where life becomes very challenging because there's too much to adapt to in this life. Like imagine individuals who do 40 years in prison and they don't know how to use a cell phone and they don't know how to navigate technology and they don't have any more family. Those individuals, I believe that like coming from the Bay Area living in the area that we live in, there's no reason why they shouldn't have more support in their lives and they need that assistance. It's impure. So on that note, as we look towards later on this year, the grand opening of the healing home, how important would it be for something like the inside circle healing home for folks coming back out here? Oh my God, that would be fuck out, would be absolutely, Because I know disrespect to the tinnitus elders in inside shirt, but we got a lot of fucking old geez and inside shirt for that who come from an older demographic right who have been in prison for long stretches. These like our brothers and inside circle, if they have the opportunity to go to the human home, they need that support. They need that love, they need that guidance, especially in navigating the world that we're in today and having that type of space where they don't have to deal with other individuals where they can just like really take up, rather and have a sense of independence and safety from the healing home. That would be extremely impactful for them. They need it. They need that type of support and they need the opportunity to gain skills that the healing home would offer, especially in like the inside circle facilitation style because it's magical. It's a type of magic that could fulfill them and they would be able to give back to other people who need that type of healing because we have a certain source in our spirit. And I'm saying, speaking in a sense of we, right, when we go through the work, we have the ability to give that medicine back to other people and the healing home would only help foster that that that source of medicine in themselves even more. And I really hope the healing home gets opened ASAP so our brothers can come out to that. I really, really do because when it is I'm going to be there to guide them do whatever and support them do whatever they need. That's something that I'm going to take card in myself and that that's like something I'm truly going to honor. Yeah, they need it, man. I need it. I agree. I agree. So I got one more thing for you before we wrap up here, man. You know yourself get comfortable in your seat and in your body and follow this next breath back into your body and feel yourself begin to slip through time. So before you were hanging on the block. Before you got those seas on the star test and see young innocent five six year old Edwin, what piece of wisdom would you offer him knowing what you know today and having been through all you've been through. What does he need to hear? What does he need to know? Man, you are you I am you and you are enough. That's it. You are enough. That's magic right there. Man, it's been a pleasure man sitting with you and looking forward to more man. Keep doing what you're doing man and we won't continue to create spaces to help the world heal itself. Man, absolutely. Thank you for having me, man. And I can't wait to be a part of the journey to don't leave me out of the magic, man. Thank you folks for listening to another episode of the Inside Circle podcast. And if you like what you heard here and if you believe in the work that it is that we're doing in this world, this podcast is just a small sample of some of the work that we're doing in the world. Trying to get out and create spaces where folks can find their own personal freedom and it comes at a cost. It comes at a cost spiritually, it comes at a cost mentally, it comes at a cost emotionally. And the easy cost is financially. So if you've listened to us, you know, over the last couple of years and you've heard some things that have touched your heart. Become a member, support Inside Circle and it's very easy to become a member and support by becoming a recurring donor. So come on, jump on, become a part of the Inside Circle family and become a recurring donor. It doesn't take a whole lot but every little bit counts. Thank you. Thank you for joining us at the Inside Circle podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and leave us a comment on iTunes or wherever you listen. Follow us on Instagram and Inside_Circle and on Facebook, at Inside Circle org, all one word. Special thanks to the songwriter Rob Ricardo for his song "The Work." Join our mailing list and learn more about Inside Circle on our website at InsideCircle.org and remember your truth. We'll send you free.