Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87

Ladies and gentlemen, a few months after I hosted a podcast featuring the Area 51 whistleblower Bob Lazar, I had met Bob again for a follow-up interview. During this interview, we discuss information that has never been brought forward in the public eye. Today, for the first time ever, Bob Lazar will reveal a brand new name in connection with S4. We've obtained this exclusive deleted scene from the documentary, S4, the Bob Lazar story, featuring a conversation between Bob Lazar and director Luigi Vendetelli. I was also able to ask Bob a few questions regarding his past, regarding John Lear and his relationship to John regarding the liquid that he drank at S4. And just to be thorough, I also interviewed Luigi Vendetelli to fill us in a little bit more about why this pertinent, important piece of information was not featured in his documentary. And if this indeed will help move the needle. You know, there are certain pieces of information that I intentionally keep that there are several pieces of information that I keep to myself. And that the main reason is, you know, in case somebody does claim to be involved with the project or been there whatever, they should be able to tell me those. And I need to keep a certain amount of those. There are other, some technical aspects that I'm just keeping to myself because I need to at this point in time. But if you just essentially want something that I need me to give up just one little thing that I haven't, I can tell you the name of another person that no one has heard of, that worked there. His name was Chuck Payne. Let's pick up where we left off a little bit. Because I had some follow-up questions, you know. For me, that conversation was truly like a canon event in my life. Like that is, you know, it marked like a really important, I feel, turning point in terms of like, oh my god, like this is, if there's anybody out there that I've wanted to interview, it was like, Bob was our Travis Walton, like, these are, you know, and I'm there now and this is kind of surreal to me, you know, and I've had time to sit back and ponder and kick myself or not asking certain questions. So, okay, it's not every day I get to, I get to come back and have a redo. So, I wanted to follow up on a few things that we never covered and that are covered in project gravitore because as you know, by the time this podcast comes out, the movie will have aired. Hopefully. Yes, hopefully. Well, that's the deal. So, this isn't coming out unless it airs. Okay. So, rest assured, the movie's out, you know, go rent it, go buy it, all that stuff. You, in the movie, there is, there are a few revelations that are pretty, earth shattering in terms of this case for a lot of people. There's, you know, there's been a lot of contention on different topics surrounding your story and yourself and your history. But you came forward with a new name, Chuck Payne. Yeah. What, can you tell me what made you withhold that name? As I mentioned before, I always intentionally withheld several things about us for because Chuck Payne was a really well-known guy because he really stood out as this, I don't know, an overt security person. He was so, he played the part well. He was one of the security guards there. I have never mentioned that. This is to bring information. Yeah, I've never mentioned that to anybody. Have you ever mentioned this to George now? No, no. So this is no one as easily the first time. Correct. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, and it was just one of, and the reason why Chuck was a very, of all the security guards around there were very tight-lipped and quiet and really had minimal interaction with them. Chuck was different and he stood out. And if you were at S4, you knew Chuck Payne. You knew Chuck Payne. He just was one of those guys. Hey, how are you doing? I mean, a security guard would never talk to you or say anything. You know, he called Eva. I mean, he was the only one that was just a bit of an extrovert. And he stuck out and he did that to everybody. And I mean, if you were there, you knew heard or saw Chuck Payne. If somebody said, you know, name a guard's name, they'd say Chuck Payne. So, anyway, I get so many comments, emails, or people saying, yeah, I mean, you know, my grandfather worked there or so and so worked there. And it's like, you want to just hold back a couple of minor details and said, okay, if he did, tell me about this, tell me about this, tell me about this. Chuck Payne was just one of those things. Wow. It was just a hold back because if you were there, you would have. Now, by saying that, I've now lost one other thing. Yeah. So, but nothing is, you know, earth shattering critical. There are little things like that. Well, they seem, you know, maybe they're little things, but, you know, for just for good old Chuck out there, he's going, what the fuck? Yeah. Come on, Bob. He doesn't appreciate it. He's like, what the hell, Bob? You think he's still around? Don't know. Yeah. Haven't looked into him. Didn't do any. No, I, I really haven't looked into anybody. But from those that did, it looked like Dennis, my Rihanna died. Yeah. I've had and I heard that. Yeah. I had pictures of a gravestone and, you know, people seem to, this guy, it connects all the dots. This looks like it was the guy. So, I don't know, we're all getting up in age. Yeah. It's possible. Was he older than you or younger than you? He was older than me. He was older than me by a few years or I couldn't tell you. Yeah. Not like terribly old or anything. Yeah. Okay. And this guy was, was this the guy that roughed you up a little bit more than the rest of the security like, was this the guy who like really had it out for you or just they all kind of equally? Yeah. That's why I cross my eyes at that. Yeah. I mean, they're kind of all from the same mold. Yeah. So that's stress and oculation. Yeah. I don't know how, I don't know how things went there with the guards because we were kind of separated from them. But it seemed like he was just on a different level with them. Yeah. I don't know if he was in charge of them. I don't know if he was, he wasn't just one of them. He was a special entity in himself. So I don't know what his rank was. But he was just a different guy. Yeah. And with the name like Chuck Payne. Yeah. And that's what was funny about it. Yeah. I was surprised when he let that out with me in an interview. This was, this happened like over three years ago. So I've been holding this, you know, we've been holding this for ourselves for a long time and kind of an exciting moment. And we're like, do we, do we put this out there? We put, we created the first version, which you saw and it was in there. And everybody liked it. Everybody thought it was great. And then we started looking at it again and thought we didn't expand on it in the film. We just put a little bit in there. He says the name of somebody and that's it. So we had some people say it's kind of a non, it's not necessary in there if you're not going to expand on it. It's just going to piss people off that you put something in there and then there's nothing else. So we decided to take it out. Before we continue, I'd like to say that the Chuck Payne that you are going to find should you Google this name is not the Chuck Payne as mentioned in the interview with Bob that worked at S4. It is a senator and he would probably appreciate if we didn't blow up his inbox. Now that being said, I have done some due diligent research on the name Chuck Payne. And there are many that come up from retired army to intelligence, your guess is as good as mine. We were in Las Vegas when that happened. And we were shooting part, a lot, something that's not in the film is all the footage that we have with Bob was our in the desert with a delorean time machine. That was the time that we went out to Las Vegas, the whole crew of Motivo, aren't my crew and project gravator crew basically. We went out and filmed with a delorean time machine at the desert and we had rented an Airbnb in Las Vegas, which is as a giant mansion so that we could all sleep in the same house. So we were like a whole bunch of people. And it was in the middle of an afternoon, I was showing Bob some stuff. And I'll never forget, he was so, because I also gave us an opportunity to hang out with Bob Lazar while we were there. And I was showing him some of the updates we were making, some of the progress we were making in building S4. And he was really impressed. And you know, we were sitting there and I said, you know, I don't want to push you and I don't want to. I don't know if there's anything that you've ever not said, but it would be so incredible if ever there's something you'd want to share that you've never shared before. I didn't say, you know, you have to give us something. And he immediately looked at me and said, you guys are really doing an incredible job. And I think there's something I can say. I said, okay, he says, we'll talk about that whenever we have a chance. And that's what happened. The really interesting thing about this film and this project, this is while you and I have known each other, you brought to my attention that a pilot had reached out to you. And this came out after my film came out that you were holding it tight, I was holding it tight. He was a co-pilot for EG&G flying the Janet flights into Groom Lake between '87 and '91, something like that. And that's exactly when Bob would have been there. And he said he knew Dennis Mariani. - Speaking of Dennis Mariani, you know, we touched on this a little bit in our previous conversation. We touched on the fact that I had reached out to a Janet Airlines co-pilot that knew Dennis and that, you know, it was also informed of his passing and said that, you know, he'd met Dennis over a dozen times and had exchanged with him just sort of, you know, regular rapport. - It proved one thing, there is a Dennis Mariani did exist. There was a Dennis Mariani that was flying on Janet jets, going to Groom Lake. It proved, look, proved, that's a big word. It helps the argument. That's a better way of framing it. It helps the argument that that could have been reality. And Bob was the guy who mentioned Dennis Mariani. - Something really interesting about Dennis Mariani that I don't think most people piece together is, you know, after you came out, you know, through George Napp and he called you, right? He called you to meet up with you. - Yeah. - How long after was I? - He called to meet at the Union Plaza Hotel. - It wasn't that long, but I couldn't let it-- - It could have been weeks or months, yeah. - No, it wasn't months. I don't think it was months. - Okay, so it was pretty soon after. - Yeah, it was definitely, relatively soon after. - And what exactly do you say to you again? He was like, let's meet up with the Union Plaza Hotel. - Yeah, at this point, I don't remember the exact conversation, but yeah, and I don't remember the reason he gave me, but he was, yeah, to meet at the Union Plaza Hotel. - Now, I mean, between us like, yeah, I was kind of excited. - Really? - Yeah, because he sounded different. He sounded like, you know, it wasn't like, hey, let's meet, it's like, hey, Bob, you know, let's meet at the Union Plaza Hotel. It was a different, it was a different tone of him, so I thought, okay, I don't know, maybe he's gonna be, I don't know. - I know you don't want to speculate, but it's always why I keep stopping myself. And I appreciate that, but also, what other reasons are there? - He might be sympathetic to my attitude or something like that, so, you know, I thought, yeah, okay, okay. - Yeah. - So I caught, you know, I said, this time I want witnesses, had friends come with me, you know, going first that way I, you know, walked around, looked around us. There he is, Gene Huff, I said, that's Dennis Marrani right there, so he had eyes on him too. And, yeah, that's what that was about. - And then you walked up to him and he kind of ignored you or he didn't kind of ignore me. - Yeah, but as I walked in, I saw other faces that I've seen it as for, walk by me, coming from his direction. And I even stopped, Gene and the hallway and said, something's wrong, those guys look familiar. They look like security from us for. And then when I went up to Dennis Marrani, he wouldn't even look at me. I stood right behind him. I stood right next to him and he, just like I wasn't even there. I went, Dennis and no response. So, man, okay, this is weird. And then I was just trying to go to Gene and said, yeah, this whole thing is, it reeks. - Yeah, yeah, something's wrong. - The faces from S4, do you like remember at all what department they were from, or are they security? - No, I think they were security. - They think they were security. - Yeah, it wasn't Chuck. - No. - No, nobody Chuck, he wouldn't let that slide. (laughing) - Wow, okay, so, you know, for me, when I hear this, I think to myself, there's a big hump that people have a hard time getting over. And the hump is why higher Bob, right? Why higher Bob if he's an acquaintance of John Lear? Right, that's like the big thing that people have a hard time getting over. - Really, okay. - Yeah, a lot of people think that because they think, if you're vetting someone for like a really, really top secret sort of reverse engineering, you know, job at S4, why would someone knowingly, you know, who's a friend of this person who's quite loud, you know, and overt with his, you know, conspiracies, why would we hire someone who's associated with someone like that, right? - Well, look at what John Lear was talking about at that time. He said there is over a billion aliens living in the mountains outside of Las Vegas that there is an entire civilization in the sun and that the sun isn't actually hot. It's some special effect and that you can breathe on Venus. I mean, all this nonsense, and I tell Johnny was crazy to his face as if this is all, you know, absolute nonsense. So I don't see, I don't see people taking John Lear as seriously at that time. Now, before that, you know, whether years or whatever, John was a different person and, you know, but as time went on, things he said got crazier and crazier and, you know, I don't really see that being a threat to them. - Yeah, so, well, my point was, I think that, you know, maybe, and this is complete speculation, but it's the only sort of piece of puzzle that I can see fitting or at least help fit. Maybe Dennis had something with you being hired. You know, maybe he had something to do with you being hired. Why would Dennis want me hired? - Well, if anything, it was, it was Teller. - Right, Teller, obviously, now he obviously had weight. - Yes. - And he said, hey, there's this kid in Los Alamos and to give him a shot or whatever, you know, he would have said, and maybe that's all it was needed. Maybe I just lucked out. But I mean, why would Dennis want me hired? Well, maybe Dennis wanted to blow the lid off this thing. You know, he saw what you did. He, for sure, watched Kaleas. He was, you know, oh my God. And then he reached out to you and not in a threatening way, in a way that seemed sympathetic. You know, so for me, if you had a guy on the inside who wanted to blow the lid off this thing and you knew that he was associated with someone who knew very well, you know, the conspiracy world and everything else, you know, maybe he had something to do with like, yeah, you know, this guy, bring this guy in here or something. I don't know, it's a wild grass that straws, I do understand. - It's kind of a long shot, I don't know. But I mean, it's not impossible. And really, who knows, who knows why they hired me? There's a lot, a lot more, a lot more qualified people than myself. But, you know, if they were looking for somebody really outside the box that's not gonna follow protocol. And maybe that's what they were finally fed up with. We're not getting anywhere with this. And let's just get somebody a little left field. - I mean, that's probably the reason. I mean, it's much more likely than, you know, than my hair-brained conspiracy. But I just-- - We'll never know. - It could be, I'm sure it's most likely something either of us are thinking about. - I was just so compelled with the idea that this guy, Dennis, who, the same guy, who'd stare at you for 20 years, minutes in that ride to S4 menacingly creepy. I still have a picture of that in my mind but he's all sitting bouncing on the bus looking at me. I can't you look at something else. It was a new job and a you know unusual circumstances. You just don't want to say anything. So we just kind of yeah weird and awkward. Yeah 20 minutes. There's not even a window to look at. So I just look at the back of the driver's head. So but he's also the guy that was like hey come see this launch outside come see this test flight. Yeah that doesn't seem that seems out of character for a guy who I don't know about that. I mean it was probably important for me to see the you know you have to see look we're yeah we're back engineering power and propulsion and here's it in operation. Yeah so what what I don't get is why we weren't informed earlier on that's right said you know there's going to be a test at two o'clock. You guys get your stuff done. Be out there in the big hanger you know that but instead the craft was already outside and Dennis came in come on you guys so it's like it was the last minute thought now that's what makes less sense. Yeah but that might be a part of the reason like to keep it hush hush and kind of don't tell anybody until it happens type deal maybe compartmentalization and all yeah yeah and again there might be another reason that neither of us are thinking about like maybe we're not supposed to know how it got out of the hanger. Yeah you know what I mean something bizarre like that yeah yeah okay yeah I don't know I had that ruminating like something about this Dennis Marianne character is enigmatic to say the least you know from a lot of people latched on to him you know it's been a lot of time looking for or I guess they finally found him but I mean for years people for some reason that name really clicked and people went after him because that's that's really the guy that would know a lot certainly I'm a lot more than I do yeah I don't know anybody seen nobody tried to care or tracked down Barry and he'd be great for technical information I'd love to know everything Barry knew Barry if you're listening please yeah for each out could you imagine um what do you think Barry's reaction was to you boy I don't know what what I was really concerned is that Barry would be I mean they'd focus some of their anger on Barry you know that that he'd have there be a price to pay well because he was training me and you know and I don't know I just I hope that didn't happen yeah because it certainly wasn't my intention at all to cause trouble for anybody there of course yeah but um I don't know I'm sure he wouldn't have been pleased about it after all he was so excited to have a new partner yeah I mean I kind of hinted around to Barry about you know wow this is it all of this shouldn't be kept secret you know Barry never really wanted to talk about it but it seemed like he was he agreed with me you know without saying so and I really in the back of my mind I kind of hope that Barry might even follow me you know out and you know after it was all out maybe we just suddenly hear another voice from S4 but now that was all a pipe dream that must have been um pretty disheartening yeah to come out and to not have a follow-up did you expect you know I kind of did I think I just hoped so much it turned into expectation yeah but um I don't know if it was a realistic hope I just was worth a shot I think you know yeah yeah you know I'd I'd feel hopeful as well I think the same hopeful sentiment was probably shared by you know the likes of David Grush as well who you know although went through a sort of dops or approved whistle blowing um still you know gave up his pension and and put his own credibility on the line by coming out and saying hey we've recovered non-human biologics and we have craft and we're working on them I think he probably felt the same you know and after that hearing yeah I'm hats off to that guy and I I respect them for doing that for sure yeah and then crickets for him too though yeah you know nobody from the program came out do you think that's due to um people's fear or is it due to you know the the actual shutting down with people or but both I that's tough to say there's no doubt there's a fear aspect to it yeah um but other as far as shutting down people physically yeah I don't know I don't know I would certainly lean more towards fear I think they just put the fear I got and I'm and yeah that's it boom well 20 minutes in I think those are the questions I wanted answered you know they've been I mean they've been I've been I've been I've been ruminating with this you know and I was like ah you know it's it's one of those things where every time I have a guess here the um the line of questioning that I that I try to have is because of the interview we had is the second they leave well what do I what do I go I wish I would have asked them this yeah right and I really wanted to cover especially the Chuck Payne stuff which I thought was really interesting um you know maybe someone will start looking for him now I mean like they did if they put the effort they did into Dennis Mariani yeah they'll they'll find them I gotta say I looked myself I tried to research it myself uh unfortunately there is a governor I believe by the same name oh yeah yeah yeah and I think Luigi told me that or something yeah yeah somebody it did and it's not him like we've got in confirmation it's not him we showed daddy we showed you a picture as well and you're like no and uh so don't blow him up don't go blow his phone up don't you know don't go threatening him or calling him that on social media he's got his own thing going on oh like there's nothing I mean Chuck Payne was doing his job yeah that's all and he's doing it well he just said you know so you you can't you can't harbor ill will towards these guys yeah you really can I mean the guys that set up the program and whatnot it's a different different story but you know security guards are just being security guards yeah do you ever feel I mean this is something you've probably actually talked about in the past but um you know there was there was a lot of like fear stress inoculation but there was also like they gave you substances right they gave you tests or they had you drink this weird opaque yellow fluid that tastes like pine salt um did you ever feel like that might have just been part of the conditioning no no no to have you think that this was all just no no some weird hallucination or something no no we are do hallucination and that was no that I mean I think tasted more like vitamin B than anything right it was just an immune system booster because they had just done a whole yeah yeah yeah great for allergies and they said there are just materials here we have no clue as to what they are or what interactions they have with the human body so it's it was just a you know a typical booster yeah immune system booster but now there's nothing that made me yeah yeah let's think of that at all it's just yeah I mean this time is all you know we're talking about mk ultra all this type of stuff as well but it's really easy to know when something is real versus when something isn't real and when this you know people bring this up a lot and they bring up the oh they probably just master this head I'm like no they didn't as a man it was a hundred percent clear every single time I was there there was no doubt I'm and there's no doubt in my mind as well because I think you know we're all smart enough to know what's real and what isn't real yeah that being said you know that still wouldn't stop them from tampering you know somehow with your memory or you know your mind while you're there like that's something that I feel like the dark recesses of these you know government factions wouldn't stop it doing is that ever considered across your mind that they might have been still well yeah the way they screw with you by you know inserting incorrect and misleading information into what they're telling you yeah and it's specific to each person so if they start hearing that from somewhere else they know exactly who said it right yeah so passage material yeah and yeah you never know and this is why I draw such a hard line between what I work on what I saw what I touched and you know what I was told or read so you never know about any of the reading material you never know about any of the hearsay or anything you're being taught if that's it's real unless it's backed up by by hands on stuff yeah and I'm sure there's a lot of nonsense yeah no that was in there oh definitely definitely I would I would absolutely agree with that, especially if they're trying to keep a lid on things, they got to throw some, you know, a wrench in the system here. They got to throw you off the scent a little bit, some red herrings and whatnot. - Absolutely, yeah. - Absolutely. And that's something even Barry mentioned. - Yeah. - Oh really? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Really? - Yeah. - Oh, I didn't know that. - Yeah. - So Barry, 'cause he seemed like the type that was really excited about this stuff too, like when-- - Oh, wow. - Yeah. - Yeah, he really was. He was so, what, he was so excited to have somebody to work. So I must have been a while between he and a partner before that, because he was so excited to show me. It's like, you know, you got some new cool stuff on Christmas and you don't want to show your best friends something. Wait, come here, tip this out, you know? So I remember that excitement, that was really cool. - Yeah, he got to brief you too, which is how you're trying to sweet. Do you think he was at all excited, obviously, from like the physics side, but was he excited? Did you guys ever discuss, like, any of the blue documents stuff together? - No. - He was, was he briefed on that? - I don't know. - You don't know? - No. - So I'ma came up. - No. - No, we, I mean, you know, we had two things to do. And that was it. You know, it's the power on propulsion system and it's, you know, you know, directive one was be able to duplicate this with existing materials and directive two, be able to disable this system from a distance with existing materials, no budget limits, any other one, just find a way to do it. Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just clump, dewey hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Maybelline, New York. - Maybe it's Maybelline. - I think we've done either of those. Probably the second one. - I hope we did the second. I think the second one's more important. - Yeah. - Wow, it's a weird thought. Maybe my last question here. You know, out of the three briefings that you were allowed to peruse during your document ratings, you had Galileo, which was propulsion using gravity. You had Sidekick, which was the weaponization of this technology, and then you had Looking Glass, which was something to do with time dilation and peering into time somehow. Forward backwards, what have you? To me, I've spoken to some people who have assorted history in, let's say, some of these black programs. Time seems like the big one. - Yeah, but see, I thought about this. You know, which one, if you had your choice, really we evolved, but now I'd stick where I was because with gravity, you get time. - Right, but that's what I mean. I feel like gravity is used in all three of these. - Yeah, but there's the machine that makes the gravity. - I see. - So you're part of that, and then you're nowhere unless you can power it. So if you've got the gravity propulsion and the power system. - The other two. - You got the other two. Those will come in time, but you can start with those two, and you'll never get to that one. So yeah, I was where I wanted to be. - Do you think we succeeded in at least using gravity in that way and to manipulate time or to appear into time in some way? - I don't know. I mean, you don't see it anywhere. If so, they're keeping it well covered. - I've heard some people I know that have spoken to witnesses that are apparently in the program have talked about some weird interaction with the sphere that they called like looking glass, which was a sphere that they had to interact with consciously and could peer into time through consciousness-based interaction somehow. That was just wondering, for me, that you might have seen maybe the genesis of this program or at least the baby steps of it. Maybe that's where we're at now. - That would be cool, right? - Yeah, that would be cool. - I can only hope something like that's happened. - Yeah, hopefully that and not so much the directed energy stuff and all that other weird, you know, weaponizing of alien technology. - That's always gonna be nothing for you. But, you know, you gotta let that go. - Yeah, all right, well, Bob is our, thank you so much for doing this. I know you had a long day today and I really appreciate your time and I appreciate you can't answer these questions and, you know, it's not always probably the most pleasant thing to go through all this, but I do appreciate you taking the time and congratulations on, you know, getting your story out there through Project Gravator and S4, the Bob was our story and I look forward to seeing how the world changes once again after this story, Ares. - Well, thanks for letting me come back. Thanks, Bob. (upbeat music) (soft music) - Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mabelie, New York. - Maybe it's Mabelie.