Billy Barker repost

[Music] Hello and welcome to Casterton Connections. An initiative of Hands Up Casterton where a group of enthusiastic locals have come together to capture, preserve and share stories of people who have a connection to Casterton. Today on Casterton Connections, I am really excited to welcome someone of many talents, singer, songwriter, and carpenter to name just a few. Billy Barker's family consists of the Murphies and the O'Connell's, which sounds like an Irish TV drama series. Billy grew up on the farm at Pagala with his parents, K&N, and two older sisters. Welcome, Billy. Tell us about those early years at Pagala. Hi, Lys. Thanks for having me. Wow. I mean, idyllic. It's probably the easiest way to describe it if I reflect upon it. Yeah, just a lot of time out in open spaces amongst the big river reggums and riding motorbikes and playing with kelpies and helping dad on the farm. I guess it was, yeah, it was a simple, it was a very simple time, you know. Not only because of my individual situation but probably times, it was just a little simpler than as well. Yeah, I mostly reflect fondly on the time in Pagala. I was there until I was 15, I think. Okay, so you did your schooling in Casterton? Yeah, so I went to Sacred Heart Primary School there and then followed suit with my sisters. So we all, as soon as we got to secondary age, we joined the cohort of Casterton Kids who caught albigatheries bus to Hamilton. So, yeah, we all went to Monovay College. My sisters boarded for VCE to cut out some bus time, but by the time I got to VCE, my parents had sold the farm in Pagala and we moved to just out of Hamilton. What sort of student were you? I think I've found, I think I've found school difficult, not academically, but maybe socially. And then that probably affected, probably for a while, thought that I struggled academically. But so, yeah, school was, yeah, I wouldn't say school was easy in primary or secondary, but by VCE, I think I'd realized, as I'd started thinking about what was going to be next for me, as a young adult, I think I'd realized the importance of finishing strongly. So I sort of managed by VCE to really, yeah, become far more studious and get, you know, like a decent VCE result so that I would have options and then, you know, that saw me get into a university course in Melbourne. But, yeah, I do remember getting a lot of school reports that said things like, Billy likes to disrupt for class, which dad didn't like reading that report and I didn't like dad reading that report. But no, I think, yeah, I was probably a pretty good student. Yeah, yeah. So what about three days in casting, growing up as a teenager, or even a young kid, what was your outlets for socially? Yeah, so I think, I guess being a farm kid, like living in Begalla, you know, 15 minutes from town, probably had a different experience to a town kid, because you obviously are reliant on your parents to take you into social things and bring you home. And so there probably was a lot of, there was a lot of social things that probably felt like I missed out on because of where I was located. But I definitely don't reflect negatively on that all the time because I think I'm really grateful for that. Yeah, some parts of me are grateful for that isolation at that age because it can, you know, I've read a lot about how that spurs on creativity and things because you end up kind of creating your own fun and adventures and feeling that sort of void at that age. But yeah, look, when you cast it in there was my parents like, I guess most supportive parents, they put me into all the different sports at the appropriate age. So I could have a go at tennis, have a go at basketball, football. And I think it became pretty apparent to them and me early on that sport wasn't my thing at all. It didn't like it. I wasn't good at it. And so that obviously ruled out quite a few things that I was able to be involved in and then social within, because obviously a town like Castan, particularly in that era, was very sort of, you know, that was orientated around the football, netball club and things like that. So I think once I started getting into my early teens, you know, and I was at that age where I was thinking more about my own social life and what I wanted to do and things. There definitely was moments where it felt like I didn't have enough outlets or ways to connect socially outside of school and things, which is that's when I think the music thing started around maybe 12 or something. And that was, I think, yeah, Robin Rhodes, who a lot of people would know, her music school and also her son, William, who was a drummer. The, yeah, Robin and Will were probably quite pivotal in that moment when I decided to sort of make music the outlet, you know. So, who do you think was your influences with music early on like, was there music within your family? Yeah, great question. So, no music within my family or extended family at all. You know, I think dad had a Neil Diamond CD kicking around in the U of my mother might have had a John Farnham CD and a Savage Garden CD. So, you know, I'm sure that played some kind of role. But, I mean, before I move on to who the quite pivotal influences were, it's probably important to note that just now reflecting on it, the actual pivotal moment was when I was going through the, we had an old dairy shed on the farm at Begalla. And I must have been 11 or 12 when I was going through the shed one day and I found this old nylon string guitar with no strings on it. No one around me played music at that point. I wasn't really, I think there was recorder classes at Sacred Heart, but no one I knew was really having music lessons or, you know, I didn't have any influences. And so, I found this nylon string guitar and I took it up to the house and I said, "Dad, where's, like, who's this? Where'd this come from?" And it turned out that he'd won a game of poker when he was shearing up north or something and that was the prize. And he just thought, "I don't want to ride on." And he brought it home and kept it in the shed. And so, I, I think that's probably when I, like, got onto Robin Rhodes and said, "I need to string this thing up." And then I think it was probably 12 months where I had this guitar and I was playing it every day. But I hadn't had any lessons and I was, like, 12 years old. And I think Mum's still probably got PTSD from that era because you can imagine a 12-year-old that's playing this thing every day just because he wants to, but has no training in it. You can only imagine what it sounded like. But I think, yeah, it happened quite quickly that I became obsessed with it. And then we were very, very lucky. The next really pivotal moment for the music thing for me was when Simon Barker and his partner, Emily, they moved from Melbourne to Begalla, and built a beautiful home overlooking the Danelle River. And he'd played drums in some really great bands in the Melbourne music scene. And just had a huge record collection and was just really knowledgeable about music. And Mum and Dad were always really good at welcoming new people to the area. So they sort of had a fair bit to do with Simon and then when Dad found out his history with music, I think Dad was sort of giving him a box of beers to come around every week or to sort of give me an informal lesson. And so that was definitely the moment where, like, having this guy from Melbourne sitting in the house at Begalla, teaching me how to actually use this guitar I'd found, but also, like, burning me mixed CDs of things he thought I'd like, and telling me stories about him touring or playing gigs in the city. And I just hadn't been exposed to that, you know, because I guess just geographically, I was in Begalla, like I wasn't going to be exposed to that. And so that really lit the fire. And then I think I went to Robin for some more formal lessons. And I think I got to the point, when I was maybe 14, where Robin said to me one day, she said, "Billy, I really don't like saying this, "but I think that you're better than me now." But there's nothing else I can teach you. I don't know if she was just being kind, but so yeah. And then I think that was around the time that we probably, I was going to high school in Hamilton by then. So I started sort of utilising some music lessons over there as well. Okay, so once you left school, do you. because you became a carpenter. Did you immediately go into the trade? No, not at all. So, I wanted to go to university and so I was pretty much booked in to go and start a commerce degree in Melbourne straight after high school and I got the VC result that I needed. But I'd been travelling to Warnable for some quite advanced guitar lessons because I was doing VCA music and they recommended that you have quite an advanced teacher to keep up with the repertoire for that. And I got to the end of the year, I was getting ready to move to Melbourne when I finished VCA and I ran into a guy at this music studio in Warnable who was, he was about to move to Melbourne and he was looking for someone to hand his guitar student clientele. He had 60 primary school aged kids that he was teaching in the Warnable area and he said to me, would you be interested in doing a gap year? Because that's what he'd just done. And so I actually decided to move to Warnable when I was 18. I did a gap year teaching music down here around the primary schools and then went on to Melbourne to university. But yeah, in retrospect it was probably quite a good stepping stone to move from how I wanted to Warnable out of home and have that year working and earning some money before going off to Melbourne starting uni. Not quite as big a step perhaps. Exactly. I gave you some life skills to cut. Exactly. So you went to uni in Melbourne and I'm presuming let it pretty much a uni life. Yeah, look, I think that by the, what ended up happening I think was that uni basically just served as the gateway into the Melbourne music scene. So it was nearly just became the thing that got me to Melbourne. I had somewhere to live on the uni accommodation. You make some instant friends because you're at uni. It's a very easy way into a city as opposed to if I'd just moved there and looked for a job or something. And so within you know a couple of months I'd found the university music group and then you know there's people asking me to play at the uni bowls and and then that just snowballs really quickly and all the sudden you've got a crowd or you know you've got opportunities to play gigs. And so by the time I was in probably second or third year uni I'd really checked out of uni because I was you know stars in my eyes that I was starting to play in some of these venues that I'd heard about or I was starting to meet people who had heard on the radio and I was you know I was young and I was thought I was going to be the next guitar hero or something. And so I really sort of let I finished uni but I really wasn't focusing on that anymore. I was pretty much just in Melbourne to sort of experience the Melbourne music scene which at that time and still but definitely at that time was very healthy it was like there was a lot of opportunities. So what year was that? So that would have been in I moved to Melbourne in 2009. Okay. So there'd be some interesting musicians that you played with or you know you feel free to name drop if you like. Yeah so I think like and this is funny lies because you were talking about how you've worked at the chemist and I don't know how the time if the timeline lines up but one of my favourite stories which I think for me sort of paints that picture of you know from Begalla to wherever I've ended up was I think I'd been in Melbourne for five years and we were playing my band at the time we're playing a show at the Espion St. Kilda and during soundcheck my bass player came over to my side of the stage and he said oh he looked and I looked out to the bar and he's Chris Cheney from the living end just having a beer like he's out out gig and we're about to start so I'm obviously to decide myself because when I was growing up I had posters of him on the wall and here I am about to sing in front of him and he came up to me after the show and said he wanted to say like great great gig you know and I was just I've completely fanboyed him and I said Chris you don't understand I grew up in this place called Begalla in the middle of nowhere and this town casted him as my closest town and the only place he could buy CDs when I was a kid was at the chemist and the first CD I bought with 10 bucks at mom gave me at the chemist was the self-toddled living and CD and he just put his arm around me and he said boy calm down mate I just came up to say you played a good gig and I'm back through your darkness yeah so go on get on with your life 3 10 I don't exist this world is one and I'm for me in the fun at the undertone I just be lost I have to find I can flow back to you back to what fall back in high the most will you craze then from the stairway I'm back through your darkness yeah there's nothing inside of you or in your dreams you so you have that happen to you now we have you know groupies other than myself I mean there is it there's like a 16 year old kid that works at the cafe in Port Ferry who I used to teach guitar when he was younger and then he saw that I played folky this year so now he thinks I'm cool that's probably as good as it gets for me hey we might move on to that because I think this is just an amazing story I love it perhaps you can tell us about how you ended up playing at the shoes Port Ferry folk festival hmm so yeah obviously the the Port Ferry folk festival is an international folk festival which is pretty cool to have just down the road from us here and over the years I'd been a part of the festival in a couple like when I was living in Melbourne as part of a couple of friends bands like playing different instruments for them but I'd never actually applied to play my own music at the folky and so feet for this year's festival I did apply and got in and then around that time I was also working with these this group of team areas nationals that are on working visas here in Mornable for the the meet works and I've been yeah so how did that come about that you were well that's like a pre-focus story so it's like sort of circling back yeah okay um when I first moved so I sort of moved out here after COVID because sort of Melbourne came to a bit of a stop then and then the music scene wasn't really happening for a while so I moved out here and obviously I was used to being around such a vibrant arts community and such a multi-cultural community and I think I was starting to realise that my cup wasn't getting as filled in in those areas like there's a lot of beautiful musicians around here but I was thinking of other ways to connect with people and I knew that there was a lot of international workers at the midfields meet works here because they yeah such a big employer in the town and so I yeah ended up getting in touch and getting a flyer up in the lunchrooms there and yeah fast forward six months and I sort of was working with this group of 10 or 15 team all-estate guys and girls a lot of them really accomplish musicians and all great singers obviously just because of their culture and so yeah when I was invited to play my own stuff at the folk festival this year I managed to convince the festival director to put a slot in the program for the guys to do their their own cultural performance and so I sort of ended up helping them as well with that and we've actually just gotten used that we've been invited back to perform the the team all show this year next year at the folk festival, which is fantastic. Yeah, and so that'll be on big stages and we'll be able to sort of curate the show even further. That's fabulous. One of the things about that story that I really loved anyway was the fact that the language barrier was huge, that you didn't, you guys, you know, you obviously didn't speak team Aries and they didn't speak English, but music jumped that barrier. Absolutely. Like most musicians would probably say this as well, is that that's kind of been a theme across my life. Like a lot of people get into music because, well often because there's some kind of block to connection otherwise. So, you know, growing up in a town where I couldn't connect to the sport culture, you end, you can feel alienated, you can feel outcast and so music becomes this tool to connect with people and so yeah, through my life sometimes that's been people that don't speak the same languages I, you know, or people that come from totally different backgrounds or different political beliefs and things but yeah, once you've all got an instrument in your hand, you can bring it together. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And so, perhaps just as a bit of advice to kids that growing up in some country towns, it's similar to your situation where there's a big sports culture. What would be your advice to those sort of kids today if they have got an artistic bet in any way? Well, I think the thing I do wonder is, particularly in regards to Castan because I don't live there anymore, is whether that has changed much over the decade since I was growing up in that environment but I mean even witnessing Warner War I live now, it's very heavily fully focused and sport-based and so I think my big learning has been like as a kid in that situation you really do have to back yourself like there has to be a you're not going to get that peer support initially because you might decide or realize that what you're into or the sort of person you want to be there isn't a lot of other people that are going to support that or want to do that or understand that but the thing to remember is that it's kind of like that you know build it and they come saying or whatever it's not long like you might get some initial pushback or tension or you know you might even be ridiculed but very quickly people start to people naturally respect you for following your own path even if it doesn't seem like it at first so I think the easiest way to sort of paint that picture is there was probably an 18-month period for me in Castan and Hamilton where one minute I was getting like bullied for wearing tight jeans and women's shirts and then fast forward two years those same people were asking me if they could get into my show at the pub because they knew everyone else was going to watch me and it was cool because now they knew someone that was playing a guitar at the pub yeah do you know what I mean yeah and so I think no matter what field you're into if you feel like you're outside the you know you don't have 50 other people in your town doing the same thing or that understand it or support it I think you just have to kind of put your head down and ignore that initially and follow your gut I was just very lucky to have the family and the parents that I do because even though saying that like music wasn't a thing for my mum or mum and dad they're both incredibly progressive people in that regard and always big on individuality and just you know if it wasn't guitar that I took a shining to and it was if I wanted to be a ballet dancer or something I'm sure I would have received the same support from them and I and I think you know they had a big influence on me probably subconsciously growing up because dad was always you know he always liked to sort of push the envelope and try and find new angles on things or different ways of doing things and I think that naturally just you know seep through to you so my vice definitely would be yeah if you feel like you're not fitting in or you feel like you're different just go even harder in that direction I think because very quickly the tables turn around and and people will see what you're doing and yeah respect you for absolutely so still on the music scene who are your biggest influences musically like as in us you enjoy yeah I always find this question really difficult because I guess by this point of being around so much music you have I have such an eclectic absorption of music but for a long time it was I it was for a long time it was nearly strictly Stevie Rae Vaughan so he's I think if you don't know him some people sort of refer to him as the white Jimmy Hendrix incredibly soulful guitar player and so I think the thing that I still have because I sort of stopped chasing the guitar hero dream when I sort of got to Melbourne and realized that there was 14-year-old kids that could already play faster than me and I was like okay maybe I'm better off writing songs you know because you can just put some individuality into it but Stevie Rae Vaughan this blues guitarist that I was obsessed with for a long time I think he taught me how to have a motion and dynamic and feel in your music even if it's not you know blues guitar solos you can put that into anything you're doing so yeah most of music I listen to is it's across a lot of different genres but the common thread is usually quite like emotive music or an authentic music you know like I don't really connect with anything that sort of lacks a depth yeah having listen to to your music and I'm no music expert but I would describe your music is very soulful quite deep and I've noticed some of your stuff you know maybe feel sad other stuff uplifted me you know it was quite interesting what you know some of your songs what is your some of the songs that you are really proud of that you've written that's another difficult question there is a there is a song that that I think is the song of mine that's connected most with people so far is a song called Magic Coat which I actually recorded as a duet with a South African singer and that song had I'd had the song sitting there for maybe like five years and I didn't think it was any good and then when I met her and was playing some shows with her I showed her that that song in a rehearsal room and she liked it and told me that I 100% should be playing that song and recording that song and so if she hadn't if I probably would have never released it but yeah I'm pretty proud of that song and I think that was a good moment to be to learn to back yourself a bit more because it's often the things that you don't think are that good at all that other people will actually connect with and it's usually the ones that you think are going to be the one that makes you a million bucks that no one likes because I mean I don't mind if you draw out of the lines because I mean I don't mind using it away time to time and I was young I thought this is how it's gonna be gotta show the blood on the floor if this is the picture you want to draw I won't ask too much from you just don't use back as I'm better than that I never thought that I'd become a painting I'll never have to worry about hanging in a gallery but I was young I thought this is how it's gonna be I'll be the innocent oblivious to everyone I just want to be invisible from now on Cover me in your magic ♪ I don't wanna be known ♪ ♪ I just wanna be invisible from now on ♪ ♪ Cover me in your magical ♪ ♪ I don't wanna be known ♪ ♪ Cover me in, I don't mind ♪ ♪ If you draw out of the land ♪ ♪ Cover me in, I don't mind ♪ ♪ Use a little ray from time to time ♪ ♪ Gotta be careful with your strokes ♪ ♪ I look best in chaos ♪ ♪ Room is running, you're brushing my fingers ♪ ♪ Don't use black 'cause I'm better than that ♪ ♪ You're oblivious to everyone ♪ ♪ I just wanna be invisible from now on ♪ ♪ Cover me in your magical ♪ ♪ I don't wanna be known ♪ So is there any songs that are actually connected to perhaps the cast in an area? There was a couple of songs I think. Ooh, I wonder if he's singing about the Glennon River. It was fun and noisy. Yeah, I think I probably didn't start really riding lyrics until I had moved to Melbourne. I was definitely just playing guitar up until then and singing other people's songs. But so I think because I wasn't in that setting anymore when I'd started penning lyrics, but there definitely be lines amongst songs that would be a throwback to that era. But more generally, not a specific event or people or places, but more just reflections on that time in my life was at that age and things that I think I might have gone through or how they've affected me or whatever. So the other part of your life which we touched on very briefly, the carbon tree stuff, it's such a, I can't think of the word, such a contrast to what you're doing with music. Yeah, it's interesting that people, particularly in this area, a lot of people often say that. But the interesting thing is is that in the carpentry scene that I was in when I left Melbourne, so many of those carpenters were musicians. Wow. And I think because there can be stereotypes around tradies where we think our case playing 40 on the weekend, loves a beer, goes camping, it's got a big yut. Listen to Jimmy Barrett. This is Jimmy Barrett as a whatever. He loves these tools and whatever. But when you actually sort of break it down, like I was working for architectural carpenters or architectural builders in Melbourne doing quite fine carpentry and building beautiful houses and the people that that sort of attracts, it's creatives really. So the stuff that I try and do, like I in an ideal world, it kind of scratches the same creative hitch as sitting in my studio riding a song. Like it's creating something from nothing, you know? Sure, this day is when I'm like, "Will Barrett in concrete in the rain?" And I'm like, "How did I end up here?" "I'm meant to be like a sensitive singer-songwriter." And now I'm like, "You're the boys on site, you know?" Hurry up. So sometimes I agree with you. And I'm like, "It's a quite a funny juxtaposition." But I do remember reading a book once when I first finished uni and I was in this period of thinking, like, "Do I want to try and make music my full-time living?" And, you know, I've since read this sort of repeated by a lot of artists is that by making music, if I needed to make my living off of my art, it would really change my relationship to my art. So I was grateful that I found a job as a carpenter that I enjoy enough, because then that's my security. So then at night, if I'm sitting at my piano writing a song, I feel fully relaxed. And I feel like I can just fully lean into that experience for the catharsis that it is, or for the art output or whatever. Whereas I have some friends that have tried and are still trying to make it their living, and they really, you know, firstly, they have to sort of blur the boundaries a bit around what they actually would usually want to do with their art just in terms to make money. And also that they get quite stressed, you know, like, "I wouldn't want to connect those two." So yeah, I'm grateful that I enjoy the carpentry thing as my means of making an income. Okay, Billy, we might touch a little bit more on some of the songs that you've written, and some of the songs that I really enjoyed listening to as well. Firstly, not so merry-go-round. I really enjoyed, back to me, was a Lena Cohen topic experience for me, but to you, what did it mean to you? Yeah, I think, yeah, it's funny you bring that song up because that's sort of in an older set of songs that I don't perform live anymore, and I probably would forget how to play it. But I think that song, looking back, was probably. That was at a time when I first probably started including my own mental health stuff into my lyrics. So there was probably a maturing of my song writing around that time or something. So that song, I think, is probably sort of based around the ups and downs of your mental health, really, in a pretty general way. Yeah. Yeah. Another one that resonated with me was the Black Umbrellas song. I'm sorry, I can't remember the title of it, that just reminded me of being at the cemetery, encased it on the hill. And I could just visualize those Black Umbrellas. Yeah, so I wrote that song. I think I'd just gotten home from a friend's funeral. Yeah, so this is probably like four or five years ago now, but there was a two-year period where our friendship group we lost two friends under 30 within two years, quite suddenly, they weren't sick. And so I came home and that song was kind of what fell out. Sometimes writing a song will be really considered and thought out and sort of nearly planned, but then sometimes a song is like you're walking the door, sit at your piano, pick up a guitar, and it just comes out of you. Like that does happen and artists will talk about that. And so that was definitely one of them with I think the main sentiment just basically been, I wasn't even 30 yet and I've already lost two peers. And this would be quite common for people to have lost someone at some stage. And yeah, that moment where it makes you stop and think about, well, should I be adjusting the way that I'm living or perceiving life because it's so easy, often coming home from a funeral or from that experience on the hill with the Black Umbrellas, we're all thinking about our own mortality. Our own mortality exactly, but it doesn't take long for you to slip straight back into, you know what I mean? Well, you were doing six hours later, you can be super stressed about this tiny little thing at work that doesn't actually matter. And so I think yeah, that song was like a kind of just like a little reminder moment to take yourself back into that headspace every now and then. Yeah. The other one that I really liked too was Bobby's song. I just love that. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so that actually, I think that after COVID, because none of us had been in recording studios or anything for a while and I hadn't released much music, I decided to just, I think I released an album of just 10 or 12 tracks that were sort of sitting on different hard drives and on my computer from different demos and recording sessions. So none of them were really fully finished or anything and they were sort of varying levels of being okay. But yeah, Bobby was one of them. I was living in Japan for a few months and there was, it was all like young snowboarders and travelers living at this sort of hostel. But there was this guy in his mid 60s living with us and he just sort of told us he was on a holiday. And he used to talk a lot about his wife and he would talk about her as if she was still alive and talk about why she didn't come on the holiday with him and that he'd see her when he got back and so we. He lived with this guy for like three months, and spent a lot of time with him. He was like the dad of the group, you know, he was driving his home from the pub and things, and then found out towards the end of the trip that his wife had actually passed away. And I just thought, it was quite moving. It was like, wow, you know, everyone's got very different ways of processing things, and you don't know what else is at play for people, but I was like, yeah, wow, that, I definitely have to put that in a song. ♪ Barbys that I've sung, you used to dance too ♪ ♪ As you counted the steps in your head ♪ ♪ A much younger man than I am ♪ ♪ You wanted nothing but love ♪ ♪ Thought you found it ♪ ♪ But you were never enough for her ♪ ♪ It was never enough for her ♪ ♪ Barbys that I've sung, that you used to dance too ♪ ♪ As you counted the girl of your turn ♪ ♪ Yes, I heard she was the girl of your turn ♪ ♪ You speak of working two jobs ♪ ♪ To keep her and the kids what they wanted ♪ ♪ Barbys that I've sung, you used to dance too ♪ ♪ You're matching with one more wall ♪ ♪ You can't get her out of your head ♪ ♪ Barbys that I've sung, you used to dance too ♪ ♪ Sitting in the dark and full ♪ ♪ Just replaying your favorite tune ♪ ♪ Barbys that I've sung, you used to dance too ♪ ♪ Barbys that I've sung, that you used to dance too ♪ And I felt safe enough that he'd never come across the song. Yeah, you know, I hate that his personal situation was great songwriting fodder. But yeah, I think I'm far enough removed from him and I'm not famous enough that it's not an issue. And I think you're the only person that's ever listened to that song lower, so thank you. I felt that there was just a lot of love in that song, you know, it was just a sort of. Well, I think, you know, this is what we try and do as songs is. There'll be the real life thing that happens or that influences the song. And then the artistic license comes in as to what you're gonna do with that and where you're gonna take it. So that sort of sad story and this guy that I met in Japan was obviously the catalyst for the song. Then as I'm fleshing that out, I can take that in the direction of like, well, how beautiful is that that he's like, loved this woman, his whole life so much that he's kind of completely in denial that he's not still with her? I can sort of put a positive, you know, love song spin on this. And you know, it's all, you know, songwriting is hate when, you know, romantic partners or family or friends sort of quiz you too hard on song lyrics because you worry that people don't understand the amount of artistic license that you take. You know, people can take things quite literally and then try and sort of apply them to what they know of your life. But yeah, definitely for me and I would say in most singer songwriter contexts, it sort of starts with like, I would say there's like 20% of like fact in there. And then from then you're just, then it becomes art, you know, you sort of take that initial real life feeling and expand upon it. But that varies from song to song. Some songs are like completely made up and some are literally like I'm just talking to my therapist, you know. But I just won't tell you which one's which. So that protects my privacy. So what comes first for you mostly, the lyrics or the music? Yeah, so that's a super common question and everyone's different. But I fall in this, it's like a third category of people. I'm definitely not the only one. But it happens simultaneously. So I've tried over the years to carry a songwriting journal around and I'm like, oh, I'm going to be like, "I'm Dylan and Lanarkone with my leather-bound journal and I'm going to sit on the train and write all my brooding thoughts into beautiful poetry." And then I'll take them home and put them over a core progression and make millions of dollars. But the only way I've ever been able to write songs is either sitting at the piano or sitting with a guitar and just doing both at once. So it sounds kind of weird but essentially, I'll just start playing something first because you can't sing over nothing. So I'll just go to a chord or I'll try a new chord or sit down and play the same old chord always play. And then just start singing and it might be absolute nonsense but it's really fascinating. A lot of art comes, a lot of art comes from your subconscious and it's about tapping into that. So you can kind of get into this state where you just sit down. You don't really have a plan to write a song. You just start strumming a chord or fiddling on the piano. And then you kind of just open your mouth and words will come out. And then it nearly starts you nearly listen back and go, "Oh, I'm singing about this thing that happened two months ago that I hadn't even really thought I was thinking about." So yeah, it's kind of like a subconscious, sort of stream of consciousness kind of approach, I guess. Which I know that, you know, a lot of writers practice like your morning pages routines, which is a concept where when you first wake up in the morning before you've had a coffee or interacted with the world, you just open a blank page and just start writing. Whatever comes to you, you know, and it could be absolute nonsense or it could be really profound. Just trying to do the same thing, like tap into that subconscious because often as an artist or people in any field, often you're just actually trying to get out of your own way because you can sort of overcomplicate it for yourself or you can try too hard where if you just kind of get into more of a relaxed state and just be more playful with it, I remember John Cleese from Faulty Towers saying in an interview that he used to have a special hat that he would put on when he was going to write a screenplay or some jokes or whatever he was working on he'd go into his room or his studio and he'd had this hat that he would put on and that's how he would signal to himself that he needed to go into that play state where he was just unobstructed, just full creativity whatever comes out, you know what I mean? Because as an artist, you need to be able to alternate between that state with a much more sort of prefrontal cortex or whatever people might call the state where your far more logical and far more your planning things you being critical of things I need to shift into that state after I've started writing a song if I've birthed a new idea one night and I'm like, that's worth expanding on then I need to go back into oh, where should I put the chorus or is that verse lyric actually any good or where should the drums come in on this song? They're more logical decisions but when you're first creating the art you're ideally trying to be in this more playful creative state where nothing matters, anything goes whatever comes out and then you sort of pull it together and structure exactly and so John Cleese that's what I was referencing he used to take this hat on and off so that he could sort of alternate in between those two states when he was creating I think that became quite a long-winded answer for just the guitar or the words come first I should have just said both at the same time next question So, um, guitar is your main instrument so, um, do you play any other instruments? Yeah, so guitar's the only one I've ever had lessons on and definitely my main instrument and probably still is um, but yeah sort of got into little bit of drumming and um I think half of my life set now is played on piano um, get definitely getting better nearly at the point where I would introduce myself to someone as someone who also plays piano Okay I think I'm nearly good enough to say that now um, whereas previously I've just been saying I'll make a guitarist that owns a piano That's the first. Oh sorry. So I'm sorry. As far as life sets go, are you doing mini-life gigs now? - Yeah, so sort of, usually you have something in Melbourne or another city or town, you know, usually something once a month that I'm playing at. I did a bunch of shows in Western Australia a month ago. Yeah, so still active and sometimes full band shows. Like I'll put together a full band to do a bigger sort of festival show or whatever. Like we did at Port Fairy, but a lot of solo shows. And I think the thing I love about the genre of music I'm in, the singer songwriter, folk thing, is that I can do those shows with just me in a guitar. So it means I can afford to, you know, get on a plane. It's like logistically, you can tour that kind of thing without the backing of a record label or whatever, where I have friends where their sort of art form doesn't really come across properly unless they've got all six members. Well, you know, for them to do the same tour of WA that I did would cost them thousands and they'd be wanting to sell some tickets, you know. - So what do you enjoy the most, really? Do you like the actual producing of the music or performing live? - It's a great question. It's definitely been the performing live thing and particularly early on, I think that's the thing that I was chasing and connected. And I think it comes back to what we talked about earlier with that craving that connection. And then I think it's sort of falling in love with the craft of songwriting and the craft of producing songs and things. That's come later. So now I value that as much as the live performance, which I think can be quite a common trajectory. There's like a lot of great artists, I know who sort of don't even like playing gigs anymore, like they just want to be locked in their dark studio doing there. And I think it's because when you're young, you think I want to be the guy on stage and then you sort of work through all that and get rid of here you go. And you start to realise the things that you actually enjoy. - Yeah. - But no, I still really love playing live, I really love playing with other people, but yeah, love the craft of songwriting as well. I'm definitely not a geek, like I have friends that are total nerds and I'm envious of them a lot of the time. They can sit in front of their computer in their home studio for like 12 hours straight, inventing new ways to make a guitar recording sounds different and they use words that I don't even know what they mean. And there's buttons on their computer that I don't have. But I'm not really interested in that. I think I'm a bit more basic. - And maybe a little bit more of an old soul. - I think I can say that. - Yeah, no, I think so. Yeah, I think a bit of a purist or a further sort of authentic stuff. - Have you come across any, you know, local new talent in the area that perhaps we should be keeping an eye out for? - Absolutely. It's interesting to see like say this area more vulnerable is when I did my gap here here in 2008. There was an original live music venue here doing original live music four nights a week. And so you had bands coming from Melbourne and elsewhere and every gig would have a local opener. And so there was all these young local singer songwriters coming out of high school and bands and things. And I keep asking people when I was first moving down here, like, has it changed? Is there not as many kids, you know, pursuing this stuff now? Or is it just that I'm in my early 30s? And so I don't know where the cool people hangin' out. But no, so I've started running some, like little house concert gigs here in my studio. And there's actually a great little crop of actually like majority female singer songwriters, like all sort of just at the end of school age. Like around that sort of 17 to 21 mark. And a couple of them are absolutely incredible. Yeah, yeah. So there's one girl in particular who I think is overseas at the moment, trying her luck. Her name's Rubin McKenna. So she grew up in, I think, Coroid or Port Fairy, or Kirkstall, like around here. And yeah, she's only just 18. And I'm not sure how much music she has online, but if you ever saw her live, her, like she's one of those artists, her lyrics are like, she's lived three lives, like it's so beyond her age. So no, always coming across new talent. And I mean, I'd like, maybe can I ask you a question? Is there what's the music standing casted and like at the moment? - Look, I think there is some young talent around, but the exposure's not great. - Yeah. - Basically, it would be my take on that. Yeah, there's a few young kids around that I think are quite talented, but yeah. - Yeah, because that, I mean, that definitely is the thing is that, and I remember this from my used teaching guitar is like, it's one thing to have a kid interested in music and getting to a certain level of competency with it. But unless they can see how that can be translated into a tangible sort of real social experience in the community or beyond, unless they can sort of see the pathways for that, they do tend to get to it, they hit a ceiling where they kind of do sort of drop, potentially drop it, you know? And so that's where it is, and you know, that's what I'm now that I'm that little bit older, that's what we're trying to do down here is like give, you know, 'cause there's not really a lot of venues, is we were, yeah, been having shows here at my studio. I've been bringing Melbourne artists down and then getting locals to support them. And it's like they wouldn't have that opportunity otherwise. And it helps them realize that the song they've been writing in their bedroom can actually go somewhat, like it has a, there is an audience, do you know what I mean? - Do you think, like this day and age with, you know, the internet and that's exposing more people to different sort of music, but also perhaps giving a chance for these kids to get their music out there? - Absolutely, like there's more, you know, it's interesting that you'll always hear both sides, like you'll hear people talk about, you know, the streaming services sort of oversaturating 'cause anyone can upload a song or whatever. But look, I think mostly positive and mostly, it's definitely like very accessible, cost-wise, to record a song. I mean, you can, some of my favourite artists in Melbourne have recorded songs on their iPhones and uploaded them straight to Spotify. Like you can, anyone can upload a song to Spotify, you don't need a record label or anything. And if the song's good, like people might hear it, you know, so yeah, there is a lot of opportunities for kids. And I think, I think the kids are smart, like the kids are switched on, they've grown up with this technology, like I meet some kids that you're blowing me away with, you know, and then some of their marketing strategies and stuff that make me feel really old already, you know. 'Cause they understand how to use these platforms in ways that'll sort of get them that notoriety before they've even sort of played a gig, you know. That generation is starting to sort of get notoriety before they leave the bedroom. And then so, but you know, the old-fashioned approach still definitely exists where you need to get out in front of people, you need to develop that ability to play live and how to deal with a crowd, talk to a crowd, read a crowd, you know. I was really grateful for, like, you know, I was playing my first gig, it was at the Marino pub. - My turn. - I'm interested in front of three people, playing just, you know, the Kings of Leon covers or something. And, you know, I'm grateful for that experience. You know, from there, then I went to the bottom pub, and there's more to been 12 people. And I was still just playing other people's songs and probably not really playing them correctly, but it was just time on a stage, learning how to sing through a microphone. Like I remember when I first moved to Melbourne, and by that point, I played so many of these pub covers gigs out here in rural Victoria. I would get to these big music venues, and I was nervous, you know, playing my own songs in a big venue. And the sound person would come up and be like, oh man, it's great to finally have someone here that knows how to project into a microphone. And I was like, what are you talking about? And I realized that like the people starting out in the music scene in Melbourne, my age, hadn't done the like country pub, so where we were dragging our own PA system around, we didn't have a sound guy. People were yelling at the 40 screen above you. And so without even realizing it, I'd learnt how to project my voice into a microphone properly, you know, so yeah, I think it's still really important for kids to have opportunities to play live, even if they're not good. - Yeah. We definitely all have to go through that phase. I've never really liked it when anyone says, like, you know, you're born talented or like, oh, I wish I was just gifted or like, I've never really subscribed to that. I think sure you might land with some, you know, nice pairing of genetics and environment and things, and expose you to certain things that help shape you. But the only reason I was able to play music in front of crowds and not have them entirely hate it was because I spent literally hours and hours and hours in my bedroom in Begala, just playing music. You know, there was, no, it's the 20,000 hour thing, you know. It's, that's, you know, anyone can do it. And so I think that is the, you know, growing up in a small town. That's, it's easy to, you know, there was parts of me that wanted to get, it was always wanting to get out of the small town to the city where there was more people that weren't just footballers, where there was, you know, where I could feel like I had a place to fit in. But then there's also the part that was, that's so grateful for that isolation and just space to think and be expressive. - Yeah. - I'm not finished off with this question, Billy. What does casted and mean to you? - Hmm. I think casted and will always be the place where I spent my most formative years, obviously, just because of the age that I was there. I was obviously born there. It's, I always think of casted and has been extremely picturesque. Like it is, it is a really, like in regards to the landscape, it's such a beautiful place. And so yeah, I think casted and to me is, it's not home, I think, and a lot of kids would relate when you move as a teenager a couple of times, I think by the time you become an adult, you're a little bit confused as to where you're really going to call home, you know, like. So I don't think of casted and is home, but I definitely think of it as my birthplace and as a place that sort of formed me and that's naturally going to include some parts that will form that I'm still working through in therapy now and some parts that will form that I'm very, very grateful for and that probably enabled me to do things that I'm now really proud of, you know. So yeah, I've definitely got casted and in me. But I'm also sure that the places changed a lot, you know, like nothing stands still. So I'm sure it's a different place to what it was when I was there in some regards. - Thanks, heaps, Philly. It's been great catching up and really appreciate your time. - No, thanks for having me. It's such a privilege to think so. ♪ Some days are barely do ♪ ♪ Go on, get on with your life ♪ ♪ And I'll get on with it ♪ ♪ Pretend I don't exist ♪ ♪ Some days are barely do ♪ ♪ Go on, get on with your life ♪ - We hope you've enjoyed today's episode of one of our homegrown heroes. Jump over to one of our other episodes to continue the casted and connections journey with us. Please don't forget to follow our podcast and share it with your family and friends. Thank you for listening.