The speaker recounts his involvement with extraterrestrial technology, starting with his job at Los Alamos and a chance meeting with Edward Teller. After leaving the lab, he sent Teller a resume, which led to an interview with EG&G Special Projects and eventually a position at S4. There, he worked on reverse engineering a craft of non-human origin, focusing on its power and propulsion system. He describes the craft as dark pewter, seamless, and perfectly uniform, with no human marks or superfluous details. Inside, light did not reflect or refract, creating an eerie, dark environment even with bright halogen lights. The speaker emphasizes the ominous feeling he experienced, contrasting it with the excitement others assume. He praises Luigi’s CGI simulation for accurately recreating the craft’s appearance and atmosphere, including the light behavior. He also discusses his first day at the site, which involved flying from Las Vegas to Area 51 on a Janet flight, signing security papers, and being shadowed by his supervisor Dennis Mariani. The conversation touches on a pilot who confirmed Dennis’s presence but later withdrew from an interview. The speaker reflects on the challenge of remembering details after 35 years and philosophical insights about knowledge and reality.
Well, there's several, actually nine flying thought through flying diff. That are out there of extraterrestrial origin. People always say, "Well, how did you feel? How did you feel going? How did you feel when you first looked at the craft?" It's not excitement. It's an ominous feeling. It's just we're so used to something else. People say, "I must have been so cool." No, I was not cool at all. I actually wanted to go back out. It's a really creepy feeling in there. Galileo was the project I was involved in, dealt with the power and propulsion system of the craft. This is where they talked about reverse engineering, extraterrestrial equipment. This is when I really realized, "Okay, we are reverse engineering something that some other entities made." This is where it became real for me. If they have a machine that is producing its own gravitational field, they really want to know how to make more loaves. Do you wish you could forget what you saw? Oh, no, not at all. No. No, I want to see it again. I want to know more about everything there. If you could ask somebody who worked at us for right now, if you could talk to them right now, what's something you'd ask? What did you find out? Where did we go from there? I mean, tell me anything. Tell me how was the power generated? How did the components communicate to each other? What range did they work at? Just tell me anything. Fill in any blank at all. It's like having a cross with puzzle with nothing in it. Please put a letter anywhere and I'd be happy. He rotates the emitter further than he did before and a little black dot, a little ball forms there. And as I walked out under the craft, I couldn't see the craft. As I got closer to it, the craft just turned into sky. What I was seeing was the light bending around the craft. And if you could control that, right? You could do. I mean, what you could do. If you could have taken one small item from the hanger with you, what would it be? From the hanger or from the lab? It's kind of a trick question there. Boy, I just don't want to get into that. All right. All right. I mean, actually to answer the question, I may have already done that. Do you like the sound of your own voice? Yeah, it's kind of weird. Yeah. I don't really like it, but I have to deal with it. Yeah. No one does. Well, especially after doing this documentary. Yeah. Do you ever get sick of watching yourself on video? I can't tolerate myself on video. It's just like listening to your voice. Anytime I look at myself, I'm disappointed. I mean, I never meet my own specifications. But I look at a sketch I made. I mean, oh my god, I'm embarrassing. So yeah, I don't know. I don't live up to my own specs. I think everybody's their own worst critic. I've had to overcome that in the decade long, you know, incestantly filming and hearing myself and then editing myself on top of that. It's enough to make you never want to do it again, but you got it. I got to climb that hurdle every single time. Yeah. Yeah. So we're in this together. All right. Bob was our welcome. Welcome to the skiff. Yeah. Thank you. Good to be here. Yeah. Good to have you here. Thanks for doing this. I know that you really do these interviews. I know that you rarely do them. You know, and not because you're being evasive, but because you feel like you've told your story. Yeah. I really have. I thought initially I did one story and then I made a video tape and thought that would be it. And if anybody wanted to know the story, they could just play the tape. Yeah. You know, people had other questions, other things happen. So I do it. I don't really like doing any public appearances. But you know, once in a while I stick my head above. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. And I'm sure everybody watching or most people watching appreciate it. Yeah. This undertaking of doing this project with Luigi's project, Gravator or S4, the Bob Osar story. I mean, this has been something you've been doing for almost three years. Yeah. It was after doing Jeremy Corbell's film. I really thought that would be the end. And I had really no interest in doing anything, anything further at that point. Yeah. And, you know, it was contacted by Luigi. I think I kind of, you know, skipped taking his phone calls here and there for a little while. And he said, look, I really, it was so motivated and said, just let's show exactly what you saw. And, you know, eventually I relented and said, okay, let's go for it. I'll tell you exactly the way everything was. If you want to do graphics, I'll correct everything to exactly what I saw. And I mean, to my surprise, he really, really did it. The graphics I've seen, the CGI looks like it was literally downloaded from my brain. It's impressive. I can't tell it from reality. It's exactly like so. I'm anxious to see the upcoming film because it's from the little clips I've seen. It's, yeah, it's what I saw. That's, I mean, that's an incredible statement and a great testimony, you know, to the project. I myself had the opportunity to see select clips and even, you know, try the VR version. Oh, that's really cool. And yeah, and I mean, the one thing that struck me putting this on for the first time, you know, and for someone who's been following your story, your journey and really trying to like dig into this and try to make connections and, you know, figure out, you know, what's going on with this project right now, putting this on, putting this mask on and being in that place to me, didn't feel, I didn't, I thought I was excited at first. And then an overwhelming sense of dread. See, that's, that's amazing because that's exactly how I felt. And for him to be able to present that on film, it's surprising to me that that can be conveyed that way because when I walked in there, people, you know, always said, well, how did you feel? How did you feel when you first looked at the craft and I, it's not excitement. And when I showed it to my friend, or Luigi showed it to my friend, Gene Huff, who I had been fighting in at that time, he said, wow, it's really, it's really creepy. It's almost an ominous feeling. I said, that's, that's exactly it. How do you get that feeling through that? So to me, that's what told me Luigi hit the nail on the head. Yeah. Because I can't describe it, but you experienced it too. Yeah. And I think I'm excited for people to experience that. If that's even something to get excited about, people, you know, feeling terrified. But it is this, it's almost, it's almost so strange because you understand the part in the pun, but the gravity of this situation, right? When you're seeing human technology, so primitive compared to this, you know, pristine, beautiful, perfect vessel. It's just sitting there with wires coming out of it with extension cords and there's just that dichotomy of our tech versus theirs, you know, and the fact that this is like hidden in a, in a hillside somewhere, right? And that you're there and you get to witness it is, is really impressive. But I mean, the dark, pewter color of this craft doesn't help. I mean, it all seems to know. No, nothing. It has, it has no human marks on it, you know, there's nothing is, nothing is superfluous. There's nothing extra on the craft. Not a, not a line, not a bump. There's nothing stylized. Everything there has a specific function. Yeah. And there's really nothing that we make like that. And also everything has different shapes in our world. Everything has sharp corners or round corn. But everything in the craft didn't. It was all the same, all the same material, all the same machine, all the same radius of curvature on everything. It's really a weird environment. And even the way light plays itself inside there. I was talking to Luigi about this.
you know, when he was trying to get the craft to work, because he has it working in a actual physical environment. And we could put in spotlights. And in the one time I was inside the craft, they had the little tripod, halogen lights set up inside. So there were some other guys working and we came in to see the placement of the reactor. And the lights were on. Full brightness. And they didn't light up the inside. They lit up where they were shining, but it doesn't refract anywhere. It really, it doesn't, you can have a light shining straighter to wall here and coming band trying to work here and you're working in the dark. And it's just a really weird environment. But the fact is that happened in Luigi's simulation, which again really impressed me because I said, apparently you really got it because it's not the material. Apparently it's the angles. Yeah. And not only that, it just, you know, for a lot of people out there, I think it validates what you're saying at the same time because, you know, to say something like that prior to making it, it almost doesn't make sense. Right. Right. So when you say, oh, we put the lights in the craft, these halogen lights, but it didn't get brighter. It stayed dark. You think, well, I mean, it's turned the brightness up on the lights, right? Yeah, that's nonsense. Yeah, but Luigi, I think he said he turned it up to 600%. And it still didn't get brighter. And I said, that's exactly it. Yeah, it's exactly a range. And that's partially because I guess you had the non-reflective sort of matte metal almost that was absorbent, I guess light absorbent. Yeah, but it wasn't that absorbent. It's, you know, it wasn't what do they call it, Vantoblack or anything like that. No, I mean, it was a pewter color. It should, but that's how it worked. Just non-reflective, really. Yeah, I mean, the whole craft is just kind of an enigma. So let's go back into this project. I want to talk a little bit about meeting Ed Routeller initially. And what that was like for you as a young man. I mean, and with, you know, the documentary, there's even proof now that Ed Routeller was at Los Alamos University giving a lecture on the day that you said he was there. And there's proof of that. There's footage of that. Yeah, I'll tell you what happened. I mean, I was working at Los Alamos. It was a slow day and in the Los Alamos paper that day just happened to be the day I was on the front page of the paper. I mean, I drove my little Honda car to work every day that I put a jet engine in. And sometimes I just drove with a jet to Los Alamos and, you know, that security would flip out about that. But it became noticed. And, you know, the newspaper did, well, we'll do a front page thing on this guy. On that day, Ed Routeller was giving a lecture at the lab. In fact, if you flip over the front page right on there, it'll say Ed Teller giving a lecture lab about, you know, nuclear weapons. I don't remember specifically the top up about nuclear weapons, but that's what it was. And it was kind of a slow day at the lab. And I wanted to go see the lecture. So I left early to go there. When I got there, Ed Teller was sitting outside on the block wall by, you know, blaze he was going to speak at. And I walked out and he was reading the paper. So I walked out, you know, and said, you know, apparently waiting for someone or waiting to let them out. But I walked up and introduced myself and I said, you know, hey, I'm Bob the guy on the front. And anyway, we got to talking and, you know, it was really cool because he's a guy out of history. Oh my God. Yeah. You know, a big time. That was really neat. And you know, went into, you know, watches presentations, so on and so forth. Time goes on. You know, I eventually leave the lab, started business on my own and start contracting with the lab instead of working for him and then, you know, move to Las Vegas and have been out of the scientific community for a while and just kind of started missing it and said, I got to do something else. So I started sending resumes out and sent one to him and, you know, getting a few back here and there and finally get a response from him saying, you know, I think there's some people that might be interested in you. And he gave me a contact at EG&G special projects. So I went down there. They were at that time. They were based at the Karen Airport in Las Vegas. Big building and I have no idea what EG&G special projects. We still don't. Yeah. Apparently there were special projects. Yeah. But went in there and, you know, had an interview, did really well and kind of went home and it didn't hear anything and that, I guess that didn't pan out. But eventually they did contact me and said, you know, there's another job I think you would be better suited for. Why don't you come back in? So I went back in, had a different interview and anyway, that was the job for S4. How different was that interview? Like can you hear this? It's the same. It's just different people. Different people? Yeah. Were the questions more scientifically oriented or were they personal? Were the second set of questions were almost exclusively what I did in my spare time. The first one was all the technical stuff. Yeah. What do you do? You know, what do you do when you leave work? What do you do here? You know, what have you built anything? You know, what that it was all after the fact questions. Did that strike you as like a little strange? Really, really unusual. So I've never run into that before in any interview and it's just kind of like they were taking the information from the first interview and just adding any kind of personal stuff to it. I mean, you know, do you drink? Do you go out? You know, after work? You go running around the bars and things and, you know, anyway, answering all that stuff. And, you know, it went back home, but eventually they called me. Yeah. And at this point, you're like, cool. Got a job. Nice. This is. Yeah, got a job. Nice. And what they said, it's advanced propulsion technology. And it was supposed to move into a two weeks on one week off thing where I would actually stay out at the test site. So yeah, you're already doing a lot of work on propulsion yourself with like the jet engine, but your passion as well is sort of propulsion is, you know, blowing stuff up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anything to do with the jet or rocket engine. Yeah. Anything high energy, you know, microwave, if it's just harnessing tremendous amounts of energy and controlling it, I'm on board with that. And this seems like a perfect fit then. Yeah. I guess it will. Yeah. As it turned out to be, you exactly are harnessing tremendous amounts of energy and focusing it the way you need it. Yeah. There was a dream, really. So you get a call to get this job, to get this position. And can you take us through your first day as you remember it? If you remember sort of the first, I'm sure like now after all these years, it's probably a conglomerate of all sorts of memories. But I can do the first day, but I can, you know, I can't separate them. The first from the fourth of it. The second from that. Yeah. I think it's a big hint of fuse together after 35 years. Sort of interrupt, but like just so people understand this as well, because Luigi actually gave me a really great example. He goes to me and he says, have you tried remembering what your third grade classroom looks like? And I go, yeah, sort of. And he's like, what color were the chairs? I'm like, whoa. Yeah, yeah. Those are questions people ask me. Yeah. And they get, and they get really upset. So you can't remember. Yeah. So I went, let's put that up there. No, I can't. Well, obviously this is all made up. It's not. But, but yeah, I mean, give me a break. Yeah. Yeah, the first time I went out there, I was called out to again, eGNG special projects. So I went there and like I said, that's at McCarran Airport. Now, you can go out of the back of that. And that's where they had the Janet flights, which were the seven, seven, 27, some 27, some 27. Yeah. Yeah. Jets with the red stripe. Yeah. Anyway, they were only used by the government at that time to fly back and forth to Area 51. Or the other, I mean, to the different test site areas, to Tonapan back from Las Vegas. So I flew that and that landed at Area 51. That would be my fruit. Area 51 proper, groom like, is where we landed. And then I was taken into a room there. And that's where we went over all the security protocols. And you know, it was expected of me and you know, it signed all kinds of security forums so on and so forth. You were alone during that portion, during that flight. No, during that flight, Dennis, Mariani, who was my, my supervisor, very military looking guy, short hair, looked like he just walked out of the Marines, no sense of humor whatsoever. Yeah, just followed me everywhere and you know, it was kind of my shadow at the time. Yeah.
Did you have like a sense of humor at all or anything? No, it was it was. It was it was that. No, nothing was funny. You know, you know, it sounds like a fun time. Yeah, yeah, it was creepy. Dude. So anyway, the first day was really just signing that stuff and you know, that was about it. Yeah. I want to I want to talk about something that happened recently that I had someone reach out. You know this. I had someone reach out to the channel who was a pilot at one for one of these planes. Right. who was contracted to EG&G during those years that you were there and recalls meeting Dennis over a dozen times. Everybody knew that guy. Yep. Sort of made developed a relationship with him and you know, I'll keep him anonymous. He was actually supposed to come on here. Oh really? Okay. Yeah, we had arranged everything and then and he was very nice and a very nice guy, but then all of a sudden just dropped off face the earth, blocked my number. Yep. And he was verified. So he was it was the first time I guess we were going to get a pilot from one of these planes to come on, but I guess he may have gotten dissuaded at some point, which I don't think is surprising to you. No, it's not. I hear stories like that from George and App too much. Oh, I would got a guy that knows you. I mean, you see you there and you know, so on and so forth. And you know, we're talking to him tomorrow and tomorrow comes and goes and the next day comes and goes. And you know, and then Joy has or George has some story that connects to that and we're never talking to him again. And yeah, he's gone. So but sufficient to say that he places Dennis, he called him John was like his nickname, I guess, or his middle name or something. But he places him there. And then so you get there, you fill out these papers. Do on that first day is that all you did that they bring you to the site on that day or did they bring you did you go back home? I think that was all that happened that day because that we went there late. We went there late. I think I like I said a lot of the days fused together. I think we went there late. Did the paperwork and I went home. Yeah. And the next time they brought me to the site. Mm hmm. Push a realist far enough and he comes into a novelist. Push a novelist far enough and he turns into a realist. What does that mean? Well, it means the same thing as if you investigate matter thoroughly, you turn up with mind. If you investigate mind thoroughly, you turn up with matter. So investigate you and you get the external world. How would happen if you investigate the external world? Well, you get you. How are things like when we're not looking at the act of knowing? Changes what you are knowing. Knowledge of something is the same as action upon it. You may just observe things and write them down. The really good knowledge is always accumulated by an action upon the world to see what changes that action makes. So the next time you get in, you land, you go to the waiting room, I guess, or some type of compartment where they hold you until the bus comes. Well, no, not at that time because the bus, the second time the bus was there on the tarmac. Yeah, or close to it. And again, I was with Dennis and then we went into a bus which was a navy painted school bus with blacked out windows and just sat down right at the front seat right where the big bar is and sat there and Dennis sat across from me in the entire way we're driving down. There was like a 15, 20 minute drive or something. Dennis is just staring at me, which is just as I just peeked out the front window and it's just a weird guy. Yeah, so maybe some type of intimidation technique because that's something I don't know. You weren't a stranger to over there. Like they would, you know, I've heard you say they would regularly like check you like to like almost like a fear tactic. Like they would, you know, very military. Yeah, certainly after that. Yeah, the, you know, security at S4 was like those guys train all the time and they're just waiting for something to come so they can do something. It's like, you know, football player training all the time and never getting to play a game. Yeah. As soon as an opportunity comes up, you know, they're excited. But yeah, then we went past where the hangar doors would be at S4 because I couldn't see those and around the side. And we got out of the bus and went into a single door, you know, on the side of this hill. I mean, I couldn't really see anything. It was just, yeah. You know, a short area that Dennis led me into. And sort of this like unceremonious sort of unromantic entrance. So there's just like random door and hill dirt. Yeah, yeah, it was just nothing. It wasn't, you know, well-capped or anything and went in there and there was a, you know, small room and, you know, a guard desk and, you know, very uneventful. So while you're driving, you said you drove past the doors, the hangar doors. You didn't see them. Was that not that time? I only realized I passed them because of in the future, when I saw them. But yeah, we just, once we made the turn, we hadn't already passed those. But in, and we get to talk about this now because at this point, everything will be, I think, available to talk about. But there's a picture of those doors. So by the time this comes out, that'll be publicly available. But that picture, you're talking about Luigi's image. Yes. Oh, yeah. Or I mean, there's also a guy that, you know, did that on Google Earth. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but there's the Luigi's image. That's, that's perfect. It's exactly the way it looked. Yeah. And, you know, not only that, I mean, he's had Ron Masters, who is a spectronomy expert, look at, you know, the pixels and everything else. And, and, and deem this to be authentic, that those are indeed anomalous shapes. They're not natural. And you can count nine. Yeah, yeah. Doors. I mean, that is, that is an incredible piece of vindicative sort of, like, just information that completely exonerates that whole story for me. How did that feel when you saw that picture for the first time? What did that, do that stir anything in you? I mean, it was, it's always great to be vindicated by, you know, to some degree, but to me, I already know that's the way it is. So you, it's hard to impress me about that. Hey, what you said is right. Yeah. I know. You know, so, so I can't, I can't get too excited about it, but it's, it's nice to see less people saying, you're absolutely full of shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I saw that, I mean, it was almost, it was almost scary. I was like, whoa, that's crazy. That's, you know, it, it, you know, and not to say that I don't believe your story. That's not what I'm saying, but it is something else from an, from an onlooker outside looking in. Somebody who's trying to be pragmatic and logical about things. No, but it's a fair thing to say. I mean, you, you can't believe it. You need enough information. Yeah. And if I can't provide that, then it's fair. Yeah. You can say, Hey, I mean, what you say might be true. It might be not. And that's, that's it. But you can make a distinction either way. Yeah. You know, without more information, you can't see it. This is just total nonsense. Well, you know, I mean, to give me a break, look at, look at the facts and the facts start piling in. It starts leaning my way. Yeah. And it's just nice to see that it's, it's been going now. Yeah. It's been pretty one sided actually. It's been leaning to your side, I think, since the beginning, in my opinion. Okay. So you get into this door. We're in this room. There's, is this the room where there's the scanner to get into the next section? Yeah, there is. Now, there's sometimes a guard in there and sometimes there's not, I do not remember if this time there was a guard there. I just don't. But anyway, there's a hand scanner. And Luigi's duplicated that. I don't remember the name of it. It was the identity. The identity of that. There is a thousand or something. Yeah. And I guess it's a different version of it. But it's, there's a bright light on top and you put your hand in the scanner. And it measures the length of your bones that are supposed to be unique. That was the first time I was putting my hand on there. And it recorded it or whatever. And then it stores your badge in it. So when you put your hand on there, your badge comes out. And it's a badge that has a magnetic stripe on it. And from that point on, you use it to open the doors. Right. The door that you're allowed in. Yeah. Now, you can either clip it on your, you know, your shirt or your lab coat or whatever and keep taking it off.
or as you know later on I found out that Barry had a bunch of giant O-rings, you can clip it onto and then you know you can stretch it and let it snap back. The reason you do that is because like I mentioned about the security guards before they're waiting for anything to go wrong. If it slips inside your shirt, if you stick it in your pocket by error and it's not visible, they will throw you against the wall and give you the third degree about, you know, procedures and you know, security guards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that did. And that's why I put the rubber o-ring on and clipped my badge on that. So it was always dangling around. I never needed to take it off. It had, you know, I had it clipped on and it slipped behind my lab coat so it wasn't visible to the world. They were just waiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, look, these guys had to go, fight to go pee in the bathroom. You know, they didn't just go to the bathroom with you. They stood there and watched you pee. I mean, they had to watch everything you were doing. And security was so tight. Yeah. It was so oppressive. Yeah. It actually destroyed your will to work there. Oh, understandably. Yeah. That would be a big bummer. Um, okay. So like you're, I'm piecing this together here on an emotional level and a psychological level. Like first of all, you're being flown on a plane with one other person, you know, you're being taken on this bus ride. This guy staring you down, this, this military looking dude, blacked out bus driving off site, you know, going to this place. There's this weird shady door. You're scanning your hand like it's some type of sci-fi movie. You know, you're getting a scanner out, um, security everywhere. What, what's your emotional state? Like at this point, do you remember? Yeah, I do remember. I had the feeling that not everybody wanted me hired there. And, you know, that's, that's why I was kind of getting like the third degree. But, um, yeah, I, I tried to do what they wanted. Yeah. You know, and maintain and still be myself. So I mean, things, things worked out, but it was really uncomfortable and just not, you're not going to make much progress working like that. You can't have the military and control of anything other than the military. Yeah. And, um, yeah, well, it just, it just doesn't work there. Yeah. And as we'll come to find out that, you know, the military is pretty much in control of all of that. And still is to, you know, I think to a certain extent. So you get your badge. Um, do you, do you immediately meet Barry? Do they take you to meet your partner? How, how long into the process? Do you think, uh, was it the first week or? Oh, yeah, it was, well, it was the first couple day. First couple days. Yeah. You get used to your lab partner. Yeah. The first time I went in to the nurse, which is if you, if you walk in, uh, right now, the, uh, you know, right up to that. If you want to call that the security room, whatever, uh, there's a hallway off to the right that goes, you know, to the nurse and they just do a general checkup and then they do an allergen test on your arm. And, you know, as she explains to you, it's the only female there, um, that you're going to be working with a lot of exotic materials that we know nothing about and we want to know if you're going to have any allergic reaction to them. So they do a grid on my arm and just poke me with a bunch of different materials. And then I think I had to go back that day after that and wait like two days for that before I went back looking for and nothing swelled up or goodness. Yeah. Because what's the cure for that? Yeah. Who knows. But I went back and then saw her again and then, um, I think there was, there's this just general. I don't remember what the hell she said it was, but, um, something for your immune system or something like that. I drank like a pine color. It reminded me a pine salt. It was that color or deep brown or shallow color. Yeah. And, um, opaque. No, no, you could see this translucent. Okay. And then I was free to go and that's and that day, whatever day that was, that's when Dennis took me to meet Barry who was going to be my lab partner. And, you know, the way it is I explained to you the way it worked was, um, we all worked on the buddy system. They call it everybody has a lab partner. You can exchange information ideas with that one person. And that's it. There's no talking to anybody else in any groups and, yeah. And, um, when I went in to meet Barry, saw the lab that we're going to be working in. He was like super happy to see me. Like he had been alone for a while. So, um, you know, I mean, he showed me around. There's kind of a whole story there. But, um, yeah, that was that was the day that I first met him. And then, you know, after we're showing a bunch of things, we went back and, you know, it was the end of that day. The days were kind of short. As soon as it started getting fairly dark, I would wind up going home. Do you know why that is? Or was just, that was just a schedule. I think that was, it was just because the plane was leaving at that time. Right. And I wasn't set up to start staying there. I knew Barry stayed there. He lived there. Not live there. But I mean, you stayed for a few days. Yeah. I think, it was either you stayed there for a week and had two weeks off or you stayed there for two weeks and had one week off or something like that type of rotation. Yeah. So, yeah, I wasn't at that level yet. Oh, there's being introduced to things. That must have been kind of exhausting. Yeah, it was because it wasn't a normal work schedule. Yeah. Uh, the way it would work was, they would call me at random times. I mean, it could even be on a Saturday. I'm out mo on the lawn or doing something and I come in and they'd say somebody would call from a Karen Airport or EG&G Special Project and they'd say the name, you know, um, this is Julie from EG&G Special Projects. It is now 410. Uh, we expect you to be on the tarmac at 615 and, you know, okay. Thank you. And so, all right, I guess I'll put some clothes on and you get there and drive there and, you know, park my car and at 615 and be standing on the tarmac and, you know, get on the plane and that's, that's it. So it was really weird like that and unpredictable. Yeah. And again, I don't know why that was. Maybe that was some kind of test in some way. Yeah. If I'd be flexible or there. What? Seems like an environment where, you know, I've, I spoke to a guy, a friend of mine, Hakeem Isler, he was, uh, he worked at SIOP for a little bit in the military and it was something that they had to go through was like stress and oculation. They would constantly like be, be up in an hour. Oh, never mind. And like this, they'd be, you know, sort of dragged along emotionally just to sort of get them used to being under high stress environments. Like that was something that they would. Maybe that was it. Yeah. They were trying to like prep you for, for certain things. And so, all right. Now let's get back to project gravitor because we're coming into this place. Now, Luigi and his team did such an amazing job creating that, that bus ride, seeing the hangers from the bus entering that door, getting your hands scanner and then eventually going into the infirmary where how accurate is that infirmary? That's, it's a hundred percent. Really? It's the whole thing's a hundred percent. Look, even I, I couldn't see the bus on the outside. Yeah. You're seeing what I couldn't see. But that would have been what my eyes saw. Yeah. Because the, the hangers looked just like that. The infirmary was just like that. I mean, they spent three years working on this trying to get it exactly perfect. And to my surprise, they did. So it's, it's right on. Was there anything that, because I know that like a few times, like especially when we, when eventually we'll get into the craft and we'll get into, you mentioned before the tripod light. But these are kind of, this is kind of information that sort of started arising now that the environment had the ability to jog your memory because that's a real thing. Like if you showed me a picture of my classroom in grade three, I guarantee you I'd start recalling things that I'd forgotten. Yeah. Yeah. That happened with Luigi too. He'd start building the rooms and say, look in here. And you know, I said, oh, wait, wait, no, no, the desk was there. Oh, yeah. Wait. There was a whiteboard there. Yeah. I mean, it did bring back memories. But you know, how, how could it not when you start seeing it? And it becomes, you know, close to reality. There's a couple things you always forget until you see it. Sure. And yeah, that really filled in some blanks, which was pretty cool. Yeah. That must have been pretty cool. I mean, in, like in any environment, like if you were to go back in grade three, I'd still like to see my classroom be like, oh, wow, this is kind of not really that I get to be here, you know, so in any scenario. But in this specific one, I think a little bit cooler, arguably. So, okay, you go to the infirmary, you get these tests. Then you meet Barry, Barry's excited to see you.
is this where Barry breaks the news that the previous person who'd worked there had passed? Yeah. Yeah. Once I get introduced to Barry and you know, everything's kind of copacetic. Yeah. So Dennis leaves. Okay. You know, and then Barry now is excited to show me around the lab and he says, I am going to show you stuff that's so awesome. I'm excited. This is great. And well, wait, I left out a gigantic part here before I met Barry, we went to the briefing room where I read, yeah, all kinds of briefing. Yeah. Okay. Let's pause here for a second. Yeah. This is we left out on major parts. Yeah. Arguably one of my favorite parts. Yeah. Yeah. After the nurse stuff was done, the next boy, it's hard to remember what came before the nurse of the briefings. I think the nurse came first, but anyway, yeah, I think it was second. The the briefings I go into a room with Dennis. There is literally a stack of blue folders there and he said, here's a synopsis of the projects going on. We need to get you caught up or at least familiarize with them until, yeah, you know, then we can bring you in. And so I started reading through those. And that's where I learned there were several projects going on, project Galileo, project site kick, project looking glass. Galileo was the project I was involved in that dealt with the power and propulsion system of the craft. And this is where they talked about reverse engineering, extra terrestrial equipment. Yeah. That's kind of what I thought. But then I also thought, are they just pulling my life? That's really nonsense. And this is just some kind of test of some kind. So I just continued reading through it. Project site kick dealt with the weapon potential of the craft. And project looking glass dealt with the fact that it produced its own gravitational field if the flow of time can be distorted. And again, I'm not talking about, yep, going back in time. I'm talking about this. Yeah. Can you change time by a few milliseconds? Are you able to affect time at all? And, you know, so there were there was a lot to go through there, which I did. Those, I mean, those three projects, you know, the one thing that stands out to anyone who looks into that is that it's the three potentialities or the three, three directions you can take gravity in space with the craft propulsion time with time dilation and then weaponization is like how to manipulate gravity. How do we maximize the manipulation of gravity? Right? Weapons time space. Control that. That's like the whole eternity. Like you have that, you rule the world, right? Yeah, yeah. Look, if you can produce gravity, if you can control gravity, you have a machine that makes gravity. And you can control its intensity, you already rule the world. Yeah. You know, you you don't realize the potential that has because, you know, as I've said before, all the stuff you've seen in science fiction movies now becomes a reality. Yeah. Now you've got force fields now you've got time travel, I've got warp drive, everything hinges on that. And if they have a machine that is producing its own gravitational field, yeah, they really want to know how to make more of those. Yeah, that would be high priority. It also, I often think of like, it's good reason to keep it secret. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get that in the wrong hands. You got some type of time dilating weapon or whatever that is, right? No, you, yeah. Yeah. The other side gets that you lose. Yeah, exactly. Out of those three projects, which one do you find most fascinating? I mean, I naturally like propulsion, but I have this is real destructive streak in me and I kind of like sidekick. But on the other hand, I mean, all three are interesting, but how could you not be interested in interfering with the flow of time? Because that's, yeah, that's the most powerful thing of all. It's even the most powerful weapon of all, you know, is time. But all three of them are incredibly interesting. Have you ever heard of the chronovisor? No. There's a note here. There's a guy, it's an Italian guy. He was a, he was a monk actually, I think I have it here, a Benedictine monk, father, Pellegrino, or Nettie in 1950, said to have worked, he said he worked alongside Dr. Fermi, Vernon von Brown, on a project of this machine that was able to peer back in time. So a machine that they could look through and take pictures of past events and that the Vatican ended up confiscating it. It's this deep conspiracy. Is this real? Is it not real? I don't know, but I just thought it was interesting that in the 1950s, this actually came, he first talked about this in the 70s, I think 1970. And so that came to light with the chronovisor, which I was really interesting. So when you first mentioned project looking glass, I thought, "Whoa, that's kind of interesting." That they would never heard about that. Yeah, but either way, I see how all three of those things can be incredibly paradigm shifting for any civilization. Yeah, and they're all fascinating to work on. Did that occur to you then that like what you were dealing with was beyond anything else? Did that occur to you in that moment? Like when you were reading those documents, that holy shit, this is a big deal. If this was true, yeah, yeah, it did. It did. But I was only about 50% there. On, you know, I know I do what these guys are going after here. And so I just read through the stuff. But I knew Project Galileo is what I was going to be assigned to. So yeah, they're me. I'm all for it. There is a whole other section of the documents, which we won't go deep on because I know how you feel about that section as well. But I have to ask still like on maybe just a surface level. You know, there was some hypnotic regression stuff that he did in the past to try and like, you know, bring some of this memory stuff back on what those documents read. But generally speaking, there were mentions that this, the owners of the craft were from Zeta Ritikoli. That was like the, yeah, yeah. That was what the documents stated. Yeah, there were, I mean, there was, I mean, a document that dealt with the bi, they called them biological entities that were on the brain. He'd be used, yeah. Yeah. And I can't remember the way they worded it. But anyway, they had a couple drawings of them in there. And I think there was one photograph and the rest were drawings. And it just showed it was kind of the biology of their body where their chest was cut open. And there was one single organ inside their body, kind of like if all you cut open our bodies and all our organs had grown together as one general purpose thing in there. And that's, it's just the way they were inside. It also mentioned the, some information was gleaned from the craft that made them think it became, it came from Zeta Ritikoli, a different star system only visible in the Southern hemisphere, like 30 some on light years away. How they got that information. I'll never know. Yeah. Again, it was just in there. Whether or not there were aliens, it actually looked like that. I'll never know. It was just pictures in there. Yeah. So I always had to make a distinction between the stuff I actually touched and knew worked that way and what they claimed. There's also one of the things Barry told me when we got working together. He said they put a bunch of crap in there. That way if information is spread around and the garbage they give different people is different. So if people start spouting stories that you read, they know exactly who to trace it back to. Yeah. So yeah. So I was expecting nonsense in there. So passage material. Yeah. I didn't give everything a 100% credibility right off the top. I think as someone who's pretty left brain, somebody who's logically focused and like, hey, this is, I think I would also react the same way initially. Yeah. You have to. Just because people say, hey, there's government documents that say that, yeah, there's lots of government documents they say nonsense. It's intended that way. Yeah. Yeah. So don't, you know, don't be deceived just because it's, you know, the Pentagon printed it out or some other government agency that it's a 100% true. Yeah. Don't hang your hat on it, but also shelve it. Right. It could be. Yeah. Because that to me, you know, prior to the podcast, we were talking a little bit and you'd mentioned, you know, like the Betty and Barney Hill was the only other time that you heard that and that was like back, you know, in the 50s and we're six 50s or 60s. Yeah. Now I don't follow you up on lore or stories.
or UFO researchers, but I have ever a few stories. But what was interesting is the Betty and Barney Hill story, back in the early '60s, mixed race couple claiming to be abducted by some flying saucer, and apparently Betty was able to talk to the aliens and before they let her go, the she said, where did you come from? And they sure were the map. And she remembers the map and during an interview, draws it out and they went, yeah, well, that's Zeta reticulate. And the fact that it said Zeta reticulate in my paperwork, well, that's a connection there. And so I pay attention to that. So maybe that story is true. Yeah. Again, I don't know for sure, but I do know for sure how the propulsion system works. (laughs) Yeah, that's something you can't hang your hat on. What I find really fascinating is that like everything that you read about Project Galileo ended up being true. Right, that's it. Another notch you gotta move forward. Everything I read about my project, Project Galileo was, in fact, accurate. So just maybe everything else was too. Yeah. But also could just be passage material. Maybe not. Yeah. Let's see, you gotta be careful there. Yeah, I mean, we'll move past this in a sec. I just wanna kind of wanna talk a little bit about some of the memories that came back from that. There were also sort of this, there was like this general impression that there was some genetic modifications that they were doing to the human race that they were suppressing consciousness to a certain extent in these documents as far as you, as far as you can remember, is there any, did that ever disturb you going forward like after that, or did you really just like kind of categorize that as this could be BS? Yeah, that really set off the BS alarm. Okay. I said, you know, there's, you know, they claim there was many corrections to the genetic evolution of humans and just all kinds of other wild claims that had no proof to back them up whatsoever. And I really didn't put much credence in it at all, so I just brushed it off. Okay. So now you read these documents, you're getting a little more prepped. They're surrounding you with all these guards, these people, they're giving you documents to read that strange files. Yeah, but I still don't know what I'm really working on. I'm still expecting a very advanced jet fighter at this point. You know, so I don't, I think they're just testing me with all this, what if we gave you information about flying so I was like, would you tell anybody about, you know, I would, I'm staying with the program. And yeah, I'm expecting me brought in there and seeing, you know, you know, F32 or something like that. And you know, that's when they brought me into Barry. So you meet Barry, he gives you a tour prior to seeing the craft, obviously. You get all the propulsion stuff now. You get all the, yeah. He has the, part of the propulsion system laid out on all that and really can't wait to show me. And he says, you're gonna love this. And there's the small reactor. There's the gravity amplifier and the emitter on another table. And the system is running and you know, he said, try to put your hands on the sphere there, which I did and I, when I got close to it, I couldn't. They, it pushed off just like the like poles of a magnet, if you ever play with two big magnets. But with my hands, oh my God, what? Is this it's a, it's a real force field. And he said, no, just try with all your might. And I, I did and you can't move in inch, the first, maybe two or three inches is somewhat elastic. But after that, you're, you're not getting anywhere. And the thing he, he shut it off. And the reactor is kind of a hemisphere on a plate. And he moved it. And he said, it's not connected to the bench and turned it on again. And he said, push on it and pushing on it. So I mean, what he was showing me was the force was not being transferred to that. Or even if you couldn't touch it, you would think it would slide away. But it, it wasn't. So the force is just going away. It's not being transferred to the device that's repelling it. And this stuff was an amazing man. And I, and then he showed me what this is actually doing is powering this emitter here. And then he showed me how that worked. And then he also mentioned, and you'll notice nothing's connected together. I, you know, where are we? This is like the twilight zone. So it was, this was really, really blowing me away. And like, is this what powers, you know, the aircraft? And he said, what did they explain to you? I said, nothing, they just, you know, I just read these briefings and, you know, Barry went over everything with me. And this is when I really realized, okay, where we are reverse engineering something that some other entities made. And, you know, this is where it became real for me. When Barry went over everything that you had gone through, how long was that little brief for that, that Barry gave you? Was that like a 30 minute spieler? Was that like, no, it was like a couple hours because, yeah, because every time, you know, Barry would go, yeah, and there's this, I went, stop, you know, and what do you mean there's this? And, you know, we'd have to explain every last, you know, a bit of what he's learned from that point. I said, okay, now let's go to here. How come this, how did you turn this off? And, you know, it, so it took a long time of me constantly stopping him. Yeah, in shock, I bet just constantly. Yeah, but it was great because I really felt like I was privy to information that only a few people had. And like, oh, this, we could control the world with this stuff. But, you know, we had no idea how it works. So, that was, that was kind of hard to ask. Wow, that must have been so exciting for Barry, honestly, as well. Yeah, yeah, he was, you know, I'm thinking of you really excited about it. Working alone, possibly just lost his partner. Don't know how long ago, you know, and then someone new comes along who's like a, like a puppy. Yeah, yeah, it's like a guy showing off his new car. Exactly. This, yeah. And he, you know, how cool that he gets to be the one. Yeah. To tell you this stuff is real, you know, with certainty and show you. Yeah. That's, that's got to be such a cool moment for the both of you to experience. But this, this is all, is this all lighthearted still? Is this all like excitement based and or or initially it was that day? Yeah. And then, I mean, quickly things, it seems like they were in a, you know, in a rush to do anything to find out anything. So we had to get down to work eventually quickly. And a lot of it was boring work. It was, it was not exciting. It was making small changes and, and, you know, analyzing different parts of the, you know, from, although there were different groups that dealt with like the materials, the metallurgy, the craft and what everything was made of. And, you know, we had more of the, dealt with more of the interaction of the components and how they actually propelled the craft. And it was, I think it was another day or two days before I actually got to see the craft because we had to know if the placement had anything to do with it. And really they weren't even anxious to let us look at the craft. But, you know, we kind of campaigned for that. Look, it might be, everything works as no wires anywhere. It might be that placement is critical on this stuff. We have to see how it's laid out in the craft and it was kind of like, okay, you can go on and see it. I see. So that's when we were, you know, actually allowed to see it. And that's when the world opened up to me. It's like, Jesus. Yeah. Right. So now walking into that space for the first time was, Barry was with you. Yep. Right behind me. I walked in first. Was he like poking you and the ribs being like, wait, he's. No, no, no, no, it's just by the way. No, he was probably just looking at my reaction. Yeah, just watching you light up. Yeah. Um, so you see this craft where you prompted prior to entering the room with anything. Do you remember if they were like, hey, you know, keep your head down. No. Nothing just walked in. No, when I, the first time, well, I had actually seen the craft. That's actually the second time I saw the craft. The first time I saw the craft, I can't.
and through a hangar door. And this is where the days kind of get mixed up. I think it was the third day I was there. I came in through, instead of going around the side of the building, the bus stopped at the first hangar door that was open. So that's when I went out that way. - I see. - And Dennis led me in. And that's the first time I saw the craft. And I slid my hand along the craft as we were walking in. And that's the first time I was reprimanded by a guard. Keep your hands down, your eyes forward, and go through the door. So that's the first time I saw the craft. When I first came in with Barry from that day, with the first time I was allowed in the craft. - And that was the first time you were aware that the craft was extra terrestrial. Because prior to that, you just saw it. - Yeah, prior to that, when I came in and walked in that way, they had where the hatch part was, they had an American flag stuck on there, reversed for whatever reason. And so I thought that's a fighter. - Yeah, that's what people are seeing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I have these days screwed up 'cause it gets confused in my mind. But anyway, so I came in there and still in my mind that was an American built thing. But it was, again, when I was in with Barry, and we saw the gravitational pulse in system at working how it repelled and talking to him, that's when I realized this is a machine from another entity. And when we came in and walked in the hanger that day, I looked at this completely in a different light. And we walked up the stairs they made for it. And clearly it wasn't made for a human to get in because you had a crawl in and you couldn't really even stand up until you were almost in the center. But we looked around and saw, he showed me where the reactor is and how you can look down into where the emitters are and the third level and the craft. And it was, but that was all very amazing to say the least. Was there a feeling of an alteration of environment when you entered the craft as opposed to when you were outside it, did you feel like there was a static charge or like it was colder or it had a smell to it? Was there anything? - No, it was just an ominous feeling. - Yeah, just a feeling. - Because it's all, you know, everything's the same color. Everything has the same radius of curvature to it. No, the only sharp edges and the whole thing are the reactor plate that it sits on. But everything else has a curve to it. Everything is the same material and the same color. So it feels, you know, otherworldly. - Yeah. - You know, when you're in there because, you know, human environment's a full of different colors, different textures, you know, different angles. But it's not there. It's just, it's weird. - And just a way. - And just a tiny valley type like this isn't. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's a really, and it's, it's just automatically uncomfortable. It's just, we're so used to something else. It's like, you know, people say, "Well, it must have been so cool." No, it was not cool at all. It's like, I actually wanted to go back out. It was cool to look at it, but it's a really creepy feeling in there. It's really ominous. - Almost like you're not supposed to be there. - Yeah. Yeah, that's the actual feeling I think I said. It's like, I just felt like I shouldn't be in there. - That's how I thought when I first put on the goggles. - Oh, really? - That's exactly what I said is like, I don't, I feel like I shouldn't be here. - Yeah, that's weird that that translates. - Yeah. - You know, into that. To me, that tells me that Luigi got it exactly right. - Yeah, you worked with Luigi for three years, building us for building, you know, the bush, the, you know, the cafeteria, all these like, different, like the hallway, all this, but the craft is like, this is the magnum opus. This is like the thing that you had to rebuild and you had to make perfect. Now, if I look behind me here, there's like a little model that you'd made the maker's model of like the UFO, which was 148 scale, you know, back in the day, but this was a totally different. - Oh yeah. - You went deep on this with Luigi. - Yeah. - This is, how close is the craft to your memory of the craft when you see it through the eyes of S4, the Bob was our story and project rabbit or? - Now, that's, I have to say, I mean, even being conservative, it's 100%. I mean, we went through it again and again. Now, I may not be recollecting it at 100%. But from what I remember, that is 100%. That's exactly the way it looked. I mean, there's some question, was there another bump onto the black insulating ring? - Yeah, sure. - I don't remember, but this is what was in my mind. So that's, like I said, Luigi's images are like they were downloaded from my brain. They're exact. Seeing this thing in project gravetors, well, in the documentary, when the door's open and it starts hovering and it goes outside. - Now, I didn't see that. - Right. But you've seen the craft elevate. - Yeah, I mean, the one time. - The one time we were allowed. - Yeah. - Barry and I were working in the lab and then Dennis came in and he said, hey, there's a test flight going on. Why did you guys come out? And there was one of the doors in the lab led right to the big hanger. So we could open that and we were there. So it was already out on the lake bed. So I don't know if they hovered it out there or hovered out or what the deal was. But there was clearly somebody, and this is one of the things that still confuses me to this day. It has a gravity field around it. And that's gonna bend everything from light to electromagnetic waves and all that. Yet there's a guy on a desk with a conventional HF radio, or VHF radio talking to someone inside the craft. Now that should be impossible. It just, it shouldn't work at all. - True. - But yeah, it did. So I had, I had a lot of questions about how that was even working. And that caught my eye. And I know where the craft was out there. And that be, some time went by and then the craft began to lift silently off the ground. There was a little bluish purplish glow on the bottom, which was just kind of a corona discharge because the craft produced high voltage on its skin, which by the way, if you shorted it out, that didn't do anything different. So it's just like anything you changed in the craft, it didn't care about. - Wow. - You know what? So once it lifted, it just stayed there for a while. And Dennis told me, go out and go under the craft. - Dennis told you that. - Yeah, yeah. And Barry stayed there and I said, okay, so I walked out there, you know, kind of looking up the craft. And as I walked out, I looked back to Dennis, like, am I doing the right thing? And, you know, he pointed up to look at the craft. So I did. What I was seeing was the light bending around the craft, which was just incredibly awesome. So I took a step back and I could see the edge of the craft and I went back under it. But also the other thing that hit me at the time was, it's not transferring its weight to the ground. You know, if you have something and you, you know, you're producing a force and pushing on it, it's just, it's not on a pedestal where it's taking the weight of the craft and transferring it to the ground. The weight is just gone. So I'm under it, I'm not getting crushed by it. I can walk freely and I can't see the craft. - No wind, nothing. - No, no, there's nothing at all. No sound and I step back and then I can see the edge of the craft come back into view and walk back. And I mean, that's amazing. - Yeah. - That's an imprint in my brain that'll live forever. It's, yeah, so the mass is being canceled out there. It's not being transferred down. It's not standing on a pedestal of antigravity. It's just going away. - Yeah, that is, that is so weird to think about because it's so unnatural and unlike anything you would. - Yeah, but imagine if you could control that. Right? You could do, I mean, what you could do. It's like, I'm so jealous of their technology. So yeah, okay. So in the hanger, we see this craft. Now in Gravitor, they've recreated the craft. They've recreated the flight characteristics of it. They've recreated in this in blender and all these, these other softwares and whatnot.
You're getting to relive this. Is there a point, and I just want to, I kind of want to make this point for the audience because I want them to eventually experience this too and I want them to support the project and go, check it out because it will, I think, change a lot of people's perception. One way or another if you don't believe the story, if you believe whatever it is, it'll change your perception of it because it'll put you in that space. Did you feel at any point like, man, people are going to understand now what I saw, like when you were in this, when you're watching this with your own eyes, do you feel like, oh, this will help people understand what I saw. - And I saw the Ouija's graphics. - Yeah, I did. Yeah, does some extent. - Does that make you feel, does that? - Yeah, because a lot of people had just wrong ideas of it. I mean, even when Ouija released the first image of it in the hangar, you had a bunch of people come out, oh my God, so that's, I always thought I had some kind of landing gear in. People had all these other preconceived notions that was going on. Some guy said, clearly it's the whole things alive because from what you said, it's impossible to see the American flag. - That's right. - On that. And Ouija did everything exactly to scale and put the camera exactly. And if you walk by, you can see the flag exactly where I said. So I thought, to some extent, it's certainly going to prove some of the things I said. But you always have the people that are just really don't care. They're gone, oh, it doesn't matter. This is all nonsense. - Sure, yeah. I'm fine with that, that's okay. - Okay, so this is the second time you see the craft, the first time you're allowed entering it. Now just a backup, the first time you see the craft when you were walking by through the hangar and touching it, was this also the time you saw the officer talking to, quote unquote, the kid or the, what they called the kids or this small, whatever it was, whether it's a doll or whether it's a, was that at that point or was that later? I think it was at that point. - Yeah, when you were walking through it, you felt like glass. - And then we went straight out, there's a door straight in the back and hangar to the right side. And then the door across from that, these doors have like a, I don't know, 12 inch wire piece of glass in them. And as I turn the corner, I looked in there, and there were just some guys in lab coats looking down at one of the seats. And I, I think they had a mannequin or something in there so they could just see, well, how big would the creature be if I sat in the chair and they're measuring things and looking at it. And I had mentioned that before and people said, oh, well, you saw an alien. - Oh, I see. - An alien is working with them. I said, no, no, no, no, no, I think these guys are trying to figure out how big something would be if it would set. - If that was the chair. - So yeah, I don't, I don't believe there was, any aliens around there. - Yeah, it didn't have like a large head and like a blue jumpsuit or anything to it. - No, no, no, no, no, I think they were, you know. - Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. What's interesting too is that, you know, the chairs have some significance because you'd mentioned while you were in there, the one thing they didn't allow you to play with was the chairs. - Yeah, I wasn't, yeah, and there's a no fooling around with the chairs. Like if they were just chairs, and I say, the only reason, I think Barry and I call them chairs is 'cause they look like chairs. But again, I have no information about those. They may not have anything to do with being chairs. And when you really look at it, look, there's three of them. You know, when I try at formation, one of them, right in front of it, is the waveguide. Why would you ever put a chair? I mean, you're gonna sit there and there's gonna be a pipe in front of your face. So it's like the worst seat in the saucer. And then there's two other chairs, you know, on either side of that. They do all face to one archway. And when we were in there, Barry and I looking at the reactor on the ground, there was another group of two guys in there that had light that was shining on, you know, the superstructure as archways all around it. And whatever they were doing caught my attention because one of those archways became transparent when they were playing around with it. So these seats were aimed towards that. So, you know, was that a window? Could all the archways do that? Were those really seats? Or is it just a coincidence that they energized that and, you know, right? Was that also the archway that had the writing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. After it stayed clear for a bit, it turned blue and then there was writing that looked, I don't know how to describe it, but if you look at Korean and if you make it italic, it looks something like that. Can I pull up a picture of some writing? And maybe you can tell me if that looks like it. Okay, hold on. 'Cause I just wanna pull up some writing of another case that, so there's that. No, no, no. Different from this. Yeah, totally different from that. Okay. And then I have another, I'm taking this time because I think a lot of people would appreciate like some either confirmation or whatever, so you can stop speculating about their own alien writing. This is from another sort of leak. I bet I could find it. Nope. Nope, not that either. 'Cause this one does look a little more like Asian writing, a little bit more like Tonji or not quite it. Nope, nope. 'Cause there is the writing that you guys did on on the project ravitor. Yeah, it's much closer to that. Huh. It's not, no, that's saying it's Korean. It's not, but there's lots of circles and lines. And the shapes were doing this kind of thing. Yeah, also, which is, yeah, that's so strange. It's weird in itself. Yeah. Very alien. Very on par alien. But remember, they were playing, like we're playing with that system, so maybe that wasn't the way it was supposed to be. At that point, you were drawn to it. Yeah. Yeah. And then immediately, again, pay attention to what you're doing here. That's not what you should be doing. It was very like, hey, don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were constantly concerned about getting in trouble. We had ruined everything. Because maybe that had something to do with the power and propulsion system, we need to talk to these guys. There needs to be free discussion for science to move forward. But compartmentalizing everything, to keep everything completely secret, yeah, your tie in yourself up. Do you think the chairs, if they are chairs, which I think they are, by the way? 'Cause they're very well. Low ceiling, I mean, there are probably little guys sitting in there, or little genderless aliens, whatever they are. Do you think that those chairs could have something to do with the sort of steering capability of the craft? Maybe. I mean, maybe if you were sat there, you had some type of like, you know, connection. They were all equal distant from the reactor at that point. And, you know, the fact they were all pointing in one direction. My guess is, from the way the craft operated and traveled, if you were gonna sit there, it would only be for a short time. It's not like you're gonna sit there for an hour to go anywhere. Yeah. It's just gonna be minutes. So, because of the rate of travel. So, you know, the seats, obviously, they're not padded or anything. It's just a cut out, a smooth cut out that you sit in. So it's just like you're gonna sit in, and we're there and, you know, get up again. But maybe that had something, the placement had something to do with controlling the craft. Yeah. 'Cause there are, I mean, you look back at like other crashes, or ledger crashes that happened, whether it's Roswell or Aztec or these type of things. And Aztec actually, they had, there was some symbols in that craft that they, and I might pull those up and show you those, 'cause those might actually know that I think about it. But it might also have something to do with, you know, if there were, you know, living beings and three of them. Maybe the reactor only puts out a field so big to protect them from inertia, it would kind of a splatter. Yeah, so they're immune to all the effects of the, the way the craft's operate, and they just need to sit there to be protected. Right. So it could just be that, just a place, you know, just to sit for all the action to take place, and then you can get up and, you know, we're there, everybody does embark. But that's interesting, though. So it's like they knew how to fly.
these things obviously to maybe a limited capacity, but they did know how to like the craft that was in the air that you saw was the craft, the same craft that you were in. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it wasn't like they needed you to figure out how everything sort of worked together. They had that figured out. Yeah, and look, we keep trying to put a pilot in there. Maybe there isn't. Right. Yeah, our cars and, you know, just recently developed flying cars and stuff are autonomous. That's right. Maybe that is. It has nothing to do with it. They sit in there and just run the program. We're home. We're to Earth or wherever you're going. Nobody needs to pilot anything. Maybe the fact that there were pilots in there doesn't necessarily rule out the autonomous theory as well. Yeah. They might be part of the craft. Yeah, that's true. That's true. And just a biological component. Okay. So, I mean, you got to stand in the craft. You got to, you know, what's interesting too is that, you know, you'd mentioned the tripod lights before and how, you know, when you were creating the craft with Luigi for the documentary, you got in there realized, oh, there's no light. Luigi's like, there's no light in there. How do we see it? And you're like, right, they had a tripod light. You went back, you found the exact model that they used and put that, shine it turns out, doesn't really light up the craft much. But one thing that struck me from seeing that and maybe this also, maybe you also felt this, but you had these stairs, right, that they rolled into like sort of crawl into the craft. But then there's this orange extension cable. Yeah. I mean, there were black and decar extension cords everywhere, which kind of connected this thing to earth, you know, you did more real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just, nothing is going to work without an extension cord. Yeah. But yeah, just to power the lights inside and other tools and things. That was one moment for me seeing this that really, yeah, really cemented this how far we are from what we're dealing with here is that we have this orange cable just dangling outside of this pristine, you know, beautiful, perfect craft. Yeah. This Ferrari of the universe, right? Yeah. We're not even worthy to dismantle it. Yeah. And we have this strange cable being plugged into a wall and they're like, don't trip on that cable. Yeah. Okay. Now, you see the panel go transparent. I'd mentioned to you before the podcast as well as really, really interesting because in the Aztec case, again, I bring back the Aztec case, there was a witness at Wright Patterson who had also seen the craft go transparent due to an injection of like high voltage. So again, this idea of like high voltage energy, a lot of weird things start happening and he could see through the craft, but it was like blurry. Yeah. I mean, that kind of all fits because first of all, we know there's high voltage on the craft because it lifts off the ground. You can see it and we can measure it. So, you know, there's a high voltage potential. Excuse me on there. And yeah, the craft wasn't perfectly clear. It was kind of looking like through a shower door to some degree. Not totally refraction. No, just, you know, that milky white maybe sand blasted look or something like that. Just not translucent, not transparent. Right. Almost camouflage. Yeah. But I mean, you could see people out there. You just couldn't really identify them. You know, so. Yeah. Really interesting. It's interesting because it's, you know, as someone who's looking into this stuff, I'm seeing I'm piecing together like all these different things and now like, wait a second. Yeah, well, you have knowledge of a lot more, you know, other UFO in front. I don't really follow any UFO stories or lore or researches. So, yeah, you could probably plug more things together than I could for sure. Okay. So, craft out of the way, we're back in the lab, we're doing some tests. Now there's something that I did want to touch on. There was two instances with some of the tests that you did that really, really stood out to me and I'm sure stood out to you to a greater degree. One involved time dilation, it would seem with a candle. Yeah, yeah. And the other was what only I can describe as like a miniature black hole. Okay. Because when Barry, we were working in the lab and when he has the entire system connected together, so the gravity, gravity amplifier is, gravity emitter is emitting. Yeah. So, it's producing, it's a gravitational wave. And he can rotate the emitter and the effect changes the output. So one thing he showed me was he took a candle and lit it and put it in the focal point of the emitter and he turned it, you know, and normally the flame is, you know, moving to some degree and because of convection and, you know, it went out from the heat. And the flame stopped and he said it's, that flame is frozen in time. And I said, it can't be because I can see it. If it was frozen at time, there wouldn't be photons emitting from it. He said, no, it's frozen in time. Look at it. You know, and I went up and spec'd it. I couldn't get my hands in there because he said not to for whatever reason. And clearly the candle was frozen and he moved or rotated the emitter and it became a candle again. And he said, watch what happens when we go way past that. And he turned it at, now I can see if the emitter is sitting there and you can see across the table, you can see the other wall and our desks and that sort of thing. So he rotates the emitter further than he did before and a little black dot, a little ball forms there. How big about, I don't like that. Like a baseball. Yeah, or maybe a tennis ball, something like that. Maybe even a little smaller. And he said, that's the light bending away from there. So I got right up to it as close as I could safely gum to it and it was a completely dark spot there. And it was a little black hole, but it wasn't affecting anything else in there. I mean, if it was a black hole, there'd be books flying and things getting sucked in here. But it was just sitting there quietly only bending light. And how could you, how can you do that? Even if you had a machine that made gravity, how can you selectively pick photons to distort or move and attract to and nothing else? So I mean, everything was amazing about this. You had a laser test too that you did with this, didn't you? I did that at home. Oh, yeah, that's a different story. Yeah, that I did at home. I see. But yeah, that's, yeah, I'm kind of so upset when I self to some degree that things didn't work out and I didn't allow them to do that because I have such a desire to know more about what we had there. And to this day, I wonder what, you know, it's been 35 years, what they came up with. Maybe they know everything about it. Maybe they haven't learned one thing. I mean, I'd like to know, you know, I'd like to say I'm sorry. Can I get back in the project? Yeah. You know, I hear that. Do you think Barry's still working there? 35 years? No. Probably not. Probably tired. Yeah, yeah. It'd be an old guy. Yeah. Maybe he's watching this. That'd be great. That'd be great. And then you want to say to Barry, give us a call. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. That's, I mean, those experiments are wild seeing a flame stop. It must be so jarring because like, I mean, I work, I can show you some illusions after this. Yeah. That are like kinetic and that are, and they will trip your senses. They will absolutely play with your perspective and create anomalous visual, you know, perception of events that shouldn't be, that should be completely impossible. They'll change even how things move in time. They will, you know, there's certain illusions I have. Those are illusions made, and I know how they work. Yeah. So, you know, when you have something that, you know, you try to look at and you just can't figure it out and your brain glitches out with like how it works. And a lot of people experience that with magic tricks. When they're trying to explain it and they just can't, and eventually they have to give up and they have to just unwillingly suspend their disbelief because, you know, they're, they're right. They just can't. Yeah, they just can't figure it out was, I mean, that must have felt like a bit of a magic trick to you in the sense that not only did it fool you.
But you probably also got disenchanted from it to a certain extent. Well, yeah, certainly those that I can't interact with, you can just see those two tests. But things like feeling the field on the reactor where you can interact with it and you can shut it, you know, turn it on and shut it off. That's not disenchanting, that's frustrating because I can touch it and I can see it's working. And I want to know how to make this work, you know, and again, walking under the craft, I saw this thing in the hanger and I'm looking above it and I can't see it and I take a step back and it's there. I must know how this works. Yeah, it's just, it is a very driving factor. I can see that about you as well as we walked in, I have the shelf filled with like knick knacks, puzzles and, you know, just whizzing gadgets. Kind of like a sort of, you know, toy factory over there and I have all these little trinkets and I could see you immediately. You picked one up and I told you, oh, that's a puzzle. Yeah, that was, it will kill me. You had to put it away. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I think we suffer from the same affliction when it comes to, you know, wanting to know how things work and just things will bug me. Yeah. I have to figure it out and, you know, that's the other thing about magic is that like there is a method for everything, even if it looks impossible. Right. There's a method. Right. As there is for this, you know, what's after you got out of there, after you've worked with all that stuff, what would be your best educated guess as to how some of that works? Like what's here? What's your best working theory? I'm sure you've thought about it long and hard. Like what's, what do you gather from all of that and like this is, this is kind of what I have to go to bed with at night? It's kind of hard to say. It's kind of hard to say because it's, a lot of it's just a guess. I mean, the reactor itself appeared to be powered by a super heavy Yomlant element 115. They've synthesized that, but what we had was a stable version of it. And you know, there are isotopes of many elements. Some of them, they're all the same element, but some are stable and some are unstable. This one was a stable version of element 115. Clearly you said there's something unique about that because that was in the reactor. And from what we can ascertain from X-ring, the reactor, the base plate, it looked like a little accelerator, like a little cyclotron. So it looked like there's some nuclear manipulation going on there where they're bombarding the target, the element 115 sample in there and it's producing some kind of effect, producing some kind of gravitational effect. And I'm not even sure it's gravity. This time goes on, I'm increasingly convinced that there's another force of nature that gravity is only the property of mass. We're just, you get enough mass together. It has gravity, little mass, just little gravity. Gravity, yeah. Well, well, gravity. Gravity. Actually, gravity B. Yeah. Or gravity B, right? Yeah. It's just on a large scale. You get a whole planet. Yeah. It can pull rock towards it and hold people on it and, you know, that thing. It's not a very strong force. But we call this anti-gravity because there's nothing else to call it because there's no other propulsion system and it lifts up and it ignoring gravity. So we call it an anti-gravity. But I think it's, I think there's another force that we haven't discovered. And that's what, that's what this machine is taking advantage of. And I think we're just left to discover how it works or even discover the force itself. But I don't, I don't think it's actually gravity. I think it's, it's just another force that repels. Hmm. So I don't know where to go with that, but I just, I'm, I am increasingly believe that's the case. Yeah, because it doesn't behave like gravity should, like gravity shouldn't be manipulatable to that extent. No, no, and there's no evidence that gravity works that way. So it's, I think there's a good chance it's something else that, that works similar to it. Or that's interacting with gravity or interacts with it. Yeah. But we just haven't stumbled on it yet. But, you know, or maybe we have, like I said, 35 years has gone by and there's been other people tinkering with that stuff. And I can only hope so as just I haven't seen anything flying around that it works like that. Yeah. Man, I would give anything to see something flying around that works like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, but once you see it, you've seen it. Yeah. You know, I mean, the drive you have, you know, to know and, you know, boy, I'm really into you, oh, foes, I like to see that, you know, it's like really wanting to see a movie. You know, I can't wait till the next Star Wars comes out. I'm so excited and all that. You know, and after you see it, it's gone. You know, I mean, once you see how the technology works and all that and, you know, people, I, how come you're not, you know, following this or going, I mean, going to you have hope conventions as that. The amazement's gone. I see what's going on. I got to touch it. I got to work with it. And, you know, the only thing that's driving you is not knowing. But once you know, it takes the wind out of your cells. It's kind of like a magic trick. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. You know, but what that's exactly like a magic trick, really. Yeah. Well, what I enjoy about magic now is being able to see it and others. Is that so? See, that's why Barry was so excited. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was able to show, you know, show you the magic and then ruin the magic for you. Right. Right. All right. I got a little list of things I just want to get through real quickly about gravator, about, you know, all this stuff, this here. We pretty much ran through all of that. There are rumors, just to clear the air type deal. There are rumors that underground facilities at S4 existed, were you ever aware of that? Was that ever brought up? Did you ever hear of that or see anything? I didn't hear or see nothing. No talk about it. Yeah. I can't say that they weren't there. No, yeah. I did not see them. I never saw any down staircases. I never heard a person talk about it. So, I just don't know. Great. There was one time you got to see down the hangar. This is another again, you know, if you guys are looking to experience what, you know, some of what Bob experienced, check out Project Gravator because there is a point where you walked into the hangar. The one time all the hangar doors were open. Yeah. And you quickly got to see down this massive like silence. That's a huge house. The outside doors were closed. You got the ins, they were large inside bay doors for each one. One time I went in there, all those bay doors were open and I walked in from the lab door, which is directly across them all. And you could see inside every hangar, you know, a part of a craft. You know, I think you could see it these three after that. It was too far away to see. But yeah. Yeah. You can see there were other crafts. And, you know, there was obviously a lot more going on than I was being exposed to. Yeah. There were probably other propulsion teams working simultaneously. No doubt. You saw like this jello mold one, which was like, there was a jello mold. There was one that looked like a carnival hat, which was just square. And that was standing up and had a hole through it. Like it had been shot with a projectile from underneath and the metal was bent up. And that one is said to be found in the water too, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a navy is behind all this stuff. Yeah. It's a, I'm just fascinated what might be going on in the water. I don't know if it was the ocean or lake or whatever, but, you know, what has the water got to do with all this stuff in the navy? So it's, I'm fascinated by that. Yeah. I feel like if the craft like this could have transmedium capability, right? This is what a lot of, you know, what's coming out right now is that these things are able to travel not only through air frictionless, but through water as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It should, should present no problem at all. Then, you know, would, would that stop at water? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, would they be able to go through solid matter? Right. I mean, maybe there's a limit, you know, a density limit. Yeah. Maybe, you know, liquid falls within that limit that you can penetrate through. Maybe if it increases, you know, density increases paths there, you cannot go through. Yeah. Or maybe it's free to just, they could go through mountains or, you know, who knows, but that would even be, that would even be crazy. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I could. Thank you.
about that. Yeah, I only know what to make of that. But in the water, it seems like a good place to hide if you were. Yeah, since it's the planet's almost all water, you can hide an entire civilization down there and we'd never know. Yeah, you wouldn't have to go to the back side of the moon or to Mars or no, especially if they could go deep. Yeah, they could just hang out down there and they have no chance of running into us. Yeah, there's been some, you know, a lot of talk of that actually being a case we had. Luel is on do here on the podcast. I won't point I'm sure you're familiar with Lu. But he, you know, he'd said as well that they had footage, apparently. This is a sap or a tip, or I don't know, one of these one of these programs that had footage crystal clear for K footage of a giant round mass traveling at 500 knots. And this is a massive thing like bigger than he's like the size of a city block. And it was traveling at 500 knots. There's like 500 miles an hour underwater. Underwater. Underwater. Oh, okay. And this is spotted out by like an oil rig and like multiple witnesses and like top down footage of it. So I'm guessing satellite footage. Keating wanted to all of that, but I'm put it together. He said it was round. So I assume it's from the top. So it's probably satellite footage. But yeah, this thing traveling and then also Tim Gallaudet, who is a Navy rear admiral, also said that they had encountered large crafts moving at four to 500 knots underwater. That's unreal. Yeah, that's unreal. Yeah. So I mean, especially something that size, you know, we're not talking about a pencil moving at 500 knots, but no a city block moving at that. Yeah, you're not doing that without really advanced technology. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it seems like that would be the place to look while everyone's looking up in the sky and into space, you know, maybe a lot more of the activity. And that would probably explain why the Navy was so heavily invested. I think I'm just done to the impression they happened onto it at one time. And they were just, you know, they had dibs on it. They ran into it in some way and it became theirs. Yeah, because like a lot of the, you know, when you came out initially with this, this is the first time people heard about an intact sort of crash retrieval or retrieval of like a spaceship. Every, I say spaceship, but again, you know, maybe lived in the ocean. But these things, you know, tended through stories at least to be debris or wrecks or everything else. So I mean, if the Navy finds these intact in the water, it would put them at the front of, you know, this whole thing. It's really interesting. Okay. Last, I want to, I want to just ask you about a few people. Travis Walton, you're familiar with his story. Yeah. Yeah. So what I find fascinating about Travis other than his testimony, because I do believe, I believe he's telling the truth as he knows it. I think he, yeah, Luigi, Luigi, I think knows him well or met him. Yeah. Yeah. He sounds like an interesting guy to talk to. I hope to in the future at some point. I get to that doctor. Yeah. Well, I would, I'd be honored to facilitate that event. If, if ever you choose to, you know, I'll, I'll move, I'll move mountains. I think that would be really interesting, because one of the reasons is the craft that he describes. I mean, it sounds a lot like the craft that you worked on. Oh, really? Yeah. Even so much is sort of the arches. Now with, with his craft, he saw it, the only time he saw like the exterior was, he was always under it. But it had those sort of like arches under it, right? When it glowed. So it was like glowing. And yeah, so there was, I've always, I've always thought that like, you guys should meet and talk about this craft because there might be, yeah, I like to, there might be some similarities. The second similarity of crafts, and this is where it becomes a little bit more contentious with, I'm sure a lot of people out there, Billy Meyer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I've seen Billy Meyer images. Yeah. Luigi has a poster one. I mean, one of them, come on, it looks exactly like the sport model. Yeah, it looks exactly like it. So you, you can't tell me that's a fake picture. It's impossible. Yeah. So, I mean, that's where it becomes like incredibly confusing with Billy Meyer because you look at some of his other photos, and I'm sure that you feel this way too. Yeah, some of them are not like, what is this? Yeah. This is like almost like a, you know, but this is something I think, a friend of mine, Gene Huff called UFO researchers syndrome. You get some of these guys that are really into it, and they start bringing some facts forward and, you know, begin to get attention. They, you know, give lectures and things like that. And then, you know, maybe they had some initial citing or information. They work for the Navy or Air Force or something, and, you know, it kind of dies away and they begin missing the attention. And then their story begins to expand a little bit. And oh, wait, I forgot to tell you, you know, and, you know, their attention comes back. And, you know, that keeps increasing. And then I, then also, the Martian said, you know, and then you have some, you know, ridiculous thing. And I think my own personal opinion, I think, Billy Meyer did have some citing, you know, got some pictures that were authentic. And look at the time in the 70s, there was, you know, nothing, there was a Polaroid and it's not like you can fake anything. Yeah. You know, he got a lot of attention, a lot of press and all that. And he was just a one on farmer in Switzerland, if I recall. And, you know, just a lonely guy out there and all the sudden, he's in all the news and all that and then that began to fade away. And I think the same thing happened. Or at least possibly that, wait, here's another flying saucer I've got to tell you about. It looks like a cake, Billy. Yeah. Yeah. And as golf balls stuck to it and sitting in his driveway with a string attached to it. So yeah, I mean, some of them look ridiculous, but I can't explain the similarity to, you know, the sport model. That's why I think I'm convinced that's an actual photograph. If I pull out, I have a book here. If I pull it out, can you point the one you're referring to? Yeah, yeah, sure. Not this one. Yeah. No. Yeah, you're, yeah, you're there. Yeah. All these. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One 100%. Yeah. Even so much is the, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. He's got quite a few. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's it. Now, I mean, the, and I even mentioned that. I don't know if I have the amount of pumps, right? The rings. Yeah. Sometimes it looks different. Maybe it's a different, but I mean, that's it. The sort of port holes or whatever those are. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm 100% behind those. Yeah. 100%. There's no way Billy could have gotten that without seeing it. Yeah. So he might have seen this and then as time went on, yeah. Other things happened and other crafts came into being. Yep. Yeah. Right. But do you think there's a possibility that, um, and this is like purely speculative that afterwards, Billy might have been like messed with or something. That's also a possibility to, you know, because seeing something like that, putting those photos as a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Especially back then. Yeah, especially that craft. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the amount of security that was behind that craft, they did not fly that around willy nilly. No, they're not. Cruiser over Switzerland. Yeah. Now, not at all. Yeah, that's possible. He's a single guy, you know, in the mountains of Switzerland somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to let a guy ruin your security. Yeah. Yeah. That's always, that's always stuck out with me too, is that like it's such a bizarre thing because you mentioned Billy Meyer in today's, you know, day and age people automatically. Yeah. Absolutely. And yeah, I mean, from what I've seen some of the stuff to some of the stuff's ridiculous. Absolutely. Ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And then there's the whole Simeuse, which again, I don't know, is it true? You know, look at this. Come on. That's a hubcap with that. Yeah. It's 100. I could build a better UFO. Yeah. Um, but then the original ones are so, and as a photographer, I love photography, I love it. Like, I mean, the composition and everything, like they were beautiful photos. Yeah. Like really, really beautiful photos. Yeah. Something changed. Yeah. So, but I don't.
I don't claim to know what's going on. I just know that that craft looks a lot like the crafts that I worked on. I mean, 90, 95%. Yeah. And how do you explain that? Yeah. Wow. Incredible. All right. Bob, I got a few questions from some interns. So we have this, we have this membership and interns can ask questions to the guests. They don't know that they're getting to ask you questions as we're pre-recording this. This is only coming out later when the documentary is released. So they had no idea that I was going to have a podcast with you. But I asked them in our little channel. I was like, hey guys, just fun little question. If you could ask Bob one thing, what would it be? And people are just starting to chime it in. So I grabbed a few of those questions and I'm going to pull them up here. I have to just go turn this camera on. Maybe on set. All right. Those crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Like here, some of them are really interesting because if you look at like that one looks a little sus, but if you look at these ones, there's one right here. There's double exposure because the craft moved. Oh, that's interesting. I've never seen this book. This is a fascinating book. This was a gift from Luigi, actually. Really? Yeah. Luigi gave me a picture book. It's much thinner and has a few, not this many pictures in it, but a few of the sport model. Yep. Was that was, they referred to it as a sport model? I referred to it as a sport model. You referred to it as a sport model. Yeah. Everybody picked that up. Yeah. It was a sport model. Yeah. I mean, that's boy, that's something down to the antenna. That's like, that's like right there. You see it right there. Yeah. Even that picture looks weird to me. Well, there's, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if that's a multiple or if it's long exposure, if it's bouncing around, I don't know. Some of them, but again, some of them look real. Yeah. And some of them look absolutely fabricated. Yeah, they look completely fabricated. So, and you know what, he's still around. It'd be nice to hear from him and to get something, you know, get him. I just don't know if. I think Luigi talked to him. Yeah. I love to see something come from that, to be honest. He's somebody I think that I think still needs to be heard in terms of, in terms of that, because I think there is something there. Obviously with, with the craft. All right, I'm going to pull this up. I got to pull my phone out for this. Here is. The first question. This is from a gentleman named Bob Skie. Probably my favorite question. How was the food in Eswar? It was just, what do you call those machines? Like, bending machines? Yeah, it's just bending machines. Like sandwiches and stuff. Yeah. Like EG and G bending machines. No, it was, they were actually old, you know, just generic food-vending machines. You know, they had M&Ms and stuff in there. And they had another one that gave you either coffee or this imitation chicken soup or hot chocolate and, you know, they had ones that had some sandwiches in there. I never had a sandwich from there, but I just did. What was your go-to? My go-to was the crackers with the peanut butter in them. Oh, that's it. Yeah, yeah. Just crackers with peanut butter. Yeah. Low-carb diet. We'll do. All right, we got another one here. Yeah. This seems like a good question. This is from Hara. Hara asks, "If you could have taken one small item from the hanger with you, what would it be?" That's it, tough one. From the hanger. Or from the lab. That's kind of a trick question there. Why is it a trick question? Yeah. All right. Okay. Yeah. Feel free. Yeah, that's fine. There was a story of. Yeah, not a burger camera. Okay, yeah. There was that. Yeah. But that wasn't in the hanger. Oh, that wasn't in the hanger. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to tell a story? Yeah, yeah. Sure. At the time, it was later on in there. I went to Burger King in the morning. And at that time, there were no iPhones or digital cameras or anything. Everything was on film. And they had 110 film cartridges, which were small about that big and had a little round area on each side where the film would go. And Burger King had, I think, if you bought a WAPER, they had a camera, which is just a very small piece that would just snap on to the 110 cartridge and turn it into a camera. So you could take pictures like that, but it was. It only made it like maybe 2 1/2 inches long by 3/4 of an inch to like a rectangle like that. And that I knew I can get into. Yeah. It's a fast forward a bit. My desk had hollow steel legs on it. Yeah. Kind of piece. Yeah. Almost. But with like holes in them. No, no, no. The bottoms were open because one of them had, you know, little plastic caps was missing. So I know it was hollow. So I actually managed to take a single picture of the craft by opening the door and I put the camera in the leg, not knowing because I wanted to see if I could come and go, but I never got to take it out again. So the camera and the picture are still at F4 in that leg. But wow. All right. Well, if anybody's working at F4 right now that's watching this. Yeah. Do us a favor. Grab that camera, upload that picture. We want to see it. That would be so wild that the best picture of a UFO would be taken from a little like a fast food camera or whatever. Okay. Yep. Good enough. All right. This one's interesting. So, gentlemen, take true secret tunnel is his handle and he asks, it's a great question. Oh, no, not at all. No. And I sleep thinking about that technology. If you could ask somebody who worked at us for right now, right? If you could talk to them right now, what's something you'd ask? What range did they work? It just tell me anything. It's having like having a cross with puzzle with nothing in it. Just please put a letter anywhere and I'd be happy. So that's right. Anything, any word that came out of his mouth would be, I'd be super happy. If you could give advice to somebody on their first day at us for, will that be? Just follow the rules. Don't be a jerk. Just go along with the project or else you'll regret it. Bowsar, I appreciate your time. This has been, for me, just one of the greatest experiences of my career getting to speak with you along camera. So I. Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm very, very grateful that you were able to do this and that we were able to connect in this way. It means a lot to me. So thank you. I wish you luck with Project Ravator and S4, the Bob Lazar story. Thank you. I hope that one day you get the answers that you seek. Me too. Thank you, sir. Thank you. [Music]
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The speaker describes a personal experience with extraterrestrial craft, emphasizing an ominous feeling rather than excitement.
He worked on reverse engineering the craft’s power and propulsion system in a project called Galileo.
The craft had non-human characteristics
A CGI simulation by Luigi accurately reproduced the craft’s appearance and eerie atmosphere, including the light behavior.
The speaker met Edward Teller at Los Alamos, which later led to a job offer at EG&G Special Projects and eventually S
Job interviews focused on personal life and hobbies, which was unusual.
He flew to Area 51 via Janet flights, signed security documents, and was supervised by Dennis Mariani.
A pilot who knew Dennis Mariani initially agreed to an interview but later disappeared, a common pattern.
The conversation touches on philosophical ideas about knowledge and observation.
Summary:
The speaker recounts his involvement with extraterrestrial technology, starting with his job at Los Alamos and a chance meeting with Edward Teller. After leaving the lab, he sent Teller a resume, which led to an interview with EG&G Special Projects and eventually a position at S4. There, he worked on reverse engineering a craft of non-human origin, focusing on its power and propulsion system.
He describes the craft as dark pewter, seamless, and perfectly uniform, with no human marks or superfluous details. Inside, light did not reflect or refract, creating an eerie, dark environment even with bright halogen lights. The speaker emphasizes the ominous feeling he experienced, contrasting it with the excitement others assume.
He praises Luigi’s CGI simulation for accurately recreating the craft’s appearance and atmosphere, including the light behavior. He also discusses his first day at the site, which involved flying from Las Vegas to Area 51 on a Janet flight, signing security papers, and being shadowed by his supervisor Dennis Mariani. The conversation touches on a pilot who confirmed Dennis’s presence but later withdrew from an interview.
The speaker reflects on the challenge of remembering details after 35 years and philosophical insights about knowledge and reality.
FAQs
It was not excitement but an ominous, creepy feeling, because it was so different from anything we are used to.
He worked on the power and propulsion system of the craft, which involved reverse engineering extraterrestrial equipment.
The light did not refract or reflect inside; it only lit up where it was pointed, due to the material and angles, not light absorption.
He introduced himself at Los Alamos after Teller saw him on the front page of a newspaper, and they talked about his jet engine car.
The second interview focused almost exclusively on personal questions about his spare time, rather than technical topics.
It had a dark pewter color with no human marks, no superfluous features, and everything had the same material and radius of curvature.
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