"Bowen Yang"

so i uh booted up today and um uh here's what i noticed okay you know you don't you just start talking you hope uh interesting thought comes into your head that's where i find myself right now so i booted booted up i i and what i noticed talking about booting up was gonna get you going yeah i was just gonna trigger something for the cold open anything ever funny ever happened for you guys when you boot up look at this oh sean's wearing a boot oh he's wearing still wearing his walking boot oh now we're into freestyle association and it's improv and yes and and yes and to an all-new smart smart i apologize for picking my teeth i just got through a bunch of really leafy vegetables okay so i might i might have to excuse myself mid uh mid mid record here you think well i mean well no why don't you get some floss i've got the i've got the little pick right here that you're i apologize you're having to watch you and the whoever the surprise guest is i apologize what you can't bear it until after you know no if i have something stuck between my teeth everything stops yeah yeah i'm kind of i can't it's it's it's like uh it's like a bee is stuck in my car i gotta i gotta pull over you gotta be you gotta be in your bonnet yeah you gotta be in your body hey there's a good saying you should start that you're gonna be in your body jb now how's your new setup jb's in new york now how's how's your setup pretty good uh it's good i'm just i'm in uh i'm in the hotel for a week and then i get the keys on friday so then i'll go over to the uh apartamonte and um and you'll be there for three four months yes yeah wow isn't it wild and i just got back oh i'm wild i know why i should be playing i should be staying at your place yeah by the way why don't you oh too late you dick you can invite now that i'm obligated to a long-term lease you know you could have done you've done that but it was it'd been too small for you i'm going to be there i'm going to be there soon jb yeah no we didn't why are you going there well because life because they're right um yeah maybe yeah so i guess that's why i couldn't stay at your place you've got a nice new fancy spot here don't you i don't have i don't have keys yet why because you're making advance here you're in the middle of making advance here no no no no it's a long it's complicated but uh but i'm very excited uh we're excited for you i'm super jealous you're you know how long i've wanted to live here um i know why don't you just get a little tiny something your second how many how many times have you had a place in manhattan will oh god like a like like a place not like a hotel but uh yeah you and amy used to live there i lived there for over 20 years full time yeah but that was just one spot right i mean different spots that you had here different oh my god countless you've had you have more or less than a dozen apartments count them more or less than a dozen apartments in manhattan probably probably around a dozen oh really yeah something like that close to it if not that sounds exactly so jealous you sean the one you have now sean is your first is that your first it's the first place i've owned yeah for now six years you know back in the back in the day used to move around a lot you know like you'd live with roommates for a year and then right and then somebody would bail and so you'd have to move across town i used to be able to move in a taxi one taxi cab ride just a couple duffel bags for real and like stuff like a mattress like a futon mattress in the trunk and then like go cross town and then i move back cross town and whatever like just you know this is sad i remember i think fondly back i used to live on 21st street for years and i what was that like i remember having i lived in this basically a studio this is such a boring story but i'm going to do it anyway and uh fold up futon mattress i didn't even have the frame so in the day i'd roll it up in the corner just a cushion on the floor like a swollen yoga mat yeah and then i'd have that and and and then i had like two pairs of jeans and uh two t-shirts and a dream it was so it was so simple yeah and there was just there was nothing there was nothing it was just i gotta say but but but isn't it isn't one of the isn't one of the greatest things about getting older is you don't move around like that so like that's it's just exhaust you don't realize when you're younger how exhausting it is moving and moving i don't know i still i still you also become attached to more you get attached to more stuff as you get older too right or do you get rid of it you do you're like where's all the comfort all this stuff hey sean is it is that a new placement for the sag award which of which i bet you have many i didn't yeah i'm not nobody counts in the background four sag awards why would you count that yeah but that's a new spot right over your shoulder no i don't know who put it there i swear i don't i didn't okay scotty i'm taking it i'm taking it out well let's find out what the mystery of who put the sag award in france but have you noticed that that people do that on their zooms they put their awards in the background why is that i'm more i'm still i'm still bothered about that tv behind you because it never gets viewed because it's in the worst well sometimes sometimes it's better well no sometimes if this is my office and so i know if there's stuff going on yeah we could see the fax machine oh my god he's really knocking down big deals over there but it's just it's just the placement of it is so locked in and then the seating on the other side of your desk is so far away i know i know no it's not that far anyway when scotty's got something going on i come in here and i'll watch i don't need to explain myself to you okay here we go ready watch this sure my guest today is smarter than all of us combined and practically half our age oh he started college as a pre-med chemistry major because he was inspired by sandra is just doogie house crazy anatomy he was born in australia moved to quebec then to colorado when he was nine later he moved to new york got a graphic design job to pay the bills while doing late night improv and eventually walked into 30 rock and booked saturday night live giving him seven seasons and five emmy nominations it's a hilarious delightful bowen yang oh my goodness what's up doogs doogie how's that i've never seen it i've never seen that show you're too young you're too young i don't think i know i've seen pieces of it wait bowen's got you you've got awards behind you too no and i and i you guys i know that's a bus to ben franklin that's this is ben franklin no this is this is the parting gift they gave me at snl the makeup guys so now they read e-scans of your face and yeah that's lauren no they they do well you're not done on snl yes he is yes he is you're oh god damn it it's okay but we we had we had a good time just last year i love this by the way there's there's a special quality to this um it's so his girl friday just you guys all overlapping it's so cool there's no we're the worst we're the worst interviewers and we get a lot of because we interrupt each other all the time people like i wish they'd shut up we're like well this isn't what a conversation is right people don't get it what about what about on yours you you guys overlap i bet all the time or do you do it together las culturitas we do it together now we used to we would do it we would do it very much on zoom in years past but now we're back to spatial shared whatever studio you guys are but you guys are gonna like really rorschach test my shelves aren't you i don't see this thing about awards mine are mostly glass which i feel like are less legitimate than what your awards because they could break well let's go on the books yeah bush yeah oh really i got a kate bush thing oh yeah i like kate bush what do you got a home pod is that a home pod up in there this is a sonos this is a sonos oh gotcha what's the gold one the gold thing is a golden globe it no this this is the newly redesigned academy museum honor it used to be i was there you were there i was there i was there when you got it i was there when you got it yeah no way congratulations it used to be thank you but they used to be smaller silver oscar statues and now they and now it's a it's a gold ice cream cone i don't understand why they changed it what's it for vibes i don't know excellent for being great at what he does which is no no i can anyone here describe what i do sean i don't know if you know that sean sean won a sean won a silver fedora uh yeah look at that but the right behind him it's cool for excellent cosplaying of indiana jones that's excellent it's and he was excellent at it bowen yang what what's what yeah talk to you hang on a second no don't yeah me i'm fucking talking to bowen yang wow how dare you that's so rude cool it you're just so sorry yeah no i want i want to talk to bowen yang for a second i want to know why you why how and why you moved around and what happened we're just talking about moving around and then sean intros you and it's like bing bong like all over the place all over the place why did i move around yeah your parents you were born and then you moved to quebec and then can't and then uh what did i just started in australia then you had to get the hell out of there for some reason quebec and then colorado yeah yeah yeah quebec and colorado no oh it was it was my dad's been at the same job for the past like 38 years but he got his doctorate in australia so that's where my sister and i were born in brisbane we moved to canada uh montreal uh where where i learned about celine dion and then i learned and then we moved to colorado um for uh just what you learned about there i learned about okay oh no i moved to colorado trouble right now at the tail end of i'm gonna get i'm gonna get in trouble i moved at the tail end of the clinton administration right after columbine and jaminet ramsey to colorado so as an The whole Clinton administration was about tail end. Let's be honest, okay, guys? Hey, wait, Bowen, how many years, how old were you then when you moved from Quebec? Because I want to get into the Canada stuff, obviously, as a Canadian. Let's get into it. Yes, I would love to. Eight years old. So I was hysterically sobbing, being like, why are we moving to the place where people get killed? It was right after Jean Benet, who was in Boulder, and it was after all this mess. Wait, but this is interesting. I'm going to tell you, Willie, because this is, and this will prompt Bowen, which is your dad grew up literally in a straw and mud hut in Inner Mongolia, taught himself to read by candlelight, got a PhD in mining explosives. What? That's right. And then moved across three countries. That's crazy. You can go to school for anything. So he got a doctorate in blowing stuff up. Yeah. In blowing stuff up for, out of quarries and such. Yes. Well, he loves it. He can take it anywhere he wants, I guess. Sure. Bowen, I love your explanation. I love your explanation. He loves it. He loves it. He loves it. But like that, I guess you would, I would want someone to be very credentialed before I handed him the keys to some explosives. Right. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And then you went to, when you, go ahead. No, you go, you go. I was going to say, this would relate to, Will, you went to, you were like blown away by Just for Laughs, which is what? A comedy film. A festival in Canada. Pun, pun intended. I was blown away. Pun intended. Just for laughs. Yeah, really good. Just for laughs. Just for laughs. So, Will, laughs, huh? Oh, here they go. C'est ça. Here they go. Ah, c'est ça? We get it, you guys. There would be like three street performers. What, what, Jason? I know French. Jason, Jason. I wish I knew a language. No, but you're allergic to culture. No, but you are allergic to. Tabernacle. We do not have this bridge to tabernacle. Please. I have one cigarette. Wait. I love, I love Montreal. So do I. Montreal is a phenomenal city. Truly, truly. I mean, like people say Portland has the best strip clubs. Montreal had the best strip clubs. And I could have, I had the authority to say this as a child. You drive through them on the way back from Chinatown into the suburbs and you would pass by the strip clubs and they were just, they had great lights. Vancouver was pretty gifted for the ballet as well. Don't you drag that. Don't you drag that shit into here. Yeah, no. Raise your arms right there. Just outside the airport there. I think you're trying to compare it. Raise your arms. Nobody does a peeler bar like Montreal. No, old peelers, yeah. Hey? Okay. Anyway. So what were you inspired by just for laughs? Like what, what, what's the first thing you saw? You're like, oh my God, I have to do that. The laughs. I heard the laughs. There would be like street performers and they still have that, but like it would be free street performances and it would be the most like Quebec, like crazy, kooky stuff. Like a mime who like pulls something out of his ear. Like, I don't know. It was just like clowning plus like jokes. I don't know. It was just, it was, it just didn't have to make sense. You know, like it was that. And then. So Montreal was what ages to what ages? Sorry. Was, no, that's okay. It was three to nine. Three to nine. And then to Colorado. And then to Colorado, nine to 17. Yeah. 17 to what was where? New York. And 17 to now has been New York. Wow. Wow. I'm 17. Is that, when people ask me, where are you from? I don't know. You're not sure what to say? I feel like it's stolen valor if I say, well, if I say, oh, Colorado and then Canada before that, people are like, and I tell them what years I grew up there. They were like, oh, well, you should just say Colorado. And I'm like, yeah, but developmentally, like those Canada years were important to me. Well, how much, but really, I mean, for any of us, how much do you remember before, four or nine years old? Not a ton. I remember a ton. A lot. Yeah. Just a lot of screeching tires, Shani? A lot. Not all of us had to black it out, man. You know what I mean? Oh. Yeah. Jakey Bates. Jakey was trying to learn how to die on the set of Little House on the Prairie and getting notes on, a little less on the dying, Jake. Okay. Little Jakey Bates with his bowl cut. Have you ever seen photos? Google Jason when he was a kid. He's so fucking cute. Yeah. It's unbelievable. And you can see him on, getting there in action, and he's got a, pulling up my overalls. Hey, Pa. Hey, Pa. No, but I think most of what shaped me happened once I got to California, which was seven till now. I mean, you know, I remember snow and things like that in Salt Lake City, Boston, New York, but in the ages before, but nothing really shaped who I am. It happened before then, right? Sure. I mean, so I think. Well, I mean, not as much as, you know, your Colorado years. You know, nine to 17. I mean, that's the whole cookie right there. I mean, Jason, let's be honest. Living in LA from, you know, 18 through your 20s, you saw a lot of snow then, too. Hey, huh? Let's be real. Let's be real, huh? Jesus. The fucking Porsche peeling out of water, brother. The fucking beak, beak full of snow. You got so wicked. Jesus. Oh, we had some fun. Oh, we had fun. So, Bowen, how do you go? So, pre-med chemistry? Is that right? Is that? Yeah, it was, it was, I was, I was taking cover behind it. Really. Because I was, I was, I was looking at colleges and I was like, purely motivated by like, what the comedy scenes were there. Oh, okay. So, so you. It was between like Northwestern and NYU. Yeah. So you, but you, so you went with the, with the intention to pursue comedy under the guise of pre-med. Pretty much. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Wait, we were just, we were just talking to, Colin, just about this, right? Where he was. Yeah. So he's, he's going into Harvard studying, was it? Economics. Economics. And, and then he decided to just sort of tack over to comedy when he's sitting at, so you could go to Northwestern or like you had, you had the, the, the skills, the, the academic qualifications to really get yourself a career that you could count on, a nice, healthy base salary and some longevity, et cetera. But you were like, no, no, let's go with comedy. That's what I want to put, put it all in on, huh? Terrible. Terrible. I mean, thank God it works out. Not terrible. But who's laughing now? But interesting, yeah. Yeah, you're killing it. So it's, it all worked out. But it's, I was interested to ask Colin about that. And I'm going to ask you the same. It was, go ahead. Well, I feel like with Harvard, it's like the lampoon is like kind of institutionally there. Yeah, yeah. I feel like with NYU, it was like, now I feel like, especially at SNL, it's like, oh, NYU is sort of the pedigree where, whereas like, I don't know, 10 years ago, it was more Harvard bleeding. Oh, okay. Interesting. Oh, really? Right? I don't know. So that was part of the thinking is, because did you end up going to NYU? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So then that was, you thought of that as possibly a feeder for SNL. SNL was a goal? SNL was never the goal. SNL was like too, too far out of reach. But I, but like what, what ended up happening was like people, people from our little ilk at NYU, our coterie of like freaks and weirdos were like being raptured up into the, the SNL spaceship. And then we were like, oh, wait. So now we have like, we have our little, our little canaries or whatever. I mean, it sounds nefarious, but it. Well, were you, it does sound, it sounds like you're hiding something, but do you, do you, were you doing, were you doing sketch? Were you doing standup? Yeah. Were you at UCB? What were you doing? This was, we were, we were, I was going into NYU right after these boys from Derek Comedy had just sort of like stormed the scene. It was Donald Glover and like DC Pearson and Dominic Dierkus. Like Rachel Bloom was in her senior year. Steph Shue was doing sketch comedy there. Like it was, it was all of these like people who were like, oh, there's something special about them. And then, but we, like you, at the time you couldn't say like, well, we're all going to make it big. You know, it just wasn't. You just did what you loved. You could never say that out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it sounds so annoying when people ask you like, would you have any advice? And I'm like, I, if you can, if you can be at the right place at the right time, but there's never any way of knowing. Yes. That's a great point. Were you doing anything simultaneously to sort of, you know, mitigate your risk? You know, studying anything else or? Studying chemistry, volunteering at Bellevue, at Bellevue Hospital, the ER at Bellevue, where I got fired because I had to like, because I like, I added like 10 minutes to my time chart or something. It was like, they were, they were serious as a heart attack, so to speak, about it. Like, they would not let anything slide. We'll be right back. And now, back to the show. This is really interesting. When I read that at NYU, when you were a chemistry pre-med, that's because of Sandra Oh. You were a huge fan of Sandra. Oh, on Grey's Anatomy. And then what happened, which I think is hilarious, and her character name. Come on, that's not a bit. That's not a bit. It's not a bit. It's not a bit. And her character name is Christina Yang. Christina Yang. Isn't that crazy? It's like the classic, like, your wires getting crossed. I was like, it wasn't that I wanted to be a doctor because I saw her. It was because, one, I wanted to maybe act, and two, because I was a gay man worshiping an actress's work. Like, it was just those two things. Yeah, it's a one-two punch. That's a one-two. That's a one-two punch. Yeah, for sure. But chemistry is not medicine. You're not going to, you're not going to, you're not studying medicine. So, like, what could one. Well, what are you studying, Jason? Let's hear your thoughts on chemistry. I want to know what kind of career one can anticipate with a chemistry degree. So, it's funny. Like, back in the day, the word industry, to me, meant, didn't mean anything Hollywood. It meant, oh, like, you're working in industry, dropping chemistry, which means you work for, like, Procter & Gamble or something. You, like, make deodorants. Right. Dow, yeah. Yeah. You make these, like, you make pharmaceuticals or you make, like. That was a genuine interest for you. You were going to pursue that. No, no, it wasn't. It was not genuine at all. It was, chemistry was because it was the path of least resistance to getting, to, like, finishing my credits. There was no, like, actual interest in it. I mean, I know some. It was a subject you had a handle of. Like, you didn't struggle, like, I struggled greatly with chemistry. Yeah. Like, that is not simple. On the bus? On the bus, yeah. On what? On the bus. By the way, nobody registered any shock on that. It was silent after you said that. I wasn't looking for shock. Bowen, you never had the feds, you never had a knock at the door of the feds for the kid who's a chemistry major whose dad is involved in explosives? You didn't get, like, a quick visit? I should have. You didn't have trouble traveling? I should have. I'm sure I'm on a list. Oh, no, you're right. I never thought of that, Will. I mean. But I wanted to say all the crazy SNL stuff. So, you were like, I read you were like me when you were a kid. You would sit in your room or with your family and do the bunny ears on the TV and get SNL on Saturday night. I used to do that and watch it by myself in, like, one of my brother's rooms because nobody was around. And then Sandra Oh ends up posting the show. So, right? Where was everybody? Sorry, where was everybody? And then your sister introduced you to SNL and then you were voted senior most likely to be on SNL in your high school? Because that was like the florid sort of like embellished language for our superlatives. It was like, instead of like class clown, it was like most likely to be on SNL. Right, right, right. Yeah, but there's so many. I was senior most likely to trip at graduation. Bless him. But there's no. Did you? Yeah, I did, actually. On what? Acid or shrooms? Hey, come on, guys. Let's all be alive. Let's look alive. Let's look alive. No, but I just think that's so wild. And so you'd watch it. Your sister said that you got voted for it. Then you went there and then Margaret Cho was there when you were in. There's so many arrows pointing that you were going to be on the show. It's just crazy. I guess, I guess. But then, so when the audition happens, does all that stuff flood in and you feel the stakes and the pressure of it? Or were you. Kind of indifferent. But let's figure out, like, how did that audition happen and then that feeling? Like, what was the. Yeah, how did you get into the machine? So, speaking of Just for Laughs, that used to be the pipeline. Like, the SNL talent people would go to Just for Laughs in the summer and, like, they would pick out their people. I never made it to that stage. And so I was like, I guess it's not in the cards for me. But then, like, my manager at the time said, put together a tape, five minutes, like the standard, whatever, entry point. And I was like, they'll never. They'll never ever fucking hire an effeminate Asian guy, like, on that show. Like, why would they ever need that? So, on a lark, I was like, no one's ever going to see this tape. So, let me just, like, fuck around and do what's funny for me. And then, somehow, slipped through. That's freeing, though. That's freeing. That's a good lesson for everyone. Yeah. That must have been. You must. That feeling of, like, fuck it. Like, kind of going to what Jason was saying. Like, that feeling of you're doing it and being able to, like, do it without a net because you just don't. It's sexy. Not that you don't care. It is. It's a sexy indifference. It's a sexy indifference, yeah. It's a sexy indifference, as Jason likes to say. Right? It must have felt really good being able to just kind of. Yeah. Do whatevs. Because what's this thing? Okay. I think I'm talking to the right people, but I just read this somewhere. I don't really have any knowledge of it. But it's that thing that, like. It's, like, not the yips, but it's, like, golfers have this when they're a little too focused on the swing. Yes. They just, like, lose all. They lose all prowess. They lose all capability. Yeah. It's when you're, like, not in a flow state, but it's when you're not thinking of, like, the micro decisions. It's when you're, like, who cares? Right. A thousand. Figure skaters have this. It's, like, athletes have this overall. Right. Where it's, like, pretend like no one's watching. Right. Hondo P. Hondo P. Nice. Hondo P. Hondo P. Fuck it. Guys, how young am I? But it is true. I do think about that all the time. You think about it. Well, literally, in golf, they talk about, like, gripping too tight. But there is that notion of gripping too tight in life on any of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you do that, that's what I meant. You must have felt really, like, God, I bet you that was such an advantage because everybody else is doing their tapes and they're so tight because they got to get it right. Yep. Yep. And I wasn't. I didn't really care. Yeah. So, when. So, this I read, and hopefully this is tragically hilarious and not just tragic. If you want to talk about it, we don't have to. But I'm fascinated by the fact that your parents sent you to conversion therapy in Colorado when you were 17, which is. It was hilarious. I mean, that's why. It actually was. Yeah. I'm like, there's some comedy, probably a lot of comedy from how horrible that was. Yeah? Definitely. Because. Well, because it was eight. So, the comedy begins in the whole sort of occasioning of it, which was the ultimatum. So, like, I don't come out. I, like, am discovered to be gay based on the family computer. Remember those? It was, like, my parents going on the family computer being like, Bowen, what's this? Oh, and they saw. A sultry, dirty, dirty picture. Really? Going through your. Your search. Your search history. It was a chat window. Uh-oh. You gotta close those, Bowen. You gotta close those. Wait, so we're sharing it? There's a family computer we're all sharing. Yep. Is that what it was? Wow. Exactly. So, and. And you just walked away to get a Coke and. To get cocaine. Yeah. To get Jason's cocaine. Yeah. So, you didn't close your window. I didn't close my window. So, mom prints it out. Prints out the transcript. Oh, God. Oh, wow. How old are you? Oh, God. 17. Okay. Oh, no. 17. So, she shakes the paper in front of you and says, Qu'est-ce que c'est? She said, Qu'est-ce que c'est? And you gotta put a little bit more Quebecois on it. Do you understand? Qu'est-ce que c'est? C'est l'homme, c'est l'homme. C'est quoi, zon? C'est quoi, zon? She. And then it was crazy. And it was like. No, Bowen. I would be coming home to my parents sobbing at the dinner table every day. And I was like, I have to make this right. Like, how could I cause this much pain? And so, the ultimatum was. It gets funny. I promise. The ultimatum was, either you stay in state in Colorado, go to Boulder, live with us, or you can go to college with your sister if you go to conversion therapy. But the punchline is, my sister was at the gayest school in the country, NYU. Oh, wow. So, I was like, sure, I'll do the conversion therapy. It was eight weeks in the summer, and it actually became like great bonding time because it was in Colorado Springs, two-hour drive up and down from Denver. So, my dad and I would like bond in the car and just like actually get to know each other for the first time as like adults or something. And then the guy is such a quack that like by like the eighth session, whatever, like we're going through like some diluted version of like cognitive behavioral therapy where he's like trying to like put me in my body. Like anytime I've been attracted to a guy, like it was because you were miserable. It's because you were like in pain. God damn it. But no, no, no. Then the last session. No, I. It just makes me sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is what it is. So, the second to last session, my dad is asking him for referrals in New York. He was like, Bowen's going to New York. Do you have anyone there who does this kind of work? He's like, sure, I'll come up with some names next time. Stonewall. The next week at the last session, Stonewall. Yeah, go to Stonewall and go to Pieces in the West Village. The last session, he like walks me. He like starts to go into this anecdote in the third person about one of his former patients. And he's like. Yeah, my former patient just gets off at the side of the road in San Bernardino, which is not where you want to be late at night. And his car broke down. And then he goes to a Denny's. And then the waiter's making eyes at him. And then my therapist starts to shift into the first person. And then I was like, am I really going to have sex with this guy? And then I did. And then he caught himself shifting into the first person. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. No way. And then like the blood left his face. And then in that moment, it was like, oh, I've just undone all of this work that we've. This like fake, phony work that we've been doing for the past eight weeks. Wow. And then I was like, wow, none of this was real. I walk out. I've wasted my time. He pulls out a little piece of paper. He's like, so I couldn't find anyone in New York who does this, but there is a guy in Trenton, New Jersey. And then my dad and I were like. I used to date him. I used to date him. But my dad and I were like, oh, I guess, yeah, I'll take the train out to Jersey to see this person. Just trying to like. I thought this away. I was like, there's no way I'm ever going to continue this. And so I was like in the closet for like a year at NYU. But then like all these comedy nerds that I was friends with were like, you're gay. And then by sophomore year, I was out. But Bowen, look, we're not talking about the 50s here. We're talking about just a half a dozen years ago. Right. And it sounds like you. And you're in Colorado, which is progressive-ish. And you're great friends with your parents, it sounds like. Yes. I mean, notwithstanding the fact that they want you to go through conversion therapy, you're still. like getting along with them and you're driving and you're bonding with your dad and blah, blah, blah. Like how, I don't understand how all this can sort of match because at what point, didn't you at some point say, yeah, no, no, guys, I am gay, I'm happy. And you love me and you're happy with me. And like, why are we trying to convert anything? Right, right. They, it's not really a religious thing for them, or it wasn't like, I think for them, it was just this cultural thing coming out of China. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, well, not even, it's not even on a political alignment. It's just them thinking like, oh, I don't want my child to have a worse, harder life. And for them, like they, so what my dad kept saying to me was, speaking of like the straw mud hut sort of ethos, he was like, where I grew up, this doesn't happen. Like there aren't people like this. And I was like, no, there are. They just had no concept of it. And so they are both scientists, engineers. They think in terms of solutions. They think in terms of what can be done to change this. And they had. I understand. I read when you said, you said, I read you said your dad will still occasionally suggest you could try women and you called it almost endearing homophobia. It's so sweet. Isn't it so sweet? That's so funny. That is so funny. It's so nice. Bless him. Are they, have you guys had the conversations of like, I guess it turns out there was nothing to really, to worry about, right? We've had, oh yeah. Yeah, great. I think we've, we've done the, we've, we've patched it up really nicely. Like they have apologized. I have, I've always kind of understood where they've come from. Yeah, it sounds like you had a lot of understanding of it. Like even early on, like understanding that like, A, you wanted to go to college. So you were, you were doing it to kind of just go through the motion so you could go. But it does sound like you, I don't hint, there's no hint of any sort of anger towards, like you were like, yeah, I get it. I know where they're coming from. That's very kind. That shows a kind spirit, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. I love that. So I want to go back to, if you don't mind. There's never a subject that Sean doesn't want to get away from. More than every subject. He's got his questions. He's never happy where he is. He's always trying to leave where he is. A hundred percent. We're enjoying Bowen. We're talking to him. We're having a real conversation. No, I know. Look, if you want, we can talk about being gay all day long. No, I don't want to. Whatever. Sean, just go. Okay. So the SNL screen says we kind of covered that, but I want to talk about, so first you were hired as a writer at such a young age, which is amazing. You weren't even on camera. You were. And how old were you? 27? That's a reasonable age. That's pretty young, though. That's reasonable. But the first time you were on camera, which made me laugh, I laughed so hard at you playing Kim Jong-un. Oh, thanks. It was so fucking funny. So good. It was so funny. Jason, are you laughing? I'm just thinking about it. Oh, my God. I've got to find that. It was so funny. I mean, I loved it. Thanks. And then the first thing that ever went super viral was you played the iceberg, the, what is it? Yes. The iceberg that sank the Titanic. Yeah, the iceberg that sank the Titanic. Yeah, Sean, the iceberg that sank the Titanic. Which is so funny. What was it like? Talk to me about being a writer and then going, hey, you know what? We think you should be a featured player. And you're Kim Jong-un, and you're this iceberg that, you know, hit the Titanic hit. The same sketch? No, no, no. What was the same sketch? It was him. The rage on this guy. It was him all along. What was the feeling? Was the feeling like, oh, my, like how nervous were you to be doing the thing that you set out to do on the first time? So nervous. So what I remember from the Kim Jong-un thing was it was when Sandra Oh hosted, as you said. Yeah, that's right. I was a writer. Insane. Insane. Insane, insane. And so they- Well, just insane. Insane, just insane in synchronicity, et cetera. Yeah. I know. It's all very kismet-y. How was that conversation when you went, did you go up to her at some point and say, hey, so I just got to tell you really quick. Yeah. When I was a kid. Did you tell her how much- Your responsible son? Yes. Okay, good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would like do these, pre-TikTok, I would do these things where I would just like, just kind of match like on a lip flap perfect level, like the little like- Oh, my God. Whatever, recitals and monologues. And I did her. I saw you lip sync the whole monologue from Devil Wears Prada. I did that. I did, yeah. You've got to see it. It's unbelievable. I've scrubbed them. I don't know why I'm like so ashamed to see them now because they're so like pre- But it's incredible. I don't know. They seem prehistoric to me. But anyway, but Sandra and I met before she hosted and then she hosted these other writers, right? Streeter Seidel writes me into the sketch where I play Kim Jong-un. I don't have contacts at the time and they don't put my prescription in the glasses that I wear. And so I had to be off book, basically, which is not what you do at SNL, as you guys know. Like, I just had to be off book. I had to like call a Korean friend, Karen Chee, who used to write at Seth Meyers. I was like, can you translate these lines into Korean for me? Learned the Korean, was off book on a foreign language. Whoa. Then it was just a million different things. And I had a sketch on that week that I had to be. I sat under the bleachers next to Lorne Michaels in the Kim Jong-un costume. Getting notes. Like, I'm in this Kim Jong-un costume and he turns to me. He's like, maybe we could, I'm like, this is the most surreal, that's still the most surreal week of my life. Pass the whispering angel. Did you? It's my favorite rosé. My favorite, it's on ice. Did you, God, it must have been, was it weird being, all the years you were there, just knowing that you were the smartest person in the building? You're learning languages, you're memorizing. No way. I mean, come on. No, no, no. I was no Colin. I was no economics major. He doesn't know, does he know French? French and Korean? Yeah, he can't learn Korean and then memorize it. Okay, so wait, now tell me about this. When you were 15 years old, you were doing improv at bars? Oh, yeah. God, yeah. Is that true? Yeah, but this is so, that doesn't age well. I feel like. What do you mean? I think that's fascinating. You gotta start on things. How did you get in, like, for young people listening, it's like, oh, if you get doing improv, but how did you get into the bars? What happened? So, there's a theater in Denver called the Bovine Metropolis Theater. It took me years to figure out, it's a play on Cowtown? Anyway, Bovine Metropolis. But anyway, they would do, like, Monday nights, like, kind of open mic situations. And our sponsor at the school, who is also my calculus teacher, this wonderful educator named Adrian Holguin. Calculus chemistry. I know, I know. Oh, stop it. You guys, that's enough. So, it was awful. I don't know who let their kids go drive into the city on Mondays. I thought that was so interesting. Yeah. But it was great. It was embarrassing. Like, we bombed constantly in front of people who did not give a shit if we lived. Like, it didn't matter if we did well. It was just about, like, it's that Chris Rock thing of just, like, bomb a million times. Right, right, right, right, right. Where did your sense of humor come from? I mean, your parents, you say, they're both scientists. But maybe, are they, super funny? I mean, No, certainly not. How did you develop it? Was it just watching? It was my sister. It was, guys, this is, and I hope you guys can accept this or receive this. It's like, I think it was, like, do you remember, like, this is the value in, like, network comedies, right? It's like, it was everybody, like, having the same frame of reference as to what was funny. It was like, it was watching you guys. Sorry to put you on a pedestal, but it was, it was that. Take your time through here. No, go ahead. Don't finish. It was, it was like, it was like going to school. It was going to school the next day being like, oh my God, did you guys watch Arrested Development? Or it was like, and Sean, like, after, after I did this thing, so Jason, my farewell sketch was, was with Cher. And I thought constantly, and I was constantly thinking back to Sean, Sean and Cher together. Right. And it was just, I mean, that's just like peak guest star. God, Sean, I love to be the best of a Cher. Oh, thanks. So good. Was that a, was that a moment for you when, when, when Will and Grace really hit their stride? And I mean, yes, there was, there was a moment when Ellen came out. That was, that was the big sort of watershed moment. But then Will and Grace, I believe, followed that, Sean. Yeah. And, and, and was that, did you feel a sense of like, well, there, there may be a spot for me. I, I, I, I might be able to just light my hair on fire and say, yeah, I'm not closeted about anything. There is, there is room for, for me and us and et cetera. Yes. I don't know if I got that far, because I'm telling you guys, like I never, I would have been, if you would ask me, right as I moved to New York, or like right out of college, if you'd asked me what my like ideal job was in showbiz, it would have been just to be in a room, just to be in a writer's room. Right. I never placed myself in those things. And I don't know if it's, if it's about like, you know, representation stuff. It was more just about like, I'm good just knowing the inner works. I would like watch The Simpsons and like study the credits. Like I was, it was, it was about that. It was like, that was the granular kind of comedy thing that I was working with. Right, right, right. But watching Sean, I think it was about like, oh, this is the language. This is the vocabulary of like, or this is just a sensibility of what like gay queer humor is. Yeah. And then it turns out it's universal. And if I could do that and take what Sean's doing, what Sean's doing and just dial it in half, then you could have something, something good. You get some kind of future. Like if you could just make it somewhat palatable, you know what I mean? And then you could. I can only hope. I can say that to the guy who's got four SAG awards and Emmys. - I don't know, who counts four? - So many people. - You're a, Sean, you're a, Are you an Academy Award way from an EGOT? No, but I'm an ET. You've got your Tony and your Emmy. You're an ET. And Olivier, so I have a toe. Oh, and a sag. And a sag. I have toes. Saggy toes. I have saggy toes. Saggy toes. We'll be right back. All right, back to the show. Wait, Bowen, so, but Jason, if you haven't seen it, his last, Bowen's last sketch, his goodbye sketch, took place in a Delta lounge, and it was with Ariana Grande and Cher. And it was so clever how you wrote it, or how you and the writers wrote it, whatever, that your wife calls you, and, well, can I say? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. You said, I forget what it was about, but it was eggnog, right? Yes. And you're, and, and Ariana Grande was the character. It was the Christmas show. Yes. Yes. And she says, all the eggnog you've made over the years, some of it was great, some of it was rotten. And you say, and a lot of it got cut. And a lot of it got cut. Which is, which is really cute. And it was very emotional. It was really clever. It was really clever to do a Delta lounge, and you were saying, it was really, like. It was, it's a little, yeah, it's a kind of, it's obviously, like, allegorical, metaphorical, whatever, but I was like, oh, something about departures. Yeah, it was great. It was like, oh, something about, like. Jason got it, finally. Jason got it. I got it. It just takes me a bit. He's this old man who works through the eggnog station, and then he's like, oh, like, eggnog, it's not for everyone, but the people who like it really like it, and they're my kind of people. And, like, that's, that's, like, the whole message of it all. And then Cher comes out as the boss, so. Yeah, it was really funny. That is sweet. What was, what was, talk, walk us through the, the thinking about leaving and, and, and, and the approach to that, the decision to that. What, what the, what the next, the next five to ten years of your life looks like, if you could program it and, you know, do you allow yourself to, to kind of make, make plans and, and strategize a bit? Kind of. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I feel like I can't plan around, like, trade wins. I feel like things are just, things are just uncertain. Oh, that is a great way to put it. Yeah. You know? I love that expression. Yeah, that's really good. I've never heard that before. That's a fucking great way to put it. But to, to strangle the metaphor, you do got to put, the boat in the water and, and, and point it, point it one direction, you know. You sunk it. You didn't strangle it. You sunk it. No! It's a gorgeous way. But like, where, where, what island would you like to arrive at? Yeah, yeah. You know? The Maldives. Like, do you want to do, do you want to do, do you want to, do you want to do just purely comedy? Would you like to get into drama? Do you want to do more acting, more performing, more, what, where, where is your, where are you getting pulled right now? All of it. I, I honestly, I'm sure you guys feel the same way. Podcasting was never on the, was never on the menu. But it's, it's, it's taken up a lot of space. Yeah. In a good way. I would love all of that. I think, just to go back to like the Tradewinds thing, it's like, I don't, I'm, I'm honestly like, thinking about where, like, where, where comedy lives right now. It's like, I feel like, even at like the Emmys, it feels like it's like relegated to this place, even though, I think comedy shows have this like, extra thing they have to do where it like, has to present something optimistic about the world. And it's really hard to do that right now. I think, you know, it's like, I, I don't know. I was, I was just watching stuff. I'm watching comedies and watching dramas sort of in equal measure. And I'm like, the dramas are amazing. I love the dramas. But I think the comedies have this extra thing to do where it's supposed to reflect something back at you and also be like a nice, a thing that makes you feel good. Yeah. Well, first of all, there's a, there's a lot of, in terms to sort of this trend of a lot of pieces of material that's not necessarily comedy that gets kind of, you know, grouped in, into that, under that umbrella. And, and I don't know how much comedy you do watch. I find that these days I don't watch a lot of comedy. I don't know if you guys do. I really just don't. I don't know if I'm missing it or it's just not the thing. I don't know. You can probably tell by, how boring I am. No. Yeah, there's different, seems like there's different reasons why comedy is, is, is not, not a big thing as it, as it, not as a big thing as it used to be. Scripted, you mean, like in that way? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's up for debate. But, but we, we need it now more than ever. What are the great, what are the great, I'm asking all of you, what are the kind of the great scripted comedy things that are out there right now? Yeah, that you would watch? The Comeback? Yeah, Comeback. Yeah, that's pretty funny, yeah. That's bad, I mean, I love, oh, God. Yeah, it's hilarious. Comeback. But even that, even that's a little bit, like, bleak. Like, it's like, oh, this is, this season's about AI, and it's about how, like, the writers rooms have, like, two people in them. Right. And it's like, whoa, shit, like, this is, this is different than it was 10 years ago when the last season was on. It's like, it just, it has these weird, it just has this weird mirror that, like, is, is, is sad to look at. And that's what's, that's what's hard about it. It's hard. Right, right, right. What about, I like talking about this, your dating life, because you said. I'm bringing this down, so, the vibes are so bad. No, I like it. No, what are you talking about? I love it. No, you're really making me think, Bon. Because, Sean, before we get into the dating life, you're really making me think about that idea that, like, and we want to get into your dating life, and we actually, we have some graphs. In five, four, three. And we also, your mom sent us some printouts, we printed out some stuff. Some charts. Some chats. About some of your options. Some women. Some of the female options. But, Willie, you know, but you, but in a recent Esquire, but I read your Esquire interview, the What I've Learned piece, when you were reflecting, you said, about work, you said, this is you saying it, you said you feel like you've hit critical mass where you did too much too soon, or something like that. Yeah. And you wanted to slow down and focus on quieter work. I get that, but just know that, I don't feel, there's millions of people that don't feel that way about you. Yeah, I'd take a lot more from you. Yeah, there's so much more. Oh, my God. Yeah, for real. That's terrible. Drench me. Jason. Hang on, Jay, your mic went out for a second. What was that? Just so we can get it, guys, quiet. Let's get it clean. Soak me. Oh, my God. Jason. I gotta say, Jason showing up to SNL was always like, everyone was sort of straightened up, being like, oh, Jason and I had a really nice, intimate conversation. It was like, everyone's like, I think he's flirting with me. It was like, Jason's a charmer. I like to get up nice and close. He does. That place, I love that place so much. I just watched that Lorne documentary. It was really cool. I loved it. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. I'm tired of it. It was very, very good. So, Bowen, because I've read this too, and I want you to only want what you want, but that you said it's impossible, you said it's impossible to date during SNL, and where you would go on a couple of dates and then just vanish. Like, what's going on? I would vanish. No, you would vanish. I put that on me. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's a self-call in. I would get swept up in the show and the work. It's just so hard to put any stake in your own life, it felt like. But what about now? It's impossible to do. Now, things are fine. Things are normal. I'm still unlearning so many things in a way that I am grateful for, and I also mourn how my life used to be. I do miss it so much. I've been getting dinners and lunches with people on the breaks who are still there, and I'm like, "Oh, it's nice." And I have to say this, because people are listening. It's okay to be single. Why are you saying it like that? Why are you looking at me? You know what I've never heard of? And again, this is a guy that lives in a cave, I guess. Oh, boy, this list is long. This list is fucking long of stuff that you've never heard of. It's not common to hear about Saturday Night Live hookups, and couples with the cast, right? Or writers or whatever. I don't think it's a gay thing. No, in general. Just in general, people who go to school together, that's all you have, or just your classmates are sort of like, "I went out with him last year and this year." You don't hear about that on SNL, and you'd think that you would just based on schedule. You don't have a chance to meet anybody else, really. You guys are in there all the time. We're in there all the time. Oh, but I thought you were talking about, Jason, like intra-SNL hookups, like within SNL, people are hanging out. Yeah, I mean, castmates dating one another, or a writer with a castmate, or writers and writers. You don't, right? I know, yeah, you're right. I just wasn't, yeah, I didn't really encounter that, but I don't feel like I missed out. Yeah, no, not at all. I love that your Instagram handle is @FayDunaway. That's your name on Instagram. I didn't know that until recently. Yeah. I'm not allowed at that. First of all, I can't believe it was available. I can't either, and I'm holding onto it for dear life. She wants to, I think she wants it bad. How much time does your podcast take from you each week? It siphons from me like six hours a week, which is not that bad. Right, and with your other- Which is fine. And with your other time, what's the ratio between work pursuits versus personal, you know, taking care of yourself? How hard are you working, Brian? I'm working decent. at like a reasonable intensity. I still am exhausted at the end of the day. Sure. I think I'm still kind of like my nervous system is still sort of like resetting from SNL where it just knows a work is done, then it's time to go to bed. Like there was that switch. But you have to now self-program. Like there was a schedule, you had to be there a certain time, but now you've got to do it all. Are you finding your self-motivation adequate? Not yet. It's getting there. So how do you guys do it? Well, I'm very good about like when I'm working, I'm very, very disciplined. And when I'm not working, I could not be worse at doing anything responsible. Yeah. Jason's one of my favorite quotes is Jason says, I want to aggressively do nothing. Yeah. And then when I'm working, I'm an animal. Well, actually the truth is, and I mean this, when he's not working, he obsessively plays golf. Because it gives him something to do. And so he plays it five, six days a week. And then he'll say to me like, hey, do you want to play tomorrow? I'm like, no. And he's like, I've got like one thing, but I can't do it all the time. Like he has to do it because he needs that. I have addiction issues, Bowen. I'm much better. I find I'm much better when I'm not working at being able to just kind of chill. Like I did my little stuff this morning and kind of like go to the gym and kind of, I find it like easy to watch some soccer, take a nap. Yeah. Those are just saggy, saggy days though, right? Where you're like, it doesn't matter if you wake up at 8 a.m. or 11.30 a.m. Like those days are like, I feel like I'm being irresponsible to another day of life. Oh, I'm still up at 6. I'm still up at 6 a.m. every day. Good for you. Get the kids to school, all that kind of stuff. You have to do, kids give you that too. Sean's on a strict chocolate cake schedule. That I do not stray from. That you never stray from. That's got a mixing bowl by 10.30. Sean, really quick, what'd you have for breakfast today? I had blood work done, so I couldn't eat. But then when I came home, I had, what did I have? Now you're angry. I had a peanut butter sandwich. Sure. This is a glass of milk, potato chips. Yeah, yeah. Before 11 a.m., it was a peanut butter sandwich? Yeah. Yep. At 10.30. There's no bad time for it. Not at all. There's always a good time for a peanut butter sandwich. So Las Culturistas, which is huge, just hit 10 years. Amazing. They've been doing that podcast for 10 years. 10. Yeah, it's great. Congratulations. Yeah, that's huge. It's really cool. What year are you guys on? Six. Half that. Yeah. Yeah, we just, we're about to hit six. Yeah. And then you have Cat in the Hat coming out November 6th with Warner Brothers, which is amazing. I love that. Bill Hader, Quentin Brunson. Did you see it yet? No. I love it. I forgot that I'm in it. I think that's gonna be huge. And then the last thing I want to do with you, which is, it's such a great thing you do on your podcast. It's called, oh, what is it called? I Don't Think So, Honey. Good shot. Which is similar to, who's that guy that, Jason, you brought on, the taxi cab guy who films The Subway? Oh, Kareem. Kareem. Kareem. It's a similar thing to what Kareem does, which is you have a thing. I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't have one, but do you have a I Don't Think So, Honey? I'm sure I do. I've got one. Or your favorite one. I've got one. Okay, what is it? Outdoor furniture. It's a scam. It is only meant to be dirtied. Your cushions are flying all around. You've got to bring down the umbrella. The rugs get dirty. There's no maintenance on outdoor furniture, but we feel compelled. It is compulsory that we buy it to fill out our outdoor spaces, and yet it never aesthetically looks pleasing. It's a terrible, terrible cycle. It's almost Faustian. I don't know how, but it's like we give up something. We give up our. The indignation of outdoor furniture is terrible. It's true. I know this is a very champagne problem-y thing to have, but it's just awful. We have to cover it when it's raining. They should give you a power washer with it. Yes. I love that. That's a great take. Mine is, I just thought of this knowing you were coming on because it just happened to me yesterday, is pulling up to a parking spot where there's a meter or trying to find a parking spot. Somebody comes out. They get in their car, so you put your clicker on because they're about to pull out and they never pull out. They're on their phone. They take 20 minutes. This is their time. I don't think so, no. But you know what I think, Bowen Yang? You are brilliant. You are hilarious from the first time I saw you. Thank you for being here today. I love you guys. I love that, Bowen Yang. You're a treasure. You're not just a national treasure. It turns out you're an international treasure of many countries. Continentally North America. The Commonwealth. Commonwealth. Thank you for being here, Bowen. Bowen, thank you. Thanks, guys. And thanks, Bowen. What an honor. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Nice going. I know Jason hates it. He hates an afternoon record. I do. Oh, my God. You're so right. You're so right. This is staying in. You made it worth it, though. Keep it in. You made it worth it. You've changed my attitude about it. If they can all be like Bowen Yang records, let's do it then. That was really fun. Thanks, Bowen. Thanks, Bowen. Thanks, guys. All righty. Thanks, buddy. Bye. See you. Have a great rest of the day. Bye. Oh, great. I like him. I like him a lot. I want to be his friend. Yeah, I know. I think we are his friends. He's really funny. Do you think he has any openings for friends? I think so. I think he does. I would underperform. I'm a terrible friend. I want to go to New York. Let's have dinner with him. Yeah, he's one of those people that's super intelligent and super funny. And I think the two often go hand in hand. Not in my case, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, I think it's. Oh, sorry. Do you want pushback on that? Sorry. No, I don't want to pushback. No. No. I need to get better about going out to dinner, don't I? In order to be just a halfway decent friend, I need to actually get out of the house. You go, though, sometimes. I mean, but I don't even take your phone calls. I know. This is true. That's like. This is true. You guys tried to FaceTime me the other day and I just wouldn't have it. You know what happened today? No, it was you and Josh, Willie. No, you know what happened today is the three of us were on a texting chain and then I stopped because I know you don't like to get pinged constantly. Well, just build the paragraph and send that. I don't need 17 sentences. But sometimes you need a conversation to go back and forth. So we're going back and forth with the thing we were all talking about and Sean's like, I feel bad because I feel like Jason doesn't want to get annoyed. So I took you off and I just went to me and Will. We have to manage Gramps. Really? Yeah, because he has a breaking point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about if I'll just leave the conversation? I'll just hit that button if it gets too much. Well, what would you say? Jason got so mad at me because he kept leaving Nerdle when we were doing it a few years ago because he didn't want the full back and forth and then I kept adding him back. He's like, fuck off. It's like the fish that wiggles off the hook and you keep gaffing it and pulling it into the boat. It was so funny. I'd be like, guys, watch this and then I'd add him into the conversation. That is so funny. Jason, what would you say if you left the conversation? I would say bye. Bye. Bye. Smart. Nice. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff. Smart. Less.