Biggest NBA Offseason Winners & Losers + A Major Update On NBA Ownership

(upbeat music) - Hello, welcome to the Who Collective Podcast. We talk about the NBA which we're doing on Thursday afternoon. Joining me from Naples, Florida is our front office man, Bobby Marks. - Hello gentlemen, how we doing today? - And joining us from the Eastern Time Zone, Bobby, actually from the basketball offices at Wake Forest University is Ben McMahon. - Howdy, Partners, Bobby doing well. - I don't know when you didn't answer that, but kind of rooting him. Hey, not just the basketball offices, I am in the office of the General Manager, Steve Lyman, longtime friend of the pod, better friend now that he has delivered some free swag. He is now hosting an unofficial recruiting visit with my daughter. - She's not a hooper, but taking a college tour and I'm hoping he's got some in IL. And then IL deal for his tuition here is tough, but beautiful campus and looking forward to getting to the facility here in a little bit. - You're pretty far from home up there in the northern part of North Carolina there, buddy. - Well, and we started off at Tulane, Auburn, Georgia, pre-stopped at Clemson. Now we're awake, North Carolina and Duke to come, and we'll see where she ends up. I'm kind of like, oh, come. - How do I cook them up there? - Are you driving all these? Are you flying? - We flew into New Orleans, drove, you know, it's been a long road trip since, and then we'll fly home after-- - I can't drive more than four hours. I got a four hour timer on me. I just can't, like, that's it. - Well, three more hours, I got a fly to. - Bobby, I don't have to tell you how to, how to dad. You've done off the well for yourself, but a dad tip, especially with teenage daughters, timing the car, that means you've got to cap the audience. - Horsewalkie time, so I don't mind the five hour drives between some of these places. - All right, you're going very ACC and SEC there, and no Texas flavor whatsoever. - Well, TCU is on her list, Texas is on her list, she's seen those schools, so this is a chance to see some other schools. - Dad wants her to be a long horn, Bobby. - I like you in state tuition, I ain't gonna lie. - Well, in state, it was a lot easier than applying out of state. I know that for a fact, as you spent years all the way across the country to USC. - To a private school in California. - We were just talking, he could've went to Florida, Florida State for free, but I mean, sentiment at the SC. - Yeah, it's how, who would leave Los Angeles to come to Florida, like maybe LeBron? - Absolutely, absolutely. - That's the beginning of our LeBron, I hope you enjoyed it. All right, so we've reached a point, and see, Bobby, the league is essentially frozen at this point, with LeBron, you know, there could be some extensions, I suppose, but in terms of players moving, the league right now is essentially on hold until LeBron makes up his mind. Would you agree? - I would fully agree. I mean, we saw a Jordan Wall, a little minor three years, $50 million on Thursday morning, but everyone else is the transaction page has not moved at all over the last week here. - All of them, the Maverick side. - Well, most of them said, yeah. - And that's a good contract for them too, right? - By the way, I believe the Mavericks have 16 contracts now, McMan, 16 guaranteed contracts. - They'll figure it out. I would say. - Well, that's the, have a Memphis got 21, they still haven't signed Cream Lopez, I don't think. So they're, get some teams got to figure out their roster a little bit here. - I don't think in both cases, veterans are available. - Well, that's what I'm asking. What about Clay Thompson? - Make it offer. - What if Clay Thompson makes his own offer? - I mean, I'm sure that they would be willing to listen. - Okay. - You know, I'm like, listen, if you're out, I don't know if Clay Thompson's on the Mavericks come training camp. I don't know, I just, I don't know that. - Well, let's just keep, let's just think about and see what happens with the Mavericks. They've got to move a player. - Yeah, the only thing out there on Clay Thompson is like any kind of buyout, you are losing a nice size, expiring contract that could be valuable in the trademark, it would be my only hesitation there. - Absolutely correct. All right, so with the lead pause, we'll wait on Demarder Rosemoll, wait on Jonathan Kominga, heard from Jonathan Kominga's agent, Aaron Turner, after my comments the other day. - Did that get your hands going? Did it get the hands going? - That's just an indication that I need to take time off because I'm on edge about things. I'm at the end of the rope. - Yeah, I had someone text me speaking of on edge about LeBron and someone reputable and I text it back. I could care less. (laughing) - I do, I mean, I care, I don't want Rich and Matt. I don't want Rich getting mad at me, but I was just like, I don't really care. Right now, I'm just like, whatever happens happens, you know? - I don't know, let's be real. Like at this point, it'd be nice if it made a decision. I don't know if Adam Silver trying to hurry it up, did anything but slowed it down a little bit more. - Real quick on that. I don't want to discredit anybody. I don't want to get into this game. LeBron is not waiting because of Adam Silver saying that, okay? - I just said it didn't hurry him up. - No, I know, I'm just, nobody knows what LeBron's doing. There's incredible amount of crap out there. Nobody knows. Not even people close to him know. He's making up his own mind. Whether he wants to articulate why and what he's thinking about later, fine. If you want to speculate as to what you'd be thinking about if you were LeBron, cool. If you want to make an argument for which team would make more sense or less sense or whatever, absolutely fill the time. I'm telling you, nobody knows. The teams don't know, the coaches don't know. The players don't know, the owners don't know. They don't know. - Do you know? - I don't know. - Oh. - I know that this is, it's not, it's totally not what anybody wants to hear. They don't know, okay? Let's move on. - I think, well, thanksgiving. - What I said about Jonathan Cumming the other day was not personal Jonathan Cumminga. It was in reaction to people saying that they were going to sign and trade him with the Hawks getting players back. That's not happening. The Hawks are four million, I'm not going to go over it again. I hope Jonathan Cumminga has a great season. I hope the best form. I hope he gets paid. Good luck to everybody. I hope everybody does great. Okay. Cumminga is waiting. Tomorrow to Rosen is waiting. Bradley Beale is waiting. Who else am I forgetting, Bobby? The restricted guys continue in limbo. - That would have happened, I don't think that would have happened either way. - No, hey, Maude. - Good evening, Mathurin. - Benedict's Mathurin, yeah, restricted. Okay, my point is we're in a law. So, let's take this moment. Let's have a deep breath. It's relaxed. Talking to myself. By the way, the heat social media team didn't know either. Okay? They don't know. - They didn't help. - The situation at the end. - I understand they didn't help it, but I promise you they didn't know. Okay? After not five, I don't know if you guys remember this, but LeBron had an intro presser in Miami before, and not five, not six, not seven, has trailed them ever since. - Well, let's do. - He got two, and now he's got a chance to get, not five, six, I mean, he might play at least 50 and win eight, nine, pen, who knows in Miami. - He has not done quote unquote intro pressers in Cleveland or Los Angeles, there's very likely not gonna be an intro presser. So, don't even worry about it. I've had to talk about an ESPN for three days. How many more days will I have to talk about it? Okay. I thought that, at this moment-- - You got to talk about it on ESPN. - Thank God. I thought we should take a look at this juncture at some of what we think are the winners and losers. So, we're gonna each call a winner and each call a loser. And Bobby, I'd like for you to go first. - Ooh, I love winner. - You know what? And looking at that shirt that Tim's got on, that Wake For shirt, he's inspired me to pick the team. The team that Tim Duncan once played on, Wake For, and formerly played on San Antonio. The bias Harris to your contract, $15 million. And more important, the old five year, $252 million, without any escalator clauses. And Yama, that drew the ire of David Kelly, the executive director of the Players Association, as far as the ability to, I guess, give back and not put that escalator clause in there that could earn him potentially another $50 million that will help keep Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper and Asperger's uniform for the foreseeable future. I would say that would be my big winner of the offseason. - What does it say that you're a big winner is that they got an existing player to take a below-market contractor? - Yeah, and they got a quality vet edition. He didn't mention the couple first round picks, although the big from Kentucky probably isn't playing this year. But listen, it is a huge deal. When you got a guy who gave you a $50 million discount in a summer where, and I might bring this team up a little bit where you're. Chief rival is shedding contributors purely for financial reasons purely to duck that second apron Well, I will tell you that Zach Kram our colleague at ESPN gave his off-season grades It's kind of hard to give off-season grades right now with You know a couple of teams what they do with with extensions are really going to define their off-season for example the nix Carl Towns, you know, he's extension eligible right now Bobby and we have no you know We have no agreement on the extension. Well, I would argue I know they lost much of Robinson and all this stuff But I would argue that the nix off-season is defined by what contract they get or not get Carl Towns into More hoop collective podcast after this And you know the heats, you know the heat you know They certainly have had quite an off-season by getting Yannis and a couple but if they get LeBron It takes to another level having said that, you know Zach Kram did great. He gave out six a's Mm-hmm, and the the San Antonio Spurs got I should say he gave out two a's and four a minuses So I guess two a's and the San Antonio Spurs got one of his a's Did the other team to get the a with a your winner band McMahon should I say who the other team was? They don't just say your team and that will I'm gonna go with one of his a-minuses though and This is controversial because they didn't get better immediately But I think they set themselves up to have a higher ceiling down the road and that's the Charlotte Ornitz You know getting look that that Sun's first round pick was getting traded They want a race for the Sun's first round pick and what was it 2033 Bobby? Yeah, yes, I mean that there. I'm I've talked to teams. It's like man They got to before we couldn't and to get that pick for Miles Bridges that that's like wow That's that was really good work And then the Demelo trade is gonna be a polarizing deal and there's a chance that he could make them look very bad for it Nobody doubts his talent. Maybe You know his second and he is he's come off his best year and Maybe with a change of scenery sliding to kind of the the Shotgun role in Minnesota A Mellow's career very well could take off but I haven't heard anybody tell me they thought that was a bad deal for the Hornitz You know on the contrary I've heard people say hey They did a great job of letting him restore his value and Pounce and as soon as they got an opportunity To get a first round pick and return and they You know look Jeff Peterson's not gonna sit there and say it But he has a very clear vision for the culture that he wants for the Charlotte Hornitz and the Mellow Ball Miles Bridges did not fit that And so you know they're gonna have the culture that he wants as they build around Brandon Miller and Con Conniple Not that I've disagreed with either of you. I would just say that you know your two winners one team was getting rewarded for Resigning its own player. I mean Tobias Harris a good addition But yeah the other is getting well, you know rewarded for taking making deals that potentially make it worse on the short run Which I think just goes to the complex nature How you look at all it off season moves in the NBA more than anything right? I wanted to say Atlanta, but I don't want to get Bontans in the head Well, I'm not talking I drop Atlanta and he and they did did they get they got an eight minus you know I'd automatically drop Atlanta to other grades for bringing in that Bozo Bontan Yeah, it was is cram did let me just see here. Did he try that that transaction not come because of the Bontans higher? Yeah, how did it affect that they didn't even mention Bontans? How could you how could you discuss the Hawks off season not mention their biggest transaction? Well, they got a whole bunch of players for bait the Hawks got a whole bunch of players for Basically free. Yeah, like they got they got Lou Dort What did they send out in that deal? They sent a two seconds? They did send our roots. I shake it down. Yeah, okay Really they added that he wasn't well the thing with Risha Shades they were gonna have to decide by October whether to do whether to Pick up his 17 million dollar player option for next season right and they probably would have had to because he's a number one pick But yeah, I don't they they decided they wanted to trade them. They didn't want to do that So sure and by the way, it was an aunty solace pick. He wasn't he wasn't in charge. They made him a more pick if that was to find Castle They're not shipping them out. Well, I think a big part of Houston or Said Houston because I was thinking of Kingston Fleming's a big part of Atlanta's off season will be judged on how what kind of a season Fleming's has Yeah, because that's a very important pick for them You know, he doesn't have to be great right away But like when you evaluate it. That's you know because that was a very important move for them You know, they gave they moved back and last year's draft. They could have had an impact player in last year's draft. So anyway My winner, I'm just gonna have to go with Philadelphia because While they gave away the pick and the swap They took a they took a they took a 36 year old Paul George who Had two years left on his contract at the max, you know a I don't know if I call it toxic contracts, but certainly one of the worst contracts in the league. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm trying I've offended people this week. I'm trying not to Drag kick to it just to get off it At least and maybe maybe they would have to draft the draft compensation that they ended up giving up and they got it all and be a player return Right, I mean Paul George played 37 games last year got a 25 game suspension and people were like and I think not unreasonably People were like boy that time off might not have been the worst thing cuz it got him healthy. Yeah, and it did he came back and was good so You know like Jalen Brown, whatever you want to say he's under contract for three more seasons He's Top 10 player in the league, you know top 15 depending on what your viewpoint is certainly somebody's not saying he's not a a top 15 player And he's looking for a revenge right and it was a phenomenal uh Edition as far as just a talent upgrade for the Sixers. I am curious about the fit With or without LeBron. I am very curious about how it all fits Well, I mean just the what they turned Paul George into Mm-hmm regardless of how it all may work out because it's not an ideal fit as you said I mean you you got to give the sex the Sixers front office Mike Gancy the first year as general manager Credit for that one and the Dean. I like the Dean Wade edition. I mean, they paid a little you know Little bit of money for Dean Wade, but um, you know in terms of like every year It's like the contract to give him four years. Yeah, yeah, so But I'm not quibbling, you know, not quibbling. I mean Huge win to get Jalen Brown and that could end up changing their entire horizon really it could So I'm calling them a winner. All right regardless of LeBron. All right For every winner there must be a loser uh, and McMan. I will start with you I'm gonna go to the Oklahoma City Thunder and it's not because I think they did anything that was illogical But there it you're it's a loss when you have to or decide to or a pressure to by ownership Make a series of trades that are motivated purely on dumping salary in Dropping your luxury tax payment from what Bobby was the final number in salary luxury tax that they shed 300 some on 57 to like 234 Something like that. Yeah, 320 something million dollars, but here's an end look they they backfilled they spent a cut Yeah, first round pick on a guard been it starts uh a lottery pick on a big man a day more of the Uh who I think it's got a chance to be really interesting. He's he's gonna need some time in terms of getting Physically ready for NBA play um the Isaiah Hartenstein um Deal was great value for them and it was great value for them because Hartenstein understood the crunch they were in and was willing to work with them To take a reduced salary to get to get locked in um, but look it's a loss when you have to trade Uh a year and change out of one in the championship three guys who are significant contributors to that championship And I understand Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins fell to the fringe of the rotation the playoffs, but their debt took a big hit Lou Dork, you know, you can argue whether he was playing too much against the spurs But he's had been a huge piece for them out for years and then it's What this summer for them is really going to be judged based on do you get case and wall assigned Do you get hey jay Mitchell signed because shedding the salary now You know sam pressed he went on the record jester martins with the Oklahoma and basically saying This is to set us up to be able to keep this team together moving forward So you've got to keep those guys those key guys, so you know, I assume walls probably moves in the starting lineup I you know you've got to keep him and that's not gonna be cheap AJ Mitchell whether he's in that starting spot or or six man. He's not Going to be cheap, but you've got to keep those guys over. This is just a bad situation and another thing is Culturally this was a loss because You know this kind of uh boy scout utopia But the thunder had like you know NBA business has interfered with that. You know one of their favorite stories during The second round series against the Lakers was Isaiah Joe pretty much lost his spot in rotation To Jerry McCain and Isaiah Joe great team guy He's he's standing on on the on the bench engaged in the game and he's yelling to diagonal plays to run to get McCain to ball because McCain was cooking Right, but then you know that guy you turn around and that guy gets dumped right he gets salary dumped and You know Wiggins great team guy. He gets salary dumped Lou doer Tired with shape the longest in your guy and shade and I want Lou to go I'm not saying shade's gonna have like hard feelings or anything, but trust me. They wanted to go But like lose as big a piece of the culture as anybody Aside from shade to to lose that culture and now it becomes like okay, hey, we're fighting for our spots We're fighting to you know to be able to stick around you know money's coming into to the equation. I think that's a loss It's a big cultural loss the body's going out the door and just kind of the business Being right there in your face. It's a big cultural loss for the thunder You know one thing I will say on the flip side Sam Prestig can absolutely look every guy and his eye and say we do right by our guys because he did put I'd say a Jonah Good situation with a pistons both Aaron Wiggins and Lou doer went to a very competitive situation a good situation with a hawk so You know, it's not like he sent these guys to Siberia. That's that's the one thing from a cultural standpoint That is at least still in their favor Regarding these moves. All right, I think cram gave the What did he give them give them a see something? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I here's the thing the heart and style extension was one of the best contracts of the song It worked. It worked so He's got to be plus Also, I didn't want it. I didn't like there's a couple of teams that we pick on all the time and I don't want it I didn't want to Pick on those teams anymore I understand I I respect that I respect that We said plenty about a couple of a couple teams at the bottom. I feel you all right Bobby Cool, man, I could have gone a lot of ways here I wanted to pick Portland just because they're owner. I think we're going to talk about them in a minute But I'll leave them off the Offer right now. I'm gonna pick New Orleans Uh, they got a team what they do they didn't do anything They they got they got a D which is comparable to my freshman year at Maris College. That was a number. That was Right up there. They hired Jamal Mosie who I like a lot, but And when 26 and 56 and 8 they're they're off season signing with Deandre Jordan And they said to you deal instead of one year deal Yeah, so I could be totally wrong three months for four months from now and Jamal Mosie could take this same team of Zion and Herb Jones and Trey Murphy and Jordan Poole and the Jante Murray and uh Cedeek Bay and You know this whole group Derqueen who they drafted a lot of year ago and And get them into and contending for a lottery position I could I could totally be wrong with it, but I just look at it when you're 26 and 56 It's probably not the right group to roll back And I just think it was also they had a lot of people out the door in terms of the front office I think the way that this front office is operating Is ill advised it's a very Insular front office like you know, you've got Joe Doomars, Troy Weaver and the bloodlines and that's That's the people that are in the mix and that's a tough way to go about business in the NBA Yeah They would sign a two-way guy today Great Yeah, I mean look uh I think they would argue that their improvement is that their team is hopefully going to be healthier I mean Probably will be they probably and the Jamal Mosie is a great hire And that He's going to help turn everything around You know they would argue that they made that change I would argue look at the Western conference and and you know you you the need to get better You need to do things to position yourself long-term to have a higher ceiling That's fair All right, so I have said stuff about the Trey Young contract and I am not going to go over that again That's the other one that I didn't want to I wasn't going to hit on Listen, I just want to say this Even if Trey Young has a first team all NBA season. I hope that he does It's not a commentary on him It's a commentary on paying him that under these circumstances. That's what's a commentary on But I really I'm not sure Bobby. Do we think that Detroit Pistons got better this summer? They didn't you said you set it up for them to get better the night of the second round of the draft You put you you set the expectation for them I don't remember yeah I don't what did I say I don't remember no listen they were in position to strike Yeah, this is after this was after decided not to strike last year before the trade deadline Which I didn't mind see what you got Um, but clearly they needed another big time Score they need a number two score number two creator Isaiah Joe I do like for them is as far as bringing in another shooting Yeah, they reassigned Kevin Hurtler and they brought in Isaiah Joe. I mean those are guys who are Without question two of the NBA's best shooters The Jalen Durham thing is going to probably end up with him on the roster and and some hard feelings that need to be smoothed over They traded away Isaiah Stewart Yeah, so they had a lot of flexibility They kind of kicked the ball down the field a little bit because they took John Collins Who's at the end of his goals on a one-year contract they basically swapped out Uh Tobias Harris for John Collins and if they could have gotten Tobias Harris for 15 million Which is what the spurs got him for then that would have been a terrific signing, but you know, it's just It's hard to get it does happen, but it's hard to get your players to come back to your team on big pay cuts Yeah, and and and the other thing is um if they Why my if they could have gotten norm pal in there actually would have liked to put them I would have liked it better if they could land a day a trade for a You know for quiet Oh, that would have been sticky obviously So yes, so they lost to bias Harris and carousel of earth they traded Isaiah Stewart Now they obviously believe Paul Reed will fin that role like, you know, I'm not I mean and and look Trajan Langdon's track record of making decisions with this team has been pretty good Um, but I just you know, and I think that they're just they're they're very cautious of What they're paying Kate cutting him What they're going to have to pay a sartonson and what they're going to have to pay jaylander and they're just very cautious I think of taking on another big salary and that may end up being a correct assessment of the situation, but I felt that they were a team that was the number one seed in the eastern conference and had a chance to seriously upgrade And I don't think they seriously upgraded maybe they would argue that they upgraded I think they You could argue they downgraded Well, I don't know if they would say that, but you could argue on but what they did at the trade deadline I compared to The thunder the year before the thunder with a championship where it's like okay Hey ahead of schedules and a one seed see how it plays out see see where your Holes are let guys prove what they are what they aren't and then you can be aggressive that next summer the thunder went out And signed as a heart and Stein and trade of rock screw so and got their two finishing pieces the pissants did not get their finishing pieces this year My concern Troid is just like if they were a marathon runner. They're at mariner. They're they've been stuck at mile 15 and everybody else is just coming up from behind And just you know like just based on what and listen they could say they got to the second round and to You know into a game seven and everything like that and they'll be better But it's the cost is gonna get up go up there. I mean when you add with cade and uh Durin and then Thompson like you're gonna these that's gonna be your three guys and they still have their picks to do something but I just thought that Where everyone else was going there was probably another move out there All right, let me just say something about a team I think a team that could swing either way I don't know if you guys have anybody in this category So what focus a little bit on the calves calves corner They got Donovan Mitchell into this contract extension, which is a certainly Something that was not a hundred percent guaranteed and they locked him down. It's a bunch of money Bobby Can still close my eyes and see You tweeted out the whiteboard Of Donovan's year by year contracts when I was agreed to in the last year was funny with that 272 is the number So I'm writing a factor fiction article and one of the things is about players giving back a little bit And you know victor and brunson mccale bridges guys like that and then but then you go through the guys that have you know Listen, it's their money. They have the right to do whatever they want But you know, this is you know, Donovan sign. I think this is the second time he signed extensions in two two years right 24 and in 26 and yeah the only the only concern like and I just I'd never think those contracts aid well I just know especially when there's 75.5 in last year but what's you what are you going to do what's your options well no yeah you got to you got to do it but I was a wind I mean don't have another wise was going to be an unrestricted phrase in next summer so you know that I don't think the cows wanted to be in that position so um so I felt that that was you know it wasn't like a resounding humongous victory but it was up it was a good I think a good moment for the franchise um maybe that'll end up not looking like that in four years but I think the calves are going to wager that they'll take the next two seasons of two three seasons of Donovan and understand that they may have to deal with it on the back end but certainly the guy's been all the NBA two years in a row you know he's in his entering his prime what are you going to do um James Harden opted out and they're going to come to an agreement with Harden that is going to keep them out of the second apron so they did lose Dean Wade and they did lose Keon Ellis and I will just say that you know one of the things that's interesting I wrote about this a little bit earlier this week on espn.com about how so many teams are are dodging aprons that now it's a whole thing that you can evaluate the apron dodgers you know like I was talking to a GM this week and they were like well you know if you look at what what Boston had to do to get out of the apron last year Oklahoma City did better to get out of the apron this year that's a whole subcategory seven uh yes seven second round picks to trade three guys they didn't have to attach anything they were getting stuff back right so what I'm saying is that's now a whole sub it's a whole subcategory yes so the fact that like the calves didn't have an added anybody but the calves haven't added anybody right but they're going to bring back all their core pieces probably have an added body and have gotten right but they have I'm and this is when we're judging we're judging now I'm saying the calves haven't added anybody and they're out of the second apron they didn't have to trade away starters they didn't have to you know you know they they didn't resign um role players and it's going to hurt him a little bit they need some guys to step up so but like the thing with Cleveland is if LeBron comes it changes your whole viewpoint of it and if LeBron doesn't come I think there's still a move to be made you know correct me from wrong but part of the uh logic letting Dean Wade goes like Jalen Tyson's proven he's ready for for more well they hope he's proven he's ready for more or at least he's giving you hope he's ready for more there are 24 first shot pick um so the calves could swing either way on this I think so um all right so to be continued we didn't mention the heat is a big winner despite the fact they pulled off the honesty oh I mean that that is a you know obviously that was a big one so cram cram didn't give them an A word cram I don't know do you know I don't know i don't know he gave me a beat he gave me a beat tough grade and well there's everything that they traded for Yannis which was a bunch of trade of draft app draft assets and Tyler hero um you know Killeleware so you know one of their probably their second best player and their best prospect and they lost Norman Powell to free agency that's right point that's a good point I do like the harder way signing Bobby you know the guy hit 223s or something last year for the nuggets and they just needed shooting yeah so and by the way like this is another team that could swing like if they don't if they get Lebron you I don't think it's going to be an A I don't want to speak for exact but I think it's going to be an A if they don't get Lebron they might be able to get to Marta Rosen you know we'll see you know that would be a decent fit for them so they have they have three roster spots I looked up I looked up cramp hold on according to his LinkedIn Washington University in St. Louis that's what he good academic school it's cool are you going there next on your you're going to drive across the 70 now like like you said we're looking at at schools that have some some good athletics programs even though she's done an athlete all right well I wish it's you're really I'm necessary shot at Washington watch you um let me circle back to Miami in real quick I would I would I hope hopefully one day Pat Riley does his own podcast because I could listen to him tell stories like you know he went on Dan Labatar and went back and rewind the clock with Lebron and all that stuff and what's it's amazing and Brian you know this and you lived it is the 2010 when these guys all did those sign-in trades and what they had to give up to get them you know the six first out picks where they could have basically just signed them into cap space and they could have you know back then the rules were a lot different sign-in trades benefited you you can have more years all the states rules have now changed but what those got what Miami had to give up to get those guys in the sign-in trade and which eventually been them in the rear end because Lebron left early anyway well I have posited the concept that the calves started getting Lebron James back the day after the decision because the day after the decision Chris Grant the general manager at the time somehow remember what Dan Gilbert where Dan Gilbert's head was at I was gonna say what the letter published was that the day of the day the day after the date the night of within an hour okay if it wasn't within an hour was within 90 minutes okay and in the morning remember it was like in the evening was like eight o'clock at night in the morning the calves got a sign-in trade where they got two first two seconds and I agree that the first that the heat sent them were deemed to be not very valuable first well they traded one of the firsts in the package for Kevin Love when they got Lebron back so obviously a lot of things happened it wasn't like that was the key I'm just saying that it was it was a very responsible thing to do for the calves to get Lebron get get assets for Lebron like if if I ever said to you if I went to you to even a very good strong NBA fan and I say was Lebron James ever traded they would say no in fact he was he was traded for two first route picks and two second route more hoop collective podcast after this so anyway okay I want to talk at this point about by the way do you guys have any other swing teams you want you want no well all right in the last week there have been two absolutely incredible stories written about NBA I want I can't say NBA owners but NBA leadership and be a girl with no I can't say that but definitely one governor but I can't say who the other person was because I don't know one was written by Motoko Rich I hope I'm saying that correctly who was a writer for the New York Times and I know I sent this story to both of you because it's one of my favorite stories I have read this year this is a potential borderline legendary story Jackson do you have any idea what I'm talking about it's about an NBA owner to Jackson says yes in the chat Jackson Jackson's always on top of it the viewers and the reader letters can't can't see I was hoping he would see what's happening all right there was a legendary story the New York Times that came out a couple of days ago on Tillman Frittita in his role as ambassador to Italy he is is he acting as the governor right now McMahon I mean his unpatchic runs the rockets on a day-to-day basis you know working hand in hand or or fell stone so Patrick is the daily ownership presence by the way Zach Kram gave the rockets a B plus Bobby he did they didn't do much I mean all the Tarias the signing was really good and Marcus smart yeah that's good good business yeah they dumped Dorian Finney Smith a costume three seconds yeah yeah yeah anyway Tillman Frittita has been you know he's been focused on on you know being the ambassador to Italy he's been focused on Chilan as Yacht in Italy so this story the reporter and the photographer are welcomed onto the Yacht and give a day in the life of Tillman living in in the summer not a day in life Chilan a day in the life of the the US ambassador to Italy yes the the headline of the story was as Trump scraps with Maloney who was the prime minister of of Italy his envoy to Italy is at sea which is an incredible thing and so I don't even know where to begin but I highly encourage anybody to go find a story and read it's this Tillman channel they call Pensive on the Yacht in a nice little sport coat with like this beautiful background I mean come on man listen if there was a driving range on that thing Well, there's something there's something got for you get a stop on the yacht in the in the first paragraph it is described He's on a months-long tour of Italy's coastline aboard his $450 million super yacht And then and the next paragraph it describes it is a 384 foot 7 deck yacht This thing's not just a yacht. It is a super yacht a 384 foot 7 deck yacht And it is gorgeous Hot tuts odd that offers facials and pedicures Movie screening room putting green multiple bars and two helicopters What do you need to help that does room well that reminds me of one of the all-time my all-time favorite stories about NBA owners and It was a story about the late Paul Allen who was the owner of the Portland Trailblazers He in the summer sometimes like to go to Antarctica and His boat he had no he had a 400 foot super yacht that I think had like scientific equipment on it and I remember reading a story about how There had unfortunately been a helicopter accident the boat had been sent down to southern tip of Argentina Paul Allen had flown down there and he was leading he was going to lead this expedition to to Antarctica in the summer and He had flown down and landed in this this city in the bottom tip of Argentina and Helicopter was dispatched from the yacht to come to the airport to pick him up and Unfortunately, the helicopter crashed into the ocean now was I recall it was okay the pilot and everybody on the helicopter survived and was rescued and was okay And then there was just this line in the story that said the yachts backup helicopter and then picked up Mr. Allen and took them out to the So which the question is what happens when your yacht's helicopter crashes into the ocean? Yes, you use the backup. You know what happens if you're if you're starting point or pulls a hand You think that helicopters came with the yacht. They'd buy them separately. I'm sure it's separate so So Tillman is incredible in this story they seem with these quotes and he said that he had recently spoken to both President Trump and Prime Minister Maloney Georgia Maloney and He said quote. I listened to him both. No, I got both. I do better. Don't you do I listen to him both He said speaking in his heavy Texas twang and they both make sense to me Somebody said that that's how I was with you in bontops that that that's how I used to say that he also says that doesn't affect my Relationship or the American Italian relationship Yes But there's Yes, how many people ever get to come on a boat like this People love successful people Everybody wants to be successful and anybody who says they don't is just lying to you Yeah, it's like being successful is cool. I don't know I don't know that that's got a whole lot to do with the role you're in as far as Helping things, but okay, otherwise the sixth yacht that he's given the name boardwalk He is sit Bobby. Do you hear that? The sixty six. No, yeah, six the yacht. He's given the name boardwalk, which is a shout-out. I'm sure to his hometown of Galveston Okay, so he at one point in the in the story. He gets off the boat and goes to this little town I can't pronounce this town. I would botch it But it's a small town and the the mayor is summoned to meet with him and the mayor meets with him Actually, I think this point he meets with the bishop and he They meet with the bishop and they talk about it. I'm the ambassador America, whatever there's all these dignitaries around him And he gives him an engraved silver dish, Bobby It's nice and it says this has my name on it. I don't want you to forget me What else did he give them I don't remember an Italian translation of his book shut up and live Listen, oh, that's right. Of course. Yes By the way This is a paraphrase here by the writer, but he says the way mr. Fatina sees it given Italians a glimpse of how the 0.1 percent live helps to make the kind of people to people connections that Ambassadors are supposed to foster It's just amazing. It's amazing And it talks about how he and his wife are just you know going up and down the Italian Riviera stopping in towns and spreading The the American way He is obnoxiously rich and You know very proud of it Now I will say this if you have a conversation with Tillman for Tito You're probably gonna end up like laughing and smiling. He is a good. No, I am I am not I am not making fun I've this story as I'm this is a story. These are his quotes on the record. I'm just putting them out I'm making a fun of it a little bit because it is like a cartoon character But anyway, stillman is he is a character. He is an all-time character Anyway, the the sign-off quote is is just very honest. I loved it and He he said quote it wouldn't matter to me who the president was Because he's he's like I want to come back to be the the the ambassador even if someone else is a president a few years I don't know as maybe it'll be a 70 out by then maybe maybe 500 feet. Maybe there'll be a third helicopter He said that he has no desire to run for elected office himself. Why? Because quote there is no job that I could hold and be on this boat And listen, this is this is a man at large at sea and In the NBA offseason. It's But as far as the rockets go like Tillman's obviously still the final word, but he's not involved He's not like I think they're the concern went till and bought the rockets from Some people including by the way some people who worked for the rockets at the time Was that he was gonna be Meddling that he was gonna be Cuban-esque that he was gonna be a lot like we've seen in Phoenix with With Matt Ispia Untilman learned some tough lessons early on. I mean boy Did he learn when that Chris Paul trade blow up in his face? you know and and he got he's gotten out of the way and Again his son Patrick is Really in charge of the franchise But he very much is aligned with with her fell stone and in by the way Patrick along with Raphael were the one who were really Responsible for talking Tillman into that brutal painful long-term rebuild That Tillman didn't want any of and he had to be talked into on it to stick and with on a frequent base So I remember I wrote a story. I think this was this after the second year of the rebuild. I wrote a story Or I went down. I visited with Patrick and you know and and and Visited with with her fell Oh, no, I visited her fell and I had a call. I don't know if this was the fifth or I don't know if there's this shot of the preview shot But I remember I was talking to Tillman about that About the rebuild and he made a comment about how he was looking at the what is it the tower bridge in London? Just hanging out on the out back then. So you know the man likes his yachts. Listen man. If you got it Live with it man. They've got to flaunt it. Yeah, listen. Let us see how to 0.1% lives, baby Yeah, by the way speaking of Mark Cuban He just bought into a team coming to Vegas. Did you know that the opening or the shouldn't be lost vacancies? I saw that up up there I actually did not see that Well, you've been touring colleges in the southeast and Your old friend Mark Cuban. I guess you're in danger of being banned from Las Vegas aescapes Well, my daughter does plan to apply to Indiana as well. I don't want Cuba to know that because it might make Yeah, he does have a history of banning McMahon's he does that is true Okay, so the second story is not as fun, but just as amazing and that is a story written by Bill Orm of the Portland Oregonian About the blazer's situation Which is getting worse by the day. We talked about it about a week ago in McMahon you and I Yeah, it's getting worse by the day the the rhetoric between the Politicians and the blazer's organization is deteriorating and Bill Orm Got a hold of what he calls a top blazer's official Okay, I don't know what that means, but the freedom with which This individual speaks with is with the kind of thrust that leads you to believe It's a very very high a blazer's official and and it and that it was certainly with the full blessing of Tom Dundin It's it's spoken with a lot of authority. Let's just put it that way I don't know who this top blazer's official is but it's dirty with a lot of authority and there are some Incredible quotes attributed to this top blazer's official in this story. I think it's important You know, there's been a lot of back and forth and national nations that have happened here. And if you're a blazer stand, maybe you follow them. There's no way that I could completely summarize them here. But I will just say that on Monday, the blazer's Board of Governors, which is essentially, I should say Board of Directors, which is essentially their owners have a meeting. And I have no idea what's gonna come out of that meeting, but it could be the Declaration of All-Out War. But this is a response to the city sending the blazers what they wanted in the lease. They want the blazers to sign a lease to get the money to renovate their arena. And the quotes about this are tremendous. Let me get them and I wanna get them exactly correct. Quote, why is the city sending this thing, knowing we're not gonna agree to it, said the official who expressed particular antipathy toward the unionized workforce and annual payment provisions when they're in there. They want there to be unionized workforce and they want the blazers to make annual three million dollar payments. - What does antipathy mean? - They don't like it, he expressed the opposite of support for the idea that they would have to use unionized labor. Good war, you went to Montana. - Further quotes, quote, the city of Portland doesn't even recognize they got a sweetheart deal and they're making it complicated. And if they wanna say no, if they don't want us, then that's fine. - Oh well, there you go. I mean, and then what else have the blazers, what else has blazers ownership done this week? - Well, they fired there. - Like, the claim of the TV group, right? I mean, they, I mean, pretty much. - I'm not done with the quotes. I'm not done with the quotes. We can talk about that in a second. - All right. - Quote, it's not like we lose money moving the team, the team official said, we might spend money, but we won't lose money. It might be okay to spend a billion dollars on a relocation fee at the value of the team doubles. Of course, you would do that. This is like, they said it's okay for you to say this in the paper. And isn't there something to do about them not having a Jersey sponsor in the only team? And I think ranking. - Yeah, they complained that it was complained about the lack of sponsorship, local sponsorship and stuff. But that's not too small. And they also said that this deal is going to only-- - The target socks is what they're saying. - They're like, if you don't want us fine, we're going to move. And if we pay a billion dollars, I mean, like, this is on the record. I mean, it's not quoted, but it's on the record. And this is someone who very clearly is speaking for the organization. Bobby, I can't remember this. Bobby, I can't, I mean, I have to go back and look, there's no way that this was ever said coming out of the leadership of the mouth of the Seattle. - No, and that's what I was going to say. It's like, I need to go back and look at that. I don't think it was like this. - I mean, there was, at one point, Aubrey McClendon, who was, who was since passed away. He was Clay Bennett's like friend and like partner. There was an email that was sent in between the owners where they basically were saying, okay, we got the team. Now let's move it, essentially. And that was seen as, you know, in, you know, in flammatory. But that was a private email that got, that got released. This, this is on the record in the newspaper. And they get special and the market sucks. And we don't want to be in anyway. - Well, there's rarely. - This relationship has not been good from the beginning. Like, sooner, like there wasn't like, there was a period of time, like a, and the introsion when you, there's a grace period in the beginning, but man, there's been one after another besides what Brian just talked about. But, you know, all going all the way back to April, right? With playoffs and travel, who traveled and who didn't travel. And certainly the, you know, McClendon, he's kind of, like there's been so many and if maths lay off. And, and, and constant like the rent of, hey, if you don't give us what we want, we're gone. He's made no attempt to ingratiate himself with the, with the community in Portland, with the trailblazers fan base, which is, you know, a very passionate fan base unique corky called the passionate for sure. You know, he's, he's a complete outsider and doesn't want to be a Portland insider. I didn't want to be part of Portland community. And honestly, what he did, like, what he did with a very popular, broadcast crew is, you know, it's like he's actively trying to make the fan experience worse. Right. So, so their broadcast crew, a lot of whom had been there for a lot of years. They let the radio voices go. Kevin Calabro, who's been with them for 10 years. Kevin Calabro was the voice of the sonics, the sonics moved. He became an ESPN. He called games for ESPN college and an MBA is for ESPN. He actually left ESPN because he wanted to call games for a team again. And with the blazers job came open. And I remember talking to him when he left. He was like, yeah, this is a tough decision. And, you know, in some people would say that this was a step back. But I love being the voice of a team. And I'm going to go do it. And he loved living in Portland. And they offered him a contract. He wasn't fired. They offered him a contract that he said on the record was, quote, sub-prime. Now, why would he say sub-prime, Wendy? Because Tom Dundin was known for giving sub-prime auto loans. That's one of his business come as businesses. Yeah, that was a shot across the bow. He's got a way of words. Our guy Tom Havishro, his contract wasn't renew. He was like the stats guru on the broadcast. But again, it was a very popular broadcast crew, whatever. Fans like it. Nobody cares. Well, this thing is, this thing is where we are in. I'm afraid like, you know, just the first or second quarter of this fight. But I'm just saying, you don't come across stories like Tellment for Tito going on and on and on about his yacht and, you know, bringing a photographer with him. There's video too in that story. And him like sitting, by the way, him and his sitting in the yacht, like with his everything sprawled out. Like, you just don't see this every day, okay? You don't see quotes like this from a top team official like this every day. You think we could get Tellment to let us do a live show from the yacht? Hey, you're the rocket's connection. Let's. I'll see what I can do. Do you think he's taking the yacht to Macau for the rockets, Mavericks exhibition games? The Mavericks and they just announced their schedule. It was previously announced, but they announced their schedule last couple of days. Will Tellment take the yacht to China? I kind of look up a map. That's a. I don't think he is. If you're going through a war zone to get there, I'm, I don't actually want you to look it up. Maybe there's another boat in, in that area of the in Asia. Maybe he's got enough. Well, that reminds me, Bobby, that reminds me, Bobby of one of the, you remember the 60 minutes profile on your former boss, Mikhail Prograf, Jetskin, right, off that thing. Yeah. I think who was the, was a woman, right, wasn't it Leslie Stahl, who did the 60 minutes profile? And if I'm not mistaken, and I didn't prepare for this, I'm just saying, she's walking through his house in Moscow or his apartment or something. And there's a, there's a huge model of his yacht, like sitting there on a table. And he says, this is my yacht. And she goes, oh, and she's like, well, where do you keep it? He goes, to be honest with you, I don't know where it is. Miss placed it. I would say this about my former owner, that probably out of one of the greatest things that I did at the Nets was the ability to have, we practice at the Kremlin in front of the gym. What was the worst thing that doesn't happen, that, that doesn't happen every day. Winners and losers. What was the worst thing you do with the Nets? Right. Okay. For Garnett. Yeah. All right. That's all we got here. We can't wait to LeBron announces and we'll be back with emergency podcasts. So thank you to all our producers. Mark Miles Tucker, Jackson, thank you to Bobby and to McMahon. Thank you for watching. Let's see in the hoop collective this week. I don't know what we'll see. Maybe it'll be next week. Adios, amigos. (upbeat music)