BFCM Prep On The Fly

All right, welcome to the Underdog E-Com Podcast where two E-Com brand founders are figuring out in real time. Yeah, we're not here to preach. We're here in the thick of it, making mistakes, testing all sorts of ideas, and really sharing the journey of how we've been growing these brands from day zero. Hopefully you learn a little bit, perhaps come away with some ideas that save you time and money. And so if you're tired of the same glittery, de-dice-y advice from those nine figure gurus, you're here in the right place. Let's get into it. Hello, we're back underdog E-Com here, and so it is October, which means Q4 is here and BFCM, everyone's favorite four-letter acronym, is here. Even though I'm sure people in the E-Com DDC sphere, I know people within the DDC sphere have been talking about it for weeks and months, and it seems like it never, ever leaves our brain fully, but we're here. We're going to do a little on-the-fly Q4 prep, BFCM prep, on-the-fly, because we're underdogs, and we don't have 17 people that can settle everything up for us ahead of time, we're figuring out as we go, as everyone else is. So, Jack, what are you thinking about for BFCM? How's it going? Yeah, I'm doing all right, and just like you said, we're creating campaigns, we're doing the emails, we're doing the ads, it's kind of crazy, isn't it? The one thing I think about this time of year is you remember what it's like, because it all comes together, you're doing BASICY everything, there's almost nothing that you can, throughout the year, you might leave some things behind, but for any time, you remember emails, you remember ads, you remember GANIC content, you remember everything, so yeah, it's kind of a stressful time, but it's also like a fun time. Oh man, you're making me kind of stressed out just thinking about all of these different things that I have on my to-do list. No, it's crazy. It is good. There's a large amount of revenue, and obviously everyone we're trying to capture the revenue and make it work as much as possible and not lose contribution margin at the end of the day, but still make it work. I haven't, like honestly, I haven't thought, I haven't thought too much about this, right now I've got full transparency here for everyone on the pod. I got Claude running an analysis of my last year campaign. What I did last year, I'll start off, I guess. What I did last year was I ran sort of a sale for most of the month and didn't do anything specifically on Black Friday because as a one person company, I wanted to spend time with my family and my kids and stuff, and so that was great. I feel like that reduced in the past, I've had so much anxiety and stress around the single day of Black Friday, and my brand is such a small audience and like not a ton of people, so it's so easy to get lost, I think, in the thousand emails that customers are getting that day, and I remember a couple of years ago, it was a huge disappointment. I thought I did everything, I prepped for weeks, I set up all the emails, all the texts, and all the offers, and then I rolled around Black Friday, and I was on a date with my wife and tweeting, because I was stupid, and sad about how it didn't work at all, and it caught caught in the D to C, Twitter, Land, and people picked it up, and people were buying, and it was making my night, and it was super crazy, and got dozens and dozens of orders that day. Nick Sharma, awesome guy, tweeted it out, and stuff, that was crazy, that was really cool, also I felt, it was really cool, and I felt very honored, but I was also kind of like, it's still like, those are orders, which is great, revenues great, but it doesn't, is this brand working, and I feel like I'm still asking the same sort of question, but I think last year, my strategy of running it for a couple of weeks was really great, I'm going to probably do that this year as well, with sort of a smaller offer, it's not going to be crazy huge, I'm kind of thinking about doing, a site-wide discount, maybe larger discounts on certain products that are overstocked, maybe gift with purchase kind of thing, and I have some new drops that should line up, hopefully with that of new products that are going to be, hopefully really good, so I think that will help to, like, break through the noise a little bit, but that's what I'm taking off top of my head, yeah. So last year, did you not do quite a lot of different offers throughout the month, is that right, is it, I think, mix it up, or things? I did a mystery box in the middle of the month, like a holiday mystery box to try and clear out at some inventory, it was a huge discount, sort of like 50%, 60% or something, and that did really well, it sold out super fast, I think I also had, oh yeah, I did, here we go, Claude has informed me because I have no memory apparently, I had some full price products, I did mystery boxes, and I did a free hat, I did some flash deals, I did a free hat Friday, which I thought was a really good idea to, like, warm up the list and stuff, I saw in the brand do that, where it's a free product, very limited quantity, maybe 20 or something like that, and I think that was the week or two before Black Friday, and I think it just helped to, like, keep the brand top of my head. It was really interesting, that day, even though there were so many free orders that came through that day, it was still a really strong day revenue wise, and I sent out a secondary offer after the free offer for hats, that was, you know, X amount off or something, and that worked pretty well, some really high click through rates and that sort of thing on it, there we go. Remember, drove a lot more revenue, but most of the month barely made money. We're honest here, we're open and honest, transparent. That's just, you and I isn't it, that's just, like, a perfect, like, description of, like, you and I in our businesses. Oh man, I love that. Free mystery box, $150 order, that's what my, that's what one of the deals was, so you place a certain threshold, get some, get a free mystery box, I did some random bogos and stuff, $1 Nalgene for my top customers, which was fun, because I was overstocked, and that seemed like a fun way to kind of get people warmed up, that was late October, actually. Some bogos, some bogo 50s, automatic discounts. Oh, so my main offer ran for that week of Black Friday, for BFCM, it was 10, 20, 30% off at $50, $100, $200 thresholds, plus some, a bunch of bogos. Wow. I think I went kind of crazy with discounts last year, now that I'm reading through this. See, I think I knew you were Black Friday, but then you did. You did, you did. I have two kids under five, I have zero memory, zero memory these days. Wow, yeah, that was interesting. So, interesting, lots of deep discounts. I think I was super overstocked. I mean, classic me, it just feels like my brand is always overstocked, but takeaways, this is interesting, so takeaways for this year, based on what my buddy Opus is telling me. Run one sale, not a month of them, exclude hero products and new drops, that makes sense. Keep the mechanic that I did last year in terms of the tiered thresholds, but check the tiers and make sure it makes sense with AOV and that sort of thing. Drop the free box of $100 worth $100 or whatever, that was the mystery box with the out of certain threshold. Don't do that gift with purchases too much, keep clearance separate. December was as profitable per day as BFCM. Cool. Send fewer stronger emails and block code stacking. All right, thanks, God. So, that's another thing. I seem to remember you having a really good December. I think I did because I launched, I think I did like a couple, I did like a restock one of my hero products in December. Yeah, we just kept rolling. My brand definitely does really well in gift season, and like I actually had a friend text me a couple days ago, she ran into someone wearing one of my t-shirts and the woman was like, "Oh yeah, I love this brand. I gift like 10 of them out every holiday season to my family because they're amazing t-shirts and stuff." And so, it is strong. That's a core element of the brand, which I'm grateful for. It's really nice. Yeah, I'm certainly gifted them as well, so it's, I agree with you with that. No, no, it's, I think you're right. The gifting thing, it's so giftable, your collection, your products in general, so giftable. And I gift them to people who have never been to State of Washington, right, but the Pacific, like all the best I think, they've never been there, and they love it. They absolutely love it, the style. It's a bit like Santa Cruz, the brand, people want to wear that, you know, with a being to California or not, right? So, I think that's my opinion anyway. But it's really interesting about all the different offers you did, because I actually think that that's an interesting take as well, is that Black Friday, if you're doing just talking about the traffic, Black Friday is expensive and a traffic side of things, and having those different offers and keeping things interesting throughout the month is also quite interesting tactic. Obviously there's the profitability of it and how that works, but other than that, it's also just acquiring those customers earlier is often cheaper, and then, and then especially with your brand, I don't know about mine, but especially with your brand, there's also a fairly good chance they'll come back when Black Friday comes around, especially as the offer is different around Black Friday. I don't know, I think Claude is right that maybe keep things simpler, but I think also the benefit of multiple offers throughout a month or throughout a time period is that it just gives an opportunity for the same people to come back, whereas if it's the same offer, they might come back, but it's not like they're, they're not reminding them to get something else, you're not bringing those things to their attention the same way. The stay in age that we live in is crazy the amount of insight and data that we can get into. Obviously my brain did not remember what was going on last year, but being able to two minutes before I needed the information, prompt, claw, basically so full transparency. What I prompted Claude with was let's review BFCM last year, I think I ran a sale for most of November. Look up the details in Clavio and Clio and tell me what worked and what didn't, and specifically from an offer standpoint, then analyze and give me takeaways for this year. And I've really found that, hooking up. The Clavio MCP has been super useful because I can look up things like When sales run when products get restocked when dropped happened if you're sending out those emails for those types of events You don't need a third party. I think I have built an air table at one point to track some of this stuff But it's and I will get to that at some point but being so time constrained and just like basically me doing all this is a nice Stopgap and then being able to look up the profitability and the numbers in Cleo is also that's my pseudo data warehouse at this point It's just powerful like it is it's it's really cool and hopefully it means that my November this year will be even better. We'll see Yeah, definitely. I'm sure it will be yeah, and okay, so let's offer side of things. What about? What about you? What's the trashy around acquisition or I know it's hard to say to you and I struggle to be struggling with cash But ideally anyway is your plan to spend early in November and then have it more the retention side of things during black Friday Or is it just to make the most and is it going to mostly matter and then also how many emails you're thinking of sending throughout See the month of November is it gonna be a business as usual up until the weekend of black Friday or you're gonna be trying to keep Send a lot of more emails than usual during that month Spend-wise I only spend on meta. I don't spend anywhere else. Yeah, so that's easy to answer I think from what sort of my attack plan has been with ads of the last couple months is like Check it in almost daily and basically scale up and down every a couple times a week I know that you're not supposed to change the ads themselves Maybe like once a week. That's kind of the best practice I've been trying to stick to that as much as possible on Mondays just updating the ads themselves and adding new and turning off And that sort of thing, but I think probably what I'll do is a monitor ad spend Because I'm reading here the ad spend early on in November Was interesting live reading and analysis. So basically the ad spend in early November wasn't great Like there was a lot of contribution margin that got added from that And so I think I'll have to be super careful and being just crazy tight on cash I'm also being very diligent about we have to hit these specific Mer and row as numbers to make it worth it and so I'll look at contribution margin over November And it's so hard because on one hand I'm probably still overstocked in Vendory not as much as last year, but so I need to Make revenue and you kind of have to spend to make revenue But I think this year I'm going to have more of an eye towards profitability and contribution margin and making sure that the ads are working so From an acquisition versus retention standpoint probably business as usual for the retention Side of things which is emails for most of November up until the week of black Friday So there will be a couple emails a week Still a couple product drops hopefully will happen that month a couple restocks that sort of thing those tend to do pretty well from a performance standpoint for click through in an order rates and then acquisition That will be what I'll be monitoring and I'll be running the ads during the sale But then that will kind of that is both I'm not necessarily excluding purchasers from My sale campaign and ads manager as far as I remember and so it'll it'll be both segment it'll be both segments But they'll be hopefully some acquisition that happens on that side and then all the social posts teasing everything and Gonna try and do more teasing the even Opus years telling me like the free hat Friday had the best click-through rate of the month But it came in those orders came in at a negative contribution margin of course and the follow-up offer Which was Bogo added some revenue so it netted out to break even it's mine is an engagement play, but isn't a revenue play Which is exactly what I would expect for that But that was the goal with that That the free hat Friday so there'll be like little things like that where I try and boost and Get more people in the funnels and then hopefully capture them later on down the road to it'd be interesting to look at that cohort to see If those folks had follow-up orders on what their LTV would be Yeah, they'd be useful to know. Yeah, that's really interesting. I think if anyone's gonna do a month long like Black Friday I'm thinking of like a brat. If you're at our place the cookware brand Yeah, so they do they've historically done whole month of November Black Friday and I think if you do that you have to Have so many different reasons people come back and I think from maybe from acquisition Maybe not so much because you're just acquiring new customers But I think just to keep things interesting you must have some different bundles and offers and things it's tough to do Yeah, we'll see I came in also I apologize I comment here this whole conversation asked you how you what your plans were and then boom 50 minutes later here's all my plans But it's interesting what it's telling me takeaways for the month is keep that mechanic of the tiered price threshold So I came into this thinking I'll run a flat 20% off Excludes new drops and restocks and hero products and maybe a gift with purchase keep it simple stupid the kiss approach Based on this analysis, it's telling me the opposite keep the tiered discount approach and Keep clearance separate December remember December is profitable and yeah, so we'll see I don't know I feel like these conclusions here are Contrary to what I wanted to do and so I'm gonna have to spend a little bit more time digging through this I don't know what you Like the kiss approach. I don't know what the rate. It's hard to know right There's just so many options and I think decision fatigue is real especially when it comes to playing it all this out by yourself Yeah, so who knows where I land. I don't know. Yeah, I'm being selfish because I asked you to know because I want to know myself What to do to be honest, but in any case what I've done in the past is I've tried to keep it as simple as possible and I do a straight Site-wide discount and So a complete opposite of what of what you do to be honest and I wanted to do yeah, I say the difference is obviously I have a much smaller catalog than you do so I have a less number of products that I can surf this and It's much easier to go buy one jacket get another jet or whatever it is hats jackets That's content to be excuse. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Whereas I got 12 or 13 or 14 or so like that this colors as well So maybe with colors maybe it's 16 or 18 or something, but it's small And so I keeping it going for a long time is tough for me. That's what I was saying earlier is for me I could do we've got a free gift this day, but I think Looking at what other brands similar to me have done. They tend to do site-wide offer So that's what I've kind of done the past it's usually she done 15 or 20% off last year I did 20% off and what I've done in the past actually is I've always had a higher discount on bundles So if we have a bundle bags that's 25% off 5% off more than say the site-wide discount That seems to work pretty well, and so that brings up AOV, but of course sometimes I think yeah, but then Technically, that means See if it's a bundle of three bags. That's three and more than one of the bags is entirely free if it's 25% off Right or something like that anyway, so that sometimes put that puts me off a little bit I do think maybe sometimes having a tier works well I've done what I've done the past is have a site-wide discount for our email list earlier than everyone else Because we actually have always run out of stock of some of our bags from back Friday. I'm hoping this year Well, I hope they're actually hoping this year we do again, but hopefully all enough that there's enough Beneath ways, so what I've done the past is send an email out earlier say maybe mid-November. Well, they've got a 456 days of early access to our email list and then I start to like make it publicly available And then I run like that then the actual offers on ads, but I definitely think IP anyway is do not wait until Friday to launch like your offer because It means your black Friday ads are going to have three days worth of exposure or four days worth of exposure If you're going to put that much effort into creating ads specifically for black Friday You almost need to like run them as long as you can without them fatiguing So that's one thing I've found as well a longer black Friday is just easier to add in from it from that perspective Easy to do because everything makes more sense. You can not just sell more product But the ads can do better for longer and the assets make sense and you're not just like turties Like often turning it back on again before it's got a chance to learn. So I think that's really important Another thing that I've started to do in last couple of years is try and keep some consistency across it In a sense, I have highlight color that I've done in the past where there'd be something that sticks out of red or Energy safety red type of color or yellow or green or something And I try and use that in all of our black Friday emails on the site Maybe they had to cut button changes that color and then ads as well have that highlight color and I try and use that And I don't know to what extent it makes a difference, but it kind of feels special to me And so I do it. Yeah, and then I do think when you go on the site and you see something different for black Friday I do think maybe just have a slightly more that's a conscious feeling that it's a bit more special I don't know, but yeah, I kind of want to steal that because I definitely have clients that do that for my little Dev Studio for Shopify and they're they're changing and these are like big brands as you change a little thing And I think color is probably the easiest thing That's the most noticeable to change rather than copy everyone's changing copy But if you change a little like CTA color, I'm liking I'm thinking through the different off There's a really cool red that I like but I don't know red usually in denotes a negative action But maybe it would work for this where it could instead of my typical blue color or I could go gold But that's there's accessibility issues with that gold color. I like hmm. I'm intrigued I might have to pull this part a little bit more. Yeah, I think it is worth doing it without without getting too bogged down with it and it colors it good because it's then, like you said, not too much work You can apply it to a lot of different things like an email or an ad and then on site and it's not too difficult to do So yeah, I think I think it's cool thing to do I think we definitely got it yet. Sorry. Sorry. I was gonna ask specifically how your offer is gonna work Is it discount code that gets applied automatically and then with an exception doesn't exclude the bundles or is it just you? you mark the compare app prices in Shopify. There's so many different ways to do this, and I feel like some people are like, have the customer type in the coupon code, so they hit that enter button, they see the price change, they get the dopamine hit, other people are like, have the, have the coupon applied automatically, so you can include it in your magic links, or use something like Auburn Pomos, and have it just added automatically, or just use the compare app pricing in Shopify itself, so that you don't have to change anything, they don't have to enter anything, it already occurs, there's no chance of, I feel like with the magic links, I think that's the right URL, the magic checkout link thing, like there's always some random browser bugs and caches, and all sorts of things that could potentially go wrong, and so reducing friction is usually the name of the game, but I totally understand how it's like, have the customer hit the ender button, get the dopamine hit, like that makes sense too, hard to say. - That's a really good question. - My opinion is that if you can't do anything else, the best thing probably, the easiest thing, is just to compare app price, and mark down the price against compare app price, that ensures no problems, it's gonna work every time, and then bundles to kind of their own pricing, so it prevents, and then you just make sure the discount codes aren't clashing with that, 'cause obviously that's one big problem having us doing Black Friday is, you leave a discount code, you've marked down your prices, and then you've got codes that are still active, and they get 10% off, because actually when you do a discount code, there's a lot of settings that will stop with discount codes from combining, whereas you've just marked down your prices, you can forget, and then the people are finding codes, and it's really going down. But I still think it's the easiest thing for the customer. I do think there is a bit of a dopamine thing with codes though, people like codes. I've heard about brands using free shipping codes, as opposed to just adding free shipping and the shipping profile, because people seem to like the free shipping code versus, even if it's an automatic discount code, like it's automatic, but they just seem to like the code in there. I don't know, that's where I've heard anyway. That was actually something I like. - No, that's really good, 'cause in it shows the compare app, where it's like free shipping was $10, boom, free. All right, I'll be right back. I'm going to go change my shop to that right now. - It is cool. I think I actually got that tip from Kurt Elsteth, from the Fish Show High Podcast. They said they do that a lot. - You're going to look good on Kurt? - Yes, I thought it was pretty cool. But the other things I have used after promotions in the past, and they talk about being able to, through a link, you can then have your store entirely that Friday night, right? But I haven't found it that reliable, especially things like Facebook ads, where UTMs get cut out sometimes, and it just doesn't always work, right? - So, with Abra, I love Abra. I've been using it for years, and Daniel and Tim are awesome. - They already built it. - And so, you can have it set to be automatic, right? I'm sure you know this, but you can have it set to be automatic, so it applies to every single person that comes to the store. - Yes, yes, still issues sometimes, but. - No, no, no, yeah, that fixes it. I just mean, like, say, this is actually really applied to that Friday, but say you want to use that link for a certain offer that only people through ads and acquisition can find. That's when I find it gets a little bit, or if you wanted to launch your Black Friday early, but you didn't want to make it public yet, but you wanted to launch it on ads or, or just to an email list, even, and they click through the email, not everyone is going to see that regard, because they think it's just sometimes being stripped off, it's not automatic. They can see it on their phone. Yeah, they can see it on their phone, and they just go back on their laptop, whatever, and they have not clicked through the email anymore, and they don't see it. So, anyway. It's so many ways where there's breakage. - What I really like about Abra and is the, and I think it's the best thing, is the way there the code also affects the schema pricing, and see, that is the biggest win, and I want to do that this year, because I think both being able to see the mark down price and have a code is the best of both worlds. - Yeah, I agree 100%, I love that app for that reason, and you were talking about having it doing the compare app pricing, and I think in the past, I've typically used the keep on code and used something like an Abra, probably used Abra actually last season, and I really like it from an analytic standpoint, right? So, I can say, well, let's go look up this discount. This is the code we used on orders, like let's check to see what the details look like, and I think that's a great way to just track stuff, 'cause data is always so iffy, and the more clear I can make the data the better, I think. So, that's why I like using the codes themselves, but I agree that there will definitely be customer service tickets that the issues come up all the time, regardless, nothing's flawless. They'll just be issues. - And stackers, there's the stacker people out there that are like, I have 17 discount codes, why aren't they all working together? - Oh, God, yeah. - Did you read that it says you cannot combine all these discount codes together? - No, I want them all together. - Yeah, that's a great, cool story, dude. - Yeah, everyone's trying to get a deal on there, but yeah, so that's annoying. I was actually looking through my days as well, that similarly, I definitely did more revenue on Black Friday last year than I did the year before, but I still did actually more revenue that lead up to Black Friday than the Black Friday weekend. So, interesting, 'cause I think a lot of people still gonna wait to buy a Black Friday, it probably is true, but I've certainly seen earlier as helped a lot. - I think as time has gone to the hype around the Black Friday day itself, I think there's multiple factors. Smaller brands, we're not able to break through the noise as much people are like, oh, I'm gonna go buy my Dyson vacuum and they're not gonna think about buying my t-shirt. And so, we just kind of fall off the radar. And so, and then there's also the whole expansion of Black Friday where it's no longer just that single day where people are shopping. It's this whole week lead up to it. And so, everyone's kind of in that mindset already. It's not really, I don't know if you remember, back in the day, we used to go to shopping malls and stand in line for camp out the night before to get the plasma TV for 95% off. And there's like three of them and you're punching people in the face to grab one and that sort of thing. And that's that one single day that you can do it. And now it's this whole week plus multiple weeks. It's kind of just like another sale period. It's not actually a single day, obviously. We all know this, but I think that's the evolution that we're sitting in. This is not a day, it's gonna be multiple weeks. People are open to that. There will be people that wait till the actual Friday date, but everyone's kind of like, it's a couple of week time period where they're sales. Cool. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is product drops and how do you do that? Because I've got a couple of products they don't actually get on a boat now. So, hoping they'll be there in time for Black Friday. And so, they're probably going to get launched during Black Friday. Or at least, we have pre-orders, but they're going to come in to stock or during Black Friday. And so, my question for you is like, how do you, especially if you're doing something like a site-wide discount and you're launching something into Black Friday, do you just launch it with discount, or what do you do generally? Oh, that's hard. It kind of depends if I'm like pretty confident the product's gonna sell out. I will not, I'll exclude it from the site-wide discount and kind of, then the copy has to change a little bit where it's like up to 20% off or whatever it is. Sometimes if I'm not super confident in it, I will launch it during the sale. And just like those people get the deal, I kind of hate that. Sometimes I'll hold onto products. I think it might have been last year where I held onto a product and tell December to launch it after the sale, which is tough because then it's like, will it sell through, December's often a lot softer, hard to say. And this year I've got at least two products and at least a couple restocks that are gonna probably land in November. And it's a good question, I'm not totally sure. 'Cause it does feel, I think it, as always, it depends on the brand, it depends on the situation, but I think my brand specifically, there's some cash flow issues, there's some over stock issues. And so like ultimately into the day, I think you can either lean into the FOMO of a new product, drop and like that, keep it separate from the sale, either launch it at a different time period or accelerate it from the actual deals. And I think that is when you have a really strong brand and people are really into it. So it's gonna sell out, they're gonna love it. And that thing, I feel like I'm in the situation where my brand is not doing, as well as it could be, I wish I was stronger, cash flow issues. And so then I think it makes more sense to launch it. During the sale, the people get the discount, you try and clear through it as much as you can and then it goes back up to full price after the sales over or whatever. So it depends, I think. - The other thing I've seen brands do a lot is wait slightly and then launch in December. Because the sale is gone, and then there's no like expectation of why is it not on sale. And then it's gifting season, it just gives people another reason to buy from you. I've seen that work quite well as well. And the other thing I've seen work really well is I've been wanting to steal this but I don't think it works that well for us. But there's a sunglass brand, it's called Sungor, I don't know if you heard of them, but like they're quite a big sunglass brand. And every Black Friday, they just do buy a pair, get a pair. So their Black Friday is you buy a pair, you get one pair. And their UI is insanely good for a gift and everything. They must have put so much effort into it because it's like so intuitive, the free gift. That's one thing that worries about free gift is people not understanding how it works, how dad it cart or stuff. They've got fantastic free gift UI. But anyway, it's really interesting because on one hand I think it's really cool. That's amazing, no discount whatsoever. That discount is the cost, they're only losing the cost of goods sold. The free gift may not be as high value as the product someone's adding to cart, they're adding all this customization with lenses and stuff like that. And so actually, maybe it's a really good way to get people to buy. But then at the same time, like yeah, but where, how do they get any AOV? Because what's the incentive? If you're getting what a second pair of free, you're really going to buy another pair to get another free pair, I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was interesting. - I like it. I like how simple and easy it is. And it's like expected. And I think if you build that into your brand, it's great. People know that it's coming. They're going to try and, especially if they sell out, I imagine they probably sell out in a lot of their popular stuff. And that's even better because if you really want a specific Vulcan's event then you're not going to, and you know what's going to sell out, then you're going to want to get it now kind of thing versus then it is interesting because, I mean, And some of these, I'm looking at these prices. 213, 180, 95. Like, I imagine Cogs is like 20 dollars, 10 dollars. I think sunglasses is pretty high margin. And so, yeah, it's like a very cost-effect. The margin percentage works out pretty well in their favor to do the bogo. But it's pretty much the downside. Yeah, oh man. And skews and sunglasses are so pretty nice in a lot of ways. But yeah, I kind of like it. I think it makes sense for that type of product in a lot of ways. Although, I think the downside would be that AOV where it's like, who's really gonna buy more than a couple pairs? Maybe they're buying for gifts and maybe that's it. They're not playing AOV that day. They're playing on LTV and they're basically trying to drive high-order volumes and that sort of thing. Yeah, it might be a psychological thing. Well, they actually realize that a bigger driver for sales is not save. Well, I need to buy someone a gift. But actually, I can get a free pair for myself. Isn't that nice? I think that actually does pretty well. And sunglasses, if you do have a couple pairs, it's not like you're only gonna buy one single pair. There's a bunch of different designs. It's very interesting. Yeah, I think yours is not. Yeah, so many things to steal over that. It's me kind of want to try bogo. 'Cause I do like the bogo because when you have products across the board that are different, like I've got products that are $4, I've got products that are 160. They're probably then the cheaper product is the free product that could be really interesting with either really expensive thing, get something else that's sort of, it's like a choose your own gift with purchase in some ways. Which is, yeah, I like something that chew on. Yeah, come to think about it. I've thought about it a lot as well, but we also want people to buy accessories and stuff like that. Do I give someone accessory free with a bag? But then there's literally no reason to buy in the bag. I don't know. I've not really worked out how that would work for us, but I think for sunglasses, it works really well, I guess. Yeah, or someone like me that has a ton of different categories and they're probably different categories. Yeah, very interesting. I mean, you've done a Bogo stuff and it's worked out well for you in the past, so. Yeah, that's true. Bogo is one of my, or buy one, get one 50% off. That's another good offer, buy two, get one free, like that offer as well. I feel like I need to start recording all my offers into like a database and like trying to figure out what is the offer, because offer is so important and helpful to try and unlock the next level. Interesting, cool. Good, good, good BFCM stuff, is there anything else? We probably should wrap this up soon, but anything else that we didn't cover we should get to. No, just let us know. We guys are planning for BFCM, any any offers, any like marketing tactics, any finance tactics that we haven't thought of. I'd like to certainly like to hear them. Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of, a lot of good stuff out there and we don't know everything for sure. Definitely not. All right, thanks y'all. Five stars, let us know what you think. We'll see you later. See ya.