BONUS: Kyle Gordon Interview

There is kind of a feeling of not possessiveness, but more like pride in like, oh, this person that we connected on TikTok many years ago and then how cool to see them, like you have sort of an investment in it. It's like, yeah, yeah, win, keep winning. - Thanks, thank you, thank you. It's like finding a cool band right at the beginning, but like, waste, stupider. - Totally. (laughing) What's up, Patron subscribers? - Welcome to the show formerly known as Diallo and Luxury talk about music. We are now officially the one song Patreon. - That's right, and today we're joined by musician, comedian and content creator Kyle Gordon. Kyle's third album, Kyle Gordon is everywhere as dropping October 2nd. He's kicking off a national tour in late September. You may have already heard the first single of the album, Mr. Jombo, if you haven't, stop what you're doing, just listen to it, and then come right back. This song absolutely blew up on YouTube and TikTok and all over the place earlier this year. In case you wanna hear just a little bit of it though, here's a clip. ♪ Couldn't even understand a word ♪ ♪ What I knew his meaning was ♪ ♪ Would I decide it? ♪ ♪ I had heard ♪ ♪ He said the love you say ♪ ♪ Say Trump, it's damn old ♪ ♪ Not even up, not up, not up ♪ ♪ Of the songs of the world ♪ - We had an incredible conversation with Kyle about that really thin line between music and comedy. It's so subtle, it's so nuanced. And Kyle's got it dialed in. He's a scientist of the blend, of the overlap there. So we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about his time filming in South Africa, parodying Paul Simon, and so much more. - That's right. So stick around, we're gonna break it down. With Kyle Gordon, here on The One Song Patriot. Thank you, Kyle, for coming on the show. You started out in New York City in 2014. What was the comedy scene like then? And where were you performing? 'Cause I was still a writer on a, I had just left New York. I had been a writer on "Family for Years" "The Tonight Show." And I kind of remembered like everything sort of being centered around UCB. I think they were still on 22nd, around that area at the time. But tell us about what was going on with you. Where were you performing, what were you doing? - Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And it's, yeah, it was an interesting time looking back 'cause I moved to the city and was sort of figuring things out. I knew I wanted to do improv because as I've continued in my career, I hate being myself on stage or off stage. So I knew I wanted to be in character and I felt more drawn to improv than stand-up. So I don't have a ton to say about necessarily like the stand-up scene back then. I eventually kind of found like a sort of a Brooklyn alty world where I would do my like characters and sort of an early version of what I'm doing now. Where like I get up with a guitar and be in character and kind of do these genre parodies. But like very. - I do that, you're probably, you're probably that a Bedford, probably like Bedford Avenue scene in Brooklyn. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. - I mean, Williamsburg would be cool back then. Yeah. - Yeah, or it was like, but it was also this weird cresting time in 2014 where I'm especially with UCB. I think that was still the nexus and I got to see a bunch of really cool shows at the old space under the grocery store. - Yeah. - Which was really cool, but yeah, so I was doing stuff there. I was doing stuff at the magnet theater, which was a few blocks away. - Remember the magnet? - Yeah, so there's still there. So yeah, a lot of, it was a cool, interesting time, but yeah, I definitely got my start in the improv world. I love it, I love it, by the way, you're not alone. Stand up, stand up, makes no sense to me. Even when I get asked to do the monologue for a Harold, I'm still just sort of like, why am I talking? Why are words coming out of my mouth? Why are people staring at me? Like it's just weird in ways of like having an interaction. It's just not weird. - Yeah, did you, did you do UCB too? - I did UCB out here. I did UCB out here for a long time and then sort of my first TV, my first big TV job was in New York, so I moved my self out there and started writing on "Fallon" for, like I said, many, many years. And I think that when we did take in comedy that wasn't written in our room, it was usually a UCB. Like I was like 80 miles on our show and stuff, so we were down there a lot. But then, you know, it's everybody moved back out here. I feel like at some point everybody was back on the West Coast, so it just kind of like flip-flops. - Totally, and we sort of ships in the night because my good friend, Brooks Allison, who I've worked with a bunch on a lot of music, he's a writer on the show now. And yeah, so that's pretty dope, that's really cool. - Yeah, we're gonna talk a lot about this nexus or the interchange between music and comedy, including importantly, the like famous adage about, you know, musicians want to be comedians, comedians want to be musicians. We're all three of us, some blend of all of that in our minds at least. I'm probably the least comedian, not even close to, you know. You guys are more musician than I am comedian, put it that way. But my, I guess my first question is at what point did you start to gravitate towards that being, you know, maybe the center of maybe your characters or your act or whatever it ended up being? - Yeah, pretty early on, kind of like how I was saying is, so I started off doing improv and I loved that. That was like my first entry into comedy was improv, and I wish I could do more of it now, honestly. But, but I pretty quickly realized that, you know, it's fun being in an ensemble, but I wanted to have an additional outlet where I could sort of have a solo comedic expression, but I didn't do stand up, I didn't wanna do stand up. So I kind of developed this musical, I mean, music, I was saying this is some of the other day, like I don't have any hobbies anymore because I've just incorporated them all into like the stuff I do. So like my biggest love and passion outside of comedy was music and nerding out about music and writing songs. So I just incorporated that into my act, sort of combining the characters and the music. So yeah, it was pretty early on. So I would wanna say maybe like, if I moved to New York in 2014, this would have been probably like around 2015, 2016, I started doing this solo kind of just me in a guitar genre parody thing. Why did you decide to have it be, the framing being comedy within which there is music, rather than music within which maybe there's some comedy? Yeah, and I've thought a lot about this over the years, I wouldn't have been able to like articulate it really back then, but as I've sort of developed and, you know, or tried to develop my own voice and style, I've kind of retroactively thought about what I was doing. Well, first, I would say first, I'm a comedian first, and I love music and writing music, and I would say they've started to even out in terms of how I think of myself, but it's taken a long time, and I still do consider myself a comedian before I would say I'm a musician. But with that in mind, you know, kind of the way I thought about it is, I think there can be a stigma around musical comedy, right? Like if you go to see a comedy show and there's five acts on the lineup, and then someone gets up there with a guitar, I think it's understandable that a lot of people will be like, "Oh, here we go." All right, thank you. - Right. - And so, and I understood that because I think the reason for that is like, when musical comedy doesn't work, I find that often what's happening is, this feels like a half-baked stand-up bit that they assume, if I said it to music, they won't realize that this is really not that good of a joke. - Like props, comics, or something like that? - Like using props? - Exactly. Yeah, right, exactly. And like, that's to say, you know, there's a lot of great musical comedy, obviously. There are great prop comics, like just because someone is bringing, I think sometimes the stigma can be too harsh, just because someone has more to their act than just stand up, doesn't mean it's inherently not great. I just think when it doesn't work, this is what I found is usually happening. So when I want, I was trying to avoid that, and so I kind of thought, if I'm gonna bring a guitar up there, and incorporate music into the comedy, it has to be necessary. Like, I want to write songs or comedy that, with, if it didn't have the music, it wouldn't make sense. Like, needs the music in order for it to exist. And so, the genre parody thing kind of came out of that in the sense of like, none of my songs would be, the comedy requires the music and the music kind of requires the comedy. I'd like to think when it works. - Okay, it sounds like, and just to like put a button on that, just because that's such an interesting question, where the lines are drawn, it could have been the case that you decided to go out there as a musician, you could have just reversed the roles and had the quote, other hobby be more central, but it sounds like what you're saying is, comedy was just where your brain was at. That was just the central focus of what you wanted to do. was be funny totally yeah yeah totally totally yeah I was and still am, you know, like a comedian first and began to incorporate music more and more into it. So yeah, that's a good point. I always did start with the comedy. - I wanna dive actually, before we put a button, I wanna dive more into this because this kind of gets to the heart of every bit of music that I've ever been a part of, which is that. It's always been for the original music for my TV shows. And I'll admit, like, I've come at the creation of the songs, a lot of times it's like, I'll go to the room, I'll be like, you guys, let's do a dance hall song. Like, let's do a Jamaican, like, you know, Shabbar rank style, like, song. And then we come up, and then we're like, well, what are our comedy ideas? Let's graph that onto reggae or something like that. And eventually, you know, like, I think that, and then we ended up doing a song called "Woop-Dee Kids," which was, our treatise on, like, old-school parenting. But we did it to the sound of, like, you know, "Vinimon," and that kind of music. And I think that it's interesting that the more music we did, the easier it was sometimes for the comedy to fall away. And I think it goes to the fact that, like, you know, the music, kind of, which do you really want to do? Like, do you really want to do music? Well, then the comedy sometimes becomes, not an afterthought, but you think of it as second. And I think sometimes I love what you said about. There are comedic songs out there where you're like, okay, this guy had a stand-up routine, and he thinks it'll do better if he sings it, you know what I mean? And I've never really been impressed by that, because I like this stuff. To me, Lazy Sunday worked because it was a song that was good enough to play in the club. You know, to me, the music has to be good. It can't be like, if you come at the music purely second, and it's like a distant second, then it's just, it just sounds silly and I can't take it seriously. I think that, one of the things we're going to talk to when we talk about "Plan of the Basis," this idea of, and I love it. This idea, the parody is stuff that you love and satire is stuff that you hate. You know, like, I think that that's so true, because most of the time when we're working, even the songs that Blake and I've worked on together, we're coming from a place of parody. We're usually doing something in a genre that we love. And I would suspect that even with Paul Simon, you probably do like the music. You just sort of recognize something, you know, that's not aged well in the optics. Totally, totally. And I think that probably is a, and I've, you know, I've thought about it, but not been able to put my finger on it. That's probably the closest I've gotten is the parody being something you love and satire being something you hate. And yeah, I'd say generally with my stuff, there's no hard and fast rule, you know. Obviously, some of the things, I don't only parody things I love and I obviously don't only satirize things I hate, you know, I try to find something in the middle. But with, yeah, with Paul Simon specifically, that's, yeah, I keep saying like, both things can be true or many things can be true at the same time. I do. Totally unambiguously, unironically, love Graceland. Like I still, top to bottom, love listening to that album. And also, it contains, it contains in the music and obviously in the lore around the creation of the album. Yeah, and optics, like all of that, like there are absolutely elements of that album that are worthy of-- Cute chuckles, cute chuckles. Yeah, yeah, they're funny, it's just funny. No, that's great. I was just sending a clip to the dates of the guys. My favorite line is it just came on my feed this morning as because obviously Tiktok knew we were going to talk. Of course. I couldn't even understand a word, but I knew his meaning was what I had decided I had heard. That's such a great line. And you put the social critique right in there in plain sight in the lyric. And of course, in the present, like everything about the video, it's hard to miss any part of the Mr. John Boe song and video that you're not wonderfully, simultaneously, loving, you're parodying and satirizing. Like an equal amount's almost. I think the message is clear, especially anyone who understands the lore to your point. That Paul Simon's music, that record, Graceland, is wonderful and also extraordinarily offensively appropriative. Like he did everything wrong. No musician got credit financially. I'm sure they got paid on the day. But what you hear musically underneath the lyrical and vocal bed is all done by local musicians who have gotten more of their due than they actually did. So I love how you really balance those two things to use Diallo's parody versus satire thing. This Mr. John Boe, you did both. And it felt like a little more of a breaking out. Were you feeling a little more political? A little more like, hey, I want to use this platform to be a little bit more like, hey, let's go a little deeper into the significance of what's going on here. Was that conscious or was it sort of spontaneous? I think looking back on it, I just knew it was-- it's not a song I would have even ever considered writing on my first album. I'll say that for many. Like it was-- I was definitely taking a much-- as soon as I knew I wanted to parody Graceland or that kind of sound or even that general approach, I just knew it would be a much, much bigger undertaking. And if I'm tackling all those elements that you were describing about Graceland, I just knew I was going to have to-- I was just-- I was just going to have to really do it right and really, really focus and put it-- I don't think I'd ever, in many ways, put as much effort and thought and care into anything as I did this. Because like, all right, fine, if you're going to do this, you have to-- again, like I said, I'm going to have to do it right. So I was like, I'm kind of really happy with how it turned out. And also that like, you know, I'm really glad that it-- like you were saying, like one of the biggest things. I was like, I want to make sure that people get it and get what I'm trying to say here. Because I don't want there to be any ambiguity as to what is the point of this song. The layers-- It makes sense that it sounds like what you're saying is it began with the song choice. And then you're like, wait a second. If I'm doing this song, I'm going to have to figure some stuff out how to present this. Because it is so layered, the original was already layered. And my take on the original is going to have 20, 26 eyes on it. And therefore, we're going to have to parse this a little bit more carefully than planned out of the base maybe, which was-- Exactly. The offense of this Eastern European DJs, we can handle that. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. It was like, the idea came about spontaneously. But once I started to write it and realize what I was doing, just like you were saying, I was like, OK, I got to sit down and really focus. And you went to South Africa? OK, tell us another one. I mean, this is a shot on location. Trust me, I'm always looking for the hills of Calabazas when people need Africa. Because you can do it. It can be pulled off. Been pulled off with anything, but this was authentic. Tell us about that. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, that's commitment is what it is. Commit me to the bit. Yeah. Yeah, and that was the other thing, too. I was like, I kind of realized early on. If I'm going to shoot a video for this, which I always wanted to do, because so much of it is the optics, both in how he created it. And I wanted to make this video. So I realized pretty early on. I was like, again, I can't shoot this in the Kardashian's backyard. I got to go to Africa and do it. And it was kind of the thing of, like, if Paul Simon could go and do it, I can't have acid. And I was like, I have to put sort of my money where my mouth is, really, like, if I'm going to do this. And also, part of what I'm parodying-- so I can talk a little bit about that in a sec. But the other thing is, I don't think I've ever done more research for a song. And my wife keeps saying, is you were studying for a test that no one was ever going to give you. But I just really, really just hunkered down. And I was like, if I'm going to parody the ignorance of maybe Paul Simon, but kind of this character of a generic American tourist seeking wisdom in Africa, I can't then be-- or as much as possible, I don't want to be guilty of the same things that there's an inherent ignorance that I'll always have, just being an American guy going there. But as much as possible, I tried to do as much research as I possibly could before I undertook this trip. And so, yeah, the trip, we shot in two locations. So we shot in South Africa. And so everything with animals and landscape, we shot in this game reserve. That was like an hour and a half north of Cape Town. And then everything with the choir and the Mr. John Boe character, we actually shot that in-- the country is called Eswatini. It was previously called Swaziland until like three years ago. change the name. So it's a tiny landlock country in the east of the country. Like it borders like Mozambique, but it's mostly surrounded by South Africa. So we went Cape Town and then we flew over and shot everything there. And kind of, you know, all of these things were like you were saying, like, and I could go into detail about every little choice we made. But where we shot it was, it's literally a, a, a preserved Swazi village for tourists. It's like, like a, like a, like a tourist, it's like a tourist thing to, mostly for European tourists to see, like what traditional life would have been like. And then we, we cast like a local choir, a local brass band. And then Mr. Jamba was just a, the guy who played him was just a friend of the producer who was retired. Which is crazy. Cause he's got great comedic timing, like because his eyes to like the, who's this guy. He's like man yelling at me. Uh, timing is great. I was just as excited. I would point out one, um, timing, I think is so important in music and in comedy and ways. And I think that's the sort of connective tissue between musicians and comedians. Like your timing's just gotta be good. But also, um, I've had friends, white friends, you know, like some of the other soccer dads and stuff who were like showing me their footage of like when they took their family to safari this summer. And I'm always like, oh yeah, wow, that looks, that's awesome. And like they're visiting places. And I'm just like, I wish the reverse was true. I wish like there was like all these African tourists who would go to like rural Missouri and like go to see how real Americans live. And they'd be like, oh, look at them. I just, I just, I want, I want the equivalent, whatever the, uh, foreign equivalent is to happen in America. Because when you go like Nigerian friends, go to logos, they're living like it's London. You know, there's like freaking amazing restaurants at the bottom of like 12 storey buildings. But like, yeah, a lot of people go to Africa and they visit the traditional village and talk about chiefs. Yeah, it's just projecting what you want. It's sort of like what I say in the song. It's like you like you want these people to be this image of what they are in your head. And there's almost a disappointment when you realize they're just regular people. And it's like, no, I wanted you to be a shaman. Like they see what you decided, they see what you, they see what they decided they wanted to see. Yeah, exactly. Brilliant line. Brilliant line. I love that. All right. Have you been on, have you been on genius to check your own songs, annotations, or is that a bridge too far? No, uh, I have. I haven't been recently. I know people were, were going, uh, Mr. Jambos specifically. Yeah. No, it's fine. I was just going to read a little clip from your line. So your chorus, he said, the love you seek. It's in the valley of the soul with, you know, Zulu, it misinterpreting, you know, you're getting it wrong. What the Zulu line is. Um, and a genius annotation is this type of racism is called orientalism where multiple cultures are assumed to be more homogenous through awful ignorance and various aspects of the culture are used interchangeably and innocuous things are mysticized or romanticized. I think that's, I love it. Like that's actually pretty dead on. Like your intent has been understood. Obviously because you made it easy. Yeah. No, no, no, I didn't. I would want to finish that. I thought only because I was halfway through what sounded like a backhand of compliment. You made it easy through all of the effort you put into it. To your wife's, you put in all of the hours you put in, got little nuances dialed in that made the balancing act successful because it could have gone sideways, right? Any step of the way, even including within South Africa itself during the shooting, not to say after. So kudos to you for putting in all the work to get this balancing act right and the end result is just a funny song. Like that's the good news. It's just plain funny. Thank you. Thank you. Vigorous nodding and snooze. Yeah. No, I thank you. I mean, I really like that was, yeah, that was the goal and I, yeah, I just recognized. And we all did like when we were going there, it was me. I had my friends, a producer and a director from that day that I've worked with on a bunch. So they the same team that are these two guys that produce and directed this one also produce and directed plan of the base and my emo song. And so I've been working with them forever and they know me and luckily trust me. And then also I made my brother come. So it's like people who, but like, I think we all recognized, like, this is a cool idea, a really fun idea if we can pull it off. But yeah, like, we kind of have to take it really seriously. And because we are walking this, it is a, it is a balancing act. As Paul Simon reached out to you or is anyone from the Simon camp? No, no, I actually, there's, yeah, no, I haven't heard anything from him. I would love to. I know he's touring right now. I wanted to go see him, but take us our expensive. It could happen. Like, I just some, some YouTuber or Tik Toker had done an analysis, it says incorrectly of, I think the chord changes on 50 ways to leave your lover. And apparently Paul Simon, like he showed an email screenshot of Paul Simon saying, hey, no, I actually fingered it this way. By the way, for non musicians, fingering a guitar is not what it sounds like. It's perfectly normal and safe. But he watches social media. So perhaps you will be getting an email from him as well. For better, for worse. Yeah. I kind of, I don't know. I kind of just put it in the back of my mind. I just kind of assumed, you know, he's an old guy, but maybe he's seen it. I don't know. I have no idea. I would be happy to talk to him. I am, I love, I love Paul Simon. I love that album. And I particularly like solo Paul Simon, like better than Simon and Garfunkel. So, um, which I'm sure everything I know about Paul Simon, I think he would like to hear that. I think you're right. And there's a, there's a 100% chance that he has been forwarded your song by 10,000 people. So it's just a matter of time. Let's put it out there. Paul, talk to Kyle. Kyle, talk to Paul. I would talk. Yeah. Yeah. I do it. Yeah. And also with, you know, kind of with what you were saying about the, um, the, uh, the genius lyrics. Um, yeah, I, I generally agree with that, um, interpretation because, yeah, I think it like, yeah, at its worst, it, that sort of posture from American tourists. And by the way, Africa happened to be where I decided to go for this song because I was living in the world of Graceland. We're playing with African musical tropes, um, you know, all of that. But I think the same applies when, you know, uh, ignorant American tourists goes to China or India or, you know, it's sort of a generic posture that they take where they have a preconceived, uh, idea of what these cultures are often misinformed. And it's, I guess it's a more benign form of, you know, it's not as bad as overt racism, but it is a form of racism in the spectrum. It's on the spectrum. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Because it's fundamentally like, at the end of the day, dehumanizing, if you're reducing someone to a, like a mystical trope that you caught it in your head, based on, you know, watching, uh, the gods must be crazy or something. I don't know. But like, yeah, the gods must be crazy. We should do a podcast just about the God's supposed to be crazy one day. But can I real quick? Probably you, Kyle, because we were talking earlier about the, um, the New York comedy scene in the early 2010s. Um, people forget that there was a lot of ironic racism being sold as comedy back then. And there was a lot of like edginess. We didn't have the term edge lord yet. But there was a lot of edginess being sold on Twitter, uh, because this was like, this is the hey name of everybody felt like they had to be funny on Twitter to get staffed in rooms and to get, you know, on certain shows like, I even remember running a room one time. And every time one guy would say something that we get a laugh in the room, I would look on Twitter that night and he had posted around that time that we had been talking in the room. So like, people were literally putting jokes from the writers room, just room bits, not like stuff for the show on Twitter. Um, I'm saying all this just to say props to you. I never liked ironic racism. I never thought that, you know, like, oh, it's, it's funny because it's so racist. And obviously I'm not racist. But it's so funny, like, especially from white comedians, it was always like a very dicey trope to dabble in. And the fact that you were able to do this. And yes, obviously like this guy is clownish, but it made me laugh because you're in on the joke in the best way. Um, I don't know how else to put it. I mean, like, I always say to a certain extent, some people can get away with it just by you being able to tell, oh, this person, this person's heart is in the best place. Uh, and I feel like that's what's happening. Um, in this one that we've been talking a lot about today, uh, Mr. Drama. Again, I'm not a huge fan of like ironic racism jokes. Not a hand. This one works for me. This one makes me giggle and laugh for the second that my child, black child came up to me. He's like, Dad, look at this. Look at this. This white dude's thinking about Africa, he's just freaking hilarious, like, you know, somehow you were able to tap into the Manatee Kudos, my friend Kudos. - Well, I really appreciate you saying that and kind of just to explain a little bit, I absolutely had that in mind too, and it does frustrate me. You know, that same thing frustrates me, and it's kind of a posture that frustrates me generally in comedy when it's like, you're just gonna say something heinous, and essentially what it boils down to is like, it's like you kind of inoculated yourself from criticism by, if someone does get upset, you're like, "Dude, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding." Like, all of it, like, says who? You've given no indication, like, you've, yeah. - And where was the joke? There was no joke. You just said something ridiculous, yeah, totally. - Right, and so what I tried to do in this song is, I, to the best of my ability, I was like, the audience has to know, you're not supposed to root for this guy. Like, this guy, we all know, I don't think anyone comes away from that song, A, rooting for that guy, and B, not realizing, this is a guy who is a moron that we are supposed to, you know, the deliver, that's the problem with, I think, a lot of that, like, especially 2010's ironic racism. The deliverer was essentially, like, what is the motivation of the person delivering this message? It's completely unclear when you do this, like, ironic. - You can't, you can't be sure you can trust them. There's something, maybe subtle. There's something that, that frames their, them. This is so hard, this is so nuanced, and I'm really interested in it. It's hard to put your finger on exactly why. Some people, and just the choice of the first part of the sentence, and you're already set up to be skeptical, or you're set up to, you're in. How do you think for this song, or the presentation of it? What do you think you succeeded in, in those first three seconds, to be like, oh, I'm with this guy because he has signaled to me, his intent, like, how did you signal to people? How do you think you succeeded in that, so early in the song, or the video, or both? - Yeah, I think, really, it does develop over the course, like, by the end of, it really, it culminates in that line that you mentioned, of like, I knew his meaning was what I decided I had heard, like, by that point, you realize that, you're kind of hitting it on the head of like, this guy is a moron, and he's an asshole. Like, you know, like, and, but I think also, it's your point of the actor who played Mr. Jombo, a lot of it did really come down to his performance in that, you know, I, like, you know, he is so clearly, I'm, you know, it's very easy to, regardless of the song, if you're just watching it with the sound off, no subtitles, I think you can tell immediately, this is a dude, meaning me, bothering this other guy. Like, you know, like, um, right. And so I think it actually humanizes the African dude, which is what I like, you know, it really makes it. That's why I love his eye cuts. So we're like, we're relating to him. Yes. And you're sort of the oblivious, because that's the beauty of it. Perfect. And I wanted it to be like, he is just a regular guy. Like, I, I, I'm imagining he's, my character imagines, he's Rafiki and he's literally eating breakfast and working on his car. Like, he's just, like, you know, and I just wanted that to be crystal clear to the audience. And, yeah, a lot of it came down to just his performance. And by the way, we, the way it worked was we had a producer in Esquatini. We said we wanted to cast someone to play this role. And essentially, I was like, just explain to this person that I am going to play an annoying, and this is what we told everybody on set, by the way. But it was particularly important for him, because he was going to have to do more acting. I'm an annoying American tourist. And he, I won't stop bothering him. And he wants me to go away. And they sent this, like, I guess, like audition tape of him literally working on a car and being like, get out of here. Get out of here. I'm hilarious. And I saw that and I was like, this guy is awesome. Sorry, Ambience is walking, running by. Listen, it's such a-- It's such a-- it's such a-- it's such a-- it's such a-- first or final-- is towards you. I mean, let's just, like, let's just-- it's what we do on the show. We break stuff down. And, you know, with comedy, there's this sort of added layer of, like, people really don't like when comedy gets super broken down. Sometimes, although I'm sure you know the, the Vulture podcast, the Jeffie, Jesse David Fox. What's it called again? Oh my god, I'm spacing on it. It's got the word one in it. Oh my god. I'm not one you're talking about, though. It's great. I'm a huge fan. Maybe even our show had a little bit of inspiration from breaking down a single joke for an hour, right? Is the one joke podcast? It's not called one joke, but I'm spacing on it. Anyway, shout out to Jesse David Fox, great show. All this to say that our deep analysis of the comedy might be off putting to everyone who isn't already a fan of our show. So I'm just going to go deeper into it. For me, I just love that there's so much in the song that is funny. There's so much in the video that is funny. But to me, like, there's an added level of, like, dissatisfaction that the punchline is that the translation of what is sung in Zulu is, I don't speak English. Do you have a translator? Stop yelling at me. That's just like, we're fucking funny to me. That's the thing I probably go to my grave, always thinking of every couple of years. You'll just pop in my head for the next 70 years. Oh, thanks. Yeah, that was-- And I kind of like how it kind of came-- so we didn't-- I was going back and forth about whether to include the translation. Because I thought I wasn't sure. Because I do think that the joke works, even if you don't know the translation, it still works because my character-- it doesn't matter. He could have said anything. And he's just going to hear it the way that he wants to hear it. You'll kind of know that it isn't probably what you're interpreting it as. Because on Spotify, you're not getting the visual that tells you the translation. It's only the video where you kind of get that additional punchline, but with-- or I guess additional explanation. Because it's still funny without it. That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah. And then when we did the social shorter cut downs, we did decide to include the English translation, because I didn't want people-- I decided I didn't want people to have to dig for that, because it's a fun bonus when you know what he's actually saying. But I do think it works both ways. But yeah, that was very fun to write. I don't speak Zulu, but I did take-- this is also studying for a test that no one was going to give me. I did been a Zulu tutor and was studying Zulu for a few months, so-- Oh, that's great. --prox to you. I'm getting to the bit. They're going to teach this in comedy in clown school, the committing to the bit 101 class. It's going to have a case study on you in this song. Just really quickly, the show is called Good Wine, just for the completion of the Jesse David Fox shout out. And it's interesting to me. I hadn't considered until this part of the conversation that when you make comedy music, so to speak, just to-- I hate that. If there's a better way to describe it, we have more podcasters. I hate that word too much. You make music this funny. When you make music, that's funny. I'm just now realizing you've got to consider it being received only as audio. And then you have to consider it being received as a full video. And you have to consider it being received as clips. How do you split your brain as a creator into those modes? Or do you even do that? I-- when I start writing a song, I try-- I don't think about anything visual, because in my mind, I would like the song to work without the visuals. So-- Right. --and then-- Same with our podcasters. Same with our podcasters. Yeah. As compelling as this is. Same with our podcasters with you. Yeah, I mean, but with the understanding that down the road, I will obviously be coming up with what the official video-- It just has to work as a song, pure and simple. It has to work as an audio, aural, a-u-oral experience. Yeah, OK. That's the goal. That's the goal. So when I'm writing, I am not thinking of how it's going to look. That makes total sense. And then the visuals give you kind of an opportunity to add more to it. It's sort of additive. You can now do things in addition to what's already baked in as funny, because the song exists as is. And then you start making choices about-- as you put it, the decision about adding the Zoolog translation, stuff like that can be enhancements. That makes a lot of sense. And I mean, totally. And in doing a parody of genres or pop music generally, that's how in the '80s or ever, no one Thank you. of the music video while they're writing the song. So I think it is sort of in keeping with how someone who would have written something that's my source material, they would have approached it the same way. Right, I want to talk to you a little bit about Kyle Gordon is everywhere, just as an album. The album comes out October 2nd. Mr. Jambo, doing everything that you would ever want, a hit, single to do Daniel Radcliffe is on here. Is this your-- how are you feeling about the album? I mean, obviously, you wanted to come out. And what do you think is going to be-- what do you think is going to be like to tour an album like this? Yeah, you're asking me at a good time. So this will be my third tour, like touring as a musician. So I would tour sort of me with an acoustic guitar at the chuckle hut, so it was much-- Ah, the chuckle hut, yeah. Exactly, yeah. So back then, the show was much more comedien with a guitar. But as I've started to release music, my live show has changed. I now tour with a band. It's Standing Room Show. That was a big kind of choice. I had to make in terms of, like, this is sort of-- you know, it's corny, but I used to think of my show as a comedy show with music. And now I think of it as a funny concert. And so it-- which was a big shift mentally in how I present the stuff. And kind of-- it's really interesting. And I feel like this album, generally how I approach all of this stuff has changed a lot in the course of actually releasing music that people consume in that both from a live perspective and the way I write the songs. Often what works for comedy is actually in direct tension with what works for music. Actually, what works for one is-- Amen, amen, I love that. That is so freakin' true. Drill down on that, I love that too. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, it's one of the reasons why I think it's actually harder to write funny raps, especially when so much of rap already has comedy going on in it. Like, you know, singing is always a little bit easier because there's something earnest about singing in the first place. Having a dude stretch out that vowel sound over five seconds, it's built for comedy. But yes, I can't agree more. Like, sometimes you're like, this is a great song, but it ain't funny, you know? I've never thought you're like, this is a really funny concept, but it doesn't sound like the genre, really, that it's supposed to sound like. Because at the end of the day, we are not-- I'll never forget, outside sidetrack, small sidetrack. We wrote this song, but she was going to sing it. He got in the booth and sang it. We get word, the neo will actually sing it. And we were like, oh, let's get neo to sing it. And he went in there, he started singing it. And we had to share it with each other. But she was like, and that, my friend is an actual singer, not a guy trying to be a comedian. It is really funny how sometimes they kind of lock forms those two seemingly compatible things. Absolutely. And the course of these past three or four years has been me. It's been a cool experience, if not a challenge, to find that balance of when to lean more into the pop song tropes and when to make it more comedic. And sometimes you can't have both. And or it's like this weird balance. So for example, the perfect example is jokes don't have a verse chorus, you don't go back to the chorus in a joke. And or with a sketch, for example, you have to, if you want to play with game or heightened, pop songs don't do that in the same way. And in a live context, the clearest example is that I had to figure out is when you go to see a comedian, you're going to see something new and be surprised. When you're going to see a musician, you are there to sing along to the songs that you know often, especially when you're seeing a pop act. So those are completely incompatible. Those are the opposite, right? Yes, exactly. It's literally the opposite. So deciding to lean more into this is a concert. Yeah, it's just been a journey to kind of figure that out and be comfortable, again, coming from a comedy perspective. Like, people can be having so much fun and really enjoying themselves, but they're not laughing at every punch line like you would need them to do in a comedy. So, and that's actually, you don't want that in a concert. You don't like it. So being comfortable with that, not like having punch lines that are landing in like you would do with live comedy, it took some getting used to. Would you say then, again, I think it's interesting, even just literally the choice of standing versus seated. So you're talking about the binary decision, I'm gonna choose venues where people are standing up. They don't have chairs to sit down on. That single decision is very indicative of like, well, that's not a comedy show anymore, per se, 'cause those comedy clubs have seats. You know, and the venues where people see music, where they're primed to see a musical act and the standing is a part of that. So that one decision was a big part of it. And then within the run of your, whatever it is, 40 minutes to an hour long show, you know, I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about on the one hand, maybe Weird Al, and then somewhere over here is Tenacious D, right? But then you have John Early, and I'm sure you saw his special couple years ago, where it's mostly him doing stand-up, but then he does like five or six songs, and the band is there the whole time. Where in that kind of spectrum, and then on the far end of that would just be a pure stand-up comedian, right? On the stage, in this sort of spectrum of comedian, perhaps all the way to Weird Al as being the pinnacle with the orchestra at the Hollywood Bowl, where is your set, where is your placement right now today as you continue to work through, which what the balancing act is? - Yeah, especially in my live show, I've never actually seen Weird Al live, I would love to, but I've seen clips or full versions of his, have you ever seen him? - I haven't seen him. - Yeah, I would like to see him, it's a great show. - I would love to, yeah, I would love to, but I think I'm moving more towards what he's doing in the sense of like, yeah, that's a concert. He obviously has these interstitial bits that are funny, where there's not music, he might be doing something like a stand-up bit where he's talking as himself or a video plays, but yeah, I definitely am moving more in that direction, and yeah, I guess what I'm now trying to, so essentially what I've done on my previous tours, is pretty stripped down, so I was like, I would just want it to be a simple show, but like, I would have like a hat rack, where I would change characters for each song, which kind of became its own device, in that the audience could see all the different costume pieces, and because they know all the songs, I would take, you know, whatever, like, my millennial hat, and like-- - You get a little chair, they would recognize it, they would come in. - Yeah, I know, he comes this one, I'm like that one, which, and I guess my, you know, obviously the concert is funny, and there are moments, like obviously comedic moments, but the goal became more, like, I want you to have the most fun you could possibly have at this show, and leave, like, I say, like, I promise you will not be bored, and so, like, I prioritize more, like, having fun, and maximizing the energy in the room, and so, that's how I started inching more towards a show, that's, I guess you would say, is more similar to Weird Al, and then in this upcoming show that I'm building now, it's gonna be a little more ambitious than what I've done in the past, so I'm gonna have more, like, visual elements, and there's gonna be sort of a thematic kind of structure in that, similar to kind of the framing device of the album, where it's this, like, which is what I had Daniel Radcliffe do, where it's like, this is like a, almost like an educational experience about the history of music, but, you know, the like, stupidest, you know, like, and on the album, like, Daniel Radcliffe, like, wildly overanalyzes like, you know, my stupid songs, so yeah, that's kind of the framing device of the show too, as if you're, like, in an immersive, like, educational, musical education experience, so yeah. - Well, we will be there on the front. my friend. I can't. Few tours am I looking forward to with with quite the fervor that I'm looking forward to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That'll be awesome. Yeah. See that actually weird out came to my last L.A. show. So it's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You never know who will stop by. I mean I gotta ask was was he as big of an inspiration as one might assume given that in our culture we don't have that many comedy music people. I think I've I think in the course of this conversation we've named almost all of them if not all of them. Yeah. Seriously. Like it's yeah I mean yes yes and no like it's like weird al is he's like such a huge part of like American cultural fabric that it's like how could he have not? And I think that's why you know sometimes when people say like oh new weird al new weird al I am obviously flattered by that but I think the reason they say that is because there are so few people. Exactly. It's like the only game they can. I hesitated even to ask because I would assume that on every morning show hit you ever done it was like the focus of what they were asking you it's such a obvious crit but it's obvious for that reason we don't have that many. Like the right. And your al is the Beatles and the Stones and the Who and the Kings a little bit of comedy music. 100% yeah and so I don't mind it at all. I'm very flattered by it even if I would say we're not really doing the same thing in many ways. I love him and his music and and like I grew up on it absolutely and so yeah I it doesn't bother me at all like I'm really flattered by it when people say that. You know I just want to give a shout out because it's dawning on me like arguably you were just as influenced as the man and at other posts his stamp over there. Diallo and Bashir you probably grew up watching their parodies just as much as you might have heard possibly even more than you heard weird al as they were propagating their humorous songs into the culture you know. That would be talent. We're the internet's best kept secret. But what's interesting about that if I can just put a point put a button on my own interesting theory like maybe 30 years ago there was just weird al and like I don't know this mother's brother's like there weren't there was not there was a lot and there was the bush belt and there was and there was a long history of musical and comedy like that's a long tradition and then at some point in the 80s we have TV and radio and in this new world if you're getting funny songs it's probably weird al in 1987 right for sure 1997 and then at a certain point the late night shows are another venue for that to happen. Diallo Riddle and Bashir are another way that on a daily basis you might hear something funny involving music like just that category. But then we now have with social media this other new way to get funny stuff and that's where you come into the picture a little bit as a pioneer of the forum where you're doing so now on our phones and you're doing so now in short form. So I'm just kind of thinking through how there is this evolution from music hall and Shakespeare or whatever all the way through now it's a new way to get something and Diallo is a bit of a bridge from maybe weird al to Kyle. Totally totally and it's like it's a crazy weird history and like I mean if you think back to you know the musical comedy and novelty songs are go back like you know like you were saying there's like pre-war spike Jones stuff but like the early like 50s rock era was like a lot of that was like comedy novelty music you know like yackety yack and Charlie Brown and like that's like that's you know so the big bopper you know it's always like oh it's the day the rock and roll died but then I was always like the big bopper I don't know but hey Richie and buddy I'm on board I'm on board but no pun intended the big bopper I don't know if that's when the music died sorry sorry to that man's family I think that's a really good point though and kind of the one I'm trying to make is like you know obviously we like so many people revered that golden age of rock and roll but the fact that the big bopper was part of the day the music died you can't forget that a lot of that music was like dumb music for 12-year-old boys too and hey I am I love it like I'm down with it so it is but like also it's sort of yeah it's been cool to see it develop and grow just like I guess you could say rock music generally not to be too highfalutin about it but um yeah I mean my that's my wife's favorite character of yours by the way is the 50s rocker with the 13-year-old that's I well I think I rewatch that clip every few months just to like refresh my happiness yeah thank you I yeah if there was ever a character of mine that you are not supposed to root for well listen man we've had a fantastic time talking to you we just want to say musician comedian and content creator Kyle Gordon his new album Kyle Gordon is everywhere is dropping October 2nd and yes he is kicking off a national tour in late September Kyle thanks so much for coming on this on our podcast and and sharing some time with us thank you yeah this was awesome uh yeah I love I love your guy show I love you guys this is awesome glad we're finally connected in person and we can't wait to see you when are you coming to LA do you have a date yet for the for the locals yes uh I should have it memorized but I am going to be at the roxy on uh October 24th October 24th we'll save us a couple of backstage apps we'll be there when he's coming to your town because we got listen is all over the place awesome yeah Kyle Gordon is everywhere I'm going all over North America Kyle Gordon wait no sorry Kyle Gordon is everywhere is the album Kyle Gordon is great.com uh for uh tickets to the show I'm going all over North America so I'm so glad you mentioned that because I love your Kyle Gordon is great as your first record Kyle Gordon is wonderful as your second record and Kyle Gordon is everywhere is the forthcoming record I love the Michael Jackson this of it all the bad to dangerous yeah I yeah consistent branding that's yeah that's the goal yeah Kyle have a good day man awesome thank you guys