Brat News Network

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to another episode of Base News Network. My name is Sophie, aka Jonavarca, and I'm here with Kayo, aka punk revolution now. Say hi. - Hello, Sophie. - Hey, so we're just gonna give a little heads up before we start the episode that we will be going on hiatus for a bit. I am moving, I'm in the process of moving. Things are getting really hectic, and you know, it'd be really nice for us to have a break, so thanks everyone for your support, and yeah, we hope to be back soon. Sophie's moving to New York City, finally. - Permanently, really. - With, we're not moving in together at this point, but we're gonna be in the same city. - We'll finally be in the same city. - So, that's a party, but yes, it's a, it's a, - It's a hectic time. - It's a hectic time, but so, you know, some of you, if you've been diehard following, you might have realized we have been uploading not quite every week as we want to, but because we've been entering a more hectic time, but yes, as Sophie said, we will be back with love, and it'll be fun. - Yeah. - So, already, so, so, Sophie, for this episode, so, for this episode, we should start. Let's talk about the new Charles. - Charlie XCX album. - King Charles. King, of course, we're Charlie. - King Charles, King Charles's new album. - Yes, Brett. Yeah, Brett, Brett is finally out, guys. The hype was there, the hype has been there. I was a little bit out of the loop, and honestly, I just realized yesterday that the album came out because, I don't know, like, haven't been listening to music very often. I've sort of just been watching YouTube videos or listening to podcasts and sort of not engaging in new music. So, it kind of snuck up on me, even though I was, you know, I've been following the hype for a while. I do really like the album art, which is basically, like, this really vibrant, like, neon green color, and the word Brat, written out in this, like, basic font, and it's kind of blurred. I know she said earlier when people were upset about the album art being so blank and not having her on there. She sort of talked about how people, like, are feeling titled to having a female pop star, like, display herself and have photos of herself on album art, and that I've observed that to be very true. Fans, like, Stan Twitter was, like, usually, you know, very critical of album art, and don't like it if they don't use a slave picture for the album. So, I thought that was kind of creative, and, you know, Charlie's always very tongue-in-cheek and likes to stir the pot, and, you know, she's a very, she's very free-spirited. So, I thought that was interesting, and I actually really like how it looks. - Yeah, I feel, so I actually remember, I remember seeing the album cover a while back, and not really realizing it was an album artwork, and I was just seeing it everywhere. You know, like, I was just seeing people making edits of the cover and stuff, the green color and the same brat, and, you know, I think it's a great cover on its own, but I feel like it's an especially creative cover because it's just, I mean, it went kind of like, it became like a meme, it kind of went viral in its own way. - Yeah. - You know, so it's, you know, it's like, yeah, it's creative. And, you know, the concept is like brat. Obviously, it's like being bratty, being like a bit like bad and going into the grain. - She's very bratty, and-- - Yeah. - And like, I think it's a very good album title. - Yeah, and it's, and like, doing an album cover that looks like grainy and trolly and pisses some people off. - It's very, it's a very trolly album. - Yeah. - Actually, though, I would argue that her previous album is Crash was more trolly because she basically made Crash and like talks about Crash as if like, she made it as like thinking like, this is what I would sound like if I sold out and didn't like try to do anything interesting. - It's funny, she said that about that album. - That's interesting because I remember, I feel like Crash has been kind of swept under the rug a bit. - Yeah, it's not the most memorable, although there are some songs on there I kind of like. - Yeah, I mean, I remember listening to it, and I didn't think it was like bad. It wasn't a bad album. - I feel like didn't, I don't think you gave it a favorable review though on the podcast. - I remember, yeah, I gave it a negative review. So, I don't look, I guess, I can't remember, I guess the fact that I can't really even remember exactly what I said kind of says everything about the album in a way, but yeah, I feel like this has been a good like, very strong comeback. Blossom people saying brat is like a very strong, critically acclaimed album, et cetera. - AOTY. - You think so? - We'll be bar saying that. - Okay. - I wouldn't know because I don't know if I've listened to any other albums that came out this year. - Okay, so let's talk about the music. So, okay, I guess wait, do you have anything else to say about the album cover? - No, no, just that I like it. I think it's very fun and broughty. - Me too. - So, in terms of the music besides outside of the cover, I feel like I'm doing like a punk revolution now, album review right now, talking about the album cover and then talking about the music, I would say, I liked it. I, well, you know, it's only been out for, I've listened to it like twice. - Same. - So that's like enough for like first impression. So first impression, I think it's interesting. I, you know, I like that. It sounds like she really focused on, I feel like she did a really good job of narrowing down a specific sound throughout this album of like, I'm gonna use like this kind of like palette of aggressive synths and these kind of like classic club drum percussion to make it sound like, you know, classic like aggressive underground rave music with of course like the Charlie X, the X, A.G. Cook, artsy twist, Sophie twist. And honestly, I have to say too, I did hear a decent amount of Caroline Polichek influences, like I feel like Charlie would like listen to the most recent Caroline Polichek album and like got a little bit of inspiration in there too. - Yeah, I mean, they are collaborators, so make sense. - That's true, it's kind of hard to say. Yeah, I guess they both have always been influencing each other. But yeah, they're like the same kind of milieu. - Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I, I, I liked it. You know, I think it's, I think ultimately what Charlie X, the X was going for was like exactly that like fun, a little bit more aggressive, a little bit more bite to it, but then lyrically get a more personal and some like moments that are a little bit more emotional and a little bit more sensitive and like sad. And I didn't personally, I didn't care for those songs as much melodically. I don't know, I'm not necessarily like speaking to the subject of the song, but I found like the more sad songs, like I might say something stupid and re, I might sound, I might say something stupid to me kind of fell, fell flat. And I also thought, as far as like songs I didn't like her song rewind, sounded like a very derivative Charlie song, like a very classic Charlie X X song, but in that way it kind of lacked substance or individuality. So that one for me was a bit boring, but I thought I liked club classics. I liked the bridge part. It reminded me a lot of Sophie and yeah, yeah. I thought that song was fun. I liked the song Apple because it reminded me of like Hyme a lot with whom she's also collaborated. I thought this song, everything is romantic, kind of stood out. Do you remember that one? No, no. I don't remember that one off the top of my head. One with like the strings. Now I remember. It's actually funny because you took the words out of my mouth with like, I actually agree completely with you that the slower, more sadder, more sensitive songs didn't always stick the landing and like a lot of like the more fast pace like Von Dutch and like talk talk club classics. I think though, you know, it's like I kind of just like, okay, I would rather just listen to those and some of these like slower songs kind of feel a little bit half baked, you know. Yeah, I'm not a fan of those. Like I feel like conceptually, you know, it's a nice concept sometimes to like have some dynamics in your album where you can have some fast moments and moments to catch your breath. But I feel like, for example, like I might say something stupid, just kind of like, it just feels like a pointless throwaway song. Yeah, there are a few of those for sure. I like this song. One song that I thought was a little bit, I guess more personal that I actually liked a lot was I think about it all the time. And that's the one where I put that on, I put that on my like list. Yeah, I guess you know, that song is still pretty fun and upbeat and catchy. So it's hard to like, I wouldn't put in the sad category. But it's like, you know, it's personal. It's like her talking about, you know, contemplating. You know, having a kid someday or whatever. Yeah, that was, that was interesting. And I liked how she liked how it was sort of like a very, it was very conversational and like story like the way she talked like I like her like low affect British voice talking. I think it's very satisfying to listen to you. And that's I kind of love when Charlie does like talk things because like listening to like listening to her like British like British voice like makes me feel like cool. I don't know why. Yeah, yeah, you know, I have to say so like obviously Charlie XC X is like super cool and you know, charming and all of that. And I agree I really liked the delivery on that song. It felt just so honest and like just so made her feel like a real person. And then obviously, you know, like I think that the track here mean girls. Oh my god, that one. You know, that's I feel like that sort of like the title track, you know, even though brat like brat and mean girls is kind of like synonymous. You know what I mean? I didn't really care for mean girls. But I just the song itself like I didn't really like it that much. And I thought like the song was like this is for the ones who blah blah. I really don't like that style of like lyric. What's that style called again? I don't even know. No, no, no, no. This is like this is such a thing where it's like like it like there's. I do it for the blah blah blah blah. I do it for the blah blah blah. Not not the not the music, but like I feel like the lyrics are like touching on like red scare core. Well, I was gonna say this is a I think about Dasha or like because she's friends with Dasha. Yeah. Or like like Dasha Jason, like the dime squared type. Isn't there a word for like girl posting? Like what's girl blogging? Girl blogging. It just reminds me of a girl blogging kind of song. It's a very girl blogging song that's like almost like and I do think it's on purpose. Like I think it's intentionally on the nose and like making fun of it a little bit, but I just as far as a song went like I didn't like the song that much. I agree. I agree. Yeah, I got you. Yeah, no, that's a good point. Like I feel like with the lyrics, like you know, even though it's like a little on the nose, like that's not the main issue with the song. The main issue with the song is like it's just kind of there's other songs on the album that yeah, we're like better melodies and we're more catchy. Yeah, yeah. And like I do think like she's kind of being coy about it and like yeah, she's not literally like saying like these girls who listen to Lana Del Rey and who are co-catters so cool. Like it's obviously a little bit of it. It's literally you, Sophie. Oh, no, it's literally you. Hell, hell no. Okay, so what did you think about the song girl so confusing? Um, as far as the song, like I don't know if I loved the song itself, but I found it very interesting because obviously the question that comes to mind is who's this about. And most people are speculating that like she's talking about Lord. Maybe Marina, but I think in the diet and Marina Diamondis, but I think it's about Lord. The girls, the girls are fighting. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, you know, I guess, you know, maybe it's only because it's been like two days, but I guess maybe the maybe the word that is coming to mind right now for me is inconsistent. Where I feel like like a lot of moments on the cell, but I feel like I really like I love and I really click with and I think are so creative like what? Um, what was the song with the piano in it? Is that mean girls? That might have been mean girls. That that part I actually liked. I liked when there's a random like piano part in it. Yeah, and I was like, that's cool around me like Fiona Apple Lee type, you know. Yeah, exactly. So like, I think this album is like a lot of really fun moments, some really creative moments, some really awesome lyrics and like fun. Just like, it's just like a lot of, it's like, it's just like a lot of girl like to and like, I think I know you said like inconsistent and I would agree as far as like if I like the song or not, but I feel like the narrative she's pushing like this. Like it's very, I feel like it's a very modern contemporary album because it talks a lot about like being an egg girl online egg girl, which is like very info. Like, I mean, she has that song 360 like she references Gabriella in like Julia Fox and like all these very like important internet icons. And I mean, in the music video for which she like kind of brings them all together and she, you know, she had blizzy McGuire in their friend of the pod blizzy. Oh, so wait, wait, wait. Is that music video out now? Yeah, it's been up for a while. I haven't seen it yet. Yeah, blizzy's blizzy's in it. I got to go watch that. But besides that, I think you made a really interesting point because yes, maybe inconsistent is like a word I feel, but I think you're right that there's actually something pretty cohesive about it. I feel like it's a cohesive narrative and I feel like what she's saying about herself and, you know, like I think it's a very self-aware album. And that like she knows how people view her and think of her and she sort of plays into it. But also subverts it a bit. I don't know. It feels like the vision behind it is coherent. And I think that might for me, I'm, you know, I love the conceptual. Yeah, yeah, over the material, I would say I prefer the conceptual for the material. And like to me, that's more important. So I think I'd prefer a more coherent like narrative and idea than like all the songs being perfect. And you know, did you see that pitch work gave it a favorable. Yeah, really. Yeah. So that's cool. Oh, yeah. Another thing that's really cool about is the first song is titled 360. And the last song is titled 365. You know, you know, another kind of like demonstrating like an overarching artistic vision. Yeah. I would say, so one thing I'll say is with this album, I think we all are ready to kind of move on. From this vibe of this, like, because I feel like the concept is, it's very cohesive. But I feel like a lot of these, like, kind of elements of this sort of concept of like internet-y, too cool. It's like Mimi. It's like, it's like me music. Yeah, even though it's even though the concept is called cohesive and well put together it's like I feel like there's a lot of these ideas in this album have already been explored yeah I think she in some ways like originated it though yeah that's valid this might be like she's she's been like like she kind of like started her career on the internet like I think she's she's kind of like she's similar to like a what's her name? MIA yeah me yeah she got by me I think it's MIA I think she was by MIA MIA like kind of vibe of like people who kind of made like poppy in internet music so like I think Charlie is entitled to like participate because I think she is like an important figure behind this sort of aesthetic and conceptual attitude I don't know like internetic girl red-scarer core attitude like she's she's an important figure in that but I agree it's like we need to pack it up like I'm there needs to be something new I'm like really I'm serious like it's it's getting old and I've been thinking about this a lot yeah I yeah I I agree I feel like this can be like tie tie this whole thing up in a bow and this could be the like final rubber stamp of this like arrow of this kind of vibe um in a way in your right it's like Charlie this is this like Charlie defines this this aesthetic and vibe in everything so I'm not like hating on her it's just I know and in a way I feel like this is to me it feels like the most Charlie xx Charlie xx album in a way like I don't know like I feel like I don't know if it is for me but for me I don't know when I think of a really like a Charlie xx album I think of like when she was like collabing with PC music and like um what was that one album like her like acclaimed albums is it the one with the gold arm cover because you guys want it's like literally called like Charlie oh yeah like herself titled and yeah yeah that one for sure also pop to yeah pop to for sure um pop to definitely um I guess I guess what I'm trying to say is like it just like to me I just feel like this album just feels like immersing in the like in Charlie xx yeah as a concept in a way you know I don't even know if it's for sure like she definitely delivers that but I think she kind of presents a more elevated mature perspective on that I agree I agree there's like a self-awareness to it throughout the album yeah definitely but that's like that's how we all are now like we're all so super self-aware and everything we do yeah another thing too also is just uh speaking of like the album cover brat um and like another kind of bratty thing along with this album rollout is changing all the album artwork on streaming platforms for all her previous albums from pop to Charlie crash all of it too basically the same album cover is brat which is one solid color and then like blurry font of the title of the album on the album cover yeah kind of trolling like you don't like brat so I'm cover I'm gonna make all the album covers this cover then it's honestly so chic I love it yeah I like that too something I need to mention oh sorry but yeah go ahead I have to say this like a prominent producer on this album besides A.G. Cook was one Hudson Mohawk who is responsible for the song Seabat from that infamous reddit post so I think that is important to note for anyone curious so I think you know Hudson Mohawk is definitely W oh no Hudson Mohawk is truly yeah very influential no he is he definitely it he definitely is but it's just like no I like I feel like he's just forever like associated with the Seabat reddit story you know it's true it's true I agree it's yeah when the moment you say the Hudson Mohawk the Seabat immediately popped in my head like it's like a muscle memory oh god literally muscle memory yeah yeah yeah so I it's kind of interesting because I feel like I'm seeing the reaction to this album being like lots of people are saying like this is like her some people are saying it's like her best album you know and I'm gonna go ahead and say I could see I could very much see it be it being someone's favorite Charlie Excel Abon but I don't think it's gonna like be like I think there's like a little bit of hype right now that kind of is maybe you know I will say yeah well sorry I was I just I will say that like I feel like conceptually it's like her most elevated and realized album I agree I agree I that and that I think is really important that's worth it to me like yeah artistically so what did you think of the the song um about Sophie um it's for this the song goes I I don't really recall how it sounds I don't know if it was super memorable to me but I did read the lyrics because I knew it was about Sophie and there's this interesting thing where a lot of musicians have been writing songs about Sophie and I believe Caroline Polichak was the first to do this and that song is very good but then yeah but then um St Vincent I think wrote one which is strange because they never even met in real life yes yes and I think she was just inspired by the I mean to be fair Sophie was obviously very irreverent and and talented and like a unique person that has been like extremely influential in music well that's no question bam bam and her death was very poetic because she you know she died because she was I think in Greece on like a balcony she tried to see the moon and then she fell like it's a very like beautiful what's it horrible but like you know beautifully poetic way to die like if you're thinking of it as like a conceptual thing so I could see how you know people might be inspired by that idea but some people are thinking like some people are saying like St Vincent's is trying to like use Sophie for cloud I don't know like okay Vincent is always a little weird though she's she's just I don't know well okay but I'm a St Vincent fan by the way I like St Vincent too but like hold up hold up so let me just rewind like okay so first off I agree the Caroline Polichak song about Sophie was great but even that song even that song where Caroline Polichak was like French was Sophie even that song got some criticism because I don't remember the specific lyric but just like people were like saying it kind of like kind of got a little bit too specific with like referencing her like falling or something like that I okay I don't know how other people feel but I don't understand why there is some special set of rules that or standards that like sort of police how people especially people who actually knew her make songs or like think about Sophie like I feel like other artists make songs about artists all the time or like people they admire dying like I don't think this is anything unusual if anything it's an artist making a tribute to someone in the best way they know how I really don't think it's inappropriate and I mean at the time that Caroline Polichak released that song I do think it was like a couple years after Sophie's death so it wasn't like right away I don't think like personally I don't think there's anything wrong with what what Caroline Polichak did and I don't think our like musicians should necessarily be barred from taking that as an artist as artistic inspiration that's my belief the reason like the same thing is kind of weird because she didn't actually know Sophie that is a little bit weird But I also don't even think it's that bad. - Okay, so, all right. Let me, I gotta say some stuff here. So, one, I completely, completely agree that no artist should be morally condemned for wanting to explore a specific topic. And I actually kind of feel like that should be a more general statement outside of Sophie's death. But I feel like when, with Caroline Polichek's song, I saw two different kind of negative reactions. One that was like, I don't like how this is articulated and it just makes me a little uncomfortable. I think that's a valid criticism, like that's sort of like your opinion. - I mean, it's like music criticism. - Yeah, exactly. But then there was other people who were like going a step further and saying like, this is so not cool, like as if like there was something morally wrong with Caroline Polichek's song, which I think is ridiculous and grief is complicated. Grief is gonna be complicated. Everyone's gonna have different ways of grieving. So, like, get off her back. - And it's like, who do you think has more, if you're going to play this game about being appropriate, like something like this being appropriate? Who do you think has more of a relationship to Sophie and a right to do this? Caroline Polichek or you, you know what I mean? - Well, not Saint Vincent. - I mean, I mean, I don't even think, okay, here's my take. Saint Vincent doing it, it comes across as like a little bit cringy because, but again, like I said, the way Sophie died and like the role she played in culture, it's very striking and it sticks with you. So I don't necessarily blame another artist for being inspired by an artist they didn't actually know. But I, and I haven't actually listened to the song. I think I read the lyrics at one point and I thought they were kind of cringy 'cause it sounded very personal. And that's, again, it valid criticism. Like if it's cringy, it's cringy. Like criticize it, but I don't think like, Saint Vincent isn't necessarily like morally bankrupt for making this song about Sophie. If anything, like it's, maybe it's a misguided, but it's a well-intention, but misguided gesture. If you wanna be critical. - I would say, I agree with all that, but I would say Caroline Polichek's song and lyrics, I thought were good and fine. - I personally, I really do not like these lyrics from Saint Vincent. - Wait, can I look up this lyrics? 'Cause I don't really remember them at all. - Because I feel like it's a little too on the nose. Like yes, Sophie's death was like, you know, kind of like, I don't even, I don't even wanna call it inspiring or beautiful 'cause it just like grosses me out. But I understand like there was something kind of like, oh god, these are bad lyrics. - It's just, it's like, it's like, it's basically just turning Sophie's death into a cliche. - I don't, this lyric is really bad. My Sophie, the comment on my Sophie is really weird 'cause you didn't even know her. So I agree that is a little strange. My Sophie claimed the roof to get a better view of the moon. My god, then one step took her down to the depths, but for a minute, what of you, what of you? That is a little strange. I mean, it is a, again, like it's true like her, not that it's very poetic, but it does feel like a really intimate in a way that it shouldn't. So I think this is all valid music criticism. Do I think that St. Vincent is a bad person for this? No. - No. - Do I think she's really cringe, yes. But I'm a fan of her music and everything. - Yes. I feel like that what people were saying about Caroline Politechek song in "Inaccurately" actually does kind of accurately apply to St. Vincent's song. - They got her for saying look to the edge, but not too far, Caroline Politech said that. - Yeah. - And then St. Vincent's like, "You fell and died." (laughing) - Or whatever, it's like, you know? - Well, the worst offense to me is saying my Sophie. That's right. - Yes, yes, that's really weird. - Yes, yes. It's like literally like, it's like exactly. It's like, it's like St. Vincent did not read the criticism. Well, I mean, okay, look, again, I agree. St. Vincent, not a bad person for this. Grief is complicated. You can obviously grieve for someone you've never met, especially an artist. - Yeah, if you're inspired by the story, I don't really imagine St. Vincent having any grief because she didn't know her. But I can see St. Vincent being like touched emotionally by it or preoccupied with it emotionally and artistically. Like, you can't help but point out how Politech, her death is as sad as it is, you know? And I, like, for example, I think Charlie XEX out of anyone has the right to explore this because she collaborated frequently with Sophie. And I like what she does with the song. I don't remember how the song goes. Like, at all, I, again, I've only listened to it twice so I need to listen to it at the album again. But something I liked about the song and she's spoken to this in interviews before that, you know, it is true that she and Sophie were very close collaborators. But what, you know, some people don't know about their relationship is that Charlie was kind of intimidated by Sophie. And like, their relationship was, wasn't like the, as close as people might think. Like, I think Charlie really looked up to Sophie and was very inspired by Sophie and almost intimidated by her, but like had a deep admiration for her and that like, actually it is really hard for her to perform the songs that she worked on with Sophie because of the feelings associated with it. Is that what you got from it? I was going to say so kind of. I would say, I feel like, you know, again, like, okay, and I think this applies to all three artists, Caroline Pullochek, St. Vincent and Charlie XCX. If you are going to take on writing a song about Sophie's passing, that's like, that's a really tough, that's like a tough, that's a tough one, you know? And like, obviously, what do you mean by St. Vincent? St. Vincent wrote a song about Sophie dying too. I know, but like, I thought you were like, kind of pushing them to, like I, wouldn't you agree that like Charlie XCX and Caroline Pullochek have more in common with Sophie than St. Vincent would? Yes, for sure, but I'm just like, I'm making a more general point about like, like, let me, let me finish right thought here. Okay, sorry. Like, like, it just applies for anybody. It could be anybody to write a song about Sophie's death. That's a really challenging one. That's like, that's a tough one to write a song about because it's just like, it's like writing a song, you know, about like 9/11 or something like that. Where it's like, it's a good, no, no, no, no, no, for real. Because, well, okay, like, like, but it's, it's obviously it's gonna be different. Like, if you're, if you have a family member who died in 9/11, you know, that's one thing versus, you know, but the point I'm trying to make is that like, I feel, I guess just bringing it back to Charlie XCX's song, I feel like it's kind of hard to criticize because it's like a personal thing for her, 'cause she was friends with her. But I just find it to be a lackluster song. - I don't even remember how the song goes. So there's that. I thought it was, so like, I didn't really like this song. I don't remember the song that well, but as far as like a tribute to Sophie, to me, I don't know, like, she doesn't engage in like, what Polichek and St Vincent do, which is like, referencing the actual way she died. Charlie doesn't do that. Instead, she talks more about like their personal relationship which she talks about like, you pushed me. Why did I push you away? Like, you pushed me as an artist, but I pushed you away and all that stuff, you know? Like, I thought it was kind of a nuanced, like, - I feel a lot better about that. I think that's a lot, like, I think, lyrically, that's a much better direction to go. I think, like, yeah. Well, the Caroline Polichek song is definitely the best songwise. - Yes, yes. - But I don't know, like, I guess, like Charlie X-X and Sophie's like, collaboration is very, it's often mentioned and it is kind of like, very sentimental thing that people discuss a lot, is their relationship. And I think I like that Charlie sort of was able to kind of explain what their relationship was really like. which was more of a like, it was a friendship but it was a collaboration in which Charlie kind of regrets how she and Sophie worked together and like it seems like she's expressing that like she wish she could have been actually closer with Sophie as a friend and not push her away. Well, that's, well, I guess like, well, yeah, so that's a great, I think that's actually a really, really great approach to writing a song with it. It's fascinating. It's like, I feel like she kind of dispels the like fantasy of their relationship a little bit. Yeah, it turns it into a real thing. Mostly like a real thing. Yeah, exactly. But it turns into a real thing, but it doesn't, the song itself doesn't live up to like the potential of that lyrical exploration. Yeah, as my memory serves me, I would agree. Yeah, so I don't know. It's interesting. It's definitely interesting, I am, you know, again, like I don't know, maybe it's just like such a complicated topic to touch on that like it's going to be hard to like, how do you write a perfect song about like, you know what I mean, like it's, it's not an easy song to approach because it's like, Sophie is at this point, I mean, there's so many different things. It's kind of like a god like, yeah, exactly, exactly. It's like, it's like trying to write a song about God. It's just like, you know, it's going to be. Yeah, she's a god like figure for multiple reasons, one, her contribution to like PC music and like pop music right now is like, cannot be exaggerated. And so there's that like she has, I mean, her as a person, like she was very interested in the metaphysical and she, you know, she's very interested in like, like, detached bodies. I don't know, that sounds so academic, but like, she's right into like metaphysics and like philosophy and like the self-conception and like a very like spiritual kind of elevated way. And then of course, her death is extremely sad and poetic, so there's the kind of turns her into a myth, a mythical person, like in terms of her influence and her, her death. Yes, and I honestly feel like like trying to, like I don't know how else to put it, but like, I think Sophie's death obviously a tragedy and I kind of like, I don't know, actually, you know what? I don't even want to talk about this anymore. I don't even want to. I'm like, so I'm like just, it's like, I feel like, like, yeah, it's like, we could get like super academic, like slicing and dicing, like the million ways to talk about Sophie. But anyways, so yeah, long story short, the song, lyrically, I feel like it's a great approach, but this song itself maybe was a little, could have been in the oven a little bit longer, maybe. But anyways, we've been talking about this album for a hell of a long time, Sophie. Should we? Yeah, do anything else you want to talk about in this album? I mean, I can go in. Yeah, I mean, we could do the whole pod on it, but I mean, maybe we can just do one more topic after this. But if anything, like overall, I'm pleased with it and I'll definitely be listening to it again. There's some songs that I will have will definitely be regularly listening to, some not. But yeah, you know, I admire Charlie XCX. I always think she's kind of gone against the grain as a pop musician and I think she's really important and influential, culturally and musically. And yeah, no, I just, I really admire her a lot. I was like, this album made me think about how much I admire her as a person and I like that she doesn't, I like that she isn't as worried about how people perceive her and is willing to kind of shock and have fun and I don't know, like I just, I think she's a very cool person and yeah, like it's authentic, she's authentic, you know, I like people who do their own thing, do it well. Yeah, it's like, it's not like, yeah, their own space out for themselves, you know. Yeah, she's not worried about like being super polished and saying the correct, corporate stuff, you know what I mean? Like obviously. Yeah, and like she kind of flirts with edgelord humor online, not saying that's necessarily good, but like, I guess like what I'm saying, she isn't like, she doesn't like self-police online, like she kind of just says what she wants to say, she's overall like, I don't think she's problematic as far as I know or anything like that, like in the internet sense of that word, but I like that she's kind of hashtag real. She's real, but she also obviously is a good person, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. But if she, if she accidentally like says something hurtful to someone, she would apologize, I think, you know what I mean? Like she's not like, right wing, obviously, you know? No, she's not right wing. I just, I like that she isn't so like self-sensoring and self-policing and that she kind of says what she wants to say, she kind of owns her brat reputation. I guess I find that very, I find people like that refreshing, as long as they're not like cruel bad people, you know? I agree. And was she, was she on red scare? She was not on red scare, but Charlie had a podcast, I don't know if she still does it. She had a podcast about like songs, like music that you would pick for certain situations and they're like 15 minutes each, I think. And like a couple of years ago she had Dasha and Echorsova on and so like, she's like slightly, like I know she listens to red scare, like Charlie actually listens to red scare. And I know she and Dasha are like kind of friends, like not, I wouldn't say like close friends, but they're kind of like, run in the same circles and they're kind of friends with each other. So, it's so weird, I always, I feel like like every, like us watching succession recently that is Dasha. Yeah. It's I feel like every. I'm not underestimating the level of cultural influence, the red scroll, red, red, the red scare women have had. Yeah, and then, yeah, and then I feel like same with like, you know, like that, the, the come town comedians to, yeah, it's just like, I, there's like, oh, it, there's like always like one or, there's only like one or two degrees of separation between every cultural event and like one of those podcasts. They're better for worse, like they've, they're very, very influential. All right. Um, we got like 10ish more minutes here. Okay. Do you want to just talk about the Google thing briefly? Can I real quick just have a brief, really brief celebration moment? Oh, sure. I just really want to quickly celebrate Donald Trump. Oh, yeah. Convicted of 34 felonies and he got owned. Ripped Donald. I hope he goes to jail. Ripped Donnie. I hope so. It's going to, I think it's going to help him, but I don't want to get into that. That's not, that's not cool there. I don't want Donald. Donald got arrested and he got charged 34 accounts and sentencing is in July. So we shall see. You got sentence in my city. Do not mess. Do not, don't mess with New York City, Donald Trump, where else we're going to put your ass in jail. That's what's up. That's me, that's me, and Jay-Z hanging out in New York City, putting Trump in jail. Oh, God. That's what's up. Okay. Best city in the world. That's why I always moving here. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the Google AI thing. Gemini, right? Yeah. I think so. I know there's Claude Gemini. Yeah. I don't, I think it's Gemini. I know. I thought it was called Bard. I think they changed it. Was it Gemini? Maybe. The Google Bard. The Google Bard. Because I know there's also a meta one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's called meta AI. Okay. So Gemini used to be called Bard and these are, this is Google's AI model. The AI, the scramble for AI, the AI space race, arms race. Yes. So the long story short. here is that obviously all these big tech companies, literally all of them are fighting thoroughly to, well, I don't know, I guess like plant themselves in there as like the dominant AI tech provider or whatever the hell, you know what I mean? - Or rather that like if they don't develop some sort of AI chatbot mechanism, they'll be left behind. So they have to like catch up. - Yeah, it seems like exactly. So like I feel with AI, nobody really knows exactly where that like where the profits are gonna come from with AI, but we all know it's coming at some point. Like AI is set to change the world. - It's not negotiable now for yeah, for any tech company to not have some sort of chatbot like language model thing. Clearly for a better for worse because they're definitely not perfect as well as Google. - Yes, yeah, so that's right. So actually first Bing did it first, Bing did it first with Microsoft using-- - Right, 'cause yeah. - 'Cause Microsoft has invested a lot in opening it. - So it was opening it. - Yes, so now, so yeah, and what that was using Bing, you search something on Bing and like you'll get your standard results, but then also you'll get like the chat GPT kind of summing up whatever you're asking results. And like it's obviously like not the best user experience yet, but you know it shows promise. And then obviously Google big competitor of Microsoft and obviously the dominant search engine puts in Gemini as like an experiment to see, basically just doing the same thing that Bing is doing where it gives you a upfront chat GPT or rather Gemini answer of whatever you're searching. And there was like a ton of stuff going viral because a lot of the time Gemini's answer would pop up at the very top and just give a completely wrong nonsensical answer. - Is it okay to drink while pregnant? - Yes, it's okay. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, exactly, so like, so there's like multiple reasons, like there's multiple reasons this is crazy. Like the fact that there's, you know, even if it was only, I don't even know if they fixed it yet or if they, I don't know exactly what the game plan is, but the thought that like millions of Google searches were giving people like just like immediately churning out like a like objectively bad wrong answer is like that's kind of scary, that's scary. People are like really dumb, you know? Like a lot of people like are gonna read a Gemini generated answer, that's just like the polar opposite like of what the answer should be. And we'll take it at face value. You know, maybe they're really, and I don't mean to be jerk, maybe they're like really old and they don't understand, you know, Gemini yet or maybe they're just, you know, not the brightest person. So that's scary. We already feel like everyone's already really dumb. We don't need more of that. And then also too, you know, I feel like this is like a much needed, like just like kind of a correction to everyone's like perspective and expectations of artificial intelligence. At like, yeah, artificial intelligence isn't there yet. Like it's not there yet, like it's just. And this is not the first time Google's AI has messed up. If you remember back a few months ago, when Google's like Gemini AI image generator was generating like images of like Asian female Nazis and like, you know, like in an attempt to. - Yes. - I remember that. - Yeah, and Google stated that they wanted the AI to be like imagery to, you know, 'cause there's been concern about like bias because for example, in the past like an AI image generator, like image journey, for example, would, if you like put in like a doctor, like they might all be white men or if you put in an Arab or something and like they might all look like in a stereotypic way and not like reflect diversity and stuff like that. So Google tried to circumvent that by like making its AI imagery like intentionally diverse. But what happened was it made situations include people of color in situations that would be inappropriate. Obviously it's very offensive to depict like Asian women as Nazis, you know what I mean? They're like, these were like like people found a way to very quickly like exploit the diversity, like racial gender diversity, goals of Gemini's AI imagery to like troll. You know, like people found a way to use it to troll very fast and they like retracted it and we're like, okay, we're trying to make it better. But my theory is like they must be like saving money by just releasing it and then like testing it on the public, you know what I mean? Instead of like, well, that's, I mean, that's kind of how that works anyway, but. - Yeah, it's, yeah, but I think the thing, so there's two things. So one, the thing with like them purposely trying to make like AI generated images more diverse and then that leads to historical inaccuracies. Like that's, that's not great. Obviously we want things to be as accurate as possible. But the biggest issue for me about that was it like, it just gave like the dominoing alt-right people a ton of anger. - Exactly, exactly. 'Cause Elon Musk spent like a whole week tweeting, oh my God, this is like racism against white people. Google is racist against like, it's just like, it was literally the worst thing. - I would argue it's, yeah, I would argue it's racist to people of color because to like put people of color in situations like, like, for example, being a Nazi is extremely offensive. - Yes, yes, absolutely. So it's like-- - When Nazis are like, the goal is to destroy people of color and annihilate them, like it's very inappropriate. - Yeah, it's like, it's like Elon Musk is obviously wrong and stupid. Like, it's just like, again, it goes back to like that core problem of like, we got a lot of stupid people out there and you gotta be careful. You can't give stupid people ideas. Like Elon Musk going crazy. So anyway, so that's bad. And then the other thing too is, well, I mean, okay, so, I just Google here that Google's chatbot gets things, like, or AI gets things wrong, about 27% of the time. - Wow, that's very high. - So yeah, I mean, could you imagine if, you know, 27% of-- - Over a quarter. - Yeah, that's a lot. It's gonna be a lot, you know, and like, you know, and, okay, just like another example, just for people who are curious, like, some people are Googling, how many rocks should I eat a day and then Google's response was at least one rock. And the thing is, is that the artificial intelligence got that information from an article from the onion. - Oh my God, that's funny. - And like, a lot of these funny answers that Google's AI is giving you is like, coming from like Reddit threads, you know, and, you know, this is just like, it's what you expected. - It's fascinating. Like, they're gonna have to learn how to separate from the trolling and satire and jokes from truth. - Yes, yes. And, you know, like, I guess, maybe, you know, some people already struggle with that online. Anyways, without the AI. - That's true, yeah. - But, you know, obviously, if you get like a bold answer at the very top, you know, like, from Google itself, you know, you're gonna trust it. - It lends a certain, like, authority and like, a sense of, like, officialness to it. - Yeah. - But, I wanna say though, like, I do think this, like, all this AI and competency and mistakes is this temporary, like, I really do think it's gonna improve very, very much, very quickly. So, I don't even know how long of a time this will be a problem for. But, I do think, like, these sort of things, impeter ability to research and think critically, like, we, even, when these, like, Gemini AI, like, summaries become more accurate and better, it might, you know, discourage us from seeking any further information. Like, we all know when we use Google, like, we only look at the first page or maybe the second page, we look at, like, the top results. We don't really bother to keep digging. And now I don't even know if we'll look at the results at all with the Google AI summaries. Like, the summaries are useful if they're good. But I think there's a very important -- there's a value to the discipline of research. And I think you have to spend time with research and I think you need to, like, go out of your way to, like, look. And like, it can be frustrating and time-consuming, but it ultimately is valuable. And I don't know, like, I wonder if we'll kind of lose that skill. Yeah. I mean, there's -- And it's fun. It's fun to discover and look for stuff. And we can go down a whole, whole rabbit hole here. But, you know, it does also raise another question of if AI is generating nonsensical answers based off information on the internet, is it possible that that nonsensical answer generated by an AI could down the line act as another data point for, like, a future AI model? It's just, like, you know what I mean? It's just like a never-ending cycle of, like, bad data that AI is using. I don't know. I have no idea how this works at all. But something tells me they'll fix this. They will. And that's another thing, too, is, like, you know, obviously whenever there's stuff like this, there's always, like, a little bit of, like, a backlash, like, you know, obviously, like, sometimes rightfully so, like, with Bitcoin, when everyone realized that Bitcoin was pointless, but, you know, like, AI is not Bitcoin. Like, the thing that is needed to make AI better is very straightforwardly just more computers. And more computing power is just, like, that's, like, not, like, a new innovation we need to generate. It's just literally, we just need to build more computers and that's going to happen. So AI is going to get better period, you know? Yeah. Still having very conflicting feelings about it, so we'll see. I agree. All right. Sophie. All right. I think we're at time. We want to do a recommendation. Oh, sure. Yeah. I recommend the book Kill on Mormies by Angela Nagel. It's a really interesting look into the, like, online culture wars between, like, the alt-right and the, like, like, liberal, like, Tumblr liberalism and then, like, the mainstream media and, like, neoconservative is conservatism and the 2016 election, and it's really well written in a page turner. It's about, like, a hundred pages I couldn't put it down. It was really great. And, yeah, that's my recommendation. Um, okay, I recommend, um, so I've been into, lately I've been into the classic Progressive Rock album Opalong by Jethro Tull. I don't know why, when I first listened to that album in high school, I was not into it at all, but now maybe, you know, maybe this is why it's called, like, Dad Rock, you know? Now that I'm, like, in my late 20s, I'm not a dad yet, but, yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting to, like, the age right now. Surprise, I'm pregnant. No. Yes. Yes. Um, um, no comment, but, um, I'm becoming, I'm, I'm, I'm getting a little bit older because I'm into, like, lame old prog rock now, but Opalong is a frickin dope album. I don't even care. So by Jethro Tull, classic album. All right. Sweet. Thank you guys for listening and watch out for some episodes coming out at a later date. The things that we want for your support. We really appreciate you. We are so grateful. We love all of you so much, and we're going to miss you while we take over the bridge. We're going to miss you all, but, you know, everyone needs to take a hashtag break sometimes and, yeah, it's a crazy time, so yeah, thank you guys. Love you all so much. This has been base news network. Bye bye.