Bloody Pizza Murders - Franklin, New Jersey

[music] Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wiseman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. And another absolutely wild and crazy New Jersey edition of Small Town Murder Express. New Jersey, the Florida of the North, everybody. And here it is, we have a very crazy one for you today. Before we get started, though, definitely, do me a favor. Head over to shut up and give me murder.com and get all your tickets for live shows, get all your merchandise, live shows upcoming. And next ones with tickets available is September 18th in Milwaukee at the Papst, which is a great venue, and we love to go in there. It's beautiful. It's like our third time there, I think. Minneapolis, the next night, September 19th, get your tickets right now. Minneapolis, let's do it. 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Jimmy, I'll mispronounce your name, all sorts of different ways. We'll try to get it correct. Now, that said, I think it's time, everybody. What do you say? Let's all sit back here. We got to clear the lungs here. Let's get going. Here we go, arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shout out and give me murder. Yes. Let's do this, everybody. We are going on a trip here. Let's go to New Jersey. Here's the excitement ripple through the crowd here. Franklin, New Jersey. Now, this is also called Franklin Borough, New Jersey. Where's that at? Either way, it is in Northwestern, New Jersey in Sussex County up there. It's about an hour and 15 to New York City. And most of that is traffic because the distance is not that far. About two hours and 15 minutes to Philly, if you go the other way. And then an hour and 10 minutes to Woodbridge Township, New Jersey, our last New Jersey episode, episode 659. We remember that one. Well, suitcases full of murder. That was called. Yeah. That was disturbing. Yeah. This is in Sussex County, like I said, area code 973 population 4,900 and four. Wow. So not too big here. 4,904. That's it. Pretty small. Wow. That's it. A median household income here. This is a very expensive either, which is strange because it is very commutable to New York City. Certainly commutable. Yeah. So the median household income here is 76,729, slightly above the national average, but not much. A median home cost here, $2007,500, which is hell below. How did pull that off? I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. I don't know. Commutable to New York City and $200,000 home seems a nuclear waste. Has to be. Well, it's New Jersey. It's all. I mean, it's all New Jersey. Let's be honest. New Jersey is an expensive place. There's a lot of very expensive towns in New Jersey. Nickname of this town. I could give you seven million guesses and you'd never guess it because I was like, what? The fluorescent mineral capital of the world. Okay. Is it fluorescent because there's nuclear fallout? What's going on? Probably it. Well, part of it is we're just going to do a drop of history. We have a pretty lengthy story here. All right. Basically, this town is located on a rich or body containing more than 150 minerals. Many of them fluorescent and 25 of which are found nowhere else on earth except for Northwestern New Jersey. Wow. A neon and shit like that. Wild fluorescent minerals that are only found here. No where else on the planet. Wow. You can go to Thailand and dig forever and you never find shit. That's fascinating. But you're in Florida, New Jersey. They have that and Decent Pizza. That's all they have. So reviews of this town. Here it is. It has 3.3 stars on niche. So again, you wouldn't go to a Chinese restaurant with 3.3 stars on anything. So here we go. Here is five stars. Crime is mostly low here to my knowledge. Unfortunately. That I'm aware of. That I'm aware. I mean, I don't see everything. I like what someone does that. Listen, I don't know everything. You know what I mean? I didn't see that one. It's a my knowledge. Unfortunately, a legal drug usage sale is prevalent here. Well, yeah, it's called America. You're in. You find me a town where there's not a prevalent drug use that's outside of Utah. And I will use that. You know what? It's pretty high there too. Oh, it is. I'm just saying they might hide it better. Yeah. Probably just not like the rural areas. I don't think it's more in the rural areas. In America, that's what it is. I don't know. rural Utah. I just see like Colorado City, Arizona. Yeah. Or that. It's either. Yeah. FLDS or that. But I mean, like you go to small towns in Arizona. They are methods. Oh, it's all of them. Every single one of them is a meth den. It's the only way the place goes. The police force and justice system are doing their best to remove drug-related crime. Other than that, the police are good at what they do, and there is a strong sense of safety here. Okay. Here's three stars. Franklin is a typical small town. Very quiet. It does not have many employment opportunities. You're an hour and ten minutes from one of the biggest cities in the world. Calm down. It has a couple of supermarkets and a Walmart. Okay. That's not great. The town is famous for the Franklin Mineral Museum, which is worth a visit. All those minerals. All those minerals. And finally, one star. I grew up in Franklin. It's pretty. However, it doesn't have many employment opportunities. Also, it isn't a diverse area. I personally found it difficult. I recently moved back to the area. However, there is now less for children to do than when I lived here 20 years ago. The school is mediocre. My children are bored living here. Every kid is bored living anywhere. That's your fault. You could take a kid and move them to Cinderella's castle in Disneyland in three months. They'd be like, it's barring here. They would never even anywhere you move them. They're bored. You got a Walmart. It's got a toy aisle. You can keep them occupied. There you go. Yeah. Like any other small town people go do your time spending those aisles. My ban is it. I have found it hard to find employment and a nice place to live. I've decided that it was not a place that I wanted my children to grow up. It is still not at all diverse and my children also find it difficult to fit in. I will say it is a nice place to visit but I don't recommend living here. Which for a one-star review that's pretty mild honestly. I don't know. It's a little boring. Things to do here. Here we go. The Mineral Museum. Like you said. Yeah. Got to do it. They have days at the Mineral Museum where anyone can come and dig for minerals for $75. You pay $75 and they give you a little shovel on a bag probably and you go out there and do whatever you want. Go find some. Where are you digging just a wild field? I have no idea. Wild mineral field. I have no clue. And I don't know what you're getting. Is this of any value or is it just, I don't know what you're doing. But that sounds fun. I mean, I'll dig around for some shiny rocks. That sounds fun. What the hell? It's fun for the kids, probably. There's also the Franklin Day festival. And that is they say their motto here is bringing the community together. Right. Oh, yeah. We have a couple of bands playing there. Swing Subroso is coming. Sure. Oh, yeah. Since its inception in 2000, it's generated a growing number of loyal fans throughout the Tri-State area and abroad. Is that right? They even get outside of New York, New Jersey Connecticut into the wilds of Pennsylvania. Yeah. New Hampshire, Maryland even. These four states, we may be in Philadelphia before you know it. Yeah. I like this though. Swing Subroso was formed by Ray Rodriguez, who struggled with cancer and lost his battle in April of 2000. Jesus Christ. What the fuck are we doing? You're trying to, this is supposed to be an upbeat, then the other paragraph. They're talking about how this is upbeat, like Latin swing shit. And it's fun. And like, you know, and then also our founders dead during his long battle. he turned over the back. band to Eddie Munoz, who has been with the band from the beginning and was a friend for many years. So, you know, don't be mad at Eddie. It's fine. They also say they've completed their third CD. Yeah. Oh, they got those still. Oh, boy. Yeah. And then there's full blown. Yeah. Full blown. Full blown what? I was going to say you could put a lot of things on there. That's the first one I thought of. Obviously, the founder of this diet, they're a vibrant New York based live band rooted in funk soul and urban classics. Yeah. So, they just play full blown covers, full blown covers here. Their performances often featured in venues like Cutting Room NYC, Oakley Kitchen, Kumo 27 who cares? Okay. There's also concerts at the pond. Yeah. They'll have some concerts. And you know where they are? Where's that at the pond? The pond. Yeah. The water. We got the Glenn Roberts band. Yeah. Okay. Franklin Paget that night, so that's fun. Then there's unhinged who plays classic rock, hard rock, alt rock. Then there's the Franklin band, I wonder, syncs songs about the town, and then mile 39 band will be there as well. So there's around different weeks. Very vague sounding everything. Everything very vague. There's not a lot of descriptions, just that's it here. Okay. Concerts begin at six by the way. Get your asses in there. Small chairs and shit. All right. That's sad. Let's talk about some murder. What do you say, everybody? Let's get into this because this is heavy for an express. Okay. Let's talk about a young man first. Well, not a young man anymore, but a young man in the story. Joseph, or I'm sorry, Thomas Joseph Caskovich, TJ Caskovich. TJ goes by Tommy, Tommy Kay, I'm sorry, K-O-S-K-O-V-I-C-H. Now, keep in mind that name Caskovich, because it doesn't sound very Italian, does it? No, but it does sound familiar, doesn't it? Caskovich, it sounds like they own like a, it's like a sausage company or something they make like, you know, sweet sausages in the Midwest. It sounds like a Chicago sausage outlet, you know. Now, old Tommy Kay here, born May 6, 1978, he is raised, well, we'll just let what a psychologist said later on, kind of sum up his childhood here. He was raised in a home plagued by, and I quote, infidelity, violence, substance abuse, gambling, criminal behavior, and suicide attempts. Wow. Nice, nice household he's got there. His parents are Steven, Caskovich, and Victoria Caskovich, but they won't really raise in the whole time. No, well, they're busy gambling and cheating on each other. No, no, no, that's grandma, who does that? These two are different. Steven has multiple kids, and by the way, I tell you about Steven and Victoria, by the way, we'll get to them in a second, but Steven's multiple kids and told Tommy when he was young, seven, eight years old, and he'll admit to this later, he told him, I love you the least of my three children, which is hilarious. The fact that it's fine to love everybody, let's face it, we say, I love all my kids equal bullshit. You got a pecking water, like everybody else does, we all do, and they change from time to time. Oh, yes, someone's, you're jockeying for a position over here. I would never tell them where they are in the pecking water. That's no one should. Don't tell them that. If they get arrested and I have to, and it costs me money, they know where they stay. Oh, they're in third place now. You just went from first to third, like you're in Mario Kart, and you spun out, you cost the money. You hit a banana. I'm sorry. Sorry, bro. I don't know what to tell you. You, but he told him that. I mean, to feel the need to sit a child down and make sure he knows that you love him the least. That's wild. I thought, yeah, it's one thing to know is to feel it, but to sit them down and tell them, here's wild in between, you know, episodes of number three. Wow, wow, wobsy. You're doing this. Yeah. Now his parents are learning to count today because you're number three. Yeah. One, a two, a three. Now on top of that, the Stephen's judgment is terrible anyway, the father. That's a terrible judgment, but he, that's not the original sin by any stretch of the imagination. Okay. Stephen and Victoria, Tommy's mom and dad are step siblings. So right there in the, I threw away, back away from the mic. I don't even know what to say about that. Who the fuck marries their step sister? This is a porn. What are you doing? Somebody's done it. They're not the only ones, but that's, that's obviously there's no blood relation, but no. It's just not done. You just don't worry. Your step said, like, it's just fucking weird. I mean, that's disgusting. Wow, that is the next step of porn there is actually on the home page. No, no, no, but that's the next step actually marrying one. There's no force that I married my step sister, like they don't just fucking them. They don't come in and a tux and a wedding gown and start going at it. Like, this is like, hey, mom's out for the afternoon. Yeah. It's the next taboo on the home page. It's out of next one. So, I mean, raised in the same house, I mean, it's gross. It's gross. It's just gross. Steven leaves the family when Tommy's about 10 years old. Yeah. So really, he left two families. He doubled up there. Yeah. He left a lot. Okay. Now, Victoria, a couple of years later, she just takes off to go live with a boyfriend and leaves Tommy, leaves Tommy 12, 13 years old, just with the grandma, with her grandma, with her mom, I believe. So, parents abandon him completely gone. They don't care. And, you know, probably better. If the dad tells you, I don't, I love you the least. Yeah. Probably better. He's not around. So he basically, both parents just kind of shit them off there and send them off to the grand parents. Oh, by the way, he's got some interesting issues. Number one, he feels that his toy soldiers and trees and things of that nature are sentient and can feel things like his toy soldiers. Do they talk to him? No, that's another level of whatever. He just thinks that they're that and also, he says this for years that from age six on, he heard what he called whispers, hearing voices of from a quote, evil false prophet. Yeah, it's almost like you shouldn't fuck your steps. It's weird. I mean, not that that's going to have any genetic faces on it, but no, it's going to make a weird kid. I'm sorry. A genetic society. It's going to make a fucking weird kid. It's just weird. They're going to find out how you know. You're going to know. Yeah. How'd you meet mom and dad? Well, his dad was eight. She was six. Her dad brought her over and oh boy, was I intrigued. I'll tell you what, your dad married my mom. Wait. I met her at a wedding. Our parents wedding. So they send her to live with a Bertha Lippencott, believe that is Thomas's mom, dad's mom. Bertha is an addict, according to everything here, an addict. She abuses prescription painkillers at the time, apparently according to, you know, other sort. I don't know for sure, but according to everybody's sources, she was an alcoholic and a compulsive gambler. Also here, Bertha, Bertha, an attempted suicide on multiple occasions. She's all those things were just Bertha? That's just the magrama, which to me, that's like, you know, my parents could have been a little whatever. Yeah. But the grandparents were always like the, the safety, the safe spot. Yeah. They'd send me to the grandma's house and, you know, I knew everything was fine. You know, that was so to have grandma be insane. I mean, my grandma was insane, but in a loving way, you know, she wasn't like this. She was just from Italy and this is a, this is a safe place. This is, yeah, this is a safe place and it's, it's described as a house that's filthy, chaotic and overcrowded. And when I say filthy, we'll hear from his uncle later, who says he slept in a band and built buildings in Harlem in the 80s and it was, he felt way more clean than being in this house. It was cleaner than this house. It was clean. Yeah. He said the rats, the better, everything was better. We're talking police come from time to time, not a lot of food in the house, laundry's not getting done, no supervision, kind of run wild. It's not good. Oh boy. Live like a one of the wild and wonderful lights of West Virginia. Now, at the house, he's got an uncle named Leonard Cosskovich, Uncle Lenny. Now, Uncle Lenny is basically in the couple years when he's got formidable years here for Tommy from like 13, 14, 15, these are the only years that Lenny is not in prison in his adult life. Is that right? And he's spending them being the, the male role model for this child, yeah, which is obviously not good. Lenny himself describes himself as a quote, menace to society. Nice. An addict in a career, career criminal spent his whole life in prison. He, this is uncle Lenny said that he taught Tommy how to be like him. Oh no, he gives, he gave him drugs, he gave him pills, he gave him all sorts of shit. They said that basically they said by, he was, Tommy was smoking cigarettes by age eight, which is to my grandfather told me he started smoking when he was nine. Yeah. And I was like, holy shit. But that was like in the 30s and like his father's an immigrant and they were, you know, he drop that a school at 12 to cut hair like my grandfather, like it's different time. - Yeah. - Depression was going on and shit. This is the 80s. - This is the 80s. - The cigarettes on and off from 10 till 10. 10, I was smoking, but I didn't have a habit. Eight is crazy. - That's insane to have a habit. - Eight is eight. - It's insane to not be afraid of being burned by one when you're eight, eight is a very small child. That's, you know, what is a third grade? That's, you can't smoke it. - You still have like cartoon character backpacks. You can't be having a pack of new ports in there. That's crazy. Hey, get me my cools out of there. Open up Doris Mouth and get me my cools out. Would you like that? - I had a whole last habit when I was 16, though, that I was supporting on my own 'cause I had a job and-- - Well, yeah, 16 is different. A lot of kids smoke at 16 and eight is a whole different deal. - That's crazy. - I was drinking beer by 12 or 13, which I've heard worse in Wisconsin. That's considered a late bloomer. - That, yeah, that is late bloomer. Then-- - That's waiting to retire. - Yeah, weed, hard liquor, pills, LSD, everything. He's into prescriptions a lot, opioids and barbiturates. He likes a drug called Fiora-set, F-I-O-R-I-C-E-T, which is acetaminophen, caffeine, barbitruid, also all mixed in, it's for migraines apparently. - Sounds like fucking syrup, you know what I mean? - No, they're pills. They're pills that you'd take from migraines, so he would also steal berthas pills out of a purse, and him and his uncle would get high. They said basically, later on, psychologists will say that Tommy pretty much is emotionally arrested at about 11 years old. It's about where he-- - That's not good. - Where he goes. He wants life in the fast lane, little Tommy. This is the thing. This is what little Tommy wants. At some point, in the midst of this childhood, he starts telling people that he can't wait to grow up and kill people, because he wants to join the Mafia. It's not the army, first of all. You're only joined, and he wants to be a Mafia hitman. But you don't have one very specific qualification for being in the Mafia number one. - That's one, they're not going to trust you. - They're just going to hold you back, that's number one. - You're already in the hole. - Yeah, you can't just show up and be like, who do I got a kill to be in the club, guys? That doesn't work. He thinks that killing someone, if he kills someone, then he can go to the Mafia and be like, look, I killed this guy, and they'll be like, oh, well, yeah, you're a private now and they give him a little uniform, a little suit with no stripes on it. - Right, I got to go to the Yellows Adam to do push-ups. - Yeah, well, you know, no, it's, eat that pasta, and you got to keep eating it. So there's like, there's different things. Yeah, stuff that can only-- - More meatballs. - Yeah, more meatballs, get that meatball. Let's go, come on. Make it in a ball. - Got the ghoul. - Got the ghoul, ah, come on. Drop the yaw off the prosciutto. Let's go. He also would like to be a navy seal. So he's got very high aspirations. He wants to be a Mafia hitman navy seal. - Yeah. - Which sounds like what a 13-year-old would say. - That's what it, yeah. - That's what it's getting seventh grade. So I'm gonna be a Mafia hitman in a navy seal. Oh, okay, great. And then an astronaut and a movie star. And, you know, so he's got a buddy who's not quite as fucked up, but, you know, he's pushing it. Jason Arthur Vreland, V-R-E-E land, okay? Born September 5th, 1979, his parents are, he's got a dad name. Arthur, we'll talk about here. His dad is described as violent and abusive. - So clearly we bond over that. That's gonna be our-- - That's a good one. - Well, we're talking points. - We're not sure if he knows his ranking among the children though. That's one thing. You know, if he knows that. And they moved constantly. They have to move all the time, different towns, and basically every time Jason get in a new school, he get picked on because that's New Jersey. And I did the same. When I moved a lot, when I was a kid, went to a shit load of different schools in New York. And people-- - What's your sis? - Try to fuck with you. This is, he was born in '79. - Yeah, yeah. - So 80s are age basically these guys. So, that's what you got. You got picked on and you better be, you know, funny or quick to punch or something. - Or just take it and fucking move along. That's what you're gonna be. - Yeah. So, now, Jason's got an incident that happened that he describes as the bus incident. He said, quote, I got pulled off a school bus by a bully. The bus driver didn't care. The bully opened the door, pulled me out and started to beat the living hell out of me. - Yeah. - So the driver didn't care. And so he didn't trust adults after that. He gets a broken arm. And he said the driver'd watch the whole thing happen. - Broke bones. - Jesus. - Hey, you know what, it's not on my business. You're in, it's Jersey's a very none of my business state. You know, hey, I don't know what the hell's going on. Between the two of you's, I don't know. - I don't know if I'm good with what? I don't wanna get on the wrong side of it. - It's my problem over here right now. Age 14, he's using drugs. He said, quote, I really acted out in school so I would fit in. The other kid saw me as the kid who would do crazy things and take a ton of drugs, which is another way to not get picked on. If you're the crazy guy. And it seemed every time I moved and went to another school and being the new kid I was picked on, the only kids who didn't seem to pick on me were the drugies. Now, drugies are very accepting. - They're very passive folks. - That crowd is very accepting in high school. They really are, 'cause they're the outcasts. That's why they're doing drugs when they're 16, so. - Also, 'cause what we're doing is illegal. - So, yeah, if you're doing it too, we're both criminals. - You've got a similar background. You know, a lot of the jocks might come from a different background and they'd see that you're different and they pick on you. So, he went to a technical school on and off, got bad grades, got fights all the time. Just looking for friends and looking for a place to fit in and looking to knock a pick on. And then he meets Tommy, who's kind of a crazy guy and he's a year older than him. And kind of sees him as kind of, not a protector, but almost kind of a guy. He can have a, you know, some sort of a kitchen. - A little worse for the wear, so he's a little tougher. He can handle that. - Maybe, yeah. - Exactly, like you go to his grandma's house and she's like, whoa, this place is fucked up. Makes my house look like little house on the prairie here. - They say you're number three, is that right? - Number three, hey. So, Jason really latches on to Tommy. And, you know, and Tommy's, he's full of shit and he's charismatic and a lot of times, kids who are looking for something will gravitate toward kids like that. He's talking about guns all the time. Tommy talking about killing. He talks about the mafia. He's got a car, a really shitty beat to crap Chevy Cavalier with a fucked up muffler that's insanely loud that you can hear from a half mile away and a broken headlight. So, he's got a fucked up loud pediddle Cavalier. Not good. - Yeah. - Not good. There's also a guy named Michael Conklin, a C-O-N-K-L-I-N, who's 19 years old. He's another one of Tommy's friends, but he hasn't figured too much into this story, but we'll talk about him. April 8th, 1997. Tommy proposes to Michael Conklin. Let's break into adventure sports, which is a hunting and fishing store, like a Cabello's or something, you know? But, small, you know, just one off thing. - Small Bass Pro, yeah. - It's on Route 23 in Franklin, Barrow, sells camping gear, fishing rods, guns, things of that nature, you know, outdoorsy shit. Now Tommy had been in the store and scouted it out, even picked out which guns he wants in there. - Really? - So Conklin agrees to help. They get into Tommy's Blue Chevy Cavalier. They drive past the Franklin Borough police station to see if any cops are milling about. And they don't seem to be-- - And if they are, they're gonna hear us, 'cause my mufflers fucked up. - Yeah, they're probably gonna pull me over. No cops around. So Conklin drops Coscovitch off at the store. Well, Tommy gets dropped off at the store. Coscovitch, or I'm sorry, Conklin parks the card and nearby apartment complex and waits. Apparently Tommy takes a baseball bat and smashes the front window of the store in. - So much for subtlety. - No alarm. - Oh, yeah, that's the one way to know. - If you hear the glass, then it's one thing. If not, it's fine. And there's no subtlety here whatsoever. They're not picking locks or anything. - You tell me a place that sells guns has a window that you can bash through. - And no one goes off? - No, that'll come up later, don't worry. - Well done, guys. He takes three handguns, a 40 caliber, a 22 caliber revolver and a 45 also. - Big ones. - Big ones, yeah, I'll accept the 22, but whatever. - Two big ones though. - Two big ones. After about 20 minutes, he's back at the car and they're driving away. They drive to a laundromat where Tommy stashes the three guns under the hood of his car, changes his pants and then they go back to Conklin's house and Tommy crashes out there the next night. The next morning, Tommy's showing the guns off. He gives Conklin the 40 cowl and he keeps the 22 and 45 for himself, puts him in a duffle bag and leaves. Now the original plan was to sell the guns, or at least some of them, to be able to buy cocaine, to be able to flip the cocaine for profit. So they want to start a coke business with these guns, okay? - Yeah, you gotta get that seed money, James. - And at the same time, this is an odd thing. We've seen, you know, any kind of, I've seen it in real life, too, but I mean, you can watch any movie you want or TV show and someone's starting drug dealing and stuff. It's a pretty, you know, it's an involved endeavor. You gotta get into it all. I know they also have a side thing they want to do since they have a gunner to now They want it also. This is Tommy's idea. They want to rob pizza delivery drivers Which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard because I delivered plenty of pizza every time you go back into the store You drop your fucking money off for the last part or you might keep but we got $80 on either You got you know thousands of dollars you can't run around with a hundred pizzas in your car By the time you get to the last one. We like I'm not eating that. No exactly one place I they I keep the money at the end of the night you cash out like a waiter basically But it still was like would I have a hundred twenty dollars on me like it wasn't like worth killing a person over It's silly so Conklin asks him the question. He says why? Why you want to sell cocaine? That's one thing and he makes a money or whatever Why do you want to rob pizza delivery people? That sounds stupid great Better people to rob than that. Yeah, yeah, out of all these kids. He's the only one that went Why why? Everyone huh I don't know like that old mr. Scott a point or the old mr. Show sketcher. They're gonna blow up the moon Yeah, they're gonna blow up the moon and they had a monkey who was gonna press the detonation button in the monkey's did sign language The monkey asked why and they all went And then they went got a new they went and got a new monkey that didn't have no sign language That's what they did. That was the solution sucks So Tommy said quote, they're easy targets. I just want to kill someone for the thrill of it Okay, so now you're not robbing people. Well, you rob them too. Yeah, but that's a point of it That's not the point and the mafia really want you to rob pizza delivery man. I take it into the mafia That's like that's double a triple a it's a matter when you bring your resume if there's a zero next to pizza delivery man killed You're not getting high. You're not getting how many how many pizza guys you off? I'm not seeing any on here. I don't know what the you know go back and you know kind of work that resume a little more You know little more men come back in a couple of years So for the next week and a half they put a murder plan together of their gonna try to basically just let's rob a pizza guy and kill him Just for the guy okay, so April 18th 1997 Tommy tells his friend Christine Slater a young lady here a teenage girl in the friend group He's hanging out with Christine and he tells her Basically everything he says I'm going to order a pizza. I'm going to have it delivered to a remote address And I'm going to kill this delivery person and she said Why? Yeah Yep, that's exactly what she said Why? Yeah, pray tell and he said well because I want to join the mafia Duh and you join by killing someone which is again not they're gonna you're about they're gonna I'm not gonna have to go find them it'll get through the grapevine a guy to suit. I'm not gonna buy door guy Just a guy to track suit will come and hey come here's the sandwich. You know the guy She doesn't call the cops or anything like that because she thinks He it's time he run in his mouth. He thinks he's gonna get in the mafia for killing a pizza guy He's just an idiot who cares because this is a dumb thing to think yeah And I've heard people say duck kids when I was a teenager say dumb or shit than that And you just ignore them and nothing ever happens. That's the way it works Now he tells Michael Conklin as well Conklin said I don't know any part of that. Oh, he's the wide guy He was like, I don't see a point to this. I'm not getting involved in this He also tells a kid named Jason Kelly It's a long story, but Jason Kelly the Kelly family Robert and April are his parents Tommy helped them out while a member of the family had cancer and Tommy like did things for the family And fucking mode the lawn and like was a real big help to these people While there's somebody in their family. I'd cancer so he tells a Spanish music band I that I'm not sure So he tells I did in 2016 he last until So he tells Jason about this too and he asks Jason can you get me some 45 caliber bullets He Yeah, you were just in the shop didn't get those he got the guns but forgot to get any bullets for them What the fuck? So Jason Kelly not Jason real and Jason Kelly gives him the bullets He's got him on hand. He asked him for him So then the next day Saturday, April 19th, 1997 They're at Tommy's house Tommy's grandma's house. He spends part of the day with his girlfriend Kimberly Prestige At 8 p.m Tommy is over at Conklin's house now my Conklin's house the wide guy Conklin's mother Florence sees Tommy said that he seemed anxious at that point About 930 Jason Vreland and Tommy They're at Tommy's house and the two of them to get get all dressed up to leave the house Tommy straps on the 45 caliber auto semi auto across his chest underneath his shirt Vreland puts the 22 caliber revolver and his chest under his shirt. So they take a phone book Because at the time he needed a phone book and then they go to Duncan donuts with a phone book Okay, which all the teenage kids do you grab a phone book you go to Duncan donuts. It's a party member He doesn't know the phone number to the pizza joints. Well, there's a there's a thing here Yeah, they copy down a list of phone numbers of local pizza places on a piece of paper Okay, so they'll go through the list. Yeah, they'll see where they are They get changed. They even bum some change off Kimberly Tommy's girlfriend gives them she gives them some change They can make calls 1130 pm now. Let's fast forward two hours. That was 930 at 1130 they end up back With Kimberly She tells the she says later on that Tommy and Jason came back around 1130 and they were wrecked and falling all over the place quote unquote She said that earlier in the day Jason Had Vreland had nothing in his wallet now. We had a $5 bill and the next day He's got about a hundred and seventy dollars and she doesn't know where it came from So let's find out where it came from At 930 they're at Duncan donuts about 950 or they were heading to Duncan donuts about 950. They're driving in the cavalier They have they have their their pizza place numbers They drive the blue cavalier out to Scott road in Franklin borough. It's a middle of nowhere country road basically They pick an address They're looking for addresses on the street. Right. They pick 196 Scott road, which is an abandoned house Empty and the nobody lives there and the house has got some distance between them There are houses there on the street, but they're not you know right on top of each other But this house is empty and dark so they drove past it got the address of it and then went to Duncan donuts From 10 pm to 10.06. They're on the Duncan donuts pay phone making phone calls Yeah, here we find out at 10 o'clock. They called one pizzeria. So they call pizzeria number one Yes, they refuse to go to Scott road. It's too far out there and they don't know where it is So they're like we're not fucking going where we don't we're not sending a guy to be vulnerable out in the middle of nowhere No, no, it's too far. That's it Pizzer they call 1001 pizzeria number two they're not delivered. They don't deliver to that area 1002 pizzeria number three. They don't deliver to Scott road out there too far Because everybody every pizza place has a radius of where they got a window. Yeah Now I worked for small you know family-owned pizza places It's not like Domino's where it's a hard window or something like that and a small town place they're like It's all right fine. Yeah, take that one. I remember asking the owner We will we deliver here and he goes and see how busy they are and they're like yeah, I guess so Yeah, what the hell like I've done that before 1003 they call Tony's pizza and pasta in heartyston, New Jersey How many Tony's pizza and pasta are there there's what there's three three miles of my house three Tony's So they pick up the phone and they ask is Jeremy Giordano working tonight And the guy on the phone says yeah, Jeremy's here and then they hang up the phone Okay, because they have a they know a guy who works at one of these pizza places who does deliveries Okay, they call pizzeria number four. They say it's too far out not doing it They call pizzeria number five the kid answer in the phone says he'll do the order But then the owner the boss says no scot roads too far so they cancel the order midway Then they call back to Tony's pizza and pasta Yeah, and they said will you deliver out there and they said yes and so they place an order for two large cheese pies, okay Okay, two large cheese pizzas. It's $16.50 which I love 90s northeast pizza prices. That's like exactly 25 is like exactly what they were at the place I worked at the time. So that's pretty funny Going to 196 scot road at 10 30 pm The kids are back at scot road Tommy and Jason. They parked the Cavalier in like in a way that they can basically they backed into the driveway of this house. They load the guns 22 caliber for Freeland 45 for Tommy and they stand out on the curb of the house in jackets Waiting for the pizza 1035 pm here Jeremy Jeradano by the way who's 22 years old. Oh, they know the guy they know the guy he gets the order He's been delivering pies for a while at Tony's from all I can understand He sounds like a real nice kid this Jeremy there. He says a sweet kid He's been a delivery driver so he knows all these roads believe me I delivered pizzas when I was a teenager I knew every fucking road Yeah, so he delivered area every little tiny road which is great because there's a lot of little places to go He places like that's good to know side pockets, you know how it is. Um, so he knew every short he knew everything. Now, the owner of the pizza place is George Eogallara, G-A-L-L-L-A-R-A. Goes by George because, you know, it's easier. He's 25 and he owns the pizza place at 25. Wow. He bought the pizza place when he was 21. He'd been working there since he was 13. Yeah. Parking cars. Parking cars out front. So yeah, he, I guess, when the owners wanted to retire, he said, "I'll take over." So he did. Well, George, he got it. That's a little George Eogallara. Well, George Eogallara. So George has a girlfriend named Lara who's waiting in the parking lot for him. They have a four-year-old daughter as well who's also in the parking lot out there waiting for George Eogallara to get off work. George Eogallara to get off work. They have a camping trip plan for the morning. They already have the car loaded. They're already here. Now, George, though, being a decent guy and a guy who owns a pizza place and gives a shit about his employees, actually, um, says, uh, some doesn't feel right about this. I don't like it. It's out in the middle of nowhere. It's late. It's just a weird call. Look, look, the hang up, they call to back two minutes later. Very East Coast and Italian to have some. I don't like this. And he says, he doesn't say, don't go. He goes, I'm coming with you. How's that? Oh, how about that? Me and you together. Okay. So they hop in Jeremy's 95 Pontiac Grand Am, which is a great car for back then. A grand. If I was in 1997 in 1997, if I had a 95 grand, never mind what it is. It's two years old. Every car I had at that point was 15, 10 years old. It was a piece of shit. Yeah. The seats in these were so comfortable. They were that like plush. Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Like plush of the lower such. Yeah. Well, great fucking seat. Yeah. Puffy. It's a shit. They're nice. So they drive out 1045 to Scott road. And basically they get up to the house. Yeah. Jeremy's driving. George is in the passenger seat. Car pulls up to the curb with the passenger side facing the boys on the curb there. So it's on their right on the cars right now. They asked they say 1650. George is the guy in the passenger seat. He says 1650. So Tommy looks at Jason and says, you got money. And Jason says, yeah. And then Tommy goes, Oh, no, never mind. I got the money. And reaches and it was jacket pocket pulls out the 45 and empties the clip into the car. Oh my God. empties the clip. Seven shots. I'm a bank because he could. Jason then fires the 22 in the car as well. They're just opening fire on this car. Like they're sunny, corley owned in the fucking car at the toll booth. So two of the bullets from the 45 enter the right side of Jeremy, Gerrano's neck and exit out the left side. Oh, the medical examiner later will say those bullets kill Jeremy pretty much instantly. It's over. Yeah. Two more 45 caliber rounds hit Jeremy in the left knee. Both bullets will be recovered later. Now Georgia, Galara in the passenger seat, five bullets on him five wounds, a graze across the bridge of his nose, two wounds to his right elbow, one large caliber wound to the right side of the face. That's the fucking 45. And then the fatal shot though is a 22 caliber bullet that enters the back of his head. Really? Yes. So one came from the 22, one deadly bullet came from the 45. Then Jeremy's foot comes off the break because they were still in drive and the grand dam starts rolling. Right. And gets kind of stuck in a muddy, brushy area there. Engine's still running. We don't know. So Tommy and Jason run to the car, open the passenger door. They grab Georgia, Galara by the jacket and pull them face down onto the ground. Right. Because they got nothing out of this so far. So far it's just they got a ridiculous murder. The pizzas are on the ground, by the way, as they handed the pizzas out to him. So then goes over the driver side does the same to Jeremy. And then they didn't know it was Jeremy till now. Yeah. Jason, when he pulls them out, he yells, that's Jeremy. That's Jeremy. We shot fucking Jeremy. Didn't want to shoot Jeremy. That's why they were not fucking didn't want to do that to begin with. Now Tommy doesn't know either person doesn't give a shit. So that's how we know that Jason was making the calls because he knew about Jeremy and Tommy doesn't know Jeremy. So Tommy starts rifling their pockets basically for cash, just crazy. They climb into the grand dam, search the interior, the glove box, get a few more bucks, they get a wallet off of a small amount of cash in the wallet and then Georgia, Galara, two pizzas on the ground next to the bodies. They don't even take the pizzas. How about this respect? A waste. It's too good decent. That's good pizza. North New Jersey pizzas on the ground. I find that offensive. It's like obviously the murder's offensive and it's horrible. And it's obviously the overriding, main, horrible thing. But on the side, note, this hurts me. This hurts my heart. I don't like seeing pizza waste. But the war on pizza in this country is driving well. And this is just a brutal waste of two pizzas that were very edible. I'm sure of it. Absolutely. Fucking delicious, I bet. So Jason tries to back the grand dam out of the mud, but it's stuck in the mud. So Tommy says, forget the car. They're going to steal the car too. They said, forget the car. They run back to the Cavalier as they're running. Tommy says, I can't believe we did this. I can't believe we did this. And then Jason says, I love you, man. And then they hug in the middle of the street. Quick, quick bro hug before we hop in for our murder. Just a quick one. Yeah. I love you, man. So that's what they do. Then they get in the Cavalier drive away by 11 p.m. They stopped at the Presbyterian church where they got out, walked to the front door and made the sign of the cross and left. Okay. Now they have a fucking boondock saying. That's what I mean. This is ridiculous. He doesn't know. Yeah. That's what a, that's what a mob hitman would do, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. As long as you have forgiveness. What do you think they did next, Jimmy? They go burn a saint, James. Did they have their own ceremony? Did they take that phone book and look up the mob? They went bowling. As you do, right? I mean, I love bowling, but so on the way home, they, yeah, they ditched evidence to Jason, been wearing black gloves and had a blood stain shirt. He threw the shirt and was stream as they drive past, which will later be recovered by the way, along with receipts from Tony's pizza, the, you know, the bill for it, the guest check thing, and also Galera's identification card and driver's license and all that kind of shit. Now Tommy takes off his khakis with blood all over them while he's driving and puts on a clean pair of white jeans. Who the fuck were white jeans in 1997? What a door. So wild. I'm gonna tell you, no teenagers wore white jeans in 1997. No nails. You get a pick. Oh, yeah, women wear whatever they want. As long as their ass looks great, we would have got picked on unmercifully for that in the Northeast. White jeans. Your friends would run by you and drag their shoe on your fucking thigh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Kids would kick you right in the ass. I know my shoes on your ass all day. You can't have that. So they put the stuff that khakis in the wood gym bag. They get back to Tommy's house. They stuff both guns and the bloody khakis in the wood gym bag and hide the gym bag under a pain of glass outside the house. Just leave it there. Okay, then they go bowling. I don't know if this is enough. We don't know if it's like an alibi. We don't know what they do. I think Tommy not bad about a 175. He's pretty good. I'll tell you what. So then they go home and they fall asleep on Tommy's couch. Now, Kimberly was in there at some point and said they were wrecked and all over the place at 1130. Okay. So are they drinking? What were they doing? That's what we're trying to figure out what happened after that. I don't know if they were just pretending like, hey, we went out and got wrecked and that was our thing, not murdered people. Sunday, April 20th, 1997 comes along the next day. Yeah. And the Pontiac Grand Am is still stuck in the mud. Yeah. Still sitting there. There's a 911 call pretty early. And a patrolman, an officer pulls up, finds the grand dam, the mud each, you know, in a muddy patch, both doors a jar, two adult males face down in the grass, large amount of blood, both inside and outside the car and two pizzas sitting there. Now, after reading, after reading a couple of slices, of course, yeah, get a process to see and see how it's that's part of the report. It was that it's any good, you know, people don't know. The report had a lot of grease on it. It's a thing. I look greasy, saw stains. So they find six spent 45 caliber shells recovered on the road in front of the abandoned house. Two more spent 45 casings recovered from the front passenger seat of the grand dam, two large caliber bullets in the left knee, a 22 caliber bullet in the back of the head. Yeah. So this is crazy. Now, the investigation, Tony's pizza and pasta gets a phone call from the police the next morning. They said, yes, the two pizzas went out around 10, 30 the night before to 196 Scott road because the owner was going to be away that weekend. So he's got a manager opening up, you know what I mean? They said, yes, Jeremy Giardano was doing driving. Yes, Georgiogalara, the owner went with him. They never came back. We didn't know what happened. Then they talked to the girlfriend, Georgiogal friend who waited in the parking lot. She waited for a long, long, fucking time. She tells them a about that at the same time. This is becoming news around town and Christine Slater hears about it. The friend that they told about it who blew it off. So she calls the goddamn cops right away. (laughing) She says she called the cop. She's like, "I know who did it." She said, "My friend Tommy told me two days ago he was gonna do this 'cause he wanted to join the mafia and he wanted to kill a pizza delivery person, steal the car." And then what you do is you give the car as a tribute to the mob boss and then he let you in. Here's a 95 grand damn and he goes, "You're my son now." And then you burn a saint. - In five years when it's out of warranty, you will call it a 95 goddamn. (laughing) 'Cause every two weeks this thing's gonna give you problems. - It's gonna be a fucking problem. So he said he wants to do that. He said he told me how he was gonna do it and this is exactly what I heard happened. - Wow. - So this is not good. Now number one, she heard about it ahead of time and didn't say anything. So this could be a crime in her for her. - Uh-huh. - But it's, they don't really care 'cause she's a teenager and she said, "I don't think he was gonna fuck it." - I'm actually doing it seriously. - He talks all the time. He's been saying this for years. Then they get a second tip though. Steven Madden's a guy who lives on Scott Road and Saturday evening before 10 p.m., he sees a blue Chevy Cavalier with a loud muffler drive past his house. A very distinct car. Maybe 15, 20 minutes later, he sees the same car drive past again, loud muffler. Two other Scott Road residents saw and heard the same car. One headlight out loud muffler. So yeah, so they talk about it, he calls the police so now they have the guys putting them at the scene, they have the friends saying that she told them to. - They said they were gonna do it and we've got two people that saw his dumb fucking car. - Stupid car. - Idiot. - So April 21st, 1997, the next morning, we're talking middle of the night, not even morning, 2.30 and 5.30 in the morning, they arrest both of these idiots. - At their homes asleep. - Yeah, they pull Tommy out of his bed at his grandma's house. At time, they read him his rights like seven times, by the way, at the scene in the car, at the station, before they interrogate him. I mean, he gets his rights right a lot, by the way. When they search him, they find just his person, a pouch containing 26 pills later identified his fiora set, 12 marijuana seeds just loose in his pocket. Who the hell keeps seeds in their pocket? - Who kept this? Like he's gonna grow. - This is Lucy Goosey in your pocket. - I'm gonna grow that. - Throw him away. - And $5, $10 bills. Big haul from this robbery here. They take him to the police guard. He signs the Miranda sheet. They do an inventory search. They do all that. He signs a waiver twice, by the way, Miranda waiver. Then he sits down and for 46 minutes tells the cops every goddamn thing in the world. Tommy does. Just tells them everything confesses to the murder. Not a good mafia audition here, guy. - He thinks when he gets out, he's gonna, he's got a career now. - He walks them through the planning. Then he tells them, well, I burglarized adventure sports 11 days ago. That's how I got the gun. So then they close that case. They know what happened to that. He says we went to the pay phone. Goes through the entire thing, basically. Word by word, step by step. Everything how we told, everything I told you before came from his and Jason's own mouths. They said how we premeditated a cold-blooded murder that turned out to be too fortuitously. - Yep, and a robbery. And he even told about how they hugged in the street. It's not good. - He even admitted, I love you, man. - And then he said, yeah, he took some drugs yesterday, but he's of clear enough mind to figure it out today to talk to them. He's fine. And he said the police weren't coercing him or putting any pressure on him. He said he was treated fine with no problems. Here's a couple quotes from him. Quote, the guy was screaming all the way to the bushes. It rang right through my head. I don't know why I was scared. Then another quote, it makes it so you can't do anything. So you can do anything. It's not so much you don't know what you're doing. You're fearless or heartless. I have no remorse because I didn't know the people. Jay felt bad for Jeremy. Wow. Okay. Interesting. Now Jeremy sits down or Jason, I mean, sits down and he gives a partial statement too. He claims though that he only shot at the dashboard with his gun. So that's it. So I pretended to be doing it. Meanwhile, you missed and he hit a guy in the fucking head. Yeah, his confession here, this is the funniest thing. They're talking about murder. Yes, we did it. Yes, we did all this. But when asked how he got home the next day, he told police that this is Tommy. He told police that he didn't drive Reeland home and they said, why? Why did you refuse to drive him home? He said, I didn't have valid insurance. I didn't want to break though. Well, you know, I don't want to do it. Jesus Christ. I mean, come on here. Traffic cars are very important to me. Yeah, I'm sorry, but I don't want tickets. My insurance is going to go through the roof over here. I don't have any, but it'll go through the roof when I get it. When I get it, the rates are going to be ridiculous. So in the search of Tommy's room while they're doing this, they find a lot, a lot of a lot of evidence. They find the 45 caliber pistol to 22, the 22 caliber revolver, blood stain khakis with the victims blood all over them, two empty 22 caliber cartridge boxes. Georgiogalera's Jim photo identification card, we stop looking now. And 14 gun, 14 gun magazines, like combat handguns, handgunning, that's, that sounds like a magazine. Handgunning and guns and weapons, okay, that's like just finger gun guy. Yeah. Hey, boom, boom, then a price list for crime related activities. Like his price list that he's going to put out, I'll do crimes for you for his menu if you will. Yeah. His menu. This included fake IDs, credit card frauds and things like that. So this is like a thing. They also found a pair of black gloves. This is a realon's gloves, an empty wallet, which is Galera's bags of clothes and paperwork. And also handwritten song lyrics about killing people, Tommy had, he writes, he writes songs too. And five strips of paper taped above a coat hook. God damn it. We're running out of time. This is so much more to this. I don't know what to do here. We're, this is crazy. There's so much more. Five strips of paper. Five strips of paper taped above a coat hook, handwritten and marker in Tommy's handwriting. They read a weapons spot one, anyone else, we all kill you. Then one said Joe spot, anyone, anybody else, he kill you to Tom spot, anybody else, he kill you to Jason spot, anybody else, I'll, I kill you. Then Coco puffs spot. By the way, we don't have no idea how Coco puff is and we'll never find out. It says Coco puffs spot. I'll kill you. All right. Okay. He has both the confessions lineup perfectly with forensics and physical evidence. It's crazy. Then they find out also the, they charge him with the adventure zone robbery there. Then they talked to Mike Conklin who participated in the robbery and Mike said, after the murder, he talked to Tommy. Tommy came out, stuck his hand out and said, how does it feel to shake the hand of a killer? Oh, Jesus. He's such an idiot, man. He's such a fucking idiot. By the way, Jeremy, Jeremy Giordano's cousin Nicholas said, there are some people who are my family who've never come to terms with Jeremy's death. Some people consider him St. Jeremy. I live with this every day, every day I think about it. It's fucked up. They charge Tommy with 16 counts of shit. Oh, everything you can imagine, murder and robberies and this one, doing this felony murder. I don't think I'm in charge of them with that. Then again, what's the eventual marijuana position of some day? The state will seek the death penalty on Tommy because he's over 18. Jeremy's only 17 and they can't seek the, our Jason's only 17. They can't seek the death penalty against him. Yeah. He's a minor. Anyway, Tommy while awaiting trial is charged with heroin possession in prison or in jail after him and other inmates received smuggled heroin. Then July, they're talking about him pleading guilty, and he's saying he's going to plead guilty. But then he tries to kill himself with an overdose of prescription bills and changes his mind. Has it dawned on him? How fucked he is? Is that what happened? I guess so. He's got a plead guilty and sit there forever. So during the trial, death penalty on the table, they're going to allow the strips with the names on it, the cocoa puff thing. Now they insist it's a, it's a stripes reference. The movie Stripes with Bill Murray. On Candy. On Candy, Harold Ramis and Judge Ryan Hall knows guys. They insist it's a stripes reference. Even Jason Kelly, the guy who gave him the bullets testified that it is a stripes reference and there was a joke among their friends, don't know. The trial court said, no, no, they're all coming in. The price list is allowed in the gun magazines. That's to say he was experienced with guns and who he was doing and his confession, everything's allowed in. All right. So the detective reads the murder that his song lyrics about killing people in a dead pan voice to the jury, which is a fan, right? If a detective reads anybody's lyrics. I mean, you could take the greatest lyrics in the world, you could sit in there with just a fucking list of nozzlerics just, it would sound horrible coming from a deadpan detective. Mom's spaghetti. Yes, over and over. And he says, quote, about killing people, you can kill by, and then it's illegible. Or on by guns, one night you break in somebody home and you take their money and kill by drive something illegible down the road and shout and shouting by the big heads the best. Those are lyrics. They don't write. So they bring everybody in, the friend who, you know, a Dunkin Donuts employee who saw them on the pay phone, you name it, everybody, the people who, you know, the girl who heard him talk, the Jason Kelly guy, everything. The defense case is, you know, you didn't really do this, you know, we're talking about. That's basically their case. Their case says, but he's a fucked up kid, he's got mental illness. Yeah. So they bring shrinks in to say he's got mental, it's all fucked up. Yeah. So verdict comes in unsurprisingly. He's guilty. Yeah. Yes. Now, they are after he's guilty to that on the same verdict sheet. They say, did Tommy by his own conduct fire the bullet or bullets that killed Jeremy, yes or no, unanimously, they vote, yes, now that makes it go to the penalty phase. And now the death penalty can be used. Any of them said, no, they can't have the death penalty. There's like a double, you know, safety mechanism there. So they're not just random death penalty is given out. So they sentence him during sentencing, they bring up a lot of mitigating witnesses talking about how horrible his childhood was, his grandmother fed him pills, his uncle fucking fed him drugs, all this shit, parents grew up together. Yeah. The Kelly family said that Tommy helped them out when that's Jason Kelly's father, when Robert had cancer. He ran errands. He's kind. His uncle Lenny takes the stand and says, quote, let me tell you something and I'll tell everyone in this courtroom. I'll tell anybody in the whole world and I mean it. This comes from the heart. I would switch places with that boy right now today in a heartbeat. Give me his sentence, let him go home. That's what he says. That's not how it works. I said, I did this. This is my fault. Oh, he said, I, this is my fault. I put him on this road. I fucked him all up. And he said that it's something to do with basically a psychological breaking point. And he said, everybody has a point, he said, I had that point too. But mine, mine happened when I was in jail. He just happened to be out on the street so he could do more about it. He said, you want to let him back out to do it again? He said, everybody in my family is dysfunctional. Tommy released his anger at the age of 18. I let it out in the Sussex County jail. I let it out in reform schools. They talk about that. He said, the very people in this institution right here named me a menace to society, a poor risk to the community. And I've been proven that time after time. Send me to give me the lethal injection. Give me his sentence right now. Let me switch seats with that boy and give him psychologists. Send out what made him do it so you can teach the other kids not to Wow. He says that yeah, he says that my life got all fucked up. They said, what happened in your life to turn it on? He said, my mother's former lesbian lover, who was a bossy, mean drunk, hauntied me for three days when I was little and beat me up because I tried to set fire to her bedroom. He said, I wanted them dead. It's a fascinating day. Then about the house he grew up in, he said, I found cleaner living conditions in abandoned buildings in Harlem rats and dirty syringes were next to me and I was much happier. They bring in the dad to say, I told him I loved him the least of all my children. He says he did that. I got a whole to fuck my sister, you got to go fuck my sister now, bye. Then they bring in a psychiatrist that says that he's been receiving whispers from an evil false prophet. He believes he can predict the future and that on this year in 1998, the Chinese were planning to invade America on July 1st, that's a prediction he wants everyone to know about. He said, quote, he's a very disturbed young man. He's mentally ill. Okay, the prosecution rebuttal was who fucking cares. This was premeditated as shit. Then they bring out Loretta Giordano, Jeremy's mom. Oh, no. I love this lady. She's a wonderful woman. She reads a 15 page victim impact statement on how much her great her son was and also that her son was super into Jesus and religion and all that kind of shit. Okay. Then on cross examination from the defense council, they ask her a question and this is could go either way. They hear she's real religious and they say, what's your family's views on the death penalty? She says this is a great, very, very. This is what, like I think if you're going to be Jesus, see this is how you should be. This is Jesus. He's stuff here. Quote, my whole family would like to see Thomas Coscovitch take the evil that he's done and turn his life over to Christ or not in favor of the death penalty. I would like the jury to evaluate everything according to what they feel their job is to do and according to the laws, according to how they feel they have to answer to their God. Oh, we're not into it. So the jury, on the other hand, says you, sir, may fuck off death penalty. They are into it. We'll answer later. But if it's okay, the whole point is if it's for the victim's family and they don't want it, then what the fuck are we doing? This is it's silly. Anyway, it's very funny that they were like, we'll take you words, lady, we'll answer it another day. Yeah. Well, it's fine. Javelin also has a trial. He's tried as an adult, but no death penalty. He has also found guilty as well, obviously, it's the same evidence for him, though, you sir may fuck off life plus 35 years, okay, eligible for parole in 2044 when he's 65. Geez. That says, wow, he's still not, he's right in the middle of it now. Yep. Tommy appeals and gets the death penalty taken away. Uh-huh. The, by the way, the state appealed also saying who is error, error to let Loretta Giridano testify about her opposition to the death penalty. Oh, oh, it's fine when the victim's families come up there and say, please put this guy to death for my, that's fine, but then they come up and go, we don't believe in it. No, no, no. That's, I mean, they rig it against it. It's the same reason you have to have a death qualified jury, which is 12 people who say that they are, they believe in a death penalty, right, rather than having some. So it's crazy. That's wild. Why can you do that? I don't know. He gets resentments though here to his earliest parole date will be 2072 when he's 94 years old. Tommy, the, the, the fact that he gets that opportunity is insane. It's 20. He's going to be 94. What opportunities? He should not have, it should be life without no fucking chance. There is no chance. He's going to be 94. I think he's going to do Rob pizza guys at 94, he makes it to 94. He's been in 75 years of who cares? That'd be funny and shit. Yeah. Let him live there forever. No pizza. They'll have a heart attack when he walks out the door. Now, there's a civil lawsuit where the family, the Galara family, suzed Tommy Kaskovich. They sued Reeland and they sue adventure sport for not having a goddamn irresponsible gun fucking. Well done. Yeah. So anyway, the way that works is there's a settlement with figures for the combined civil claims appear to be in the range of 70, it's our $17 million. So we don't know how that split up, but the boys aren't paying shit, adventure sport. But there's a settlement. They got it. Yeah. 2007 New Jersey abolishes the death penalty. Yeah. So he, he ends up, by the way, Tommy starts writing martial project essays and shit like that. A book David Loayosa, Layosa called the pizza killers that Tommy's family is very angry about because they say you lied and talk to Tommy called a liar. There you go. Everybody there is Franklin, New Jersey. What a story. That's a great, what a story, Mark. That's a crazy fucking story. And honestly, we might have been able to do a regular full like that episode on. Possibly just on all the aftermath is so much to cover with all the aftermath. But yeah, we didn't want the story to be two hours of court proceedings, so we did it this way. I hope you enjoy it. I hope so. I hope that's a fuck scenario of how we got the gun in the first place. I hope adventure sport just didn't like claim bankruptcy. I don't know how that works. So I hope not. But either way, there's New Jersey, Franklin and Franklin borough, however you want to say it. There it is. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this show, get on whatever app you're on. Give us five stars. Give a thumbs up on Netflix. It helps a lot. Thank you. I believe this. It's right there. Yeah. So you have to do it. It's on your remote. You know, hard this was. You don't just stand up. You can be whacking off. You could be. Yeah. Doesn't matter. If this is like you do, this is what you do. That's fine. Well, I figure it's over. Yeah. You're cooking that while it's playing. That would be weird. There was brother and sister fucking in this. There's two dudes in their 40s talking about murder. Yeah. That'd be fucking weird. So thank you for doing that. Yeah. Definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for September 18th Milwaukee at the PAPS September 19th Minneapolis State Theater. Get your tickets. Minneapolis. What do you people do and get in there and do that? Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com/crime in sports. $5 a month or above. You get everything that we put out. Hundreds of back. bonus episodes, new shit all the time. As soon as you subscribe, you get almost 400 episodes. Then you get in one crime in sports, one small town murder every other week. This week, crime in sports, Christian power team, bending rebars, yelling about Jesus, while they're taking steroids and there's some scandal, small town murder, internet salad. 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