477: Boo Schexnayder on General Strength and the Art of Comprehensive Athletic Development

-Boo, it is great to have you back on the show. Always love our conversations and look at Ford at this one, man. -I always had great times on your podcast and I've been looking forward to this one since the invitation, so thank you. -Yeah, I had a great conversation with Bob Thernhoffer. He was on the podcast not too long ago, and he was talking about general strength, and I don't remember if it was in researching material for the podcast with him or in the aftermath, but I always just keep coming across the general strength work that you've written up. And I also, I was going through old DVDs in my basement. It's funny that DVDs are old too. Who uses DVDs anymore? And I have about four from you have a long job, and a job, and then you have an inventory. It's like all the general strength work. And it's funny because when I got that, I think it was in my late 20s. For some reason, I didn't watch it right away. I don't know if I was busy with recruiting. It would not be like me not to watch it, but it's somehow sat and gathered dust, and then I opened it, and I finally watched it here at age 41, and I was like, this is the best, like every coach, this should be the first thing you watch, because it's all the general strength. It's just the basic athletic human movements that we should all be doing, or we should be able to do or be able to generate capacity. And so what I wanted to ask, maybe as a prelude to talking about general strength, is how have you seen the wave of that type of activity over time, from the 90s, and maybe you could say more physical education? I feel like physical education was more dominant back in the day to what we're seeing now. Have you seen a difference with the way that athletes are prepared, or that we look at that aspect of preparation? Yeah, no doubt. You know, the absence of physical education in schools, the absence of free play with young people, and things of that nature. People definitely arrived to higher performance training venues with significantly less preparation, and significantly more baggage. And I want to make it clear, though, that the reason why I do those types of activities is not so much because of catch-up needs, but if you showed up perfectly developed and everything, and had pee in all those things, I would still do general strength with you, because I feel so strongly in the key corners of the program that it cleans up that you just can't really accomplish anywhere else. Yeah, and with the general strength, could you just go through some of the key rocks that fit in those batteries? I mean, the DVD is pretty extensive, and Freddie On Who hasn't seen that type of work. I would definitely, I put out links to check out like presentations you've done and things like that on it, but some of those big out like medicine balls, fertile mobility, like if you could just explain some of those bigger rocks of the general strength and capacity building just so people are familiar. Yeah, what you're talking about is what I call general training. And I call it general training, because I don't really have a better name for it, to be honest with you, but it's been the term I've used for years and years. Basically, it's training that isn't really demanding from a neuromuscular standpoint. It's not speed-based, it's not power-based, it's not truly strength-based either. But what it does, it is a way to develop or improve movement quality is what it ultimately is. It consists predominantly of what I call general strength work, which is body weight circuits of different types, some very simple, some very complicated, medicine ball work and medicine ball circuits of diverse types, to be clear, not high-intensity medicine ball heaves, but a variety of different exercises that use the med ball in a lot of diverse ways. And hurtle mobility, as you mentioned, is kind of a part of that as well, because you're putting athletes through diverse movements as they negotiate those hurdles. And even weight-room circuits, not the true strength building activity is like Olympic lifts and squat moves and press moves and things like that. But the smaller muscle group lifts, the more diverse lifts, the more functional lifts, single joints, single limb lifts, those types of things fit into that category as well. And if you invest in those things, what you find is that you end up surjecting athletes to a very diverse array of movement experiences and such. And this is what they ultimately need. You know, when people look at general training, a lot of times they just over-checking the fitness box or something along those lines, but it's really way, way, way more than that, because what you're really training there, whether you realize it or not, is movement quality. You know, you have phasic and tonic muscles. You know, phasic muscles are the ones that are pretty much responsible for the big movements that we employ in performance, but the tonic muscles, they're kind of like the guides, so to speak. You know, they kind of keep everything in working order, so to speak. You know, when I go to a bowling alley, every once in a while, there's a little child bowling on the lane next to me, and they put those things in the gutters, those inflatable balloons in the gutters so that kids don't roll gutter balls and learn not to like bowling. Well, my point is, is that's what the phasic muscles, I'm sorry, that's what the tonic muscles kind of do, is they kind of keep phasic muscles directed properly and such. So what you're doing is you're developing phasic tonic balance in that respect. And you get so much better movement quality, and I've just found throughout my whole career that so many injuries are related to really weird movement issues that you can't identify, and even the smartest pharipus can't figure it out, but if you just do general intervention and subject athletes to a wide variety of different moving experiences, then the tonic muscles kind of start doing their job. The diversity of movement means we don't have any chance of overused syndromes or repetitive movement syndromes, so you're accomplishing volume with practical zero risk. And as a result of that, everything just kind of falls into place, and so many injuries and syndromes are just alleviated because of the investment there. And on top of all that, there's like no risk, and it's totally safe. Yeah, I like the term, the answers are found in nature. And I think we tend to, the way I think of nature is more of like a macro, like a, it's movement. It's like kids playing on the playground and doing a lot of different movement-rich activities. And I think we sometimes get so micro with things or make things so black and white. And I was even thinking about like those general strength days, like a high-low system where you have your big sprint and jump days on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then your other days are, like you could see, they're the fitness days. You're just getting some capacity. And I think a lot of people, maybe that's leftover from how people think about Charlie Francis' work, the high-low with the sprinting. You do sprints in the tempo and sprints in tempo. But Charlie was a big DPP and circuits guy. He's got some really cool business circuit activities as well. But that, yeah, that's just one of those things where I think if you just, if you look too black and white, you miss like all the movement that goes into that rich experience. And to your point with like the art of movement and how that fits in with being resilient, it's not just, it's not only, okay, here's the tissue, here's the isometric. And I think those are great. But one thing I've been doing recently for myself and kind of merging worlds is I like these like red balanced discs. You can get a full 360. It's like a wooden circle with a little knob in the bottom. And it's pretty hard. It's not like saw. And I find if I do a lot of circles with that, I step in it with one like do a lot of circles, my feet and Achilles tend to feel better. And it's not just one thing. It's full 360 motion. It's motion plus load. But then if I take that and I load it on like a hammer strength or a Smith machine, it's like this stable but lets me really push into that. So it's like movement plus intensity. Man, it's like the most efficient thing for that rehab. It's like all the stuff is in one spot. You know, I get loading, I get all sorts of little movements in there. Yeah, I'll say what you discovered is what I've kind of preached for years and years. You know, when it comes to general strength and these types of things, because I'm deep into my 60s, I kind of get put in the old school box, you know, and whatever and such. But it's really deeper than that. And what I've discovered and I've always invested in is what I call generalized interventions. You know, when you have a particular problem, whether it be a foot or an Achilles or a IT band or whatever the case, really, really smart people can figure out maybe where it's coming from and have a direct targeted intervention. But a lot of us can't and even some of the smart people feel there sometimes. So general interventions tend to benefit. You know, I was talking the other day with a Canadian sprint coach. And one of their very best sprinters was having some Achilles issues. And he sent me video and what I noticed was that just before the foot hit the ground, there was a really violent external rotation of her femur. And I couldn't figure out why. I call therapists couldn't figure out why. But what I did was I just suggested that this guy, look, here are all these rotational exercises in single support. You know, just go ahead and just start doing those. You know, just on a hook, so to speak, you know, we know that's the problem. Well, to make a long story short, after just a few bouts of it, the girl was fine, he reports. And then I asked her how she looked doing them. He says, "Coach, she was totally incompetent, falling down and everything." So the point is, is that she was so bad rotationally that this stuff was triggered. And even though we still to this date, don't know exactly what the issue was, we know that rotational intervention in a general sense, fixed her. So my point is, is that all of these interventions don't have to be about your target quite often. And then that's what general strength is. You're in Med Ball work, do they? You're painting with a broad brush as far as injury resiliency is concerned because of these movement quality improvements. - Yeah, that's a concept that has been really helpful for me is this came from, this really hit home with Aaron Cantor on conversations with him. He's a big play-based coach. But when he has classes or this movement training, I guess you call it for adults, he always starts with a very low bar to clinger. He's very conscious of how not making things so complex and micro that you don't just get to enjoy moving. Even if you're bad at it, like you said with that girl, even the bar for the athlete to clear is so simple that they are feeling their way through it. And I really like the idea of those general principles that we don't have to be that smart to employ, but the brilliance of the athlete's body can run with it and be really good. - Yeah, no you're right. - Yeah, that's been something I've been thinking about a lot with simple training. It's that idea of let the athlete's body be brilliant. And I've seen people try to do general strength or just really bad moveers. And the best and nice thing about it is because it's the intensity and risk factors are so low that you can make mistakes technically on the exercises and you're still perfectly fine. I've seen some people who are really bad moveers who will get on the ground and do a core circuit and every exercise looks pretty much the same because they are very good at moving, but they get a lot of benefit out of it just because they're moving in a way that is diverse and with respect to their capabilities, you know? - Yeah, just being able to get on the ground and doing those things. - Yeah, it's one of those things as well where every time I hear someone get really micro and I think this happens probably the most in like a therapy or physical therapy setting or it's like this is your issue and it's and you get really down to the like this bone and this little articulation. And like you said, so often, I mean maybe that is the answer. Maybe the therapy needs to be there but from a movement perspective, yeah, the things that are a lot more global can also be really, really good and that philosophy is fine, but you better be right. - Yeah. - And the other thing is that, you know, when you have an overused situation, I've never felt that the answer to overuse is a different type of overuse. That's why I always look at diversity as the cure for overuse as opposed to a different type of targeted overuse. - Yeah, yeah, the diversity piece. And I remember what you've said on a previous podcast, this is one of those things that I always, I find myself probably thinking about it comes across my brain at least every few months is the keep your big intensity days are very simple but then the general strength days, the low days can be extremely diverse. And it's thinking about, it gives you kind of that bucket on how your brain can work on that day too as a coach or a facilitator. That's why you have to be because on your key loading days, you really don't have an opportunity to be diverse. I mean, you can sprint or not sprint. That's like your own choice. You know, once you start lifting heavy, you really don't have many exercises that are available to you anymore. That's why it's so important to be diverse and they are the portions of the program. - Yeah. - But what do you think about, you talk about the phasic and the tonic and the way the body moves. And it's interesting to see the waves of things like people, I think for a long time, it was like functional training and now it's a lot of it is very much the same. It's multi-planar motion, just working different, different muscle groups, different planes, different rep styles and those types of things. Do you feel that the way that we approach, I'll just call it functional training or little muscle groups? Do you feel like that's any different now than it used to be? 'Cause I think your batteries remind me more of what you would get in PE or physical education. What is your way of thoughts on how that trajectory has changed in the past decade? - Well, I think that the problem, one of the big problems in the profession period is the fact that we tend to get on a train and ride it out. We have what we kinda in slang called the meat head philosophies where we're only doing big gross lifts and things like that. We had the functional training, philosophy, business, and so forth. I steal from all of those philosophies but not pride myself on the fact that I take the best from all of those and try to apply it in my program. I appreciate the more gross types of exercise programs and the things that we typically consider. I don't like using the term meat head, but I'll use it because it paints a very clear picture to a lot of your listeners. But meat head philosophies get bashed, but if you look at them from the standpoint of load, from the standpoint of endocrine responses, they're fantastic. If you look at functional movement programs, they come up a little short as far as potential neural adaptations. And you don't get the endocrine responses 'cause a lot of the exercises are smaller, muscle groups and so forth. But that's how the body is designed to move. I'm just stealing from everybody I can. Take everybody's best stuff and involve it into my program. And I don't want to ride any one particular thing or train all the time, but when it comes to this diverse types of training that we're talking about here today, a lot of functional movement philosophies fit very well in that, but you also need days where you're doing pushups and situps and real simple stuff that you don't have to think about and you can just rip out really quick. One of the things that is another important aspect of the whole general strength piece for me is lactate production because lactate production drives some very important endocrine responses. You know, with growth hormone and such that end up producing accelerated restoration. And if you're only doing complicated exercises, you can't work very hard and as a result of that, you can't produce the lactate either. So there's simple and complicated approaches, both have a lot of value and you need to kind of employ both, in my opinion. - Yeah. I like Matt Aldrich has described his training set up as you have like barbells, machines, and then a functional or a facial training area that's a lot more open-ended. And the machine's thing is interesting to me because bodybuilding circuits, low intensity, like you mentioned simple pushups and very basic movements. Where does a bodybuilding, like a machine circuit at low intensity higher reps, like getting a little bit of a palm? Does that fit for you on, would that go on a low day for you? - Yeah. - Versus like, yeah, okay. - Yeah, for me, that's metabolic. It's not, you know, or muscular predominantly. So yeah, and again, because again, most of the adaptations you're looking for are either glycogen, you're driving glycogen depression or you're looking at endocrine responses. So I consider that a metabolic day, yeah. - Sure. Is there any types of athletes that you would be more inclined, okay, of that low day? You got your big jumps, sprint days, and you have a low day? Is it, what types of athletes would you be more inclined to have do like more of the high velocity, med ball circuits and hurdles and more things that are more movement, velocity and nature versus, hey, we're gonna do a more of a bodybuilding circuit. We're gonna get a little lactate going. - I don't, I know you don't. - Yeah, I try not to like tight cast athletes. So to speak, I cannot try to subject them to his diverse an array of experiences I can. So practically everyone is going to, at some point in time do weight training circuits. They're going to do the general's track work. They're going to do the med ball stuff. And I genuinely don't try to pick and choose, it's one we, I don't know who is really super accurate about evaluating athletes and what they really need. And I'd rather hunt with a shotgun than with a rifle, and cast a broader net, so to speak. And again, that just speaks a little bit more to the diversity of training. I think I'll be starting to type as people. Once again, if you type cast somebody, you better be right. Better be right on or else. And I, like I said, I'd rather look at it from a more brawl standpoint, I guess you'd say. - Yeah, for sure. You definitely want to avoid that no SIBO without question. Like that, it's kind of like the low bar too. Like just giving everyone a low bar that everyone can easily jump over. There's not any confusion. Like just do it. And even I would imagine too, if someone was more inclined for like the bodybuilding circuit, maybe they would try to go just a little harder than that. - Exactly. - You know? - It could be, but you know, and when you're a general pop person, you know, you do what you like, you know, and that's perfectly fine too. But when it comes to performance, I just feel strongly that you have to accumulate in all those areas. - Yeah, that's something that I think, It's helpful to that's something that you do that I really like in the sense that I think Similar to how we think about okay, we can only do speed with 48 hours or power with 48 hours I think there's this thought of oh well we get we're in the weight ear among Monday So we can't do anything that's like spring the next day and it's it's just the body is so adaptable at that It's a totally different intensity and yeah, I know for me personally I I'm a little older now obviously then I used to be and I found my when I was in my 20s I did I tended to run a cycle That was a lot of times I thought if I did this too often I would get burnt out and early and so on my athletes But it we crushed it for like three or four cycles of this but it would be two weeks on one week off Monday and Thursday was like heavy weights Is heavy to heavy ish weights and temp even tempo springing is a weird combination but it worked and then the next day Tuesday Friday was jump trend jumps or sprints and then Wednesday and Saturday were like capacity and easy and But I found as I get older those weights days tend to look they start to look more like the bodybuilding days But they're good like it's like yes, all my body needs like this is great I mean not like not I rep it out body building but the kind of that flush that little bit of lactate type thing that general feel of it all It's like oh, yeah, this is I think this is what my body needs to be good tomorrow So you know, I like that idea too that We're sometimes I think we get so fixed and okay We can only lift and train the muscle these days and muscle No, that's not true on yeah, and and if you look at sport Seek his we're playing basketball ball night to night You know back to back nights and things of that nature. There's times in much training where I'll do a tough speed power Based day and follow it up with another one because that's what they're eventually going to have to do at some point in time Yes, so nothing's caught in stone. I guess you would say Yeah, there's always that we have our model and then there's always those situations that reveal there's a lot of exceptions to that model And yeah, when I was in high school I remember that with basketball our coach was running us very hard with like at the end of practice with like these chain fast Change the direction like suicide sprints like free throw line and back half-court and then and just Repeatedly and always kind of yelling at me to run faster and told me it was the fastest guy and you know Whatever however that helped my own identity and my feeling of myself But after probably a month of that or however long it was I mean I actually jumped and it was always back to back I was always tired. I would usually actually lift at home because we never strength coach Like I would just do a few sets of 10 of a few things at home But I just remember I was dog tired and just would go to bed and but after a year a month or so that type of thing I jumped my highest like after practice like we finished all the sprints I'm like I feel pretty good and I went and I jumped and I got my hand like three inches two or three inches over the top of that little squares Like 11 7 for a 6 1 guy. I was like man and it just made me think not I don't think everyone could handle that the way my body did you know, but like That was that really showed me a lot about what we can handle sometimes that breaks a lot of rules and I mean you always finish with five for the team to just five max efforts sprints at the end and I think I appreciate that little touch of speed at that now I appreciate it. Well, however it all worked out something something was going on there. So I think about that every now and then Boo how with so with different types of athletes track and field versus Like a team sport How do you look at? I know you talked about like get like typecasting but different like populations of track and team sport in general strength if a team sport Athletes being more multi directional with that impact your thoughts on their needs in that Department versus just a more general weightlifting stimulus. Oh Not as much as you think I'm a strong believer in what I call just movement quality meaning that I just feel that when you train an athlete properly and You end up with a balanced strength profile meaning that you're you know, you're absolute or you're max strength and your power levels and your reactive strength or elasticity or all in balance and You look at anterior posterior chain balance. You look at Core versus periphery balance and so forth When those things are kind of working for you you just move well, you know ultimately so I you know I feel that any track and field athlete that I coach Should be able to go out there and perform in a multi directional environment provided provided They got the rehearsal now that's the piece that you know ultimately needs to come into play so a track and field athlete of mine You put them out there on a shoulder run. They're not gonna be that great at it because we don't get the rehearsal We don't get the multi directional rehearsal and experience. However, I feel that if they train the same way and We're investing in the rehearsal and the sports-specific movements and things like that I don't think they would be deficient in that area because again I just think there were certain ratios and Ballaces that one we find them in training that you just move better you accelerate better You you you spread better you decelerate better you change direction better Weighted vests have been a staple in athletic performance for decades But the next generation in wearable resistance is found in light Micro-loads placed on the limbs of the body the leader in micro-loading and wearable resistance is X-aging gear by Lila X-agen is used by the top track and field and sports performance coaches in the world and it provides a level of Angular velocity training and Potentiation that is second to none if you want 20% off of X-aging gear by Lila Then head to liletheam.com That's liletheam.com and use the code just fly 20 that's just fly 2.0 for 20% off your order grab your X-aging gear today and see the difference in your training Athletic performance is built on a spectrum of training methods from high velocity skills to power training to strength work And on one end of that spectrum on that strength end You have the most targeted work in the form of machines and this is part of the reason that so many top speed and strength coaches Have their favorite machines to deliver that targeted stimulus for decades hammer strength has been a top provider of Reliable effective machines that are trusted by coaches and athletes worldwide They fit seamlessly into that total performance program Delivering that targeted strength stimulus when it comes to your machine-based Strength training needs think hammer strength. Yeah, I like the idea of Athletes who play basketball and then they go do high jump like high school happens a lot or whatever other events and Right off the basketball court. You give them a couple weeks to get used to it They can jump really high and then if they don't get movement richness in their training They sometimes and oftentimes start losing their spring and I that makes me think about the general strength piece and too much intensity at one specific little thing and not enough diversity I Like watching in your DVD that I you know, I finally what I'm embarrassed. I didn't watch your analysis I'm like 20 so good book five years ago. I haven't I don't feel yeah Yeah, so but one of the things I saw in there was a scramble circuit and I was like oh like if I wasn't playing a sport, but I was a track athlete I Was thinking oh this would fit a fair amount of qualities because it was like an exercise like a push up Then you sprint was it like 15 meters or something and then you drop and do air squats or whatever it is and then you just keep going back So you get a little excel you get a d-cell you get a Functional-based movement and you keep repeating that and I remember when my Mike my track coaching college must have been influenced by your work. This was when I was about 2003 2006 was my Days and he did the thing called he called a scramble circuit It was like jogging all over the place jogging all over the field of the bleachers and then every like 20 or 50 meters we would drop down and do a general strength movie doing our squats or push ups or lunges or whatever Out whatever it was and then different athletes would call out how many of whatever it was we were gonna do And that was that was a favorite workout of a lot of people in the team I think people liked that little aerobic of the running the diversity and then Eam contribution But then I saw your scramble circuit work and anyways what I was gonna ask you alongside that is What's your take on a linear athlete like a track athlete and then that Multi-directional like like you mentioned a shuttle run like would you have track athletes do like shuttle run pro Gilties as part of their work or with that scramble how would that with that scramble circuit factor? And can you tell me a little bit about that multi-directional translating into the the linear for a track athlete? I don't spend a ton of time on it with linear track people But it is embedded in the program, you know the scramble circuits are a big part of that, you know You know one thing you didn't mention about those scramble circuits That's probably the most valuable thing is the reaction meaning that you know when you're doing a push up and I shout sprint You got to get on your feet like you got to figure it out, you know So there's a lot of gross movement organization that takes place, you know if you put cone drills out there You know you can kind of look at the guy and who's in line in front of you how they do the cone drill You can kind of plan it out But in that situation you have to figure it out instantly so you you're You're actually driving and improving our innate movement organization processes and then if you look at the drills and exercises that I do there's lots of lateral stuff there's lots of backwards stuff and things of that nature. Sometimes as a track person, I get put in a box like, "Oh, you don't do deceleration or whatever." Every time I ever had a kid who did a ploy or when they hit the ground, they decelerated. Every time a kid ever sprinted, they're not still sprinting. They stopped at some time. Whereas we didn't maybe make a concerted effort to say, "This is deceleration training. The deceleration component was involved in there as well." Yeah, without question. I'm really glad you mentioned the reaction piece. I can't believe I forgot that. I was just going through some of Bud Winters' old work. One of the literature about him, they talk about this finishery had. It was called killer dealers or something. People would, I think people would jaw. He had a whistle. Every time blue the whistle, you had to sprint. But when he blew it again, I think you just kind of jogged in place. But it was reaction-based. You did this for 400 meters. I think, to me, I'm like the magic in that is not that it's just a tough drill. There's something to react to. There's this uncertainty. You get that feeling like you're in a sport. I love that. You have that reaction piece. The longer I've gone and away from high school basketball, I try to get an ultimate frisbee when I can and anything that's a sport. But I find if I can't do that, you need something to react to on occasion because it brings out those lower, not lower, I would say those more inner centers of the how we're athletic. Yeah, a lot of our movement organization doesn't occur in the brain. It occurs so cortically, whatever. That's what you're ultimately drilling or practicing or training in those scenarios. That's important. Why are some people more or more or less alive and some people eventually do become coordinated is because those are the things that you're actually training and challenging. Yeah. With general strength, circuits relative to tempo. As to my understanding when people lay out your programming, it looks like you're a fan. Maybe this is more specific to track. I do like some long sprinting for team sport athletes from that elastic, like an eight foot and ankle perspective. But I've seen a lot of times you'll have a general strength circuit of work on like a Tuesday and Thursday and then the tempo sprints are a Saturday. What's your thought process on needs? So like a Charlie Francis, okay, we're doing, and I'm sure Charlie didn't always do this. I'm sure he did a lot of GPP as well, but a comment thought would be okay for track and field. We're going to sprint fast on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I will do slow tempo Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. What's your thoughts on that dial of more tempo sprints versus more general like more diverse movement, more rich movement? Yeah. There's something we call general capacity that I think we kind of need to know as a sports part of what we do in temples kind of been the way that we do that. We're track and feel people. You got to run. Running is a part of the sport. So there's always going to be a running component. The reason why I tend to invest more in the other stuff that general strength and med ball and so forth is because I feel that temple lights the fuses on a lot of your soft tissue injuries and problems. You know, to track clothes running is exciting, but to the human body, it's pretty boring. It's just right. That's right. Left repeat. And, you know, so high volumes of running tend to produce repetitive stresses. And you get your tight lower back and you get your tight hip flexors and you get your tight hamstrings and so forth. And that stuff just doesn't go away. On the other hand, if I pick a circuit and I have 12 different exercises, now I have 12 different movement patterns and I have an opportunity to break up that right left right left pattern. And I also have the opportunity to um, uh, subject to have these to a diverse array of movement experiences. So I tried to respect the need to run, but I also feel that if you're like a, even if you're a track coach, if you're only doing your base fitness or base capacity work using running, then you're probably going to end up with a lot of soft tissue issues that you're going to eventually ball you down to some extent. Interesting. I'm going to come to team sport athletes. The only team sport athletes that that I really like to do temple with are the ones that really don't run in their sports like volleyball, for example. Ah, and because that's new to them, you know, whereas to a track and feel athlete like, I mean, you know, the old saying, my sport is your sports punishment. Yeah, I'm not going to do that to attract you. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of that movement diversity, that is that thing that volleyball just does not get. And I think it was you a long time ago on the show who said something about exposing volleyball players to max velocity and seeing vertical jump improvements just because they just don't get that and what, you know, what a stimulus that could be. And yeah, I actually, I work with a volleyball player online who does like semi pro type tournaments and stuff like that. And I put a fair amount not too much like not as much as I would put some other athletes tempo, but I turn it down a little bit. But that's I think I'm like, that is, I think that is good for him. So you've confirmed my, my hunch there with that. And that yeah, it definitely, it's an interesting thought on what, what aren't you getting in your sport? But then how far do I want to take that thing? You aren't getting. Maybe that's the magic balance point. It's a job with every performance coach to prepare an athlete for competition, but it's also your responsibility when you see overuse and competition to find ways to contrast that or alleviate it. You know, I remember back in the day when basketball, you know, every performance coach used to do a lot of change of direction with basketball players. And the basketball players were on the court eight months a year. Well, now the basketball players are on the court 13 months a year. And the same dosages of change of direction stuff are going to produce massive injuries because they're always getting that stuff on the court. That's a, that's a, and they're, and when we were figuring this stuff out, there were a lot of injuries in the interim. My point is is that that's a chance. And then, example of a situation where our training culture did not adapt to what changes in sport culture, we were seeing in that time. Yeah. I like that reminds me of Dan John and Paul in the book, Easy Strength. They talk about same but different. Like Tommy Cono, Olympic Weightlifter, he would do bodybuilding for like two or three months in law, his off season. That's like the same thing, but different. You know, it's like you could just keep doing moral and picklifting, but probably wouldn't be great for those stress strain pathways. So, and it makes me think of those volleyball players. It's still explosive. You're still moving with a relative, you know, good angular velocity and things, but it's just faster and straight ahead. It's same but different. Same but different and different. Just took with me to the general component. Yeah. With with tempo work, you know, it gets me thinking maybe this is more of a track specific question. I mean, I'm sure everyone will always point to those coaches who are super successful running a lot of tempo. But then so it makes me think, well, if you can survive it and you don't get hurt, then and you're the type of athlete that does well at a lot of tempo, then it probably was good for you or if the culture, you know, is good culture around it, but it kind of makes me think with something like a track or even I you could say with even basketball too. It's like in season, you probably want to change directions a lot, but you can only do as much as you can, you know, before the thing and same thing with track that you want to do a good amount of running, but you can only do as much as you can. And so there's that dial that to bring in the different. Yeah. Maybe that's yeah. Yeah. The other piece is like at what point are we doing so much tempo that these athletes are not capable of progressing the intensities in training. You know, if you do tempo in the track meet, you get your butt beat. You know, at some point in time, the velocity is an intensity is have to go up. And there are programs that basically kind of rely on a rebound effect where these athletes kind of freshen up from all of the abuse they've taken. So it's arguable whether they actually train through their sport or whether they actually just did something and kind of bounce back and got fresh. And as a result, we're able to perform at a decent level. So ultimately, volume will prevent intensity from increasing. And there's lots of kids, I think in temple driven programs when I say temple, I mean massively, you know, massive of all that probably never trained at the intensities that they could. And as a result of that, they experienced some success because they're working hard and hard work is important, but they never quite get to where they could be because of that. And you know, if you look at track and feel culture is generally speaking, you don't see volumes going up anymore. You see volumes going down. You know, what's happening is, you know, some kid puts out a great time and like now all of a sudden, I understand that I have to run that time in order to be competitive. So the coaches start setting up their training to adapt to that model there. And then they find they can't do as much volume as they could before, but that's okay. And the end of kids end up doing well. So you've seen a constant trend in track and feel of decreasing volumes and increasing intensities over the last 30 years or so that's been driven not only by coaches education, but also been driven by need, so to speak. And as a result of that volumes are a lot less, you know Gary. Lincoln or I remember put out a chart in 1984 and he categorized, practicate every type of track and field running workout you can do, how many meters you should do and so forth. And it was cutting edge and it was like the cornerstone of coaching education for years and years and years. And finally in our program we had to abandon that chart not because it was bad but back on that chart was formed you could run 44/2 and win that girls relay at NCAA championships in Division 1 whereas now you have to run 42/4 to do it and just about every good coach was operating in volume ranges that were below the chart was at that point. It was a cutting edge thing that really helped us and brought us along as a coaching culture in a very positive direction and the times come for another push because of what people are doing and some of the spectacular things that they're doing on the track now. Yeah, as the bar gets raised and the intensity gets raised, it definitely can change your thought process on how you could get there especially with the shorter spread. Yeah, if girls are now to win a medal you've got to run 48 in the quarter for a female like training at 52 pays got us by pretty good back in the 90s you know but it's just not going to do it anymore and the volumes are too high you're just not going to be able to train at 48 pays. Yeah, I think it's always important to say with tempo like yeah there's different types of tempo programs like when I I know my sweet spot for me was we would run like 7200 6 or 7200s and then 4 to 5 300s so those are two separate workouts and I always kept it the true 65 or so percent. I'm just going to bounce and that was my jam but anything more than that anything faster than that just crushed me like it everything started to go downhill and I remember my freshman year of college my first year not playing basketball it was a lot of tempo more lactate driven tempo and I remember going to dunk one day and if this is high school easy mind doing me to barely warm up you know I'm going to get both of my wrists a few inches over the rim and I miss like seven or eight dunks before I could finally make one after all this stuff and it's just really made me appreciate that line and the funny thing is is how much tempo I was doing that first year pales to what some programs do I've seen I've seen athletes do workout quarter my last day work I was like 16 200s and I'm just thinking myself okay like large diminishing returns what makes nine better than eight what makes 10 better than not you know like how much more are we getting out of this next one so really pretty sad but you know you mentioned trolley Francis earlier but you know remember trolley Francis was a big proponent of polarized training like trolley Francis was a big anti intensive temple person he felt that it was very it was tough it was hard it would it would fatigue you severely but it wasn't fast enough to genuinely help you sprinting so then you had something in your program that was fatigue but not helpful it needed to go so you know so he was kind of an advocate of slower temple and really fast stuff and he kind of felt that the middle ground was not a good idea and I believe very strongly in applying the principles of polarized training to everything I do whether it's run training weight training a plyometric training or even even technical training to some extent yeah with a volleyball team what would your temple workout for them like obviously not 16 200s no no no the most I've ever do in a temple session is 12 hundred meters that's the most I got to do and I keep and like for the typical introductory extensive stuff I keep the run short as well you know so I like to do hundreds or one to one is or something like that depending on the population I might drive down to eighties I never go longer than 200 with anyone and you know the the because I want it to be even though it's temple work I still want it to be a little bit of a page you know I don't want I don't want something that's so slow that is not going to translate or develop any type of I want to make sure that I'm always in some type of lactate based someone remember lactate drives restoration through a lot of the endocrine responses you know I've gotten into arguments with NFL strength coaches well not they're not really arguments but their discussions and they they tell me how they do aerobic stuff for speed power athletes and it's tremendously helpful for recovery standpoint and I'm looking at I'm like really and yeah it works really okay so but then I go to the camp and I watch the guys and they're running 120 yard temples and after the third one everybody shuts up nobody talks anymore and after the fourth or fifth one everybody's bending over and the answer is it's not aerobic it's lactate based you know that we use a term aerobic loosely but it really is an aerobic it's lactate and whatever and now it makes perfect sense to me why this stuff is work is because it's all lactate driven so again that's why you're 65% I think you mentioned that you know you did personally that's why that's kind of like my like minimum standard you know kind of around 70-ish percent or whatever is about the slowest I'll let them go because I always want to be producing at least a little lactate yeah yeah for me I probably ended up going yeah touching into that 70% range for sure on those but I always remember just leaving just being really mindful to leave it in the tank for the the next day and that sprint day the next day but funny enough doing running that way and just slowly just those slow and criminal gains week to week type principle I mean I was blowing away my like world like 300 times or whatever to like when I did decide to go there's one workout where it runs like we're gonna start running these you know those workouts are someone just decides to start running faster and then all right like I guess all right I guess this is what we're doing today with team sport and tempo it is interesting and I'm glad you mentioned the distance just because I feel tempo for team sport is often a lot more shuffly than track and field in terms of movement quality so having in that shorter and probably even a little faster is probably a good thing for those athletes because I was gonna just be a jog a glorified jog built treated as that longer is always more risky and running mechanics always get better with higher velocities yeah yeah do you do anything with so with some of the longer sprints you you talk with the scramble circuits like 10 yards or 20 or do you do anything that's like a tempo like a longer maybe it's 80 to 100 do two but with but superset that like circuit that with other things oh no I don't my scramble circuits are pure power and only interested in lactate I'm not looking for lots of right left right left repetitions in those circuits so that's why it's 100% is get up off your off out of the exercise sprint as quickly as you can but we're only going 10 meters and we're walking right back got it and those those would go those those scramble circuit 10 meter but fast with those going a low-dates because you're never getting up to that high of velocity and it's general work yeah it's the amount of tissue low that the athletes experience by limiting the distance of the sprint correct got it that's where yeah I I think that's for those things where back to the Charlie Francis and you can only do this on this day and this but I think about back to my team sport experience where I was doing these short like change of directions all the time and still did pretty well I think if my if our coach had us run fly 30s every day I would have blown up because it was that short in the turnaround I could recover better and yeah I think that's where those it is I've been watching swim coaches too being around swim training I noticed a lot of times on those even their low days they like to finish with just to touch a speed like something a tire of velocity and I've really come to appreciate those low days sprinkling things that are more explosive in there but ultimately you know you're not going up to 30 meters and really turn it over the wheels it's recoverable it's it's low gear enough that there's more movement options here and it's event specific or sports specific is what they're doing to you know everybody every sport every racing sport you kick at the end so that's not a bad technical model yeah a few more I have a few weight room questions for you boo and I also asked some people online with the questions they had for you so hopefully I've time for a few of those here the weight room question I had for you and I had to kind of rack my brain a little bit because I was thinking have I asked you this yet I don't I did I ask you this the first podcast we did but thoughts on super maximally centrics so overload like your weight releases the weight bar weighs more on the way down then the way up that kind of training what's your take on that method um I actually with high level athletes do a little bit of like bar catchers where they kind of fall into the bar and then have to like so I'm fine with that to some to some extent and there's certain blocks and training with the elites that I do something that's pretty similar and I it's not a slow descent it's like a drop and then a re-kept so to speak because I want that instantaneous super high load but but if you don't mind let me regress a little bit with your question like I'm a firm believer in a strength profile mean in that you know you have your maximal or your slow forms of strength you have your explosive strength and you have your reactive types of strength And I just generally think that we overvalue maximal strength in many situations. And I kind of look at this and the way I do it with those catches. I look at it as more specific, but as far as the slower forms of super maxi-centric, so whatever, to me, they're just another form or another part of the whole max strength puzzle, so to speak, you know, and it just disappoints me that in the performance coaching world of the Strength and Conditioning Profession, Strength and Conditioning Profession, that we just continually are devising more and more ways to improve maximal strength in diverse manners. All of them being very effective, but when maximal strength is not that important in so many sports, you know, you can go to the Olympic Games Track Mead and Wave of Magic One, everybody's squat goes up 50 pounds, nobody runs better. Because ultimately, that's not a form of strength, that's ultra-specific there. And I just wish as a culture that we were driven to be as sophisticated in our approaches to power development and speed development and acceleration development as we are there. So to answer your question, you know, if I do some basic, you know, max strength training and I get to a point where I need to progress further and I'm looking for a way to diversify it and change the adaptation, the stimulus to produce a more different type of adaptation, that's perfectly fine. But once again, let's not sell it as a magic bullet and let's not again overvalue the whole max strength piece period. You know, I just remember early in my coaching career, you know, when, you know, I started off as a muscle-head guy, I was a football coach for a long, long time and I was Mr. squat because that what we were supposed to do. And I just started realizing that once guys got to a level where they could squat so many pounds, increasing the squat beyond that, typically they got slower and they were less explosive. They kind of lost, they lost touch with the explosive side, with the elastic side as a result of that. And that's why I'm a firm believer in a strength profile, you know, it's just my personal observation that if like a deep sub-maxible, you know, a sub-parallel squat, you get below above like 2.2 times body weight, nothing really gets better after that point. So why are we continually just trying to come up with new ways to drive that? It's, it just takes things out of balance. You know, I was working with the pro football team that that long ago. And I was talking to one of the coaches and they were asking, we don't understand this, but like we got guys on our defensive line who can squat 700 pounds, like why, why are we still getting blown off the ball? You know, and I was bringing up the point of a strength profile. You know, if you're, you know, if it takes you a full second to get up to maximum power output and you're engaging the person across the line in half third of a second, it doesn't matter how strong you are. Or if your ability to amortize is poor, you know, some people can get hit and they can absorb and they can move off and stay functional. Some people get hit and they're like a bowling pin. You know, and I was trying to point out how the strength profile is ultimately more important than the, the, the numbers in any one particular area. So bringing it back to your original question, I do some things at times that are very, very similar, but I'm just hoping that this is not like the magic bullet that's going to revolutionize training and all of that because it's not, you know. Yeah, we're falling on it more or less. And I also find this is much easier to implement when working with online clients. It's not necessarily, you know, someone who's working out by themselves and they, hey, let's get yourself some weight releases, find two people to take away off the plate of bread. I find just doing simple stuff. And I think I got this idea from Angus Ross of just like a basic two up one down, like on a machine or something like that, like a leg curl two up one down, things that are more local than global. That's where my like happy medium is versus yeah. If I can get someone stronger, they're being good at the speed and power and movement and then strengthen altogether, then that's great. And I just remember as well being seeing my weight room numbers go up tremendously because my plios were getting really good. And because I was getting faster and those to am I throws, like even going on doing shot throws for dip max, backwards shot for distance over like all that stuff was getting better. And I felt like that was also helping push my weight room versus just trying to guess you could say drag it up by going in the way you're and trying to drag everything else with you type, type mentality. No, you're totally right. You know, Fassy Centrius produce more tissue load than anything else you do. And you really can't do Fassy Centrius into weight room. So we've been kind of sold to build a good, you know, all our lives have been told, you get stronger, you get faster, speed drop stress as well. And maybe even more so. Yeah. Yeah. One of these days, I haven't tried one of those 1080 quantum's like the machine one that does it for you. I feel like if I was like just the having the ease of that, like it's easier, you're stable, you're locked in and I don't know, I want to try one day, but yeah, it's an interesting, there's so many ways to, there's so many modes out there. And I think that's again, one of the reasons I wanted to ask you about just the general strength and the movement piece because I think maybe a way of thinking about it is like, okay, like there's those methods, but did you do this first? Did you try to get strength through your, did the playoffs help make you stronger? Have you noticed that? And, and just are you moving well? Is your, your balance and proper, accept, proper, perception good enough? And I'll, and your capacity to recover. I think it, yeah, it's a wide ranging equation and that's part of what makes it fun too. Would recipe, yeah, the recipe for strength is neural stimulation and tissue load, you know. I had a guy one time, I coach, he was a thrower. I squatted him unmercifully every Monday for a while and then I took the squats off for eight weeks, two months and then I put them back in and my volunteer assistant coach was looking at the paper and freaking out like we can't squat at 95% because we haven't squatted in two months and I'm like, no, he'll be fine. And sure enough, he was perfectly fine. You know, see what he didn't understand at that point in his career that we were doing all the sprint stuff, the playoffs stuff, the Olympic stuff, we had neural stimulation, the playoffs stuff and the sprint stuff were producing really high levels of tissue load. Again, if you have neural stimulation and tissue load, there's no reason to think that you haven't produced strength or maintained strength or whatever, you know. Yeah. I have a few listener questions here for you and I want to make sure I get to these and I actually am in a merge with a question I had for you. And so someone asked you to take on our deals and hamstring injury prevention and I want to lump that in with the controversial Nordic hamstring exercise. So just your take on different common exercises in the gym be it RDL, Nordic, a leg girl. Where do you sit with those in terms of what's healthy for hamstrings and development there? To be, well, first of all, RDLs and Nordics and those types of things, everyone's in a while I'll have one of those types of exercises in a circuit somewhere. So we'll kind of touch that stuff very, very little, you know, as part of a circuit training kind of format. But I don't like to invest significant amounts of weight room time and effort in those exercises because as far as preventing the hamstring injuries, they just are totally ineffective. They just don't work. You know, if you know, if I could have you do weights every single day and then if I take you on sprint, you're going to get sore. That's because the level of tissue load that you achieve in a sprint is significantly higher than anything you're going to achieve in the weight room. So what you're doing is you're operating in something that's either concentric or maybe very slow eccentric, whereas the highest levels of tissue loads are in your fasty centuries like your plials and your sprinting stuff. So these exercises fail miserably when it comes to hamstring injury prevention. And in fact, my personal observations, no research, but my personal observations, is that they become more apt for ACL because you're fatiguing some key stabilizers in the area of the knee as well. And then what typically happens is in a lot of programs, you get a hamstring injury or two and oh wow, we must be weak in the hamstrings. No, you're not. Those kids would be in the sport if you were weak in the hamstring. What happened, you know, the hamstring injuries happened because biomechanical forces from above or below are just improperly transmitted. It's a biomechanical issue is what it ultimately is. But we assume it's stress. So we start nuking kids with these exercises. What happens next is their fatigue now in that area. And we just like diffuse on it. And sometimes it gets a lot worse. I've seen one or two hamstrings erupt into major epidemics because of the implementation of high dosages of RDLs and Nordics and those types of things for that reason. So people ask me, well, but what do you do for hamstring strength or prevent hamstring injuries? I haven't had a hamstring injury. I'm string injury in my personal coaching group in 35 years. And there's three reasons why. Number one, I know how to teach the mechanics. Number two, I value mobility more than I value maximum strength. And number three, most importantly, I sprint them all the time. Well, what exercise do you do? Didn't you listen to me? I sprint them all the time. Meaning that is my hamstring prevention. I have to train the hamstring with fatty centrikes in order to produce the levels of tissue lows that are generally going to protect it. If I'm doing something that doesn't do that, I'm wasting my time. Now that's not to say that I don't do hamstring work in the weight room. But my hamstring work is called squatting or lunging or step ups or whatever the case may be. Meaning that I maintain hamstring training through entire chains, using the entire kinetic chain in that scenario. You know, I had a trainer one time told me, we had a kid run, like, I saw a kid run 10 flat in the 100 meter semifinal pulled a hamstring in the file. And the trainer had the nerve to tell me, well, that kid's hamstring must be weak. Well, if the kid's hamstring was weak, how the hell did he run 10 flat in the semifinal? You know, we just have to get out of this mentality that every injury is driven by a strength deficit. It's not. It's mobility issues and improper force transmission through those kinetic chains. Yeah. I think, yeah, there's a lot of differing opinions on the Nordics. A lot of different implementations too. I'm sure there's coaches who, and I, in my use to them, I was always mindful of very low doses and usually assisted, like, not versus like, hey, we're going to do four sets of five if people like, fallen after their like, 10 degrees down type thing. I think there's different ways to do all those things. I think I'll throw one of them into a circuit every once in a while, yeah. But like to say that this is going to, we have to invest mass amounts of time in use. And we're going to produce this benefit. This totally false. Yeah, maybe in some ways. I've seen it. Something right, maybe it's almost back to what you said at the beginning of the generalism mentality is if we treat one exercise, be it an Arctic or an RDL or something like, hey, we do this exercise so we don't get hurt versus a more generalist perspective of, hey, we try to make sure we run well, we manage our volumes of work well, we try to hit and have x velocity, we don't overdo things. And we also have a multilateral movement emphasis, like we try to move in different directions and maintain mobility in different directions. To me, that's a little bit more general, a little more broad-ranging than, okay, we just do this one thing. Do you, I mean, do you feel like maybe I wonder if that is that maybe more like, when people talk about Nordic or debate Nordics? Because I see it, maybe that's more the debate, just because I think Nordics can be done well in my opinion. I've, I like them when they're done well, but it's, maybe, maybe it's a little bit more that, I don't know, like I was just, yeah, I think about. You want to talk about it? I think about it. I think about it. Remember this handbeals, you know, injury prevention is always specific to tissue load, okay? So if you do Nordics to prevent injuries while you do Nordics, that makes sense, but it doesn't make sense to do Nordics to prevent high-speed sprinting injuries is what I'm saying. And if you want them to be a part of your program because of some other value that you find, go for it. But I'm just saying, this is the point I'm making, is that Nordics and those types of exercises fail on a regular basis because they do not come anywhere close to the levels of tissue load that a hamstring receives in an actual sprint. The only thing they have in common is they're both hamstring stressors, but this types of stresses are wildly different. I just want to be perfectly clear and that that's what I'm ultimately saying. Yeah. One thing, I think a lot of the hamstrings, and this back to your point with the 10th second athlete who, oh, he has weak hamstrings, I would hear this all the time with sports medicine, someone's injured and the sports medicine person's like, well, they have weak glutes. Making of myself, that kid squatted like 275 the other day. I don't know. Nothing, that's like the house, but I'm like, you know, you can't be that weak and do some, I mean, it just seems like there's always these, these, like, hey, it's just one thing. You want to reduce things to one thing versus taking maybe a more generalist approach. And I was in, my kids were in some lessons, like three, four weeks ago. And I had a busy day, so I didn't get to train. So I'm like in the pool, like, kind of playing around with the baby, you know, my baby, who's like 19 months. But in between, I didn't get to work. I didn't some like, mess around with like different hamstring exercises in the pool. And I'm doing, so like, it's interesting if you do, you know, those hamstring tantrum things, like where you just kind of like, like into the band. I maybe I'll ask you about that one too, but I was alternating doing kind of like a bee skip or a cycle. You're like, just a leg cycle, like you're sprinting. And if you do that in the water, you don't really feel any tension in your hamstring per se. You feel it working, but it's not like real tension. But if you take your shin or your foot in front of you, you twitch it up and down like a late swing phase. And that shin is twitching back and forth with the knee in front of you. You feel your hamstring like tense, like, but it makes you realize when you do the difference between that, like a nice cycle versus a rapid fire foot shaking in front. You feel just how much tension could land in the hamstring if the timing was off is what I'm trying to say. And as I'm doing it, I'm like, no, if you have really bad timing, you can be really strong and it could still end pretty poorly for you. And it might just be almost, might be a bigger block. I don't know. But that's where I like the what, but coincidentally, funny. I had a little, my left hamstring had been a little bit sore before that day and I actually felt really freaking good the next day, just exploring and playing in the water. I was like, oh man, like this is, this is awesome. So all that to say is I was just, that reminded me just of important timing is. Yeah. And, you know, so the whole sequencing thing is a big piece of it. You mentioned glutes or weaker, whatever. I have no doubt that when that trainer or that therapist said that, that one that athlete was on that table and they were testing, I'm no doubt that they did test weak. But the reason why they test weak is because they are at a point of the cannibal disadvantage because of misalignments or they're nearly inhibited or something along those lines. You know, so they're not weak because they aren't being exercises and nukinum with exercise is not going to help anything, you know. And then if you got an athlete who's already training at a real high level, a lot of the rehab exercises that you're going to do are below the level of what they're doing in their normal training. So how is that going to help? You know, if I'm picking up 100 pounds every day with a coach and I'd lift 10 pounds with the trainer, explain to me how the 10 pounds is going to help. It's bottom line is that it won't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just such a different story and I find to like muscle testing a therapist can do anything to make a muscle test weak a lot of time subconsciously if they really want to. So another listener who asked about sprint float sprint prescriptions, how do you progress those in your training with athletes? Like where do you start and then ultimately what's like the levels you get to as an athlete improves? I don't progress when I feel like an athlete is ready for sprint, sprint float sprint just to be clear as a development tool for maximal velocity. I don't progress that what I do is when an athlete I feel is adequate prepared for them. They've done enough acceleration development where I've accomplished enough tissue load to make them safe. Then I write an individual prescription for that athlete as far as like what the course is going to look like. I want to always when I set these sprint floats up, I want to have about a one second window of maximal velocity in the first sprint segment and a two second window in the second sprint segment. So I write that I figure that out and I put those cones out and we do it. And ultimately I don't change because those are the parameters for that particular athlete. The only thing that might change is if an athlete gets stronger more powerful and as a result the point at which they achieve maximal velocity moves in their sprint, then I might need to lengthen cones and move cones around or something like that. But I really don't progress. Like it's something that we do as an exercise and I really don't vary it per se. It's just something that we invest time in and we value further repetition. If there's any progression, the progression isn't the fact that athletes are just not, they get better at it. Sometimes you might write a workout and the workout is the same for three consecutive weeks. That doesn't mean there isn't progression. The first time the athlete did it, they didn't do it perfect. The second time they did it, they did it better. The third time they probably got better still. So that's the progression. The progression is just improved performance within the context of what we're doing, not necessarily anything that changes on the workout paper from week to week to week. Got it. Do you have any preference or thoughts on sprint versus flying 10s, 20s, 30s? That's how you get right up. for your complex. Yeah, they're more complex. I had a Sprink Coach called me one time and he says, boo! We're doing your Sprint Spirit Flots. Sprint stuff. And they look great in the first Sprint segment. They look great in the float segment. But in the second Sprint segment, they have an apartheid getting their mechanics back together. And my answer was that's why you do it. You do it because it's challenging to them to some extent. When it comes to fly work, it's not hard to get to max velocity and keep your you know what together for an extra 15 or 20 meters or something like that. But in the Sprint Float Sprint, that's challenging. Now, don't get me wrong. If a person is not a Sprint person or a Sprint proficient person, fly work is much, much safer. So if I got the defensive tackle on the football team, I'm not doing the Sprint Float Sprint. So I'm going to do the fly stuff appropriately, individualized, distance wise. But my point is, is for Sprint proficient people, it's a more challenging conch-crout. And therefore you get more on. Yeah. It kind of makes me think even to the Maxi-centric strength type idea, it says if the instinct is just to skip right to whatever the highest is, just like the Super Max or the Max toe speed. There's a lot of coordination that could be filled in along the way. And part of that is, yeah, like you said, that Sprint Float Sprint, there's the coordination interrupting the rhythm and then getting it back. And I love that stuff. Like for me personally, I love Sprint Float Sprints and I find I'm almost a faster, if you time my second segment, it's almost faster than a fly or it could be faster than a fly because there's just something. Maybe it's just off my core. Maybe you should. Yeah. And the ancient that goes on too, yeah. Yeah, I agree. So do you do like a build and then there's zone one, that's one second, then a float, then zone two, that's two seconds, that type thing. What I do is, let's assume that I have an athlete who is, let's say they reach Max velocity at the 40 meter. What I'll do is I'll put my first column at 50. So they're accelerating maximally. They reach their maximum velocity. And from 40 to 50, they're as fast as they can possibly be. That's about one second. And then I'll put the float zone in and typically the second Sprint zone is about 20 meters because that's what will allow me to give you two seconds. Okay. All right. Good stuff. Okay. So last question from the listeners here, Boo. Was there a like a memorable like back when you're in your experimentation days and putting together your systems? Was there any memorable mistakes you made like all I tried this and it totally didn't work tight that you it was the biggest one of those. That's why when I argue this stuff with some coaches like, I don't argue if I'm not sure, Joel. I mean, I think you know that. And sometimes when I'll argue some of these points and such, I just tell them, look, it's not like I didn't do it your way. Like practically all of the things that I've been passionate about here today, I didn't figure it out because I'm smart. I figured it out because I failed to be honest with you. You know, and not not patting my back, but sometimes people talk to me and say, oh, you're pretty humble for a coach who's done a lot. And my answer is, yeah, if you fail as much as I have, you're not going to be very conceded or very cocky to be honest with you. You know, I came from football with a muscle head philosophy, did not understand speed at all. It was all about squatting and vomit, you know, and it took a while for me to understand and I think the thing that really helped me was I was always truly honest in my own self-evaluation, so to speak. But my God, that list is so long, I can't even get into it to be honest with you. Circuit training, yeah, I'm good at it now, but I wrote so many garbage circuits back in the early days where kids, it looked like death marches and things of that nature, you know. And then, you know, there were times, you know, when I just realized that you can't be hard headed about things ultimately. And sometimes, you know, frankly, some of the things I learned, you know, I had kids who like I was coaching in the high school level and some of them would quit the team because it was all too hard. And then I realized when I didn't do the stuff that made them quit, that athletes that stayed actually got better. You know, and I was just honest in my self-evaluation. So I'm going to defer that question just because there's so many. So many. Yeah, it's a totally every position I have. Yeah, practically every position I have comes from something I feel that at some point in time. Yeah, I was thinking about that question, like it's a good one. So tell me what a spring any right at the end of the podcast. Tell me your biggest mistake. You know, I would love to see if you have those old circuits written down somewhere, I'm sure people would get a kick out of it. They're like watching. Next time I'm going to rub you a bit while I'm thinking it is. Next time I have you back, I'll have my top 10 all-time screw ups, Bob Boo, and I'll rank them after I had an hour to think a bit, okay? Yeah, so I've just got a little bit ahead of time on that one. So, well, thank you so much, but we had some other listener questions. Those are the main three I wanted to cover outside Ben Simon's also was going to ask about the general strength. I was like, you're on the same brainwave with me, Ben. I think that general strength piece is just, I think it's just so important that movement. So, you know, I wish they sold DVDs. I mean, if people are interested, I was going to say that what's the title of that DVD with the inventory, the movement inventory? I have one called exercises for sports performance. It might be that one. I also have one about designing, training, and so forth. Not the plug, but I don't do DVDs anymore. There's a company called Ascent, ASEMT, Ascent Track and Field Clinics, and they are basically doing all that stuff now, and they have all those products. So, if anybody is interested, it's a fantastic company. They do a lot of other good things for a lot of other good coaches as well. That would be a nice place to look if you're interested in some of those materials. Yeah, awesome. Well, hey, that's, yeah, anyone listening? Check that out. It's a great DVD. It's sad that we're past that dinosaur age of DVDs, but it's definitely a, it's a, it's a treasure in my library. So, thank you so much, Boo. It was wonderful talking to you again. I always enjoy talking to you. So, thanks for the conversation. Thank you, Paul Adraaz. I got a little long-winded a few times and maybe didn't get to everything, but I always enjoy talking to you. It's always nice to catch you now. Looking forward to next time, all right.