Breaking: America and Israel at War with Iran

This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East, that's with Matt Rogers and Bo and Yang. This is Bo and Yang from Lost Culture East, that's with Matt Rogers and Bo and Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Kewpie Mayo for a minute now, Bo, and wow, the feedback we're getting! I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff! You're stopping us in the street going, I love Kewpie! And if you're thinking, wait, what is Kewpie? Uh, do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know it, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo. Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Kewpie is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles. Chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Kewpie it. So if you haven't tried Kewpie yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. All right, we are recording a bonus Pod Save the World episode because, as I'm sure listeners and viewers have seen, the United States and Israel are once again at war with Iran. So we're going to update you on everything we know as of Saturday afternoon. So this started at Saturday at 1:15 a.m. Eastern. Eastern time, which is 9:00 a.m. Tehran time. The U.S. and Israel launched airstrikes on Iran. The U.S. military is calling this Operation Epic Fury. It's so totally epic, Ben, that Trump launched the war from his country club in Florida. Targets so far include the supreme leader of Iran, his compound. The Israelis say the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, is dead and that Netanyahu was shown footage of his body. That's in news reports. Iran says that's false. We'll find out, I guess. But as we've noted, the supreme leader is 86. So he was about to. The regime changed himself, but his death would be a massive seismic event in Iranian history, given the role he plays in their system. It sounds like he was specifically targeted by the Israelis and not by U.S. forces and that they also targeted the supreme leader's son. But he may have survived. President Pesachian was reportedly targeted as well. Again, the Iranians say he's alive, but we'll find out that the timing of the strikes were reportedly based on intelligence about when senior regime officials would all be meeting Israel. Israel said they had about three gatherings of Iranian officials simultaneously. Israel said 200 jets bombed 500 targets. They did it during the daylight because they thought that would be a surprise. Israel said it killed the head of Iran's IRGC, the minister of defense, and much of other top military officials. And it seems like the U.S. is confirming that they agreed that about five to ten top Iranian leaders are now dead. The U.S. said they hit 900 targets in the first 12 hours. They were focused on military sites, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard. Corps command and control facilities, air defense targets, missiles, drone sites, military airfields. Iranian state TV says that one airstrike hit a girls elementary school and killed 85 people. Obviously, we can't confirm that. But CENTCOM says they're looking into those reports. So Iran so far has responded by firing missiles and drones at Israel. Sounds like they fired off about 300 of them. They fired at U.S. bases. They fired at civilian targets as well in the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Jordan. Most of these Iranian. Missiles and drones seem to have been taken out by air defense systems. But there are some pretty scary videos out there on social media of either Iranian ballistic missiles or Iranian drones striking targets, including civilian targets like a high rise building in Bahrain or a hotel in Dubai. On Saturday, Iran's Revolutionary Guard announced that, quote, no ship is allowed to pass the Strait of Hormuz. So they're saying they're going to close the Strait of Hormuz. We'll see if Iran can deliver on that promise. But if they are able to, the economic impact would be massive every day, about 20 million barrels of oil. And if they're able to, the economic impact would be massive every day, about 20 million barrels of oil pass through the Strait of Hormuz. It's about one fifth of the world's supply. Then there's other shipping. Trump released a video statement about all of this this morning in it. Trump kind of played all the hit spin when it comes to U.S.-Iran tensions. He talked about the U.S. embassy personnel being held hostage in 1979, talked about the 1983 Marine Barracks bombing. He claimed that Iran was involved in the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000, which is just not true. Someone should tell Al-Qaeda that. I think they take credit. He also once again claimed that Iran will soon be able to reach the U.S. with its ballistic missiles, which, again, is a lie. Here's an excerpt of Trump. I think this is the section of the speech that seemed to most specifically lay out the goals of this conflict. Let's watch. There's always been the policy of the United States, in particular my administration, that this terrorist regime can never have a nuclear weapon. We sought repeatedly to make a deal. We tried. They wanted to do it. They didn't want to do it. Again, they wanted to do it. They didn't know what was happening. They just wanted to practice evil. We are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. It will be totally, again, obliterated. We are going to annihilate their Navy. We are going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or the world. The lives of courageous American heroes may be lost and we may have casualties. We are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missiles. hard to watch. No one seems to remember the Iraq war be learning the lessons. So please subscribe to pod, save the world. Ben, I also noticed that, that, that Reuters had a story that the CIA assessed before the strikes that even if Iran's supreme leader were killed in the operation, he would likely just be replaced by hardline figures in the IRGC. So like, again, like the end goal is not clear. And I noticed this morning, again, like Trump has been lying about Iran's nuclear program and ballistic missile programs. Um, Gideon Saar, Israel's foreign minister said that this military action was urgently needed because quote delay would have allowed the Iranian regime to reach a level of immunity for its nuclear program, as well as to engage in the mass production of long range ballistic missiles. But that's just, it's false. That is absolutely a lie. Like no expert, no one I've seen has suggested that Iran was on the cusp of like revamping its nuclear program. Yeah. I mean, the war is illegal domestically and internationally. The war is unnecessary as a matter of timing. The threats that they're pointing to, um, do nothing to explain. I mean, the fact that in that litany that Trump gave, he was talking about roadside bombs in Iraq 10 years ago. Is that a reason to go to war now? I mean, obviously those are terrible things that happen, but, but it's an absurd reason to launch a war now. The only new pretext they developed is this ICBM threat, which is totally false. Iran has long had an ICBM program. It cannot hit the United States with an ICBM, is nowhere near being able to do that and doesn't have a nuclear weapon. Uh, and so it, it matters that this is being done under false pretenses with very little public support and no legal basis because it's just, it's not a very strong footing to take the country into a war of regime change in a country over, over 90 million people. Now we know Israel wants this. I mean, Bibi Netanyahu has been pushing for this for a very long time. His whole life. Yeah. And he finally got this kind of window with Trump because he sees that Trump is the guy that is willing to ignore Congress and public opinion. Trump's the guy who frankly has done what Bibi Netanyahu has done. I was wanting to do before, whether I was moving the U S embassy to Jerusalem or the 12 day war. And one thing that I was thinking about Tommy is it, it doesn't matter how many days he bombs Iran. We are in a forever war with Iran. One way to think about this is the 12 day war was not a 12 day war. Like this is still part of the war. You know, once you start bombing a country, like this is the same war as the 12 day war that's happening. Just because you periodically stop bombing doesn't mean you're not in a forever war. And so Trump can spin it however he wants to MAGA supporters from, you know, Tucker Carlson to, you know, his own vice president who have the political identities based on opposing this. But the reality is that we are in this and the world is going to see, you know, whatever happens in Iran next, they're going to see as the responsibility of the United States and Donald Trump personally. Uh, and, and, and as we talked about, whether it's civil conflict, refugee flows into other countries, uh, major energy disruptions in the Straits of Hormuz, you know, periods of calm followed by periods of dramatic violence. I think this could go all kinds of ways. But the one thing we know is that Iran is now added to that list of forever wars. And it's the biggest country yet that we've tried to do this in, and we're doing it with no boots on the ground. And we're doing it in conjunction with Israel, which we've also never done. We've never done a regime change war, like literally with the Israelis. Um, so that is going to create impressions in the world too. Um, and, and I just think, you know, there's no real discussion of this by Trump. Right now, the midterms are the biggest story in American politics, but however they go, the democratic party is going to have to do some serious soul searching. Join us Washington, DC, November 5th through 7th, the second annual crooked con. It's going to be the positive America hosts and some of the smartest people in politics. We're going to try to answer some big questions, stuff like if we won, how did we win? If we lost, how could we possibly have lost? And with 2028 around the corner, where do we go from here? If you believe in democracy, community, and fighting for the future, now's the time to grab your tickets to crooked con at 2026, head to crooked con.com to get your tickets now. And if you're interested in more, go to crookedcon.com to get your tickets. in the Iranian kit, and the question is, essentially, do they try to kind of empty the magazine here in the early days, or do they kind of periodically do these kind of waves of strikes and try to make this war hurt for people in Israel and the United States and the region over time? I agree with you. It's interesting. There are strikes on the Gulf countries, and they hit just about every one except Oman, and that was interesting. Oman was the one that was not hit. Some of them were just strikes at US military facilities, and that makes sense, and no surprise. These other strikes that include drone attacks, as you referenced, on places like Dubai and Bahrain, it does seem like that the message they're trying to send is, so long as we are under attack, you are not secure. And yes, they're taking the risk that certainly the Gulf governments now will probably feel potentially more inclined to allow the US to use it. But I think it's a good thing that they're taking the risk. I think it's a good thing that they're taking the risk. I think it's a good thing that they're going to use bases to attack Iran. Thus far, a lot of the Gulf countries have opted out of that, or maybe even participate themselves. But you also make the point that the US doing this in conjunction with Israel, the publics in these countries will surely be mad at Iran for what they're doing, but also I think will blame Israel, who there's no love for in the region, as well as the United States for launching this war. And essentially the sense that the US and Iran are in chaos in the region, you know, that whether it's the strikes in Lebanon or Syria or Yemen or now Iran, that there's this kind of moving wrecking ball of chaos that is harming people. And we should be, you know, that school, I guarantee you the number one image of the war being consumed around the world. Well, if not number one, it's certainly up there is the image of those parents screaming because they lost their children in that school. It's a horrifying video. And so look, I now, so in a weird way, Iran is kind of reinforcing the chaos strategy. You know, it's like, see, look what's happening. We have no choice, but to kind of pour gasoline on this fire that was set. And again, it's going to make them a lot of enemies. But, but I think that their, their view is like, we have to set as many fires as we can to make this war feel as uncomfortable for people as we can. But to me, the ultimate future of the war will be determined inside of Iran, inside the politics of Iran. And that we don't know how that's going to play out at all. Yeah. It does seem like they've decided they have to up the cost. I mean, anyone who was saying that in advance was right. So Ben, I know like nobody in the United States cares about hypocrisy or anymore, or, or, you know, lies, but we should just point out that Trump explicitly ran against regime change wars and wars in the middle East in particular. In 2011, he had this to say about a war with Iran and Obama. Let's watch. Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak. And he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected and as sure as you're sitting there is to start a war with Iran. In August of 2013, Trump tweeted, quote, the president must get congressional approval before attacking Syria. Big mistake. If he does not, uh, JD Vance wrote an op-ed with a headline in the wall street journal. This was from, uh, uh, January, 2023 Trump's best foreign policy, not starting any wars. He asked my support in 2024, because I know he won't recklessly send Americans to fight overseas. Uh, uh, Tulsi Gabbard used to sell Ben no war with Iran t-shirts. Uh, and now the, just to, just to, you know, make sure she was fully humiliated. Um, there's images of her sitting in the situation room, watching the war unfold at like the kids table hosted by JD Vance while Trump's down at Mar-a-Lago, uh, David Sachs, who is not really relevant to this debate, but as someone we personally find, uh, loathsome, uh, tweeted in March of last year, what did removing Saddam Gaddafi Assad get us? They asked civil war genocide. The rule for regime change operations in the middle East is they don't flip a country from bad to good. They flip a country from bad to worse. Pretty good point there from, uh, David Sachs. I like, again, the, the war has started. Um, it is what it is, but I do think it is worth pointing out how much Trump lied and how we ran against this because maybe parts of MAGA will go along with anything he does and says, I understand that, but a significant percentage will not. They think this is a bad idea because they don't know what's going on. They don't want to see American service members killed. They don't want to spend the money. They feel like we are getting led around on our foreign policy by NetYahu and the Israeli government. And those are things that will be harmful to Trump politically. Yeah. I mean, I, I, this is going to be a real cleavage inside of his coalition, right? I mean, this is, again, it's not a secondary issue for a lot of people, you know, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon. I mean, really the leading lights, uh, such as they are, uh, of MAGA. Um, and, and, and, and look, what's amazing about that one of Trump's most effective arguments was this one against ending forever wars. It was central to his rise, right? He, he, when he dismantled Jeb Bush on the debate stage in 2015 over Iraq, no other Republican would, that's when he moved to the front of the pack. Like he would not be president without his kind of repeated opposition to this idea forever wars in the first term too. He was much more careful about, you know, the United States getting a complex. He in just the first 13 months of his second term. And he's proving to be not the kind of disruptive corrective to American imperialism and wars of aggression and forever wars. If anything, he's proving to be the Uber manifestation of it. I mean, even these targets he's going after are kind of the, the old in the closet, you know, targets of, of hardline Republicans, like Lindsey Graham, Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, you know, we, we, this is, this is all the ancient history in the Republican hawk cupboard is coming out and people know that, you know, and nobody asked for this. And, and tell me, I'd say just to take another point that doesn't get discussed much the price tag for this thing. I was talking to, I was, well, I was talking to somebody today who was suggesting to me that if it, if it's just even like a few weeks, tens of billions, right? This massive amount of military force moving and deploying into the middle East. And then all these things are happening. I mean, do Americans want us to be spending tens of billions of dollars to aggrandize Donald Trump to go along with BB Netanyahu's obsession with, you know, killing the Supreme leader and moving the Iranian regime? No, they don't. And look, normally I kind of roll my eyes. And when you hear from like military people that were our stockpiles are running lower, this or that, because like, you know, look, we have a lot of weapons, but experts will tell you that we really are running seriously low on interceptor missiles for missile defenses. And so, you know, we're not going to be able to do that. We're running low on the Tomahawk missiles, the T-LAMs. If there is a war with China, God forbid, or if we need to respond to them taking Taiwan, like we will be dangerously low on munitions. The Chinese are happy about this. And yes, Trump told us he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. And instead he has launched two regime change wars in the first two months of 2026. Like I, we have to be able to prosecute that case, Ben, which I think brings us to the democratic party's response so far. So like candidly, most responses I've seen have been weak. There's some exceptions that we should talk about. They have been focused on the process and Trump's obligation to come to Congress for a vote before going to war, which of course is true, but it's like not my main issue with going to war with Ron. Some Democrats have focused on Trump, you know, not explaining his strategy or making the case again. I agree with them, but not the issue. So like what I just want to see from Democrats is go at the heart of why this is a bad idea. I want them to say there is no urgent threat from Iran's nuclear or ballistic missile program to the United States. Talk about how regime change wars have ended disastrously, both for the U S for the countries we launched them in for the rest of the world. Look at the migration crisis in Europe. Like Trump has started something he cannot control. It doesn't matter what he tells you. And he now owns the consequences. And then there's just the fact that like Americans don't want this. There was a YouGov poll very recently, like earlier this month that asked, do you support or oppose the U S using military force to attack Iran? 27% of 99% were somewhat or strongly opposed that include 54% of independents who opposed and 19% of Republicans who opposed the war. So keep making that case, right? Like Trump ran against this. Democrats have to make that argument. Like there's a war powers vote next week, which again, good on Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey for pushing this, but it's a little late guys. You know, this is what you and I were complaining about last week. We didn't yell that by people on Twitter, but you know, it's like now is not the time for, you know, long statements that are four paragraphs of throat clearing about how bad the war is. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good before we get to the heart of the matter, which is this being a catastrophically bad idea. So I don't know what's, what's your advice for Democrats who might be figuring out what to say? Well, first of all, you're right. Cause we saw this build up for weeks, uh, good on Ro Khanna for, uh, tabling this resolution, but to the people who are telling us, Oh, we're working it through the process. Well, like you just proved the point that if you really cared about this thing, you know, you would have fought like hell to get a vote on this before Trump actually bombed the country. It kind of speaks to how Congress has been absent on this thing that they're going to have vote after. I want to pick out the, some of the people who've been good and I'm not going to be able to, you know, name check everybody, but like Tim Kaine, uh, and, and Chris Van Hollen in the Senate, um, and long-term consistent, both of them about war powers, Kaine in particular. Yeah. Yeah. Criticize Democrats, criticize the Republicans. Yep. And not just war powers though. He, you know, it, you know, as diverse people as Tim Kaine, Chris Van Hollen and AOC like had different components where they're like, it's illegal. It's unnecessary. They, lied about the reasons to do it, and it ignores the lessons of history of regime change wars in the Middle East. So that's an objection on policy, process, history, all of it, right? That's the kind of case you can make. Jason Crow, I think, made a very powerful case as a veteran where he's like, not only is this not what the American people want, this doesn't lower prices, but time and again, working class people have been screwed because they have to foot the bill for these wars by fighting in them or paying the taxes for them. So there's a kind of populist message that I think is important. It's not just like politics. It's true. It is fundamentally true. And so I think no defensiveness, the process is one piece of a much bigger picture here as to why this is wrong. And I think Democrats have to be willing to make that argument. It's interesting to me, Tommy, that you mentioned that the polls fluctuate to 70% to 80% of Americans. Are opposed to this. You also saw a public opinion poll for the first time the other day that more Americans sympathize with Palestinians than Israelis. And that is an overwhelming majority among Democrats. And let's just name the fact that oftentimes the people who seem the most reluctant to oppose this war are those Democrats who are most supportive of Israel and Congress. And so we should just not be afraid to talk about the fact that this is part of the dynamic here, because there's a. There's a very clear correlation between people who take AIPAC money and who have been supportive of Bibi Netanyahu in the past, who are going to either vote no on that resolution or have been pretty teepid about this. And look, Donald Trump, people including us gave him credit for getting tough with Netanyahu sometimes, but that's out the window now. He just went to war in part because Bibi Netanyahu wanted him to. So don't ever tell me again about how Donald Trump uses this leverage. The Democratic Party, it can be the anti-war party, it can be the party that wants to change a dysfunctional relationship with Israel, change a dysfunctional approach to the Middle East, that learned the lessons of history, and that is saying it's time to stop spending money on this stuff and start investing in the things that Americans actually want us to be doing. And I also saw the Israelis are using the occasion of this war to once again cut off aid into Gaza. So there's just so many bad things happening right now. Right now, the midterms are the biggest story in American politics, but however they go, the Democratic Party is going to have to do some serious soul-searching. Join us, Washington, D.C., November 5th through 7th at the second annual CrookedCon. We're going to try to answer some big questions, stuff like, if we won, how did we win? And with 28 Around the Corner, where do we go from here? If you believe in democracy, community, and fighting for the future, now's the time to grab your tickets to CrookedCon 2026. Head to CrookedCon.com to get your tickets now. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Tom Thumb. It's time to stock up and save now through October 27th. Get $10 off when you spend $25 or more on participating items. Just look for participating items on CrookedCon.com. Tags to earn on eligible items from brands like Nestle, Quaker, Propel, Gatorade, Pepsi, Poppy, and Utz. Clip once and save through October 27th every time you shop. Grab these hot deals before they're gone. Save on brands you trust. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. We're going to try to answer some big questions. Stuff like, if we won, how did we win? Just look for participating item tags to earn on eligible items from brands like Nutella, Ferrero Rocher, Alshine, Haagen-Dazs, Swanson, Vitamin Water, Starbucks, Quaker, and Angel Soft. Restrictions apply. Ben, let's talk about the international reaction before we kind of have any concluding thoughts. There's a big roundup of people, kind of countries and leaders responding. Like the UN Secretary General condemned the attack. The Canadians were like full-throated in their support. Mark Carney was full-throated in his support. So were the Australians. Anthony Albanese was like fully in support of what Trump was doing. Prime Minister Keir Starmer over in the UK, notably said that the UK has refused to participate in the attack, which I think has made a lot of headlines in the UK. But like, I don't know, his tone, but he condemned the Iranians primarily for responding. And then there was a joint statement with UK, Germany, and France that was mostly about the Iranian response. The Turks called on both sides to deescalate. China called on Iran's sovereignty to be respected. Russia, you know, denounced the attack in all the ways you'd expect. It's kind of a jumbled mess. Like, no one seems sort of willing or able to really stand up to Trump in this moment. But did anything jump out at you? And in particular, like, what the fuck do you make of the Canadians and the Australians being like so for this? So those are the ones that jumped out to me. And look, you're right. I think privately, you get these leaders in a room and they did not want this to happen because they're aware of all the consequences. I mean, if the Europeans who, you know, I don't even know, you can read their statements over and over again and have no idea what the position is. You know, the EU or Emmanuel Macron, like, it's kind of word salads, you know, about how bad the Iranians are, but we need to have to have consultations and we're concerned. But, you know, they're the ones, by the way, who could end up getting refugees from this if it goes really south. But to me, what stood out, you know, Mark Carney, who we, you know, praised a lot and has gotten a lot of praise, he stood up at Davos and said that the international order was broken because it only worked for the powerful countries. And therefore, the middle powers had to have their own views. And I think what's really disappointing about his statement is, I guess he was only talking about trade. I guess we don't care if we, you know, the United States just goes around bombing countries with impunity and Israel goes around much more than the United States, even bombing countries with impunity. You know, so I look, why not stand up to Trump on this one? Like, what is the purpose of, and he doesn't even have to be full-throated in opposition, but that statement, you know, tilted towards support, as did Albanese. I don't know. I was a little disappointed in that because it's like everything else. Like, if Trump feels like he can do these things and, you know, the democratic world is going to kind of fall into line or at least kind of be pretty passive about it, it just lowers the bar on him doing it. And that's the thing is, he could be doing this again and again, right? In Iran, he could kind of keep bombing again and again. We could do this in Cuba. You know, Greenland could come back in the picture, Panama, like all these other places. And so you have to be thinking ahead. To creating some guardrails around what Trump is doing. Yeah. And look, you and I recorded an episode yesterday about how Afghanistan and Pakistan went, are at war. You know, the Pakistani said we are an open war, full-throated war with Afghanistan. There are millions of people who, you know, are getting pushed across either border. Iran shares a big border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. If Iran descends into civil war or chaos, as you said earlier, like a lot of people will be harmed. We'll become refugees. We'll get pushed out of the country. There could be massive refugee flows. It's just, you know, like this is like, we're like minute one of the game here. And it seems like Trump is already trying to spike the ball with all these phone calls and, you know, bragging to press and et cetera. But I don't know. So look, I guess we'll wait and see if the Supreme leader is really dead. We'll wait and see who will take his place. If that is the case, any other things you're watching in the next kind of 12, 24 hours? Well, so at this, Supreme leader's dead. I would definitely, how is, how is that announced? Who announces it? Is there a succession plan? I mean, I think we'll get a pretty quick understanding of the kind of political strategy and dynamic inside the Iranian leadership. So I think that's an important thing to watch. Do Iranians heed Trump's call to kind of rise up and, you know, start to create like a civil conflict essentially, you know, so that there are clashes in the streets, just like there are clashes in the air. Yeah. I love when the American leaders in Netanyahu, call on mostly unarmed Iranians to rise up and fight their military and that, that will end well for them, I'm sure, but sorry, continue. No, that, yeah, it, when Netanyahu in particular, it's like, let me speak directly to the Iranian people, you know, the, the separate, you know, in the Kurdish areas and the Baluk areas of Iran, I get, you know, a lot of people may not follow this, but there are kind of longstanding separatist movements in those regions. Do they start to try to rise up, which could threaten the territorial integrity? agri-diver on. So there's a lot to watch. I think that I want to just echo something you said said Tommy, like we tend to consume these things in news cycles. And even Trump loves that 12 day war, right? Like this is going to play out for years, you know, and it's going to look terrible at some times and may look fine at other times. But like we are in, you could argue that we are in this war now because we had a coup that we sponsored in 1953 in Iran. That looked great on the first day too. And like, look where we are now. And so we just have to recognize this is going to unfold like over a long period of time. Yeah. And this thing might end up feeling cost free to Americans again, because no U.S. service members are hurt or killed. I pray to God that no U.S. service members are hurt or killed or Americans abroad, but there is already an enormous cost to the Iranian people. Like hundreds are probably dead or wounded already. I mean, this story about the strike on a girl's school is horrific. Iran is a country that was dealing with an economic crisis. Tehran is a place where they're about to run out of water because of climate change. And other mismanagement and other reasons. So like it's a population that has suffered enormously. There was this massive crackdown on protesters, you know, a couple of months back, which Trump is sort of cynically making part of his messaging about why he had to bomb them again. Like, again, I'm sure there are some Iranians who are in the streets who hate the regime, who will be happy that the Supreme leader has taken out and like just sort of hope for something better. I just, my fear with all of this, having been through Iraq and Afghanistan and the Arab spring and just a lot of kind of turmoil is that. That the guys with the guns tend to end up on top. And in this case, the guys with the guns aren't much better than, you know, the Ayatollah and the Supreme leader and the religious figures who have been in charge of Iran since, you know, 1979 or, you know, 89, I think in terms of Khamenei's tenure. Yeah. I mean, I think you probably know, Tommy, two people in the Iranian diaspora who are very supportive of this military intervention. I understand like the anger and trauma that people feel in the diaspora. I just sincerely believe that the United States and Israel bombing Iran to bring about regime change, you know, creates more risks, frankly, than it does opportunities. And principally, the reason I believe that is to your point, when I think of the places where there've been, you know, regime change, let's expand it beyond even US wars to Arab spring, right? Afghanistan, Iraq. Egypt, Libya, Yemen. I'm leaving some out. But in every case, Sudan, where the people did rise up, in every case, you either had like a civil war that was hugely destabilizing and disruptive and a loss of life, or you had the guys with guns come back and be even more repressive, right? Like the Egyptian government that emerged was more repressive even than the Egyptian government that emerged. Right. And so that's why we sincerely, like, just don't think this is the right way. It's not out of any, you know, no love for this regime. It's been horrible for the Iranian people. But I think we just have to learn from history. And I just want to come back to what you mentioned it, Tommy. So I don't know if you have a final thought on this. The media coverage, some of it's very good, but some of it is just, what are we doing here, people? Like, you had people credibly, referring to the Israeli statement that this was like a preemptive strike, like preemptive. I know, I know. Preemptive what? What? What are we preempting? That's Iraq war language. It's almost like they were trolling the US media. I know. And just being a stenographer for this fucking bullshit. Especially when we were told the nuclear infrastructure was, quote unquote, totally and completely obliterated in June of last year. The president of the United States said that. It's just like, come on, guys. Just be a little more credulous of anything this guy says or that Netanyahu says. All right. Well, look, thank you guys for watching or listening to this. Please subscribe to Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts or here on YouTube. I don't know if we'll be back tomorrow, but we'll be watching this very closely. We'll be covering this all week long. So we appreciate you guys watching and sharing this and let us know what else you want to hear. And we appreciate it. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. 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