Breaking: America and Israel at War with Iran

You know when you try a new food and suddenly it's like, wait, how did I not know about this? It's Ryan Seacrest here. That is the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. I'm cooking a lot more at home and I sure did. It's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it on TikTok. So what makes it different? Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Kewpie only uses egg yolks, giving it this rich umami flavor, which I love. It's smoother, deeper, almost buttery. And people put it on everything. You can put it on egg sandwiches, fries, burgers, even pizza crust. Once you notice Kewpie, you'll start seeing it everywhere. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really care about flavor use it. Food lovers use it. Never tried it? Grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. You'll love its rich, bold flavor. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. That's Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise. All right, we're recording a bonus Pod Save the World episode because as I'm sure listeners and viewers have seen, the United States and Israel are once again at war with Iran. So we're going to update you on everything we know as of Saturday afternoon. So this started at Saturday at 1.15 a.m. Eastern time, which is 9 a.m. Tehran time. The U.S. and Israel launched airstrikes on Iran. The U.S. military is calling this Operation Epic Fury. It's so totally epic, Ben, that Trump launched the war from his country club in Florida. Targets so far include the supreme leader of Iran, his compound. The Israelis say the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, is dead and that Netanyahu was shown footage of his body. That's in news reports. Iran says that's false. We'll find out, I guess. But as we've noted, the supreme leader is 86. So he was about to regime change himself, but his death would be a mass. It sounds like he was specifically targeted by the Israelis and not by U.S. forces and that they also targeted the supreme leader's son, but he may have survived. President Pazeshkian was reportedly targeted as well. Again, the Iranians say he's alive, but we'll find out. The timing of the strikes were reportedly based on intelligence about when senior regime officials would all be meeting. Israel said they had about three gatherings of Iranian officials simultaneously Israel said 200 jets bombed 500 targets. They did it during the daylight because they thought that would be a surprise. Israel said it killed the head of Iran's IRGC, the minister of defense and much of other top military officials. And it seems like the U.S. is confirming that they agreed that about five to 10 top Iranian leaders are now dead. The U.S. said they hit 900 targets in the first 12 hours. They were focused on military sites, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps command and control facilities, air defense targets, and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps command and control facilities, and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps command and control facilities. There are some pretty scary videos out there on social media of either Iranian ballistic missiles or Iranian drones striking targets, including civilian targets like a high-rise building in Bahrain or a hotel in Dubai. On Saturday, Iran's Revolutionary Guard announced that, quote, no ship is allowed to pass the Strait of Hormuz. So they're saying they're going to close the Strait of Hormuz. We'll see if Iran can deliver on that promise, but if they are able to, the economic impact would be massive. Every day, about 20 million barrels of oil pass through the Strait of Hormuz. It's about one-fifth of the world's supply. Then there's other shipping. Trump released a video statement about all of this this morning. In it, Trump kind of played all the hit-spin when it comes to U.S.-Iran tensions. He talked about the U.S. embassy personnel being held hostage in 1979. He talked about the 1983 Marine Barracks bombing. He claimed that Iran was involved in the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000, which is just not true. Someone should tell Al-Qaeda that. I think they take credit. He also once again claimed that Iran will soon be able to reach the U.S. with its ballistic missiles, which again is a lie. Here's an excerpt of Trump. I think, this is the section of the speech that seemed to most specifically lay out the goals of this conflict. Let's watch. There's always been the policy of the United States, in particular, my administration, that this terrorist regime can never have a nuclear weapon. We sought repeatedly to make a deal. We tried. They wanted to do it. They didn't want to do it. Again, they wanted to do it. They didn't know what was happening. They just wanted to practice evil. We are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. It will be totally, again, obliterated. We are going to annihilate their Navy. We are going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or the world. The lives of courageous American heroes may be lost, and we may have casualties. That often happens in war. To the members of the United States, we are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. To the members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, the armed forces, and all of the police, I say tonight that you must lay down your weapons and have complete immunity, or, in the alternative, face certain death. Finally, to the great proud people of Iran, I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand. When we are finished, take over your government. It will be yours to take. This will be probably your only chance. For many years you have asked for America's help, but you never got it. No president was willing to do what I am willing to do tonight. Now you have a president who is giving you what you want. So let's see how you respond. This is the moment for action. Do not let it pass. Okay, so Ben, let's pause there. Just get your reaction, you know, sort of what you've seen so far in sort of events in the world and also Trump's speech. What do you make of it? Yeah, it's always reassuring to have a president launch an illegal and unnecessary war wearing a baseball cap in the middle of the night at Mar-a-Lago, but putting that aside for the moment. I think the headline here is that this is the regime change war, and we've walked up to this precipice with Trump like several times, and each time he took a more limited action, whether it was assassinating Qasem Soleimani or whether it was the 12-day war when, you know, he bombed nuclear sites principally. But this is clearly based on rhetoric and targets, like an effort to change the Iranian regime. Now, the problem with that, though, is that even though that's clear, nothing is clear about what the end game is, right? Even if the Supreme Leader is killed, the Iranian regime is a very deep regime. He mentioned the IRGC, the police, and the military. That's millions of people who are under arms in the Iranian regime. And so whether this devolves into civil conflict and chaos or whether some IRGC-led regime emerges, we have no greater clarity today than we did before this began about how the U.S. sees this thing ending. And we do see already some of the consequences that could come from this war. We're only one day in, but we've already seen Iran, unlike last time where they showed some pretty calibrated restraint, it seems like they're firing missiles in all directions. They're trying to exact a cost on the Gulf countries for hosting U.S. bases or just to kind of create a sense that, if we burn, you burn too. They're launching missiles at not just bases, at Israel as well. And so we're seeing the beginning of what could be a kind of regionalization of this conflict. And so this is a very dangerous moment. And I have no reassurance from Trump or anybody around him that there's a plan for how to land this plane beyond we're going to go in there and destroy as much of this regime as we can before it becomes almost politically unsustainable for us to be bombing this country. Then we'll stop and, oh, you know, you Iranians rise up. But if those Iranians are massacred again, if it turns into a civil war, there's no plan B. Yeah. I mean, it just, it's not clear to me that Trump realizes that he started something that he's not able to stop because Trump is doing a round of interviews. He's talked to like NBC, Axios, a bunch of other outlets. He told Axios he has several off ramps to end the conflict. One of the quotes was, "I can go long and take over the whole thing or end it in two or three days until I see you in a few years if you start rebuilding. In any case, it will take them several years to recover from this attack." And it's like, I mean, first of all, no, you can't take over the entire country unless you send in troops to occupy the country. And if that's on the table, you should probably tell us. Second, we don't know really if Trump is actually thinking about off ramps or if Barack reviewed in this five minute call was like, "Hey, what's your off ramp?" And he was like, "I got a bunch of them." Trump also told Axios that he asked his team to compile every Iranian linked attack around the world in the last 25 years. And clearly that was reflected in the speech he made. But if you have to do that, it seems like you're really struggling to justify why this has to happen now. And I think all of that just speaks to your point, which is like, we have no idea what's going to happen next. This could end quickly or this could go on for a long time. And by the way, thank you for watching this episode of Pod Save the World. Please subscribe on wherever you get podcasts or on YouTube, because we're going to be covering this story really, really closely. And we're not going to mindlessly regurgitate fucking neocon talking points the way a lot of other news outlets are this morning. It's very hard to watch. No one's going to remember the Iraq war or be learning the lessons. So please subscribe to Pod Save the World. that that that reuters had a story that the cia assessed before the strikes that even if iran's supreme leader were killed in the operation he would likely just be replaced by hardline figures in the irgc so like again like the end goal is not clear and i noticed this morning again like trump has been lying about iran's nuclear program and ballistic missile programs um gideon saar israel's foreign minister said that this military action was urgently needed because quote delay would have allowed the iranian regime to reach a level of immunity for its nuclear program as well as to engage in the mass production of long-range ballistic missiles but that's just it's false that is absolutely a lie like no expert no one i've seen has suggested that iran was on the cusp of like revamping its nuclear program yeah i mean the war is illegal domestically internationally the war is unnecessary as a matter of timing the threats that they're pointing to um do nothing to explain i mean the fact that in that you know litany that trump gave he was talking about roadside bombs in iraq 10 years ago is that a reason to go to war now i mean obviously those are terrible things that happen but but it's an absurd reason to launch a war now the only new pretext they developed is this icbm threat which is totally false iran has long had an icbm program it cannot hit the united states with an icbm is nowhere near being able to do that and doesn't have a nuclear weapon and so it matters that this is being done under false pretenses with very little public support and no legal basis because it's just it's not a very strong footing to take the country into a war of regime change in a country over over 90 million people now we know israel wants this i mean bibi nanyao has been pushing for this for a very long time yeah and he finally got this kind of window with trump because he sees that trump is the guy that is willing to ignore congress in public opinion trump's a guy who frankly has done what bibi nanyao has wanted to do before whether i was moving the u.s embassy to jerusalem or the 12-day war and one thing that i was thinking about tommy is that it doesn't matter how many days he bombs iran we are in a forever war with iran one way to think about this is the 12-day war was not a 12-day war like this is still part of the war you know once you start bombing a country like this is the same war as the 12-day war that's happening just because you periodically stop bombing doesn't mean you're not in a forever war and so trump can spin it however he wants to maga supporters from you know tucker carlson to you know his own vice president who have the political identities based on opposing this but the reality is that we are in this and the world is going to see you know whatever happens in iran next they're going to see as the responsibility of the united states and donald trump personally uh and and and as we talked about whether it's civil conflict refugee flows into other countries uh major energy disruptions in the straits of formuz you know periods of calm followed by periods of dramatic violence i mean this could go all kinds of ways but the one thing we know is that iran is now added to that list of forever wars and it's the biggest country yet that we've tried to do this in and we're doing it with no boots on the ground and we're doing it in conjunction with israel which we've also never done we've never done a regime change world like literally with the israelis um so that is going to create impressions in the world too and i just think you know there's no real discussion of this by trump hello beautiful i'm amy eric founder of madison reed a hair color company i named after my daughter our prestige salon quality hair color delivers gorgeous multi-dimensional color and 100 great coverage color at home or visit one of our 95 plus hair color bars nationwide and let our licensed pros do it for you visit madison-reed.com today and join more than 5 million women who've made the switch confident bold and confident and we'll see you next time on madison-reed.com that's the power of madison reed you know when you try a new food and suddenly it's like wait how did i not know about this it's ryan seacrest here that is the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try cupi mayo i'm cooking a lot more at home and i sure did it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle you've probably seen it on tiktok so what makes it different most mayonnaise uses whole eggs cupi only uses egg yolks giving it this rich umami flavor which i love it's smoother deeper almost buttery and people put it on everything you can put on egg sandwiches fries burgers even pizza crust once you notice cupi you'll start seeing it everywhere chefs use it restaurants use it people who really care about flavor use it food lovers use it never tried it grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store put it on just about anything then you'll understand you'll love its rich bold flavor cupi the original japanese mayonnaise that's cupi mayo with the red cap next time you're at the store put it on just about cupi the original japanese mayonnaise hello beautiful i'm amy eric founder of madison reed a hair color company i named after my daughter i started madison reed because i believed women deserve better better ingredients better results and the freedom to color on your terms color at home with our permanent hair color kit in less time and for less than a typical salon it's a salon in a box for rich dimensional color and 100 percent gray coverage try our 10-minute root touch-up kit for a permanent root refresh or our hair and brow mascara to cover stray grays on the go or visit one of our 95 hair color bars nationwide to let our licensed pros color your hair for you join the more than 5 million women who have switched to our award-winning color visit madison-reed.com and use code podcast 20 for 20 off your first order or service you know when you try a new food and suddenly it's like wait how did i not know about this it's ryan seacrest here that is the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try cupi mayo i'm cooking a lot more at home and i sure did it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle you've probably seen it on tiktok so what makes it different most mayonnaise uses whole eggs cupi only uses egg yolks giving it this rich umami flavor which i love it's smoother deeper almost buttery and people put it on everything you can put on egg sandwiches fries burgers even pizza crust once you notice cupi you'll start seeing it everywhere chefs use it restaurants use it people who really care about flavor use it food lovers use it never tried it grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store put it on just about anything then you'll understand you'll love its rich bold flavor cupi the original japanese mayonnaise that's cupi the original japanese mayonnaise and so you know like and to that point there will absolutely be iranians i think who are happy about the supreme leader being dead or the regime toppling and i'm sure the u.s and israel will amplify those voices especially on people in cities people in tehran who understandably hate the regime but we have no idea what the majority of the iranian people think especially people in rural areas we don't know how they'll react we don't know what's going to come next if the supreme leader is in fact dead and there's a massive power vacuum and potential for civil war another problem so i mean it just feels like yeah this is all ahead of us um abbas iraqi iran's foreign minister was on nbc news this morning here's a little piece of what he had to say then you cannot do regime change while millions of people are supporting these so-called regime look in the past 47 years the united states has tried everything from coup from uh sanctions of war by saddam hussein supported by by the united states and many others and then uh you know a 12-day war a snapback you know in the security council and and you know terrorist operations they have tried everything and all of them failed and i don't know why they don't uh you know understand their failures so if they want to repeat a failed experience they won't get any any better result if americans want to talk about it and they don't want to talk about it and they don't want to talk to us they know how they can uh contact me we are certainly interested for de-escalation this is not our war this is an imposed war against us this is a war of choice by the united states and they have to pay for that and i will they will so pretty defiant there still we'll see if that tone holds over the next few days um ben i've been struck by iran's decision or the how they've responded i mean like they've been targeting densely populated urban areas filled with civilians they've been targeting targets in places like bahrain and dubai which you know in the near term seems like the best possible way to get the entire gulf to rally against you that said maybe the calculus is just like let's up the cost of this war in every way let's inflame these populations see if we can turn them against their governments for supporting the u.s and not uh in israel and not iran um i've also seen reports that iran is fired at saudi oil infrastructure i'm not sure if those are true it doesn't sound like they've hit anything yet i think you know the big question i have is like how long will these the iranians be able to fight against the iranians and how long will they be able to retaliate and what will it look like fox news says iran fired about 300 missiles today they have 2 000 long-range missiles and 2 000 shorter range missiles total um i'm confident that the u.s and israel have taken out a bunch of those and they will methodically take out as many of the missiles and drones as they can but that could take a while and you're not guaranteed to get all of them um we also don't really know what the iranian navy will be able to do um and maybe just the mere threat of going after shipping in the street of hormuz will be enough to choke off oil flows. We should watch the Houthis. We should watch Hezbollah. all these proxy groups, including, you know, some that might be abroad or in American cities is something to worry about. And then again, as we talked about last week, like Iran has some pretty advanced cyber capabilities. We don't know if and how they might use those. So a lot of this is just like, I think, wait and see for a while here. Yeah. I mean, the first point is that, you know, Arachi, it's not clear, you know, who he even reports to at this point. And then negotiation, the Iranians have been bombed now twice in the middle of a nuclear negotiation where they were making concessions. So the idea that that's a pathway to de-escalation seems less likely to me. You laid out well what their options are for response, right? They're not going to do all of them. So we're not suggesting that all these things will happen, but they are all the available paths, you know, ballistic missiles, drones, asymmetric attacks, including terrorist attacks, proxy attacks across the region. Cyber attacks, all these things are kind of in the Iranian kit. And the question is essentially, do they try to kind of empty the, you know, magazine here in the early days, or do they kind of periodically do these kind of waves of strikes and try to make this war hurt for people in Israel and the United States kind of in the region and over time? I agree with you. It's interesting. There are strikes on the Gulf countries and they hit just about everyone except Oman. And that was interesting. Oman was the one that was not hit. Um, some of them were just, you know, strikes at US military facilities. Um, and that, that makes sense and no surprise. Um, these other strikes that include like drone attacks, you know, like as you referenced, uh, on places like Dubai and Bahrain, um, it does seem like that the message they're trying to send is, you know, so long as we are under attack, you are not secure. And yes, they're taking the risk, uh, that certainly the Gulf governments now will probably, uh, feel potentially more inclined to allow the US to use bases to attack Iran. Thus far, a lot of the Gulf countries have opted out of that, um, or maybe even participate themselves. But you also make the point that the US doing this in conjunction with Israel, you know, the, the public's in these countries will surely be mad at Iran for what they're doing, but also I think we'll blame Israel who there's no love for in the region, as well as the United States for launching this war. Yep. And essentially the sense that, that the US is doing this in conjunction with Israel, the US and Israel are involved in kind of a, a strategy of creating chaos in the region, you know, that, that, that, that, that whether it's the strikes in Lebanon or Syria or Yemen or now Iraq, that there's this kind of moving wrecking ball of chaos that is harming people. And we should be, you know, that school, I guarantee you the number one image of the war being consumed around the world. Well, if not number one, it's certainly up there is the image of those parents screaming because they lost their children in that school. It's a horrifying video. Um, and, and so look, I now, so in a weird way, Iran is kind of reinforcing the chaos strategy. You know, it's like, see, look what's happening. We have no choice, but to kind of pour gasoline on this fire that was set. And again, it's going to make them a lot of enemies. Um, but, but I think that their, their, their view is like, we have to set as many fires as we can to make this war feel as uncomfortable for people as we can. Yeah. But to me, the ultimate future of the war will be determined inside of Iran, inside the politics of Iran. Uh, and that we don't know how that's going to play out at all. Yeah. It does seem like they've decided they have to up the cost. I mean, uh, anyone who was saying that in advance was right. So Ben, I know like nobody in the United States cares about hypocrisy or anymore, uh, or, or, you know, lies, but we should just point out that Trump explicitly ran against regime change wars and wars in the middle East in particular. Um, in 2011, he had this to say about a war with Iran and Obama. Let's watch. Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak and he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected and as sure as you're sitting there is to start a war with Iran in August of 2013, Trump tweeted, quote, the president must get congressional approval before attacking Syria. Big mistake. If he does not, uh, JD Vance wrote an op-ed with a headline in the wall street journal. This was from, uh, uh, January, 2023 Trump's best foreign policy, not starting any wars. He asked my support in 2024, because I knew that he was going to win. No, he won't recklessly send Americans to fight overseas. Uh, uh, Tulsi Gabbard used to sell Ben no war with Iran t-shirts. Uh, and now the, just to, just to, you know, make sure she was fully humiliated. Um, there's images of her sitting in the situation room, watching the war unfold at like the, the kids table hosted by JD Vance while Trump's down at Mar-a-Lago, uh, David Sachs, who is not really relevant to this debate, but as someone we personally find, uh, loathsome, uh, what did removing Saddam Gaddafi Assad get us chaos, civil war genocide. The rule for regime change operations in the middle East is they don't flip a country from bad to good. They flip a country from bad to worse. Pretty good point there from, uh, David Sachs. I like again, the, the war has started. Um, it is what it is, but I do think it is worth pointing out how much Trump lied and how we ran against this because maybe parts of MAGA will go along with anything he does and says, I understand that, but a significant percentage, will not. They think this is a bad idea because they don't want to see American service members killed. They don't want to spend the money. They feel like we are getting led around on our foreign policy by Net Yahoo and the Israeli government. And those are things that will be harmful to Trump politically. Yeah. I mean, I, I, this is going to be a real cleavage inside of his coalition, right? I mean, this is, again, it's not a secondary issue for a lot of people, you know, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon. I mean, really the leading lights, uh, such as they are, uh, of MAGA. And, and look, what's amazing about this is that one of Trump's most effective arguments was this one against ending forever wars. It was central to his rise, right? When he dismantled Jeb Bush on the debate stage in 2015 over Iraq, no other Republican would, that's when he moved to the front of the pack. Like he would not be president without his kind of repeated opposition to this idea of forever wars. In the first term too, he was much more careful about, you know, the United States and the United States of America. And he's proven to be not the kind of disruptive corrective to American imperialism and wars of aggression and forever wars. If anything, he's proving to be the uber manifestation of it. I mean, even these targets he's going after are kind of the, the old in the closet, you know, targets of, of hardline Republicans like Lindsey Graham, Venezuela, Iran, and so on. If anything, he's proven to be not the kind Cuba, you know, we, we, this is, this is all the ancient history in the Republican hawk cupboard is coming out and people know that, you know, and nobody asked for this. And, and tell me, I'd say just to take another point that doesn't get discussed much, the price tag for this thing, I was talking to, I was, I was talking to somebody today who was suggesting to me that if it, if it's just even like a few weeks, tens of billions, right? This, this massive amount of moving and deploying into the middle East, and then all these munitions being used, maybe the damage it's being done. We saw some damage to our facility in Bahrain. I mean, do Americans want us to be spending tens of billions of dollars to aggrandize Donald Trump to go along with BB Netanyahu's obsession with, you know, killing the Supreme leader and moving the Iranian regime? No, they don't. And look, normally I kind of roll my eyes. And when you hear from like military people that were, our stockpiles are running lower, this or that, because like, you know, look, we have a lot of weapons, but experts will tell you are running seriously low on interceptor missiles for missile defense systems. We're running low on the Tomahawk missiles, the T-LAMs. If there is a war with China, God forbid, or if we need to respond to them taking Taiwan, like we will be dangerously low on munitions. The Chinese are happy about this. And yes, Trump told us he would end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. And instead he has launched two regime change wars in the first two months of 2026. Like I, we have to be able to prosecute that case, Ben, which I think brings us to the democratic party's response so far. So like candidly, most responses I've seen have been pretty weak. There's some exceptions that we should talk about. They have been focused on the process and Trump's obligation to come to Congress for a vote before going to war, which of course is true, but it's like not my main issue with going to war with Iran. Some Democrats have focused on Trump, you know, not explaining his strategy or making the case again. I agree with them, but not the issue. So like what I just want to see from Democrats is go at the heart of why this is a bad idea. I want them to say there is no urgent threat from Iran's nuclear or ballistic missile program to the United States. Talk about how regime change wars have ended disastrously, both for the U S for the countries we launched them in for the rest of the world. Look at the migration crisis in Europe. Like Trump has started something he cannot control. It doesn't matter what he tells you. And he now owns the consequences. And then there's just the fact that like Americans don't want this. There was a you gov poll very recently, like earlier this month that asked, do you support or oppose the U S using military force to attack Iran? 27% of adults supported it. 24%. We're not sure. 49% were somewhat or strongly opposed. That include 54% of independents who opposed and 19% of Republicans who opposed the war. So keep making that case, right? Like Trump ran against this. Democrats have to make that argument. Like there's a war powers vote next week, which again, good on Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey for pushing this, but it's a little late guys. You know, this is what you and I were complaining about last week. We're getting yelled at by people on Twitter, but you know, it's like now is not the time for, know, long statements that are four paragraphs of throat clearing about how bad Iran is before we get to the heart of the matter, which is this being a catastrophically bad idea. So I don't know. What's your advice for Democrats who might be figuring out what to say? Well, first of all, you're right, because we saw this build up for weeks. Good on Ro Khanna for tabling this resolution. But to the people who are telling us, oh, we're working it through the process. Well, you just proved the point that if you really cared about this thing, you would have fought like hell to get a vote on this before Trump actually bombed the country. It kind of speaks to how Congress has been absent on this thing that they're going to have to vote after. I want to pick out some of the people who've been good, and I'm not going to be able to name check everybody. But like Tim Kaine and Chris Van Hollen in the Senate. And long-term consistent, both of them, about war powers. Kaine in particular, yeah. Yeah, Kaine on war powers. Criticize Democrats, criticize the Republicans, yep. And not just war powers, though. As diverse people as Tim Kaine, Chris Van Hollen, and AOC had different components where they're like, it's illegal, it's unnecessary, they lied about the reasons to do it, and it ignores the lessons of history of regime change wars in the Middle East. So that's an objection on policy, process, history, all of it, right? That's the kind of case you can make. Jason Crowe, I think, made a very powerful case as a veteran where he's like, not only is this not what the American people want, you know, this doesn't lower prices, but time and again, working class people have been screwed because they have to foot the bill for these wars by fighting in them. Or paying the taxes for them, you know? So there's a kind of populist message that I think is important. It's not just like politics, it's true, you know? It is fundamentally true. And so I think no defensiveness, the process is one piece of a much bigger picture here as to why this is wrong. And I think Democrats have to be willing to make that argument. You know, it's interesting to me, Tommy, that you mentioned that the polls fluctuate to 70 to 80%, 80% of Americans are opposed to this. You also saw a public opinion poll for the first time the other day that more Americans sympathize with Palestinians than Israelis, and that is an overwhelming majority among Democrats. And let's just name the fact that oftentimes the people who seem the most reluctant to oppose this war are those Democrats who are most supportive of Israel in Congress. And so we should just not be afraid to talk about the fact that this is part of the dynamic here. Because there's a very clear correlation between people who take AIPAC money and, you know, who've been supportive of Bibi Netanyahu in the past, who are going to either vote no on that resolution or have been pretty teepid about this. And look, Donald Trump, you know, people including us gave him credit for, you know, getting tough with Netanyahu sometimes. But that's out the window now. He just went to war in part because Bibi Netanyahu wanted him to. So like, don't ever tell me again about how Donald Trump uses this leverage. Like, the Democratic Party can be the anti-war party, can be the party that wants to change a dysfunctional relationship with Israel, change a dysfunctional approach to the Middle East, that learned the lessons of history, and that is saying it's time to stop spending money on this stuff and start investing in the things that Americans actually want us to be doing. And I also saw the Israelis are using the occasion of this war to once again cut off aid into Gaza. So there's just like, there's just so many bad things happening right now. I'm Amy Erick, founder of Madison Reed, a hair color company I named after my daughter. I'd like to share hair colors best kept secret with you. Madison Reed hair color bars, where our licensed pros use our award winning ammonia free hair color to deliver salon gorgeous results and 100% great coverage without the traditional salon price tag. Visit madison-reed.com and use code podcast 20 for 20% off your first visit. We can't wait to see you. I'm Amy Erick, founder of Madison Reed hair color bar, where our licensed pros use our award winning ammonia free hair color to deliver salon gorgeous results and 100% great coverage without the traditional salon price tag. I'm Amy Erick, founder of Madison Reed hair color bar, where our licensed pros use our award winning pantalla bar to deliver salon gorgeous results and 100% great coverage without the traditional salon price tag. up at Davos and said that the international order was broken because it only worked for the powerful countries. And therefore, the middle powers had to have their own views on things. And I think what's really disappointing about his statement is, I guess he was only talking about trade. I guess we don't care if the United States just goes around bombing countries with impunity, and Israel goes around much more than the United States, even bombing countries with impunity. So I look, why not stand up to Trump on this one? Like, what is the purpose of and he doesn't even have to be full throated in opposition. But that statement, you know, tilted towards support, as did Albanese. So I don't know, I was a little disappointed in that, because it's like everything else. Like if Trump feels like he can do these things, and, you know, the democratic world is going to kind of fall into line, or at least kind of be pretty passive about it. It just lowers the bar on him doing it. And that's the thing is, he could be doing this again, and again, right? In Iran, he could kind of keep bombing again and again, he could do this in Cuba. Cuba, you know, Greenland could come back in the picture, Panama, like all these other places. And so you have to be thinking ahead to creating some guardrails around what Trump is doing. Yeah. And look, you and I recorded an episode yesterday about how Afghanistan and Pakistan went, are at war. You know, the Pakistani said we are an open war, full-throated war with Afghanistan. There are millions of people who, you know, are getting pushed across either border. Iran shares a big border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. If Iran descends into civil war or chaos, as you said earlier, like a lot of people will be harmed. A lot of people will become refugees, will get pushed out of the country. There could be massive refugee flows. It's just, you know, like this is like, we're like minute one of the game here. And it seems like Trump is already trying to spike the ball with all these phone calls and, you know, bragging to press and et cetera. But I don't know. So look, I guess we'll wait and see if this Supreme Leader is really dead. We'll wait and see who will take his place if that is the case. Any other things you're watching in the next kind of 12, 24 hours? Well, so if the Supreme Leader is dead, I would definitely, how is that announced? Who announces it? Is there a succession plan? I mean, I think we'll get a pretty quick understanding of the kind of political strategy and dynamic inside the Iranian leadership. So I think that's an important thing to watch. Do Iranians heed Trump's call? To kind of rise up and, you know, start to create like a civil conflict, essentially, you know, so that there are clashes in the streets, just like there are clashes in the air. Yeah. I love when the American leaders in Netanyahu call on mostly unarmed Iranians to rise up and fight their military. And that will end well for them, I'm sure. But sorry, continue. No, that, yeah. Netanyahu in particular is like, let me speak directly to the Iranian people, you know. The separate, you know, in the Kurdish areas and the Baluk area, the Kurdish areas of Iran. I get, you know, a lot of people may not follow this, but there are kind of longstanding separatist movements in those regions. Do they start to try to rise up, which could threaten the territorial integrity of Iran? So there's a lot to watch. I think that I want to just echo something you said, Tommy, like we tend to consume these things in news cycles. And even Trump loves that 12-day war, right? Like this is going to play out for years, you know, and it's going to look terrible at some times and may look fine at other times. But like we are in, we're, you could argue that we are in this war now because we had a coup that we sponsored in 1953 in Iran. That looked great on the first day too. And like, look where we are now. And so we just have to recognize this is going to unfold like over a long period of time. Yeah. And this thing might end up feeling cost-free to Americans again, because no U.S. service members are hurt or killed. I pray to God that no U.S. service members are hurt or killed or Americans abroad. But there is already an enormous cost to the Iranian people. Like hundreds are probably dead or wounded already. And so I think that's going to be a huge cost to the Iranian people. I mean, this story about the strike on a girl's school is horrific. Iran is a country that was dealing with an economic crisis. Tehran is a place where they're about to run out of water because of climate change and other mismanagement and other reasons. So like it's a population that has suffered enormously. There was this massive crackdown on protesters, you know, a couple months back, which Trump is sort of cynically making part of his messaging about why he had to bomb them again. Like, again, I'm sure there are some Iranians who are in the streets who hate Iran, but I'm just so happy that the Supreme Leader has taken out and like just sort of hope for something better. I just my fear with all of this, having been through Iraq and Afghanistan and the Arab Spring and just a lot of kind of turmoil is that the guys with the guns tend to end up on top. And in this case, the guys with the guns aren't much better than, you know, the Ayatollah and the Supreme Leader and the religious figures who have been in charge of Iran since, you know, 1979 or, you know, 89, I think, in terms of Khamenei's tenure. Yeah, I mean, I think you probably know, Tommy, two people in the Iranian diaspora who are very supportive of this military intervention. I understand, like the anger and trauma that people feel in the diaspora. I just sincerely believe that the United States and Israel bombing Iran to bring about regime change creates more risks, frankly, than it does opportunities. And principally, the reason I believe that is to your point, when I think of the places where there have been regime change, let's expand it beyond even U.S. wars to Arab Spring, right? Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Yemen. I'm leaving some out. But in every case, Sudan, where the people did rise up, in every case, you either had like a civil war that was hugely destabilizing and disruptive and a law of life, or you had the guys with guns come back and be even more repressive, right? Like the Egyptian government that emerged was more repressive even than Mubarak, right? And so that's why we sincerely just don't think this is the right way. It's not out of any, you know, no love for this regime. It's been horrible for the Iranian people. But I think we just have to learn from history. And I just want to come back to what you mentioned it, Tommy. So I'm just wondering if you have a final thought on this. The media coverage, some of it's very good, but some of it is just, what are we doing here, people? Like, you had people credibly referring to the Israeli statement that this was like a preemptive strike, like preemptive. I know, I know. Preemptive what? What are we preempting? That's Iraq war language. It's almost like they were trolling the U.S. media and just being a stenographer for this fucking bullshit. Especially when we were told the nuclear infrastructure was, quote unquote, totally and completely obliterated in June of last year. The United States said that. It's just like, come on, guys. Just like be a little more credulous of anything this guy says or that Netanyahu says. Yeah. All right. Well, look, thank you guys for watching or listening to this. Please subscribe to Pod Save the World wherever you get your podcasts or here on YouTube. I don't know if we'll be back tomorrow, but we'll be watching this very closely. We'll be covering this all week long. So we appreciate you guys watching and sharing this and, you know, let us know what else you want to hear. And we appreciate it. Pod Save the World is a Crooked Media production. Our senior producer is Alona Minkowski. Our producer is Michael Goldsmith. Our associate producer is Anisha Banerjee. We get production support from Saul Rubin. Our executive producers are me, Tommy Vitor, and Ben Rhodes. The show is engineered, mixed, and edited by Jordan Cantor. Audio support by Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thank you to our digital team, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, William Jones, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. 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