Blexas and Bliss(issippi), w/ Beto O’Rourke and Wright Thompson

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You can return it for free if you don't like it with their sleep trial. That's www.sleep.me slash bulwark. The headlines will still be there in the morning. You might as well wake up ready for them. Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimists. Pests. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you. Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Daily. I'm your host, Tim Miller. I promised you one soft boy today. You're getting two. All right, because we had an announcement in the Mississippi Senate race. So we've got a double header for you. You've heard of blush and bashful. We've got Blexus and Bliss. Sippy, right? Thompson is coming up in segment two. But up first, he was a former Democratic congressman from El Paso. He's credited as one of the architects behind Turn in Texas Blue. He runs Powered by People now. It's Beto O'Rourke. What's up, Beto? Hey, man. It's good to be with you. And it's great to be alive right now in America. Isn't it? You always were optimistic. But there were some doubts creeping in. You know, it didn't feel like a sure thing at all that this was going to be a phase. You wrote about this in your sub stack last week. How have you been processing all this? The feelings and, you know, kind of what we've been through going back to your race in 18. But then, obviously, throughout the Trump era and a moment a couple years ago. I don't know. The last time we saw each other, it was looking. A lot darker. Yeah. You know, I always had faith in Texas. I think born of the fact that I had met so many people in every single one of the counties. And I just, I just knew that we are so much better than the people who are in power. Like, you know, Ted Cruz, Ken Paxton, Greg Abbott, you know, Texas, Tim. I mean, that's not who we are. But I think it's reflective of, you know, both a party that has been in power for 30 years. And also a state that makes it harder than just about any other to register to vote, to vote, to participate in our politics. Ahead of this most recent election, for example, in Tarrant County, where Fort Worth and Arlington and Dallas Cowboys play. Third largest county in Texas. The Republican County commissioners shut down 92 polling places. A third of all voting sites, including the one at UT Arlington, where 42,000 students used to be able to rely on a polling station. That was removed as well. How did that turn out for them? Amazing. Amazing for us. The county judge who engineered that election interference lost to Elisa Simmons. The county commissioner who they had tried to gerrymander out of her seat. And this Bellwether County in Texas that was called the last reliably red urban county in America decidedly swung for Gina and Tallarico. And Democrats are. Across the county in every one of these races. And yeah, it was a Bellwether for Texas in a huge way and reflected the changes that we saw in the 253 other counties. But I think the theory has always been, if you can somehow overcome this suppression and interference, if in particular, more young people are both registered and voting, you will get better outcomes that are more reflective of who we are as a state. So that was always the. The belief and the faith. And I listened to you and Ezra in your conversation about, you know, faith and religion being injected into democratic politics again. I think there's a component of faith where, you know, you believe in this thing, but you have your doubts. And that's, you know, as old as the stories in the Bible. And it's certainly true if you're a Democrat in Texas. And my doubt was, you know, this is the country and the state for that matter that reelected a man who was defined by. By his cruelty, his corruption, and his incompetence. So, I don't know, maybe this is what America wants. And to have that tested and then so resoundingly rejected, and, you know, not just in Texas, but in Mississippi and in Kansas and in Iowa and really just about everywhere. You asked me how I'm feeling. I'm just ecstatic that we came through in such a big way, tested at. In a way unlike any time, at least in my lifetime. If we had lost this, I think the slide towards authoritarianism would have been nearly unstoppable. To win this, I figured, you know, if we won a majority in the House, maybe we get 51 votes in the Senate. We can fight another round. It's a totally different America, a totally different Texas today. Not as though the road ahead isn't going to be hard, and we don't have some tough choices, but it is a much better, more hopeful. Place, and I'm just excited that we came through. Yeah, I like to use Tarrant County as the example because I feel like that will always be my memory of election night, because that's when my colleague Sarah Longwell started crying when the Tarrant County result came. So, somebody read on our live stream, it's like, oh, it looks like Tallarico is going to win Tarrant County. And she started crying, and I was like, okay, well, this feels like this is turned now. The flip has been switched. You know, we've talked about this before, but your kids now are grown, basically. Young. Young and grown. But, like, this has been their era, right? I mean, like, the Trump era has been kind of the era of their consciousness. And I'm wondering, you know, about your conversations with those kids and kind of how you think about it, and the kids on the campuses that you work with at Powered by People, and kind of the attitude shift you may have seen in the last week. You know, it's funny. I was talking to my youngest son, who's 16, Henry, after election night. We were in Austin, flew home. Early Wednesday morning, was hanging out with Henry on the couch. And we kind of just started talking about how we got here and how our family got here. And we went back 10 years to election night 2016, watching the results, certain Hillary was going to win, put the kids to sleep. When they woke up the next morning, Donald Trump was going to be president of the United States of America. And my wife, Amy, and I knew that to do the same thing the same way and expect a different result was absolutely insufficient. And so, we made this decision, look, we could stay in Congress and, you know, fight on the margins, or we could go right to the heart of the beast, which for us in Texas was Ted Cruz. And that set us off on this 254-county statewide journey, snowball's chance in Texas. And over the course of that, you know, we didn't beat Ted Cruz. We got close. But I think we helped. We were part of this sea change in Texas that opened up all these possibilities. You know, somebody who was on the ballot with me in 2018 was James Tallarico. I rallied with him in Williamson County, where he was running in his first election for the state house. Vicki Goodwin in an Austin-area state house district. She's now our lieutenant governor-elect on that same— Yeah, I got to meet her last week. Yeah, she's— Yeah, on that same ballot. It really fundamentally changed what was possible in Texas, or at least what everybody in Texas believed was possible. For us, and then just staying after it year in, year out, sometimes on the ballot as I was in 2022, but mostly as a volunteer. volunteer with Powered by People, meeting with young people, having conversations, listening, getting them registered, and then importantly, staying in touch to help them overcome these challenges. But over the years and those conversations, Tim, yeah, I think there was an understandable open question as to whether this stuff works. Like, hey, Beto, we were excited about you in 2018. My folks voted for you, my older brothers and sisters, and you didn't win. I don't know if this is worth getting my hopes up again. Or I saw Democrats win, and you guys kept talking about immigration, and you were going to do something about voting rights. And I don't know what the excuse was, but it didn't happen. Or this Epstein stuff, raping and trafficking girls and women. I guess you can be so powerful and well-connected that you can do this with impunity. I don't think this thing works. So overcoming these legitimate questions and concerns about whether we live in a. Democracy at all by doing the work, listening to people, and then winning big victories. Like, hey, look, this does work. Your vote counts. Not only for James Tallarico and Gina and every other statewide Democrat, but we won control of the state house for the first time in 24 years. So you can get shit done in Texas now, and maybe even closer to your life, these county commissioner's courts, these justices of the peace, these elected judges that are changing criminology. They're changing criminal justice in our communities. This is real stuff. And I think that is hitting everybody right now. And so there's that, and now the challenge to deliver on the sky-high expectations that have been set with these elections by these candidates, and this hopeful moment that we find ourselves in. I want to talk about the delivering and Gina in particular, but just indulge a little bit more nostalgia with me. What do you think was different this time? You talked a little bit. Some of this is like the accumulation, right? Like there are Democrats organizing, and I met a young guy that was organizing. Shit, you would have known the county. I should have pulled it up before the podcast, but some place between Louisiana and Houston, you know, East, rural East Texas, you know, they were kind of organizing their community. And that obviously looked and felt hopeless, particularly in that part of the world. So that's part of it. The degree of Trump's rake stepping, I think, and just how bad the economy is and the sort of whiplash of the Iran war, like those to me seem like. Part of the reason why things are different, how bad the candidate Ken Paxton was. Like, how do you kind of analyze it? You lived it to two cycles where it came up a little short. Like, what changed this time? I think it's a lot of what you're talking about. I think you had just historically tough headwinds for Republicans. I mean, that doesn't even begin to describe just how corrupt and venal, cruel and incompetent this Trump administration, and everyone, everyone connected to it is and the betrayal. Yeah. And, and, and how that was seen by people, you know, talking to folks in, in South Texas, you know, this, this long, a bastion of democratic voting power that flipped to Trump in, in 2024. And when I'd ask people there, why did you vote for this guy? They'd say, look, I hate the cruelty. I hate the corruption. I hate all that stuff, but it's a luxury to vote on, on those issues when I can't feed my family or put a roof over my head. This guy's going to put money in my pocket. He's going to bring prices down. This is going to be better for us in the economy. And you're right. Total betrayal on all of that. Plus even more corruption and cruelty and incompetence to boot Ken Paxton. I mean, you couldn't cook this guy up in a lab. You know, if you're trying to design just the worst clown possible that you could run against here. So that's, I kept trying to explain to people, you know, some of my progressive friends or listeners, like, I understand that you think Ted Cruz is the worst of the worst, but, but for, for, if you are a Texas Republican, you know, Ted Cruz might not be your best buddy or the guy you want to hang out with the most, but at least he's like responsive to your views. And like Ken Paxton was significantly worse, like a horrible campaigner, a lazy campaigner, corrupt, didn't even really seem to have a message for MAGA voters. Right. I mean, a category difference. That, that Trump could not help, but openly mock him every time they were in the same auditorium in the same room when Ken Paxton wasn't even there. And he's in the Oval Office talking to reporters. He, you know, Trump, I think got just how historically bad this, this guy was and had to acknowledge it. Couldn't, couldn't help himself. So there was all of that. I think you also had in Texas, not only the people who had run at all positions of the ballot, for the last, you know, 15, 16 years, you know, Wendy Davis in 2014, all the state house congressional candidates, the races that we ran. But for the first time in half a century, you had a Democrat running for every position on the ballot. So 150 state house seats, 150 Democrats running for the first time since 1972. And these were folks running in places you mentioned East Texas or the Panhandle or the South Plains or the Hill Country where you're just not supposed to run because there's no way that you can win. But the theory of the case there was if you have a fighter on every front, they may or may not get over the line, but they're going to connect with and bring in voters that Tallarico and Hinojosa as strong and capable and well-funded as they are, have no hopes of meeting themselves. And I think that theory was born out both in the vote sent up ballot to the top of the ticket, but also in these folks who got across the line in places where you would never expect a Democrat to win. And they did. And then here's the third thing. I think there was a lot of anxiety after 2024. Understandably, the Democrats were lost. We didn't have a national leader. What is the message? The brand is toxic. I think that was incredibly liberating and it allowed for the emergence of an El Sayed in Michigan and a Tallarico in Texas, neither of whom had to labor under the shadow of a dominant Democratic leader who was defining the message for them. And they were free to connect with their voters, reflect what they heard on the campaign trail, be themselves and be the candidates that we needed in every single one of these states. I heard your conversation with Ezra about Cologne yesterday in Mississippi, you know, tough on crime, reflective of the of the communities and the state that he wanted to serve, not beholden to Democrats, even a benefit, a plus, an advantage to be running against the status quo Democratic Party, which so many of these successful candidates did. So I think it was this really magical confluence of of events of talented candidates, work that had been done sometimes, you know, unsuccessfully for a given election cycle, but laying the path for successful candidates today. And then, you know, historically corrupt, incompetent, cruel and low, you know, polling average Republican Party. I night and made this moment possible. Were there any surprising local people that that one that you want to shout out that we wouldn't have heard of any like really kind of inspiring stories in one of these surprise places? You know, going back to to Tarrant County, I mentioned Elisa Simmons. She's a black woman who I first met in 2017. She was the president of the Arlington NAACP. And man, you know, you go into one of these meetings and it's a photo opportunity. You can shake their hand, check this off. I met with the NAACP in Arlington and she was like, no, no, no, no, no. You and I are going to sit down and you're going to understand what the hell is going on in Arlington. And, you know, I like to swear and cuss. This woman has has me beat from from the go. Describes to me why Arlington is the last major American city without a mass transit system, because the city leaders in the 1950s and 1960s did not want black people and brown people and poor people. In in their community explains why it was one of the leaders in the country in officer involved shootings against unarmed suspects and what she is doing to try to fix that. She ultimately wins election to county commissioner's court is just a force for good on that local governing body. So good. The Republicans gerrymander her precinct so that she can't win reelection. And instead of submitting to that, she takes on the boss, the county judge. Which in Texas, these county executives hold extraordinary power. And in response to that, I mentioned earlier, the county judge shuts down ninety two polling locations. So look, if people can't vote in a city where you don't have a mass transit system or forty two thousand students with them without cars no longer have a polling site, how in the world could she possibly pull this off? And at the end of the day, she did. And she was such a tenacious fighter. And thank God that James Tallarico, Jasmine Crockett, Gina, Ina Hossa, I mean, everybody in in Texas politics was there having her back. So she, Dr. Letitia Plummer, who was her colleague in Harris County, where Houston, Texas was, she won county judge there. Dexter McCoy, local candidate in Fort Bend County next to Harris County. These are the unsung heroes who won won their elections that are going to make life better for the people that they serve. But two, I really think they help power Tallarico and Gina. And these other statewide Democrats' victories by rolling up the votes in these local communities in a way that's. that wouldn't have been possible if they had not run in the first place. Think about the last time something broke in your house, not a leaky faucet, but a real breakdown, a pipe burst on a Saturday night, your water heater goes out with no warning, you're scrambling, you don't know who to call, whatever it costs, you'll pay it. That can cost a lot of money. Everything costs way more than you think. And so our friends at HomeServe are here to try to help you deal with that and ensure that you've got some security when it comes to unexpected home repairs. HomeServe is a subscription for your home for as little as $4.99 a month. They've got your back. 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That's homeserve.com slash bulwark for 50% less savings compared to a renewable price void in California and Florida. Let's talk about the what's next and particularly at the state level with Governor Hinojosa, which is a nice, has a nice ring to it. I guess just open-ended, you know, since you're there, like, is there low-hanging fruit? Like, what are things that can be accomplished? Like, what are you kind of looking at? So in Texas, the legislature meets once every two years from January to essentially, mid, late May. And that's the window within which she and this new Democratic majority in the state house can get things done. And I think the opportunity and challenge for them is to deliver in a way that makes people's lives better. They feel this immediately and that they take credit for it. So some low-hanging fruit. Minimum wage in Texas is $7.25 an hour. You can raise that so that folks can work just one job instead of three in order to make ends meet. Two, we are the least insured state in America. So harder to see a doctor here than anywhere else. We could expand Medicaid where the federal government through our tax dollars that we paid out of Texas and income taxes will pay 90 cents on the dollar for expansion. This is a no-brainer in terms of improving people's lives, but also incredibly fiscally sound and will be a boon to the Texas economy. The third thing, and this is what Gina has really distinguished herself on. She first got into politics running for a local school board in Austin, and then to the state legislature to work on public education. We have this god-awful voucher scam that has drained our tax dollars out of local schools to send them to private schools, basically to subsidize families who are already sending their children to these private institutions. So clawing back that money and then doubling down and adding to it so that our educators are not also driving Uber, or tending bar in order to have the privilege of teaching our kids, those local school districts, especially in rural Texas, they are the larger employer. That high school is the primary source of pride. Friday Night Lights, right? Going on right now all across the state of Texas. Those are the communities and the places hardest hit. And this potential realignment that so many people have dreamed about and looks possible right now, this is an opportunity for Gina and the state-led Democrats to see that. And I think it's a great opportunity for us to see that. And I think it's a great opportunity for us to seize upon that and deliver for everyone. And I don't think anyone will feel it more than the rural Texan whose hospital has been shut down because we have not expanded Medicaid, whose schools are consolidating because we've drained them of the resources they need to stay open, and who have a lot of people, whether they're working in the meatpacking plant or the slaughterhouse or out in the fields, who are working for minimum wage right now. So she can deliver for everybody. Not that it's going to be easy because we have Republican control in the state Senate, but she has real leverage right now because she also has the attorney general, the lieutenant governor, the land commissioner, the ag commissioner, the railroad commissioner, literally every statewide office that we could win. We cleared the bar. So I'm feeling hopeful and I'm excited. And I stand by, as do millions of us, to support her in every way that we can to make sure that she can deliver. What do you think about the immigration front? I mean, like Texas is in Louisiana, our two states are the center of where these detention camps are. There are some stuff she can do at the state level, the degree to which you cooperate with ICE agents. And these detention camps are in her jurisdiction. I believe we're still a federalist country. There's still some states' rights and maybe oversight over them. Like what do you think is possible there? I know sometimes Democrats are a little skittish about, you know, going there on this issue. Yeah. We're talking about making people's lives better in a way that they feel immediately and then taking credit for it. You can do that on immigration as well. So my kids have all gone to El Paso High School. One of their classmates and her mom and dad were just picked up by ICE. Instead of going to senior night, she is in the Dilley Detention Center right now. We're hosting a vigil for Michelle this coming week to draw attention to it. But yes, let's protest. Let's draw attention. But let's actually change this. You know, many of these facilities need some form of state permitting. And again, this is a place where incoming governor-elect Gina, Hosa is going to have some leverage and ability to change things and exact concessions from the Trump administration. And she should absolutely do it. You're now seeing local elected officials like John Whitmire, the Democrat slash Republican mayor of Houston, Texas, announcing that the Houston Police Department will no longer work with ICE. They had been doing it until this election. Elections matter, right? And you're going to see county governments and county sheriffs who are independently elected in the state of Texas following suit as well. And Governor Hosa, Governor-elect Hosa has carrots and sticks. Let's do governor. Governor Hosa has carrots and sticks that she can offer to these 254 independently elected county sheriffs to make it easier for them to do the right thing. And the public safety argument, I think you get this, Tim, but it bears repeating is, you know, not only do you stop the cruelty, the family, separation, kidnapping kids, killing people like Lorenzo Salgado, who was murdered in Houston, Texas, but you also make our communities safer because folks no longer fear reporting a crime to the police or the sheriff's office for fear that their family will be investigated and broken up. They're now free to testify in trials to make sure that their communities and neighborhoods are a lot safer. And it's not just me saying this, it's, you know, local police chiefs and sheriffs who will corroborate. So I think Gina can run on law and order at the same time that she ends the cruelty of ICE in Texas. Let's go to D.C. Talrico is speaking at this event that I'm at here in Denver right now yesterday, and there was one part in particular that got a lot of attention. I want to play that for you. But the American people cannot wait two years for change. So we must work with President Trump. If President Trump wants the same plaques and portraits and busts as LBJ, we can help make that a reality. We should make the final two years of his presidency the most productive of any presidency in American history. It's hard for me to swallow, but probably right. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, I love this guy. I think he's right. Tim, I was thinking about this today, and you tell me what you think. So this is a roundabout way of answering this question about what Talrico just said. There are some parallels to the 1930 midterm. And I think it's really interesting and really rich because Trump has said over and over and over again, I don't want to be compared to President Hoover. And Hoover lost this landslide midterm. I think there were over 50 House of Representatives flips from Republican to Democrat, ultimately one majority there. In the Senate, I think we won eight or nine seats. We didn't win a majority in the Senate. But the Democratic Party was ascendant in the face of, you know, awful concentration of power and privilege and the politically- I like how you're just calling the 1930s Democratic Party, we. I'm not quite there yet. I mean, you know, I've made a lot of changes last year. It's kind of like, you know, you're calling your football team, we. The 1930s Democratic Party, we came up a little short. Fair enough. Fair enough. Let me just say the 1930s Democratic Party, we came up a little short. Okay. And so once they are seated, they pursue a really ambitious agenda to deliver for American people who are out of work, who are homeless, who are having a hard time feeding themselves. And they propose this legislation, they get it passed in the House, they get it passed in the Senate, and they dare Hoover to veto it. And he does, but the public blowback is so strong that Hoover has to come back to the table. And he has to come back to the table. And he has to come back and ends up conceding and getting this help out to him American people whose lives literally depend on it right now. And the kicker to that story, of course, is that it sets up FDR in 1932 and the New Deal. And maybe you would agree with me there that maybe those are more like our Democrats, at least in terms of being able to help people with really big, ambitious programs that show that government in America can work. And so I like where Tallarico is going on this. Let us prove to the American people that by electing us, we will make their lives better in a way that they can feel it. And let's make sure to take credit for it. And let's acknowledge that Trump still has the power of the pen. And it might be hard to get everything done, but we can lay the ground for what will be in 2028, I hope, a Democratic victory for the White House. Maybe Texas's 40 electoral college votes play a key role in that. And then we do. Do the really big, ambitious things that meet the moment, that have been unresolved for at least the last 10 years, and I think help explain so much of the political chaos and the whiplash that we're feeling from 2016 through 2026. That's my hope. That's my kind of, you know, no analogy is perfect, but that's my read on why I think Tallarico is right. Tim, tell me how I'm wrong. I get a little bit nervous when I hear Democrats saying big and ambitious, because a lot of times that means complicated. And a lot of backlash, a lot of white papers. And I'm basically with you if the thing is, we have a few simple things that we know the American people want that we're going to put on Trump's desk, you know, whatever that is. We talked about that yesterday, Medicare for more Medicare kids or something, or we're going to build a million houses or whatever. Like, we're going to have a tax hike on people making 500k or more. We're going to use it to fund X, right? Like, if we're talking about a handful of very simple things that people can understand, see if Trump. I'm for it. I get a little bit worried that what ends up happening with 260 House members and 56 Senate members is everybody gets a pen on something, you know, every interest group gets a pen on something. And then you end up sending something through that has five elements of it that are really unpopular that then are on Fox News all the time. And all of a sudden, Trump's on offense. You know what I mean? You've given him a gift instead of put pressure on him. So that would be what I would implore the Democrats in Congress to do. Find simple, popular things, make him veto it. And if they do that, I'm for it. Otherwise, let's just investigate him. That's where I'm at. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts while we're at it on the other news? Chris Van Honsen, he's going to pop in and challenge Schumer. Do you have a hot take on that? Or from El Paso, do you don't really care about Senate leadership battles? No, I think it's important to have a strong leader in the Senate and a strong communicator in the Senate and also to reflect what just happened in this country. The page has been turned. And I think that has to. To include the leadership for the Democratic Party. And so I'm glad that Van Hollen has stepped up. He's the underdog in this race. Schumer claims to have the votes. But I've been reading what some of the incoming senators-elect have been saying, Abdul El-Sayed in particular, who seems very excited about Van Hollen. I think that's the right move. And I think Chuck Schumer's had a great career in the Senate, has done. Extraordinary work. And I think does deserve some credit for helping to produce these victories. But I don't think that entitles him to this critical leadership position at this point where we're either going to make the most of these gains, or as you just shared in your anxiety or your concern about what Democrats could do, we could squander it. And so I'd love to see really strong, very bold leadership. And I think that's the right move. who can communicate effectively. And, you know, do people care what you say at a press conference or what you read aloud on the Senate floor? Probably not. And I think you need somebody who understands that. And, you know, I think I don't know enough about Chris Van Hollen to say, But I don't know that you could do worse than Schumer. I think it's going to be the two of them. Slotkin was also thinking about getting in, and I have pretty good authority she's not going to. So we'll see how that plays out. I've been having a little afternoon power drink, a little energy drink, so I can churn out the content. Then I get to the bed. The brain's moving. My heart's beating. And I'm thinking to myself, you know what I wish I had right now? I wish I had the ChiliPad. The ChiliPad 2.0 is a water-based mattress topper that actively controls your bed temperature from 55 to 115 degrees all night long. ChiliPad 2.0 actively cools or warms, if that's your cup of tea, your bed. It does it using water. And water is the key here. The ChiliPad uses actively chilled water to pull heat away from your body. One actually works. You get dual zones. Each of you can dial your own chili pan to the right chili temperature for you. Can't wait to get back home to a ChiliPad. No ChiliPad here at the Atlanta Hotel, but it's coming for me. It's coming soon. If you visit www.sleep.me to get up to $640 off your ChiliPad 2.0 with code BULWARK as an added holiday offer, ChiliPad is including a three-year protection plan for free. This increases your ChiliPad 2.0 value to up to $1,038. The special offer is available for the Bulwark listeners and only for a limited time. That's www.sleep.me. This is Iris Palmer from Against All Odds with Iris Palmer. There's something about the holidays that takes you right back to being a kid. Maybe it's waking up to the smell of baking, hearing tuki-tuki playing in the kitchen, or seeing that one tío who insists it's not a party until he gets there. And you know what? He's probably right. For me, the best part of the holidays has always been the food. Not just because it's delicious, but because every dish has a story. Like the tamales your abuela spent all morning making, or the arroz con pollo that's been passed down from one generation to the next. Then there's that first bite when everyone's finally sitting down together. Que rico. And we can't forget the finishing touch. No meal is complete without delicious Coca-Cola on the table. That crisp, refreshing taste is the perfect pairing for those holiday favorites. And the beautiful thing is, traditions don't have to stay the same. You can eat everything you want. You can eat whatever you want. It's the same. Maybe you're hosting your first Friendsgiving or bringing some pupusas to your co-workers so that they can get a taste of your culture. However you celebrate, it's the people and the little moments that make it special. So grab some Coca-Cola on your next grocery run and make room for a few more memories. Disfruta Coca-Cola. Okay, I'm contractually obligated as a podcaster to ask you three questions. Okay, are you ready? I think so. You kind of referenced one of them already. The first one's the easiest. Is Texas really in play in 28, you think? Yeah, for the first time since 1976, we could award our electoral college votes to the Democratic nominee. And that sounded so far-fetched two weeks ago. Yeah, I know. Insane, actually. I think it's really, it's ours to lose now, given what happened in Texas. I think every single one of the 254 counties of Texas, including the most rural, you know, pro-Trump counties, moved in our direction. And I don't want to misread this, and it's not permanent. There are about a million-plus people that didn't vote, and I'm guessing a lot of, obviously, a lot of those were Trump voters. So, you know, there's still a big challenge. That's exactly right. But I think having Gina, having James, having all these other Democrats, including, and this is really, really important at the county level, where you decide the polling locations and how many polling sites you'll have and what the rules are around voting, you know, that's huge. And a major change from this highly voter-suppressive state that we've been living in right now. And again, theory of the case is, if you allow people to vote, they'll choose better things in Texas. And so, I think we can test that in 2028. But you probably know this, we could, by 2032, after the 2030 census and reapportionment, we could win the big seven battleground states of 2024, and we'd still lose the White House if we didn't pick up Texas and some of the more successful states in the world. Sunbelt southern states that are now in contention. Or inverse, you could just win Texas and Arizona, and it's over, basically. And so, this state that has been starved of resources, I think, and I hope, and I'm going to work to ensure that this happens, I think will now receive the money that it needs to build out the things that just haven't been done here. I mean, there's no reason powered by people should be doing so much of this registration and voter turnout work. That's squarely within the purview of a state party. It's just that our state party never had the resources to do this work, so we had to do it. yeah you know ourselves out there right i mean i was the travis county i'm at the travis county chair luke when i was in austin uh last week and he was like he had to take over the job basically because they had no money the austin county party had no money and that tells you what you need to know on that tuesday i was thinking about you a lot of people i think were thinking about you was there any like hint of i've got right thompson on next so we're going to do sports so is there any hint of like no i could have been a contender type melancholy there or were you able to just enjoy it no absolutely not even a little hint no and i'll tell you what i'm you know over the years of course i've i've thought about these elections and especially the 2018 senate race where we got so close but i but i always return to that moment in 2016 when amy and i decided to do this and we decided to do it not because hey wouldn't it be great if i were in in the senate or wouldn't it be great if i held this this other office but man our country is under attack right now in a big way and if we don't respond in the biggest way possible we might lose it and so the the campaigns the work that i've been doing with power by people has all been in service of trying to meet this challenge and overcome it and on election night last tuesday we took a huge step in getting there and so that is deeply fulfilling to me that that has been the goal and so i i just count myself lucky for having been a part of that um i think all the folks that have volunteered with me in the senate race the governor's race with power by people i think are also super grateful that they got to play a role in this and and you know i was one of those who ran and didn't win but as i mentioned earlier hundreds if not thousands of candidates at the down ballot and local level have also had that same experience and i think helped to produce the conditions necessary for us to seize this historic opportunity that presented itself in this election cycle you know historically weakened republican party corrupt president all that stuff but you needed really strong candidates who could build upon the work that had been done over this last decade plus you know starting with wendy davis in in 2014. so that's the way i feel about it and no i am happy you started this conversation talking about you know our kids and uh i just am so grateful that they can see that this work makes a difference because i i don't know you'd have to ask them but i i wonder if at times they're like man is is my dad nuts like why does he keep doing this like he's just he's just running into a brick wall this isn't going to change we live in texas this is just the way that things are i don't i don't know that that's how they feel but i would forgive them if they did because it's totally rational and understandable so to be able to prove that this is worth it especially to my kids for whom we did this in the first place that is richly rewarding and i'm grateful for the opportunity i actually believe you which i love that's true i know i know because i had like a hint of melancholy for you last week and it's like a lot of politicians would give the answer you just gave a little bit more hackneyed and they would be full of you know but like this just isn't you're not full of you can just tell for the audio listeners you can look at them like you're happy yeah you're really happy yeah we should be happy we should right you know this is what we've been working for and it happened yeah is the final chapter a rematch though four years away um i don't know it's funny i was talking uh my wife's traveling right now i was talking to her on the phone last night and i told her that somebody had asked me that and i said man i can't i can't live my life you know waiting and working something four years away. And then it gets into this thing, Tim. So you asked a really good, and for me, a very personal question about ambition and ego. And I just think that fucks you up. And I think it turns you into someone you don't want to be. I remember when I was on the city council in El Paso, a job that I really loved. And I feel like I was really good at, and it's just really rewarding. I mean, you're, you're where the rubber meets the road. There's no buffer between you and the people you represent. They can find you in the supermarket or attend a city council meeting and just get on your ass for the thing that you said you were going to do. And you didn't do that just makes you want to do it even more. And it's, it's also a job in which you're able to see, you know, the fruit of your labor very, very quickly. And I was good at it. And people would say, Hey, maybe you should run for Congress or something, state Senator or whatever. And I early on recognized that if I allowed that thought to infect, my, my head, I just start acting differently. I'd play it safe. I wouldn't say the thing that I really believed in. I, I wouldn't pursue this thing that I knew was right because maybe it would bite me on the ass when I, when I ran for Congress. So I said, all right, I'm just going to put that out of my head when I was in Congress, you know, kind of same deal. Like, Oh, maybe you could run for Senate someday. Well, no, that's fucking crazy. We live in, we live in Texas and I'll just, I'll, it'll fundamentally change who I am. And so I just did the best job I could as a member of Congress. And then when it became clear that I needed to run for Senate, I did that. And I never, you know, as you know, from, from watching that campaign, I just, I never let, you know, polling or, you know, what is politically advantageous or, you know, which way the wind is blowing, determine what we did, what we said, where we went, how, how hard we were going to fight for people. And that is always, you know, win, lose, or draw. That's always been the most rewarding way to do public service. When, when you are so scripted and calculated and triangulated, I think it just kills the human being inside of you and you become more of a, a robot. And I just, I never want to do that. So sorry for indulging my therapy on this, but I just, I just don't want to, I don't want to think about 2030. And also look, I should acknowledge this. I am becoming an old man and I I'm 54 years old right now, which given what, happened, uh, on, on election night, Tuesday makes me old compared to all these young, amazing people who are coming up. And in Texas, we have this embarrassment of riches. You have Jasmine Crockett, who's I think story has just begun to be told. You have, um, Christian Pallido, Christian, great guy. You have all these amazing people who are coming up right now, who I think should be in contention for that. That 2030 race. So look, whatever way I can be helpful as, as long as we're stay focused on, on this goal of America that reflects these values that we hold are foundational principles of raw created equal will be treated equally under the law and a government of, by, and for the people. And as corny as all of that sounds, that's what I believe in. That's what moves me. And that's why I'm so happy right now. And I just want to keep it going. Yeah. My coming of age story, you know, imagination wants the final chapter to be to beat Raphael's ass, but, uh, I appreciate the candor and, uh, and you're right, man, that's life. I didn't always like that, but, uh, I'm really, I appreciate you so much and all the work you've been putting in. And I know that a lot of people were thinking about you and the work you put in and Wendy and everybody, um, last Tuesday, and it's really satisfying. So thanks for coming on the show and we'll stay in touch. All right, brother. Thank you. We'll see you soon. All right. We will up next, right? Thompson. All right, guys. I don't know about you, but we're two weeks out from the election and sometimes my blood's pumping a little too high at night. Yeah. I've been have a little afternoon power drink, a little energy drink so I can turn out the content. Then I get to the bed, the brain's moving, my heart's beaten. Chili pad 2.0 actively cools or warms. If that's your cup of tea, your bed, it does it using water and water is the key here. One actually works. You get dual zones. Each of you can dial your own chili pad to the bottom of your bed. You can dial your own chili pad to the bottom of your bed. You the right chili temperature for you. No chili pad here at the Atlanta hotel, but it's coming for me. It's coming soon. If you visit www.sleep.me slash bulwark to get up to 640 bucks off your chili pad 2.0 with code bulwark as an added holiday offer. feel like Bob Barker. And you know what? He's probably right. Then there's that first bite, when it's time to eat. And then there's that first bite, when it's time to eat. And then everyone's finally sitting down together. ¡Qué rico! Maybe you're hosting your first Friendsgiving, or bringing some pupusas to your co-workers so that they can get a taste of your culture. So grab some Coca-Cola, on your next grocery run, and make room for a few more memories. Disfruta Coca-Cola. All right, we are back. He's a senior writer at ESPN. His books include The Barn, about the murder of Emmett Till in 1955, and Pappyland, about Pappy Van Winkle, whiskey. You know, so he's got a broad remit. He's also executive producer of the show True South, about Southern food culture and history. It's my guy, Wright Thompson. Wright Thompson, Mississippi is blue, brother. All right. It's a pretty wild day, I mean, I, you know, there is the political aspect of it, but for a lot of us, it's also very personal. I mean, this is, you know, a lot of our fathers worked very hard for this and didn't live to see it. You know, my father helped run the campaign for Robert Clark, who was the first Black candidate for Congress since Reconstruction, and in 1982, and they burned a cross in our front yard. And like, literally, you know, 1982, I was six. And so, you know, sure, this is about politics and policy in the country, but for a lot of us, there were a lot of ghosts running around Tuesday night, sitting in the room with us, watching the returns come in. And I certainly remembered being a child, riding the polls on election day with my father, going out to Sherrod, Mississippi, to Cagle's Crossing, going out to Reno-Laura, checking all the polls in Cahoma County. And I just feel like, he was there with me. I know my mom and I talked about that election night, like we both were texting with each other and saying, you know, your daddy is watching down and he's very, very happy. I love that. I love that big smile on your face when you came on to talk about it. I want to ask about your mom, because for people who've listened to this, we've had you on a few times, talking about Mississippi over the past year. And the first time you were on, you spoke about how your mother was posting a lot about on Facebook, doing a lot of resistance posting. Anti-Trump posting, pro-Cologne posting. And we asked her, and you said that you were a little nervous about that. She was like drawing so much attention to herself. And she had said that she was silent the last time this happened. And she told herself that it never happened again. She was not going to be silent again. And that really resonated with a lot of the listeners. And I hear about it still a lot from people when I see them. And so I know a lot of them were thinking about your mom and her Facebook posting on election day. And I know a lot of them were thinking about your mom and her Facebook posting on election night. So how's she feeling? I just got off the phone with her. She is elated. She said to tell the listeners that she said she got a lot of Instagram and Facebook friend requests. And she wanted to apologize to people for not accepting them. But she's very, very private. But she was very, very flattered. So thank you to all of your listeners for being so kind to my mama, which is the only thing that really matters to me. You know, the thing she said this morning, that I think is really wise is this is this was not a vote against things. This was a vote for something. And that, you know, sure, it you know, the pundits, as she put it, are talking about Iran and about affordability and about ice and about, you know, the corruption. But I also think that the core of American identity is this belief in the promise of a more perfect union that we might take three steps forward and one step back, but that we are trying to be good. And we have very different ways to get there about health care, about guns, about schools, about commerce, about the economy, about unions. And those are not only acceptable, those are good. But that for the first time in our lives, you had people running the country who didn't even believe in the idea of good. And I think it was such an assault on American values. And I think it was such an assault on American values, on the American tribe, on what we need to believe about ourselves to be a citizenry. And I think people just stood up and said no and said yes to the idea that we should disagree. We should have partisan politics. Tate Reeves and I should agree on nothing except that we both love Mississippi and we both love the United States of America and we both love our families. And it felt like mourning in Mississippi to me and to her. And somebody who had a, she had a cross burned on her front yard and to maintain a belief that there is a goodness in America that could overcome that darkness and what the pundits were worried about. I mean, that's a pretty steely resolve in her state and country. But that is at the core of what it means to be an American. I mean, the optimism, the belief that tomorrow can be better. I think people don't want one party. They don't want everybody to agree on but they want everyone to agree on the fact that the arc of the American moral universe bends toward justice. And, you know, the, I mean, 1982, they burned the cross. And I found out, my father never told me who did it, but he knew. And I found out later. And I went to elementary school with the daughter of the guy who burned the cross. I mean, this is up close and personal for a lot of us. We have been doing this with friends and neighbors for a very, very long time. And I think even the people who fundamentally disagree with everything the Democratic Party says in Mississippi were happy to see their friends and neighbors happy. I mean, I've heard from people who didn't vote for him, who like understood what it meant to Mississippi and why it was important. And that was beautiful to see. I mean, I'm in the, like, look, I'm in the honeymoon of it, but. Sure. No, let's, we're living in the honeymoon. I felt that way. Yeah. And I voted for 2008, but I voted at a precinct that was at a school and it was a black school. And there are all these kids out there shooting hoops before school. I was there before work in the morning and I leaned to the fence and I shouted at the kids and I was like, who should I vote for? And they were all going, Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama. And, you know, I was in DC, so my vote didn't matter one whit. Anyway, I mean, I think the depth of that is obviously different than the depth of the kind of racial hatred in Mississippi that you write about and have covered. But that is a center. That's a sentiment that you can tap into, right? That somebody who maybe doesn't like Scott Colum's politics could still feel good about their state this week. Well, that in, you know, Mississippians are bound together by the way the rest of the country thinks about us. And that's white and black. That's rich and poor. That is all of us. You know, there's, my dad used to always say, you know, you're always cheering for a Mississippian to do well, whether that is Jimmy Buffett or Walter Payton. And like, like, and I think that matters to people that, that we support Mississippians. You know, I love that Murley Evers Williams quote, yes, Mississippi was, but Mississippi is. And so, you know, Mississippi will always be a centrist sort of conservative leaning state because it's rural, it's agricultural, it's deeply rooted in the past. But, you know, I felt this was one of the first election cycles of my lifetime where people started to realize that Mississippi, has been flailing since the price of cotton collapsed in 1923. I mean, I write about this in the barn, but Mississippi has been flailing for a reason to exist and a thing to be since the price of cotton collapsed. And it feels like after 103 years now, since it collapsed, we've been living in sort of this political feedback loop of the past. And this feels like an investment in the future. I want to do some more Mississippi history with you, but just on, on Scott Cologne for a sec. Scott Cologne: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. He's funny. He's smart. He is measured. He is proud of his home. I mean, he is all the things that a Mississippian wants another Mississippian to be, whether you're talking about David Banner or Elvis Presley or Muddy Waters or Kiese Lehman or, you know, I mean, He represents the very best of us. When so often Mississippi has been a laboratory where big damaging ideas are beta tested, it felt like he was speaking as a Mississippian for Mississippians to Mississippians and not just to the Mississippians who agree with it, which is important. I love K.S.A. Lehman, by the way. What's that book that he wrote? He wrote Heavy. Long Division. Long Division. Heavens for good. Long Division I fucking loved, though. That's really good. In the way that Faulkner was the greatest living Mississippi writer and then probably, you know, Eudora Welty was the greatest living Mississippi writer. I mean, now to me, it's clearly K.S.A. I want to play a little bit from the last ad that Scott Cologne put up for his Senate race outside and inside the home of Medgar Evers. Let's play that. This isn't any house. This isn't any tragedy. This is where Medgar Evers died. He fought. He fought for this country and Normandy. He came home to Mississippi and they wouldn't let him vote. So he organized, helping other people register. Just after midnight on June 12th, 1963, he pulled into here with an armful of T-shirts that said, Jim Crow must go. A man hiding across the street shot him in the back. Two juries let that man walk. His wife, Merle, never stopped. It took 31 years. Then a Mississippi prosecutor reopened the case and a Mississippi jury, both black and white, convicted him. In Mississippi, no one is above the law and no one should be outside its protection. He was killed for helping Mississippians vote. On Tuesday, use your vote and honor everyone who died for that right. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, that's incredibly emotional. It reminds me of the story. There's a guy named Willie Reed. He was one of the witnesses in the murder trial of Emmett Till. He lived right next door to the barn where Emmett was murdered. And on that Sunday morning, he was walking to get some stuff from a country store. And J.W. Milam drove right past him with Emmett Till in his truck. And Willie Reed hid behind a well and listened to screams turn to cries, turn to whimpers, turn to silence. And he everyone in his family told him not to testify. And he just thought, I have to do the right thing. And he stood up and he pointed at them and he accused them of murder. And maybe the day he testified, maybe the day after they'd had so many threats, they knew they had to get him out of Mississippi. The NAACP organized a car and an airplane flight. Willie Reed left his home, the only home he'd ever known. He took a right. He walked down the Drew to Ruleville Road to Ruleville, Mississippi, the hometown of Fannie Lou Hamer, who was living in the town at the time. And he got to the intersection of the Drew to Ruleville Road. And there was an Oldsmobile 88 waiting there to pick him up. And the man driving that car in 1955 was Medgar Evers. And I got invited to the dedication ceremony after Shonda Rhimes, who's incredible, bought the barn. And I decided that Willie Reed's widow, Juliette Lewis, needed to go. And so I went to Chicago and I went to her house and I picked her up and I drove her to the train station. And we took the train. I took the train all night to Mississippi and I got her into our hotel. And the next day I took her to the barn and there was a ceremony. And I looked up at this tiny, small ceremony and I looked at Juliette Lewis. And then I saw Rena Evers, who was Medgar's daughter. And I, I, I burst into tears because her daddy picked up her husband in the middle of the night on that road. And Medgar Evers' name. Medgar Evers' name is spoken like a prayer in Mississippi. And people outside of Mississippi don't really understand that you don't walk around with his name in your mouth lightly. And that ad hit like a ton of bricks because his name is a prayer. As people can tell from this, if you haven't read the barn, it's emotional. It also is so tied to location. And I thought maybe one way for us to. Like make sense of what happened is you have this historical perspective and I'm kind of looking at this, all this like a political nerd. And I just started looking at the map and I was like, can Mississippi actually be blue again in the future? And you look at the map and you saw what happened and how Scott Cologne won. And I thought it was interesting. And I want to go through it with you. And I'm sure you'll have kind of thoughts on the different parts of the state. But they, they flipped the counties up like that are out right on the border from Memphis, like DeSoto County, which I assume is a lot. A lot of people just, it's almost suburbs at this point, exurbs of Memphis. It is. And it's, I mean, well, so one of the things you have to sort of realize is that Memphis is the capital of the Mississippi Delta. And that the great sociologist Zandria Robinson says that you can't see Memphis unless you see the rural urban interplay between Mississippi and Memphis across the state line. And so, yeah, those are all bedroom communities, you know, places where. People just want jobs and families and, you know, ideology often sort of dies on the anvil of reality. Even the college towns have been, you know, in Mississippi are conservative, right? We've all seen the videos from what happens in the groves sometimes and in Hattiesburg. But Cologne wins Forest County named after Nathan Bedford Forest, home of University of Southern Miss. They win Lafayette County, which is where Oxford is. Barely, barely. But he wins it. And, oh, boy. I'm going to. I'm going to brutalize the name of the county where Mississippi State is. Octibaha. Octibaha. Octibaha. But I've driven, you know, I had a lot of friends go to Ole Miss. I've driven around. Are they saying it, Lafayette? Are they saying Lafayette? Do they say it Lafayette? They're saying Lafayette. That's right. I knew that. My fucking friends from Ole Miss are going to be mad at me for getting it wrong the first time. But I've driven around Lafayette and went to a juke joint and, you know, had to go into town. And, you know, it's this little college town surrounded by rurals. I mean, I think that's also potentially telling, you know, that Lafayette County goes for Cologne. Well, look, I mean, anybody who lives in any way connected to global commodity markets, which is all of us, is against this. And, you know, we talked about that the last time on the show is that farmers were standing. And, like, people said I was crazy. Like, my incoming email on that was pretty astonishing. Just people saying that this isn't true. Farmers. Farmers are going to vote for Trump. Yeah, yeah. Just you're an idiot. And, you know. I mean, this goes. If you get outside Lafayette, just real quick, because we'll love these together. Like, the next county down is Yalabusha. Yalabusha, the home of Larry Brown, the writer. Yalabusha. But, I mean, this was a Trump plus 21 county. The Cologne wins. Yeah. People, like, this is not. This is how the American people stand up and say stop. And, you know, and especially in Mississippi. Where people are understanding sort of for the first time, I think, that race and class are always combined in Mississippi in ways that I guess they are everywhere else. But it's very important here. And you certainly saw that on Tuesday. And, you know, they're flipping these counties where people are looking at a White House covered in gold. And they can't pay their bills. And billionaires getting more billions. And they just have had enough. I mean, obviously, there are Black folks in all of these counties in Mississippi. But a lot of that is rural Whites. You get into the Black Belt and see the numbers that he ran up. And the barn is in Sunflower County. Is that right? The barn is in Sunflower County. Yeah. Home of Fannie Lou Hamer and Jim Eastland. Oh, really? So, I looked at that one again just to kind of see, just as a baseline. It was the same story throughout kind of the Black Belt. He wins 76 to 25. Fifty-one points. Yeah. Fifteen-point gain over Harris. Right? And so, you know, this was like an overwhelming rebuke in the part of the world where Emmett Till was killed. Well, I know. And it's a realization that we've got to try something different. That what we've been trying for 103 years isn't working. You know, I keep thinking about you could cut this if you want. But if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to sort of read you something out of the barn. Why would we try that? It deals with this. No, please. So, the price of cotton collapsed in 1923 and limped along. And then in 1933, the federal government took over the cotton industry and essentially retains control of it today so that American farmers can compete on world markets and so that tractor companies can sell all of this stuff. I mean, in many ways, what people don't realize is farm subsidies are industrial pass-through subsidies. So, I think that's a good thing. I think this helps explain what happened on Tuesday. So, the great Mississippi Delta cotton boom, which created the blues and set the stage for the murder of Emmett Till and so many others, only lasted 20 years. These two decades also marked the peak of the lost cause mythology. I don't know if you've ever been to Mississippi, but there are Confederate statues everywhere, nearly all of them on courthouse lawns. They became big news during the unrest of 2020. History. their defenders called them. And they were exactly right. These statues hold a lot of history. Consider the history of cotton in the Delta. The land clearing finished around 1900. The price of cotton collapsed for good in 1923. And what happened in between? Port Gibson and Aberdeen raised statues in 1900. Macon in 1901. Fayette in 1904. Carrollton and Beulah in Oklahoma in 1905. Tupelo and Ole Miss in 1906. Brandon and Oxford and West Point in 1907. Cleveland and Lexington and Raymond and Duck Hill in 1908. Greenville and Winona in 1909. Hattiesburg twice and Grenada in 1910. Gulfport and Kosciuszko and Quipman and Ripley in Brooksville and Heidelberg in 1911. Columbus and Laurel and Meridian in Philadelphia and Vaden in 1912. Greenwood and Sumner in 1913. Greenwood again in 1915. Hazlehurst in 1917. Louisville in 1921. Not a single courthouse statue in 1915. The state of Mississippi was erected after cotton's collapse in 1923. We are still caught in the feedback loop of the nostalgia for a time when we were economically viable. And one of the main things Scott's campaign was about was about addressing that. That it has been 103 years since cotton was king and we are still fumbling around in the dark trying to figure out who we are and why we're here. And I think Scott Colom spoke to that in an existential way. That resonated with lots of people. It's pretty wild. 1906, you said it was Oxford. So it's 120 years later, you know. It's crazy that all that happened in that 20-year period, long after the Civil War's over, notably. You know, all those statues go up in that same period. I mean, that's the one that I've circled around the most. My friend had an apartment that looked out at the statue. So I've sat there, hung over on the balcony quite a few times when I was younger. Like the idea that then, it takes 120 years, right? Because there's not, and there's some Democratic senators, but it's, it's the segregationists, you know. And there had been previously, briefly during Reconstruction, black senators in representation of Mississippi. So from the moment that statue goes up in 1906, it's 2026, 120 years later that Scott Colom wins Lafayette County. And, you know, the descendants of the same people who put the statue up were in many cases, the descendants of the people who voted for Scott Colom. Mississippi was, but Mississippi is. You know, I've been, have a little afternoon power drink, a little energy drink, so I can churn out the content. One actually works. You get dual zones. No Chili Pad. Here at the Atlanta Hotel. It's coming soon. If you visit www.sleep.me/bullwark to get up to $640 off your Chili Pad 2.0 with code BULLWARK as an added holiday offer. The special offer is available for the Bullwark listeners and only for a limited time. That's www.sleep.me slash bullwark. Maybe it's waking up to the smell of baking. Hearing tuki-tuki playing in the kitchen. Or seeing that one tío who insists it's not a party until he gets there. And you know what? He's probably right. Like the tamales your abuela spent all morning making. Or the arroz con pollo that's been passed down from one generation to the next. Que rico! The final touch. The final touch. Disfruta Coca-Cola. I wanted to ask you about the, uh, the ad. I'm not going to try to do the Mississippi accent where they start talking about the pick another protein, but some Yankees were wondering, is that like, is that the first white guy in that ad? Um, where he says, pick another Senator where he's going cheat. Is that real? Is that a real accent? Because to the Yankees looked at that and were like, this feels a little camp. No, let me, are you kidding? Like, like that, dude, that, that, that guy that, that was dialed down. She yeared. No, like, let me tell you, like there are about nine different Mississippi accents. There's a guy I know who, uh, one time was, uh, sitting around talking about the glory days of high school football. I shall not name him. And, uh, he looks down and shakes his head. He goes, man, I'd give anything. I'd give anything. I'd give anything. I'd give anything to go back. I'd trade my fucking kids. So like the accent is real. Now my mother's accent, I wish people could hear. Cause it is like this old sort of progressive Delta planter, well-educated it's softer. Yes. It's it. And so, and then what my mom talks about all the time is her mother's generation had an accent that is gone. And like my mom will hear it every now and then. And so, and then my mom will hear it every now and then. And so there are a lot of different Mississippi accents, but like, no, that was, look, I can drive your, anybody who is skeptical, come down here. I will drive you into non-country stores where you will hear 72 people say that. All right. I told Scott Columbus, folks, I'm, I need to do my penance for not quite having the faith that right. Thompson did, uh, in this race. And so I'm going to go to Jackson to sit down with him. So I need my advice from you. I'm going to go to Jackson to you is where, what kind of meal I should get in the drive from new Orleans to Jackson. Well, uh, or in Jackson or on a couple of things. So in Jackson, you want to go to the Mayflower cafe, which is the hat you're wearing right now, which is you want to go, you want to go to Elvie's, uh, which is, uh, Hunter Evans, the same chef, the Mayflowers, this beloved restaurant beloved by politicos. It was sort of going to go out of business and the best chef in Mississippi this guy named Hunter Evans bought it to save it. And it's the same. It's incredible. Uh, you want to go, uh, eat lunch at bullies. You want to go to the big apple in, they've got really good hot tamales. They got these little sandwiches called smokes that are like sort of loose meat sausage. They do hamburgers, they do pig ears, but I just can't fucking get on board with they're not fried. They're stew. I fucking don't like them. Uh, and you know, you want to go, uh, go to Howlin' Miles, which was Willie Morris, his favorite bar. Uh, and then the drive, you know, there's not a ton, honestly, it's not the best drive. No, man. I got to go to the Delta. No, you get through Hammond and it's best to just put the pedal to the metal and go on and get to Jackson. You know, when you're in the United States of Britney Spears, you should just get the fuck out. That's right. Um, all right. Well, there's a governor's race next year in Mississippi. You know, I don't know. Are you thinking about a career change or you got any, nominees? Cause I think all of a sudden people are wondering if we can do a wholesale change down there, make it a bliss Mississippi. Well, look, I certainly don't want to work hard enough to be in politics. So like, fuck no, hard, no, never. I read the barn. You worked hard. You were all over that state. You've been there. You were doing research. That wasn't, you know, I've read a lot of half-ass books from guests who tried to go on the show. That wasn't one. You can work. Uh, Ray Mabus was at my, uh, Grove tent on Saturday. Yeah. And I just gave him a hug and I said, none of this happens without you. Tell people who Ray Mabus is. I've had a chance to meet him. He's great. Ray Mabus was the, was a staffer for Governor William Winter, who was a corruption-busting auditor, who was the governor of Mississippi, and then was Bill Clinton's ambassador to Saudi Arabia, and then for eight years under Obama was the secretary of the Navy, and is one of the great Mississippians. And look, Scott was a great candidate. Cindy was a terrible candidate. So let's not look at this as a win of one ideology over another. I think it is the intersection of Mississippians being tired of un-American behavior, and we ran somebody really good, and they ran somebody really bad. And so I think it's a reminder that we are picking people. We're not picking parties. We are picking human beings who look us in the eye and make us think that they understand our hopes and dreams, and we are not picking sort of a platform. Or sort of a collection of punditry. So I think it depends on who runs and who the candidates are. And Tom will tell about that. But I think if Democrats run people like Scott, every election is in play. If Democrats run somebody like Cindy Hyde-Smith, no election is in play. Right. That's right, Thompson. All right. I want to give your mom a squeeze next time in the square, all right? Dude, she's so happy, and she's the best person I know, really. And has, you know, I got, I don't know how you felt, but I was in like a real cynical place, and just wondering if, well, you know, this is it. And like, we're never coming back. And the plurality of Americans, you know, support this, and like, people want this. And my mother never lost faith with the better angels of America. Not political ideas, but the idea that we are a tribe. And I think that's a very important thing. of people who believe in a more perfect union and are trying our best to be good, even when we fall short. And she never, ever, ever gave that belief up, even when it was dead for me. And I just am, I'm very proud of her. Me too. I love it. Hopefully your dad was smiling down on that go to hell LSU button on us. It was a big win. And I'm happy for you. And maybe I'll see you at the Mayflower Cafe. All right, brother. All right, man. Thanks so much. Whew, that podcast was a doozy, wasn't it? What a week it's been. Hopefully that own right brought you a little joy this weekend. Maybe some man tears. I appreciate them very much. We'll be back next week with Bill Crystal. We'll see y'all then have a great weekend. Peace. I want to make it to that creek before I cry. Oh, Mississippi, you're on my mind. Mississippi, you're on my mind. The Bulwark Daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and the board of directors, Bill Crystal. And with video editing by Dante DiCicco and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown. You know it's the holidays when somebody in the family starts cooking before the sun comes up. The pupusas are grilling in the pan, everybody's sneaking bites, and somehow there's always room for one more person at the table. And nothing goes better with that first holiday plate than a delicious Coca-Cola. That crisp, refreshing taste makes everything, that much better. Because the best holiday traditions aren't just about what we're eating, they're about who we're sharing those moments with. So check that shopping list twice. Stock up on Coca-Cola for all your family fiestas y disfruta Coca-Cola. Hi everyone, this is James and Anna. We are two thoughts of the hit UK podcast, No Such Thing As A Fish. Yep, No Such Thing As A Fish is where four of us get together every week to discuss our favorite, weirdest, funniest, maddest, most interesting facts we found that week. Yeah. Did you know that there is an island in Peru where the ultimate masculine gesture is to knit a bobble hat so well that you can carry water in it? That's why you're wearing 10 bobble hats today, is it James? Because I'm so masculine. Good on ya. All right, go to No Such Thing As A Fish wherever you get your podcasts.