Bourlinguez #116 - Inès x Panama

Attention ! In this episode, the person interviewed has taken important personal risks. Before leaving for the adventure, prepare your trip well and take a tour on the site Diplomacy.gov.fr to consult the travel advice and know what are the dangerous behaviors to avoid. And don't forget to sign up for the Ariane series. In case of unexpected situations, epidemics, natural disasters, security risks, you will receive direct alerts and recommendations in real time. Bonne écoute ! Hello everyone ! I'm Inès, I'm 28 years old and today I'm going to talk to you about my very first trip where I said to myself "Tiens, I'm taking my backpack, I'm going to discover a country" and the country in question is Panama, which is a country of Central America, which is a little known, well, it is known but it's a little bit of a hit by the Costa Rica which is just next to it. And so that was the first destination I was allowed to take at the age of 22. And it was really a fantastic trip and I'm going to tell you all that. You are listening to Bourlingue, the podcast that gives the word to those who travel. Two times a month, I receive one or one guest who is told through a trip that marked it. In this episode, Inès tells the Panama. With her, we talked about reggaeton, to climb water and emancipation. When did I leave ? I left in 2018, so now it's starting to date. I was 22 years old, I was in a university exchange in Peru. And so it was the first time I left Europe and that I was just going to another continent and alone. And I don't know why the Panama has always upset me. Because in fact it was either we had a vision of the fiscal paradise and so I don't know why, it was the country. And at the same time, it's the paradisiacal places, the Caribbean, etc. So there was really this mix between the two perceptions of the country which I was very interested in. So without too much teaching me much more, I had taken a flight, the Panama City image. So it was just the beginning of the great adventure, I didn't know for how long I was going to leave because there was only one flight to go and no flight back. And so this trip lasted, well, it lasted a month. But it really allowed me to discover a country with a culture that really resembled what I knew in Latin America. But with subtleties that are clean because it is still a country of the Caribbean. So it is a bit stuck between Colombia and Costa Rica. And what makes it a very rich and very interesting culture. I first landed in Panama City, I would always remember, it was midnight. The airport was in the middle of Panama. I left the airport and I was like "How am I going to do it?" Because there was no exchange office that was open. And I only had sunsets which were the first currency. And I left the airport, I was waiting for a bus. And there was a woman who came to me and said "What are you doing outside in the evening like that?" "It's not very safe, etc." And I told her "Actually, I'm waiting for a bus." And to try to ask her for a free seat inside because I absolutely don't have money. And at that moment, Megan, who will become my great girlfriend, gave me a few dollars and she told me "Listen, there is the Diablo Rojo that arrives." And in fact, it's a very typical bus from Panama. Where it's a bit the crazy buses, full of colors outside, a bit exuberant. And in fact, the guys drive with reggaeton at full speed. If you hold your life, you don't have to take it. But I wanted to, well, I didn't know I was going to do this experience, by the way. And so it's called the Magico Bus, Harry Potter. And so she gives me a few dollars, the Diablo Rojo arrives, and then I fly for the capital. Panama City, it was really interesting, like the first point of travel, because it's really the capital in the 1000 contrasts. I really have it in the pretty central part, so it looks like what I said earlier, that is to say, building with wealthy family guys, everything is super polished, etc. And it's a capital that is very pleasant. And then, very quickly, I walk a few meters, and you find yourself in neighborhoods that are completely different in terms of contrast. It's really, well, the cities, a little Latino that we imagine, where there is a barber who is in the street, who is making his cut, with tools that are completely rubbed, we don't even know how he does it. Say, the mama who sells her food, well, a lot of noise, a lot of centers, a lot of people, and then it's the central America, so it's always very animated at any time of the day, with always a little feeling, not insecurity, but to say to yourself, in fact, I'm really outside my comfort zone, and we see me. And so, of course, I'm observed, where I have the impression of being observed. So, generally, it's also sometimes impressions. And for several days, I got lost in these views. Really, we go out on a bench and observe the life of people who are completely different from what is in Peru, but accessorably in my original life. And I thought that was incredible to learn from Panama, at least from the first moments of life in Panama. So I had to stay only a few days in the capital, at the end, I stayed a little less than a week. And really, I recommend it. And after this interlude in the capital, I was ready to leave, and there I received a message from Megan, whom I told you about, who was the girl at the Redbus who gave me a few dollars, who said to me, you know, come to the Panamanian suburbs, finally, from Panama City, I'll rent you out. And so, we spend a few days together, I live with a colleague, etc. She gives me an address, I go on Google Maps, I don't find it. And I tell myself, what is this? Am I going to get dragged? Am I going to get in a skateboard? And at the same time, I was just adorable, and we had already seen each other a few days before to drink a glass, so I said to myself, okay. And she said to me, don't worry, go to this Redbus, go to see, there are collective taxis, tell them, go to the 2nd Dodan, on the street, such a street, they will recognize you. So it was very late in the evening. I say, 2nd Dodan, from this neighborhood, to the guy from the collective taxis, he says to me, okay, okay, no problem. I was very good, okay. I don't know how he did it, but the 2nd Dodan, in a neighborhood that didn't have a lot of light and air, he let me go by telling me, hey, it's time to go. I was very good, okay. I give him his tune, I go out, and there, I hear, there was a lot of music, a lot of noise, I still didn't see it, because there was no light and air, so I was moving forward a little towards the little lights of the houses. And there, I find something, by the way, with incredible data. I meet a group of people who were doing the party in front of their house. And at the moment, I arrive with my big backpack, white in a neighborhood that is visible, we are not a tourist neighborhood. Everybody stops, there is music that continues to run, and there, the guy looks at me, I close my eyes and I see that he actually had a fling on his waist. I said to myself, no, but it's a joke. Oh no, it's a very short joke, I'm not going to go home. And in fact, he looks at me and says, what are you doing here? And there, I don't know what to say, I'm in a total tachycard. I say to myself, that's all. And there, I tell him in Spanish, well, in fact, I'm looking for Megan's house. And there, 3 or 4 seconds later, he says to me, ah, but you know Megan, welcome! And he says, wait, I'm going to show you where she lives. He takes me on the shoulder, he says, ah, welcome, it makes me happy to see you and everything. Everyone continues to do the party again. And this man, who was also adorable, since he was actually Megan's neighbor, took me to the stairs, and then Megan waited for me upstairs. So it was a pretty funny moment, because the days that followed, it really allowed me to discover what life is, in a big place, in a huge capital, or in reality, well, my first impression, it's an insecurity impression, although not at all. In fact, everyone knows each other. The doors in this district are all open. We never close a door, in fact. Everyone knows everyone, everyone takes care of everyone. And there is no flying thing that we can have. Finally, it even feels like in France, completely delirious to leave its doors open. And in fact, in countries like that, that we also assimilate to, I don't know, insecurity, as I said. But in fact, these are dynamics, two communities that are super strong. And I really loved that, because once they identified me as Megan's friend, but in fact, it was three incredible days. In fact, we took the car, we went on board a river, everyone was making barbecues, a little with a beer, putting on reggaeton again, deep down. It's an ease, a simplicity of life, that I really enjoyed. And it really allowed me to have a very unexpected approach of the Panama that I will always cherish, because it's my first experiences with locals in a country a little spontaneous. So after these small moments of life in Panama City's suburbs, I left in my retreat. So I did a little bit of the Panama, so it's not very big. Going through the jungle, in the city of Boquete, where I had made the intention of a volcano, which is called the Barou volcano, which is the highest point of the Panama altitude, which is fantastic that I recommend, in the Caribbean, because we are in Panama, so the Caribbean is a must-do. So Boca del Toro, where in fact I had my tent and I camped a little at the sauvage on the edge of a beach. And I was washing myself in the sea, washing my teeth in a little coffee that wanted to welcome me, and then try to ration my meals, because I didn't have a lot of money. So it was a fish per day. So it was 10 dollars to restore myself. And that's it. And the moment here that I found super strong in this trip, it's the San Blas archipelago, which was actually my last step in Panama. It's the archipelago where people go for their honeymoon, etc. It's the thing, as you can imagine, carpostyle landscape. And then I left with my tent. I got on the boat. There was a island where I could camp, and there is an island called Estadel Perot, which is the island of the dog, where people could camp a little like that. And so I took my little boat, my speed boat, and then we left home there. And for a week, I put my tent and I was doing island island there to go visit the islands. And what's really interesting, is that the San Blas archipelago is in a region where an indigenous community lives. And that's the Guna iala, which are the original men of this land and who have a very special way of living. So clothes, as you can imagine, father's collar, how to say, embroidered tits, they obviously don't mix. They live in this archipelago. And even legally, it's quite important, the declaration of lawyer. But in fact, they don't answer the Panamanian law. So they have a rather particular regime. They have their own laws, their own organizations, which means that it's part of the Panama, they have the Panamanian citizenship, but with these particularities there. And so it's a community that is matriarch and monogamous, it's important to say. It's the women who are at the head of the organization. And that's it, they live in autonomy, a bit like that, recoups the rest of the Panama, even if the people I've met are still studying in the Panama city, etc. But it's still a very encased culture. So I was able to discover it. And especially on the last days, I went to this archipelago. I went to an island that is the main island. So there was not really tourism in this island. It's called the Gardis-Ugdoub. And there I met a guy who is actually fishing. And he saw that I was looking for a little place to put my tent, the time to wait for a speedboat, because I wanted to go to Colombia. And so there are a lot of boats that go from this archipelago to cross it, because there are no land borders to go from Panama to Colombia. So either by plane, or by land. And I wanted to do it by land. And so I didn't know how long I was going to stay on this type of transition, but in any case, I stayed. And so this guy told me, "Come and put your tent just in front of my house." And in the end, we became friends. And he introduced me to his island, the fact that his family was one of the families who were part of the island's sages. So they have, as I said, their own customs, so they vote fairly democratically. And so he explained to me the entire internal organization, which is very interesting, and the fact that they mostly live from fishing, a little agriculture, and now tourism, which is actually growing, because as I said, there are a few islands now that are simply dedicated to tourism. And I can no longer accompany fishing. And in particular, she is in one of the cities of a man of his family to bring him some animals and help him repair his boat. So we take his boat to go to one of the neighboring cities. And there, I waited, I don't know, for an island to be built, because the island in which I was, well, there were houses, well, it was, I'm not a normal island, and there I find myself landed in a desert island. And there, in fact, there was just a cabin in the woods. And it was there where his family members lived. And I said to myself, "Oh, yeah, okay." And in fact, there was a family meeting, with all these women dressed, with their beautiful colleagues, these guys dressed very simply. And then he said to me, "Well, listen, I'm going to let you go there for 20 minutes, and I'm going to let you talk to me, so I'm going to repair the boat." And in fact, so he explains to me, well, it's the open earth there, well, these islands there, it's finally islands that are transmitting from generation to generation. There is not really a little bit of propriety, as you can imagine. It's really each family that, at the expense of generations, they live. And he really made me feel that tourism, it was both something very beneficial for their economy, but at the same time, literally a malediction. Because in fact, it paid attention to this archipelago, and there is, in particular, the attention of some investors, who in fact, they really saw a land of the future for everything that is luxury tourism. And coming to these islands, trying to buy a bucket of bread, the lands. And he told me, "Well, you see, this year, we live, but I'm not guaranteeing you that in the 50s, it's still the case, because we, economically, we can't do it. In real life, it's nice, but in fact, we are in an economy that promises tourism, which we don't have. And it's very likely that, well, I have to sell my island to be able to ensure a future. And a point too, which really bothered me in his speech, is that in fact, he was talking a lot about climate issues in the next few years. Because in fact, well, it's an archipelago that is in the Caribbean, and as we know, the issue is the rise of the waters. And the Caribbean is one of the first places that is threatened by this climate phenomenon there. And in fact, at the time where I was, he told me, "Well, there, you see, we have already lost sight of what was there a few dozen years ago. " I had trouble imagining it, because in reality, it was still places where they lived. I mean, I don't know, I was not able to cope with this danger, this threat of danger, even if he told me, I had trouble imagining it. And I saw in his eyes how to say, the concern of, well, what does it mean to become, because in fact, it is ancestral lands. It is as if you draw a flower and it was a real challenge, beyond the challenge of the economic future of this region. And in fact, by preparing this episode, I was again taught about this problem there. And in fact, I fell on several articles that said that, well, today, they were displaced. So, it's not a 100% displacement of the population, obviously, it's, I imagine, depending on the islands that were touched first. But the island where I was talking to you, where I met this famous guy, who introduced me to his uncle, this island there, the most touched island. And so, that's it. What struck me, is that in this article, that I had read, he said, but in fact, at the end of the, in the 2100s, there will be no more, there will no longer exist. It really interests me, because you say, you were in a place, you lived incredible moments, and in fact, what will not exist on the map, I don't know, it's, there is a very, I, it really interrupted me. And there, during all the journey I was doing to come here, I thought, I said to myself, actually, Gunaiala, it's over. And well, it's maybe dramatic, what I say, but it's a truth. And tourism, there is also for a lot, because what made me, what was telling me at the time, is that the construction of buildings on the islands, it plays on, well, the level of the lands, and the fragilization of the lands. And so, it joined what we said just before, is that tourism is a tourism that becomes a mass, it's a very dangerous tourism. That was a pretty important moment, because it really made me think about, in fact, the impact we have in tourism. And it includes me, it came to me, because finally, I come, I consume, in a certain way, I wait for a type of service, if I was with my aunt, but I don't know, in the end, I talk about it around me, and that's how we create the notoriety of a place. And that notoriety was there, it's also a danger. So, really interesting. So, from the evening, we went back home, we made the little fish, there was a Quinceanera, of a girl, who was 15 years old. So, we helped to do, how to say, their drinks a little, what is it, it's maize that ferments, you know, it's completely alcoholized. Well, of course, I didn't drink, but it was funny, to see her drunk, to laugh at that, and to celebrate. And then, the next morning, after that day, he put me back to the port, and then, finally, I decided to go to Colombia, by plane, because there was no boat, which was leaving. And I was waiting, I was waiting, it was still not leaving. So, I went back to Panama City, and I flew to Colombia. So, that's it. It's a beer that I recommend a lot, for the simplicity of the Panamanians, their gastronomy, it's full of flavors, and then, the dance, the heat, the heat that comes out, finally, a person who addresses you, and addresses me, saying "my queen", and at first, it was weird to me, I don't know, but what is this relationship? I said to myself, but especially when it's a man who tells you that, you say "la la la". And in fact, no, but it's normal, "my love, my rain, my heart", and that's a sweetness, and I... Central America, Latin America, for that, it will remain very important to me. Thank you very much for your story. Why did you want to tell this story in particular? Well, I thought about it, because, as I said a little earlier, finally, Panama was my first big adventure, as a woman, alone, who was going through a bit of a conventional way of traveling, in reality, it wasn't the craziest experiences I've ever experienced, but in fact, it keeps me in mind, because at that time, I decided to travel differently, or in any case, to travel in a way that looked much more like me. So, I was 22 years old, I didn't even know that it was possible to have this way of traveling, this appetite for other cultures, and so, it was a bit, finally, the journey of self-discovery and others. That's why I was born. To open up a little more generally, on your way of traveling, how did you prepare for your trip in Amon, and where did you leave the improvisation once you were in place? Spoiler alert, I never prepare anything, it's always on the head. Typically, in Panama, I said it was an obsession, but in fact, it was an obsession that took me a week to sell for my money. I refuse to prepare too much in advance, because, suddenly, there are so many expectations on a country, on interactions that we want to have, that we imagine, that we fantasize, and I forbid myself because I find that, suddenly, the journey is intense, both in the positive and negative experiences, and these experiences, you have to welcome them as spontaneously as possible. So, of course, you have to know more or less what would be the places you are interested in, once the destination is chosen, but on the other hand, apart from the first night, I never have anything else, and all the rest, it depends on my desires and desires. What will you always take with you in your bag when you travel? Well, concerning me, it will always be a notebook, where I can write, because, suddenly, I really take the trip with a form of introspection and reflection, that is to say, every day of my trip, I will write in my notebook, but it can be super random things, like, a person I met who said a sentence to me, who touched me, a situation in which I found myself, a beautiful place that I have seen, and whose landscape, I wish that the landscape is ever written, so, writing and travel, for me, it will lose you, so, always a travel notebook in my bag. Apart from writing, do you explore other media, other media to tell your travels? Well, I listen to many people's media, who tell their stories, but I admit that I, in fact, it's a super intimate thing, it's less and less, in reality, today, it's a bit the first time I open this door of travel to other people who are my close ones, and besides, even my close ones, actually, I'm going to tell them some anecdotes, but it's a thousandth of what I live, and the rest, I really cultivate it for me, and for the people who will ask questions who will open the box, but otherwise, I keep that for myself. Once you're back in the country, do you reach a certain form of blues? And if that's the case, how do you take care of yourself? It's a very interesting question, because in reality, I think it's catastrophic, the depressions are coming in, I'm depressed every time. So yes, I reach this blues, there's really a lot of meaning, we get out of our comfort zone, we're never in a routine when we're traveling, we're always in exploration, in the discovery, so there's a hyper-stimulation of the body and the mind which is quite important, and so the return, well, it's a return to something that has never changed, which is its apartment, its job, it's close to what we love, but which in reality, they haven't evolved from the same speed, at the same speed as you, during this period of time, more or less short, and so suddenly, there's a sort of shift that makes there's a total loss of reverberation, and so that, I'm super strong, and my last trip, I mean, more or less a big one, from the last year, where, suddenly, I was going to give back a lot, I went back, I said to myself, well, what can I do? And so, I don't know how to take care of it because really, I jumped, so it's just the fact that time, the time has made me fall back in my routine, I tried to store things that I had in a trip, and kept them, but in reality, we quickly get caught and each time, well, there you go. How do you consider meeting in a trip? What's more, for you, unique relationships or relationships that you try to make last? And is there a meeting, in particular, during a trip that has marked you? Meetings, I could never qualify them because in fact, they are what they are. Sometimes it's unique, sometimes it's friends who last. And next week, I'm going to see someone, a friend, a person who became a friend in London, I met in Nepal. So it's really, the relationship, I take it as it is. But above all, what I'm really looking for in my travels, it's... and it's a bit, it's a bit to impose on me, because it's not something that I had identified from the beginning and that I then repeated and that the red thread of all my travels has become. The interaction I'm looking for the most is the interaction with women, and with women. Because in fact, the fact of travelling, for a long time, it was something that scared me, precisely because of my sex. I told myself, but in fact, Inès, you can't leave with your backpack, simply because the world is dangerous. Men are dangerous. You are not accompanied and you are always told to be careful. And so, I was really self-confident in the appetitions that I had in front of the outside world. And it's precisely from Panama where I said to myself, in fact, it's incredible and I'm capable and I want more. And so suddenly, all the countries I've been to, it's countries where, unconsciously, I was looking for a culture that was completely different, to really be able to, when I asked women about their relationship to femininity, to the world, to their desires, it has always been the themes that were the vector of my veins. And so suddenly, the last experience that quite marked me, is when I went to India, last year, I stayed for two months. And in fact, India, by definition, it's the country in which there is a different culture and a relationship between men and women who are quite particular. Some will say, negatively, but what is a cliché, sometimes, yes or no, but that there is a kind of rape culture or that, well, women are an inferior state, that they are only mothers and nothing else. And so, I really wanted to live it live. And in fact, I had met a group of young girls who were in Varkala, so they still came to be a rather touristy place, and who traveled for one of the first times in two. And we talked a lot because she told me, "But what are you doing? Where is your husband?" And it was the first spontaneous question that came to their mind because necessarily, I couldn't not be with them. In fact, she was where, my male authority. And she told me, "Well, you see, we went to two girlfriends, but it's because my parents didn't want me to go alone. And in my head, it's something unimaginable, because I'm a girl, I'm 25 years old and I'm not married. I'm already outcast. And in fact, I really wonder how to position myself in the face of my society. So it was a challenge that came to me quite easily, already to go between girls and go on a trip. But precisely, I was really approached. We approached each other in our lives. It's because they were in high school, they worked in Bangalore, they were engineers. And in fact, they still had this pressure to say, "Well, how do I position myself? Yes, I worked, yes, I studied, yes, I still have, I have awareness that outside of my country, there are dynamics that are different and realities that are different. But still, should I finally, shouldn't I get married? Is my job a job that I will always keep or at the moment where I am a child? She always asked me, but in fact, what makes you want to get out of your country? Because they were never out of India, and in reality, never out of the region in which she was. And so really, it was a quite deep discussion that was quite deep. A few weeks later, I received a message from one of the girls who told me, "It was life changing, this conversation, because it really opened a door to what is possible. Because in fact, you finally look like me and I have the same convictions as you. And you did something and I, in fact, I would like to and I don't know if it was possible or not at this point. It may seem random, as a fact, but in reality, I really liked it. Because I said to myself, "What is it great to be able to interact and travel and to discover, in fact, it is an intimacy that between women, we can understand, it is the fact of feeling blocked. So each one blocked in his own way. But it was very interesting and very moving to know that in fact, in a simple conversation between three women, we can really immerse ourselves in bigger desires. To talk about the future, do you have travels in the boxes and what do you want to have? Very difficult as a question because you have to know what the answer is I want to go everywhere. But here, the countries that attract me, it's Iran. Well, at the moment, I admit that they are in a in a slightly unstable phase politically, but why this country there? Because precisely for everything that represents spontaneously, it represents the country of a form of religious obscurantism, whether right or wrong. A country where suddenly, by definition, we always come back to this theme. The woman does not have complete freedom. And so suddenly, the main teaching of my travels is that a country is never what you think it is. And one of them is a good example. It's two of my favorite countries, while from base, I didn't want to go at all. And I had many of my priorities. For Iran, it's the same thing. It's a bit the country diabolized politically, historically. And I really want to go to know if it's real. And also, I have a particular appetite on the same theme of women, but on religions in the world. And so suddenly, it's a country that is sh*t. And I don't know this form of system practice at all. And I find it very interesting to be the little mouse who discovers this. It would be one of my next countries. And the second would be Pakistan. I love to give it back. And the K2, which is the second largest mountain in the world that is in Pakistan, is one of my goals. And so I absolutely want to do it. Listen, we're coming to the end of this interview. So you have a small space that is reserved in which you can share an anecdote, a proverb, a quote that inspires you, etc. What I would say, but it's finally what I've said all along this podcast, it's you have to dare, in fact, dare to travel, dare, well, if you want to, of course, but as soon as you have this little desire to discover it elsewhere, you really don't have to go to the earth. And the feedback that I have every time of my female friends, is just to tell me, "Oh, but I'm not traveling alone. I've never been alone. So loneliness is something that I fear. So that's not a big deal at all. As a relationship. So loneliness, it really has to be authorized. These moments, in any case, try to be authorized moments alone, because it's really a gift that we can make ourselves, well, the most beautiful gift we can make ourselves, take the time to observe with your own eyes, to find yourself, to be at the height of your dreams, to overcome yourself. Well, it brings a huge satisfaction and a huge enrichment. But in fact, what a beautiful gift. And we will always share it because we meet a lot of people. You take a bus alone, you meet someone, you're in an inn, you meet travelers. So loneliness, in reality, is very relative. So that, you shouldn't be afraid. And then, it brings back to my second, my second observation, is that, well, in fact, we will never value the journey alone, as a woman. And once again, go. Well, there's nothing that prevents us from going alone as a woman. So of course, you have to take these precautions. There are reflections that we will acquire as a result of the experience and that will give us that we will travel a lot more in peace, a lot more serenely. But you have to be authorized because it's... Well, I've grown a lot as a woman through these travels. It has given me a lot of sensitivity to so many things. And today, I'm 28 years old and even my profession, how I think about it, my relationships with others, etc. and my relationship with femininity to so many things, it's directly impacted on these travel alone, that I was doing. So once again, don't hesitate, start by destinations that are reassuring. I had started by a four-day journey for a thousand years, to tell you. So it's really the door on your side. But it's not what I want. Well, I wanted to set the field. I was surprised. Do I like to be alone? Do I appreciate myself? Do I... I don't know. And in fact, I loved it. And in fact, it was with Rechendo. And so, if you have a suggestion, try it. And start little by little, start from places that are okay for us in terms of security and then expand if the passion takes us. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And that's it. It was "Bourlinger", the podcast that gives the word to Cell and those who travel. Thank you very much for your listen. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you also to my guest for his great story. If it's not already done, I invite you to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening app. You can also listen to "Bourlinger" on the web of travel at Lola Planet. You can also follow the podcast on Instagram, "Bourlinger.podcast". Oh yes, one last thing. The music you hear behind is called "G'Bourlinger". It was written and interpreted by Serge Raphael. Thank you to him. [BLANK_AUDIO]