Bonus Episode - Kristy's Great Idea (The Babysitters Club #1) - Ann M. Martin - Book Trivia Podcast

Welcome back to the first bonus mini-episode of the second series of the Book Trivia podcast, where we go digging through the stories you grew up with to uncover the details you might have missed the first time around. I'm Jess, joined by everyone's favourite 90s nostalgia and rage. Hi Jess, how are you? Good. Today we're heading straight to Stony Brook to talk all things the babysitters club, the wildly popular series by Anne M. Martin that turned a group of middle schoolers into the most organised child care empire of the 90s. From friendship drama to business marks, honestly I'm pretty sure Steve Jobs inspiration for Apple culture came straight out of Christie's notebook. We're breaking down what made this series such a cultural staple and why it still holds up today. But first, let's kick off with a quick round of totally unrelated Book Trivia before we get down and dirty spilling the B.S.C.T. rage. My first question for you. What was the name of another highly popular tween series written by Francine Pascal about teen aged twins called Elizabeth, the good one, and Jessica, no surprises here, the naughty one. I think that was Sweet Valley High. I love you. I knew you would get that. Did you know there were over 150 books in the series and Pascal, who was a former journalist, didn't want to have to write all of them. So she actually wrote a reference Bible for ghost writers and acted as the series de facto editor. You know about that? 50. I didn't know that there was that many. Fair enough. Come up with the idea and make someone else do it. Yes. Sounds heavenly. And just reap the rewards. Yeah. Okay, my theme this week, Jess, is Blast for the Past, specifically my time. I love your themes. Question one, Jess, in the 1980s and 90s, Ashton Scholastic used to release a catalog of their books to schools where kids would order books from them. And then if you were like me, you'd promptly forget all about the order and then what seemed like ages later, the books and the diaries and the cool sticker sheets and records and stuff would turn up at the school and begin out to you. So my question is, what was the name of the black cat that was always in the catalog? Oh, I love those catalogs. I used to pour through them and I agree when the books came at school, you were just so excited to see them. I have no idea what the cat's name. Give me the first letter and I'm going to give a wild stab at it. Elf Lucy. Yeah, um, lit cat. I don't know. Go on, tell me what it is. It was lucky. Lucky the book club. Lucky. Of course. Which is weird, right? Because I think that the lottery cat is also called lucky. So maybe that's all cat. Yeah. My question for you is, what's the name of the author of to all the boys I've loved before a series? I don't know. I have a theme this time too, nostalgic and kid YA type stuff. Is it and somebody? No, it rhymes with Anne. It her last name rhymes with Anne. Jenny. Oh, you are so close. It is Jenny. It's Jenny Han. Not Jenny Jan. I put an extra thing in there. Did you actually read the books? I haven't. No. But is it a TV show or something? It's movies and I've watched all the movies and I love them. And another fun tidbit about Jenny Han. Apparently her favorite dessert is blueberry pie and her favorite TV character is Buffy the Bamfire. No, she sounds like someone we should be friends with, yes. Okay. My question for you in fantastic Mr Foxx by role dial. What other names of the three horrible farmers? Bugs, Bunts and I'm going to feel so sad if I can't get this right badger or something. Bugs, Bunts and it's so close. Oh, I'm so I'm going to be so annoyed. I don't you're going to have to tell it to me. I could give you a clue for the last one. Yeah, give me give me a clue. I own cells, a lot of them in tin. Bean. Yeah. Bugs, Bunts and Bean, of course. Bugs, Bunts and Bean. Yeah, Bugs. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Fantastic, Mr Foxx is almost my favorite role dial. Only Eclipse by Matilda. I absolutely love Fantastic, Mr Foxx. And the reason I remember the name so quickly is because I went to read my son at not that long ago as well. So there you go. Wow. Yeah. I should have known. I should have known it was Bean. Kicking myself. Let's talk about this episode's featured book, which is "Christy's Great Idea" by Ann M. Martin. The first in this hugely successful babysitter's club series is from the 80s and 90s. This is also your spoiler warning where you're going to be talking about the old book and series. So if you haven't read it and you don't want to be spoiled, this is your warning. "Christy's Great Idea" was first published in August 1986. And the book is told from the point of view of Kristen Amanda Thomas, a 12-year-old girl living in the fictional Stony Brook, Connecticut, who comes up with an idea to form a babysitter's club with three friends. As it's the first in the series, it establishes the club and introduces the four main characters, Christy, Mary Ann, Claudia and Stacey Jess. Can you start us off with a fact about the book? I certainly can. Let's get cracking with a weird yet wonderful fact about how Anne describes the characters' clothes. In particular, Claudia's outfits are described in so much detail. For example, baggy plaid overalls, a fedora, red high tops, skeleton earrings. Did you ever wear that sort of stuff in the the late 80s or 90s, Rach? I couldn't afford to, but I would have if I had unlimited budgets. Love, love, love, those descriptions. I mean, I can't talk. It was a bit later on in the 90s, but for much of my tweens, I was going through a weird punk phase, so I used to wear skater shorts and baggy jackets. In one stage, I had like purple and green hair, so. Anyway. The Avril Lavigne. I think I'll want to be out Avril Lavigne, but well before she even came with to the scene. Anyway, back to Claudia. What I didn't realize is that her looks weren't just made up. They were actually pulled from catalogs magazines and whatever kids were wearing on TV at the time, so she's basically meant to feel like the coolest possible version of a 12-year-old in the 80s. So you're bang on saying that you wish that you had her outfits. Yes, I love to have outfits. That's makes so much sense. Okay. Random fact, Jess Stoneybrook is a fictional Connecticut town where 12-year-olds can ride their bikes to most places. It's located in Fairfield County, which is real, and it has a ritzy area, a harbor, farmland nearby, and it's nearby to Stanford and Bridgeport, and it's only an hour's train ride to New York City. First of all, why is this place fictional? Hello, it sounds amazing. Can we move here? Yeah, it sounds great. NM Martin has confirmed that the descriptions of Stoneybrook are actually based on Princeton, New Jersey, which is where NM Martin grew up in the 1950s and 60s. New Jersey? It's not clear why Martin chose to set the club in Connecticut, but Martin did live in Connecticut for one year when she tried out being a teacher straight after college, so perhaps that is why. The internet has a theory on where Stoneybrook could possibly be from the location information provided in the books. They've narrowed it down to Ethan Norrick or Westport, and they've put their money on Westport for one very important reason. At the end of I Love Lucy, Desi and Lucy moved to Westport, Connecticut, and Anne's love of I Love Lucy is really well known, and she even mentions Lucy a lot throughout the babysitters club books. So let's agree with the internet and say that Stoneybrook is basically a 1960s Princeton New Jersey dropped onto the location of Westport, Connecticut, mystery solved. Jess, is this the first time you've read Christie's great idea and did you love it? Of course it wasn't the first time I have read the babysitters club, it featured heavily in rotation when I was growing up amongst all my other tween books, so it was really fun to come back and say hello again to Christie in the gang. Let me trip down memory lane, Rach. I will say some parts have aged a bit like Stacy's diet, but wasn't it just a simpler time back then with no mobile phones and social media? What about you, Rach? I know this wasn't your first time, but how did you like it on the reread? Oh, my goodness. Reading this was like getting into a time machine. I have no ability to read it critically in any way. I just was feeling all the feelings, I was so happy and comforted going back to Stoneybrook and meeting all my little Stoneybrook friends again. They're all still there in Stoneybrook. I loved it. Frozen in time. Frozen in time. As you know, I love to start us off with some history about the authors themselves, so let me Let me tell you a little bit. about Anne and Martin. She grew up in New Jersey. She was obsessed with writing from a young age. Her mum was a teacher and her dad was a cartoonist who worked, whose works were published in the New Yorker. So it sounds like she had the perfect breeding ground to inspire her creative juices as a young child. Anne had always enjoyed writing, even before she was old enough to write, she would dictate stories to her mother to write down for her. Some of her favorite authors at the time were Lewis Carroll, P. L. Travers, Hugh Lofting, and our favorite who we just spoke about Roll Dahl was also one of her favorite writers. Roll Dahl. They inspired her to become a writer herself. Before she became an author, she studied education and child psychology, which explains how she was able to depict the tweens in such a realistic way. And what's really interesting is that she had a special interest in working with children, especially ones with disabilities like autism and dyslexia, which I think must have made her quite ahead of her time considering in the 80s, not much was known about the spectrum of those disorders. There are characters, especially kids, they babysit, who struggle with reading or behavior, which today you might interpret as things like dyslexia and autism, even if it's not explicitly labeled. So that said, the series aimed to stay accessible and relatable, so it focused on real life challenges rather than clinical labels. And herself has also talked about how her time at college shaped her perspective on strong independent female characters, which you can clearly see in the BSC girls, who are basically running their own mini-business at 12. That's true. So Jess, I'm going to tell you the story of how Ann M. Martin came to create the babysitter's club books, because I think it's quite interesting. You tell. When Jean Fible joins Galastic in 1983, Jean was put in charge of preteen and young adult books, dream job. And Fible noticed that despite having a rotten cover and being buried on the third or fourth page of the Book Club's catalog, or Book Club catalog, yes. A book called Ginny's babysitting job was a top seller month after month, and she thought it must be to do with the babysitting, because it's not to do with Ginny and it's not to do with the cover. So Jean, at a great idea, she approached Martin, who she knew, because they both were in publishing before Martin left publishing to become a freelance writer. Bonus trivia sidebar here, after teaching in Connecticut for a year, and had moved to New York City and worked in publishing at Simon and Schuster. And the Simon in Simon and Schuster is Carly, you're so vain, Simon's dad. You know Carly Simon? That's her dad, Simon and Schuster. What the, anyway, ever approached Martin with her idea, and her idea was that Anne should write a short series of books about babysitting. And all she asked was that the series title would be the babysitters club, Fible is quoted as saying, "All I gave Anne was just a glimmer of an idea, a series about a babysitter's club, and came up with everything else." What Anne has said previously is the idea was suggested to me by my editor. She asked for a four book mini series with the title, The Babysitters Club, and it was up to me to create the characters and to figure out just exactly what a babysitter's club might be. So what was supposed to be a four book mini series, which I assume was one book per babysitter, quickly took off into an empire and became five related series totaling over 300 titles, and around 180 million copies printed. 180 million copies printed is wild. Yeah. And what's even more wild is that Martin was only 30 when the first book came out. Jesus would have loved to have been a highly successful and no doubt rich author in my 30s. Me too. Let's talk about her actual process. The way that she wrote the books was she mapped out the entire story first, and then she wrote the full book from that outline all by hand on yellow legal pads. Talk about writer's cramp. And because Scholastic wanted to release one book a month, she was writing at a pretty intense pace, basically turning out books back to back. At one point with all the spin-offs, she was producing up to 30 books a year, writing from about 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. every day. That sounds like a hectic schedule. As you can imagine, eventually it just became too much for her to manage on her own, so they brought in ghost writers to help keep up with the demand. But to make sure everything stayed consistent, the editorial team created what they called the BSC Bible, which tracked every detail about the characters like eye color, hobbies, personality traits, everything. That Bible actually ended up becoming its own book, the complete guide to the babies in this club, with a full map of Stony Brook and all the character back stories. I was researching that Bible too, and the creation of it was overseen by David Levathan, who at the time was a 19-year-old intern. He's actually gone on to become Scholastic's editorial director these days. Nice! Yeah, got his big break with BSC. Yeah, back then he's this 19-year-old boy, and he said I was this guy sitting on the subway, not only reading babysitters' club books, he was highlighting them to keep track of who spoke French and who had green eyes and so on. So that was one of his first jobs in the publishing industry, putting together that Bible, that obviously then they thought, oh, we could publish this as a book and make a little bit more money. Anyway, that series went so well over the 80s and 90s, but around 1997 Martin was getting a little babysittered out. She'd written about a hundred of the books herself. She'd overseen all the merchandise. She consulted on the HBO show, and then she'd later consulted again for a feature-length movie. So she's quoted as saying there was not one particular breaking point, but because the girls never age, coming up with the plots every fall as they re-entered eighth grade again, began to feel a little old. And she wanted to start writing about her characters' maturing or growing in some ways. So she decided to end the series in the year 2000. She is also quoted as saying, it wasn't exactly like pulling teeth, but it was coming close. So yeah, in 2000 she wrote the final fittingly titled "Baby City's Club Book." It's called "Craduation Day." Then in 2010, year before the 25th anniversary of the first book, and returned to the characters and wrote a prequel called "The Summer Before." That's interesting. I didn't know there was a prequel kicking around. In 2009, all of the "Baby City's Club" titles had gone out of print, and to celebrate that 25th anniversary and the prequel books, "Gelastic Reissued," the first seven "Baby City's Club Books," with new covers, and they did some important updates. References to outdated technology like Walkmans were removed, and Stacy's perm was replaced with an expensive haircut. They didn't go all out with the updates, and as quoted as saying, we felt if we set ourselves going down the road of cell phones, it would have just been crazy. So we didn't do that, but we just updated stuff about Stacy's diabetes, and we got rid of stuff like VCRs. Now, I noticed this because the version I picked up and read for this episode was different, because I actually remember the first book when I read it in the 80s or 90s had the words "Zerox" in it, and that word petrified me in the 80s, because it had so many exes, and I didn't know what it was, and I didn't know how to read it or pronounce it, and it wasn't in the copy I reread for this episode. So since the prequel and involvement in the "Baby City's Club Books" has reduced to just overseeing the new graphic novel series based on her original characters, and she was also heavily involved and credited as a producer on the more recent Netflix series. She sounds like a very busy woman and in Martin with a lot of stamina to be building this BSc Empire. Speaking of the popularity of the book's rage there, of course, have been many TV and film adaptations. You mentioned she was a producer on the Netflix series, but the first TV series aired in 1990 on HBO and ran for 13 episodes. Then there was a 1995 film. I'm sure I must have watched that one when I was a kid. It had a couple of recognizable faces when I looked it up. Can you remember who played Marianne? Yes, definitely saw the TV series, but I don't think I've ever seen the movie. So in the movie, Marianne was played by Rachel Lee Cook, which I think is perfect. Really? Oh wow, yeah, that makes sense. And guess who played Dawn? I mean, you're never going to guess, but you can throw one out there if you want. Someone blonde in California, race with a spoon. I don't know. Would have been great. No, Larissa Ollianic. Do you remember? So she was the youngest sister in 10 Things I Hate About You? And she played. Oh really? Was she in that TV show where she used to melt as Mercury and then reform? Pause a minute. And Christie was played by Shula Fisk, who is actually CC SpaceX daughter. CC SpaceX daughter. There's some trivia. There is some trivia. And looking a bit more recently, in 2020, Netflix did a modern reboot of the series, which included more diverse casting. It was critically well received, but it was canceled after just two seasons. So maybe the BSE just doesn't resonate with kids as much as it used to this. days they wrote. No, it did resonate with us because I was thinking before people started watching sex in the city and decided that they were caries or charlots. Yes, we used to sort ourselves into being stasis and barriands. Back in the school playground. Jess, did you ever play the babysitter's club at school at lunchtime? Can't say we did, but it could have happened, I just can't remember. Definitely remember playing at school. Speaking about inspiration for the characters and in Martin, didn't just make these characters up out of nowhere. A lot of them are based on real-life people. Christy was actually based on her childhood best friend, Beth McKeeva Perkins. And when she was asked in an interview who she liked best in the gang and said my favorite is Christy, mostly because I created her first. I feel she set the series in motion. Also, she used my alter ego. I'm much more like Mary Ann. Christy is so unlike me and that was a lot of fun to write her. And even Stacey having diabetes wasn't random and wanted one of the girls to have a medical condition and she had friends with diabetes so she built that into the story too. Yeah, my best friend in primary school had diabetes so she loved Stacey. She would off. The books were published so long ago that that whole stacey can't eat any junk food and has to pretend that she's on a diet. That's all now really out of date because the way Diabetics manage their food intake is so different. Now, as mentioned, when they rerelease the books, they had to update some of the things. So I'd actually be interested to get my hands on those updates and see how they handled Stacey's diabetes storyline in the updates. Jess, we've got to talk favourites. Babysitters' Club, who was your favourite? You know what, Rachel, when I was younger, I would have said Mary Ann. She was probably my favourite because she would have been the one that I most identified with. Believe it or not. And I was a twin. Yeah, when I was a twin and all through high school, I was really shy. And I remember later in the series, she has that glow up and she finds her confidence. And I loved that storyline. But if I had to choose today, I'd probably say I love Loudon Bosie Christie, who I probably hated when I was a kid because she's a natural leader and I love her just do it energy, which is definitely how I try and live my life these days. So I've had my own Babysitters Club reformation. What about you, Rachel? Who was your favourite? Claudia. We never, we never the same. Oh, I just loved her again when I reread her this time too. I love her. I love that she was so cool with her outfits and I also love her junk food addiction, which I also have. And the coolest thing ever, she had a hollow book in her bookshelf and she was able to hide junk food in that. And oh my god, I wanted a hollow book so much and I was a kid. You probably had a hamburger phone too. You know how when you were kids, the hamburger phones are like the coolest thing? Yeah, well, she had her own private phone line and that was a cool thing as well. Jess, did you know that the internet says that Anne and Martin is queer? A Vulture magazine article referenced that she wrote four doll people books with her partner at the time, Laura Godwin. They've since broken up. So when that article came out that was celebrated by so many quarters of the internet, because many of the Babysitters Club fans have forever said that Christy is queer coded. And knowing that, I did take notice of a part in this book where Christy states that she has zero interest in boys. So I think the internet might have a point. Yeah, and I don't think she's ever married, either woman or man. So yeah, maybe she is. Yeah, okay. Perhaps. Well, anyone who has ever read a BSC book will also remember that most chapters start with a handwritten passage from each of the main Babysitters. I personally loved that format and when I was a kid, it felt like I was reading someone's actual diary and probably part of the magic for me. I looked it up and did you know that even though each of these passages look unique, they were all created by one person in Scholastic's art department. I couldn't find out the name of the actual artist, but what we do know is that they deliberately made each style like it matched the character or go through the characters. Yeah, Steeze was was practical, no frills, yeah, for her boss personality. Mary Ann's was neat and organized script, which makes sense. Your favorite Claudia was messy and creative. And Stacey had a slightly more grown up feel, which was neat and polished to reflect that she was the most worldly of the group. Just did you notice that Stacey does little love hearts over her eyes in her handwriting? Yes, reading. Yes, so I thought that was really cool when I was a kid and I stole it from Stacey. And for years, I would write my eyes and dot the eyes with a little love heart. And I'd completely forgotten about it. And years later, I would go back and find old school books and just die of embarrassment looking at my handwriting with my love heart eyes. So embarrassed. Most have taken you way longer to write stuff with hearts over the eyes every single time. I was a kid. I had nowhere to go and nothing to do all the time in the world. Speaking of being a fan of Stacey, do you remember when Stacey was written out of the babysitter's club? Right. Yes. Because my best friend was really upset. Yeah. It happened in BSC number 13 and it was called goodby Stacey, goodby Stacey heads back to New York City. Of her decision to write Stacey out of this year is Martin told entertainment weekly. I thought it was reasonable that in a group of friends, the size of the babysitter's club, one member might move away at some point. Since Stacey hadn't grown up in Stony Brook, I thought it made sense that she might have to move back to New York City at some stage. But at that time, Stacey was BSC's most popular character. And as you said, fans were not pleased. Big mistake. Huge mistake. Stacey's huge fan base let it be known that they wanted her back in Stony Brook ASAP. So as a result, Stacey had her homecoming in BSC number 28, which was called Welcome Back Stacey. Yeah. All the girls used to fight over who got to be Stacey when we played babysitter's club. Or like when you played Greece and everyone wanted to be Sandy. I always was made to be Frenchy. Frenchy. What's the matter, Sandy? Aren't you happy? No, Frenchy, but I think I know where could be. Anyway, rereading this was such a mood. It took me straight back to my Lucky Bull club catalogs. I stick a collection slap bands. Do you remember those, Jess? They'd slap them onto your wrist. Oh yeah. Friendship pins, bringing you ghetto blaster to school and making up dances with your friends, ripper skipper skipping ropes, choosing between lead lemonade or mellow yellow at the local roller skating rink. And of course reading babysitter's club books. I was so deep in the Austin Scholastic Apple Pay for that universe. There were a few copycat series which tried to build on the success of the babysitter's club. So do you remember the gymnasts? A little series that came out and stopped. Of the Evergreen Academy, no. And peanut butter and jelly. Yes. Yes. I think that got a few books in and didn't take off. So they counted. And then obviously when you got a little bit older, you got your sweet belly hires with France and Pascal. Do you remember any of the standalone Apple Pay for that, Jess? Like secrets in the attic. Yes. Yes. Of course. What about sixth grade secrets? Did you ever read that? I don't think I ever read that one. Or there was another favourite of mine, Adrift Lost Girls, where all these girls got washed up on a desert island. I wish I could get all those books back. All of those books, they only had one or two editions come out before they would just can for not being the next babysitter's club. And I would start reading them and then there would never be any more released, which is very bad. Yes. Steam rolled by BSC. I also would try to read all the other Anna Martin books I could get my hands on. So I did manage to read as a kid by my summer, which was her first ever book. And another book that she put out separate to the babysitter's club universe called Ten Kids No Pets. Jess, in that book, Ten Kids No Pets, the family had a rule about laundry, which still haunts me. I actually thought about it this morning. I'm not kidding. So they had ten children and the rule was you close got put away in a pile, and then you had to just wear whatever was on top of the pile. So you'd get one t-shirt and one pair of shorts and it didn't matter if they didn't go together, didn't matter if it wasn't your favourite. You had to wear that. Coming from I was in a family of ten kids and that is such a random, very random rule to set up. I don't see how it helps the household at all. I think the theory was that all the clothes wore out evenly and you couldn't just keep wearing your favourite t-shirt over and over again, because then that would wear out and you wouldn't be having to hand it down to the younger children. But I actually still feel guilty when I pick out something from the middle of the pile from my t-shirts because it just went really deep in my psyche and I didn't even live in a family of 10 kids that I don't know why that went in so deep. Anyway one of the very specific joys I got from rereading this book was actually being able finally to look up the American terms while I was reading compared to when I first read these in the 90s so in this book alone I had to research floppy joes for lunch fudge sickles playground games called four square and tetherball what playing candy land entailed and I had to refresh myself on what middle school is and why high school grades are freshmen sophomore junior and senior all of these things were such a headspin when I was a kid because you you had no way of knowing what any of this stuff was and sometimes I had to wait years till I could figure it out like Xerox. Feaking of not having any idea about the word Xerox we have to talk about the weird and wonderful American food that gets referenced for this year as you already mentioned some like sloppy joes. Claudia's room was basically like a teens junk food fever dream she got she's got things in there that I had never heard of as a kid like malomas devil dogs orios which I now love as an adult. Ringdings twinkies and then each character has very specific foods that they love and mentioned through this year. Shall I share some of the character foods faves right? Yes I want to know. Okay so you've got Christy whose favorite is anchovy pizza which I remember thinking sounded like bath town when I was a kid and as an adult I love me a salty anchovy so I love when I was a kid I was like what. Stacey and Mary Ann had sweeter tooth so Stacey loved blueberry pancakes and Mary Ann loves strawberry ice cream both I have no complaints about those and then later on in the series we get introduced to dawn who loved tofu and healthy food Shannon who loved snickerdoodle cookies whatever the heck they are and Mallory who randomly loved artichokes. Okay. Artichokes. Actually you mentioned tofu not specifically book one but these books were definitely the first time I ever heard about tofu and I reckon it took another 15 years before I ever saw it on a menu in Australia you also mentioned autism which again I read about in these books and then I didn't hear about it again for another 25 years in real life. It's just so ahead of her time wasn't she? Yeah and just we were such a backwater back in the 80s in Australia. Yeah true. Jess do you remember the super specials and how cool you'd feel when you read one of those big fat super specials? That's actually where I learned that Disney land is in California and Disney world is in Florida mind blown. How can they have two one one continent? So lucky and I actually I remember the New York New York super special where Stacey was back on home turf and the other special I loved was the island adventure so I think you mentioned a book about kids going to an island. Well this one the babysitter's club go on a tropical cruise and they end up getting stranded on an island and they have to work together on how to survive. So maybe that's why I love watching survivor all these years later. Maybe. I do yeah I do hope none of the BSc would have a tribal council to vote someone out. Anyway I digress back to the facts. Even though there were over 200 books in the series did you ever notice that the girls are basically stuck in a time loop perennially at 12 to 13 years of age for the entire series? I think you did actually mention it. Well that was a deliberate choice by the publishers so that the new readers could jump in at any point without needing a backstory and the same school same dynamics etc meant that it was a repeatable formula that was easy to keep writing. But as you mentioned over time even Anne and Martin said it started to feel very limited and she felt very burnt out having to have the girls continue to re-enter eighth grade every year with no real character growth. Yeah there's multiple Christmases and summer vacations and school year cycles and they clearly can't or feel in one year. Anyway just I'm not sure because you're not on sub-starch as much as me. Last year a little essay this man wrote went quite viral on sub-starch where he was reading Boy Crazy Stacey to his daughter and he wrote his article about how funny it was because the parents are just not there for the entire book so they hire two 12 year old babysitters to take their family of eight children to the New Jersey Shore and then they just disappear. They're like he's $20 we're going to this old fashion town for the day and leave Stacey and Mary Anne in front of their entire family including a baby and this father is saying the 80s was a brilliant time for parenting why am I putting in all this effort and parenting my children when clearly I should just get some 12 year olds from the local schools to come in and do the work for me the parents are just not there at all. Because also when I was reading I was like wow 12 years old would I allow a 12 year old to look after my kids. I think you'd be getting a baby set up for your 12 year old. Yeah. Actually the internet was divided on that because some tunics as we say yes it totally was like this and there were 12 year olds looking after toddlers and babies and other people were saying no that wasn't even realistic back in the 80s it's more of a 1960s 50s thing. What a time to be alive. Do you know what Rachel it wasn't just girls who loved these books there's actually a pretty famous male author who has mentioned in interviews how beloved the BSC is to him. Can you guess who it is? I can't who tell me who is it. It's friend of the pod. Not so different of the pod. You mentioned him in a previous book trivia question. Lord Byron. Lord Byron. You've got it it's Lord Byron. massive babysitter's club fan. But yes John Green so he said I found the babysitter's club and I was in love. I was in love with Stacey of course because she was awesome and cute and prone to getting herself into trouble but I was also in love with the books. The BSC offered me characters whose conflicts were like my own or at least revel relevant to my own. They experienced interpersonal conflict and even internal conflict. If I may paraphrase Faulkner when talking about the babysitter's club for me at least Stacey's griefs grieved on universal bones. paraphrasing Faulkner to describe the BSC that's an interesting case of art imitating life. Another thing I didn't realize you'll agree the covers of the babysitter's club books we grew up with were iconic right. Love the covers. Even when I was reading Christie's great idea I had several people automatically realize I was reading it and have a chuckle with me because it was so instantly recognizable and they were wondering why a woman of my age was walking around with the BSC book in my head. But did you know reached they were actually painted as in full oil paintings. Did you notice? Wow. Because their photo released it. The same artist Hodges Solio did over a hundred of them and apparently he's been selling the originals. I tried to look one up online to see how much they go for. One site said a babysitter's club cover study painting. Not the actual cover painting but a study of it. Went for 575 USD at auction. Would you pay that much for a rate? Yes. One hundred percent. And do you know which one I'd want specifically? Which one? My next piece of trivia. Book 2. The original cover is Claudia standing next to a wall phone with a blonde toddler on her hip. The model that posed for that toddler was Kirsten Dunst. It was her first modeling job. Oh you're kidding! No, it's Kirsten Dunst. So yeah, I'd pay any kind of money for that. I love Claudia. I love Kirsten Dunst. Or Kirsten Dunst. I don't know. Yeah, I call her Kirsten but I don't know. Jess, we better begin to wrap this episode up with a round of drawer files. I'm going to start us off. So true or false? Anne, Anne Martin and her best friend Beth used to holiday at the Jersey Shore and flirt with the lifeguards just like Stacy did in boy crazy Stacy. Oh, true? It is true. Yeah, they used to make them sandwiches and flirt. How cute? The boy should be making them sandwiches. Thank you. My true or false? And you will know it actually. This is where we don't tell each other the true or false. But the name for the series, the babysitter's club was decided on before anything else. I'm going to say true. Yeah, true. You already mentioned the editor had already come up with the basic idea and then Anne built the characters and the plot behind it. So that's pretty funny because it's the opposite of how most books are created. Definitely the opposite. Okay, Jess, my last true or false, the M in Anne and Martin stands for Matthew. I feel like no because M is a middle name and she wouldn't have Matthews as the middle name. It's true. Matthew was her mother's maiden name and her parents wanted to name her Mary, but they couldn't because there was already a famous Mary Martin, so she was Anne. Anne, Matthew's Martin. Why didn't they just do the double barrel last name? I don't know. Maybe they hadn't been invented yet. My true or false for you, Anne and Martin actually ran a real babysitting club as a kid, but it got shut down because one of the kids they were looking after broke their arm after falling out of a tree. And hoping that's false, is it false? Yeah, I can never get you. In reality, she said that she and her best friend used to try and start all sorts of clubs growing up, but they never really lasted. They'd meet, they'd eat snacks, and then it would fizzle out after a couple of days. So not quite the highly organized operation, Christy was running. That sounds more like what I would do as a 12 year old. Let's start a club and then you just sit in a freehouse for an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Let me wrap it up with the last final fact. Rach, have you ever wondered what happened to the girls? They'd all be in their 30s right now if they ever got off that time loop train. No, they'd be, they'd be older. According to Anne and Martin, Christy is probably the head of something, maybe a business, fat tracks. Claudia is an artist, also tracks. Stacy's doing something in fashion, not necessarily design, but maybe the business end. I think, yeah, that makes sense as well, but I would imagine she would be the in-design. What do you think Mary Ann ended up as? Librarian. Perfect, but no, she said she's a teacher. Some of the other characters that got introduced later on, Jessie is still passionate about dance, but not a professional. Dawn is permanently in California, and Mallory, Anne and Martin does not have any strong feelings about Mallory, so her future is forever in doubt. Poor Mallory. Poor Mallory. And Dawn didn't get much either. She could have made her an activist or chilling out in California. No, she's just California, that's it. Well, my final short fact is that Martin has now donated all her original book outlines, drafts and related papers to her former university Smith College, and they're actually available for people to read. So, similar to, do you remember our Anne of Green Gables episode where you look at the holograph online, you can actually look up the Anne and Martin papers online and have a look at her handwriting on those yellow legal pads as she outlines the episodes. Do you reckon she dotted the eyes with hearts? She did not. I can confirm. I've had a look at a few. That was just me. And no university wants my whole thing donated, so they will never see the light of day. Maybe one day. And that wraps up our bonus episode featuring the gang from the Babysuitters Club. What a fun little trip back to Stony Brook, equal parts nostalgia, chaos and surprisingly solid business strategy from a group of 12-year-olds. Rach, before we go, do you want to give us a teaser for what's coming up next? Yes, my teaser is we're going to stay back in the 1990s, but we're going to move to Sydney and do our higher school certificates at St. Martha's and seek our own emancipations. So a quick shout out to my friend, Roxie, for being one of our first super fans. We love him. And she asked us to do this next book, so Jess, what's your teaser? My one is, again, I love to go a bit more abstract. Family expectations, complicated friendships, a past that won't stay buried and the growing feeling that you just don't quite belong anywhere, not at home, not at school, not even in your own skin. What are we talking about? Can't wait. Thank you so much for listening. And if you liked this episode, please like and subscribe. And only if you liked it, rate and review our podcast on whichever podcasting app you use, or better still, tell a friend to listen. On whole book trivia, find us at booktriviapodcast.com, and you can also follow us on Reddit, YouTube and Substak, where we are, book trivia podcast. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. [Music]