Body Language Course - Andrew Tate

Hey, welcome back to the Out of Podcast series. It's Dave with you. A little different. We're doing the shared mic sessions. What is this? Okay, well, I get to go on podcast as a guest and it's so much fun that I want to share these episodes with you because some of these have been allowable and you probably have never heard me as a guest. You hear me as a host here all the time. You're like, well, what if Dave was a guest? What would that sound like? Well, this is me on a podcast and I wanted to share with you. As part of our daily episodes in 2026, it's a chance to hear me on another show. I hope you're ready for this. Are you? Okay, so John is the host of podcast business insider and he's a Canadian, which is great. And I'm a Canadian, which is also great. And he had me on a show while back to talk about podcasting and we kind of talked about my journey and we covered a lot of stuff that we cover here on the show, but from his perspective, from his lens as a host. And again, I love being a guest on podcasts because I get to talk about things that I don't normally think about talking about on my own. So as a guest on a podcast, I think it's a great idea for you to go on and be a guest because again, like you're going to create as the host, you're going to create stuff that's in your mind and what you're working on, but you don't really think of it from someone else's perspective. So by being a guest, you get asked questions, you're like, "Hey, I never really talk about this for often." And that's the case here with John on podcast business insider. So here's the episode. I'll share with you. It's part of our shared Mike series and I hope you enjoy and I'll catch up with you at the end. Here we go. Here's Dave on another podcast. Here we go. All right, Rebels. Today we're diving into the truth behind what actually makes a podcaster succeed and what makes so many quit before they even get momentum. My guest, David Campbell, is a veteran creator from here, right here in Ontario, host of nine podcasts, a musician, community builder, and a storyteller who's been chased by a moose, lived through tornadoes and built connections with creators all around the world. In this conversation, we go deep into trendy tactics, but into real foundations, why beginners burn out, how to build a community that actually cares, why consistency beats perfection, and how podcasting can unlock opportunities you never saw coming. If you're a podcaster who's tried of comparing yourself to Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, or the other big names, if you're ready to start to grow and avoid burnout, this episode is your roadmap. Let's get into it. Long live the rebellion. David is one of those guests you could talk to for hours, a musician, storyteller, podcaster, and self-described collector of people. The man has been chased by a moose, lived through three tornadoes, and still somehow has the comedic timing to make you laugh through half of it. He hosts nine podcasts, builds communities, and uses story as his weapon of choice. Ladies and gents, this is going to be a lot of fun. David, welcome to the show. Hey, okay, yeah, all right. I'm in the right spot. Thank you for that. That's great. Get to be here. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. So chased by a moose. Okay, we need the story on that. Everybody's been chased by a moose. Like that's normal, isn't it? No, no, okay, Toronto. We have no moose. Well, yeah. Yeah, well, I grew up in a small town in northern Ontario. Back in the day, we had paper maps. I don't know. People may not know what that is. In Ontario, our paper map was double-sided. So you'd have one side and then you flip it over, and there's more of Ontario, which was the north. I was on the other side of the map, which was always fun. And yeah, anyway, so I grew up in a small town. It feels like a setup for a joke. And I was out riding my bike one day, and we just kind of came down the street. There was like 500 people in my town. Super small. Turn the corner, and there's like four cars on the side of the road, which is a, like a definite traffic jam in a town of 500 people. And everyone's waving at me. And I'm like, what is like a parade? I was wondering why they're waving. And as I turn the corner, there's this female moose who is like, I'm a kid in high school. This thing is humongous, and it's just staring at me. And you know, I'm like less than 10 feet away from it. So I start backing up, and it starts to walk towards me. A walk turns into a light gallop, a light gallop turns into a full-on run, and Dave's like going full speed on his bike as fast as I can. And this moose is on full gallop right behind me. I don't know why I liked me, but it decided to pick me that day. I did get away thankfully, because I'm here. I made it. But up there, we used to call moose swamp donkeys. I don't know if you know that. They're not the smartest animals in the world. But yeah, I was able to evade being accosted by a moose. So there you go. Yeah, like I said, like here in Southern Ontario, we don't have too many moose. We have a lot of deer. I mean, driving down the QEW, it's like you either came close to hitting one on the QE or you've hit one. And hitting a deer is pretty disastrous to your car. Right. Yeah, moose are the height of your windshield. So you usually take out their legs and then they'll fall onto your car and you're done. That's not popular on there anyways. So yeah, there you go. So don't get chased by moose. Just go do it. Yeah. You also host nine podcasts. What drives somebody to pick up the mic that much? I love, like we talked about at the beginning. Thank you for the intro. That was nice. I am on a mission to collect people and podcasting allows me to do that. It's a great opportunity to meet people around the world. There's weeks where I'm in the Czech Republic and then I'm down to to New Zealand. I'm over in Israel, Italy, US, Canada. I'm all over the place. And that's in one week. And it's just amazing who you get to connect with through podcasting. I know across all of my different shows, I get the opportunity to talk to a variety of people. So I'm not just talking about one thing. I'm jumping from this topic to that topic show to show just amazing to do all that. So connecting with people I think has been the joy in all of this. I like solo episodes, but I love spending time with people. So yeah, that's my joy. That's great. I totally agree with that. I totally got why I got back into podcasting is because I missed that connection between yourself, your audience and great guests like you. Yeah, it's fun. You learn a lot. You learn a lot. Yeah. You're asking these people, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This next question is something that I have been working on because I know that I have been missing this piece quite a bit with not just here, podcasters, business insider, but also with my old podcast, the fitness oracle storytelling. It's the one thing that I think most podcasters completely miss. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I think between storytelling and improv, those two pieces together, being able to think on your feet, bring people along on a journey, as you tell stories. It's one thing to rattle off four ways to be a better you, but if you can throw some stories in there about your journey where people are like, wait, I see myself in you in that story. I think those are the opportunities that we can have where the audience gets to lean in and feel like they're part of the story. That's, I really admire that. And then as a musician, we do that in music where people feel connected with the song and the lyrics. That's another whole element to it. So I see a parallel between my music background and my podcasting background. Those two things really work together. Very cool. I have fallen into this trap many time. Well, when I started the fitness oracle, I tried not to fall into this trap with podcasters, business insider, but a lot of beginner podcasters, they during the early stages, they over complicate things. They want things to be perfect. Everything's got to look neat and tidy like it's been on the Joe Rogan show for like 10 years. It's like, it's not going to happen. Why do you think most podcasters do do stuff like that? I don't think we want to put out junk. I think we want to show up and do our best. And the bar is pretty high, right? With these amazing celebrity podcasters that come into the space with all of their background, all of their knowledge, Joe Rogan's been doing media forever. I remember him back on Fear Factor, and he's been eating spiders and stuff. He's been around forever, and he has that leverage. He has that history to draw from. And you and I starting out maybe from scratch with zero audience. We're not starting at the same spot. So that's pretty hard to compare yourself to somebody like that. And for me, I just, I see it as an opportunity to, to build in public. So all of my shows that I've created over the past few years, I just build in public. I, I have enough knowledge to get going. And I don't get caught up in a learning trap where I just learn about podcasting and I never execute. I want to execute. I want to move forward. And I learn more by doing than another course, another conference, another book, another podcast about podcasting and never act and never get the mic out and hit record and see what happens. Record, get feedback, improve, continue, repeat. And that's how you're going to grow as a podcasting. I, I think it's more on the lines. I agree with you. I do really agree with you. But I think it's more on the line as, you know, it's not fair to compare yourself to the Tucker Carlson's to the Joe Rogan's to the Patrick Betts David's. It's not fair for somebody like me who nobody knows to compare myself with those big boys. But they're the standard that everybody's trying to reach. Is there something that you can tell people to, you know, all rain, whole back the rains, just a little bit on your expectations of your show? Right. Let's go back to my music stuff. So when I see an amazing guitar player at Ivan Haaland, when I see Eddie Van Haaland in concert in Toronto, when he was here with us, I have two responses. I can either be, well, screw this. I, I'm suck at guitar because look at him like he's, he's Eddie Van Haaland. I can't do that. So I'm going to go home and sell my guitars and just chuck it and forget it because there's no way I could ever be like him. Or I could say, you know what? If he can do that, he's got the same number of fingers that I do. So if he can do it, I can do something better. If I practiced, he spends all of his time playing. I spend an hour a week. So how am I supposed to compare to him? So if I can then be motivated to do more and invest in myself and learn and become a student, I could improve. I have a choice of giving up or getting better when I see somebody who's way better with way more expertise than I have. That's kind of my response. So when I hear from podcasting, when I come across a podcast or that's just amazing. Create interviewer. They got a big team. They're making lots of money. All these things. I can either give up and go, well, screw this. There's no way I could ever do what they do. Or I can say, well, if they can do it, then I can do a little bit better than I'm doing today. And if I can do that and build over time, then maybe, maybe there's a chance for me. I think you said the keyword right there over time. Like a lot of podcasters, myself included, I'm not exempt in this. We get into this industry, content creation, podcasting, and we think we're going to post our first episode. We're going to get millions of views, hundreds of thousands of subscribers. And it's like, that's not true. Like, let's go back a little bit with the Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan's been doing media since like forever. He's been doing stand-up comedy since forever. Tucker Carlson started with CNN and then moved to Fox News where he built his reputation. That happened over decades. It didn't happen overnight. And it's hard. It's hard because you see that. You see the end line. I had this conversation with some other friend last night. You see the end game. And you're like, I want to be there now. Like right now. I want the, you know, six figure months and constant six figure months. And that's the hardest part. Right. Right. I had somebody get in my car with me talking about stories. He's in my car with me. And he sits beside me in the pastor scene. I'm driving. And he looks over and he's like, Oh, this is a manual transmission. He looks at me. You know how to drive this thing. And I'm like, well, I've been driving standard manual transmission since I was 16. I'm considerably older than 16 at this point. And for me, I don't even think about it. I just drive for him. He's like looking at, he's like, you got three pedals and two feet. He's like trying to watch. He's like learning. He's looking at me. He's like, so smooth. And to me, it's like I driving my car. I don't even think about it anymore because it's muscle memory. It's been done so much. Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, it's muscle memory. They just, they've done it so much. And so often that for them, it's like hardly even, it's effortless for them. It seems like, but go back to their beginning, compare their beginning to your beginning, you might actually be further ahead than they were when they started because we have more information, more knowledge, more podcast about podcasting, more support, more tools than any of those people had when they first started. So you compare yourself to Mr. Beast. Watch his first video and watch your first video. I'm pretty sure it's better than his was. So if you do that comparison, that's a little bit better than comparing somebody's highlight reel to your Monday morning. That's not fair. Yeah. You creators, how should they start? What's your recommendation to for new creators to start? Should they do solo, solo casts, co-hosted or interview formats like I'm doing right now? I think a lot of it depends on the person to be going on us because for me, all of my shows are different. Summer co-hosted, summer solo, summer interviews. They're all different summer storytelling. So I kind of do the reason why I have so many is because I want to try all the different types. So for someone listening to this and watching, they're like, where should I start? What would interest you? Do you like talking to people or are you more reserved and quiet and you like to just share your thoughts and like a journal for that? Solo episodes might be your thing. If you feed off of people and you love connecting with people and hearing stories, then maybe an interview. Maybe you want a co-host or you want to bounce off somebody and do this together in an equal format instead of having a guest. Then co-hosting might be your thing. My biggest thing for everybody is I think you should start slow. I think you should even though you want to get to the finish line. I think a soft launch to your show is probably one of the most stress free ways of starting a podcast. So I'm helping a guy right now in the UK. This is the Milton. We're doing a soft launch of his show. So the last week we can have he's recorded a few episodes. We got him all set up on all the players. He's told nobody, maybe his friends and family is closest friends, but he hasn't promoted this new show at all. He's already at 50 downloads with three episodes and he's having the time of his life. We know he's on Spotify. He's on all the players. Everything works. He's got everything running. He's getting he's in routine. He's got content. He's got a routine and all the platforms are ready. Now he's just going to go out and tell his audience that his podcast is live because we've already made sure everything works instead of just running into it and hoping for the best. He's soft launch is like a restaurant where you make pizza. You invite people in and say, "Please try my pizza." And people go, "This is terrible pizza." Well, before you open the store and try to sell terrible pizza, you should fix a recipe. So you get feedback from people you get. People comment on what you make, how you can make it better, and then you launch. So a soft launch. Super easy as far as starting and starting in a way that seems. That is going to continue past 10 episodes. That's my goal with Milton. I like that. The soft launches. That's basically what we did with here. Podcasts Business Insider. I just told three or four friends. And then it's just like, "Oh, I launched like three weeks ago. It's like here. Here's the link." But do you think it's a good idea for a podcast shirt to, like for example, you said something there to do the thing that you feel most comfortable with? Do you think it's important for a podcast shirt to be able to step out of their comfort zone? Like, if they don't feel comfortable talking to somebody, do an interview. And one of my good friends, Chris Cramitz, who's down in Tampa actually has a book called Start Ugly. And some of that, a lot of that book says, basically, step into your fear. Get comfortable in your fear. Challenge yourself. Grow. You're going to start ugly. And nothing's going to look pretty when you first start. But over time, you will develop a good speaking, interviewing your start to feel more comfortable. Do you think it's a good idea for podcasters to challenge themselves that way? As long as they don't set themselves up for failure. So if I don't meet this target that I'm putting in front of me, I'm going to start. I'm going to do this big thing. But it's bigger than me in the moment to the point where if I don't hit that target, I'm going to quit. Right. So suffered for a lot of people starting a podcast. Just. talking on a microphone, whether there's somebody else on the screen or not, is the big thing. If I can get past talking to myself on a microphone and learning how to use all this stuff, then that might be the big thing. And I think that we might, we sometimes we might overextend ourselves possibly, but I do love challenging myself. Again, that's why I have nine podcasts. I want to do more than what's normal. And I'm doing 10 to 12 episodes a week across my nine shows. Wow, it's a lot. So it's and I'm interviewing over about 10 to 12 people as well every week. So that and I still have a job as well. This is on my days off. So I'm overextending myself to your point. But as I'm doing that I'm growing, I'm I'm putting up more content and the more content I put out, the more inspired I am. It's just this big balloon that keeps getting bigger and bigger. Hopefully it never explodes, but it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And that's my version of overextending myself and putting a big goal out there. But you need to figure out what that is for you. And I wouldn't want somebody to say, well, if I started a podcast, I got to start in the nine shows. No, that's that's not even close to what you need to do, right? So there's there's a sliding scale there somewhere where for you, it just might be talking in a microphone. Great. But again, to your point as well, John, there should be there should be something else you're shooting for all the time. Yeah, like my biggest thing used to be listening to myself. I hated it. I hated listening to my recorded voice. Why? But I have, but I have my time. Why? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was the, maybe it was my past and my past struggles with depression and my own perception of myself. I just hated it. And then I just started the fitness oracle in 2020. And I just forked forcing myself to listen to myself listen to myself. Because I had to edit my episodes. So you have to listen to it. But like you said, like I got over it. Now my biggest thing is public speaking. That's why I enrolled myself in toast masters two months ago. Toastmasters plus podcasting. What a great combo. That's a great combo. I had somebody John reach out to me, which is interesting because I also struggle with my voice. And when I first started, I'm like, who's going to listen to me? Why would anybody care about me? And I had somebody reach out to me. It was really interesting. They said, Dave, I listen to your show. I listen to your How to Podcast series. But I'm never going to start a podcast. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. They said, I don't listen to you for your content. And I put a lot of work into this, John. I put a lot of effort into my show. They said, I listen to you because of your voice. You show up every week. Actually, that shows three times a week. You show up for me on a regular basis. And you're my companion. And you could talk about anything. I listen to you talk about podcasting, but I'll never have a podcast. That's not what I want to do. But I connect with you. And you keep me company. And I love your voice. And I had to hear that, John, because like many people, the idea of hearing myself recorded over the internet for anybody to comment on. Right? I was nervous because I didn't, I didn't feel like my voice had meaning when I first started. But to get that kind of feedback from a listener, come on. That's, that's really, that's really good. Like, um, honestly, I don't have any come, I don't have any connection with my listeners. I have 24 subscribers on YouTube. I know maybe eight of them because they're friends and family. And it kind of leads into my into the next segment, which is like, you know, building the community because that's what podcasters really do. We build communities and we nurture that those communities. One of the books that you have in your background, fans first, I haven't, I haven't read it, but it just, it stood out to me like a, like a sore thumb. And I'm like, okay, I have to get this book because that's the other thing that I was missing with the fitness oracle. And that's the thing that I really wanted with the fitness oracle was to create a community, a supportive community to help men struggling with depression, right? To help each other get out of it. Right. How do you, what's the best way that you found to help build and nurture a community of supportive fans? Let's call them. Well, well, again, each of my shows are different. So I have different communities for all nine shows. They don't overlap pretty much. So for my how-to-podcasters, I do meetups twice a week. For the last two years, we get together and actually talk podcasting today alone. We had somebody from Italy, three people from the US and a couple people from Canada. And we just talked about podcasting for an hour and a half. It was great. People just loving on each other, supporting each other, listening to each other's shows, giving feedback, coaching each other to the best of their knowledge. It was like the best, I get to sit back and watch community happen. So there's, I heard this from another person, Kevin Paul Mary talks about this on his show. He says, "If you can get somebody to put their hand up and say, 'John, I listen to your show.' Great. That's the first step. That takes a lot of work, by the way, and not everybody's going to do that. A very small portion of your audience will ever put up their hand and say, 'John, I love your show. I listen all the time.' The second part is when you can then connect with that person. When you know their name, when you're like, 'I know that Kevin listens to my show.' So I know that I'm talking to Kevin every time I turn on the mic, because he's going to listen to my next episode. I know that Bill Monty is going to listen to my podcast. He lives in South Florida. I know their names. I know that there's a listener that listens to my show. And in Ireland, he walks along the ocean with his dog listening to my show. Like, I know where these people live and I've met them. I've talked to them through SpeakPipe, which is a way to leave voice messages for each other. I can hear their voice. They can hear my voice. You have a conversation through comments and DMs, through comments on YouTube. So if you're watching this today, jump in the comments, leave some comments. John, I love to hear your thoughts. As those things happen, you do this build upon each other. And that's kind of how my beginning start of creating community is meeting people where they want to be met and finding out where they are. So whether it's social media, Instagram DMs, or through SpeakPipe, through people contributing to the show through my Bimea coffee, that's another form of engagement for people. There's a lot of different ways to build community around your show. But the first thing is you just got to start building when you're small. So when you have those five listeners that listen to the episode, that's not a sign of defeat. You're not bad at podcasting. You have an opportunity to build into those five people. And those five people will tell more people, and they'll just keep growing from there. But they'll look down on a small audience. That is ripe for connection. When you have 100,000 people listening to this show, John, which is going to happen. Sure. It's going to be really hard for you to connect with all of those people. When you have five people, you can love on those people to the point where they are your priority and you know them by name. And that's going to help you so much as a podcaster. One thing that I did find in my past is, you know, because podcasting, it does cost money to run. It does cost money to run a podcast. Now there's tips and tricks to, you know, consolidate, you know, get this podcast episode up and running with a limited amount of money. I've fallen into the traps where I've spent thousands of dollars a month. Now I'm trying to get it under $200 a month. Where I'm trying to lead with this question, with this, with this comment is because it costs money to run a podcast, administrative work, distribution, distribution and produce and producing it. A lot of podcastes fall into the trap and I fell into this trap myself. Where we want to charge people to come onto the show to kind of limit the amount of expenses coming out of pocket. What I found with, it's with podcasters business insider, where I wanted to start off with charging guests to come on, is that there's a lot of resistance to help support the episode to go out. I've removed that. There's no more fees to come onto the show. I'm willing to talk to anybody and everybody. But how does a podcaster who doesn't have a lot of funds in the coffers be able to support the podcast and the community? with limited to no funds from themselves. - It's good. Well, one of the things is I created a website called podcastforfree.com. And I have all of the free tools that I use for my podcast. So podcastforfree.com, pretty good website, right? And yeah, so there's a bunch of free things. There are some things that you can use that'll help in your journey. Not everything is free, obviously. A microphone is something we would need to buy. You're gonna need a computer, you're gonna need the internet. Those things cost money. So technically it's not super free to do this. There is some cost involved. I do believe that you should invest in your show. And when you have the ability to do so, to invest. For me, I have nine shows. So everything is nine times the price. So that's something for me to consider as well. But what I've done is I've started with what I had. There's a quote by Thomas Thierry Roosevelt, sorry, says do what you can with what you have, where you are. And I think that's permission for us as podcasters to do what we can with what we have, where we are. We don't need to get all of the big expensive things. And we don't need to keep learning. We just need to do what we can with what we have and where we are. So my challenge for my community was, there's some tools I wanted, but I couldn't afford it. So I just asked my audience. They said, I would really like to be able to do this. I can't afford it with life and working. But if you could help me, then I can get the tool that'll make the show better. And the audience said yes. That's great. It's amazing. I've had people, my camera that I'm using today to talk to you came from Warsaw Poland, from a listener. I had a computer problem. And I put it out there to the world. The computer showed up on my doorstep from Amazon. Somebody bought me a desktop computer. A listener. So there is ways that your audience, when you show up on a regular basis and you become the companion that I talked about earlier, that listener that loves listening to my show, when you serve your audience in that way, it naturally people want to give back. You might only be able to do small things to give back. But they will. Last week alone, through my buying me a coffee, I had $50, $5 coffee donations last week. Which is from my audience, completely just shows up. And that's just my audience saying thank you. So there is ways to make money with your show without having to charge your guests. I've never charged my guests on my show. And I've never paid to be on a show before. That is a way to do it. And people are succeeding in that. For me, I've just decided to go a different way. And I don't have any ads on my show. And everything I have is covered by my audience. And for that, I'm completely and truly grateful because they're the ones funding the show. And it's hard. And it does take time to build that. But you did, you provided them one thing that I think you mentioned. As you provided, you provoked. Wow, I can't talk today, man. Wow, it's a, my first day on vacation from work. And it's like, wow. You, you, you led with value. And you provided enough value for your subscribers, your listeners, your, your community to say, you know what Dave, you're giving me so much. Here you go. I, we want to give back to you. And that is another thing that I'm trying to push with. New podcasters myself is lead with value. If you're going to do a course, do a free course, and just dump as much information into that free course as possible. Right. So that the listener or the person that's consuming it says, wow, this is amazing. I know this is for free. Right. I can only imagine what the paid version is going to be like. Yeah. At, at what point in a podcasters, quote unquote, life, should they actually start looking at creating the community for their listeners, so that they can join? I would start right away. Like I talk about building in public. Like, you start your show, your friends and family support you and listen to the first few episodes. And then they kind of fade away a little bit because maybe they're not interested in the topic of your show. And then that's when the people come in and they'll replace those initial first listens with people who actually come for the content and stay for you as a host. That's where I would start. I would really just start. So what I did from beginning was call out the people in my analytics. So on my podcast, editing and support show, another one of my shows, I noticed I had a listener in Germany who was listening to the most recent five episodes. He can tell the person here she had listened to the, the older episodes, but just the most recent five because there was one lesson in one city and Germany. And it's always the same. So I took a chance. And on a new episode, I just said, welcome to the show. We're going to talk about this. Listen to this today before we start. I have a listener in this city in Germany. Thank you for listening. I just want to call you out. And I'd love to hear your voice. So there's a speak pipe link in my show notes. I'd love to hear from you. Thanks for listening to the show. Did the podcast at the end before we left? Thank you for much everybody. Go check out the podcast. Here's the website. Oh, and before we go to the listener in Germany, I see you. I see you in my stats. I'd love to hear your voice. One episode, two calls to action specific to that one person. Just like I have other people listening, but that one person I just picked on them. Three weeks later, email shows up in my inbox from speak pipe. It just says voice message. Now again, I've nine shows. I don't know which show this is from. So I push play and sitting in the living room with my wife. And there's a gentleman from Germany who's responding, saying, I am the listener in Germany. And he was kind of chocolate. He's like, I can't believe you called me out, but it is me. And I just wanted to say thanks. I'm listening and I'm going to go start my own podcast. And now we're friends on LinkedIn. That's awesome. So when you look at your stats, those are people. Those represent people. So find the people, point them out in a small audience for your podcast and just love on them, like we said before. That will turn into people who will stay with you for the long term. It's interesting. It's interesting that you said that though, the stats are actual people. We have been conditioned through mega media, through schooling stats or stats. It tells you what it is. But what that what you just said, stats are actual people. There is a way to fudge the stats because I did it before. I paid somebody on Fiverr and I fudged my stats a lot. And it wasn't it was it felt like a little bit of a win, but then it just felt empty. But what you just said, stats are actual people. When you can get that kind of a connection, I think it's, I'm sure it felt like super, super important for you. When you heard from that person, like I'm sure it like hit home. Like yeah, if there's somebody on the other side. Yeah. And what happened because I talk about going back, I said, build in public. My audience saw that interaction as well. So people who were not in Germany listening to that episode and they live in the US. And then they heard the result went. So if I reach out, Dave's going to mention me, James going to talk. So if I do and that builds upon each other, everybody also then started to pile on to that going, well, if that person gets called out, that person can be on John show. John will mention me if we've John did it for Dave, John will do it for me. And then people start to pile on and there's the foundation of your community. That's really cool. I never even thought about doing something like that because I for me, I would look at my stats pretty much. I'd say I'd go into a deep dive once a week. And it's like, okay, well, great. I got a new, I got a new listener and Chuck or Chuck or Chuck, Chuck Republic. Got a new one in Australia. Oh, fantastic. But it's like as a podcaster, and I remember this from the past, my past show, it's like, you see all this, all this information coming in and you're like, I'm not seeing any comments on the YouTube. I'm not seeing any reviews coming in through iTunes. I'm not seeing this. I'm not seeing that are people actually listening. Those people, that is your feedback when you're starting. They are, they're here. So they might not be leaving your review. They might not leave a comment, but they're here. So technically you are getting feedback from your audience without them saying a word. They just keep showing up. And when you see a pattern, you're like, Oh, okay, that's something interesting. So I'm going to chase that down. I'm going to build on that. So yeah, it works. That's really cool. That's really, I mean, that was an amazing story. I've never heard of that. And it's like, I'm actually going to start doing that now. There you go. [LAUGHTER] Blackcasting is one of those-- is one of these-- I don't want to call it business models, but it actually is a business model. But it's more like an opportunity maker. There's so many different connections that you can make throughout the entire world. I found it more with my guests when I was a personal trainer and I had the fitness oracle. If I didn't have the answer, I had a hundred guests. Right. All over the world. Right, right. Look, I don't know anything about yoga, but I got like five people. I got five people all over the globe that are yoga experts. Right. Here you go. Have you seen that with yourself and your nine podcasts? Oh, for sure. Like, my living the next chapter podcast. It's an author podcast. I'm not an author. And I'm the host of the show. I've never written a book before. I've got 680 episodes where I've spoken to authors around the world. And talk about intimidating. I had a professor from Switzerland on my show. And he wrote three books independent of each other. And as he was going through each of the three books, written over a period of time, he finished talking about his third book. And I said to him, what's the common thread between all three of these books? Keep in mind, I'm not an author. I've never done this before. And he said, there is no common thread. And I said, well, I challenged that. This is a professor from a university. I'm not a professor from any university. I said the common thread as you wrote all three. He's like, okay, that's a given. Okay, yes, that's a common thread. I said the other common thread is when I hear you talk about these three books that are not written as a series, but independently, it seems like you're battling with your own self identity. And Johnny looked at me. The podcast stopped for a second. And there was this pause. And I'm like, oh, oh. And he said, what did you say? So I repeated myself. And he said, I wrote these three books. I have presented these three books. I have never considered that before. That this is battling with my own self identity. He's like, you know that I have to now go and rethink everything that I've ever done. He's like, who gave you that question? I mean, it's just me. And then I held it up a piece of paper that had zero questions on it because I don't write out my questions usually in advance. I just listened to my guest and I just a curious person. And he, when we were done, he's like, that was the strangest interview. I've never been asked anything like that before. It's usually the typical questions that you always get on every show. But who are you? That's what he said to me. And I'm like, I'm just a guy in Canada sitting in my basement. So, but it's amazing when you can serve somebody like that, when you can honor them that way and help them tell their story and really value them, like really value them, like how you're doing your show, John. When you can value your guest and make them feel like the star of the show. And then lean on their expertise. Again, I'm not an author. But I serve authors through my show. And it's the best thing ever because my guest is the expert in the room. There's no fight. There's no, well, I do it this way. And my guest does it that way and back and forth and back and forth. It's like, no, I release this episode to you because you're the guest and you're the expert. You've done something I haven't done. And with your help, we can sort of the audience together. And that's my role. It's not about me. And to be fair, my last podcast flopped, ran out of money. So I had to shut it down. And this podcast is brand new. So when it comes to running a podcast as a business, I am not an expert. But I do know how to launch podcasts. And I want to bring people on like you who have nine podcasts and are not burning out. And picky your brain, not just for me only, but also for the 25 people that I have on you to show them, you know. Here's Dave. Here's Dave from Southern Ontario who has nine podcasts and has a full-time job. It's not burning out. And he's succeeding. So let's get into his brain and see what he's doing to figure out what he's doing. And let's carbon copy. Some of it. Right. How do you not burn out with nine podcasts and a full-time job? Well, we are recording this at 2.13 p.m. I have been up since 9 p.m. yesterday. So I worked all night. I came home. I had a couple cups of coffee. I did my podcast or meet up. I'm with you. I have another interview later this afternoon. And then I'll go to bed for a few hours. Get back up and go back to work. I'm going to be back tonight at 11. So that's my day. Right. I'm an empty nester. So the result of context for people. I don't have small children in the house. So I have some flexibility during the day to do this. So compare yourself to, you know, be careful with that. Your situation might be different. So do what you can. Again, let's do it again. Do what you can with what you have where you are. And for me, I'm in a season of life when I have some freedom in my schedule to do this. So if my kids were under 10 years old, I couldn't do this. There's no way I could do this. So just keep that in mind as you watch and listen. You're like, there's no way I could even do one show. Well, again, do what you can with what you have where you are. Cool. Cool. Like I said, like, I got, I got this. I got a full time job too. And I'm thinking about launching two more podcasts. Come on. I know I got to catch up to you. Right. What's three podcasts? Most friends. Yeah. Well, that's cool. Like I said, like, I'm starting to feel the burnout. Like it's, it's there. And I felt it with a fitness oracle. And it made me pause with that podcast. Multiple times, like, I paused a couple of times because the burnout was just so much. And at that time, there was a moment in that part of my life where I had no job. So it was just the podcast in my entire life consumed around the fitness oracle rather than, you know, trying to find a job and trying to bring in some money. That's a different story. What was the warning light about burnout for you that you were like, oh, I got to pay attention to this. I'm always tired. Like to the point where I got to take a nap during the afternoon, which I never take naps. Now, I'm nearing the big 50 in a couple of months. So it could be just age. Right. Could be, but I don't, I don't think it is. It's just the amount of work that goes into producing, making sure the guests are going to be onboarded properly, making sure that the guests are nurtured after, making sure that I'm on the analytics. And I'm seeing, you know, what? I'm seeing the numbers where they are. Plus juggling a full-time job. Plus two elderly parents. It's a lot. This is my only escape. This interview. My interviews with you. That's my only escape. So when I start to feel that exhaust should come in, I'm like, burnout. Burnouts happening right now. Right. Interesting. Okay. Because if somebody listening, it's probably feeling that too. Whatever they're. So as your podcast or not, they're on that, that cusp of something has to change, right? When you start to feel the burnout, what do you do to get out of it? I'm a very, I'm wired really strangely. And we're. I, I know I'm getting close. When I start getting short with people or I get tough on myself, I get, I get super fixated on perfection. And I'm not happy until it's perfect, perfect, perfect. And that's not my normal state. I want to get it done. I want to serve my audience and move forward with the next thing. So I can, I can see that happening from time to time. For me, it's just a complete shutdown. And I'm not going to be in a way. The beauty for me is I'm always batching. I'm always recording in advance. So if I walked away from living the next chapter, author podcast. Right now, I could, I could step away from that show and not come back to March. And there'd be still three episodes a week. All the way to March. That's how far out I am recorded. So a new episode, a new recording today won't go until April. That's just because I have them in a gap. How to podcast, same thing all the way till February, Dad's base. This month alone is a podcast challenge to do 30 episodes and 30 days. It's called National Podcast Post Month, it's November. So I have three shows participating. That's the 90 episodes going out this month. So that's what I'm doing right now and that's for me a comfort level that comes over 2,000 episodes. So again, as a new person listening to this, that's ridiculous. I totally agree. That's completely ridiculous. But as I build, I find time and I find ways to do things faster and easier, which gives me time back in my calendar, allowing me to do more or do less when I want to. So I can unplug, but I'm always ahead of myself. That's kind of how I've been in my whole life. But you built that batching over time. Like you didn't say, you know what, next three months, the next month, I'm just going to bring on as many guests as possible and just go until February. Yeah, so I recorded my November episodes in August because I had some downtime in August. Knowing that November would be busy, I did that in August and dated them for November and I'm fine. So I walked into November with a full month, 30 episodes done before November 1st even happened. And now every day they just go out one after another. And I'm onto the next thing. So it's chugging away in the background. It's kind of that spinning plate thing. We have a stick and you put a plate on it and you spin it. I've got all these plates spinning around and some are wobbling really bad. Some are spinning really great. So I have to run around and keep spinning the plates. That's kind of my thing. Yeah, and that's again, we're doing that because I was a hard lesson that I learned as well. With my first podcast, it's like you need to batch. You need to batch your episodes. You need to have them. Yeah, and you need to have a bunch of them in the bucket, already scheduled three, four, six weeks in advance. I like the six week window. Right. Because it's just the six week window. Anything past six weeks, I feel like if you've got something that you want to promote like in a month, if your episode comes out like two months from now, three months from now, it's like, well, that's past. Right. I go into Facebook groups and I see my guest canceled for tonight. I need a guest. And I'm like, that hurts my heart because I'm like, hey, what's your show about? I don't even know what you talk about. Who's your, who are you looking for? And the fact that your guest canceled sucks, but I would much rather that would make me nervous. I would want to at least be a week ahead. So if my guest does cancel, well, he's have a backup plan. But so that's that's just how I operate. But again, that's not how everybody operates. Yeah, yeah. Like here, we're building right now guests. We're recording right now in November 15th. Your episode's not going to come out till probably December 2nd. So it's like, I have from now till December 2nd, episode's already scheduled. So I'm okay. But like you said, like I learned that over time because it was just one of those things that it's like, what if somebody cancels? Right. And their episode's supposed to come out Tuesday. And it's Saturday. I have nothing to put out on Tuesday. (laughing) Well, we're coming up close to the end of the show. And these are five questions that I ask. Oh my guests. Oh, here we go, everyone. We lean around around. We're on the Rebel 5. Call and get the Rebel 5. Wow, okay. If you could go back to day one of your journey, what would you tell yourself before you hit record? (laughing) Get ready because you're gonna learn how to listen better than you've ever listened before. Awesome. When motivation disappears, what's the one and no one's watching? What keeps you showing up anyways? My listener. Yeah. Cool. What's the failure that punched you in the mouth but ended up building your backbone? Getting fired from a job. Having somebody say, despite your best efforts, we don't need you here anymore. And it's like, I just gave you X number of years, all of my passion, all my heart. And then to be replaced by somebody because I was making too much money and they brought somebody in at quarter of the price. It's kind of a shot, right? But I knew that I had done my best. I built a great team and I knew my team missed me when I was gone. How did that build the backbone though? It helped me to understand that my value in life is not based on someone else's opinion. It's based on my family and all of the, I was commuting for that job two, three hours one way and then back. And I missed so much in a period of time over 10 years that I could never get it back. And I made a decision that I would never commute out of my community again. And I'd be home for my family. So that's how it turned around for me. That's awesome. That's awesome. How has your idea of success changed and what does it really mean to you now? - I guess the approval of others has always been something I've always had to wrestle with. I think over time instead of being worried about what other people think of me, I was more worried about what I thought of myself and finding my own approval within myself and not chasing everyone else's approval. If I can do my, again, if I can do my best with what I have where I am, I think that leads to more opportunities because I'm in a better space. I'm not so worried about whether John likes me. I'm more concerned if Dave likes me. - Good. If this Mike went that right after this question, what final message would you want every creator or podcaster to hear? - Share your story, help somebody, and listen. - Amazing. David, thank you for bringing your heart, your humor, and your humanity to this conversation. Your journey reminds every creator and podcaster listening that podcasting is more than just content. It's connection, community, and courage. Your proof that one story can change someone's world and one creator can change many. All right, Rebels, remember this, your voice has power, every episode you record, every story you tell, every time you hit publish, you're not just making noise, you're making history. Don't wait for permission, don't play small. The world needs your voice, raw, real, and unapologetic. Keep creating, keep pushing boundaries, stay bold, stay sharp, and as always, long live the Rebellion. - There you go, so there's John from Podcast Business Insider, a great podcast. I have a link for you and everything in the show notes. We do a check out this show. And yeah, I don't know of being a guest on a podcast. But again, I just want to talk about things like being chased by a moose, like who gets to talk about that often, right? Yeah, really good to be on that show. If you're looking for a guest for your podcast and you talk about dad stuff, you talk about music, you talk about podcasting, you talk about authorship, any of those things, or whatever else, I'd love to talk to you and be a guest on your show. Reach out to me through howtopodcast.ca. I'd love to come on and bring value to your audience and help you create content for your show. So let me know, the thing that I do as well is I help podcasters when they launch their show to be your episode one where you talk about yourself. And you're like, I don't know if I really want to just sit here and talk about myself. What if somebody else came and asked me questions about my podcast, the majority, and kind of interviewed me on my own show. I do that, I love doing that, and I love to help you with that as well. So keep me in mind. Happy to help, happy to collaborate, and I'll share it. So that can do right here to my audience and send more people your way. So if you need any help, add a podcast.ca. Make sure to listen. You're still here. Okay, this is amazing. Okay, so just a quick one. I'm working with a podcaster, help them set up there, buy me a coffee, and their speak pipe. And about a 10 episodes in, they reach out again, and said, Dave, it's not working. And I'm like, what's not working? They said, am I getting anybody's buying me a coffee and nobody's leaving me any speak pipe messages? So I said to them, well, I listened to your show, you're the latest episode and you never mentioned it. They said, well, you know, I don't really want to bring it up. I don't want to, sounds like I'm begging for money. When I talk about buying me a coffee and, I don't know, feel salesy. I feel like I'm being pushy to ask them to leave me a voice message. I'm like, "Well, there you've answered your own question. That's why you're not getting any response because you're not asking for it. You do not have 'cause you do not ask. Basically, it's what it comes down to. So if you want to have people to respond to you, you've got to give them reminders on a regular basis that yes, I'm looking for you to respond. If you don't do it, it's not gonna happen. So it's not a set it and forget it, type thing, well I created a bimmy of coffee and nobody's using it. That's like writing a book, putting it in a drawer and complaining that you're not selling any books. You gotta get out there and publish it. You gotta tell people about it. You gotta promote it. You gotta put it in everything you do so that people know that it's there. And eventually, people will do that. If you haven't it, any bimmy of coffee donations. What happens for me in this show is people are kind and they donate and sponsor, donate's an interesting word, sponsor the show. And I take that money that comes in through the show. And I try to redistribute it to other podcasters. So if you're a podcaster, you set up your bimmy of coffee. You don't even know if it works yet. Then send me a link and you just never know. You might just end up with a coffee purchase for you and for your show. I'd like to do that to help other podcasters. I want you to see that email. I want you to feel what that feels like to make money on the internet because people love your show. Happy to do that. Reach out to me. Let me know about your bimmy of coffee and you might just get something in coming through your email. Just putting it out there. Need any help? Let me know. Go tell people what you set up. Don't just set it in, forget it. Buy me a coffee, speak, pipe. Come on. You got to tell people. Thanks for listening.