Bradley Pierce: Modern Demonic Rituals and the Embrace of Human Sacrifice in Trump’s America

choice hotels get you more of what you value comfort in it's calling your name save on the stay oh and free waffles are yours to claim book direct at choicehotels.com riley pierce thanks for doing this yeah thanks for having me so what is abortion how would you describe abortion it's often described as health care reproductive rights and there's a whole cluster of euphemism barnacles attached to the word abortion but at its core what is abortion let's say it's a couple things you know biologically it is the destruction of a human life from fertilization each human being would you know we're unique have unique dna you just need the same things that every other human being needs just oxygen nutrients a safe place to live and grow and so abortion is murder it's destroying human life from the beginning um but spiritually it's it's also an attack against god um it's you know god says he creates each of us in his own image and so whenever you're committing an abortion you are attacking the very image of god by murdering someone made in his image so is it no different from any other kind of murder i think it's more heinous because the victim in this case is this is the most innocent human being among us yeah um and and in a place that's supposed to be um the safest place for a child to be and that's with their mother um and then the person who's committing you know by and large is you know behind the act is also supposed to be the person that the child can most trust the other thing is that the womb is the place where christ entered the world and so it's a it's a place it's not just like any other place this is a very special place and to to go into that place and to commit murder of the most innocent human beings among us is is a tremendous evil scripture calls this a child sacrifice that we're when we when we're murdering children like this just on the altar of our own convenience or or whatever it may be in exchange for power right which is what human sacrifice has always done in exchange for um so my sense is but i think you've got a clearer picture that the state of abortion in the united states more abortions per capita than you know societies had anywhere in the world 100 years ago and still one of the higher in the world is that true that is true actually in america there there's over 1.1 million abortions in 2025 um and a lot 1.1 million 1.1 million just right here in this country so because this happens in the United States and in the United States and in the United and clinics, these are all reported, I guess. It's not the same as it used to be, right? So, Dobbs overturned Roe versus Wade. Yes. So, a lot of things changed then, but there's still people that are tracking the abortion numbers, but they're no longer all happening in clinics. So, now about two-thirds to 80% of abortions are happening by the abortion pill. Some of these are acquired from clinics, others are ordered online, and people do self-induced abortions at home. But even those numbers are still tracked by the organizations that are providing those pills and by other organizations. 1.1 million in one year out of a population of 340-ish. Right. Wow, that's an unbelievable number. From, I don't know, Rome until 1973, when. When Roe v. Wade became law, what was the view of people in the West of abortion? Was it common? Was it accepted? Was it considered a human right? Was it considered integral to bodily sovereignty? Like, how did people think about abortion? You know, you see abortion, like even in the Hippocratic Oath, even going back, you know, to Greece, you see abortion, the doctor, everyone's heard the Hippocratic Oath, you know, do no harm, right? But part of the Hippocratic Oath is actually, I will not. I will not produce a pessary, which is a substance to. An abortification. induce an abortion. Right, exactly. And so, that said, you know. Wait, so the Hippocratic Oath, which is, we have been told and are still told, is the framework for modern medicine, the moral framework for modern medicine, specifically bans abortion. Right, exactly. So, how did the medical establishment, which is the most enthusiastic of all about abortion, they love abortion for some reason. How do they get around that? You know, I think they just focus on the words, "Do no harm," and they just. They rewrote the oath. They just rewrote it, exactly. They took that out. Yeah. Yeah, the Rome, ancient Rome, you had, there were certainly discarding of children, that was happening, right, under pagan Rome, when they would expose children, they'd go leave them in the woods and things like that, and it was Christians who would go and rescue those children, and adopt them as their own children, and raise them. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we certainly had people killing children, even in the West, for a long time. But then, as the West became Christianized, right, then we see that even the early church fathers, they're saying abortion is murder, abortion is evil. Really? Yes, and very, very clear on that. And so, you see abortion really, as the West continues to Christianize, becoming something that, "Oh, yeah, well, of course you don't do that. You know, of course that should be, that should be against the law." So, for almost 2,000 years, that was the consensus. Right, yes. How'd that change so fast? You know, I'm sure there are lots of reasons, you know, I think whenever we reduce man to no longer being made in the image of God, right, when we devalue mankind, man and woman and child, and we say that we're, you know, we're just the product of slime, or we're the product of monkeys, or what have you. And you devalue life, right, whenever you separate the creation from the creator, that's whenever, you know, all manner of things, right? That's what we do, right? That's how we oppress other human beings. We somehow devalue them and make them into subhumans, so that way we feel more comfortable oppressing them. And that's what we've done here. They're here to boost GDP. They're not really human. Right. Yeah, they're units. Right. Well, you certainly see a lot of that. I don't think you could wage modern war. If you considered other people human. Right. I mean, a weapon of mass destruction, you're killing people who did nothing wrong. I mean, you can't, they can't defend that. Right, right. And yet many, many, many people do, including people who vote for the same candidates I vote for. So it's kind of amazing how universal that view is in the United States. It's not just the radical left. Right. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, people are not just, like you said, units or means to an end. I mean, we are priceless. Not because any of us are. And great on our own. Like, you know, but because we're made in the image of God, we're made in his image, and he's the one who's made us. And so that's where our value comes from. And whenever we deny that, then we're denying the value that goes along with that. So if you were to pull the topic and say 1940 on the eve of the Second World War in the United States, is it, would 1.1 million abortions be okay with you? What would you guess people would say? I think, I think you would see people would be, we were already seeing decline of Christianity and decline of Christian morals even then. But I, but I think there was still plenty of it left that people would say, "Oh, well, of course not." In fact, even Margaret Sanger, who's the, you know, founder of Planned Parenthood herself. Now you could question her motives for this, but even she was. I think we know her motives. Even she was actually against abortion. She was like, now it may have been to try to push people more towards. You know, her contraceptive birth control, or what she called contraceptive birth control. But she was actually against abortion, at least for a while. Really? Yes. Yeah. But, but yeah, I think, I think if you were to go back there, I think most people would say, "Oh, of course we're against that. Of course that shouldn't happen. 1.1 million." At the beginning of the Soviet Union, it's interesting that among the very first things the Soviet government did was to ban Christianity. Torture and kill priests, close all the churches, and legalize abortion. And those seem connected. Right. Well, yes, I mean, you see communism is really, right, it's just the government, it's just humanism, right, that's applied ultimately to the government. And, and so, yeah, humanism devalue, ultimately devalues human beings. And that's what leads to abortion. Humanism devalues human beings. How? Right. Because. Because it's, it basically, right, because our value comes from God, whenever we divorce our value from God, that's actually devaluing. We're now saying that, okay, we are not made in the image of God. We don't have this divine, you know, eternal souls. And so, this life is all that there is. Well, then people are just this disposable product. And, and it, it, it says, well, we're going to elevate human beings to basically be gods, right, to say, well, we are our own savior. But it ultimately has the opposite effect, it ultimately devalues human beings. Interesting. So you get to your thirties or forties or beyond, and things can start to feel a little bit off. 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That's joinautopilot.com. Investing has risks like the loss of principal. So before Christianity, before 33 AD approximately, human sacrifice was just absolutely universal around the world. And every ancient civilization ever studied, as far as I know, shows evidence of human sacrifice. And the question is why? Why would people come up independently from each other? These are different continents. A religious worship that is obviously anti-evolutionary. Like, you could see an argument for sacrificing the elderly because they're a burden. They can't, you know, contribute, but they do consume. But you could never see from an evolutionary perspective, it makes zero sense why you would sacrifice, like, babies. Why would you do that? Especially if you're not starving to death. And so, but every culture, every single culture did that. Right. Europe, Scandinavia, North Africa, South America, Australia, Africa, Asia, all of them. And Christianity ended that. And by the way, Torah, Judaism, like Moses was very consistent. But why, why did they all do that? What do you think the answer is? You know, I mean, I think ultimately, you know, there's, there's, there's Christ and there's Satan. And although those who are not children of God are children of Satan and bound in our, you know, we're all born in sin. We're bound in our sin. And, but for the grace of God, that's where we would all remain. And, and we are then slaves to sin and slave then to, to Satan. And, and he loves child sacrifice. He loves destroying and attacking the image of God. And so, when those who are still lost in their sin, they love that too. And then they follow these idols who are just demons. Scripture says repeatedly, these are demons. You're worshiping demons and sacrificing their children to demons is what scripture says. And so, the demons call for, you know, blood sacrifice. And so, that's what, that's what leads to that. The demons call for blood sacrifice. Right. There, repeatedly in what Christians refer to as the Old Testament, God describes human sacrifice as the thing he finds especially repugnant. Or am I misreading that? No, I think that's very, very true. We see this, even in, you know, there's, when God's bringing the Hebrews out of Egypt into the promised land, he actually says, I'm, I'm giving this land, not because you're so great, but because the people in it are so wicked, they're so evil. And he lists the three, three different places. He lists the reasons why he's driving them out of the land. And he says, you know, of course, idolatry, worshiping false gods, and then sexual immorality, sexual perversion, sodomy, things like that. Um, witchcraft as well. But then the one thing that's in all three lists is the only thing found in all three lists for why he's driving out the Canaanites before them is child sacrifice, child sacrifice. And he says that the land, that the blood of the innocent cries out and that the land, because of that, vomits its inhabitants out of it. And again, God says that, and if you do the same thing that the Canaanites are doing, that the land will also vomit you out as well. How could any modern Christian or religious Jew support abortion then, given that it says that? You have to be either deceived or biblically illiterate or. Well, I'm pretty biblically illiterate. I've just read it by myself and it just screams right off the page. Well, you've done more than a lot of people. No, I haven't done that much. Just read it, you know, by myself. And even I, I'm sure I missed 99% of what's in there, but even I'm like, ooh, God is against human sacrifice. Right. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how could you miss that? I don't know. Again, I think just people's eyes are blinded to that or, I mean, we're still, there's still sin that corrupts people and blinds their vision. And, but again, that's why we had, we seek the Holy Spirit and we seek to read his word and ask him to help us understand it. But to me, that's something that it should be clear to everyone who claims to be a Christian. So when God says to the Hebrews, I'm giving you this land because I'm kicking out the current, its current occupants, because, and the main reason is human sacrifice, or one of the three reasons is human sacrifice. We're learning that there are consequences for doing this, not just in the hereafter, but now. Right. Do you see that theme? Absolutely. Again, God says that, he says, he'll vomit, the land will vomit you out, speaking to the Israelites. And then we see this not only, but there, but throughout, right? That that's how the end eventually comes, you know, in Israel, there's, there's always, in fact, after King David, we have King Solomon. Right. And he does wicked, his wives lead him astray as he gets older. And he builds the high places, including one to Molech, which is, which is a, you know, false demon God that, that people sacrifice. It's a child sacrifice cult. Child sacrifice cult. Immediately, right there. And then God, and because Solomon does that, God says, I'm going to rip the kingdom out of your hands, but I'm not going to do it during your, during your life, Solomon, because of the sake of your father, David. But I'm going to rip it out, you know, from your son. And, and divides the kingdom after that, because of child sacrifice. Well, not just divides the kingdom. I mean, as, as, can you just describe what happened next? I mean, he destroyed the temple, carried the people off and slaved them. Right. Yeah. I mean, it ultimately led to. Yeah. Yes. A lot of, yeah, exactly. All of that. The, because you then see later, you know, Manasseh, another king that's sacrificing his own children. Then God says, that's at a certain point, God says, all right, the judgment is coming. I'm taking you all out. You're going to be carried off into a foreign land. Temple's going to be destroyed. And then there is one king who is a good king, Josiah, who abolishes a lot of those things. And God says, I'm going to stay judgment. But it's. It's just temporary. I'm still bringing the judgment. But because of your faithfulness, I'm going to. Wait, did he bring the judgment too? For real? Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah, that's very, very clear. So, in fact, it's so clear that, again, I remain baffled that anybody, I mean, I can understand why people who don't believe in God or believe in, you know, a pagan religion might support it. But anyone who identifies as a Christian. Or a Jew can't support that, right? That seems very clear to me. Yeah. Huh. So, what do you think? I mean, there are plenty of Christian leaders. There are Christian denominations that support it. Right. You know, I think there's always. heresies, there's always false gospels, there's always false teachings and I think we see that today. I think Satan even uses that, right? Comes clothed as an angel of light, but then leads people astray. So I think there's a lot of preachers, a lot of pastors out there who are either not feeding their sheep, meaning they're teaching on all these other things, but they're avoiding that issue, or they're feeding them lies. I think there's a lot of that going on. You said that the king who sacrificed his own children, that was especially offensive to God? Right, right. So leaders who'd be willing to sacrifice their own kids, that's when you know things are completely falling apart spiritually. Like turning their own kids trans, castrating their own kids, that would be a sign. Again, that's one of the many reasons that God brings judgment as a sexual perversion as well, and doing that and then doing that, inflicting that on your own children. Yeah, God takes that very seriously. So as you look around at a world in chaos with wars and rumors of wars and famine and natural disasters and all the stuff that's happening now or feels imminent now, do you see a connection? And before you answer the question, in case you're feeling like I'm putting you in an uncomfortable situation, I just want to say, on the record as clearly as possible, I see a connection. So I just want you not to feel like you're alone, if you agree. I mean, I think that God governs in the affairs of man. That God, and God will not be mocked. Whatever man sows, that he'll also reap. Now there's, for individuals, right, there is, we can repent, believe in Christ, and we can be saved from our sins, and we can have eternal life. But then God not only has the judgment, but also has the judgment. We can have eternal life. But then God not only has the judgment for individuals who don't do that, but he also has the judgment for nations. God says he judges nations. When the nations fall away and follow false gods and promote child sacrifice and other things like that, God brings judgment on nations. And we see even in Romans 1, we see when, and it begins with a denial of God as a creator, right? A denial of God for being who he is. That is, he's God. He's created all things. He sustains all things. Whenever we deny that, then he starts turning us over to our own debased mind. And that leads to further and further depravity and further and further insanity. And I think that's what we're seeing across the world. And it's especially, you know, grievous in countries that may still call themselves Christian. But. You said it leads to depravity, which leads to insanity? Well, we said. See, God, in Romans 1, God says that whenever they're no longer grateful to him as their creator, then God turns them over to a debased mind and even describes them, you know, committing men committing acts with men and all that sort of thing. And then it just continues into, I believe it's describing, you know, what I would call, maybe what people today would call mental health crisis. Right? Anxiety, depression, and a lot of the things that we see today. That's why we need more SSRIs, Bradley. That's the solution. Is that the case you're making? That's the solution right there. And then when the suicide rate goes up, we'll just ignore it. Right. Yeah. So the key to protecting yourself and the people you love is making sure that you can act on a moment's notice. So having your gun locked in a safe at the back corner of the basement is not going to help if you have a sudden problem. You've got to get to it fast. How do you solve the problem? Well, we recommend Stopbox. The Stopbox Pro is a game changer for firearm storage. It provides real protection, but doesn't slow you down when you need your gun right away. It works on a really simple principle. It's completely mechanical. 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Tax Relief Advocates, real solutions for real people. as a sponsor um i think it's dawned on a lot of leaving aside questions about pharma and its intent or its role in our country i think a lot of people are starting to conclude at very least the solutions that we have to the so-called mental health crisis are not working obviously they're not working right and so maybe it's bigger than just a mental health crisis maybe there's something undergirding it right that's bigger than just your individual mental health Right. So Roe v. Wade becomes law in 1973, six years after a decision called Griswold v. Connecticut, in which the court recognizes a right to privacy. Right. And that's the basis upon which they decided Roe, as you well know. But for most of the time Roe was enforced, privacy wasn't really the right that was invoked. It was a more general freedom and sovereignty over your own body. It's my body. It's my choice. Right. And that lasted all the way until 2021 when we found out that just because it's your body doesn't mean it's your choice because you have to take the COVID vax. So, like, clearly that doesn't mean anything. Right, right. So, the new idea was it's just good. And without it, we have no economic opportunity. We'll never, we'll be poor without abortion. Right. What do you think of those arguments? You know, I mean, obviously, the original Griswold versus Connecticut, that there's some right to privacy in between the lines, you know, in the penumbra of the Constitution. I wish there was a right to privacy. I wish I was free to go shoot every flock camera with a 12-gauge, but I'm not. Right. There's no right to privacy in a mass surveillance state, apparently. Right, yes. There's certainly some rights that relate to privacy, the Fourth Amendment, things like that, but not some generic, you know, we can twist it however we want. I never understood, what does privacy have to do with abortion? Well, and I guess it's, you know, well, the Griswold originally was about contraception. Right. And so there you could kind of see like, okay, well, I guess, you know, what did man and woman do in their own bedroom and that sort of thing. Although it was, again, it was just planting the seeds that led to then Roe versus Wade. And I guess there they're saying that, well, that's a private decision, you know, by someone, by a woman and her doctor. But yeah, it seems bizarre. And again, now at this point, the Supreme Court agrees that, yeah, that was an unconstitutional decision to begin with. And so, you know, so now we no longer have Roe, which was, it was a bad decision. It needed to go, but it hasn't solved the underlying issue. Yeah. And I think, I mean, Roe to some extent was a sideshow because even I think honest legal analysts would, would tell you not on camera, it's an absurd decision. It was just a political decision made by a court whose job is to interpret the constitution. It's not, it's, it's embarrassing. Even if you're in love with abortion, you know, you could admit that. So now it's gone. It was always going to be overturned because it was just too silly to stand as, as a matter of legal reasoning as you know right but it does since it's gone it raises the question what is the justification for abortion because abortion is most americans say they support legal abortion but abortion itself remains so unpopular that no one can talk about it no one can talk openly about abortions because it would be if you were sitting at a dinner party and you describe what an abortion actually was like a medical abortion. - Right. - People would hate you and leave because it resonates with everybody, no matter how pro-choice you are. - Right. - Like you recognize that's horrible. Everyone knows abortion's horrible. And that's why it requires so much linguistic gymnastics to get it down your throat. - Right. - Right, so what is now the justification for it? it like it's more common than ever yeah because why you know i think and i i i think it's becoming less and less um shameful you know talk about abortion there's whole movements like shout your abortion and people on tiktok celebrating their abortions and and again i think this is as we descend you know this this moral um you know this moral deaths that we're going into um i think that's what we see we see people no longer ashamed of their sin you know celebrating it even you know um making abortion cakes and all kind of things and i've heard people from people who are even you know have been connected with abortion clinics and they say used to the women coming in would be very um you know ashamed and but now many of them are just brazen dancing outside the clinic i mean there's videos you can go see videos of this online um that people are much more brazen than they used to be so i have the opposite impression i feel like it's about to end abortion i feel like everybody i feel people dancing in front of abortion clinics are compensating for what they know to be true right everybody knows it's killing everybody knows that right and to the extent they praise abortion it's because they know they're lying and so they have to kind of dress it up right right and i feel like i'm not sure that everyone agrees that the nation is being punished for abortion which i fervently believe it seems obvious to me but i think people will begin to understand that i feel like we're i feel like 50 years from now there's gonna be way less abortion people will be doing it in secret because everything returns to nature in the end i'd like to believe that you know and certainly that's what we're working toward um we're working toward the abolition of abortion and we'd like to see that you know i think that it has to be for the right reasons i think ultimately you know we have to what has to be for the right reasons even abolishing abortion i think has to be for the right reasons now what would be the wrong reason well i mean if again if we're doing it for some of the same reasons that got us here in the first place right if we're saying well well we're going to you know our our birth rates getting too low we really need for our economy we really need oh you know we're doing it for instead of doing it for reasons of you know what this is wrong before god we need to repent of this and let's stop doing this that he that he hates instead of that being the reason but it's it it being well we just let's you know what i think it'd be better economy if we just stop murdering our own children um if you can trace all decline to killing which i think you can i think killing is the one is the one thing you know that you're really not supposed to do is kill that is the one power that you don't have that god has that power he reserves it for himself so it the the two mass killings the u.s just brought participated in or won the dropping of the bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki in august of 45 and then beginning in 73 mass abortion and you just can't say it's a better country since then i mean you have 70 over 70 million children have been killed so you think there's no consequence with that it's 70 million souls that we didn't create no i think that there is a consequence yeah but i just think it's gonna like dawn on people like yeah what as everything goes wrong at once i don't know if i give people as much credit i mean apart from the fact that we're from the grace of god i mean by the grace of god you know then then i think yes well i had someone tell me that who i thought was kind of secular reese i was telling you off camera recently said to me well this is obviously punishment for abortion it's like whoa i thought i was the only person who thought that right i think it's more obvious than i had imagined so how are you trying to abolish it so we're working you know um i mean first of all we have to trust god right god's the only one who's going to abolish it um and and so we're we're trying to do what he says his ways and so in scripture god says that we should do justice for the fatherless and that we should have justice without partiality so we have this even in our constitution 14th amendment no state should deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws right equal protection just means equal protection of the law just means impartial justice yes and so so we think that's that's biblical well we should be doing that but right now today in all 50 states it is legal for a woman to order abortion pills and take abortion pills to murder her child has the current administration done anything about that i haven't seen anything you know bradley they have the white house the supreme court and both chambers of the congress right this party that i'm sure you voted for them your whole life i certainly have to the extent i voted every vote i've ever cast i regret i just want to say that i'll make a quick case against voting but anyway no just kidding sort of but um but anyway they could do something about it but has there been any effort to do anything about it nothing substantial i mean nothing dealing with the actual root issue no um and it's something that we actually sent a letter our organization to president trump uh a year or in january on the year anniversary of his term um calling on him to he's actually spoken you know some things favorably about about abortion and um you know calling on him to repent for those things and then calling on him to to a number of policy um things that he could do as president should do you know there's he could certainly the most obvious is just the bully pulpit right i'm thinking back during the biden administration you know halfway in the middle we have these midterms and we just had dobbs in that overturns row and then the democrats are using abortion issue to try to regain power so the midterms end up being you know not what the republicans expected them to be uh and um and then trump immediately responds to that and says it's because of abortion you know we're being too strong on abortion oh yeah and he felt that way strongly yeah and he's he made that very clear and even the even the uh what i'm saying is he wasn't advised by his political staff that's like not the product of you know testing they did he he feel he feels that he feels that the anti-abortion people are a huge liability it definitely seems like that well it's true yeah owning a home has always been the core of the american dream it's the asset that families work their lives to build place of stability security and actual wealth but too many homeowners right now are stuck swiping credit cards to cover groceries paying a survival tax of 20 interest or more so we're against that we always say that but you can't buy a house without 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hundred five seven six forty seven oh five that's eight hundred five seven six forty seven oh five tax relief advocates real solutions for real people tax tucker and you saw that at the republican national convention right after he wins the nom or when he you know takes a nomination you know they rip a lot of the abortion language out of the rnc platform and and they weaken it weaken it and soften it on the issue of abortion yeah and so you know so there's things like that that and he's spoken very um you know even the florida amendment in his home state the that um would have un you know created a basically a right to abortion there in their constitution um yeah he kind of spoke somewhat favorably toward it and then he got a lot of backlash and finally spoke against it very but not in a very strong way he loves abortion fact people hate it when you say that because there's so many good-hearted pro-lifers who voted for him, but that's just a fact. - Well, and it's something that, You know, it's something that we have to be willing to vote on that issue, you know. And if people are not going to act correctly on that issue, then we can't be giving them our vote. That has to be a line in the sand for us. And because like we've gotten back to, I mean, our civilization depends upon it. I agree with that. Pleasing God and not incurring his judgment depends upon that. Yeah, you don't see civilizations that practice human sacrifice. Thriving. No. No. Definitely not. It's the problem with Haiti. It's the problem with Africa because it's still so common there. And of course, everyone pretends it's not common there. It is common there. If you've been there, you know that. And so, but yeah, our civilization depends on it. So, you've petitioned the Trump administration to do something by executive order. Right. Yeah, by the bully pulpit, by also the Comstock Act. You know, it prohibits. It's been around for over 100 years. It prohibits the mailing of abortion pills, abortion medication, among a lot of other things. And the Biden administration said, you know, we're not going to enforce that and put out a memo on that. And the Trump administration has just continued the same policy of the Biden administration that we're not going to enforce that. Yes. Yeah. And they, so what's happening is against federal law, but the administration is just allowing it to happen anyway? Exactly. Because why? Because they're just not enforcing the Comstock Act. Can you do that? I mean, that the president. Not enforce a law? The president can choose not to enforce the law. Yes. Well, so how is the rule of law? Well, because Congress is not holding him accountable, ultimately. And because also the people are not holding him accountable. No one is demanding. No one. There's not a significant voice, you know, demanding that he enforce it. And so, it's not happening. And there's other things that he should be doing as well. We should be putting pressure on the states to provide equal protection. And. And if the states won't do it, then the Federal Congress should be doing that. And Trump should be calling for that, saying, I want a bill on my desk, you know, providing equal protection for children, enforcing the 14th Amendment. But he's not doing any of those things. Huh. Have you ever known anyone who's had an abortion? Um, I know I do. I'm not thinking right off, but yes. And every single one has suffered. Actually, I can think of several. Yes. I've never seen anybody. I've never seen anybody who didn't suffer, like, for real. Yeah. Like, in some cases, life-destroying suffering. Do you think that's true? I think you cannot commit an act like that and be the same and be unscathed. I think that that's, it goes to your very soul, especially if this is your own child as well. Yeah. So, how do you raise, who do you raise money from? Like, who opposes abortion? Who opposes abortion enough to send you money at this point? You know, I mean, Christians who believe what we're talking about, Christians who believe that this is what we as Christians should be doing. You know, the scripture talks about Proverbs 24, 11, rescue those who are being carried to the slaughter. Yeah. And if you faint in the day of adversity, your strength is small. And so, there are many Christians across this country. We call ourselves abolitionists. We're trying to abide. We're trying to abolish abortion. And there are many Christians across the country who they see this. This is something near and dear to the heart of God. Not just the protection of innocent life, but also justice. God cares deeply about justice. The Bible says that righteousness and justice are the foundations of his throne. In fact, even Jesus going to the cross is about justice. Because all this sin of humanity, it has to be paid for. Someone has to pay the price for that. And he goes and he pays that price for all his people. And he fulfills and satisfies justice. And that the resurrection is so glorious because it's an indication that justice has been satisfied. So, God cares about justice. And so, Christians should care about justice as well. Justice and protection of innocent life. Where's public opinion polling on this question of abolition? Yeah, we haven't seen a lot of polls, but we have seen some recently that have been very positive. They've shown progress. So, for example, we had a bill in Tennessee earlier this year. It was the very first bill of equal protection that has been introduced in Tennessee. And there was polling that came out before that that talked about, you know, do you support a woman facing, you know, criminal penalties for committing an abortion? And the polling was showing, and that was a poll of just conservative likely voters. And it was showing about 16% support. But then the bill that we were behind. Abolition is supported was introduced. And it got a lot of media attention from across the country and even internationally. And that we had, there was supposed to be a committee hearing, but then it didn't end up happening. Anyways, it turned into a big deal. And there was a poll done by Vanderbilt shortly thereafter. And it wasn't just of conservatives. It was all likely voters. And it showed 24% support for the same issue. For what we call equal protection. And that is that the same laws that provide, that protect the lives of born people should protect the lives of pre-born people. So there's already laws on the books, right? There's already laws against murdering people in every state. So we're just saying those same laws should protect people from fertilization. And no one should get an exception for that. Murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone, including the mother. And then we let the justice system sort out on a case-by-case basis. Wouldn't it be easier to prosecute the mother? Well, in some states, there are no more abortion doctors performing abortions. And in fact, across the country, like I said, between 65% to 80% of abortions, there's not a doctor. It's self-induced. The woman is taking the abortion pill herself. She's the abortionist. Who makes the abortion pill? So there's different folks that create that based out of India and Austria and Africa that are manufactured. They're manufacturing abortion pills and then shipping them in. Some of them are shipped directly to the women. Some of them, or most of them at this point, are going through different abortion clinics and abortion doctors. Are there any American pharma companies that make them? As far as manufacturing them, not that I'm aware of. It can happen here in the United States. And is that true internationally? Abortion has been replaced by pills? By and large, yes. That's right. So what is it? It ended up happening after Roe v. Wade was overturned by Dobbs. We saw a number of states had these trigger bills that went into effect. There's now 13 states where abortion, we call them provider bans. Abortion providers are outlawed. The rise of Planned Parenthood can't perform abortions in these states. And then another four states now that have six-week provider bans, so heartbeat bills. But yet, abortion pills are still completely legal. You can still. Order abortion pills, and you can still take abortion pills in all of those states. No state has banned them? Well, states have banned the abortion pills, you know, being provided or manufactured within the state. But the issue is that the abortion pills are coming from outside the state. And because the males, that's a federal issue, it's not a state issue, the U.S. male, then the states can't do anything to stop the abortion pills from coming in. How do they work? Do you know? Yeah, so there's. The typical abortion pill regimen first is that the woman takes mifepristone, and that is supposed to cause the death of the child, to stop the child from growing, to kill them. And then they take misoprostol, which is to induce delivery of the child, separation from the uterus and delivery of the child. And so that's how they work. Now, there's also, you can do abortions without the first pill and just deliver the child. Um, you know, without, without them dying first. Oh, it's so gruesome. Yeah. And how late in term can you take these pills? So, they're, the FDA, I think, says it's either, uh, it's 10 to 12 weeks, I believe. But there's people taking them well beyond that. Uh, because it's, there's, there's people that are even taking them 21, 22 weeks. There are even some twins. There's pictures even. There's these twins from Texas that a woman aborted. Um, she just kept taking the pills and, um, and aborted these two, two babies at, I believe, 21 weeks. Yeah. In fact, we've ordered abortion pills one time and the, uh, there's an insert that kind of came with it. And it said, you know, if you're between this many weeks and this many weeks, do this, between this and this, do this. And it said, if, if you're 13 plus weeks, then you just keep taking four of these. Until the baby comes out. Then, then there was no, like, cap on that. Just 13 plus. So, it's three in the afternoon. You've had your coffee, but you're still staring blankly at your screen. Rereading the same line, waiting for energy because you're just enervated. It's the afternoon slump. And that's why we're excited to partner with Trumi. So, Trumi makes gummy supplements made out of mushrooms. I know. It sounds like the spooky ones. But these are not the mushrooms you're thinking of. These are the mushrooms you're thinking of. thinking of. These are the ones you in your soup, the legal ones. Trumi makes products for the basics, energy, focus, calm, sleep. It's all made in America. 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So on a practical level, I mean, even if the Comstock Act were enforced, I mean, you can order, you know, a pound of cocaine online, actually, and have it delivered. Right. You can order whatever you want online. It's pretty hard to get caught. Right. And there's all sorts of other, you know, again, if the hypocrite of the oath was talking about this, you know, we've had different ways, different herbs and things like that to kill babies for a long time. Of course. Yeah. For thousands of years. So again, you can, and that's why the issue really is about the abortion demand, right? And that's why, you know, just going after the doctors is not going to solve it because the doctors are just supply, right? And the pills are just supply. The abortion demand is by the mothers and oftentimes, you know, by fathers. By fathers, you know, as well, pressuring them into it. That's where the demand happens. And so how do you deal with the demand? There's really two ways to deal with it. Obviously, the way we would all love to deal with the demand is that these people would change their minds, right? That they would, their eyes would be open. They would say, oh, what am I doing? What am I thinking about doing? I'm murdering my child. That they would, that they would be saved from their sin and become Christians, right? And believe in Christ and say, well, God hates this. I'm going to hate this, right? That's, that would be ideal. But why do we have laws? Because not everybody, that's not where everybody is, right? We have laws that, that then have penalties to restrain people, right? People who would otherwise be committing these harms and doing these evils. We have laws. And so that's how we deal with the demand is we deter it by threats of penalties, right? That's what keeps people from, you know, murdering a whole lot more. There's a, there are, there are laws that would deter people from committing abortion. And so that's what we need as well for this. This, again, we already have laws against murder. All that they just need to apply from fertilization. Then that would then deter people from committing abortion in the first place. There's so many post-abortive women who are abolitionists, who support equal protection and who say, just with tears in their eyes, tears in their eyes, they say, I want to be a woman. I wish it had been illegal. Yeah. I wish I could have been prosecuted because then I never would have done it in the first place. Well, I mean, and how many former drug addicts do you know? I know a number of them who are grateful they got arrested and went to jail. Right. Yeah. And a lot of us, me included, you know, spent years arguing against imprisoning drug users because it's mean and the real problem is supply and all this stuff. And I really felt that way. And I feel like we imprisoned too many people already and the wrong people and, but I fell for that completely. And then, you know, you go to meetings with these people and I'm like, thank God I wound up in jail or I'd be dead. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think most drug addicts who get arrested are thankful to be arrested, but some are the ones who recover are. Right. And I think you're, I think you make a compelling case. What do people say when you say that? Well, I think you're the average pro-life person who says, yeah, of course I agree with that. But the, isn't that what the pro-life movement's doing? Isn't that what pro-life leaders? I don't think I've ever met a bigger group of frauds in the pro-life movement with some major exceptions, but sorry, did I say that? Sorry. No, it stings because I actually believe in it. So I feel betrayed, I guess. Right. Do you recognize that sentiment? Absolutely. Well, and in fact, I felt that myself. How? So I remember back 2011, I've been, I've been a lawyer for four years and I have a lot of friends, you know, in Texas, there was this bill, you may remember it, that it was a, there was a huge filibuster by Wendy Davis wearing the pink shoes on the, the Texas Senate floor, this bill that would have done three things, 20 week ban, a, and then requiring hospital admitting privileges for abortion doctors, and then requiring abortion clinics to have meet surgery center standards. And I remember a lot of my friends going down to the Capitol and rallying for this. And then I think there were something like 20,000, uh, pro-abortion forces wearing, or they were wearing orange and the pro-lifers were wearing blue and there's a sea of orange. And anyways, it's turned into a big deal. And I had lots of friends that were down there and I thought about going down there and I'd say, well, I'm a lawyer now. I'd started writing some legislation on some different topics. This is actually 2013, 2011. I started writing legislation, but 2013, this bill comes up and, uh, I'm like, well, I'm going to go read the bill. And I look at this bill and I'm like, there's something about this. What are we doing here? And it feels like we're dehumanizing the child, you know, and it feels like we're bowing down to Roe versus Wade, right? We're legitimizing Roe versus Wade here. And, um, so I just kind of was off. I just was put off by the actual way the bills were written. Then in 2015, I had a friend that, um, he started working for a Texas legislator and his boss said, Hey, we should just outlaw abortion. Can you go talk to the, you know, forget Roe versus Wade, let's just outlaw abortion. Uh, can you go talk to the pro-life groups here in Texas and, and tell them I'm thinking about doing a bill like that. Would they support it? And he went to them and came back and reported to his boss. And then he told me, and he said, I went to those groups and I said, this is what we're wanting to do. Would you support that? And they said, not only would we not support that, we would oppose that. So the anti-abortion groups are opposed to outlawing abortion? They are. Tell me how that works, Bradley Pierce. Yeah. So they, they oppose, they oppose equal protection, right? So they, they oppose, um, they oppose making the law apply equally to everybody to restrain women from committing abortion. So if you go look at that, and this is what, at that time, I was like, wait, what's going on? Started, a friend and I started looking at the laws in Texas and we found in 2003, and this, this isn't just Texas. I mean, this is lots of states are like this. In fact, every state, every pro-life state has something along the lines of what I'm about to describe. And, but we looked at laws in Texas, 2003, Texas passes a law that says that the definition of a person, of an individual person, is not a law. And so we looked at the laws in Texas, and we found that the definition of a person, of an individual person, is not a law. And so we looked at the laws in Texas, 2003, Texas passes a law that says that the definition of a person, of an individual person, is not a law. It's now at fertilization, which is great. That's wonderful. We're like, hey, this is great. So now you go look at, okay, well, then what is murder is intentionally causing the death or knowingly causing the death of an individual. So wait a second. So abortion is murder. It's already defined as murder in Texas law. But you know what they did in the exact same bill that they defined life as the beginning of fertilization? They added in another section to the law that says this homicide, this criminal homicide chapter does not apply to conduct committed by the mother of the unborn child. That's what they, that's what the, and I was like, surely that was a Democrat. Surely a Democrat put that in there. But no, it was the pro-life groups that put that in there, and it was pushed by pro-life Republican politicians and signed by a pro-life governor. All of them providing total immunity for women to abort. Again, not just women who, right, not just those who, well, they don't know what they're doing or they're coerced. No, just blanket immunity to all women who abort their own children. Why would they do that? And I wondered that. I thought maybe it was because of Roe v. Wade. But then in 2022, we had an equal protection bill in Louisiana. And just a few days before there was going to be a committee hearing on it, a few days before that, the Supreme Court opinion in Dobbs leaks out, right? And so everyone's like, oh, Dobbs is about to overturn Roe v. Wade. This bill provides equal protection. What's stopping us now from providing equal protection? We can't say it's the Supreme Court anymore. So we go to the committee hearing, and the equal protection bill just sails through. Seven to two vote in favor of the bill. It's headed to the House floor the next week in 2022. In that intervening week, pro-life leaders, pro-life organizations start pressuring the politicians to oppose Trump. A bill that would abolish abortion. And just a few hours before the vote was to take place, or let me back up. So a friend of mine, Brian Gunter, he had worked with Louisiana Right to Life, and then they weren't supporting equal protection, so he kind of spun off, started lobbying for this on his own. He calls all the legislature, calls all the legislators, says, are you going to vote for this bill? Vast majority are going to vote for it. They're going to support equal protection. Of course. It makes sense. Yeah, it's murder. Why should anybody get away with murder? And he's like, all right, we got the votes. Then just a few hours before the vote came up, this letter drops on the desk of all these legislatures, all these legislators. And it's from 77 pro-life organizations saying, we oppose this. They're saying that, well, the woman is a victim. The woman's a victim. Yeah, I believe that. Also a perpetrator. Both. Both can be true. Both often are true, by the way. Both can be true. That's right. And so they say, yeah, they say that she's a victim and that no legislator should ever support any legislation that would in any way criminalize a woman. And these are National Right to Life, Susan B. Anthony, and a whole lot of state Right to Life groups, and a whole lot of others. But I don't understand the thinking there. Yeah. There's this kind of dogma in a lot of the, again, this is not like your average pro-life person, like average pro-life voter thinks, wait, why shouldn't it be legal for women? Why shouldn't it be illegal for women to murder their children? That seems kind of obvious. But the pro-life leadership in a lot of these organizations, they say, well, women are second victims of abortion. Again, not just in a, like, well, yeah, everybody's been lied to and deceived and misled and things like that. I feel like we're all victims. We're all victims and perpetrators simultaneously of almost every bad thing that we do. Exactly. But the question is, we're still perpetrators as well as victims. Exactly. And then legally, it's, you know, the fact that someone lied to you is not an excuse for you committing a crime. In late October, AI bot hackers launched millions of cyber attacks across the world, and governments worldwide suddenly took down their websites to protect them. So think about that. That means government can't keep its own systems running. That makes you wonder. You wonder about your own bank account. How is that safe from the next cyber attack? So if it wasn't clear before October, it should be clear now. You need some of your wealth outside of the system. And for thousands of years, there has been a consistent solution to that. 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We are taking a tiny percentage. We are transparent about that. We're not selling you gold at twice the spot price. We're selling it like three points over spot price and making it very, very easy for you. So buy gold and silver at fair, transparent prices at Battalion Metals. BattalionMetals.com slash Tucker shipped right to your house if you want. That's BattalionMetals.com slash Tucker. It also sends, it also just, especially with normal people, if something's illegal, it sends a really strong message. Even if the penalty is not life in prison, the penalty can be, I don't know, it doesn't even matter. But if it's illegal, a lot of people just won't do it on those grounds. Right. That's just true. And you see it with drug legalization. Right. You legalize drugs and there are all these arguments. There are all these arguments about how, well, we're going to get rid of the black market and the cartels will disappear when we, you know, we'll be able to actually treat this. We can't criminalize addiction. And like, I fell for some of that stuff, but it was all a lie because the second you legalize something, it becomes way more common. How much more so whenever we're not talking about a substance, right? We're not talking about, you know, regulating or restricting a substance. Yeah. We're talking about prohibiting people from murder. I agree. I completely agree. But I'm only saying that. Because I have been opposed to abortion, you know, my whole adult life passionately. My view has not never changed, but my views on what you're describing have changed. And I'm only saying this out loud because I do think that there are people who are sincere and sincerely opposed to it who are like, well, that sounds kind of mean. Like, why would we do that? And their matter at the abortionists and they are at their victims or they see the women as victims, which I, again, I just want to be clear. I do think women who commit abortion are victims. But also perpetrators. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think sincere people can reach that conclusion and just be wrong as I was. Right. But it's a little weird that every pro-life group has that view. And it's been, and it's, the interesting thing, it's not just that they're like, well, we don't support these bills or that's not our strategy, but they've been actively opposing them. We, so we've seen equal, these equal protection bills have been filed in dozens of states now. And, and it's repeatedly, the bills are killed by the pro-life leaders, by the pro-life organizations in state after state after state. Well, we're in an age of total betrayal, so it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me. Right. I mean, there's this kind of cryptic line in Matthew where Jesus is saying, you know, husband will turn against wife, father against son, you know, when things really start to fall apart, betrayal will be the hallmark of the moment, in effect, I think he's saying that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You see it now. It's like, I voted for this guy to save me from the very thing he's doing. Right. I mean, that's just, who hasn't woken up in the last year and thought that? Right. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised. So how do they treat you, the professional pro-lifers? Well, I think for a while they tried to ignore abolitionists, but then again, when we, when you put this out there and you talk to the average pro-life Christian, average pro-life voter, and they're like, of course, why isn't the pro-life movement supporting this? They're like, what are you talking about? I'm not that. I'm not that. I'm an abolitionist then. And, um, and so I think, so at first the pro-life leaders were kind of ignoring us and then we made enough, got enough attention that they had to, you know, say something and opposing it. And, um, but now there, there's some that are listening, um, and there's some that are changing, uh, but it's happening very, very slowly. And it's something that, um, we didn't listen to. It's a lot more of, can you get, uh, can you find allies from any of the other Abrahamic faiths? It seems like there should be given the Torah is so opposed to human sacrifice. It feels like you should have a lot of rabbis on your side. It feels like you should have, you know, emails from your local mosque on your side, because I think they're opposed to abortion. Do you? No, no, it's a, in fact, we've, we had a bill in Georgia just, I believe it was last year that we had a hearing on and one of the, the legislators was Jewish and she was saying, well, in my faith, you know, we can, we can get an abortion. She didn't know anything about her faith because at least as described in the Torah, it's totally prescribed, prohibited. Right. Right. Well, that's, that's a whole, What is she even talking about? Whole other conversation. Right? Cause I mean, No, I'm just sincerely confused. I, I just think that, Having read it. Yeah. I, I think that there's a whole lot of, you know, I, I believe that the faith, um, you know, when Christ came. They rejected, they rejected their faith and they, they took another faith, they took another line and that the faith of Christianity is the faith that goes back to, that goes back to Abraham, right? We're all, um, by we, we worship by faith, just we are children of Abraham and, um, because we're children of faith and we're faith, we believe in Christ, he's God, he's the Messiah. Um, and they've taken a totally different route and that's why they reject a lot of even the, the things that they, they claim to believe in, in their own, even in their own time. I mean, that's right there. In, in ours. Right. It could not be clearer. I think so. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. It'd be interesting. I would love to have that conversation. Yeah. Like a sincere conversation. Yeah. Like how could you, you know, with Christian and Jewish leaders who say they believe in the scriptures. Right. I don't. What I, what I've heard is that there's like Talmudic, um, you know, interpretations that somehow interpret it to be like you can commit abortion at least up to a certain point. Up to so many weeks or something like that. Yeah. That's not hinted at in the Torah. No. Definitely not. Um, or even suggested in any way. So I, you know, I'm not a scholar. I don't understand how those interpretations arrive at the conclusions you just described, but I don't see it at all. Right. Um, so are you making any headway at all? We are. We are. We're, we're seeing, we're seeing more bills introduced. We're seeing more legislators sign onto them. This year we saw over 130. legislators sign on to the bill. bills that we're involved with across the country um and so that's more than ever and so uh yeah we're seeing a lot of how do you make the case against abortion as an abolitionist to a secular american you know i i i'm not afraid to just and i know people are like well if i'm talking to a secular american i can't use the bible right i can't use that but but i reject that i think that we we have to go back to god we have to go back to um we have to go back to this is wrong because god says it you may not believe it right you may not believe that that his words is a sword but it still is right just you not believing it doesn't take away its power so i think even to the secularist right even to the the one who rejects god i think we still have to come back to you know you say my body my choice but it's actually not it's actually your body was created and god is the the um your your creator and you can't just do whatever you want with your body and you definitely can't do what you want with someone else's body which that's what the child is inside of you so i think we have to start there we can't just say well let me oh i'm talking to someone who doesn't believe in the bible let me just set my bible aside no no god's word is still god he's still god whether they believe it or not so we have to start with him and then yeah then we can also then make scientific arguments like look at this look from fertilization unique DNA, right? And just self-replicating cells here, right? This is obviously, and what other kind of life, obviously human. It's not anything else but human. So, here we have a self-replicating, self-growing organism that is human. And that has different DNA from you. Exactly. You don't own it. Exactly. Because you don't own another person, because we don't allow slavery in this country. So, you have stewardship over the child. It's your child. But you don't own the child, because he's a human being, not an object. Right. But the separate DNA thing is kind of a conversation ender. If it's your body, why does it have different DNA? What are you even talking about? Exactly. Well, I think, though, I think we're going to see, and I think we've seen people pivot even to the, because if they're like, my body, my choice, like, well, that's not your body. I think we're even seeing people that are like accepting what we think is an absurdity. It's like, okay, yeah, that is a human being, but. Potentially. Well, no, I think there's people even admitting, like, oh, no, yeah, that is a human being, but I have the right to take the life of that human being, because that human being is inside of me. That's a pretty ballsy stance, I have to say, to say something like that out loud. Yeah. I mean, that's bold. I have the right to kill somebody? Oh, do you really? Where'd you get that right? You think there are going to be consequences for that? Yeah. Agreed. I had a long conversation with someone on his deathbed once who lived a long and varied life, and he said, you know, the thing I'm most grateful for is I never killed anybody. And I said, why is that? And he said, it's just become clear to me that that really is what matters. Like, that's why, you know, this person committed a lot of sins. Whoa. Could write books about the sins this person committed, but he said, I never killed anybody. And I'm just so thankful. Right. To me, when you talk, I've talked to a number of people on their deathbed, and it's, it's such an interesting experience because they're past the point of, like, lying to themselves. Like, when they're, their actual deathbed, like, I'm not getting out of bed, I'm dying. Right. There's no room left to be like, what really matters is my promotion or salary or whatever title I got. Like, they see things more clearly than we do, I think. Right. And yeah, and this person said that is, I'm just so grateful. It's a big deal to kill somebody. Right. Bigger than we acknowledge. Yeah. So, when you say, have you ever tried this? This is such a fun experiment. Just start saying out loud, killing the innocent is immoral, no matter who they are. Doesn't matter. If you kill the innocent, you're committing the gravest possible sin. If you say that, and I don't think objectively, like, how could anyone disagree with that? Like, what's worse than killing somebody who didn't do anything wrong? Right. But if you say, you should try that next time you're in a mixed company, Republicans and Democrats. And it's interesting, you will find conservative Republicans who'd be like, well, yeah, but, I mean, there are times, you know, like, they will be offended when you say that. Right. What does that tell you? I've done this experiment, so I know. Yeah. It tells you that we're not valuing human life the way we should. It tells you pretty easy. But if you'll defend the killing of people who did nothing wrong, I mean, talk about a dark agenda. What's your agenda exactly? Right. Why would you defend that? Like, what, how could you possibly justify that? Right. And why would you want to? Right. Yeah. So, who are your allies? Just a small group of, are they Catholics and evangelicals, or? They're Protestants. So, you know, I would even describe kind of the pro-life movement and the abolitionist movement as really two separate movements. You know, I think a lot of the pro-life movement has been built on secularism. And, again, lots of Christians in the pro-life movement, but a lot of the core values of the pro-life movement are not biblical. You know, the whole. The idea of justice or that, or even that abortion is a sin, right? Again, there's lots of people in the pro-life movement that agree abortion is a sin, but that's not how they're approaching it, right? A lot of the pro-life bills are regulating abortion, like the who, what, when, where, why, and how about it. Right. And not actually saying, well, no, abortion is a sin against God. You don't, just like adultery, you don't say, well, I'll just do it at these times and in these places and with this age people. It doesn't depend on how hot she is. I mean, you know, they're mitigating factors. Right. I mean. That's not how God. God would have us to deal with it. Excuse me. I'm kidding, obviously. Yes. But, but that's how we're dealing. That's how so many of the pro-life bills, you know, deal with this issue. Not, not as a sin or as a crime, but as some kind of something, well, we can just regulate the circumstances of it. And so a lot of the pro-life, you know, or even you put a pro-life person on a lot of like, yeah, I've seen pro-life people go on CNN, pro-life leaders, and CNN comes at them with something like you've talked about. Um, or like, like you were just kind of saying, well, I'm a secular person. I don't believe in the Bible. You know, it seems like you're just doing this for religious reasons. And, and a lot of the pro-life leaders are like, oh no, no, no, we're not, this isn't about forcing my religion on anybody. This is about human rights and things like that, which of course it is about human rights and all that, but it. Which derived from Christianity, by the way, what do you think the term human rights comes from? It comes from the recognition that God created every person and that your rights therefore attached to you as a human. Exactly. Not as. As a white or black or Jew or Christian, as a human being, cuz God created every single human being. Exactly. That's the whole point of human being. And that's what we, we have to start with that. We have to start. If we start with any, anywhere else, then we don't have a foundation. If we, if we, if we don't start with God says that ultimately it's just we say, well, who am I to tell a woman what to do with her body or what to do with her baby? But if God says. No, it's the choice between God or Larry Fink. Right. It's like God or like just BlackRock makes all the decisions. And like, that is kind of the choice, you know? Yeah. Uh, and that's an easy one for me. So are you ever gonna have kids yourself? Uh, so I have children. You do. Yes, I do. How many? So, well, before this morning, I would've told you we have 12 children, but this morning my wife called me and said, we're expecting number 13. No way. Yeah. Yes. How old are you? 43. Man. You don't play or you do, I guess. That's so great. Yeah. What's that like? And how old are you? Oh, it's, it's so awesome. Uh, I mean, our home is just full of life and joy and, and noise and, you know, lots of craziness and, and, um, but it's a, it's a huge blessing. We're very blessed. How many boys, how many girls and what ages? So we have, um, six boys, six girls, and then question mark on the way. And, uh, and what's interesting is that we actually have them. Um. Uh, they're girl, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, all the way. No way. So after our last one, we always wait till the birth. My wife loves it. The anticipation waiting for the, for the birth, uh, to find out, you know, whether it's a boy or a girl. So we always have two names ready. But after this last birth, it was the previous one had been a girl. So we're like, oh, of course it's going to be a boy. And, and it was a boy and we're laughing. I sent that to a friend of mine and he says, Hey, have you seen this? And he sends me a link to a Guinness book of world records. Um, and there, there's a record for this like alternating girl, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, and the record was 11. And so you have the world record, it's not official yet, but we're waiting for the final confirmation of world record for course we have, I can't take credit for that at all, totally just, just God just decided to, you know, it's just a good sense of humor and just do that for us. And so, uh, so yeah, so we have, uh, our oldest is 15. And we have two sets of twins in there as well. So how fun is it? It's great. It's, it's absolute blessing. It's, uh, it's sanctifying. I mean, it's, it's, they're definitely, it's there's difficulties. I'm not going to pretend that there's not, um, but God uses those, right. He uses difficulties to, to shape us and to remind us how much we need him. And, uh, so it's, it's great. They're a blessing. People are worried about having two kids because of the cost. Yeah. What would you say? I would say that God will provide. If he provides the children, he'll provide all that you need to take care of them. them and especially in this country i mean we're the richest people in the history of the world um if we can't afford children then none of our forefathers could none of us would be here but we we can definitely afford children they they that you have to make sacrifices and um but but they're worth it that's how much sleep do you get uh i i sleep great we you know once you've had now 12 um at the 13 on the way you know you start you figure some things out and uh and so we have tips and tricks about um you know baby's going to sleep and so obviously the first little first few weeks you know a couple months that's uh there's issues there but um but overall good and uh so my wife and i have a um you know we a lot of times the children at night you know the baby a lot of times she's she's you know nurses the baby and take care of the baby but then all the other children at night you know if they need to wake anybody up they come wake me up and uh so we're a good team how many bedrooms do you have we have a one boy's room and one girl's room and one mom and daddy uh and then a baby room are you serious yeah you have a three-bedroom house in a nursery yes yeah yeah so yeah oh yeah you know you don't and that you don't need you know you don't need all the things people think say that you need we actually had some you know a lot of people come over to our house and they're like uh they're like wow you're at you know you have a lot of people in here you know it doesn't seem that big but we had we had some people come over this is maybe a year and a half like a whole roofing crew yeah definitely we have some people came over from mozambique a couple years ago um we have a friend who's a missionary there and they came over to the house and these people walked in and they were like oh your house is so big right i mean it's all about perspective yeah you know and uh so so many of our my my grandfather he was one of 10 uh and you go back any in any of us you can go back and look in your own genealogy and you're gonna see lots of families of 10 11 12 and you're and and i guarantee you they were most of them were in much smaller houses than than a lot of americans think today you need for two or three children that's for sure so yeah incredible well you clearly mean it and last question like it's been worth it do you think like describe the blessing having that many kids is yeah it it is uh and god describes them as a blessing you know when you go look at i'm sorry i'm getting choked up here but you go you'll go look at scripture go look at the things that god loves right what does he love he loves human beings yeah it's the very first command right after god creates the woman right he says to them he it says and god blessed them and said be fruitful and multiply and then again then we have the you know the world's wiped out through the flood then noah it says very first command after they come off the ark and god blessed them and commanded them be fruitful multiply then we have jacob right the israel right he becomes israel and then right after god changes his name to israel he says and god blessed him and said to him be fruitful multiply we see again and again throughout scripture children are described as a blessing again and again and again and again and and it's even just think selfishly right don't we don't i think well i'm a blessing right don't we don't i think well i'm a blessing right i'm a blessing don't we even think pridefully like i'm a blessing well well you were a baby you were a child and your parents had you and so you know as some people would say pay it forward right um you know and then just trust god with that you know if if if god wants you to have a lot of children trust him with that or god may choose not to god may choose for you to have one or two or none and he knows best and so that's what we've you know committed to uh as with my wife cindy and uh and she's again a lot of people would say she's crazy because she's like i want another one i'm praying for another one i don't even love their twins and um and so it's been a huge blessing for us i just can't imagine thinking that that's crazy that's like the greatest thing ever yeah we're ever we think so too congratulations god bless and thank you for doing this hey thanks again for having me you