Blame it on the inflammation

sometimes Sally Helm just wants to know what's wrong like why am I so tired why does life feel so hard and I have come to learn that if you address that question not to your sister or therapist but instead to tick-tock you can get a pleasantly simple answer inflammation is the root of all disease the root cause of most all chronic illnesses and aging itself heart disease diabetes Alzheimer's disease even some forms of cancer acne exoma hair loss hormonal issues PMS bloating irregular role movements are you worried because don't worry there are also tips first is supplements curcumin is extremely anti-inflammatory cinnamon very anti-inflammatory tip number two consider taking a break from food number three or fish okay and now I am confused because it sounds like I'm supposed to eat a lot of fish sprinkled with curcumin which I don't actually know what that is the main act of ingredient in turmeric is curcumin okay great which on its own is not easily absorbed by your body uh-oh enter black peppers specifically peppering okay check but then I'm also supposed to not eat food the ancient practice of intermittent fasting can also help lower inflammation in the body and I'm probably also supposed to buy something together they really create this potent extract in this bottle at this point I'm like as much as I wanted a nice simple explanation this just can't be real like inflammation cannot be the root of all diseases but then I came across a recent big piece by my colleague at Fox Health Reporter Dylan Scott and the science in this piece it was really surprising to me because it sounds like there is something to the idea that chronic inflammation may be behind many of the diseases of modern life but it also sounds like we've demonized inflammation without pausing to ask what it's good for today explained is ushering in the long weekend with a feature from our friends that unexplainable so get ready to get inflamed do you hear that that sound right it that means that 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these competitors providing charter flights for every WNBA team to elevate their travel experience and champion equity on every leg of their trip keep climbing with Delta Airlines the official airline of the WNBA Dylan Scott hello hi Sally all right Dylan I have seen many many different tiktoks about inflammation and how it's perhaps causing like every single health problem in our lives and I am curious like before you started looking into this did you see those is that what sent you on this journey absolutely like I love something that's sort of at the intersection of there is like a genuine scientific question underlying all of this like this is a serious topic that a lot of you know well credentialed researchers are spending their time looking into but at the same time it's sort of infiltrated the wellness influencer subculture that defines so much of how we talk about health these days and it has become a catch all culprit for a lot of different health conditions and you've also got people out there talking about you know diets or supplements or some kind of other interventions that you can take to try to reduce your quote unquote inflammation do you have any favorites or or least favorites CMOS has become a fixation for some people like people on tiktok it sounds so specific that I'm like okay but let's do it and maybe right well and people they talk about it with such confidence like that is the the weird like a lure of you know a lot of this wellness content on social media is because yeah it's like it's quick it's you know whatever a 90 second video it's digestible and they're like here here is the elixir the solution that will help to reduce your chronic inflammation I think any of us would be like well that those that sounds appealing I'd like to try that out but as you've already said Dylan like this is not just tiktok nonsense right like the thing about inflammation is that there is this real body of evidence suggesting that there's something important to think about here yeah so let's get into it I do feel like I need to ask a kind of basic question before we go much further here which is Dylan what is inflammation in essence inflammation is your immune system going into attack mode and either sending like immunity cells or other kinds of chemicals that your body can release to try to get rid of some outside invader that your body perceives as having infiltrated it and wants to get rid of to keep you healthy and so obviously if that outside invader is a cold virus or the influenza virus or some bacteria or something like that like that's what we call acute inflammation and that's you know that's something that we've known about for ages even like ancient doctors knew that like the body goes into some kind of response when you get sick and it's like okay great yes get it gone I don't want that in that I mean yeah for this kind of acute inflammation that we're talking about in response to a virus or a bacteria or a wound you know back in the ancient times that you might have gotten on the battlefield or something you know the red skin or puffy skin that can surround a wound and like it can be painful it can feel hot but at the same time that is like your body responding to a problem and trying to fix it and so I mean my sense is that like the word developed because like it has these literal associations with heat but I do think it it's created this problem unintentionally where it just sounds like something negative inflammation sounds like something that you want to get rid of and it's certainly like put me in a different mind space when I learn that like oh no like inflammation is you know it's your body repairing itself like that sounds positive but it's not maybe like where your mind naturally goes when you hear the word inflammation I mean and what you're saying like cold virus wound we've like felt and seen that like I can imagine my throat being swollen if I have a cold but the scary thing is that it sounds like there's this secret other inflammation that can happen where it's just like invisible microscopic in your whole body tell me about that is not the bad one so as one of the scientists I talked to for my story put it like every cell in your body can experience inflammation oh god a lot of that inflammation to your point is happening at the molecular level that we're never gonna be able to perceive with our own eyes but even there even with this invisible type of inflammation there's a good kind and there's a bad kind so once again it's it's more complicated than you might think there's first like what scientists call homeostatic inflammation and this is basically like your body doing routine maintenance like your cells you know we don't like to stop and think about this but like you know they're degrading slowly over time your body's stepping in all the time to make repairs and I'm even thinking like I guess if you like lift weights or work out or something like exactly well we want that I mean we need that type yes exactly when you work out when you lift weights your muscles tear they're injured basically and part of the reason that you get stronger is because then inflammation takes hold it repairs those muscles and it repairs them back stronger than they were before I mean that's the essence of strength training so that is exactly that that kind of inflammation at the invisible level that's desirable that's just a part of your body functioning as it's supposed to the third kind of inflammation and this other kind of invisible inflammation is what we're concerned about and I've come to think of it as this like chronic low grade inflammation that is above those routine maintenance levels that is not like sort of your body's normal homeostatic state of being and that kind of inflammation which can persist over a long period of time is the kind of inflammation that scientists and physicians are worried about that we're beginning to realize can be associated with a wide range of health problems All right. So I'm just recapping, inflammation happens when your body goes into like defense mode and your immune system sends blood containing like chemicals to help fight pathogens or heal a wound. And I can imagine why blood flowing to an area could lead to redness and swelling and heat and all those things. But it sounds like the concern is that being in constant defense mode like this can actually cause its own problems. And that is chronic inflammation. And okay, honestly Dylan, I can see why it is a concept that people are gravitating towards because it's just like something in the world is leaving us in this constant state of being a little bit agitated and like a little bit overheated and that just kind of feels true to me. But I want to dig in on whether it is true. Like what what is going on here? So tell me first like what causes chronic inflammation. So I do think that your idea of sort of our bodies being agitated is really appropriate because there is increasingly evidence that it is modernity itself are industrialized lifestyles that are at least contributing to this rise in chronic low grade inflammation that leads to chronic health problems over time. It was easily the most interesting thing that I learned in reporting out this story. I mean, if you think about human beings and our immune system, like those are things that develop over these really long timelines. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years. And when you think back to hundreds of thousands of years ago when modern humans were developing and their immune systems were evolving, we didn't live very long. And so like any kind of problem of like, you know, while your inflammation is starting to slowly increase over time, like how to pretty finite endpoint if you're not living past 40. It's not really going to become that much of a concern. And at the same time, we were living in a world where there are all kind of pathogens out there. There are viruses and bacteria as well as like, you know, physical risks that our body is confronting all of the time. And we didn't have any kind of medical interventions to try to address it. So basically like our immune systems evolved for pretty short life spans compared to how long we live today. And a really high infection risk compared to what we face today. An unfortunate byproduct of our longevity is that our bodies do experience more inflammation over time. I mean, and that's interesting just to pause you quickly, Dylan, because that is kind of another example of like, it sounds bad, but maybe it's good. Like in that explanation of chronic inflammation, it's like, well, it's a train-off for a longer life. Yeah, there's a lot of these say, I'll kind honestly, Sally, like all kinds of chronic health conditions are at least in part a byproduct of the fact that we live longer. And our bodies just have more time for these problems to develop. Okay, I'm hearing you that aging is a part of what's going on here. But can you go back to what you were saying at the beginning about the role that modernity might be playing here? So there does seem to be this role of industrialization, you know, pollution changes to our food production that is also playing a role in driving this chronic inflammation problem in addition to aging. We don't face nearly as many infection risks from like viruses or bacteria as we used to because we have modern sanitation and modern hygiene. But we are still being like exposed to all kinds of stuff like pollution and synthetic chemicals in our clothes. And our immune system's natural response to that is to kick in the inflammation and try to respond to it. But the thing is like, it's not necessarily that there's like a virus or bacteria or this sort of like short-term health problem that our inflammation is able to respond to and then resolve. Instead, it's just this, you know, this this miasma that we're living inside of that we're being exposed to all the time. And I do think it kind of not just agitates our immune system, but it causes our immune system to go a little bit haywire. And I mean, I think like thinking about the food supply in particular is maybe helpful here. Like to simplify a very complicated story. Like our food production has completely changed like within the last century. Like if we're talking about these long evolutionary timelines for our immune system to adjust and adapt, like we have we have sent a shock to the system just in like the last hundred years with the advent of, you know, mass agriculture and things like ultra-process foods. And when you think about the ways that this kind of chronic low-grade inflammation continues to persist, like every day you're eating some kind of, you know, maybe even despite our best efforts, you're eating some kind of new ultra-process food or you're eating more sugar than is naturally healthy or maybe more fat, especially if you live in the United States. And so your body goes into this response to try to do something about it, but like how can there's nothing to resolve the next day you're going to eat something again that's once again going to continue to perturb your immune system and start these inflammatory responses. And so yeah, it's like you can't escape it. Like we live inside of modernity. Like you step outside and there is like air pollution. You know, like look at our clothes and they have these new synthetic chemicals that do inevitably seep into our skin and into our bodies a little bit. And then especially with food and food processing, like there's just this constant exposure to things that your immune system doesn't recognize and doesn't know what to do with and thinks that it wants to get rid of, but it never can because that exposure is continual and constantly renewed. And so I think that's I hope that's sort of a a helpful way of thinking about how like your body is doing something that's natural in response to these unnatural exposures, but it's sort of an endless cycle and endless loop that continues to drive this inflammation over time and eventually does lead to tissue damage and some of the more serious health problems that we worry about. Yes, I mean, I have heard of absolutely one million things that seem to be caused or worsened by inflammation. Like the range is huge. So what do we actually know about whether inflammation is contributing to all of these diseases and health problems? Yeah, so there's I do think this is it's important to pause and say like this is where a lot of science is happening like right now. More from our friends at unexplainable on today's explained in a minute. Sponsored by DeepGrim, the leader in voice AI so you can use voices like mine. Are you a pet owner? Every six seconds, a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over a thousand dollars. Always an unwelcome surprise. That's where fetch comes in. Fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats. According to consumeradvocate.org, you get paid back up to 90% of vet bills at any vet in the US and Canada with claims paid back in as a little as two days. Go to fetch pet.com/save right now for your free quote. That's fetch pet.com/save. Support for the show comes from rippling. Imagine you just found your sales team is at risk of missing a quota. No need to panic. Just ask rippling. Yeah. Since it's built on your real time people and business data rippling AI can pull metrics from rippling and sales force into a meeting ready dashboard showing quota attainment. Hey, oh, headcount trajectory. Hey, oh, and monthly revenue to quota by region. Hey, oh, in seconds, you can see exactly what's behind your quota risk and fix it before it's missed. Question answered. Action taken. Crisis averted. Mike dropped. Ready to rule your business? Business rules. Head to rippling.ai/explain to get the only AI built to give you full visibility and take complex actions across your entire organization. That's r-i-p-p-l-i-n-g.ai/explain. Sign up for exclusive access today. All right, so Dylan Scott told me the science on this is evolving but some serious health conditions do seem to be at least associated with chronic inflammation. There's heart disease, cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's and dementia. Those are I think the most studied and the most commonly cited ones. With something like heart disease, there does seem to be a pretty clear relationship but this picture is still still coming into focus and oftentimes there is like a question of, is inflammation causing this crime? health problem or is inflammation a symptom of this chronic health problem that's being driven by other factors? You know mechanistically which direction are things moving? Is it time something that scientists are still in the midst of figuring out and can be murky to them even? So I want to be clear about that. But on a variety of things, there seems to be a pretty strong relationship. And I do think that's why for totally natural reasons, people hear that and they're like, okay, what can I do to prevent that and get rid of this thing that's going to cause me all of these problems? But it's interesting. I mean, we're back in the quagmire we've been in the whole time because you're also saying we still don't totally know when it's a symptom of disease and when it might be tipping into this chronic inflammation that causes disease. I mean, Dylan, how can I start that out? Like how can I know when it becomes chronic inflammation? Look, it's a great question and we know it's certain extremes, like if you have, you know, an enormous amount of some kind of inflammation related biomarker, like that probably means there's an underlying problem. But we're still in the process of establishing baselines for what's normal. There's something called immune monitoring programs at major health systems around the country. And basically what they are trying to do is establish those baselines collecting samples from all kinds of different people, collecting them from people over time, from people, you know, before they got sick, while they got sick, after they got sick, to try to just figure out at the most basic level, like what is normal and what is normal for different kinds of people? Like, you know, if you went into your primary care doctor right now and said like, what's my inflammation? I think they would just sort of like look at you like, huh? What are you talking about? And you probably wouldn't even necessarily think to ask that because all of this is so new in a lot of ways. But it does seem possible that we're working towards a future where like we figured out the right things to measure to gauge your chronic inflammation. We've figured out the right baselines against which to judge or whatever we're able to measure. And it could be that like in the future, you get like an inflammation score that's similar to like your blood pressure reading or your cholesterol level or your blood sugar or something like that. Like the folks who are working on those programs today, like that's the future they're envisioning and trying to, you know, work towards, but the work is still in progress. Like we aren't there yet. Right now, a lot of, you know, with a lot of these and you'll see them hawk sometimes in these on these social media feeds of like inflammation tests or something like that. Like, yes, we have gotten to the point now where if, you know, certain kind of proteins are associated with inflammation, but being able to interpret that information and saying like whether this is good, whether this is bad and what we do about it, like that's much murkier as the science stands today, but trying to sharpen our understanding is the work that a lot of inflammation scientists are doing right now. Wow, that's so interesting. So it sounds like we're kind of in like number soup world where it's like we can measure some stuff like we can know what the proteins are and whether they're elevated, but we don't necessarily know what that means. No, I do think like one of the, one of the things that a scientist said to me was like I can see a future where like measuring your inflammation is a way to get ahead of health problems that are sort of asymptomatic at least for a long time, you know, before they get really serious. And so that to your point sounds super appealing to me. If it's like we can now have this indirect measure of things that are going wrong in your body before you ever sort of feel or notice them, you know, naturally going about your day, like that seems like the ideal for early intervention, which we know usually leads to better outcomes. But we're still in the process of like refining our understanding to be able to do that. So the hope is that this will become something almost like cholesterol or something where you can go in, you can measure it, you can get a number, and then you can take some like sane and reasonable steps to address that number. And maybe that helps you prevent future health problems. Yes. That sounds great. And I should say, we do know things now that can help to improve your inflammation. It's just like the most basic health advice in the world, like what can I actually do? Do I need to wrap a tumor ex-ouplament in CMOS and then intermittently fast while I only eat that? Like what should I be doing here? Look, it's the old standby sally of eating a healthy diet and especially eating a diet of whole foods, vegetables, fruits, things like that, exercise, stress, things like that, you know, that that can perturb your immune system. You know, it's funny, Dylan, that makes me think, do you think it's possible that we're causing more inflammation by stressing about inflammation? It would make some sense. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but yeah, I mean, it's this funny thing where it's like, I think that brings us back to the top of our conversation where it's like there are, you know, there are these tests, there are these measures that you can take to try to assess the state of your inflammation. And there's a lot of unscrupulous people who are willing to sell those to you and who are presenting more confidence about what you can understand from those measures, then like actual scientists who work on this would say is appropriate. And so I do think just the whole universe of inflammation testing of interventions or tonics like CMOS, like that's that's I think what arises in this gap between we know there's something going on here and we're understanding it more by the day and like people wanting like an answer right now. And I think what the scientists worry about is like people either trying out these approaches that are unproven and may just be pointless and not lead to anything or obviously God forbid, like you have some kind of other health problems arise from whatever you're trying to do to address your inflammation. Like this is in a way, I think one of the more underappreciated stories about modern medicine in general, which is like our ability to detect things often outpaces our ability to interpret them. And that's true, not just for inflammation, but for all kinds of things because we have developed these amazing technologies that can detect things at the cellular or subcellular level. But you know, you have to detect things before you can then kind of create a working understanding of what's going on with them. And that often obviously takes a lot of time and failure and refinement. And so we're in the middle, we're in the middle of that story right now where it's like people are kind of rushing in to provide answers that are beyond what science has actually learned and figured out yet. That was Dylan Scott from Vox and Sally Helm with unexplainable. You can find more unexplainable on your preferred podcast application, but also on Netflix. No big deal. Their episode was produced by Sally, edited by Lisa Soep with help from Joanna Salataraf, mixing in sound design from Christian Ayala, fact checking from Melissa Hirsch. I'm Sean Ramas from and this one's today explained. Support for the show comes from Harvey AI. The future of law is agentic, not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from secure data sources, run sub agents in parallel, and draft the work product ready for your review. 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