Bongo ByTheWay + Ant Clemons | Songwriting math, producer psychology + Ye hits

Actually, did we do a song for Joe Biden's inauguration? We just internally called "Better Days." I think we did that song. Yeah, that's Michael Barroway, y'all. [LAUGHTER] [MUSIC - "Better Days"] Ladies, gentlemen, and everyone in between. I am Justin Tranter. Welcome to our podcast, "Unfamous," where we break down the art of collaboration. I am very excited about today's episode, because we have two really, really, really brilliant people on, a producer, an writer, an writer, and a producer who works together all the time. I'm lucky enough to have known both of them. And we are lucky enough to have them on the podcast, mother fuckers. Now, instead of the part of a podcast, we're like the host, awkwardly like lists all of your credits in front of you, I like to use this moment so that collaborators can brag about each other and you introduce each other to the audience. So that's tight. Right? OK, so who would like to go first? Introduce. So, "Bong-O-Botter Way," y'all, ladies and gentlemen, y'all. We got Grammy nominated. Grammy Award winner. Grammy Award winner, y'all. Three-time Grammy Award winner, "Bong-O-Botter," with Na'e, all the way from everywhere, man. He, from Nigeria, and Florida, and Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Nigeria, Florida, and Rhode Island, coming to you live from wherever we at, I ain't going to disclose this location, but it's very nice. [LAUGHTER] "Bong-O-Botter Way," "Bong-O-Botter Way." And, uh, to my left, come on. The incredible, the incomparable, the immaculate. The next level. What it is, man. My brother. My dog. From my-- That's the one. Willemboro, New Jersey. [LAUGHTER] Oh, man. The man behind so many hits. I mean-- Do we need to talk about them? Do we need to talk about them? They have-- You know, we're watching us on hers. They can look at us. They can have to be here. Actually, didn't we do a song for Joe Biden's inauguration? Yeah, that's "Bong-O-Botter Way," y'all. I know, my brother, my brother, my brother, the incomparable. And, "Clammiss." [APPLAUSE] You know, "Bong-O-Botter Way" is for Justin! Now get up for your sales at home! Yeah. You know, when people look this good at 11 in the morning, it's going to be a great time. It's going to be a great time. So-- I appreciate that. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you already had a costume change. There was a jacket reveal. It was all happening. So apparently, rumor has it that the first day you guys wrote together, you wrote 11 songs in one day. Is that rumor true? That's a hundred percent fat. Can you break that down from me? Where were you? What was happening? Why do you think the vibe was so good that you could write 11 songs in one day? Tell me everything. I think the most I've ever done is like four. And that seemed insane and that I should be 51/50. But 11 is a whole other level of-- I wrote a song called 51/50, and I would love for your ears. And the concept is like, you got to hold on me. Like, come on. I love you. I love you. Anyway, so like the first day, you want to do it? I mean, well, the reason behind that-- You can talk about the story behind the box. How the reason behind it is like, first and foremost, we're working, we have a crazy chemistry. But you know, you have to mess somebody like, pushes you like when Iron Sharpen's Iron. It was literally that from moment one. And he would be right. The way this dude writes songs, I've never seen like-- I've never seen someone write a song from the top down. I'll play the beat for like three seconds. He's like, pull it up. Pull it right up. And then he-- from the top of the song down, he just writes it like he already had the song. And his head. The only other person I've heard of that does that it's Sia. And that is a great person. That's great company to be in. She is amazing. Yeah. Amazing. I love this song right here. And when someone's doing that, and me, I'm like, OK, he's writing, and he'd be like, I like to type in. I like to write, I like to add like little melodies here and there, little concepts and stuff like that. But he's like, super self-sufficient to the point where it's just like, man, I'll just let him go. I put the headphones on. I start working on the next idea. And by the time he's done with the song, the next idea is to, boom, play for three seconds. Load it up. It was literally like that. But it was literally like that. Back to back to back to back to back to back to back. And we look back in this 11 records. Yeah. Wow. Day one. Day one. And it was just like a pitch session. You guys were just writing. There was no art, like there was-- or was it for your project or what was it for? Just whatever. It was. My boy Ray Shana Turey. He introduced me to Bongo. And he's like, yo, I'm going to change your life. I'm like, I just talk about it. And he actually did. Because it introduced me to Bongo was phenomenal. I pulled up. And Bongo's already playing something while he's making something. And I'm like, all right, that's different. Because he got the logic going. But he also got his whole library just like, all right, I have these thousand beats right here from just these few little months. Then these thousand from this little time of months, what do you want to hear first? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah. And we just start going and going. And as I'm recording, we had-- I can't remember who the engineer was the first day. He's going to kill me. But he was-- Apologies in advance. Apologies, 100%. But literally, my brother, like his name was just escaping me. You're working at Feynworks. Yeah, we're working at Feynworks in North Hollywood. And it was so cool, because I never had somebody meet me at the speed of creation. Yeah, especially at that speed in my career, coming out here from Willem Brown, New Jersey, it was just like, I knew a few people, but not-- I had found my tribe. And when I met Bongo, I felt like I met my brother. I was like, oh, this is crazy. The first day we did 11 songs. The next day, we ended up going to Jeremiah's house. And we did four songs there. Wow. And we locked in with Jeremiah ever since. And we, like, three amigos, that entire year. Shout out Jeremiah, our brother. And literally, it's been-- Bongo is one of my favorite collaborators, because one, he gives you the space to be you. Yeah. He's not trying to, like, he can write as fast as I can write. So he can easily just, hey, no, it should be this. And then this melody. And it's like, because we both know we don't care about-- we do care about the credit. We're not-- Trying to get this shit away, yeah. We are both here for the song. Whatever makes the song better, best thing possible. If he's starting a song with a sample, and I'm like, that's going to kill the publishing, if the sample gets us to where we need to get to, and then we are able to recreate it, it's worth the journey. Yeah. So it's like, in every single part of that entire process, gets us to the best part of the song. For aspiring songwriters and producers who are watching this, can you really quickly break down what you mean? We get-- sometimes in the weeds and geeky here, because we're hoping that people are watching this to learn about the art of collaboration and about the business. When you say that, obviously, the three of us know what we mean when we say the sample is going to kill the publishing. Can you really quickly break it down for anybody at home what that might mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know what you do. I mean, I mean, we've probably got a lot of situations. Like, there's been situations. I'm not even going to name the artist or whatever. But like, there's situations where we've taken a sample. Or like, actually, I don't remember the artist, but we flipped and shot our hitmaker. We flipped. My bad. That, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. They took everything. So we're just using that-- Using that horn part from that song. Yes. Well, we took the song. We took the song. But like, yeah, using that sample. And they don't need us to sample anything. They get enough sinks, which are like songs that get linked with a movie or a commercial or any type of live performance. They get that out to Wazoo. So for us to be like, hey, we got this little record over here. They're like, oh, yeah, cool. We'll take 95%. But songs normally have like two-- every single song is built up, but just two different streams of income. We got the master and the publishing side. Exactly. So if you are out there and you love a song, and it's a sample, and you copy a piece of someone else's master recording, you have to go to them and get permission for the use of the master recording. What hip hop came and did with samples is reworked people's other master recordings and then made brand new spaces still paying homage and paying credit in proper money to the people that they sample. But like, paving away for brand new creation to be like a thing. Yeah. The space where Bongo's talking about is a story that we both have shared many times. I was blessed to do this song with Noah Cyrus early. And she's one of my favorite people to work with. Yeah, she's really special. Me, her, and my family triangle park. We did this song that interpolated. Now, I knew the song from a TV show. It was The Wonder Years. So I thought I was singing The Wonder Years theme song. I didn't know. And that was Apalmacartney. (laughing) I found out via email. (laughing) However, Apalmacartney, if you out, I appreciate you. Thank you for the beautiful words in the email. He says one of the best versions of his songs I've ever heard, I'm taking all of the publishing. I was like, you deserve it, sir. - Wow. - 'Cause I'm a Michael Jackson fan. - Okay, so when that song came out. - Yes. - You had, you made zero men- - Zero publishing. - So, 'cause Apalmacartney, right? So, to break it down, right? So if you use a small piece or a large piece of somebody else's song and create your own art from that, then you have to go to the original writers and say, hey, let's negotiate splits. And you hope that I have a Selena Gomez song called Bad Lier and the bass line is from Talking Head Psycho Killer, which David Byrne wrote the lead singer. He was very nice to us. And we really wrote the whole song over his bass line. That was the original spark and it was equal splits. So 25 me, 25 Julia, 25 Ian, the producer, 25 David Byrne. But sometimes, Apalmacartney says, I'm taking 100%. - But then sometimes we have Jermaine DePri and Brian Michael Cox who say, you know what, I'll give you your regular percent on. I just did, but it was blessed to be a part of this song with Chris Brown, it depends. Where in the middle of the song, it's Usher sample. And they could easily just 100% at the entire song, but like with relationships and with people just saying, you know what, for what this song is, we just want a small piece. - Yeah. - They could go either way. - Yeah, how do you, in moments where they're gonna take everything or almost every, I think you said 95, you said 100 on your song, how do you emotionally come to terms with that? Do you just go, fuck it. - You just what? - You just what? - It's a word with lots of it. - Hey, what's up? What's up, fuck it. - Let me tell you, I'm so blessed to be in a position to work with my brother and work in a space where this is what we do for a living. - Yeah. - Like I can wake up and create something and get paid off of something I can't physically touch in a single day. - Yeah. - I'm blessed. So I don't try not to look at the hardships that do come with the job. - Of course. - It's the good with the bad, but I don't want to cut you off. - No, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like the currency also comes in moments. - Yes. - And if you're a part of a moment and if you can create a moment, that's worth more than, you know, maybe just what that publishing hit was. - It'll open more doors. - Yeah. - Yeah. - When you said it early on that you met, when you guys met, it was like someone that was like sharpening your sword and pushing you. Were you, both of you, were you always prepared for that type of collaboration or is it something that you grew into? 'Cause I know for myself like, when I first met Matt Man and Robin, who I lucky enough, it's like half of my hits are with them, they would really push me in at first. I'd be like, "Oh, this song's amazing, shut up." - Right. - I slayed, did you hear that lyric? - Yeah, I killed it. - Leave me alone. And they'd be like, yeah, but this melody is stepping on that melody, so it's making your amazing lyric. We agree, we love it too, but that lyric isn't shining. And I had to really, I was like, you know, but I was like 35 and I was ready to like, handle that level of collaboration. Do you guys, were you always ready for that level of collaboration or did you think you grew into it? - I wanna say yeah, 'cause it's like a, it's like the ego thing or the lack thereof. - Yeah. - Like there wasn't an ego on either side. It was just like, we want the best record. And I felt like at the same time, we learned a lot of things together. Like you know what I'm saying? Like even working with like Jeremiah, Ty, or James Fondleroy, you know, those are like people that we've learned a lot from at the same time. So it was like a constant growing and a lack of ego working with somebody. You were just trying to make the best music. - Yeah. - I felt like that made it. That shows that our mentality was already locked in from time, you know? - And being like, oh I'm sorry. - No, no, please go, go, go. - Like being a producer or a writer, you have to learn how to play nice in the sandbox. This is part of the job. - Yeah. - It's like the best people, like the most talented people that keep their songs in their hard drives don't necessarily, aren't the most successful. - Right. - And I learned the key to success is to be amazing at collaboration. - Yeah. - I've had amazing collaborators on my way to meet in Bongo. Like my sister, Shamika was one of my first songwriters who told me what songwriting was. And she said, do you know that this person doesn't write all their songs? And this person doesn't write all their songs? And it introduced me to a whole world. - Yeah. - And then from there, Shamika and I actually came out to LA and I met my boys, but I'm biscuit. There were other collaborators I worked with. - Great name. - I worked with. (laughing) - I met Ray through butter and biscuit that then introduced me to Bongo. So it's like, it was a little bit of a journey, but by the time I got here, it's like I was already prepped of working with this type of person and then this form of people and then this group of people that Bongo was a cakewalk. 'Cause we're so similar in just family and core values that it's like, he knows my mom. Like he knows my parents, I know his parents. Like it's so cool to have like somebody I look at as like a big bro that's like, yo, you've been doing this a little longer than me. However, you don't treat me like just some scrub. - Yeah. - Like you treat me like a equal. - Yeah. - How did you learn that collaboration was the way to success? Where did that come from? - I'm a student of the game. - Yeah. - And from my favorite artist, Michael Jackson, his most successful albums to me were with Quincy Jones. - Right. - And it was not broke, if it ain't broke, don't break it. So like, you know, LaFace and Babyface and LA Read. - Yeah. - You have Tim and Missy, you got Chad and Ferrell. It's so many amazing teams. - Yeah. - Jimmy Jamm and Terry Lewis, it's like phenomenal teams that one person makes the next person better. - Yeah. - And the songs always are way better when it's two people doing. - So I love that. So I started in this business in a rock band, right? And in rock, they're so obsessed with like the singular genius, right? Whether it's Kurt Cobain, you know, the list goes on and on and on. And I think really in today's world, right? Kurt, whoever was producing those records, butch big and blah, blah, blah. Like his band members, they would probably all get publishing in the new standards that I think are much more respectful and as this should be. But it was so about like, oh, well, this person is a singular genius. Yes, Fleetwood Mac is a bunch of people, but Stevie Nicks, she wrote dreams alone. Which of course, she wrote the bulk of it alone, but without Lindsay and whoever was producing to get it there. But I stupidly came from the mentality of like, I must be a singular genius. And I love hearing like you growing up your heroes, it was very clear that it was like, at least two people, if not more. I can relate to that because when I came up producing like, I looked up to like, Ferrell and like, Timberland and like, and those are people who could like, 100% of record, you know, even Stevie Wonder, like people that could like do everything, right? The song, like, that's the standard that I held myself to. But it's when you work with people of the caliber like, and like, and you realize, oh, they're bringing as much to this, as I'm bringing, you kind of, you gotta learn who to let go of the will with. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, when like, Matt and Robin pushed me at first, I was like, what, what, what do you mean? Look at me, I'm so fierce. How do you, but then when I, we tried their ideas, and I was like, oh, fuck. We love this. You're right, but I had to, I had to learn that in the moment, you know, like, if I would have come to co-writing, and the behind the scenes music business, which is so deeply collaborative, if I would have tried it in my 20s, I would have burnt every fucking bridge. I would have, you know, I would have been bad. How do you guys balance when you can write so quickly? How do you, is it, then you write a bunch and you step back and go, okay, these, these couple are special, let's dig in. Or how do you balance speed versus quality? Or how do you gauge it? How do you know when something's, you just wrote it fast, or also you wrote it fast and good? Like, what's the, is there a way to gauge it? I like to think it's repetition period. It's like a sink, like the dirty water is going to come out, so the bad songs are going to start, but the more the water runs, the less likely you'll have bad water. Yeah. So the consistency, we're able to do a whole bunch of songs, and I think the quality isn't affected by the quantity, because we've practiced, we've done our 10,000 hours, 10,000 times. Hello, my little, un-famous friends. So the thing about the algorithm, low-miss algorithm, is that she doesn't want to let people know about our podcast, unless she thinks that people love it. So if you follow this podcast, what are the old school YouTubers say, like, subscribe, and follow? If you do that for me, then you will help the un-famous message of the beauty of the art of collaboration reach more people. So please, do me just a cute little favor, and follow this podcast, and share it, and do all those fun things. Bye. To wrap up, I would say the quality gets better with the quantity. Yeah. The more repetition. Yeah, I'm a-- people-- you've done all this, blah, blah, blah. you still writing so much. I'm like, what's the fucking muscle? Like, you know, I've said that's a couple times, but it's worth repeating. Like, when I came back from COVID because I did not write the first year because my parents moved in with me and the thought of getting them sick just was too stressful. So I didn't write for a year. And so when I came back, like, the first year I was writing after taking a year off, the song sucked. Like, and I knew it. I knew they weren't good. I couldn't really tell you why because like structurally it was hitting all the things and the magic wasn't there because like, to get the magic, it really is like a fucking muscle. Yeah, it really is. What is a song that you guys have done together? If you have, if you can't pick one, that's fine. But if you could pick one, if you had to pick two, I'll allow it. I'll allow it. That like, that you feel like really sums up your collaboration. I got my as a good bongo. No, no, you go for better days. So fun working with someone who completely lets me just be creative. Yeah. And everything starts with a conversation. So Bongo knows how big of a Justin Timberlake, not a in sync fan, I am. I have in sync dolls in my house. Like the biggest fan was your favorite in sync era. That's a great question. No strings attached. Yeah, I mean, that's just because of the freedom and like them fighting for their name and yeah, owning it and standing on it and those songs. I just loved in sync. Yeah. So when we worked on this song for Justin, I was a fan of the music that he grew up on. He was a fan of Sam Cook. So I was like, how can we do something in the space that's like change going come. And Bongo was like, I got it. We had our voice around there. He started playing the bass. He's like, now I got the drums. Now we got it. And I kind of started riffing a little bit. We had the song in about 20, 25 minutes. Like the whole idea. And this is before COVID, like really, really took over everything. But it was around the time that the George Floyd thing had just happened. And I was like, the world needs like a song to help uplifting uplift. Yeah. Yeah. And we both, we don't naturally make songs like that. So it's like to pour ourselves into the music like in a space where we could be vulnerable and just be honest. Yeah. It's, I think that's the best collaboration with Bongo. Yeah. I think I agree. Because like I said, it's about moments, like capture our moments and to make that in like the loft at my house. Yeah. And for it to go to the inauguration. Yeah. You know what I mean? The virtual inauguration with inauguration. It's like none the less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's, it's just in February. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. I'm like, it's literally a dream country. Yeah. It's a testament of how like, you know, how far things have come, you know. So that's that. I feel like that was very good. Yeah. Come on, don't. What do you feel like if anything that success has changed about the way that you write? I just understand it more from like, I understand it from the mechanics. Like, I feel like we all start from just a passion. Yeah. Right. We want to do it because we've heard it. There's, we have this visceral feeling that makes us certain words string together and certain motifs and themes. And oh, I want to write a song about this. Oh, I just have this happened in my life. Like literally two two seconds ago, you were like, like, I'm gonna go through hell, but it's gonna be my whole, my own hell. And I'm just like, wow, this guy can't stop writing songs. He talks in in lyric. And it's like, we have that. But then now knowing how to turn that into a linear conversation and have, you know, have the motifs, but not make it too, you know, poetic, you know, still make it conversational. Like, understanding what really makes a song and what really makes it hit. Like, and not just like the gut feeling of I like this, you know, I feel like that's changed over, over time, just understanding. And it's from working with, you know, like, like, one thing I love about how he writes is he understands how to make bars. And by bars, I mean, like, like, witty puns and, and, um, and similes and metaphors. But then he also knows, sometimes it's just a time to just say something that just really hits the heart. Just, just an emotional line, just a line that's just the truth. And knowing when to do that. And then how to dance around bars and in moments, but then also making it a conversation that when you read it down, it's just like, you're just talking to someone like that, that, that comes with, with, with just timing, repetition, you know, and working with good people. I think this, I think success has like, like the Batman utility belt just added another little, uh, notch for both of us to use whenever it's time for us to create. So it's like, oh, this worked on this person's song. Let's try to use this, this flavor on this. Yep. Oh, this, this heart string worked when we, when we pulled this heart string and said that thing in the way that we weren't supposed to. Let's attack this perspective in this way. Yeah. Actually, let's make a concept this about something that people aren't talking about right now. Yeah. Um, the Y is normally like my favorite part of the song. Like, and I felt like that was the most important part of the song. Yeah. But now, um, I still look at the Y writer and I love the Y, but I'm such a concept guy. Explain that for anybody who's trying to, to learn about the craft. So I love breaking down songs into who, what, where, when and why. Yeah. Her line. It should just be very simple. And in song structure, math, a lot of popular pop songs have the Y in the course. Yep. As the four in the course or, um, as the one, if it's going to be the main thing, uh, I love how Ed sharing gets to his Y. He's one of my favorites. Okay. If you can do it, if you can't do it, you can do it. Break down. I got an Ed Sheeran. So my favorite Ed Sheeran song to break down is this song called Happier. It's on the divide album. Yep. And the, the first line of the song is, uh, walking down 29th in park. So that's a, where? Yeah. It's a win. And it's what's going on. Yeah. I saw you in another's arms. That's a what in a who? Only a month we've been apart. That's a win and a what you look happier. So that's the song structure for the first four of that. Then he takes the same song structure and breaks it right down in the next section. Saw you walking inside a bar. Who, what, where's you going on? Like he said something to make you laugh. Who, what's going on? I saw that both your smiles were twice as white as ours. Yeah. You look happier. First off, his imagery is so tough. We're, it's sickening. Yeah. It's like I saw that both of your smiles were twice as white as ours. You look happier. So it's who, what's going on? The why still hasn't came? Why are we even talking about any of this? Yep. Ain't nobody hurt you like I hurt you. Beautiful thing to say. Just a what? Ain't nobody loved you like I do. Just a what? Yep. Um, promise that there's others that deserve you. Um, well, no, that's the second, second verse. I'm sorry. Um, promise that I will not take it personal. If you, if you're moving on with someone new, why? Because baby, you look happier. You do. My friends tell me one day I'll, I'll feel it too. And until the, until then I'll smile and hide the truth that I know I was happier with you. Stop playing with me. And share is the best. And when you break down the math of the song, you can just apply that same structure to whatever you're doing it. So if I'm writing a song about what we're doing right now, I'm like, Justin and Bongo, we're sitting going to couch and we're, we're doing the podcast and the song is, is about, uh, joy. Like, and why are we singing this song because we're trying to convey this message to somebody out there that needs the help. Like, I love concepts. I love finding where things are, but concepts are my favorite thing. Yeah. What? That like literally you breaking down the edge here and so on. I'm not kidding. Like made me emotional because I'm such a geek of the craft. Yes. That to see someone else that it's also such a loser. Like, I feel so bad for so many of my friends. There's this songwriter named Patty Larkin, singer-songwriter from Cape Cod. And I'm deeply obsessed with her. She's like a seven-year-old lesbian. And I just worship every single thing. She's written and I will like, since I was 17, break down the math of her songs. Yeah. To people who aren't even songwriters. Yeah, I do. It's the last favorite thing. It's just like, okay. Then I'm ready to understand every versus four lines. Yes. In the verse, she has a song called "I told him the dog wouldn't run." Please, come on, break it down. Yeah, come on, break it down. The dog wouldn't run as a fucking title. Yes. And in the third, every verse is four lines. In the third verse, she says, I asked him to marry me once. He told me he couldn't because this would be all that there was. Space. This would be all there was and there's no fourth line. and all that there would be is fucking nothing. - Nothing. (laughing) - Can you believe it? - I love my soul, I love a great soul. - And now that we say it, her and Ed Sheeran look a lot alike. - Yeah. - You know, just. (laughing) - Pasty lesbian. - Pasty lesbian. - Pasty lesbian. - Oh, that is so much. - Now when you're writing, okay, this is actually really good question. When you're writing, how are you of the math as it's happening or do you let it happen and then use the math to fix it? - If I'm writing by myself, it's lightning speed. - Yeah. - It's a math thing feeling at the same time. I hate to share with newer writers, like the daunting responsibility of the math because once you understand it, it doesn't go away. You can't feel yourself out of the math making the things that you would feel as correct incorrect if it's not done the right way. - Yeah, so. - I feel like it's like, I'm the fixie guy. - Yeah. - Like he's going in real time and I'm like, okay, no. - No. - This could be you. - Yeah, you know. - This could be this. - And then you take this to another place. - Like certain things in my head, like they say, they, him, she, they and them. - And they make a damn blockade me, you, us and we. - Yeah. - So knowing how, like, oh, if you're saying, I saw him walking down the street or I saw her, it's when someone hears that they're thinking, they're processing, they're talking, you're talking about it, someone else. You're not talking about me. - It's the other. - In conclusion. - In conclusion. - And when you say us or we or you, like you is one of the most grabbing words that you can say in a song and it grabs the listener. So, like, I'm listening for when we can do that or when that should be that instead of, 'cause he's just going rapid fire. - Yep. - So I'm like, I take the headphone and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, you, she, we, like, switch it. I just switch up the test and I put my headphones back on and then let them live his life. - Okay, so as I think I've worked with you, I know you're like, producer with the capital P, right? Then, so I think there's a difference between a beatmaker and an engineer and a producer. How do you find the balance to being, right, someone who's checking on someone's, what, what pronoun are you using? Let's make sure we're cutting right to the heart. Say you and said, that's a capital P producer. You're overseeing the entire emotional situation, but also you're an unbelievable beatmaker. So how do you find a way to balance the two duties that you have to handle in a session, right? 'Cause you also, you height people up so much, you bring so much positivity to a session, which is a really important part of being a producer. Now, me as a writer, I do a lot of like emotional producing, even though I literally can barely send an email. But how do you balance the different tasks that a producer has to handle? - Just understanding everybody like managing personalities. That's really where producing is. It's like, I like, I love playing and actually producing hands on like making beats, but really when you get to work with great people, when you get to work with a Justin Triner, you know what I'm saying? You're able to like step back and see the whole song as a step back and see it from 30,000 feet. So I like to see it from the ground floor and from 30,000 feet and it's just a passion. I think it comes from when I was talking about like I was, I loved Ferrell and Timberland. And these are people that I would see have their hand in every part of the song. So I feel like I understand the song from the bottom up. I started rapping when I was like eight years old and realized I couldn't rap to other people's beats. I had to make my own beats. So then I started making beats at 11. So I understand it from the position of how the song should feel. And I'm very much a texture guy. So I can like guide the texture, but then also that professional with me is like shape it. And then we know what it's supposed to feel like at the end. We know that line could have went harder. We know there needs to be a drop right there. We know that this word needs to do this. And so being able to like step back and look at it from 30,000 feet is what allows me to like do it. And then just, you know, the 10,000, 20,000 hours like this, like, were you always good with people? Is that like a natural skill since you were young? I want to say yeah. And then I actually have a batches of science and psychology. So I actually like understand a little bit like about like interpersonal communication, you know? And how people interact and how to best interact with different people. So how do you have a, you bastard's mask? - Yeah. - And then become a very successful producer. What's the journey from going, okay, was it, was the goal always music or how did that journey happen? - Yeah, since eight years old, but my parents said Nigerian. So that like there was no not going to college. It was like my father has a PhD in nuclear physics. And my mom has a master's in like business in the county. So there was no not going to school. But my brother, man, my brother taught me, showed me Stevie Wonder, the roots, you know, everything. Like he showed me everything, like that gave me a music. He had me playing in church. So he was the kind of like the foundation. And then he was the guy that told my parents, like, hey, you know, he's kind of good. You should, you know, let him cook, you know? But after I got my degree, I was like, man, yeah, I can't tell me anything. - And wow. And do you feel like, 'cause my degree is literally in songwriting, but part of me wishes that I would have like dug into something else. Don't regret my degree in songwriting, 'cause I learned all the math that worked out. - Look at this part. - What are you talking about? - At the non-disclose location. - But the-- - I put in the bottom of the screen non-disclose location. - But then it's so interesting to me to see, 'cause I've seen you in your room. You're so good with people. And I think a lot of people who are really good at the computer or instruments, a lot of times are not good with people. They're actually quite bad with people because they're so hyper-focused on making this sound good that they forget the other part of the job, which when I'm in sessions, I don't mind, 'cause I'm gonna handle a lot of the other part of the job, but a producer is supposed to be the one doing that. - Supposed to. - Supposed to. - Supposed to. Yeah, but like also like working with the people, like shout out to you or like Ernest, there's people that I work with that make everything, like to make everyone's life better in that moment and you have to be able to make space for those people and then make them feel like the rock star that they are. - Yeah. - So, and that's really producing. - Yeah. - It's not this. - Yeah. - Not this. - I couldn't agree more. Can you guys remember whether it's together or separately, probably separately, 'cause you both were on journeys before you met, but like the most, the scrappiest, the most insane hustle moment, the most like, I can't believe I did this to get my foot in the door moment. Whether it was a session, whether it was any sort of opportunity. - Foot in the door. - Or does any crazy story of trying to fucking make it happen? - I was sleeping on my home floor for a year and a half, I'll hear my shout out to my boy Scott and Ali for letting me live at their house out here in Apollywood. - Yeah. - No money at all. My rent payment was writing a song a day, so I had a place to stay. I wrote a song every single day and I wouldn't call it like the grimmiest, but it was definitely like, hey, do you want it? Like, 'cause the life you want is just a few nights on the floor away. - Wow. And what was the moment that that changed? When could you afford your own rent? What would happen? - So what happened was I met a bongo. (laughing) When I met bongo, bongo's like, "Yo, we gotta go to Jeremiah's house." And I'm like, "All right, cool." I tried to play cool, then I'm like, I was like, "Ah, Jeremiah's house, this is crazy." - So we go to Jeremiah's house. And we're working on songs and nonstop. At this time, Kanye is working with Jeremiah and Jeremiah goes down to a Wyoming. And he plays him a song that we were all working on that Jeremiah hadn't sang at the time. He had let me have the demo. So when the song comes out, the Jeremiah version that he recorded a little later, 'cause it's like, you know, he wrote the song with us. - Yeah. - He was just like, yo, the version that Kanye heard was your version, so you got it. And my entire career was birthed off of that moment because Jeremiah was gracious enough to like, not only let people know what I did, but stand up for me behind the scenes. Like, he's calling people and going, like, yo, now this is Aunt and Bongo and Scott, like, they're the ones that work on the song, like, make sure to dig it, they credit and stuff, right? And he didn't have to do none of that. - Wow. - So from that moment, like, the song, "All Mine With Tidal Assign" and "Yay" on the "Yay" album, literally saved me from sleeping on a floor. - Fuck, yeah. - You were sleeping on a floor. And then you're not only co-wrote. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, he's on. Yeah, yeah, that was that one of our first that's our first joint joint. No, we could know because we had the DCF song with a game game YG and Jeremiah ties and then we did the song with nip with game. Yeah, wow I mean that's It's an amazing and a very inspiring story of like I think mine was probably like way way early is probably like This is in college because I'm like. I'm still one of those like people that like Intern at a studio like, you know, I feel like people like skip a lot of steps now. Mm-hmm rightfully so, but yeah, if you can skip a good for you Remember being a music house in Atlanta like this is in college. I would like go to Atlanta to meet up with my cousin Shadow C4 and Drew Castro I would go to you know, we'll be out there like making P.F. Chang runs and cleaning toilets and stuff like that But it turned into like one day Drew was like, you know I sent him something of a beat and he played it for the cray and then ended up making it on till the craze album gravity And then I'm on a like a car dealership lot like Selling just sitting selling cars and he calls me one day. He's like, oh bro. We're nominated for Grammy And I'm like, yeah, all right, whatever. I'm about to go sell these cars I mean, I just get off the phone, but then months later like it actually turned out that that was the catalyst to like We we wanted to grant me by the way shout out the craic And that was like it's like I'm usually I feel like people work for a long time before they get that level of recognition Yeah, but to be like so far removed and To have that it was like okay now I have to like drop everything and move to LA like and that's literally what happened Like after that the next year I moved right up to burp. I was in Burbank. Yeah, like next year I was like I didn't I've never visited never been to California never been this far out I was just like, oh, it's time, but without that moment. I wouldn't be here That's amazing that it's also those those moments of like I think all three of us those moments of like there's these Signifiers of success. That's how weird the music is this but we're still broke as fuck When I I had three number ones and I was still living in a two bedroom house with six people Cuz the money hadn't shown up yet. Yeah, yeah, it's it's We all you know loving music is like such a blessing and such a curse All by myself. It's so beautiful here. It's a lot of delayed gratification. It is, but I think it's nice cuz it keeps you I I just thought I was still broke like four years into success, which I think is helpful because then you don't blow What are things that you guys say no to now that you would have said yes to a Couple years to go everything Which camera's mine which were my that one. He said don't call me. I say no to everything. Yeah I'm I had a hard time saying no my entire life. Yeah, I was addicted to the word. Yes Yeah, and now no is one of my favorite words How so when you say no, how do you not obsess over the no again? I'm asking for advice. I'm not I truly feel like I'm like the Lord that created me that created This amazing opportunity is going to create a better one for me if it's for me like what is made for me what is meant for me is for me So like I don't lose sleep over anything that could have been perceived as a blessing that didn't get okay It was it wasn't for me Truly and how does because because you weren't always that way how did you actually come to that level of peace? I have always been this way really my parents didn't teach me lack Like when you when you said yes to people it was just because you were before I want to hurt their feelings I was I'm genuinely nice. So it's like okay. Got it the no and before it wasn't like a self-empowering nose more just like I Don't want you to look at me as as the bad guy. So yeah to everything yes to a nighttime session yes to eight sessions in a day Yes to We can't pay you for this but still come yeah, that's to pull up yes to everything okay, and then I took a cold hard look like a life Life situation happened to 2022 that was crazy, okay, and showed me exactly who my real family was and my real people were and I never had a problem saying no to any of my family or friends bongo never had a problem yo yo you don't know Yeah, he knows me to the point where it's like you know, bro. I know you don't want to do this kind of third but Because like I don't have to put on a facade for my family So then I realized that I was overexerting myself for people that I wouldn't even give my last dollar to That wouldn't do the same for me in reverse not that it was a like No, it's no protects me from me. No keeps me where I need to be whoa So, okay, I love that. No, I'm gonna start texting you No could be not right now you could just not not right now could be the first little cool way to getting it saying no But like I think I can get right now Not right now. I think that's a baby step for me I can handle it. Okay, that's very that's very Very helpful. How about for you bongo is there is there things that you say no to now that you didn't use to yeah, but for me is it's like a Bandwidth thing right like you just you can't see you have to Yeah, cuz I like to take on a lot of things and I feel like I can do everything. Yeah, like I just feel like I can do everything Yeah, but I have to like take a reality check and then like my family is across the country in DC So I have to be there after see my mom my dad my nephews my brother my sister and I'm everybody they're all over there. So Balancing like that's really what makes me just to say no gotcha because like I do like to like, you know This might be something. Yeah, let's try. Let's do a day. Yeah, you know or or not like but if that's really what it is I have to take time for me and like even like like you know like we'll look it up and play basketball like you know And that's something that like we've implemented Because it's like you have to take time for life. Yeah, so like no, I can't do it a session at 11.30, but I will do Justin Trinon's podcast What do you guys think what are things about the industry that you feel like Artists writers producers whoever it is need to unlearn what are like industry standards that you think are like hurting all of us Hmm, I think labels should pay songwriters Say that I think that yeah, that I mean, I would I could just leave it right. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that you don't need to. Yeah, I learn It costs a lot of money for your song to be on the radio Like and just understanding it. So it's not necessarily The best quality song. It's not the best thing you've ever done It's understanding that that song has a radio marketing budget. That's behind it and people are spending Upwards of 50 to 250,000 dollars on that one song just to watch you go up a billboard chart Mm-hmm. So just because your favorite song or the song that you worked on has in gain the traction or got in the accolades yet It's not because it's not good It may be because it doesn't have any money behind it. Love that. Yeah, that is very helpful information for people trying to get into this Beautiful shit show that we all are a part of what do you feel like music Is missing what do you wish as we're amazing collaborators that like you're like you wish you could get more artists or more Late more an ours or like more people to go on this type of journey with you creatively artist development Absolutely, okay, explain that for for the for the friends at home who might know all time is Michael Jackson And he went through artist development before he ever got to Motown right his father developed his amazing kids With methods that you can't normally practice in 2026 Just knowing how to interview how to stand how to walk how to talk as a performer how to Perform a song how to hold a microphone how to dance and sing and perform long periods of time and not lose your breath Yeah, it's an amazing a credit to like the the heart heart work It takes to run on a treadmill and be able to perform in high heels like It's it's ridiculous. So as she went through an immense amount of artist development from her father and from the Amazing group Justin's child that she was in so I think in today's world where it's beautiful Having the the opportunity to get on the internet and show the process while you're learning I wish the one the people that say I want to be an artist could actually go through the - Bootcamp is development, bootcamp, from the people that came out of it, I'm very successful. - One of you look at so many of the artists that have broken recently, it takes 10 years. And part of that is just building your families, but the other part of that is developing, growing. What is my vision? How do I make the visual match the music? How do I make my songs better? And a lot of times are because our industry can be so short-sighted, when these artists blow up, it's their second or third record deal. So the labels that spotted their talent way early on don't actually benefit from spotting that talent because they give up on them, 'cause they're not letting them develop properly. The stories are absolutely endless. And my personal stories of writers, my band was signed to Warner Chapel, and the people that ran Warner Chapel when we were signed as the band all got let go. And Big John took it over. And they were in like a meeting, like who were we dropping meeting? And everyone said, "Oh, well, my band was called Stony Patches Weapons." Stony Patches Weapons, you know, "Interscope dropped them, it's done." And John luckily had heard through Tricky Stewart, Tricky Stewart saved my life, and one, I love him deeply, but two, literally saved my life. He let Big John know in some random conversation, "Oh, the lead singer Stony Patches Weapons is a writer, writer." So John was like, "Well, why would we drop, "we already paid all this money a couple of years ago, "but we paid the money, why would we drop, "someone should go hang out with the lead singer "before we drop them." And that is why I have this entire career. But it's rare that someone is as smart as John, there's the reason why John is successful as he is. And it, but normally they would have dropped me, and I either would have had to fight my way to a new pub deal, or I would have just been fucked. And so the artist development is not only important to make the artist better, but it's also really dumb that labels don't let it grow. - Right, no. - Because then they don't even benefit from the people they signed. - I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie though, it's just two sides to the coin, because I feel like some artists in this climate that we're at, like they don't, like the artists don't necessarily appreciate the development process, like they just wanna go. They're not thinking, sometimes they're not thinking of it. - Right. - Let me actually make this project cohesive. Let me make this song title go with this next song title, and then when you listen to the album from top to bottom, it loops back perfectly. And then this transition is gonna put all this, all this cohesion, like that, and I wanna build a world for people to fall into. Some people are more concerned with just the songs, and they don't understand the way I should say some artists. So it's on both sides too, like artists have to want that. - When a lot of times getting dropped is what motivates people to reinvent and to dig deeper so they can prove somebody wrong. So they can survive, so they can have their art reach the world. So you're right, it is a complicated question, but it does all come back to like, we have to root for artist development. - It's missing. - It's missing, and on all sides of it. But yeah, I mean, the reason I started writing for other people was because after being dropped from my fourth record deal, I was like, I've got to reinvent somehow. I stupidly never thought to reinvent my band, but luckily, I was like, oh, I'll just reinvent myself and become a songwriter for other people, but it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't dropped. So it is a-- - Catalyst. - It is a tough, it's like a chicken or egg situation of like should the labels stick longer, but maybe if it's not the right fit, then it's pointless to stick around. Okay, to end every episode, we play a game called gag or drag. Gag means you love it, drag means you hate it. Okay, and you can also say meh, if you really don't care about the question. That's acceptable as well. - Okay. - Gag or drag songs that sound slightly unfinished? - Drag. - I was a producer. - I knew it, I knew it, I literally knew it. I literally knew it. - I see, I can see where you're going with it. - You got to answer what he said to say, though. - You like. - Yeah, I feel like that one. - That one, yeah. - Right, 'cause maybe it's unfinished intentionally. - Yes. - Well, yeah, sometimes that's just more. Their songs, like, I mean, shout out Jasmine Sullivan, I heard the record that I did with them. Girl, like me, there was like, I had drums and strings, but then we ended up stripping it back to just guitar and bass, 'cause less is more, and it sounds like the demo, but more polished, obviously, but they're singing. So yeah, sometimes less is more, so I'm interested in hearing what the baby of it, yeah. - And how did it feel when they were like, no, strip it back, where you like, fully on board or are you like, oh fuck. - Oh my God, fully on board, do you know how it was singing? - That's a very good way. - Yeah, yeah, he says you gotta get up the way. - Yeah. Gag or drag lights off in the studio. - Drag. - I hate it too. I can't fucking see. Turn the fucking lights off. - I don't know. I did lights off. - It's a man for you. - I don't, yes, it's not like, I never forget that I'm like, I want light, I want, I'm gonna fall asleep. - That's, yeah. - It's the, it don't matter to me. I'm here for a service, if I never lose sight of that. - Well, if the artist wants the fucking lights off, the lights are off, of course, and I'm not saying, oh, I love it, dark. - Oh my God, this is great. - It's the most, it's not gonna change my beat. - I've never got a door. - She's gonna hit hard either way. - I recently was in the studio with like an icon of a pop star, but songs not out yet, so I'm not gonna say who, 'cause I don't wanna get in trouble. But the pop star's assistant walked in to the studio, and it was pitch black, and the assistant was like, what the fuck are you guys doing? I was like, nothing. I pray, everything is totally normal in here. She just wanted the fucking lights off. Gag or drag, writing sessions that become therapy sessions. - It's a gag, because even though it can be annoying, you're like, the song's gonna be a hit. Or at least-- - I can't stand it. I can't stand it. It's the best part of writing songs. It's like, I didn't even expect this today. Like, you know, this conversation, you came here expecting to have like a good combo, but you didn't expect, oh, wow. My soul got fed in this moment. So, yeah. - Steeper them rap. - Yeah. - Oh, it's a gag. - There you go. - Yeah. - I know the answer to this, because I, well, I know my answer to this is there's 100% of gag, 'cause I love it deeply. Gospel chords in popular music. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah. - The fucking band. - All of you. - It's the best. - Doesn't get any better. - Gag or drag, making something sound grimy on purpose. - Yeah, yeah, the best. Gag or drag, the phrase less is more. - Gag, I like that. That's, I live by that, like, 'cause sometimes, I mean, I went through the phase of doing the most, and now, like, I'm not about the beat. I make the beat, but it's about the song. - Yeah. - I'm stupid back. - I'm stupid back. - I'm stupid back. - I mean, less is more, I think that's what she said. (laughing) But I'm like, why would she ever say that? Like, so it's like, (laughing) - How did we get here? - We're talking about songs. (laughing) - Less is absolutely more, a lot of it's not I agree with my brother. - Yeah. Now, how did you, normally this is the rapid fire part, but that answer, I love your answer a lot. How did you get as someone who is such a fucking unbelievable beat maker? How do you get to the place where like, I don't, sure, I want the beat to be as good as it needs to be, but how do you get to the place where you're like, it's not fucking about that. - I see the whole thing altogether, but sometimes having an amazing beat is cool, but if the song isn't good, then it's like, what are we talking about? So that also lets you know the importance of the song writing, and when you realize how other people digest music, like some people like songs, just because it relates, because they can see themselves in the song. So it lets me know, I'm just paying the canvas around the song. - Yeah. - And then sometimes that's gonna take some, sometimes when you're gonna have to put your balls on the table and do some crazy, but don't get in the way of the song. - Yeah. - Don't get in the way of the why, because that's gonna inform people why they're even playing the song, and I'm not gonna be, (laughing) just 'cause I think it's cool, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, but I will if it is. (laughing) - For the right vibe, 100%. If you could give your younger selves one piece of advice about being a better collaborator, specifically collaboration. Not a better writer, not a better musician, not a better producer, a better collaborator. What would you tell yourself? - My younger self? - Uh-huh. - Something you've learned that you wish you could cheat code yourself earlier. - I'm conflicted. - We'll say in both then. - 'Cause I would say you don't have to do everything, everything yourself. But I think because of coming from the perspective of thinking I had to do everything myself, that made me a better all around. But the truth is you don't have to do everything yourself. - Yeah. - You know, so that's what I would tell myself, but I would have to explain it in a way, right? (laughing) - You have to be very nuanced with your stuff. - It's like do it, but you don't, do it. - Yeah, yeah. - I just tell my little self that it's way more fun with more people than just by itself. - Yeah. - Like it's like the more, you'll have more fun doing the thing that you love to do with other people that love to do it just as much as you do. - Yeah. - And I wouldn't tell them me to change anything in like between now and then, but I would just highlight how cool it is to be in a room with someone who is one person away from the person you always want to be with and then you find out that that's really the person you want to be in a room with. - Yeah. - I grew up, not grew up in music, like songwriting grow up. I grew up learning how to songwrite by listening to Frank Ocean songs. And then through listening to Frank Sinistage of Ultra, I found out who James Fondler was. And I was like, oh my god, I'm the biggest James Fondler with James Fondler in the world. And by the grace of God, like working and working and working, like I'm working with James now. So now, someone that I found through somebody I loved to somebody that is a friend of mine. - Yeah. - And a mentor. - Yeah, it's, I always have to be like, when people ask for advice, you have to fucking co-write. - Yes. - Do 10 co-writes, and if you still hate it, that's fine. But until you do 10 co-writes, you don't know what, you can't, you don't know what songwriting is. 'Cause what you can learn about yourself from watching somebody else be great is so special. - Thanks. - So special. - A couple of my favorite co-writers. - You better? - Amy Witch. Oh my gosh. - She's a genius. - You know what I'm saying. - Was an Ed Sheeran super fan. You must freak out when you're right with Amy. - Oh, we did this song on Ed Sheeran's, I forgot the name, I don't think it's a track, but it's called "Visiting Gowers." And we all worked on that song. Amy is my fairy godmother. I love her. - She's amazing. - Edo is one of my favorite co-writers. My brother Bongo. He is one of my favorite co-writers. Her is one of my favorite co-writers. - Yeah. - I love working with her. It's so many, Michael Pollock. - The genius. - He has fun working with Michael Pollock. He is his friendliness and just sincerity. - Yeah. - It comes across in just all everything that he does. - Yeah. - But it's so many. I'm forgetting a whole bunch of people, but like, Jazzy, that's my sister. - Yeah, that's my sister. - I love Michael Pollock. - Oh yeah, that's my sister. (laughing) Shout out Jazzy. Definitely, man, Jules Love. We were just in the desert with Lucky Day. He's also okay. That's where my voice is messed up like this, by the way. Thank you for bearing with me. But yeah, Lucky Anderson, man, his pen and his approach is crazy. - Oh, insane. - Just crazy. Jesse Raya's, she's a gold in-- - Unbelievable writer. - Gold in, gold in, knee shirt, knee shirt. The best, every Milano. - Yeah, Daniel Church, I said that one. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Longer logs. - What's the moment? Okay, for real last question. What's the moment that happened in a session we're writing with somebody that you were like, "Oh, I'm never gonna forget this." And I'm gonna try to use what this person just accidentally taught me by writing with me. I'm gonna try to use this forever. - Jeremiah. - Tell me what would happen. - Jeremiah, his, he's one of the greatest writers of our class, and our time, and people don't give him as much credit as he deserves. His approach, not only do you like realize, like he approaches things percussively, but em melodically at the same time. And then he pushes you to say things a little bit of on guard. And something like, it sounds like something that is familiar to the ear, but to change some words around it. And that, and then his approach to just like, nah, like, he won't accept something that's just like, cool, he has to push the fresh. - Yeah, cool. - Pushes the envelope, yeah. He's, yeah, I owe a lot to him, just like, learning, and a lot of my, even when I approach records sometimes, like, on melodically think of what he would do. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Biggie back and off of that, I'll give you three. - I love it, let's go. - Off with, off with, is definitely Jeremiah. I'm gonna go Tidalassine. - What, what have you learned from Ty? - So much. Ty does not need anyone to do anything, period. So Tidalassine's taught me self-sufficiency to the max. 'Cause when I work with Ty, I'm back to being ant in Hillcrest and Pinsalkin, recorded myself. - Yeah. - On my computer, like, back up old tools, Ray Lobster, and it's like, although I'm used to working with an engineer and I love working with engineers, that's my favorite part of writing. It's not having to do that part. It's like, oh wow, I do have to record myself. I do have to come up with the chords and do all the things I used to before. I got to the space where I was just receiving packs and receiving opportunities where the engineer was always there. - Yep. - James Fauntleroy, I've learned so much from. Not only the music, but past the creation of music, the importance of understanding the business, like we're in the music business. So a lot of people that make the music don't understand that we're in the business. - Yep. - And without the business, you should and just be making the music. Because I can't sit in a studio that I'm not paying for if no money's coming in. - Right. - It's like, so understanding the music in the business. - Yeah. - And the last in that, so it's Jeremiah, it's Ty, it's James, and John Belian. - Hmm. - Like John Belian, also self-sufficient, I learned from afar that you don't have to compromise your core values to do the thing that you want to do. And from John, it's like, I watched him have the world as just a fan. It's like, oh, he could have did anything he wanted. And he made his family his most important thing. - Yep. - He made what he was doing in New York, his most important thing. And he was like, hey, the people that want to come are gonna come to me. - And not even New York City. - Yeah, no, not New York City. Like New York State. - Yeah, like if you want to work with him, you're going to him. - It's a long way to long Island. - So. - Yeah, I didn't go. (laughing) - I would, and I loved it. - I think I'm too gay for Long Island. And I'm just, I'm gonna have him skip this one. - I'm gonna skip this one at night. (laughing) - That is true. It is watching him prioritize his life that seriously is very inspiring. - Yeah. - I just moved my parents to LA. - Come on. - That's the dream. - Congratulations. - Thank you. Thank you. You guys were awesome. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Round of applause for Ann Mungo. (clapping) - Thank you for having us, Ralph. - No, thank you so much. - We're coming. - Watch "Unfamous" on Spotify. Subscribe for no ads. I'll see you there.