Boyz II Men's "Motownphilly" w/ Shawn Stockman: Part One

All those elements back then is what made music sound so rich and full because it wasn't just a high hat, a snare, and a kick. That's fine, you know, depending on what you're trying to do, but it's those elements. It made it hip and because it's those elements that kids back then could relate to and hear and go, "Oh, you know, that type of thing." That's why we call it a fat, you know, right? Right, right. It was fat. It was. It was had a lot of meat on it. It was fat. All right. Today, we're talking about a song that introduced the world to a truly powerhouse group. Their slow jams alone have soundtracks, weddings, school dances, and let's be honest, a whole lot of intimate moments, definitely had a few of their songs. I might make out mixed tape, tragically underused, but that's another story. But their first single, not a slow jam at all. It was a straight-up party of them that can get the floor rocking to this very day. That's right, Tiallo. And we're diving into all of it, which is why today kicks off a special two-parter. We're taking it back to the beginning to their rise to the top with one of the founding members of this iconic group, singer and songwriter, Sean Stockman. That's right. One song and that song is Motown Philly by Boys Demand. I'm actor, writer, director, and sometimes DJ the allarittle. And I'm producer, DJ, songwriter, and music, college, luxury, a.k.a. the guy who whispers interpolation and this is one song, the show where we break down the stems and stories behind iconic songs across genres, telling you why they deserve one more listen. You will hear these songs like you've never heard them before and you can watch one song on YouTube and Spotify, so many places, while you're there, please like and subscribe. The song I guess today is renowned singer, songwriter and member of the iconic, iconic group, Boys to Men, you know his unmistakable tenor from classics like End of the Road. I love to do anything I need only if I'll make love to you like you are on Bended Knee band, one sweet day together with his bandmates, they have sold over 64 million records worldwide and counting. Let's give a warm welcome. That's insane. A warm welcome to Sean, Stockman everybody, Sean Stockman, Sean, thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. I don't know if this show will ever be able to say that I guess today is responsible for 65 million records, so that is an insane amount. So Sean, let's take it back to the beginning of Boys to Men, you Nate, Juan Ye and Mike met at a performing arts high school in Philadelphia and to me, it really feels like Boys to Men help kick off a whole new era of RMB and I'm not even trying to be like, you know, grandiose to me, that's really what it is. You guys to me are like the bridge between like a Keith Sweat and Guy era to and everything that came up later in the 90s when we're talking like 112 who I went to high school with Marvin Scandrick. A K Slim. I think we're slim in her group. Every group has to have a Slim. Everybody has a Slim for all RMB groups. You guys paved the way for Insing, Jaggedage, so many different types of groups but like when you all did it, there was no real paradigm. I was listening to the song Under Pressure and some of the harmonies you have at the beginning of that song. And I was like, what is this remind me of take six or like there are a couple of groups that were kind of doing the neo duop thing, but you all just did it bigger and better. You were carving out your own lane. Did you see it that way at the time? Yeah. Take six was a definite influence for us. What we listened to in high school alongside new addition and guy and baby face and all of those guys. Like that was what kids listened to back then, especially kids like us. We went to a performer in high school as you mentioned. So harmony and vocals were paramount. I want to ask you about something specific for you because I was watching your podcast. And you mentioned that you hung out with degenerates and goths. Yeah. I love that. And I'm curious to know what to you made you guys goths, were you guys listening to Peshmoad or like listening to the major thing. You know what? We're a little bit different. Yeah. We listen to rock music and that's that that alone is considered weird for black kids. Oh, Trent. So I know. Yeah, right, right. I know. You know, so we, but we would listen to like zebra and yeah, yeah, we went there. So yeah. Yeah. In the middle of winter. (Music) What are the three rock. These are rock bands. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah. I used to rock. I used to rock music. And like, I used to rock music. I used to rock music and like zebra led Zeppelin and death leopard and Metallica and guys like that. But it was, it was a blend because at a very early age, I was always into just music. So I didn't really look at it as a black or white thing necessarily, but just music that I liked. I mean, and I wasn't alone. I mean, when, when you hear beat it from Michael Jackson, right? It's heavy guitar. He's like, I got to call up Eddie Van Halen. Yeah, right. And so it does, it did resonate throughout most of us, melanated folks. Are you hearing this on the radio or early MTV or do you got older sibling? There was a little bit of both. Yeah. MTV turning to the white station occasionally to listen to some stuff and you just tend to connect with it. And that's what I always enjoy. So not to mention, I thought that the cool kids or the kids that were considered cool were hassles. So, you know, I don't, I don't like hassles. So, you know, I mean, so it's like one of those things where I hung around those people because they loved me for who I was. And it was like, they were my tribe. Music helped differentiate the different tribes a little bit as they often do in schools. Well, yeah, yeah, to some degree, I mean, it's just like any other school, you see the golfs with the swoosh hair wearing all black and stuff like that and they were into the music they were into and stuff like that. Now, I didn't hang around all of those guys, like, but there were a few that I was, I was one of those guys that kind of could bounce around because I liked R&B just as much as I liked metal. Yeah. But the people that I got along with and that I was able to talk to about those different types of admiration about of music were the degenerates. How were those cool kids listening to by contrast? They were listening to hip hop, R&B gospel is not ironic and you know, stuff like that. So, it was when you were auditioning for this group, I think you said that that was your first time like singing gospel because they had you singing wine and stuff. Yeah. I wasn't a church kid in the traditional sense. A lot of the kids that went to the school where they just grew up in church. Yeah. And hearing these amazing vocalists doing these incredibly intricate riffs and stuff like that made me want to go home and do my homework. So, one of the first albums I picked up was BB and CC Winens and just listening to him and how his vocal inflections like BB is one of my vocal heroes. And because I felt his vocal tone was very similar to mine, like, we were both kind of second tenors. So, like. Second tenors stand up. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So, I connected to his voice and tried to learn as many riffs as I could and I just became a sponge and found my own niche, you know. So, but yeah, I sang a BB and CC song called "Love, Set, Not So" in front of the kids in my choir. And mind you, I was there for a whole year and didn't even know I existed until I went on stage and started singing and even the cool kids had more like this. Who's that guy? Right. Who's this skinny big ear, dude? And right after that, Nate came up to me and said, "Hey, I got a group. You want to be in it?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure." So, that was it. That's a great one. Is it at this point then that you start getting into the competitions at school? We've heard that there's a bit of a rivalry that's developed in you and another group. Well, no, not necessarily in school, but in the city, there were a lot of groups back then in Philadelphia. Like that was the thing. Yeah. Vocal groups are like. Yes. Yes, there was a lot of vocal groups back in Philadelphia and, you know, you had your local kids that you know could do WOP and hit fly steps because everybody was trying to be like new addition or the new improved temptations or whatever. So, you had a lot of groups that put themselves together and you had some that obviously or apparently had more money than us because their clothes and everything were just so nice. They could go to chess game, you know, tree, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, they had the nice slacks. Yeah. With the nice patent leather. They were matching. Were you guys matching? Yeah. Yeah. We were matching. Yeah. But we had to go to two-fers and I've heard of two-fers because you could buy two suits for one. You know what I'm saying? Get a lot of value. So, we would buy those outfits with the patent leather shoes. Another one with leather. Yeah. I've worn the matching leather jacket with my, with my aquapella group back then. It got us through. It got us through. But it's so interesting to hear that even into the 80s we have this Philadelphia tradition of kids on the corner doing do-up because we did a hollanoats episode and that's what they were doing at decades plus before, like in the 60s, actually, I think. And they were inspired by what came before them. So that lineage is so interesting. Yeah. It's part of the culture of the city. You could always walk down the street, you know, in broad street or market street and possibly hear somebody hitting a couple of notes. Wow. So. Well, I'm glad you bring that up because it seems like everybody was like singing and learning their crafts out in the open. You know, I'm Mayor Thompson, aka Questlove is a friend of the show. He's a friend of the show and he said that you guys, he spotted you guys very early on. In fact, he said that you cheated because you guys had like glitter and top hats or something like that. Is that true? It's true. But it wasn't necessarily a competition more where we would win a prize. Uh-huh. It was just more. So, I mean, you go to school with guys like Amir and Tyreek, which is Black Thought. Yep. He was there and Amela Rue, you know, grew fairy. She was there and Christian McBride, who's an amazing bass player, jazz bass player, wanted the greatest working right now. And you have all these top tier musicians and vocalists and stuff like that, that when we put together like a little talent show, whatever, like it was, yeah, we had to turn up. So the top hats, no, but the glitter we did have, like the top hat was an embellishment. Yeah. It was a little embellishment. Okay. But, you know, there was a point where it, because as can you stand in rain, it was like our signature record. So whenever we, we would perform it, you know, we had a little move and we would kind of, ah, that's a glitter, yeah, and the crowd goes wild. David Copperfield. Wow. Yeah. They got magic. Right. Exactly. That's why another was a top hat. He thought y'all were going to put that in. Exactly. So, yeah. I mean, we all, it's funny because with Amir and just seeing how we've all evolved. Yeah. You know, just watching each other's kids and then seeing how we've developed as adults is pretty cool. Well, according to some, I'm not saying his question, according to some, you may have evolved more than others. He told me that you were an amazing rapper. I mean, what do you, what can you tell me about the Rambo like a predator flow? Because he told me you got to ask about Rambo like a predator. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I don't remember a lot of my rap. So please don't ask me about it. Absolutely. Surely you're on the bar. I did. Right. No, I do not know. But, um, yeah, I used to kind of like, I was, I was a big Chuck D fan. Oh, good. And I used to love public enemy and I just love LL and you know those guys. Yeah. Yeah. So, I tried to be clever with my wordplay back then. And yes, it's cringey now, but, but I thought that back then I was like really spitting like some real bars and, and, where you jump into baritone as well like Chuck D or, or bass. No. I tried that. Okay. And it just didn't, you know, I had a, you know, girly voice, but, but the point is is, yeah, I spent some time on lyrics and that's all I'm going to say about it. According to him, he said that you had a great flow and he was like, I can only imagine if we had two ass kicking MCs in the roots, he was like, you could have been their positives. Those are his words. Wow. I mean, you could have been the positives of the roots. I mean, you're very kind and I appreciate that. I mean, I, uh, I've always been fascinated with, with being a rapper and what I mean, but that is like, again, the, the guys I looked up to, they had a type of, uh, energy that was more so, they felt like preachers and, and when they were rap, it was, it was deeper than just being flawsy. They were like schooling us on things and it was more so what, that's what I admired the most about my favorite MCs is that they were more than just guys that just more change if any. They, they were speaking to us and Chuck, yeah, Chuck, Chuck was my guy and, and, and just seeing what he did for me as a young black kid, like he was very much an integral part of me wanting to read more and learn more about black history and all those other things. So it was more than the music, although the music was incredibly dope, but, the music opened the way, but like, definitely I will agree that like, he, he, he implanted in us so much black pride that like, I think we just assumed that it was always going to be there. We would look up 20 years later and you taught the kids and they didn't have any of it and you were like, well, was it, was it our, was it our parents? I think it was our parents, but it was also like the music that we listened to. Yeah. Yeah. What, what was magical about that time of hip-hop is that even though it was very educational and very informative, it still made you dance. Absolutely. That was the secret sauce. Like, I think that they intentionally did. Like, we're going to make something that's going to make people, you know, bob their heads and move and move, but at the same time, we're going to slide a couple gems of information and wisdom. So if I can ask you about that, by the way, since we're talking about Motown Philly today and we're, we're in this moment, taking it back to 1990, 1990, 1991, in that moment, before the band becomes the band that is now at 35 year old, you know, you are what you are. Yeah. Before you had formed fully, and this song is one of your first songs as I thought you recorded. Yes. In your mind, are you thinking, because the sound of the song is so unique, it's actually, there's a lot of bomb squad. They're here. Yes. The production of the song, right? Yes. Did you, in your mind, think that this band, as it's evolving, did you have a sense that it might be slightly more in this direction, in that direction, the mix that it ended up being? At the end of the day, we were just kids doing music that we liked and music that we listened to. And it just was, it just so happened that it was inspired by production teams like the bomb squad. Like, those guys, again, I was a huge public enemy fan, so, and it takes a nation, a million is probably one of the greatest albums ever created. For real. And in the moment you're making this record, that is the record that I'm not everyone's guitar player. Exactly. So our producer at the time, Dallas Austin, who also listened to the same type of music, knew how to incorporate a lot of those components to our music, because we like to switch ups and the beats and the 808, like pounding and things of that nature. So, yeah, that was very much, I guess you could say, intentional. And, you know, we wanted our songs, the bang, just as hard as, is, don't believe the high. Don't believe the hype is a sequel, as an equal, can I get this through? Absolutely. Well, before we go any further, let's, let's play a little bit of the iconic video for Motown Philly. Here's a clip. What's time you watch this? Been a while. And it's funny because the girl playing the trumpet, shout out to Thai show, most of these people were from our high school. Really? They all went to our school. We saw the, the Questlove cameo in there too. Yeah. Like, so, so a lot of the few people that you see, like the girl taking the picture, yes, her name is April. Okay. Benjamin was Lishon Daniels, who used to be the songwriter for Dark Child, who passed away a few years ago. Yeah. Okay. So, Rodney. Yeah, Rodney. So, but we were all friends, but, you know, we were all friends and we all grew up together and, and that whole thing. So again, seeing that, it's funny because just seeing the connections of, we wanted to make sure everybody or as many people as we could from our school and people that we knew were incorporated in the, in the video, so everybody can watch it and bug out, you know, you're still in high school, right? Yes. When you make this, which means that you get to come to school the next day when it's on MTV. Exactly. And reach the benefits. Exactly. Well, in '91, when it came out, Wanye was the only one still in school. Okay. I graduated in 1990. Okay. So, I just missed it. Oh, man. Just that. Benjamin, the king of school. All right. I want to be a special. Oh, it's been crazy. Can we, can we talk about your look in this video? Yeah. I mean, like, look at me right now, I am wearing a baseball hat with a cardigan. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I can't tell you how much that video and everything that y'all brought in that. And by the way, it does not even necessarily match the image on the album, you know, cover. Yeah. Because on the album cover, you guys got on like, you know, it's like the fur leather jackets and all that. But like, here, like, I will say, from the second that video came out, again, I was in Atlanta. The idea that you could be a nerd, a black nerd specifically and a blue, a blurred. Yeah. Listen, man. Yeah. - No, no, and it's so funny because now I've noticed that the quarter zips are coming back. - I was just gonna say that. - And you got guys wearing khakis and loafers and a whole nine yards. That's really just us, like that's the vibe that we were trying to exude. And just to give flowers-- - Biffins. - Yeah, biffins. Yeah, biff came up with that collegiate look. The glasses, with the cardigan sweaters and the rich boss and stuff like that. And even though-- - One more flora and thing. - Right. - Even though we were from the hood, we didn't exude that energy. If you know what I'm saying, we weren't hood dudes like walking around, like tooting pistols or anything like that. We were very studious kids, you know, that sang in choirs and sang classical music. And yeah, and Biff saw that in us. So he was like, you know, we're gonna scratch the original cardigan and stuff like that. Even though the cardigans was the first phase. - Right, and by the way, though, I also had a denim shirt that I would wear a tie with, like, you know, like, whatever you guys-- - You were inspired by this video. - Sorry, yeah. - You were early in any video. - Yeah, I was absolutely down with it. There were a lot of looks on the Biff Entertainment label. And that leaves me to talk about one of the most interesting music videos of all time. I've been dying to bring this up on an episode of one song, "The East Coast Family Video." - Oh, okay. - So first of all, I think you guys were the first people to coin the phrase, "East Coast Family." Am I right? - Yeah, I think I heard-- - Yes. - Was it Juanje or Nate who said he wrote "East Coast Family?" - He wrote "East Coast Family." - Okay. - Yeah, Nate wrote that part. - For those of you who don't know, one of the greatest music videos of all time is the sort of promotional video for Michael Bivins' label. It's a one for all for one. - Yeah, all for one. - And we're just gonna play a clip of it and I do have some questions. Please, the clip from "East Coast Family." - It's 'cause sure you do. ♪ Whether it's black or it's white ♪ ♪ Trying to keep it going on ♪ ♪ It's easy to you to go and start to show you ♪ - Hayden. - The goat. Hayden's the goat. - Hayden's the goat. - He's got that shirt tucked in, boy. - Yeah, you know what I was saying? It's a blue, but the blue guys won't move with the jacket over the shoulder. - The spelling of white guys. - Yes. Genius. - Yeah, yeah. - By the way, they only throw it up there a half second. - Yeah. - Right, right, right. Look at all the people around that day. - I really did think it was "Wit Jizz" when I saw it at first. - That's a different group. - Right, we were like, "You're gonna get banned from bloppin' us for videos." - We're like that. - We don't have time to talk about everyone. - No, no, listen to this video. - I'm interested to see what questions you have. - But by the way, I just want to point out Yvette Nicole Brown in this video, she's Yvette. You know, there are a lot of people who went on to have like very interest. I even saw Hayden in an interview from maybe two years ago talking about, you know, he's still singing. So like, everything is like, you know, it's a great video, but I just have to ask, like what was it like to be like in this video? There's so many people on this song. You guys definitely go last 'cause it's like, you know, last and definitely not least. Here's our marquee artist. - Right, that was the whole thing. - What was it like being on set for the East Coast family video? - It was very hot. - I remember that, 'cause I think we did it somewhere in Texas when it was like a-- - Oh, I would have sworn that was like Philadelphia. - No, that was like in Houston or something like that. And why we chose Houston, I don't know, I don't remember. I do remember we were on the road with Hammer at the time. Yeah, we took time to fly out, do the video, and head right back out to tour, but it was cool because everybody had a chance to get together and it really was all for one at that point. - No, you were all very much in support of one another and we loved each other and supported everybody's careers and all that other stuff, and it was just a good time. But it was quick though, because like I said, we did our part and then we bounced. - Another bad creation, I had to put this up because I learned it this week. You guys are on the chorus. At least some of you are on the chorus for Ayesha, one of the great songs of this period. - Yes, Wang Yana. (upbeat music) - That's fantastic. Before our stuff came out, we did a lot of behind the scenes work. We did a lot of songwriting and background vocals and stuff like that for ABC and artists that Biv had a rapper named MC Brains and Nate and Nathan. - If he brains was already big, I feel like at that point, he'd come over to Biv, right? - Yeah, I mean, he was a kid out of Cleveland that I guess caught the attention of Biv and everything, so we would write stuff for him. And again, some of the times, I might be getting a little misconstrued or whatever, but for the most part, that's what we were doing until our music came out. Just a lot of background work. - Coolie Hi Harmony, your debut album. The very first song I'm there is a song called "Please Don't Go." - Yes. - I will come clean and say that that is one of my favorite songs of any genre ever. Like it's so-- - I'm not mad at you, man. - Bra, listen, it does something that I think all the best songs do, which is it starts one place and it's a fantastic place to be. But then at some point, it goes to a completely different place. You're like, "Oh, it's like finding out something new about somebody you already liked, but then finding out they have it in another skill." Like, literally, when you go to the end of this song, instead of me talking about a place, just a little bit of "Please Don't Go." ♪ My feelings are so beautiful for you ♪ ♪ That I won't let go home now ♪ - All right. - Listening to that, right? We were still in high school, recording this. So we were at the time being taught how to sing classical music. So we were singing Bach and Bavaldi and Beethoven and Handel's Messiah and all this other stuff. So when I'm listening to it, my diction is so perfect. - Oh, it's just gonna ask you that. - It's about clarity, right? ♪ It's about clarity for you ♪ - This is clarity. - This is clarity for you. - That's right. - Yeah. - As a contrast to gospel, maybe? - Yeah, so it wasn't hood at all. It was very poly. - It wasn't hood. - Because that's the note specifically. - Yes. - And the dictionable. - It was very, I remember. - Cillable to note correspondence. - Yes. - And I remember that was very important when we were singing. Make sure that you, people hear every word that you're saying and don't make it, you know, what kids will consider mumble mouth now. Like now it's the exact opposite. - It's like, don't let people know which is singing. So, you know, I just found that funny. 'Cause I'm just hearing that. - I got accused of talking proper in my all black, you know, middle school and high school. But this was my absolute favorite. In fact, this is one of the main reasons why me and some guys at my high school formed a Nakapella group. Like we were just like, oh, we just wanna sing. Please don't go. And while I have you here, Sean, I want to sing a bit of, please don't go. And I want you to rate me on a scale of one to 10. 10 being, damn, we could have used the invoices to men. Or one, please do go. All right, so here we go. - Do I get to rate you? - Okay. - Yes, you do. - All right, here we go. - All right, go ahead. - Oh man. 13-year-old Aviz, you can't believe this is happening. This is a dream come true. I'm gonna see the lyrics the way I remember them. ♪ Now your way, temptation may come ♪ ♪ But when I get caught up with you ♪ ♪ But when I get caught up with you ♪ ♪ But when I get caught up, ooh ♪ ♪ I let go ♪ - Don't crush my dream, that's not that, you know? - I've never been friendly. - I have had this. - Never been formally trained. - I admire your passion. - Your hips butt? - That's the worst thing I've ever heard of in my life. - It was a lot of passion. I felt you on that. - But let me say your bravery, we all felt that in the room. - You know, you gave it your all and that's good. - When you play Atlanta and someone doesn't show up. - Me. - I'll give you my end of fifth row. - Okay. (all laughing) - I have no regrets, man, because you know what? When I say that that song, I come to this episode as a real fan. - Do you have no regretton life? - Masterful dodging of the answer, by the way. - I have no regretton life. - Do you? - One at 10. - That was at 10. - Thank you. - Nothing wrong. - See how easy it is. - See how easy it is to support me. - You go. - Yeah, that's it. - That's it. - I love it. (all laughing) - All right, it is, that's official. - So for your debut single, Motown Philly, you've got this combination of two iconic cities, two iconic music cities, Motown on the one hand with Motown Records, Detroit, Spreems, you got Smoky Robinson, et cetera, et cetera. And then you've got Philly, MFSP, you've got Gambling Huff. In your mind, at the time this was being, I don't know if it was explained or how was this concept first of all created with the group. And second of all, how did it take for musically in the choices you were making? - Yeah, this was a concept, the idea was created by Mr. Michael Bivens, who was, again, just on point. He was just in a zone, that's vision. It was his vision to create a song that meshed the two cities together, 'cause coincidentally, us being signed to Motown and being from Philadelphia, two powerhouse musical towns, [BLANK_AUDIO] who had their hay, but kind of fizzled out as most things do, it returning through us. - Bringing back some of the traditions of both of those musical-- - Exactly. - What were the elements of both, if there was sort of a mission statement, was it like, you know, maybe the look of Motown meets the blank of blank, 'cause there was a-- - There was, there was the, we were the blend of both entities, us being signed to Motown, and understanding the traditions of Motown, the tops, the temptations, and Smokey Robinson, as you mentioned, and being obviously from Philadelphia, which that DNA was innately in us, 'cause we were from there, we felt like we were the, I guess, the chosen ones, in that sense, to bring back balance to the force, I guess, so to speak. So, so it was really one of those things where Biv having a foresight to see these connections, and he literally just told us, hey, make a record called Motown Philly, and he gave us a brief description as to why, and Nathan and I put pen and paper to Dallas Austin's track, and Biv wrote the, the rap that basically encompassed what the story was about. It's, Motown Philly is a four and a half minute-- - Bial. - Yeah, Bial, so it's more of a vibe, not as very specific, 'cause in the '60s, I think of Motown as being a very '60s, and that was the Hague, too, right? - Yeah, the Hague Day was the same. - Yeah, but the whole thing was it being back again in a modern form, like, we are elements of that, but in today's music era, you know what I'm saying? - It is rather ballsy on your debut single, the thing about being back again, but that makes a lot of sense, 'cause it's Motown. - It was a pretentious at all. It was just, it was really just us putting, literally, one and one together. Signed to Motown, we're from Philadelphia, Motown Philly. - You're gonna synthesize both of them with your unique, in this new era with these four new people, that-- - And new musicians. - Yes, and it made it, without, I mean, I guess, by osmosis, we didn't realize what we were doing, but it made people ingest it easier, because once you hear the harmonies and stuff like that, the first thing you think of is Motown, or the Philly Sound. So it all made sense. - It gave you like a reference point. - It gave us a reference point, and it gave people an understanding of what we meant without us having to sit and explain, what the hell is Motown Philly me? Like the song itself explained it. - It's brilliant. - When you heard Harmony, when you heard the duop stuff, and all that other stuff, you instantly got-- - It's really brilliant. - Your introduction to the band is a mission statement that we are going to explain to you, and sing about so it'll all be impossible to miss. - That's it, and we just did it organically, and we wrote basically what we felt Motown Philly meant. - Okay, well, we're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we're going to break down the beat, the third is the foundation for this song, and maybe a Trojan horse for boys to men's beautiful vocals when we get back. - Welcome back to one song. We're hanging out with Sean Stockman, and we're about to dive into the stems of Boys to Men's debut single Motown Philly. - Sean, Dallas Austin, he comes up from Atlanta, he's already got this New Jack swing beat in his pocket. What went through your mind when you first heard this beat? - It was dope. - Yeah. - Coincidentally, when Bibb gave us the idea to write this Motown Philly record, Dallas just so happened to have this in his stash. So with him, us going through a lot of his tracks, we came up with this one, we were like, "Yo, we want to do that." - And what did Dallas do up to this point? Up to this point. - Not much. - He's a nice little too, he's right, you're in? - Yeah, he'd done TLC's first time. - Not yet, yeah, okay. - That wasn't there yet, like he did that after us. He was signed at the time to, they named Joyce Irby, who was part of Climax. - Okay. - He absolutely Climax. - Yeah, so yeah, he was signed to her. So, and the deal was pretty wet. So he wasn't able to do a lot of stuff, but we were kind of, I guess you could say, his first big project. - Yeah, he was just a young kids too, just like us trying to get on. And he was incredibly talented. He had a lot of dope ideas and everything. The songs that we brought to him, he would bring to life. And that was pretty much the, what encompassed Cooley High Harmony. Like that was us and Dallas. - It was him taking sort of your ideas, these song ideas that you guys have been working on in school, and sort of like, bring him to a final point. - Yeah, so and that's pretty much it. We didn't have the production prowess that he possessed yet. So a lot of the songs, like please don't go and lonely heart. And this is my heart and songs that we already had written. We just brought to him, gave him some direction as far as like how we wanted it to sound. And then he just took the ball around with it. - All right, let's try and get inside Motown Philly as we deconstruct this beat luxury. Where should we start? - Let's start with the beat. - Let's listen to the kick and snare. And right off the bat with just these two elements, we already have a little bit of that East Coast swing or that new Jack swing. And we're gonna talk about that in just a minute. - Okay. - First let's just listen. (upbeat music) Just kick and snare, but that syncopated kick is already giving us something a little bit. - Yeah. - Right in there, we're already getting a little bit of that swing feel. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is at the height of Teddy Riley's career. - Absolutely. - And he got father in the adventure of new Jack swing. And everybody was trying to emulate that energy. He was very influential in R&B production. Dallas being the great producer that he was and understanding what made a track a great one. He took elements of that, but then he added his own flavor to it as well. 'Cause Dallas has his own style. - Right, let's hear a little bit of, since you mentioned Teddy Riley, one of his productions that would have been influential. - Certainly. - One of my first expos, I think a lot of people think of new Jack swing as beginning in this moment with one of a handful of songs that compete with the first one. A contender is certainly this one. This is Keith Sweat, I want her. - Yep, that's a good one. (upbeat music) - I love that. (upbeat music) - So let's pause for a second and talk about what that bounces, the new Jack swing. - It was all about the stabs. - The stows are big ones. - You know what I mean? It really, da, da, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Like it was all about those stas. - It was all the orchestra hits for those. - Yeah, a little synthesized. - We've got those coming up. We're gonna break that down. - Yeah, like just simulated orchestra sounds. - Late 80s, early 90s, those were all. - Yeah. - Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. - Like everything was all about the big hits and the stabs and along with the ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Like everything had to be just so huge and had like dynamics and all that other stuff. - And the stabs kind of replaced the crash in a lot of ways. - Yes. - And they make it updated in modern sounds. - Yes. - There's like a new thing to do. - Yes. - And they're harkening back to, we're gonna get into that exact sound in Motown Philly. - Yeah. - Because there is a similar sound that's slightly different. - Yeah. - But yeah, it harkens back to the kind of famous planet rock users at the orchestra five. - Yes. - Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. - Because that just got you up and going, you know, when you heard that. - And it's also a new sound that comes from a different tradition. It's from the orchestra. - Yes. - But it's in an R&B song with electronic elements. So it's this cool blend of new, like these genres are cross-pollinating. - And it was actually, yeah, a natural progression. Because if before those, I don't know if you guys might be too young to remember. There was this one disco record that used Beethoven. Oh, yeah. A fifth of Beethoven. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, those hits and that was just kind of like synthesizing companies like Yamaha and Korg and Roland and all those guys implementing that in the keyboards where producers could get their hands on it and do it their way. Exactly, right. Well, listen, let's just talk briefly about New Jack's swing because we brought it up. What is New Jack's swing? And we have a deeper dive into this. We can go back to our far side episode for running. I gave you a pretty long breakdown. So the summarized version of it so we can talk about this song is when we say swing goes back a long way. Swing is the essence of jazz. Swing is in a lot of things, and we'll talk about that. But literally, we're describing that in between an eighth note, you can have a straight eighth that goes, "Duh, one, and two, and three." But as you start to change where that's, if there's two eighth notes, what happens in the middle to be a sixteenth note? It could be "Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh." Or it can be "Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh." Yes. That tiny little difference. Yes. And where do you put the middle sixteenth note in between two eighth notes? If you put it right in the middle, it's straight, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. That tiny thing, the essence of jazz is the essence of swing, it's the essence of new Jack swing. Yes. And that's what we're hearing. Just right there in the kick and snare, we heard a vote on. Absolutely. That's the moniker, because there was a swing feel to it, which made the horns and everything that much more complimentary. Because the great thing about that genre of music is that it did have elements of music that we've heard before. Teddy Riley being the genius that he is, growing up listening to gospel and hip hop and R&B music, he knew how to reach back. So a lot of the music and the keys that he would play very Duke Ellington and Count Basie and-- (vocalizing) So when you hear it, you could strip down the modern day beat and then put a Count Basie beat under it and it would match perfectly. Because that was the essence of it. The thing that made it different is he put a hip hop beat to it. Yeah, and the sounds, the specific choice of sounds. Those louder drums, those louder drums. Make a big difference. Those louder drums that were influenced by the bomb squad and a lot of the hip hop producers, Herbie Lovebug, who was another guy who incorporated a lot of that swing type of energy to it. And just made it modern day and then you throw in a synthesized bass ball. (vocalizing) It gives it a new bounce. It gives it a new bounce, quote, unquote, because it's actually an old bounce. Exactly. So, again, that's just genius at work. I think I just put an exclamation mark on that. I will point out that a quest was like he thinks the Motown Philly is a jazz song in sheep's clothing. Like, in other words, like to him, he feels like there are elements of it that could have been right at home in Cab Calloway's song. Yes, again, we listen to take six. Yeah. And take six is just a Acapella big band group. Absolutely. A lot of their harmonies were influenced by Big Band. So, us being influenced by that and doing a version, you know, a very meager version, comparison of our own. Yeah, you could say that it definitely has a big 100% sound. I can help draw that connection too for our listeners. Just to perfectly illustrate this conversation, here is a 1931 jazz swing song. Don't mean the thing if it ain't got that swing. It's a 1965 recording, but to illustrate the point, here is jazz, jazz swing. (audience laughing) ♪ Don't mean a thing, you should ain't got that swing ♪ ♪ Do what, do what, do what, do what, do what, do what, do what ♪ ♪ You don't mean a thing, all you can do ♪ - When you're hearing on the ride symbol is da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. - Yeah. - That's a sped up version of the same da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. - Right. - That was explaining earlier. - Yes. - That was causing on that middle, - Or poises da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. - Yeah. - Exactly. And the modernization of that, which brings us back to our song, back to your song, back to Donald Philly, is there's a longer, deep dive we'll do another day about all of these rhythms, but Chuck Brown famously of the DMV, the Gogo version of this, of that same song, you can hear how it becomes updated and helps influence New Jack's swing, with his cover of "It Don't Mean A Thing," if it ain't got that swing from 1986. ♪ Don't mean a thing, don't got to go go swing ♪ ♪ Do what, do what, do what, do what, do what ♪ - Yeah, you can't, you can't have swing without that bounce. - Without that bounce, that bounce. - Like that's the bounce. That's what swing is. - That's right. - It's that bounce. And a lot of that has, even that, Chuck Brown record, it takes me back to, not me, I would live back then, but just listening to, like a lot of the "Speak Easy" music, that a lot of us black folks, you know, are growing up as a graph. Yeah, I used to go to and, you know, they used to drink alcohol from a jug. - From the jug. - Yeah, from the jug. - From the jug. - And all of that, and used to have these places where, even the tempo was kind of similar in the sense where, you know, the ladies used to wear it as skirts and they used to do it a little sat-shay up one day, man. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fly back then, too. - Absolutely. - The Motown Philly, just the embedded in the song, there's the Motown Philly that you were explaining. But there is also this black tradition, this jazz tradition, this Harlem tradition, because of that swing, it takes us all the way back. - Yeah. - To Duke Ellington and the 30s into the modern day. - Yeah, if it doesn't make you do this, it doesn't have that bounce. It's got to have that bounce. - Don't mean a swing if it ain't got that bounce. - Exactly. - It don't mean a thing. - But it ain't got that swing. That's it. - Let's get back into the stems. And that go-go beat makes its appearance even more explicitly with this sound. - Mm-hmm. - This is, I'll play it for you that I'll explain what it is. - Yeah. - I'll give you some context. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we're really explicitly getting that swinging 16th note. That's the go-go, which is the name of the instrument. If you've ever seen the double bell, the percussive, the Latin percussions. - I thought it was a cowbell, it's a double bell. - It's a double bell, one's a little higher than the other one. - Okay. - So that's the go-go. And then the entire beat altogether. ♪ ♪ - And then the last element in there is, of course, a very famous breakbeat. - The funky drummer. - It's the funky drummer breakbeat. ♪ ♪ - Yes. - With, I think, an 808 kick just boom on the downbeat. - Yes, yes. - That style is Austin putting it all together, very bomb squad style. - Very bomb squad style. - And all those elements back then is what, made music sound so rich and full because it wasn't just a high hat, a snare, and a kick. That's fine, you know, depending on what you're trying to do. But it's those elements, the percussive bells, the cowbells, if you will. - There's a combustible samples and stuff like that. It made it hip because it's those elements that kids back then could relate to and hear and go, oh, you know, that type of thing. - That's why we called it fat. - Yeah, right, right, right. It was fat. - It was fat. - It had a lot of meat on it. - It was fat. - The inclusion of the sample gives it great because you're literally using a sample. So it has embedded in it a little bit of the vinyl sound. - Yes. - You can tell it's from something older but mixed with something newer. - The elements that cleaned all of that up vocally. - Right, you were a contrast. - Yes, we were the contrast. And that's where the not too hard, not too soft came from. The fact that you heard the beat and you couldn't deny the beat when it kicks in. It's hard, but then we're singing. - You're smooth. - I was saying to it. So that was the, I guess, the beautiful dichotomy of. - That's kind of the formula, right? - 100%. - In a way, there's a little bit of the, and not thinking as I'm thinking about, there's a little bit of Motown Philly in that as well. Because when I think of Motown since there's 60s recordings, - Exactly. - They have more of that sort of reverby, simpler sound. - 100%. - Because it's before the 70s and you get the smooth, slick MFSB, TSO, sound to Philadelphia kind of thing. - 100%. - That was very much a part of us. And all we did was just implement it in our style in Norway. - Here's another sample I found that drove me crazy for 20 minutes until I figured it out. - That horn. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - I can isolate it to give you a little clue. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, brass monkey. - That's the one. - That funky monkey, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's that, yeah. So, yeah. ♪ brass monkey, chokey, that funky monkey ♪ - Again, back then producers were freaking geek scientists that would take a sample. - I suppose it was cool science. - Yeah, exactly, you know, right, exactly. They're better. That would take like, say, a four bar sample and shrink it to just one sound. - Half of them, just to get a sound. - Just to get a sound. And this was before all you spoiled kids was able to just kind of take and manipulate stuff with a graph and all the other stuff. You had producers that had a little wheel. - Yeah. - On the MPC 60. - Yeah. - And that you had to. - And Pee, Pee, Pee, Pee. - Nope. - Which is what I think. - Right. - Tell us, you used an MPC 60 for this one, right? - Yeah, yeah. - You used the MPC. And you used those, you saved the file, and then you would run it through the board to then mix it again and then give it more EQ the way that you wanted to sound. Then you run it back into the drum machine and then you'd do some more of it like, it was a process to get that one sound. - Yeah, it was really like producers really had a grueling job to create the library of sounds that they made because they designed all of them opposed to now. - There's so much that comes in just your basic. - 100%. - You had to know your records. Maybe you had ultimate beats and breaks. But for the most part, you either found the sounds in the world. There were no splice. - No. - There's no sample libraries. - No. - There weren't sample CDs yet. There was ultimate beats and breaks. There was a handful of sources out there. - Sure, sure. - But for the most part, it's your ear and it's your creativity and your knowledge of the machine. - And also because you knew other producers were using the same beats and breaks. - Right. - You wanted to make sure that your sounds were completely different from somebody else's. Yeah, I liked the way he did it, but I'm gonna do it this way. - Right. - So that's a producer back there. - Let's hear it in the mix. Here's what it all sounds like together with that. Last, the final step, which we now know to be brass monkey. - Those guys wanted to sing. They came up to me and said, what's your name? - What's your name? - That's when he broke it to his rap. - Right on. - So let's jump into the next layer. The beat layer was mostly comprised, if not exclusively, I would say, of samples. So here's the bass line. And I'm gonna start bringing in other elements. These are all, I believe, performed by him. and they sound pretty human. - Mm-hmm. (upbeat music) - That's definitely him. (upbeat music) - Yeah. (upbeat music) - With the piano. (upbeat music) - And then we of course we gotta bring in the horns. - Yeah. - That's him too. - Yeah. - Yeah, they're so synthetic sounding. - Yes. - That they have a charm to them. - Yes. - Yeah. - I never thought they were real horns, but we all appreciate when they, when they got here. - Yeah. - That, that was, again, the synth horn was the thing to do, almost like back in the '70s when you heard Ohio players play I want to be free. And you hear. - Me, me, me, me, me. - Yeah. - Like, you know, we knew they weren't strings, but like it's a leaner. - It's just a synth string. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - I wanna have to listen to your line. (upbeat music) - On that day. - There is a charm, as you say. - Yeah. - There's always a moment when the, when the sound is first used that there's some maybe cynicism about it by, you know, haters. - Yeah. - But then it becomes what, what Stevie used. - Yeah. - So I wanna use it 'cause Stevie used it. - Yes, I thought I'd do an auto tune. - Exactly. And then at some point somebody like T-Pain, who can sing? - Right. - Yeah. - Comes along and, and, and uses it. - Yeah. - I wanna hear some of those orchestra stabs that we were talking about earlier. - Yeah. - Okay. - So I would just say for my purposes, orchestra stabs, I associated them with like, not just, you know, the black museums listening to, but like the pet shop boys, you know what I mean? And like, there's a lot of those orchestra stabs in like the British music. - Sure, absolutely. So I'll just say we were talking a moment ago about the orchestra stab as kind of a cliche or it hadn't become one yet. It was in the midst of becoming one, meaning a sound that you would hear often in the genre. It's a staple of the genre. - Yeah. - For a planet rock, onward, having a stab sound to maybe replace a crash is something you would come to expect by the mid to late 80s, certainly. So this particular synth stab, I'll show you the source, I'll play it for you in context, and then I'll show you where it comes from. - Mm-hmm. - The way that it's triggered like that. - Yeah. - I love that because in the mix, it sounds kind of, it sounds like scratching. - Yes. - And it feels like that might have been the intent. - That was the intent. - That was definitely the intent, right? - For sure. - So what he actually did was he took this moment from the song "Cool Is Back" by Funk Inc. - From 1971. - Okay. (upbeat music) - Oh yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - He took that little chop. - Yeah. - And he pitched it up about seven I'd say, so. (upbeat music) - There it is, seven. And once you get to seven, it becomes this. - Yeah. - And that's to your point, 'cause you said a lot of people would use the same sounds, but they're like, "Oh, I don't want it to sound just right." You know, Dallas is like, "I want it to sound just like Teddies." - Yeah, you want to be different. And the cool part was being creative on how you used the same elements as somebody else did. Like, yeah, I like that, but I'm gonna do it this way. - Right. - And that's to cool. - And I don't know if Dallas would have used the "Cool Is Back" original source, or if he used it in "Yes" as owner of a lonely heart, which also uses that same sample. - That's true. - He might have sampled it in the different time. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. (upbeat music) - I mean, it's really just, and also it has to suit the key. Now, you know, in the "Kill Is Back," it really is an "A" key of "D." - Yeah. - So he had to put the. - He had to pitch it. - He had to pitch it, exactly how it, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there are the strings. (upbeat music) The dramatic strings. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - That's drama. I'll bring some other things in now. (upbeat music) - That's very Teddy Riley. (laughing) That's very Teddy Riley-esque, as far as, like, again, he was heavily influenced and. - He made this genre. - What things sound like back then. So you wanted to have those elements because that was hot. - That was hot. - You wanted it to sound like, but different from, at the same time. - That was a little bit different. - The key to producers, songwriters, singers, rappers, back then, was to not sound like anybody else. - And yet to sort of fit in, isn't the right word, but you want to have it be evoking something that's familiar in the world you want to be in. - We, but uniquely. - Again, we listen to each other. So by, again, by osmosis, it's going to sound similar because we're all in the same house. So to speak, if you know what I'm saying. But it's almost like a painting. Everybody's going to interpret it different. And I always say, like, playing guitar, for example, you can, I can give my guitar to 20 guitar players and they're going to play it 20 different ways. - That's a great way to think about it. - So that was really the point to music was to not be, as we used to say, a bider. - Yeah, yeah. - Are you suggesting there's a lot of biting going on in contemporary? - I mean, it's really hard. - Let's just say, it's really hard to tell one artist apart from the other these days. 'Cause everybody's doing the same thing, singing the same way, running through the same machines, through the same melody and the same auto tune. - Same slice list, I hear those a lot. - All of that. So it's harder to differentiate one female artist from another female artist, even down to the look, opposed to, back in the day, I used to look at my heroes as superheroes. Bismarkey had a superpower. Big Daddy Kane had a superpower. Chuck D had another superpower. BDP had a superpower. Like, and you can tell them all, they were all different. LL had a different superpower. Like so, everybody's goal was to not sound like that man, opposed to now where everybody wants to sound like that man. - A little bit. - Yeah. - Instead of Batman is that man. (laughing) So that's really what it is. And that's what made, and I'll extrapolate vehemently with people as far as why I think 90s music was pretty much the last era, decade of great music. People will say 2000s, and that was awesome. But even 2000s was only up to 2000, maybe eight. So there was even a full, yeah, so the 90s was the last inventive, creative decade. - That's interesting, yeah, to me, in music. Because again, it was us modernizing what we heard from the past. You're updating a lot of sounds and techniques, and you're synthesizing them in new ways. - And we're making them brand new. - And you're making them brand new in that synthesis. - And we brought attention, those obscure records, those obscure artists and sounds that people weren't paying attention to, so we were also giving back. Because thanks to those samples, those artists, those songwriters were able to get paid. - They actually got some compensation. - Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So we were the first generation. Cause it was after the Bismarcky decision. - To do that. So that's why I think 90s music was the greatest. It's amazingly special. And not just in R&B either. If you look at a lot of the music that was made in the 90s, think about it. We were, we had video budgets. - It's crazy. - Oh, five million dollars. Like, like, what you do. - Yeah, yeah. But what I'm saying is four seasons of loneliness was two million dollars to make. Like, that was a video. That was, they have nothing to do with anything. So you can, you can imagine all of the money. - Cause we had to buy the CD, we had to buy the tape. - Yeah. - We had to buy all that. - You got to imagine all of the money that was being made. - I will say the 90s is definitely the last time that artists were getting compensated for what they were bringing to these corporations. I think that part is undeniable. Because as soon as the iPod came out, it started to. - Here's another reason why the 90s was great. You could be a songwriter and have just as big a house as an artist, just by writing songs. You didn't have to do anything else, but write a song. Ask a songwriter in 2025 how much they made. - And even if that song wasn't in your name. If your song was, was, was track eight and not even releasing single, you could still make a living. - Cause trust me, those days are over. - Cause trust me, like, outside of boys to men music, me and the guys would write songs for certain artists, you know, on the side. And those checks were sweet. Like, you know, I can have like one record on an obscure artist's artist gold, gold. And I get a check in six months. And it's like, whoa, I didn't have to get leave the house. You know, that, you know what I mean? So again, that's what you did leave that out. - Well, thank you. Thank you. It was important. But yeah, but that's why again, I think from such a wide range of reasons why the '90s was the best era ever. - I think we hear everything you're saying. I think one thing that's undeniable is the amount of time and effort you guys took, even when writing to a song like this, a beat like this, with your vocals. Like the amount of effort that it took to make those harmonies work and those stacks work, kind of like without comparison. And we're going to get into that. that in our next episode. That's right. We're gonna get into the vocals in our next episode. You do not want to miss hearing the isolated vocals of this man and the rest of the group on this classic track. So be sure to hit play on part two when it comes out next week. All right, one song nation. It's time for one genre. Our friends at Discogs challenged us. They challenged us to do a deep dive into a subgenre and share a few records we think are essential listening. - Just a reminder, we at One Song use genre. As a way to talk about music with shared sensibilities, not as a way to rigidly define the music. - Yeah, we wanted to rigidly define us. - We're not rigid, we're not defining us. We're not rigid to find us. None of the above. genre has porous edges and borders and today is no exception because we're talking about garage rock. - That's right. - Is it about garages? Is it about rock? It's a little bit of both. Let's face it. - I mean, I think when we were talking about garage rock in general, we were thinking it's sort of the first DIY music movement. - I mean, I think that's right. I think that in the mid '60s, like after the British invasion, after the Beatles, you have a whole bunch of really inspired bands that are like, wait a second, we can-- - We can do that. - We can touch guitars and drums and do this ourselves, minus the songwriting and all the other things that production techniques of George Martin, but the idea of forming a band, which maybe we take for granted a little bit. And sometimes we think about as being maybe a punk thing. I think it's safe to say that garage rock was maybe a little bit of punk rock before there was punk rock. - It's a little bit like when boys to men came out and everybody in my school, they'd say, hey, we can form a knock-a-pele group. - There's something to that. All you need is a couple guitars, a drum kit, three chords and a dream. You don't even have to be that great of a singer. But there is an incredible amount of incredible music that comes from this period of time, which again is maybe what's roughly the mid '60s into the late '60s, where there's just an explosion of bands that get to cobble together, enough money to put out a handful of maybe 45s. Maybe never really literally get beyond the garage where they are practicing the music. - Or that abandoned warehouse on the other side, the train tracks. - Which is where the expression comes from. You literally just get in your garage and play loudly for maybe just the amusement of yourselves, some neighbors and whoever buys that 100 copies of that 45, you do put out. - That's true. A lot of the songs in this genre are more cult classics than songs that blew up in the traditional sense. - And they may have been lost to time or at not for the existence of this first record, which I'm gonna talk about. This is nuggets. This is not the original version. That would be way too expensive for me. I did look on Discogs before I broke down and bought a reissue, but it was a little too pricey, too rich for my blood. Ironically so, given what it is, is a compilation of a bunch of those early garage rock bands who might have been lost to history, had it not been for this compilation, which was put together by Lenny K, before he was with Patty Smith in Patty Smith's band. He worked at a record store in New York and was just a big fan of garage rock. So he compiled, along with lecture records, as he puts it, original artifacts from the first psychedelic era, 1965 to 1968. And this is where you get a bunch of one-hit wonders that weren't even hits themselves. But a bunch of songs, they're almost all the bands, like the electric prunes, the standels, the nicker bockers, the leaves, the blues magues. - There's so many good songs on this compilation though. I will say I do own this on CD ever again. - Yeah, that's okay. But this is a great compilation of friends. Some of my favorites include Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire, you know this is longer than a telephone bar by the Castaways. And then there's Night Time by The Strange Loves, which was later covered by Tone's on Tale, one of my favorite bands, that's between Bauhaus and Levin Rockets, they were Tone's on Tale. - That's a great band. - And the rest of this record, and by the way, it should be said, this is a two record set, but there are many, many compilations that this first edition spawned in the Nuggets series. And then there's all kinds of copies, like the Pebbles series. The idea of compiling hard-to-find records from older artists that may have been lost to time where it knocked for the compilation process. If it wasn't spawned by Nuggets, it was certainly popularized by it. And now we sort of take it for granted. Rhino Records didn't exist until a little bit later, who was probably inspired in part by the success of this record. - No. - What about you, Diallo? What's your garage rock pick of the week? - Mine is gonna be this album by The Seeds. The Seeds is one of my favorite garage rock bands. And this one, I didn't know about until I went on Discogs and did a little bit of research. And I found out, it's called Raw and Alive. It has some of my very favorite songs by this group, including Can't Seem to Make You Mine, such a great song. Up in her room, pushing too hard. These are some great, great songs by The Seeds. But this album has a very funny story because it's called Raw and Alive. And it says it was recorded at Merla's Music Box, which was a pretty famous coffee shop. I think on Sunset Boulevard here in Los Angeles in the 1960s. But guess what, Raw and Alive may be Alive because it turns out that they tried recording a live concert of theirs, not even at Merla's as it turns out. And lo and behold, they didn't like the quality of the sound. And they didn't even love the crowd reactions. So they went to the studio, they recorded their music live and then added audience sounds. - Oh, they recorded it in the studio and then had audience sounds like I did. - So I mean, I didn't just take the studio version and put audience sounds over it, but this is a live recording with no audience. Suspiciously, if you look on the pictures on the back, there's no crowd. I got to love. Well, there's this one picture of this random hugging. I think Sky Sacks, I think that's pretty much him, but just to spend your disbelief and pretends. - I like a good con job. But by the way, The Seeds is a great group. They broke up right after this album failed to chart, but it's a great introduction to some of their biggest songs. And again, whether you're talking about Kancey to make you mine, push you too hard up at her room, just some great songs by a kind of forgotten band, except they're not so forgotten because now that people have discovered them, people are covering their songs, so check them out, The Seeds. So those are one genre picks. Check out our list on discogs.com. - And we know there are so many more garage gems out there. So please let us know some of your favorites in the comments. - Yeah, please do. As always, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. You can find me on Instagram @DioloDiA, LLO. And on TikTok @DioloRoop. - And you can find me on Instagram @LUXXURY and on TikTok @LuxuryXX. - And you can follow our podcast on Instagram and TikTok @AtOneSongPodcast for exclusive content. You can also watch full episodes of OneSong on YouTube and Spotify just search for OneSongPodcast. We'd love it if you'd like and subscribe. - Also be sure to check out the OneSong Spotify playlist where all the songs we discussed in our episodes. - You can find the link in our episode description. - That's right, and if you made it this far, your official part of The OneSong Nation. Show us some love, give us five stars, leave a review, and send this episode to a fellow music nerd. It really helps keep the show going. - All right, luxury, help me in this thing. - I'm producer DJ, songwriter, music holidays, and KCRW DJ every Friday night from 10 to midnight. Luxury. - And I'm at the writer director sometimes DJ Diolo Riddle. - And this is OneSong, we will see you next time. - This episode was produced by Melissa Dwayne's, our video editor is KC Simonson, our associate producers, Jeremy Bimbo, mixing by Michael Hardman, engineering by Eric Kicks, production supervision by Rizok Boykin, additional production support from Z Taylor. This show is executive produced by Kevin Hart, Mike Stein, Brian Smiley, Eric Eddings, Eric Wilde, and Leslie Guam.