66: Biggest Mistakes We've Made While Scaling Our Cash-Based Physical Therapy Practices

Lost in insecure, you found me, you found me lying on the floor, surrounded, surrounded What you have to weigh, where were you, where were you, just a little lay, you found me, you found me Oh man, that's a fray, right? The fray, dude, I had it on in the car the other day and then Kat, it was like, switch, I hate the fray, it brings up poor middle school memories. I was like, yeah girl, all right, poor middle school memories. Yeah, but they're like triggers some shit back in her middle school. It was like, yeah, it was like an angsty middle school era that I like don't want to remember, I'm like damn, I like fray. She didn't have enough money to go shop at clears and hot topic. Yeah, you know, some Arab hotel or American Eagle, American Eagle. Oh man, American Eagle is coming back, I think I feel like I've seen bits of like American Eagle and Habrikromby, a lot of their stuff, they've kind of like made a pretty big pivot from like the last like you know when we were in middle school, and to kind of like they have something like pretty good like fashionable stuff now, which is like super minimalistic. Like good, good, good, good. You know, Habrikromby is a public trade at stock. They are, oh shit, I don't know what to say. I think which is insane since, wow, 1996 they're a public traded, but dude, it's right now at 93 bucks, but last year hit a high of like 175, which is insane. Yeah, they're honest like I could have swear I saw something where they were like, like over the last few years, they definitely kind of like come up and everything. I've been, I've been guys, you got to get your financial literacy game up, just been called DCA dollar cost average a little bit every month put into the stock market. Okay, go, boo, S&P 500 and the rest I put a little bit into Google every month. Dude, I listen to it eight hour podcast on Google. On Google, oh shit, give us a quick spark note summary. It's, they, they are savages like they just saw trends coming up took massive risk, but like everything that is in Google's ecosystem was like an acquisition from like another company. So like they bought a company that did like Google maps like they bought they didn't make any of these things from like to get something with like Android. They purchased YouTube, they were losing I think $4 billion a year for the first eight years and now YouTube produces them about 500 billion a year. Yeah, dude, that's insane. Like willing to just like stick in the game and lose that much money, only to like, hey, like having faith in yourself that it's going to play on the end. Like damn. It just talks about their competition with Apple and Microsoft throughout like the past two decades where they're doing what they're doing how they like were able to create like their own mode and like it's crazy to so much respect for Google. And it talks even like Google AdWords, they purchased a company that was doing ads and stuff on the website like back in the day and then they turned that into Google AdWords. It's just a super fascinating story. It's from a choir podcast. Okay. I highly recommend it because I think it actually teaches you a ton about the internet like and where we are today and where like AI and stuff is going. But do companies like Google you can't bet against them. They just have so many different streams of revenue, but ad paid advertising is their highest. I got one right. So the reason why they can beat everyone is because they have so much money being spent on paid advertising. They just keep acquiring different companies and some of them become like really, really substantial. Some of them are like, you know, duds, but they keep taking on risk. And I think that was my biggest takeaway. It's like they have they haven't stopped growing. Like they were literally just a search engine. And then they created like Google docs, Google sheets and all these things to compete with Microsoft because Microsoft was enterprise and Google's like, fuck that. We will help you collaborate on a online. You know, when they had like Yahoo male and hotmail Google is like, I'll give you this much gigabyte of free mail because back in the day, you can only hold like 50 emails and then your box is full. Google was like, fuck that. So they have like billions and billions of users on all of their platforms and maps. I was just like, yeah. Get a few Google stocks every month. Let's go. Yeah. I'm a big Google guy, man. Like, yeah, we run a ton of stuff off of Google workspace, you know, Google sheets, Excel, all that bit. And then, yeah. Have you used much of their Gemini AI? I'm making a switch soon to Gemini or I can't what the other one is. Yeah. I started playing around with cloud. Man, cloud's got some pretty good coffee. Yeah. Chad GBT, it seems to generic now. So you can, yeah. You can almost tell when someone's used Chad GBT. Yeah. Yeah. So I like it just for kind of like kind of bouncing ideas back and forth a little bit. But yeah, like I like the Gemini primarily because like if you're looking up like a new place to go to, it'll basically kind of like do like a very quick like AI summary of all the reviews, stuff on their website and everything. Just come and give it to you. I'm like a very quick, you know, like five sentence phrase. I'm trying to, I think this is the hardest thing right now. It's like is the mental. I think we were talking about this off camera is mentally getting all the scripts that you need to say for content creation for ads and all that stuff. Recording it is easy if someone just deliberately just grab, but it's like, okay, how do I fine tune the copy? How do I do this? And have you looked into get poppy? Like POP, PY. Is that a more image generation generating? This is like you can upload a bunch of different creators onto this that you want to get inspired by. And they essentially like, hey, what kind of like tonality do you like? What kind of phrasing do you like? You upload your favorite creators. You can even upgrade upload all of your previous content. And it starts to help you generate scripts in your tone and voice. Oh, sick. I'll have to check it out. It's probably paid right? It's like you probably have like a couple different different plans similar to chat and then clawed. Yeah, I visual. Oh, sick. Okay. Dude, I'm about to play around with the yeah, it's like I'm using a lot of our copy that we use in our ads. We I'm really just kind of feeding into chat. But yeah, kind of like what you're saying. It's like it's okay. It's not great. But which is why we've kind of recently switched over to clawed. But yeah, I'll check this out. Yeah, 400 a year. That's kind of hilarious. There's like no monthly subscriptions 400 a year. Love that. Yeah. I mean, shit. Like if I'm paying 400 bucks a year off the bat, I'm definitely gonna use trying to get my money's worth and just like use the shit out of it. No, but they had a great track record on there. Yeah, I recognize one of the creators on there. The Felt Vanessa Lau. Cool. What does she do? She's just like a YouTube creator. She's a she's an Asian girl out and I think California, but she recently started a boba brand. With her. Yeah, like bubble tea. Let's go. Yeah. But yeah, so she's kind of just like documenting a lot of like K like where are they sourcing their or you know, milk tea bubbles from going through different like tasting creations for their different types of flavors of the milk tea. Yeah. Yeah. You know, speaking of like building a company and sampling different boba, you're obviously going to have some good recipes. You'll have some bad recipes. And I think that's a great segue into today's talk of breaking down our business and some of the mistakes that we've made along the way because you know, we haven't always cooked the best recipes. Sometimes we've been cooked. You guys are seeing like kind of like the almost close to final reiterations, but been multiple reiterations and pivot along the way for sure. I don't I don't even think we're close to a final iteration. Every single year. I can. Where it's it's shit. What are I'm probably on motion rank 6.0 version now? Peter and I were just listening to a podcast by this guy Jeremy Haynes and he talks about how every you know, iteration. He just thinks about like Jeremy 1.0 2.0 3.0 what kind of actions and habits is that person have. And how can I emulate that now so I can keep leveling up and I'm probably similar to you. I'm probably like moment 5.0. You know, like it's been five directions. You have to keep like updating and like constantly switching out something like the data, the hard drive shit, right? You know, I think a lot of like computers like you always got to switch out like the the brands and the CPUs and stuff and same thing. It's just like when it comes to business like you always got to constantly be updating your processes. Because like shit like what works five years ago definitely does not work today and you know, I know five years from now. I hope we're doing something different than what we currently are doing today because we're still doing the same shit today. Yeah, big mistakes off top of head. Probably one of the first things is not establishing KPIs from the get go. I think at the very beginning, especially with my first couple of employees, I was just trying to figure stuff out along the way. And so it was almost like the law, law, the West where people had my employees on, front desk, I had PT's, but they had no idea to measure whether or not they were doing a good job or whether or not they were doing a bad job. And I did a very poor job of managing and setting expectations on what good looks like. And I think that's one of the benefits of having very clear cut communications and KPIs that people can kind of like hold themselves accountable towards. But yeah, one of the-- that's probably one of the biggest things. Just like, we're kind of going along as we are. And all of a sudden, halfway through the year, I was like, hey, guys, we're going to be starting to implement in some KPIs. This is what a KPIs stands for. And then these are the KPIs that you're going to be responsible for. And of course, when you kind of-- people don't change. And that's kind of one of the things that I've realized is just whenever you implement in something new, there's always going to be kind of a little bit of kind of like a slow process, especially if like employees are kind of used to things for a certain period of time. And so you kind of think about it. If you're a PT and you're just like, hey, I'm seeing clients, but it's OK if I don't maybe book a follow-up visit or it doesn't really matter how many visits I see. It's just like, hey, I'm getting paid the same regardless. And then all of a sudden, hey, they just aren't requirement for like, hey, how many visits I should be seeing in order to be magized like productive. And if I'm not being productive, hey, where are some things I should be doing in the meantime? What's a good conversion on sales? All of a sudden, oh shit, we ought to do sales. Well, what's a good conversion percentage? Was it back averted percentage? OK, if I'm not converting out, where it should be, we have to be doing things now. And so I think a lot of times, whenever we start implementing these new changes, people don't communicate that problem at the beginning. People are kind of like drawn, taken a back a little bit. And so what I realized is with all of our new employees that we bring on, we're very clear up with what the expectations are. And so people come in with no problems at all. But it's really kind of just like, yeah, at the very beginning my first couple of employees, when we're trying to implement all these changes in, like KPIs, having them track stuff is just like, well, what is all this? But at the same time, it's like shit. Like at the beginning, what do you know? Right? You don't really know anything. You're just kind of figuring shit out. But I would say, yeah, if you guys are kind of listening to this, make sure you have very clear cut defined roles and responsibilities for every single role within your department. For your front desk, for your SDRs, for your clinic directors, for your PT's, what does good look like? What are their roles and responsibilities they are responsible for? And then what are the KPIs that they are held accountable for? From there, now we can really like, hey, if you're on track for KPIs, or even if you're exceeding KPIs, awesome. Like, how can we reward you for that? So people need like guardrails to be able to figure out, hey, like, are we doing well within our role? That way, should we be eligible for a promotion? Should we be eligible? Should we get paid more? Or maybe if we're not doing good, okay, cool. Like what do some things that we need to be doing in the meantime in order to help boost us up to whatever the KPIs are, so that the company has set moving forward. But a lot of times, like at the beginning, especially for the first couple of people that we bring on, we're still trying to figure out what the role looks like. I think, yeah, we're probably on our fifth or sixth reiteration for the roles and responsibilities for the PTs. I feel like we finally kind of slowly started to figure it out. A good example of something that we are currently in the process of refining is going to be it for our closer. We just brought out a closer two weeks ago. She just started it and we're still trying to figure out how do we really streamline this position moving forward. And so I think at the beginning, when you have, if you have somebody who's coming in into the company for the first time, and it's a brand new role, I would almost ask them for a little bit of grace. It's like, hey, I'm still trying to figure this out. I think I have an idea of what this role entails, as well as what the KPIs are going to be associated for this role. But in a couple of months, based on how things go, some of this might change. Is this making sure are you OK with this? And if so, hey, if you have any feedback, please, let me know ahead of time. Now we can really try and figure this out. I want you to be successful. I want this company to be successful. So let's collaborate together to make sure we do everything we need to to get us where we need to be. I think if you're kind of open with that from the beginning, people are much more willing to be like, hey, well, business wasn't necessarily what I signed up for. And I think to say, no, hey, this is a little bit of a newer company. And you guys are still establishing roots in everything. There is a little bit of wiggle room for different roles, responsibilities, et cetera. Because yeah, at the beginning, we had our PT responsible for sales, marketing, and climate fulfillment. And then now all the response before is just climate fulfillment. And we have a completely different person who's solely responsible for organic local marketing. We have another person who's solely responsible for generating leads from ads. Then now we have a person who's solely responsible for POC conversion rates for in person. So I think yeah, at the beginning, everyone's wearing a shit some of the different hats because they have to. It's such a small company. But if they know, hey, our goal is to grow consistently year over year. And as we grow, we will be able to bring on more and more support staff. And that's where we can kind of slowly start to kind of delineate and readjust maybe some of the KPIs at the beginning. But definitely yeah, like make sure you get KPIs set from the get go people understand, hey, like this is what I'm striving for. Yeah, I think one of the biggest mistakes may was like communicating what the KPIs are without having like, hey, this is how a core relates to the health of the company. This is how a core relates to patient outcomes. This is how it correlates to like your future and like where we're headed so that we can grow so that you can grow. Oftentimes like when you're just saying, like, hey, you're responsible for XYZ, don't really explain the why behind the numbers. You end up having people thinking like, OK, we're just doing this so it can make Peter more money. It's like, no, no, yes, obviously don't or it's going to make money. That's the reason why we have a business. But at the end of the day, it's like, we can't grow. You can't grow almost a company grows. So if the company grows, then we can create more opportunities for you. And these are all the metrics and how it correlates to growth. For me, one of the first things that comes up in my head was I spent a shift on a time building out a app. And the app was going to provide like monthly training, rehab protocols, and all of these things, information, paint science, and all that stuff. It was $30 a month, $300 for the year. And we ran it for a solid three months. I think I still have it on my phone. You can't download it on the app store anymore. But it was called any moment app. OK. So the branding was like, well, you'll be ready for a hashtag any moment, right? We had it built out. We had-- I think we had six different Ketaba programs that taught you all the basic stuff, all the way to the higher level stuff. We had three lower body programs, both that three upper body programs built out. Kristina had a library of like 40 different explanations of miscellaneous things, like Ketaba movements, how to rehab stuff, like progressions, regressions. And then I had hired a strength coach to do the monthly programs. And we had two different tiers of monthly programs, one for people that were just kind of getting going. And one for people that are more intermediate. Message board, all that stuff. After three months, just shut it down. Because what I realized was like, one, I was trying to do something just strictly for money. I'm like, oh, this would be great. Passive income. But it wasn't like the thing that I actually wanted to do. And it was way more difficult to get-- if we get 100 people assigned up for $30 a month, that is $3,000 a month. It is way easier to just find one lead that will convert to a higher plan of care than $3,000. And because the churn rate starts to happen, and we saw that people assigned up for a month, drop off the next month. I just didn't have the bandwidth to fix that. I wasn't super excited to build out these programs. And everything just took away from the main business. And this was the first year of building Moment Fist Go Thereby. We had launched that by the end of the first year. And I was like, damn, one, it's a good learning lesson. I don't distract yourself with things that you're not passionate about. But also just made the offer so confusing. Because some people were like, hey, do we go in for a physical therapy? Can I just try this app for a little while? And then some people would have paid $30 a month for an app. Sometimes they're expecting a lot from that $30 a month. So after about 15 people were like, I think this is it. Sorry guys, refund money, things like that. And we're just just moving forward. Yeah, well, I think at the time too, if we were talking about, hey, you were doing this at the beginning of Moment, I think that was the time for 2000 to 2022 where so many people were developing apps. And that was the hottest thing. But I think it's just like, it's so hard when you have all these shiny objects around you that you could definitely pull the trigger on. But it's so hard to stay focused on just the bread and butter of like, hey, what are we really good at? And I think I had a very similar situation where there was one point probably about three years ago where after people had finished up their plan and care with us, we were transitioning them on to training and stuff. And then we started doing some semi-private, small group personal training. And at the time it was really just for like some of our clients and I think we had like maybe 10 to 12 people in there. And I was like, "All right, cool. Like this is going to be like pretty good. Like what happens if we start to like advertise outside of our patients and really try and turn this into kind of like more kind of like a, you know, like a personal training gym studio, like another stream of vertical income coming through." And so we signed up and worked with Jim Launch for like a full year really to try and like really build this up. And man, like there was just like so many different like headaches associated with that because you're running lead gym. We brought on a trainer specifically just to kind of manage that fitness department. We brought on a bunch of leads. But then from there, like these leads have to show up for their appointments. And then from there, when they do show up for their appointments, we're trying to sell them on like a $1,200, $6 week transformation challenge. And so we got it to a point where I think it was like generating around like 12 to 15 K per month, just from small group personal training. But there was like all this additional kind of like time consumption and like headache in terms of like managing it. And I was like, man, honestly, like I don't even really, like I'm not as passionate about like trying to get somebody to lose like 30, 40 pounds of weight as much as I am just trying to get somebody like out of back pain. You know? And so for me, it was just like, man, like we ended up basically chopping it off. And we did it ran for like a solid year and a half. And then we kind of just like ended up closing that department. It's like we don't even have small group personal training anymore as our as our back and offer. It's really just hey, like they continue on with like one-on-one training with our PT's. But it's just a much more simple, simple offer. Because otherwise, yeah, like after they finished their initial plan and care, it's like we had to try and try and train the PT's to be like, all right, cool. Like this is the type of person that you would want to sell into like small group personal training. And they would need to have another meeting with the small with the person who's managing that to kind of see, all right, do they want to come in like three times a week? Do they want to come in one time a week? And so it just it wasn't as streamlined as it could have been. But I think it's just like at the time. It's like, oh, cool. Here's another really sweet, like vertical revenue stream that we could, you know, you know, and we could do to kind of generate money. And on paper, it seems like a really good fit, right? You kind of cross with her back and forth. But yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's like we ended up ultimately just like doubling down on physical therapy. And then yeah, it's just been really good. And ever since it's so much cleaner from our offer standpoint, you know, our appointment setters in our Instagram DMs, you're not trying to figure out, hey, are you here for weight loss right here for like pain and performance really just just people here for physical therapy. And also to it's kind of what you're saying about like the overall ticket of the offer that we're selling. It's like we get all these leads in like we tried some on like a $900, maybe $1,200, $1,500, you know, six-week transformation challenge. But we can, you know, just sell one person into high-tech physical therapy for $3,600. And it's just like, it's way easier to just like stick to what we're already good at. Well, we already have really good proof of concept for it. You know, anytime we have somebody who wants to come in for like smoker person training, it's like, hey, we have all these other gyms that we have really good relationships with, hey, let's just go over there and check these people out. I think yeah, at the beginning, when you're really trying to like get your feet underneath you, there's so many ways you can make money. You can, you know, bring on like a massage therapist. You can bring on, hey, well, what happens if somebody wants to suplease space out of you, you know, try a set up like a red light therapy like offer. It's like you have all these like little miscellaneous shit when you like, and you run the numbers at the end of the day, it's like, it's not going to move the needle that much for your business. I think we all get guilty of that in terms of like, hey, like, what's the shiny thing that I could do to kind of like make my business even more appealing, you know, add on new offers and everything. But if you look at like a lot of the really successful businesses, they just stick to one thing that they're really, really good at. And they just like go all in on that one thing. Um, dude, do you like a, you like soup dumplings? Have you heard of din typhong? Yep. Yeah, din typhong. All they do is just soup dumplings. And I think like for every single one of their location, they do like a shit. I think like 15 to 20 mil per location, whereas like the average cheesecake factory, which is kind of like the comfortable square footage is probably like I think like three to five mil per year. And like you look at the menu, shit, like cheesecake factory's got like four to 50 different like million pasta options. And cheesecake options too. Then you go to din typhong. And so I, hey, I'm here for soup dumplings. That's what they're known for. And that's what they sell a shit tonneau. So I think yeah, if anything, like it's just over the years, just like art, anything that isn't, you know, high-tech physical therapy, getting people out of pain back to being moon active, I'm going to say no to. And you took a, I remember you took a low-nail right for gym lunch. Yeah, dude, gym lunch is a fucking like like it was like 35k. Yeah, 35k. I mean, we obviously made our mind back, right? But it just like it was a lot of time spent. But I think too, like, you know, there's, you can always, I always try and look at the good, good thing out of, you know, if you, if you want to call it like wasted time, wasted money, it's like, now I know like, all right, not to get distracted from tonne shit. That's not physical therapy. Because it's like, but at least like, now I know like, hey, I've shut the door on that option. That is not the option for us. And so I think a lot of times, too, like if you're going to do something, just like fucking do it and commit to it, commit to it for a certain period of time, because that will give you a lot of data and feedback. And so I think a lot of, I tell people this all the time, it's like, hey, regardless if you want to work with us or not, like, or work with somebody else, like choose somebody to work with, or don't like work with somebody and like try and figure it out on your own, because the faster you commit to something, the faster data you get back in terms of like whether or not something's going to be working for you or not. But the biggest thing is like, like, don't want to do is just like delay and figure out like, oh, mullet or oh, well, should I do this? Well, well, maybe should I should do this? No, just like, pick one thing, commit to it. And then you get data back. It's like, hey, whether or not this thing works or it's not going to work and you need to pivot to something else. Yeah, the, there's literally a restaurant in New York City called Burger and Lobster. That's it. You just order a burger or you can have a lobster. You can have a whole lobster, you can have a lobster roll and it's super simple. Massive fucking restaurant, it was all the hype like 10 years ago. Still does well, because people say go there. The menus evolved a little bit. I think they have like three different burgers. I know, but for the most part, just burger and lobster. But yeah, we've gone to semi-private route and I think a lot of these things are just more of like, uh, I don't want to say a headache, but it's like, it's just so much work for so little squeeze out of the fruit, you know? And it does just, you can't, you only have a finite amount of resources, so like, allocating all of that to, or allocating half of that to something that's like, not generating nearly as much revenue as like your court offer. There's a great, uh, quote by Russell Brunson. It's like one problem, one offer, one funnel until you get to seven figures and I think there's definitely a lot of people that are selling one offer to one person by solving one problem and doing it at a very high level. I think the reason why people, I guess, Coco get distracted is because they don't really, they haven't really truly mastered like, you know, marketing or selling that one thing. And I think back to like, you know, three years ago when we start pivoting into semi-private, it's because we ended up hitting a cap with like all of our local workshops and local organic marketing, you know, we were doing around 50k per month, but I couldn't figure out like how to fucking get past that. So I was like, okay, cool, like, let me look for an additional stream of revenue that I could do to like help grow my business. But looking back now, it's like, well, it's because we weren't running any kind of paid ads and I really hadn't mastered it to the, you know, level that we currently do today. But it's like, shit, like, with how much we go into paid ads and marketing with physical therapy, you know, it's so clear, like, hey, like, this is a clear winning offer that we have to like double down on and really, really kind of like blow it up at scale. Yeah, the, that that route of going like, that's where a lot of people get stuck and I think that's where like paid marketing does really, really well. And at 30 to 50k range, like, you can get to 50k local marketing, but it takes a lot of frickin work and if you want to do it sustainably, you got to have some sort of a paid channel. I think I was obviously one of the biggest mistakes I made was not diving into the paid marketing stuff sooner. That would have definitely helped, but it is what it is. We already had a couple of episodes talking about that. I think my other dig mistake was not looking at space as sooner. You know, we've been sub leasing for a while and we sub leased up until like a year and a half ago. And I think once we actually took our own lease and had our own space and made that jump, our revenue was way more predictable. The experience was more uniform and if I know that this is where what I've gone, I probably would have tried to get it done like a year, like three years ago, a post like a year and a half ago because our revenue was fairly similar and I feel like this, you know, we would have just, we were kind of in a rush because the gym that we were sub leasing from ended up sub leasing to another cross-fit gym that closed. So it just got into rowdy and I really pushed us to the limit of finding our own lease now, but after having our own lease, I was like, damn, we probably could have done this sooner and just taken the risk of jumping shit. Yeah. I think a little bit, I don't know, I'm not going back and forth and I'm thinking about this now whether or not this is going to be like a mistake or not, but I almost feel like for our second location, I might have potentially like jumped into it too soon. And do I regret it? No, I don't like because like it was a phenomenal opportunity and like we're very well established in the safety clear water now with that one, but I think like that year when we expanded into that second location, I wasn't fully maxed out in terms of like utilization for our current space in Jacksonville. And when I ended up opening up that second location in St.P. Clearwater, I think like that year. I just spent a lot of time into really making sure from a marketing and sales standpoint, fulfillment standpoint, it was pretty good over there, but because of that, yeah, it's like distraction, like our jacks and level occasion, like it still grew, but it just didn't grow at the rate that it had been previous years before. So I think like, shit, I don't know, man. Like you should definitely look to expand the opportunities, right? But when you do expand, just know that like your growth will potentially be stunted at your main location because of the amount of bandwidth and resources that you have isn't fully being allocated towards that one location. And I think this is one thing that I'm like starting to realize now. So like for us, like our goal is to be able to like, get to like 10 million a year and revenue. And I think there's so many ways to do this for like these like cashback links. You can have multiple different locations, doing each doing around like 500K, right? But if you think about it like, shit, that's so much like management of all these like smaller locations. Whereas like I'm doing the math now, I'm like, dude, I can just have like three locations each doing like three to 3.5 million each. And then really just like pack it full of like, you know, probably need around like five to six PTs in each location for that. But like that's gonna be such an easier pathway to go through. And I think like a lot of times like people think that's like, hey, they think most of all different locations. But like man, like looking back now, it's like almost which I would have probably just like, hey, maybe waited one more year and really get like our main location like as full as possible as possible, as possible as possible before kind of making that jump. It's the next one. But yeah, I don't know, I'm gonna go, can't tell if that's a mistake or not, but it's just just some reflections, I guess. No, for sure. And I think that's a common one where like even in the beginning, like we went to another location fairly quick. And if we just were to focus then so instead of going to Elf-Aral and City, it would have been better. Yeah. But I think too, like even, shit, I even think about like aside from the same people and there were a couple of times in Jacksonville where we tried expanding into, I guess, I guess like almost like a different suburb area, which still part of Jacksonville, but there's just 20, 30 minutes away. But like trying to like send somebody out there to man that location as like a small sub lease inside a gym, it was just like so spread out and just wasn't never really as efficient as just like having one solid location where you have like a ton of clutches in there, vibes are pumping, vibes are good, versus kind of like having so many sub leases inside gyms. And you're kind of like bouncing back and forth between, you know, each location and like, I fucking, we did that for a real shit, I don't know, I think four or five months, when I was driving out to that one location, just like fucking like seven, it was like fucking miserable, dude. - Yeah, I remember like treating in one location, then taking a train and going to jail location or like scheduling, sometimes got super confusing. And I don't regret it because I don't regret it just because it was a good opportunity then. And you know, we're stabilized now in one of the locations, but it is a lot to have people in like multiple areas and hopping around a ton of times. But yeah, it's like in the beginning, like when you're a solo provider and you're not quite as busy as you feel like you could be, I would not try to distract yourself with more and more locations. - Yeah, I agree. One thing, another thing I wish we'd done was race prices. Shit, I think like, it really wasn't until last year, dude, but we only used the only race prices once a year. And then in this last year, the last like back half of the quarter. So from like September to December, we played around with raising prices for net new people coming in like every single month. And believe it or not, dude, I mean, like fuck, our conversion rate stayed exactly the same, but we basically jumped up from like 2,600 up to like 3,600, and as well, exactly $1,000 more for like flagship program. And then conversion rates stayed exactly the same. And so for me, I was just like a very big eye opening moment, where I mean, like we talk about all the time. It's like, hey, like raise your price if people will pay it. No matter what, but it's like, so kind of that little voice in the back of your head and just like, well, what happens if they say no, right? So you test it out on like just the net new e-vows coming in. And it's like, shit, as long as our close rate remains the same, like I'm just gonna continue to kind of increase price and kind of see where that fine line is. But yeah, I know for sure, like we already charged the most in Jacksonville, but it's like, okay, like people are gonna pay this. Like why would they pay another $300 more? So a lot of it's really just kind of perception in your own head. But yeah, do that. That was one thing I wish we did sooner, or just like raise prices, or test out pricing more often. Test it out more often, and we'll kind of like let the market dictate like where, you know, that kind of fine line is. But shit, man, like yeah, like there's so many car factors, you know, charging like 5K, 7K for a planning carer and shit. Like people are very willing to buy them that. So yeah, I'm just like slowly start casing our way up to, you know, 4K, 5K for like our flagship offer, kind of see where that goes and make a sure our conversion rate kind of continues to kind of maintain and stick with that. But yeah, otherwise it like shit, like I still remember like the first, my first two years, I think it took me like probably two years to raise our like package program prices. And then from there, it was just like, hey, we would raise prices just once a year. Yeah. - Yeah, not necessarily with patience, but with our team, especially earlier, we had a very low base with a lot of upside. And I feel like that was something that probably drove some PT's away from us. So if I could go back, I would change it to just a bigger base to begin with and then having a bonus at the end of the year. - Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, that's definitely out totally kind of a percent agree with that. We salary all of our PT's. I think one of the things I realized is like PT's don't like, what's the right word? I guess instability or where it's kind of just like up and down. And I think that's probably why they aren't entrepreneurs and they aren't like out there like grinding and doing their own thing. Because when you are grinding and doing your own thing, you have some months that are up, some months that are down. Whereas like I would say the matured PT's want to make sure like, hey, they have the same paycheck every two weeks, which is awesome for you as a business owner, especially if you understand sales and marketing. You can really just pack their schedule full. I think a lot of times at the very beginning, people who aren't sure about sales and marketing, they don't want to take on the risk. So they always make people either like 10, 99s or they make them like part-time, it's like, hey, if you fill up, you don't make the full time. But there never really is any kind of risk on there. And so it's kind of just like one foot in, one foot out, but yeah, PT's don't like unpredictability, they don't like instability. So yeah, I think like, also to like, I don't really know many PT's that do go for that like low or base model with the high incentive who actually do hit that. Primarily because like when they do have that, the owner oftentimes isn't incentivized to place a ton of clients on their schedule. And so it's just like from what I've heard and what I've seen is just like, yeah, they maybe do like 20, 25 is a week, but they never really reached that like 35 is it, 40 is a week to really kind of hit that high bonus potential, like, you know, that they visualize that they're gonna hit in their own head. And so yeah, we just, we salary everybody. Everyone gets a two to three K years, three to three K raised year over year. And yeah, hopefully it turns out well, but we'll report back in about four or five years and let you know how it is. - Yeah. And again, when you aren't trying to get someone to bonus at 30 at 35, you've gotta be booking like 40 appointments almost, right? Like there's so much fluctuation in like, cantoes, reschedules and things like that. And when someone's take home is correlated today, it could be a very stressful work week for your PT's. Hmm, let me think. What else? Oh, one thing, I guess this kind of goes a little bit into about like managing expectations a little bit, but doing game tape reviews. So yeah, at the very beginning, we weren't doing any kind of like recordings for like eBAL. So, you know, people come in for objections, they, you know, they wouldn't convert. And then we wouldn't really know what to say differently. But until we actually start recording all of our evaluations and everything, now we can actually do like game tape review with our with our PT's, with our closures, really see, hey, do we say what we're supposed to say? What was the tonality here? But shit, yeah, I remember the first time I had brought that up at a meeting or a fucking team looked at me like I was fucking crazy. But it's just like they weren't used to it, you know? But now everybody that comes in, like, it's they all know, hey, like sales, a very game tape review is a very big part of our culture. And exactly what we do, we do it every single week. And it's just normal. And so nobody has any problems with it because they comment with that expectation of like, hey, this is how it is and how, you know, it will be moving forward. But yeah, I don't really understand like, especially with, with CacheVT, how there's such a big sales component to it. I don't understand how like people can go through without doing like reviewing their e-vails, you know? It's just like any other like professional team, like they always review, hey, like, how do we run that play? What was the, what was the game winning drive against the last team we played? You know, what plays or what defensive strategies did the other team play? It's just more data, more feedback. Oftentimes I think I realize like a lot of what we say live, we visualize it one way in our own head. But when we listen back on it, it's like comes out way differently. But the only way you do that is if you actually like have some feedback, look for you moving forward. - No, for sure. And I think it's probably something that I'm gonna be starting soon just just like, there's something about getting feedback and not hearing your own voice. You've got to be able to hear your own voice in order for it to feel like, "Oh wow, it's not what you're just saying. I can actually hear this now from a recording." So totally agree on that point. Any last things Peter, I feel like we covered a lot of things. - Those are the big items, man. I think that at least definitely impacted revenue. But yeah, man, there's probably like a ton of other things along the way. Honestly, yeah, we could probably do one of these every single month and just review a lot of things. - We're changing for this month when we're in Florida. But no, I think those are the big items from like a perspective of like, "It took a lot of time." - Yeah, you know, like you dedicated resources, you dedicated money to do something and it didn't pan out three to six months. The way that you wanted. - Yeah, but it looks like at the same time, like very thankful like all these things occurred because like shit, had these things not occurred, like we would probably be doing the same shit that we were like four or five days ago or four or five years ago. But it's like, till you get the feedback loop of like, "Hey, this isn't working, this isn't working." You won't really know what to do or what's a pivot towards moving forward. So yeah, I've great learning opportunities where mistakes are less than learned through call it a long way. But yeah, hopefully you guys are listening to this. Like don't do the shit that we just talked about on this podcast. - Yeah. Well, real quick, we appreciate you guys. Just we did get our, we're 48, 5 started with these beautiful stuff. - Oh shit, two more to our baby. - We are so close. If you guys are looking to attend our live event March 21st and March 22nd, that'll be in Austin. We've got so many good things going on. But the main thing I'll say is limited spots, like probably like two or three more people that we could squeeze in. So if you're interested in pulling up to GGC live in Austin, it's gonna be a banger. We're gonna be talking about everything from content strategy, how to scale a sales team, how to have those difficult conversations, systems, all that good stuff. I think we've got like 30 plus people attending right now. So it is gonna be a movie. - It's gonna be a movie fan. Appreciate you all. Let's get this to 55 store reviews that are making Peter's day next week. How do we feel about that Peter? Do you think what's over on it that we get the 50? - I'm pointing good vibes out there into the universe. I think we can, I think we can hit it. Dude, it's today is Chinese New Year. - It's Chinese New Year, you're the horse. - You're the horse, yeah. - Yeah, it's your look. We got good vibes coming through. - Gunghe Fattroids, all my Asian people out there. So appreciate you all. If you celebrate the Lunar New Year, happy New Year's. If not, go support an API business today. You know, just get a little take out action, a little general sales chicken. Don't go to Panda Expression or something like that. - Yeah, not that shit. - Go to the restaurant where there's a child studying on the laptop. - That's a fast. - That's what you get support. - Peace, yo.