Bill Maher on comedy, atheism and dining with Trump

I don't ask, what will the audience like that I say? I ask, what is true? And they're okay with that. You know, the people who attack me have no argument. They just have a feeling. Their feeling is, I never want to come in second in a I-hate-Donald-Trump-the-most contest. Boring, okay? Nobody has been harder on Donald Trump. Their other argument is, you'll elevate him? Oh my God, what, is he going to become president? I always say I have a bicameral mind. In other words, if I have a problem, I think about it sober, I think about it stoned. If those two agree, then I will reconcile the bill and sign it into law. This is Newsmakers, NPR's biggest interviews. I'm Steve Inskeep. We question some of the most influential people of our time. New episodes drop whenever they're available, and the best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to this show on Spotify, YouTube, or on YouTube. Or wherever you watch or listen. You can also find us in the NPR app. Bill Maher has received the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. That puts him on a list with the likes of Richard Pryor, Bob Newhart, Tina Fey. We came here to Maher's home, where there's a screening room, to talk about his craft, his more than 30 years in television, and his often controversial opinions. Bill Maher, thanks for welcoming us here. My pleasure. I appreciate it. And congratulations on the Mark Twain Award. Oh, thank you. I had a great time. I want to begin by asking about that. What does that mean to you, to be on that particular list of people who've had that award? Well, you know, every year would go by, and I'd be like, you know, it's a lot of these people I'm huge fans of, but we're nothing like Mark Twain. Uh-huh. You know, Billy Crystal. I couldn't be a bigger fan. Nothing like Mark. You know, Mark. They're actors. I was like, well, yeah, or, you know. But me? You think you're like Mark Twain? Have you seen my work? Religion bashing, hits both sides, political comedian. You don't have the same mustache or hair, however. No, not that part. But you feel that that is, is that the model that you've been going for all this time? No, obviously the award is for anybody who has, you know, at the apex of their world of comedy. Yeah. It's a comedy award. Yeah. And there aren't a lot of other comedy awards. There's a million music awards. And acting, that's a whole season. Yeah. It starts in January and ends with the Oscars. They have the Director's Guild and this guild and these people and England and comedy. This is kind of it. And comedian is not the word we would use to describe Mark Twain, I don't think. Oh, I would. He was a stand-up comedian. Go on? Go on. What's more to go on? He stood up and told jokes. That's a stand-up comedian. I mean, he also was an author. I've written six books. I consider myself obviously a comedian first. But, you know, people have a lot of trouble with hybrids. It's amazing. I don't feel like it's that difficult. Like, Bill Maher, is he a comedian? Is he a pundit? Yeah, like Mark Twain, both, you know? I mean, there's many different kinds of comedy. And I was even thinking I wasn't sure that comedian is quite the word to take in everything that you do. Not everything. But, you know, I've done 13 stand-up HBO specials. Mm-hmm. That's a comedian. You know, that's, you can't, that is not a skill you can just sort of roll out of bed and do. What makes you want to talk about the news as opposed to human nature or any other things you can discuss? You know, my father was a newsman. Mm-hmm. So I grew up with it in my house. As a kid, you know, small kid, he was still on the air. Sometimes we could hear him. This was the days when all, right? All radio was AM radio. Yeah. Or maybe there was FM, but that wasn't a big thing. I listened to the rock and roll station when I was 12. But, you know, every station, even the rock and roll station, had news at the top of the hour. Yeah. Five minutes of news every hour, and they would interrupt the music, which we hated as a kid. But that's what my father did. And he had a collection of stopwatches. I remember those watches in his bedroom. Because in those days, you'd rip the news off the wire. And you'd have to go on and do it, you know, unrehearsed and have it come in at the exact five minutes. I mean, that was quite a skill. That's what I do now, basically. Really? Yeah. In real time like that? Live radio, and you have to hit it to the second. There you go. Well, then you understand better than most. As you're talking, I'm having a memory about my own youth and remembering that there was a point when I was a teenager when I thought that the two jobs I would most love to have would be Peter Jennings, a news anchor of that era. Or David Letterman. And you're talking, and I'm realizing you've sort of combined those two, or try to combine those two. Well, I mean, they're so different. I did a different kind of talk show than David Letterman. My idol when I was growing up was Johnny Carson, as was David Letterman. Our generation looked up to him more than anybody else. Peter Jennings, it's funny you mentioned him. He came up at dinner last night. I hadn't heard the name in years. And then. And then twice, in two days, I, and I said immediately, oh, I love that guy. I thought he did a better newscast. That was, I think the competition was Dan Rather, who took everything very, very seriously. And Tom broke off. And they were okay. But Peter Jennings was Canadian. He just was more urbane. It was like, you know, Cary Grant was doing the news. I really liked him. So I have a question for you as you talk about the news. Years ago, I had a chance to interview Steve Earle, the country musician who also spoke out a lot about political matters. Mostly a liberal is kind of on the left. And I asked him the question, how do you make sure you know what you're talking about? And his answer was, I'm a citizen, which is not actually the answer to that question. It's the answer to why he has the right to speak. I wanted to know how he makes sure he knows he's right. How do you make sure? How do you make sure you know you're right? No one knows they're right. What kind of question is that? Does that mean you don't know if you're right if you're speaking? Oh, I'm right. Okay. I know I'm right. Good exception. No, I'm kidding. I mean, look, one of the titles of one of my specials was, but I'm not wrong. I feel like I run up against that a lot. A lot of people come back at me for something I say. And I'm just like, okay, but am I actually wrong? And then silence drops. Because, you know, people just realize. I react by emotions mostly. And most people don't know much these days because they're in their bubbles. They only get the narrative that is fed to them, their algorithm. It's just so frustrating. And I'm always trying to cultivate what I think is unique to my audience. They don't want that. I said it in my Mark Twain speech. That was a big part of it that, you know, I have been sustained by the fans. They've been very loyal and they want something different. Then. And what they mostly get elsewhere. I ask what is true. And that's the source of our loving relationship all these years. Have we figured out here a way to think about what you're doing? You're against certainty. Absolute certainty. All atheists are. Is that the right word for your religion? Atheist? Of course. I made the movie Religious. Yes. I'm familiar with that. Familiar with that. Go on. About atheism. I mean, you know, and as Richard Dawkins and other famous atheists points out, atheism is just, we all had many gods over the years and we got rid of all of them except for most people one. I just went one more. And even, you know, they try to make a big difference between atheism and agnosticism. It's basically the same thing. Atheists don't say, we are a one billion percent sure. Even Dawkins says, yes, you're right. It could be the spaghetti monster on Alpha Centauri. That could be the. That could be the source of the universe. We just don't know. We don't care. You know, it's not like we're obsessed with it. We just don't care. We just want to sleep late on Sunday and we don't believe in things that are, you know, obvious, many of them obviously created by man at a time when men didn't know what a germ or an atom was. And you don't sit around wondering who created the earth or what happens after you die? We will never know the answer to that question. I don't think even AI can figure that one out. So why waste time? Why waste your time doing it? Just be a decent person for the sake of it. Not because you're going to get some otherworldly reward, which is unlikely to be what they say. I want to follow up on one of many things you've done in the last couple of years that have made news. You had dinner with President Trump. Yes. Talked about it on your program, gave a report of what you did. Many people hated that you met him. Some people liked that you met him. I'm thinking about the conclusion you drew, which was that, if I can summarize, you found a sane person at work. You found a sane person at dinner who plays a crazy person on TV, as opposed to an actual crazy person. Yeah, right. But we've had another year of his presidency to observe, and you've been critical of a lot of it. Yeah. Do you stick with that conclusion? That he's a sane person who is just acting crazy? He's so more self-aware than he lets on in public. That's another thing I said, and I'm absolutely so much more self-aware, not belligerent. And by the way, everybody who meets him says the same thing. Why do you think he would play a crazy person? a crazy person on TV. He has that choice. crazy person in the extent that he he definitely has a form of Tourette syndrome he just he just blurts out whatever is on his mind often it's funny he's he's both at the same time the most person and also the most honest you know I saw him at a he was doing an interview very much like this recently with somebody and he didn't like something she said and he just went you're a terrible person now that's just not how we act even though to be honest I've thought that not necessarily about you we'll see how this goes yeah there's time but uh just there's something different about the mind that does that um yeah he just he just speaks his interior monologue which is just you know that that is a certain type of mental disorder um but it it seems to be come out when he feels in any way attacked which is like outside of his comfort zone you know what can I tell you I mean I just found a very different person you know the people who attack me have no argument they just have a feeling their feeling is I never want to come in second in a I hate Donald Trump the most contest boring okay nobody has been harder on Donald Trump that's why the dinner happened to begin with it was sort of a Nixon to China thing you know yeah let's just talk to each other instead of hurling insults well he's back to hurling insults because I never once changed my tune when I got back to work I never said I would and their other argument is you'll elevate him oh my god when is he going to become president he's pretty elevated now I mean you isolate him he's got a lot of friends you know he doesn't read the briefing books he does everything by people saying be one of the people saying be one of those people who talk to him because he does look you in the eye and listen and he does change his mind sometimes because he has no fixed beliefs they need more people like this me talking to him not less do you talk to him regularly I know I would not say regularly and once he went back to insulting me on his social media um but there was a time when he would yell at me on my twitter on my twitter on my uh texting he would yell at me and and meaning like who would have no not all caps but just you know I thought you were better than you you're still a lunatic he thinks you're a lunatic okay and it was like you don't think he's a lunatic he thinks that's just the way he talks it just is you just when he insults me people say oh my god you see Trump did it again he's told you this it's like that's just who he is there's no point at this moment after 10 years I've done all these jokes I did all the editorials he's a mafia boss he's a used car sales I did it the fact that people can just still get their jollies endlessly reading and writing the same story I get it he's an I'm with you I just don't know how this advances anything have you thought differently about him at all as he has spent so much more time uh on decorating and on monuments to himself yeah these I'm sorry I didn't mean to make you choke on the water these are the things I don't care about this is his genius getting you to care about and look I shouldn't care about that arch or whatever no go on absolutely not not the arch not the pool not the ballroom this is all meaningless stuff Steve Bannon famously said the way we win is we flood the zone with and you're eating the you don't have to care about what's important I can I can name the politicization of the Justice Department doge ice uh corruption you know lots of things and even stuff where it was not a bad idea but they screwed up the execution like the Iran war like you know I mean doge not a ice all these things that they could have done better and they just can't help themselves this is a country where people get drunk with power when they get in happens to the democrats to a degree too and they always go too far and then get the other side gets elected and then we just live in this world where we're everybody's just always undoing what the other one is it has just done one of the question about this dinner in recounting what happened you said that you told the president you're scaring people yeah and then you said you didn't remember what he said in response I don't remember exactly what he said but it wasn't I'm going to stop that was the thing that I most wanted to know a thing I'd like to know as you spend time with him do you think but it wasn't but it was first to scare excuse me but it also wasn't what he does in public it wasn't how dare you you lunatic left crazy person it was just like we're talking just like two people talking do you think he wants to scare people yes I do I think that's part of the closing the border strategy you have in his view you have to be in my view unnecessarily cruel to get the message across welcome Matt pulled up okay we got it we got that message and that's one of his big flaws he just thinks you have to do things like that he does lack a chip for compassion that is it you know not a great quality in a president I want to ask another question about what you do you put out so much material you have done this show for years and years and years you write what's basically an essay at the end yes like a news comment oh yes you do a lot of bits that's funny you interview people that's always funny we'll stipulate that it's funny it always is funny everybody else can do these things but I can't make them funny I was thinking about somebody else who talks about the news on tv Greg Gutfeld in an interview some time ago with the New York Times he admitted that he sometimes has what he called recreational beliefs things that are fun to profess to believe on television whether you actually believe them or not that that rings so true to me of republicans these days they're kind of winking you know I mean I had just had J.D. Vance on the show a couple of weeks ago you know I mean I uh as the president would say hit him hard with things I mean I talked to these guys like we're in a bar I think they like it you know I just said to him this election stuff this has to stop you know where there's only two outcomes either you win or we cheat he danced away from that they know they know who they work for they know the that they're saying and it's like what's the point of just pausing there and saying well then you have to leave they're not going to change they're in power it's always I think better to engage and to feel like oh this is a person who at least has the respect to listen to my bull because what they what the right wing hates the most about the left is their condescending attitude and I don't blame them they the left has this attitude like and this is true of the Trump dinner you are just too deplorable even to break bread with that really gets them and I don't blame the feeling the feeling they have about that you know talk to them there as I always say everybody's a monster till you talk to them is there anybody you wouldn't talk to of course that Fuentes people like that like actual Nick Fuentes yeah yeah who's an activist or whatever he's a Nazi he's he's you know plain I mean look nowadays everybody's crazily anti-Israel but that guy is you know when they say Trump is Hitler such a dumb thing to say first of all counterproductive also he's not Hitler but this Fuentes kid that's Hitler I mean yeah as I read that thing about Greg Gutfeld I was thinking about whether you would ever do that yourself have a recreational belief totally not that's exactly the opposite of me and why my audience stays with me it's your goal to be who you are and say what you think yeah the poster we put up it says he's not in it for the likes and that's why they like me the great irony of my career he's not I they know I'm even if they don't agree they know I'm not just saying it you're surely aware of the dangers of being on television it's not good for a lot of people's personalities do you think about that and how do you manage it to try not to become almost a caricature of what you are on TV I'm so the opposite ask anybody who knows me I'm exactly the same person do I look like I'm acting you've done some acting oh yeah you're on murder she wrote many years ago in the 80s that's right in the 80s I'm mostly I was still a I started as a stand-up the template back then was you know you you were started in New York and when you have like five or six good five-minute chunks that you could do on the tonight show you go out to California yeah that's what happened to me and you get on the tonight show with Johnny Carson and he gives you one of these and hopefully you get a sitcom and all that happened to me I went right it was like I was following the playbook but you know at the end of the decade it was like okay I've done three sitcoms I don't really want to be the office creep this is I feel like I'm shortchanging myself it's not really what I was ever meant to do and I was fortunate because you know show business is mostly the cream rises at the top but there are some people who I think are very talented and they never make it because it is somewhat luck and I could have been roadkill I'm well aware of that I was like 36 I think when I got politically incorrect yeah you know that's about right to you know walk into something that's actually going to sustain you for your career where the thing you're supposed to be doing and that the audience takes to, but you know, you wouldn't want to do it much later than that. Yeah. But I'm curious if this is something you have to work at to not lose yourself in all the bright lights and celebrity and everything else. I don't, I'm not like Michael Jackson in 1985, you know, there's not like people like thronging around. No, no. I mean, my life is, is, is a great balance of that. Everything you'd want from, uh, being yeah. Rich and famous. Why guilt? Why not just say it as it is. I have without a lot of the things that I don't have to worry about, like the paparazzi following me, like Britney Spears or something, or, you know, I'm not going to get killed going through a tunnel. Uh, and yet everything is, is, is it just, it's fine, you know, and lots of people have no clue who I am. That's great too. Yeah. And I like that. I like the people who like me and, uh, you know, mostly what I worried about when I was younger was, you know, am I going to be any kind of success? I would not have been a good failure, you know, and I've been on 33 years. I think, you know, if it ended tomorrow, I think we can say it did not, uh, come, come out to be a failure. 33 years is pretty amazing. It is. I want to ask something more about faith. You said you're an atheist. I also know you were raised Roman Catholic. Yes. Ooh. Um, I put in the time, bro. Uh, here's my question about that. I want credit for that. Uh, there's a lot of people who grow up in a religious household and maybe they change later. They lose their faith. They end up with a different faith, but something about that upbringing sticks with them, shapes the way they think. Is there something about being a Catholic that sticks with you now all these years later? Fear. I mean, if I walk into the church, I'll still get like clammy from how they traumatized me. Who is they and how did they traumatize you? Priests and nuns. Mean people. Priests and nuns. You know, nuns, they're married to Jesus and apparently he's not putting out because only people who are deprived like that or mean like that, you know, to little, to little kids, you know, who don't know what, uh, you know, if you, if you tell them they're going to hell when they're seven, they're going to believe it. Things like that. You remember a specific thing that happened? Yes. I remember that. I remember once I was slouching during, uh, first communion practice and the lady said, the boy who's slouching is going to go to hell. For slouching? For slouching. I think that's just a short time in purgatory. I'm not a religious specialist, but. Well. So did you then go home thinking about hell? One time practicing for the other one. What happened? What's the one when you're 13? Um, confirmation, which I never quite got to. I, uh, ram my head. We had this little ball field in the backyard. And there was like two posts holding up like a, my father put up like chicken wire. It's a backstop. Okay. And I ran my, my head into the post to have an injury, to avoid going to, um, communion practice. Wait a minute. You deliberately ran your head. Oh, confirmation practice. Yes. Because, because why? Because. I wanted to get out of going to, uh, the best plan I could think of to, uh. What made it so horrible that you wouldn't want to sit there? They were the priests and nuns. I just told you they were. They were like, wow. There is a fly here. You could be like Obama in that famous interview and grab, grab it. Better not get Lyme here. Okay. From NPR. Oh, that would be sad. That would be sad. No. Um, yeah, it was just traumatic. It was very traumatic. Uh, is your life something of a rebellion against that? The life you've chosen to lead? The mosquito is now by your nose. I'm just sorry to say. There we go. Take a moment. All right. Now it's gone. This thing is not going to get me. And I'm a PETA board member, but I'm going to kill this. I'm told there's not a lot of Lyme in Southern California, so hopefully we're okay. Well, yeah, you never know. Okay. Anyway, what was the question? Uh, I'll be darned if I can remember. Oh, I, is your life to some extent a rebellion against that certainty against the church in a sense? Well, Barbara, that's very deep. Uh, I'm going to take that as a compliment because she was a great interviewer. Go on. I have to say Barbara Walters for people of a certain generation. Go on. She was great, wasn't she? It was great. She was, yeah. Um, I don't think so, but you know, who knows what, what evil looks in the hearts of men. And I feel like once I was able to, um, gain the perspective of an adult about religion and what they had told me and how they scared me, I think I was over it. I'm not a believer in wallowing either in myself. Or a great approver of it and others. I think we condone a lot, uh, way too much wallowing in this country as opposed to just saying to people, look, yes, traumas happen and some are worse than others for sure. This hardly was the worst. I mean, I was not like I was molested by a priest and I'm a little insulted by that, but okay. It was still traumatic to me. Um, the people have had worse and obviously people get over things in their own time. But certainly as we know from lots of people who do just at one point in adulthood, say to them, okay, that's, I'm just going to make the conscious decision to not think about that anymore, to not let that be the thing in my life that controls me. And there is a certain amount of conscious decision-making you can do in the service of that. I think I did that at some point. I want to ask about an aspect of the Mark Twain ceremony that people will have an opportunity to watch. People get up on stage at the Mark Twain award, uh, and they're people that have some meaning to you and they celebrate you or roast you. Uh, and one of them was Louis CK. Some people will be mad about that. Some people will celebrate that. I just want to know, uh, how you think about it. What did it mean to you to bring him up? Cause this is clearly your choice. Anyone who's still mad at that, you know, has no concept of like. Appropriate punishment. Like we do it in the law. Not everything is a hanging offense. If you're in show business jail for 10 years, maybe that's enough. I mean, he owned it. Wasn't cool. Is it your whole life? You have to, you know, I mean, that's the, and I just got to correct one thing. It's not like they just showed up. The best part of this whole thing was those are the people I invited. These are people I asked and everybody. Said, yes, the one person who couldn't be there was Jerry Seinfeld, who was on the road, but made an awesome video while he was on the road. Everybody else said right away, and this is a two day event. I mean, it's these people are busy in a, to interrupt their lives like that. Um, I, that to me was, was what meant everything that Jay Leno and Whitney Cummings and Louis CK and Woody Harrelson, Ariara Huffington and Stephen a Smith and John Mellencamp about ready to go on the road. The road would come and sing the song at the end for me. Um, that was everything to me. We could do another half hour talking about John Mellencamp. He's a friend of yours. I believe he is a friend of mine. Uh, I want to follow up on Louis CK though, in making that invitation. Are you just inviting a friend or telling the world something? It's already been told to the world. Really? Do we have to just dwell on this? He's effectively come back. That's fair enough. Well, you know, the speech he made interesting. Now you're bringing this up. He, everybody else, um, had something in the teleprompter. He had nothing. He just went out there and said, you know what? I just want to tell this one story about Bill. I had no idea what he was going to say when he said it. I was so moved because I'd never heard him say that to me privately in so many words. Yeah. And he just said, you know, when I was at a kind of a low point, Bill reached out to me and said, you know, I think enough's enough and. If you want anything I can do to rehabilitate, I'd love to do it. You can come on the show, talk about it or come on the show and we don't address it at all would be my preference. Just like, okay, we did it. You went to jail. You know, when you're out of jail, you're out of jail. Um, you know, we don't do that a lot in this country or even like obey law. I just had Kevin Spacey on another one. You're probably like, Oh. How could you have him on? There was five accusations. I don't know if they were all trials, but they're all something where there was an official exoneration. Woody Allen, two exhaustive police summaries, not to mention how preposterous the story is that he was molesting his own daughter in the attic there. Doesn't matter. People just want to believe what they want to believe. So when the jury comes in on the side you like, Oh, perfect. They're juries. Juries spoke, but when they don't, it's like, Oh no, screw that. Forget it. I don't care about the police investigations. I don't care about the exam. Like either the law means something or it doesn't, you know, and not every punishment should be forever. Have some grace. Is that why you called Louis CK, not just now, but years ago when he was in the middle of everything because he felt it was important to him. Well, it wasn't when he was in the middle of everything. It was after quite a period of time when I, the judge, fell in love with him. The judge felt he had, I mean, people get like two years for rape. You know, I mean, the, the, the, the, the weird sort of. No rules for how we mete out punishment in this country for offenders is pretty weird. I mean Garrison Keillor had to go away, but people will be there. Globalize the Infitada. Yeah, Garrison Keillor is gone, but like let's cheer for the Hamas rapists who did October 7th. I hear you. I hear you. Your audience is going to love this, by the way. The audience is a little more diverse than you might think. Really? But sure, some people – I mean I'm surprised you even had me on. Because I just think of this place as so different than what it used to be and like I would – what I always want people to do but it's so hard to get people to do these days is just engage with the argument. You can hate me, whatever, for whatever your reasons. I'm too old. Whatever I am, are you engaging with the argument? Tell me if I'm wrong about something and then we're going to be cool. But that's not what either extremism – That's not what extremism does in this country anymore. And I – maybe I'm wrong, but I think of this place as like on the far extreme of the left. But I could be wrong. Yeah, maybe there's a little more variety in who we talk to than you might have been told. Well, who you talk to is different than like what people believe. Are there beliefs that the audience can be – examine – oh, you know, I think that's a good point. Maybe – or is it just like, no. That's different. It's on – that's not conformed to the one true opinion. So, you know, I mean it's – Well, I'm with you. We want to hear all kinds of people and we go out of our way to do it. Great. I've got a couple of other questions. You just referred to people saying – maybe people say you're too old or whatever. I am interested in that challenge, if that's the word. George Clooney was on NPR once and talked about how he'd made a conscious decision that he was going to grow old on screen. There were other things he could do with his life. But he decided he was going to do that. And he said it's not for the faint of heart. And you can imagine all the reasons why. Oh, please. It's pretty easy for a pretty boy like him. If I look like him, I'd like to grow old on screen too. Well, you're growing old on screen. Yeah, yeah. So how much do you think about that? How much of a challenge is it? I mean if you're asking specifically about TV and looks, that is a relevant factor. I don't care what people say. No one would ever admit it. But there is a point where people just don't want to look at you. That's just human nature. And I'm certainly not going to have plastic surgery or anything. At the moment, because I live completely health consciously, only the best pot that I grow here and the best tequila. That's your health secret, tequila and pot. No, I know. I eat very well. Okay. And I try to get sleep. No, health is a real hobby of mine. I mean, I'm not the healthiest person in the world, but those are the worst two things I do is like I have literally three or four drinks at most a week. I used to have that, you know, before I went out. And the pot, people think I smoke pot all day, every day. I don't smoke every day. Never have. You know, I smoke situationally and, you know, is it good for me? No. I don't believe my hippie friends. It's not health food. But, you know, we all got to have some vice. I want to ask about that because you told an interviewer a couple of years ago. That there were a limited number of occasions where you would use pot. Yes. One of them is sex. Let's not talk about that because it's a family network. But another one is writing. You said that you use pot to write. Sex, writing, and stand-up is what I used to love. I still love. How does it help you write? I would think it would cloud your mind. No. Drugs work differently on different people. They just do. Some people smoke pot and they get sleepy. It's often used as a sleep aid. But, you know, after all, somebody called it getting high. Other people use it for creative means. They're much more energetic. Much more. The last thing I would ever do if I wanted to go to sleep was smoke pot. It would keep me up all night. It would be like you drinking a pot of coffee. People have different body chemistry. Drugs hit you different. I did cocaine stupidly for about a year and a half at one point after resisting it throughout the entire 80s when everyone was doing it. It was never my drug. But, you know what? If you insist. You can get your body to. And it had the opposite effect on me than it had on most people. Have you ever ridden while high and then you come back to what you wrote and you don't even remember what you wrote and what your point was? No. I mean, there's certainly things I edit out. But, no, basically it makes me think better, quicker, faster. Things are moving around more. And also it just changes my mood immediately from looking at a blank piece of paper and going, oh, I've got to do this to, oh, great, this is fun. Oh, and it just flows out of me. And, of course, then you edit also when you're sober. In other words, if I have a problem, I think about it sober. I think about it stoned. But the two sides have to agree. Got it. Got it. Better than a therapist. One other thing I want to ask about, and I think of it because I've done my job. My job, not quite as long as you've done yours, but more than 20 years. And after all that time, I feel that I'm still learning how to do the job, figuring out ways to do it better. I'm still saying that. That's what I want to know. You're still learning. I'm still learning and still finding I'm a tinkerer. I do like work. I do like a routine. I like the process. And it's amazing. After all these years, I will still once in a while find a way, oh, yeah, if I do this in the afternoon, that's a little more effective. Or, you know, it's amazing that it can still surprise you with something you could do better. And I imagine there are people, like, in business, that's what they do. Like, oh, you know what? If we move the pallets over here after the assembly line, then, you know, we can make profit more, two points at more, you know, that kind of shit. I'm not a businessman, but I'm sure that's what they do and how they get their jollies. And that's what you're still doing after all. Yeah, yeah. I just do it with Joe. And is that true with, like, writing a joke, telling a joke, carrying something off? Like, is there even, like, a little subtlety, like, how long to pause? That sort of thing that you learn a little more. You're talking about timing now. Well, that would be one thing. Well, Bob Hope said there are three elements to comedy. One is timing, which you cannot teach. And he's totally right. The other one was material. I don't remember what the third one was. I must be doing it. I've been on 33. I've been on 33 years. But the timing one, everyone would agree who's ever done comedy. You cannot teach it. It is so split second. You either feel it correctly or you don't. And that I think I got because I had a funny father, you know, a living room comedian, which is the case with a lot of comedians, have a father who's kind of funny and you want to emulate him, but he's not, like, a professional. And my mother was witty also. And there were, you know, the family. My family would watch comedians on TV and enjoyed them. I absorbed that when I was young. Wanted to be a comedian. I knew I did when I was less than 10 years old. So it was kind of in my blood. I was very lucky with that because you can't teach it. You ever go to air and you're just disappointed with what you've got? I'm not ever, I would say, disappointed anymore. I don't ever watch my own show, partly because I was there. I don't need to. But also I would just brood about what I could have done better. I mean, a lot of the show is ad lib with the panel. I mean, not everything. It's going to come out the way you want it. I mean, I'm always, I'm a perfectionist. So it's like, oh, I could have said, I could have, should have said that. Or I, you know, went too far with that. Or a lot of times it's just, you get cut off. I was, I was making this point and I really needed to make the other half of it for people to understand what my real view on this. But this guy cut me off and I'm serving many masters. I got to let the panel talk. And then we never got back to it. So people only heard things like that go through my head. But I don't mess up the show anymore. I mean, the first year I said it at my Mark Twain speech, first year was not a very good show. Like many shows aren't the first year you got to find your, and that's one reason why I'm so grateful to HBO because they don't go by how good you are. They go by how good they, you, they think you can be, or at least they did that with me. And that's a big thank you to them for that. But no, I, you know, I go by the Don Rumsfeld. You don't go to war with the army you have. I mean, the army you'd like. You go to war with the army you have. I feel like every week that's, if I, if I had another hour, what I, not usually the, the editorial at the end, I work on that like probably 20 hours a week. That's. 20 hours a week for five minutes, sometimes longer. Yeah, probably eight to 10. But I rewrite that every day. It, I, by the time Friday comes around, it is exactly what I want usually. And no extra words and, you know, no fat. No, whatever. All my goals are usually fulfilled there. The rest of it is a little more of a crapshoot. And, you know, like I say, you don't want to spend your life brooding about how it could have been better. Everything could have been better. I don't know who said it, but a work of art is never finished. It's only abandoned. Last thing then, your parents are gone. To my knowledge, yes. Just checking. Well, one never knows. We're talking about religion and faith. They might still be around. What do you think they'd say if they could have gone to that Mark Twain ceremony? No, but I talked to them. every day good to know i'm kidding you i'm talking to them every day they're dead okay okay so what's the question what do you think they would say if they could have attended oh it's so sad that my father died right before i started doing politically incorrect because here's a father who was funny and in news and here's his son getting a show where you're being funny about the news i mean he saw me on johnny carson and of course is very proud when i was starring in cannibal women in the avocado jungle of death congrats on that and of course how did you avoid the oscar on that anyway go on i'm sorry uh yeah and and uh so if he could have just seen that it would have been like such a perfect full circle moment but you know you can't control those kind of things my mother lived 15 years after he died and she did see me you know on on both politically incorrect and then on um real time and uh she was always like a real mother to the end one time i was staying in washington we were doing the show there and she always asked me about the hotel when i was on the road and i said uh she how's the room i said well they gave me the presidential suite and she said uh why and i said mom i'm kind of what your mom is for i said i'm kind of a big shot now and she said i know i just remember when i was holding your little hand did she ever really disagree with something you said on an issue um or make it clear without quite saying which is a thing my mom might do that is a great question um it's you know the mists of time uh it's so hard to pull it up you know stuff like that i can't nothing springs to mind um but you've made me want to think about it and i would probably go issue by issue and think this one this one but no nothing nothing springs to mind but you know come on your mother i mean i remember when oj's mother was in the gallery and it's like she thought he was a he can't blame the mother that's the job that's the job it's your mother if you can't you can't get your mother on your side your mother was on your side we can say that totally bill maher it's been a pleasure thank you so much me too yeah this was fun the news does not keep a schedule and neither do we new episodes of newsmakers publish as soon as they're available any day of the week the best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to this show on spotify youtube or wherever you watch or listen you can also find us in the npr app newsmakers relies on supporters who value independent journalism and a free press you can join npr plus today to support our work and get perks from the podcasts you trust just go to plus.npr.org i'm steve inskeep thanks for listening to npr's newsmakers Thanks for watching!