Beyond the Headlines S1E4 | On Your Own: Leaving Home, Education & Independence

When do you really become independent? Is it when you leave your parents home? When you start earning your own money? And when you learn to take care of yourself? And does independence mean the same thing in every country? And Marcella? And welcome to a special episode of the Last Week in Denmark Podcast. This is an irregular weekly news episode. Every two weeks we are taking a break from the news to explore a different part of life in Denmark through our new Evergreen series. This is season one and our team is a life in Denmark. Exploring the different stage of life in Denmark from the perspective of international living here. And joined today by Ophelia. Hi everyone, this is Ophelia. I'm so happy to be here joining you, Marcella. This is our first episode together. Yes, I'm so happy and so excited to speak with you, Ophelia. Thank you very much. Today by talking about what happened when June people started living in their own. How do they manage money? Find a place to live and make a decision about the studying or working. And how is the difference in Denmark compared to the other countries? Let's begin with own or stories. We both left home to study, but that didn't mean the same thing as becoming fully independent. How old were you when you first left home, Ophelia? And when did you feel you had really moved out for good? I first left home when I was around 20 or 21 to study in London. That was the first time I left my parents' home really to live on my own. And then later on, I was back in Hong Kong for work and then in between for the next eight to nine years, I was always in between London and Hong Kong London and Hong Kong. And then I permanently left Hong Kong moved back to London at around 29 or 30. What about you? I left my parents' home when I was 17 actually because the university was in another city. So if you want to study the university, you need to move to your parents' house. But I come back every weekend to my parents' house. So it doesn't feel that I was so independent actually because I do the laundry in my parents' house. Actually, I take food from my mom. But for me, it was the beginning. The started to feel that I can take my own decisions completely alone and not alone because actually I live with one of my sisters in that city. So it helps me a lot because I feel the support of the family. But it's different when you move to another city in my case was only 50 kilometers maybe. But you moved to another country. It was amazing. It was quite a big shock for myself. You know, growing up, it's actually not normal for classmates and friends to move abroad because there are usually a few milestones where my classmate or schoolmates would leave. Mostly to pursue educational abroad or maybe because their family were relocating. You know, in Hong Kong with the history, there are so many colonial history. So there are many families whose parents or grand parents migrated. Let's say to the state or Canada or Australia or the UK. And for a few generations, they stayed there and then their younger generations come back to Hong Kong. So those are some of my classmates. So some of them were even born in Canada or born in the state. And then back to Hong Kong, grow up and went to school. So it was actually quite normal for my classmates to leave usually maybe either around 15 and then 18 or 19 or after completing secondary school where they would either be at the intersection of now you have to hit the certain level examination, the A levels. And then maybe you have to choose between the science or the art streams when you're only 15 and they decided to just go abroad and do something else. So I've always had this idea of going abroad but I never really knew where I wanted to go. So for me to leave home and to go to a different country that was very exciting and daunting and also terrifying at the same time. Not the same as being able to go home and do the laundry and take food from the mom. Yes, you don't have the option. No, I was on my own. But what about your parents? We're happy. We're with dad and your friends. Guate tell you about this decision. Well, since I've been in between London and Hong Kong for so many years, they changed. You know, the first time I left, they were quite excited. They were quite happy for me. You know, it's like a new milestone. It's the first step towards independence where now you're really away from home. So of course, my mom was being a little bit emotional and thinking, oh, this is the first time my baby leaves home. And my father was very used to it because he wasn't, he was always in and out of home and traveling around so much for work. Anyway, so for him, it's part of life. Yes. So I came back and then, you know, like I said, for the next 18-10 years, I was always in between Hong Kong and London. So slowly, slowly, they got used to me being in between two countries. And then they started adapted to the fact that, okay, I'm either here or there. I'm not always full time here. I'm not always full time there. But my heart was always in London for some reason, even while I was working in Hong Kong. So while I was studying in Hong Kong or back in London, I would think about the other place. And it wasn't until, you know, when I was 29 that at work, I felt like I've hit a bottleneck situation at my career. And then my then relationship also ended. So there was nothing really there to hold me back from moving. Yes. And I thought, this is the chance to move back. And then, you know, start a new chapter, try it out while I'm still young. But was my parents happy? My father was almost kind of like, yeah, I know. And they weren't entirely very happy. Because till this day, they would still thought that I would just be away for a year or so. And even now, I've been in Denmark for almost eight years. Sometimes my dad still thinks I live in a UK. And he will still tell people that I'm in London. Yes, yes, yes. Now, I've been I was eight years ago that I moved. So I can't really answer for them. Are they happy for me to be away? I'm not sure. Are they happy for me to be around either? I'm not sure either. So what about your parents? At that time, my parents, it was a really shock, a big shock for them. Because in the city that I growing up, it was so normal. If you don't move away to the city, you're going to be married. If you are 20 or 18, it was so normal that that people that are getting married had kids. And actually, the thing that you move to another another city give the opportunity to you to to see another perspective, another reality, for example, for me to study a university. And when when it happened, it's really difficult that you come back to your your city, your with your family. It's like everything changed like you. Yeah. It is really difficult. And even you come back to Hong Kong, you come back in a different way. Yeah. You are not belong to your family anymore. So, so I think it was my mother always say, you need to study, you need to have a career because my my parents didn't have the opportunity to study. So, so for them, even they don't know for what, but they say, you need to study and all all my brothers and for me, it was the same advice you need to study. So, when I move to the other city, I think they they know that I never come back. And it's the reason that I feel sad, but both pros at the same time because they know that you have another opportunity to another perspective. So, for us, it's a really big challenge to move to another, even to another city, to another country, but here in Denmark, they move to another house also, not only to to another countries is something really different for them. Yeah, but I feel like a lot of days, yeah, they move to another house, they move out and then they maybe they have some parents help to get a house for them, but I feel like they don't really leave the country as much as we internationals do. Maybe the education system here is too good for them. I've heard a lot of them, you know, going abroad for maybe a semester or a year abroad and then come back to Denmark, but it's very rare that you meet Danes who left the country for very, very long. I've met a few of those, maybe they've moved to Asia or some other places and then that culture and that country fits their lifestyle and their career path, but a lot of them, I've heard that from my experience that they would eventually move back to Denmark because it's such a great place for them. Yes, maybe this is a really big difference for us. I don't know how do you see Hong Kong, but in my experience also, like you say, for Danish, come back to Denmark, it's the best option is they may be? Maybe the only option, because maybe they explore the world, they live another experience in another country, but they know that they come back to Denmark. But for us, maybe it is different for international in or experience. It is different. Do you think that at some point you want to come back to Hong Kong? No, I don't think I'm ever going to move back to Hong Kong. At one point, I thought of moving back to Hong Kong because of the opportunities there. And obviously all my friends and my whole foundation of my career was in Hong Kong. And it was booming. It's always, there's always opportunities and it's so close to the whole Asian region. So you have the proximity to China also, where it was also booming. But the quality of living is very different. You would need to really earn good money to be able to enjoy a quality life, like you would be here in Denmark. So it's a huge compromise to go back to Hong Kong after living in Euro for almost 17 years. And the whole pays, the culture, and everything. Like you said, once you move away, you go home different. And you kind of pick up a little culture here, a little habit there. And when you go home, you kind of feel like you're an expect in your own home. Yes. Which is also a weird feeling. No, I don't think I would want to move back to Hong Kong. It's too crowded. Too many people. It's a great place. I love it. Yes. It will always be home. It will always be fun. But I don't think I can manage that level of lifestyle where everything is just go-go-go. And so fast and so fast and so fast. No, not for me anymore. But never say never. At least for now and the foreseeable future, I don't see myself moving back. Would you move back to Mexico? No, I don't think so. In this kind of reflection that we have, I always know that since that time, when I moved to my parents' home, it was a really big change. And now, in another continent, for me, it's impossible. Of course, I love Mexico. I love everything. There are the people, the food, the weather, it's an amazing country. But we have a really serious problem with insecure and quality of life. So for me, it's not an option to come back. But I don't know. Like you say, we don't know what's happening in the future. But for now, I think Denmark is becoming my home now, so yeah, I don't do so. Maybe I give you a really deep question. Come back with the funny details. Do you have some problems with your roommates when you started to live or do you live alone? When do you move to your parents' house? I've always been very lucky with my roommates, if any, to be honest. And most of the times, I've lived alone. Ever since I moved out from my parents' house, I've always lived alone. The only roommates I've had was when I was in university in Hong Kong, actually. The last year, I shared the room with a really close friend of mine, so that was not a problem at all. And then probably the worst roommate would be my brother. So at one point, we're both studying in London, and we shared a house together. And he was just the worst roommate, because you know, it's kind of like you're living at home again, only that you have to take care of your brother. Yes. And he was constantly raiding your fridge. And if I have friends, I mean, all my friends knows him and he knows all my friends. So whenever my friends come here, it's really great fun. And it's really joyful. But you know, it's still you're brought. Now you have that extra responsibility to take care of your brother, because now your parents are away. So you have to keep an eye on him at the same time. And you don't want to, because he's old enough to be in London, right? And now he's still living with me. So why? Yeah, why, what are you doing? But yeah, I mean, I, other than that, I say he's the worst, he's not, he's not bad at all. It's just, you know, being a sibling, sharing the same household. Without your parents around, you can't really just call mom and you can't call dad and no one is going to be handling all your conflicts. So you have to deal with everything yourself. But other than that, I have hallmates. My other hallmates are very, very lovely people and they come from different places, like they've come from Spain, they come from Greece, they come from South Africa and everyone just being lovely. So I, I have been very lucky in that sense. What about you? Do you have any dramatic roommate stories? No, not really dramatic, but I am in the other side because my sister invited to me to live with, with a hair. So now I know what about my sister though, but actually she invited me because she has a lot of planes for us to share the meals, to share the, actually to share the expenses, the rent, the things that they need to the house. And it was a really lovely time that we share, but I don't know is because we are a woman, because when I live with a, with a man, with a man's roommate, it was a disaster because they, actually they didn't wash the kitchen, for example, they are not so clean. So, so it was a bad experience for me, but, but it is something is different here in, in Denmark, because I have an experience that men here in Denmark are so independent. They know how to cooking, they know how to clean. I don't know even the perfect way that we want, but in my experience, compared to Latin America is totally different, because in Latin America we have this kind of tradition that a woman need to take care, the men need to do the things in the house, the cleaning, and it is something, for example, it's something that I, I don't really agree with that, but it's something automatic, when, when my brothers come house or my father, I want to give them the things that they need, and I think it's something so normal that the woman gives that tension to the men. So it's actually here in Denmark, in my husband is from Mexico too, so for me it's so normal to prepare the food and clean and be with the kids, but it's totally normal. So in, but in the street, you see the, the, the Danish men with the babies, the Danish men cooking really good, and I think it's something relating to this kind of independence, because they move away to the house, and they need to learn how to clean, how to cook, and I think it's really, really useful for, for life, what do you think? I agree, absolutely agree. I think that's the upside of having these teenagers being independent, so young, moving out, moving away from your family, so you really have to survive on your own, right? And it doesn't really matter how well you cook, at least you know how to cook that you're not going to starve, and I think that kind of trains them into the mindset of thinking, this is a household, this is part of the routine, this is what you can do, it becomes a normality for them, I think, and they don't expect food to be served, you know, by another person, and if you share, let's with someone, then everyone has an equal share of looking after the same place you live. Actually, I find this number that sounds interesting for me, because according to your stat in 2024, young people in Denmark left their parents home at an average of 21.7 compared with 26.2 across the EU, that's a big difference, but it is just cultural, or it's more support to make it possible, when you compare Denmark with Hong Kong, what surprise you most about the age, people leave home, ooh, that's going to take a while to answer. Yes, I feel like when we compare Denmark with Hong Kong, it's not just about the age where people leave home, obviously every family has a very unique dynamic, and every person leave home or stay home for a different reason, it's very hard to generalize it, but I would say definitely the age of people leaving home in Denmark is way younger than the ones in Hong Kong. Well earlier, I mentioned that a lot of my classmates were sent abroad, or maybe they left school at a very young age to pursue education, so that's also one thing when they leave home, but whether they come back or they stay in the country, that's another story. But we just talk about, you know, becoming independent and moving away from the family, in Hong Kong, in general, people move out way later in their life, not because they don't want to, but because it's just too tough and expensive to live alone in Hong Kong, you know, you make a good salary, okay, that's fair, the tax is not as high, but the rent is It's very high in Hong Kong, a commutation is easily taking up. half of your salary and the cost of living is just really high. So for convenience, for saving money, it's always easier to live at home with your family and no one would, no one would condemn you for that. No one would teach you and say, "We are mama boy, you are, you know, your daddy's girl." It's just average. And also you have to remember that there are 7.8 million people in Hong Kong, which is tiny, tiny, tiny city for a lot of people. So space is very rare and sacred, hence the very high rent. So people would want to move out for privacy and for more space. But at the same time, it's a huge sacrifice on money. If you spend all your money on living on your own, you have not much left for a life outside of your living. So a lot of them would maybe move out until they get married, you know, in their 30s or even 40s. And if they decided to choose to be single, then maybe they would just stay home until they feel ready or save up enough to buy something. So I'm not saying that there are no young people moving out of from home, because, you know, the range of wealth in Hong Kong, it's very wide. So there are always both sides of the stories. But in general, I would say average, maybe 30s, 30s, if you can move out from home and buy a place or rent a place and live alone, that would be considered an accomplishment, actually, because you can afford that. Yes. Is it the same in Mexico? Yeah, like you're saying, Hong Kong is really difficult to say that in Mexico, there is a one way because we are a country with 130 millions of people. So it's crazy that we can say that there is a one. But something that I think that I see in my experience or where I know about Mexico is more city is something normal that when you are in your 20s, you had a job, the job that you can go because you didn't go to the university. So you have your job, your life, and in a small city, it's not so expensive, it's not so crazy. So it's easy to get married, to have kids, but actually depend to the economics situation. Maybe you can live with your parents also with your family in this kind, there is this kind of houses, we share expenses, share space, actually, because your mother helped you to with the kids is like a community, a little community. But in the big cities, it's more the same like in in the another country. It's really difficult to buy or to rent, maybe at the beginning, you need to live with your friends and good your brothers or something, because it's really difficult to pay. In Mexico City, the rents are so, so high, and there is a really big discussion about the Airbnb and this kind of situation that every house that are by level so expensive and it's really, really difficult to pay and it's more and more difficult. Even if you have a good salary, you cannot afford this kind of rent. So like we say, it's not only one factor is many factors, maybe you want to build a family, maybe you want to go away to your parents' company, it's not possible. But in my experience, like I can see here in Denmark, it's different because I think the system, the government, they support the young people, because I see that young people can pay a rent, actually, there is this kind of buildings, totally focusing on students, people, and they can live near to the university, for example, and for me, they have a really good quality because I have some friends that live there and they have the clean spaces, they have all the laundry, the place to sleep, the place to cook and for me, is a really easy way to become independent because you have support to the society. At the same time, you have a kind of support to your parents because in Denmark, it's so normal that parents have a good quality of life. For example, in Mexico, sometimes like it was my case, when I started to work, I need to help to my family to cover the expenses. So it's so difficult to think and independence, but you have these kind of problems. You need to pay debts or the IE is totally different. Where is your experience with the young people here in Denmark? How do you see this situation here? I think they are in a really privileged place, to be honest. First of all, they don't have to pay for school, for education. What I mean is that it's EU citizens and Nordics in general. Internationals like us, we would serve to pay. I actually have a friend who came from New Zealand to study law, masters, and he can pay for the school fee, but he was on a full scholarship. So lucky him, he also said that without the full scholarship, he probably wouldn't consider coming to Copenhagen to study the masters degree because it is quite expensive. Like you said, the places for students who live here are really great. And I remember him telling me, his student hall was actually the block of buildings right outside Round Tower, and it's bang on central, and it's so good. And it's just a nice environment. Like you said, everything is already there with the foundation, and it's a good setup for youngsters to learn how to be independent while staying close to home and taking the stress off financial off their mind. And I would think this is a very privileged place to be as a young person who wants to pursue an education because my parents didn't go to university. My father wasn't much of an academic. He didn't like school. He was the first one out as soon as it's done, but my mom actually liked studying, but she was accepted by university program, but she couldn't go because of financial issues. At that point, I don't know if the government ground loan would be possible or scholarship was possible for her, but she didn't have the money to go. So it was a big regret in her life. And that's why they were very, very supportive and generous towards me and my brother when it comes to everything in relation to education, they will be more than happy to encourage me to go pay for my school fees and sponsoring the bigger part of living costs if it's needed to be helped. So it's like your parents, they understand the opportunity that comes with education. Yes. That comes with the possibility of opening doors and maybe between the generations then and now the difference is way bigger because back then, if you have an university degree, you are more elite. Yes. You basically, you're scared, right? Now everyone seems to be like, okay, we don't have a master's degree yet, but still having access to education without the stress of having to pay for education, it's such a great privilege to have. And I think everyone should be entitled to that. So I think the youngsters here are very privileged. Yes. Yes. Actually, it's really interesting to hear these kind of stories for them or for international hearing Denmark, because maybe sometimes we think that everything that we see in these countries is normal is the natural thing, but it's not a natural thing. Actually, when I started to job in Mexico, I was 14. I started to work as a cashier in a supermarket and now some of my daughter's friends work in a supermarket as a cashier. But the money that they earn in one hour, I earned that money in one day. It's so funny. I know that it was maybe more than 20 years ago. I understand. But actually, I know that this salary is still in Mexico. Actually, when I started to work, that gave me a lot of information because I had some co-workers, partners in the supermarket that they have kids. So I started to work because I want to buy a cell phone, I want to buy clothes, I want to hang out. But when I started to see, okay, if I don't have the opportunity to study, if I need to work here in my adult life, this will be my salary. And Guadalupe my reality, I know the kind of quality that they have. And that gave me a lot of information, a lot of reasons to do my best and in the school because I have a plan. And I know what Guadalupe I don't want to my life is really important. So now knowing the people hearing them, or maybe they don't know. They don't know that it's difficult to have this kind of quality of life with a good salary, with not a lot of hours because they can work, for example, 10 or 12 hours per week and they can have their opportunity to have a money from the government and the free education. Actually, it is so funny for me, so interesting, the kind of money that the government invests for them. When my daughter was in 9th grade, they have a really big event for show them what opportunities they can learn a lot of different kind of, in this kind of guppnession, is the name that the school before to the university, hitting Denmark, and they are in 9th grade, they can go to 10th grade or the after school that you will speak in the last episode with Meron. But they have time to decide what kind of guppnession they can choose, but the quality of the schools are so high, so high, they can have a lot of diversity of opportunities, and then when they finish this part of their life, they have this kind of big events, do you know this kind of event that they go in a truck with a lot of alcohol with this cat? Yeah, yeah, love me, Greg, yeah, tell me, tell me, how do you see this kind of tradition if you did Denmark, how do you experience that? Did you know that the last weekend Denmark newsletter is available in more than 8 languages? Hey there, this is Phil from the last weekend Denmark podcast. Every week, you're tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts sift through the C of Danish News and fish out the stories most likely to matter to international living here. That means Danish Culture, Society and Politics, along with their own first-hand experiences and the occasional tip to help you feel a little more at home. But let's be real, as international's many of us are already juggling English, Danish and our own native languages, so why not make things a little easier and read the week's most important Danish News in the language that feels most natural to you? Thanks to our brilliant multi-lingual volunteers, the newsletter is available not only in English, but also Romanian, Polish, Spanish, Turkish, Italian, German, Hungarian and Ukrainian. So head on over to our website, LWID.dk, that's LWID.dk, choose your language and sign up. You'll get the latest edition delivered straight to your inbox every Sunday. I think it's very interesting, you know, because this is the only place I have seen such a tradition, and it's so celebrated, you know, it's like the whole society is celebrating these young people graduating and reaching a milestone and encouraging them to have fun, which is beautiful in a way, because if you think of the culture in Hong Kong or the culture in Mexico, maybe I don't understand fully. Once you graduate it, great, now, next, what's next, get a job or get married, make money, you know, and drinking also last week, when the week before we talked about the alcohol discernment and the amount of drinking and partying for teenagers, it is part of their life, their growing up and their independence to find out when they should stop and what's the level of tolerance of the body towards all these partying and alcohol, right? So it is very nice in the way that the society and the parents are embracing that say, "Okay, go have fun, now you have done something great, let's celebrate you, let's be a teenager, let's be a young adult," and the beginning of your independence before you go to uni. And so for me, as an outsider to see all these trucks driving by and having these students, it's actually quite interesting and beautiful at the same time, it reminds you of the joy of youth in a way that you are allowed to do so many things and it's full of opportunities and potential and a bright future ahead. And then you look at yourself and you're like, "Huh, now your adulting begins." Yeah, this is where life truly begins and loves it. You don't know what next. No, you have no idea what's waiting for you. You have reason to be happy, but you don't know why. Yeah, maybe that's the reason why they let them enjoy now, like this is the time and place to really enjoy without thinking about responsibility. Yeah, and now I need to learn how to see the alcohol in a different way, when I came here to Denmark and I started to see the first time that I see the Paré here in Albor, the carnival. So, no, it's impossible, everyone is drunk, it's crazy, this is so my Gomorra, no, I don't know what this kind of version in my life, yeah, it was so short for me because I see the drunk people maybe 13 or 14, I don't know, it was so short, but now when I hear you, I understand. Yeah, it's the opportunity that they have actually, there is a big discussion about the alcohol here in Denmark, I read something about a leader in a magnesium that he say here in Albor, he wants that actually in the magnesium, there is beer, there is alcohol, there is something normal at the paré and many things that is bad things because the school, it needs to be a place where you are learning, where you don't want to be drunk, it is something not so good for the education, but he says something really interesting is better than they drink alcohol at the school, if there is a problem they can help them, is the part of the life that you can learn how to become an adult, so the society helps them to find a way, maybe I understand that every vision is totally valid in this topic, but for me, I am changing my mind about alcohol because my daughter is 16, so I know now she is not drinking in this time, but I understand that in any moment she can decide, started to drink and for me is better that she has the information and in general when she had the Paris, actually the adults in the boss, for me is sure, I joke people drunk alone in the boss, in Mexico, you are dead, it's not possible, it's not possible but here the people in the strangers in the boss say okay, I check when the boy arrived to his home, so it's another perspective about the alcohol, this kind of freedom, this kind of security maybe that they can have. Yeah, I think it is also a very important lesson to learn when you leave home, because you are on your own, especially as a girl, I remember that was the first thing I learned how to do is to learn how to drink by going to parties and drinking, because you never know your tolerance and the level and how your body is going to respond to it, it sounds silly and counter intuitive, but you only know through drinking, you know, at one point and you also know your body is going to respond to it at a different state depending on how well and how fit you are, you know, so I think for a girl it's very important to learn to drink and know how to drink and when to stop, that's the first thing I told my niece, who just her 19, and she's studying in Hamburg, no actually in Munich, and it's funny because we talk about this now, this is her first time truly leaving home, so this is her first independence, she was sent to Hamburg to live with her, got parents, got grandparents for a while, so for her she's kind of okay away from home, but she's always, she's still partly, you know, in the extended family, and now that she moved to new universities, starting her school, and then moving into a new play, sharing flats with random people that she has never met before, this is truly her first independence, and I was checking in on her the other day and asking how she's doing, she seems to be doing fine, but she also confesses to me saying it's a little bit scary and a bit lonely, yes, to be, to be away from home, it's the new farm freedom, she's already very independent, she knows how to cook, she knows how to take her off herself very well, and she's very sensible, I also told her that you need to go out party and have fun, you know, live life, enjoy, but stay cautious, you know, don't go too crazy, anything that is a little bit of, if your god is telling you something's off, then just leave, that's the only thing I can tell you, but don't live in fear, it's nice to see them growing up, but it's also a little bit scary to watch on the side, because you never know what's going to happen to them, especially as a girl, and we've all been there, going to parties, and you know, you do stupid things, and you miss stupid people, and things happen, and you're like, oh, I wish that didn't happen. But you have a daughter who is turning 16, so you must have been through the whole graduation and the secondary schools and the gymnasium, and was she on one of those trucks, and with those trucks, now she's in Hottiex, is one technical gymnasium, but she's still in she is in first grade and this kind of hat they give you when you finish your gibnessium and actually it is something funny for me also because they wait time when they go to the afterschool sometimes they use Guar or two years or sometimes one year in the afterschool to decide what kind of gibness you because when you choose the gibnessium you choose the line to the university for example now my daughter is in this hotiex and is mathematics and physics and chemics but for example if you to the almenly to the general gibnessium you have the opportunity more for a literature or administration on this kind so I think it's a good idea that they can wait to take this kind of decision because because it's a really big decision like like you say in our countries in our experience is okay you need to choose your career because you need to you need to earn money you need to be a better person with this kind of salary but here's not you're a good person your value is good since you're born and then you can choose your your profession but it's not something crucial it's not something that defines you so I think it's good that they take this kind of time in the gibnessium to leave to explore to earn and this kind of support the S.U. that the government give them is helping a lot do you have information about S.U. do you hear about that? I only know that the S.U. is given according to the household income and it depends on how many people are living in the house and how old they are so they are not always the same and sometimes they are a bit higher and it should be able to cover your rent if you don't live with your family but they are a bit lower if you still live at home that's my understanding yes I don't have a lot of information actually if someone wants to know the exactly amount there is a lot of information on the internet of Agujur commune you can ask but but is a is a support that the government give to the job people that like you say they can pay the rent they can use the money actually now at days there is a this kind of discussion if if some some families they that with high incomes they receive the S.U. or not but like I read and I understand for Danish people it's so important for for this kind of thing that we are discussion is it's not only the money is the way that they have the opportunity to explore to administrators to use the money in a good way yeah so it's not only about money maybe they don't need the money but is it's important that they have their own money or learn how to how to manage this that's true yes yeah that's a very healthy way to slowly give them the idea of how to manage the money and financial budgeting yes yes so maybe we can speak a little more about Guarisa Danish team or Guarisa international thing yeah so for example the graduation truck feel particularly Danish to me and gap years are in unique to Denmark but they were more less common my own experience grown up in Mexico so let's do a quick round I say something to you and you tell me that is true on international thing receiving money from the state Guarisa student maybe it's a wider Nordics in the welfare state not so much a Danish only thing driving around in an open trunk with your graduate is a Danish thing probably a Danish thing I haven't seen it elsewhere but I also haven't lived in any other Nordic countries so I can't say for all yes I haven't been in London or Hong Kong for sure I can tell you that yes but how they celebrate in Hong Kong when when you finish your the Gipnesium before the university the school before the university there's usually a graduation ceremony at school and then you get to wear the gowns and then then the rest is just really up to you you know it's like an evening program speeches maybe there are warts if there are and then your parents are invited and then you take pictures at school and then it's pretty much up to what you want to do you know some people might do a celebratory dinner some people might walk around in the city with the gowns and take pictures everywhere some might just go home but definitely we don't have a celebratory truck like in Denmark yeah for example wearing a special graduation cap for weeks it is something here no I think it's here yeah we don't have any caps you know we have the graduation gown with different colors and then you also have the little hat that goes with but that's usually a rental you don't get to keep it yeah of course you want to buy it for yourself maybe be part for the PhD graduations but all my gowns were rentals and I never even had yeah but here they have these the hat is yeah they use all the week and they can sign their clothes and it's a really because they I learned that the color of the hat is the pens of the school so it's a symbolic things it's a really symbolic to this is something then it's only then is if someone in the audience know another part of the world that they do something is interesting that they comment and tell you because we don't know we don't know another part yeah do you know the colors they stand for what is the color of the cap what what kind of subjects or streams they stand for actually yes I investigated now I know for the for the hot TX I told you but for STX is is rev this STX is the general like I told you is is more common is the general gibnessium for the H H X is Ho Ho X is the business is Royal blue is royal blue when you see a royal blue you see this is a business guy the hot TX my daughter is a technical and the color is navy blue actually my daughter told me that if you take the three three subjects in a level A the highest level they give you a black hat and it's something more special because you have for example mathematics, chemistry, physics, the tree, difficult subjects in A if you finish they do have an special hat and is black and another is a H F this is more a handless color is is more something like mechanic or or this is not for university it's a technical career you can yeah you can work as soon as you finish is like blue and the E O X is the gray is the IB is international actually the the gibbonation international yeah is I don't know if it's exactly the color but it's something that I investigate I hope you cannot trust me but I think in general there is the color that's really cool. Taking one or several gap years before university is something that is sure no no I know a lot of Brits and Americans they do it and I and I believe in a wider European school they also do it I think it's very encouraged for people to take a gap year to travel around or maybe do some voluntary work before going to universities also like you said to give you time and space in the luxury to think about what do you really want to do yes and there's no rush in pursuing a degree yes maybe something a normal heating Europe but like we speak before the difference between Danish on the on the rest of the Europeans countries is is big so is definitely is something that happened hidden in Denmark different to the Spain or France or Italy is is different yeah it's not normally not gone though no no maybe in the current generations they do maybe it's getting a little bit more popular or common that we want to take some time to travel the world and and think about what they want to do but when I was growing up it was almost unheard of it would be you know you're like you go straight from secondary school to university and then you go straight from university while you're there you already look for some internships and jobs and part-time jobs to get you to the job as soon as possible especially those who want to get into finance yes you know they would always wanted to plan the summers around while people are traveling in summer yeah maybe the summer holidays are the little mini gap years yes but for those who really want a prominent career path they would already be planning maybe one summer internship in Morgan Stanley and then the next summer internship at the JP Morgan, so you are already there learning the ropes and you are already getting touched with the people, then once you graduate, you are hired and you have a higher chance. So in Hong Kong, the pace is so, so, so quick like everyone is competing with time. Yes. You don't have time to spare, you don't have time to waste. Yeah, I remember that in another episode I hear that you say that when, when people don't have this continuity, it looks that you are not so formal or dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I was totally agree with you because in Mexico it's the same, you're going to ask why you don't choose the university. You're to team? Why do you, do you have time to team? What are you going to think about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You choose something and then you discover if it is good or not or whatever, but you need to choose something is really, really awful if you don't decide in a quickly decision. Yeah, very stressful. Moving into an apartment contain almost nothing and furnishing it through a care marketplace and things found on the street. Is that Danish thing? No, absolutely not. I think it's more about the money and personal choice. It's pretty universal. I have friends who found things on the street to move into the place, both in Denmark and in the UK and in other places. Yeah. But I also have friends who move in a fully furnished place and renovating it in the highest quality possible. So it's not a Danish thing, I'm saying. Okay, but let me say that the Danish thing is that you can find a really, really good things in the street with a really quality. Yeah, almost new. I find some things outside of the homes and with a really, really good condition. I ask me, why you choose this? Because they just want a new one. Yeah, okay, or maybe two or three or more. Okay, going home to your parents primarily to Lundry or food is international. I think it's international. Yeah. If you have the choice, then why not? Yeah, yeah. I remember that's what I did when I was living in the student hall last year in Hong Kong. I live rather close by. So I only needed a student hall because I was training so much and I had really long class schedules. So me and my friend applied for the hall, that's why we share the room. But both of us actually took the laundry home. My friends actually lived 15 minutes away from workplace. I was maybe 30 minutes away. Hong Kong is very small. Okay, so we never really did any laundry at the at the home that year. This is a privilege. This is a privilege. This is a privilege. Okay, before we finish, let's share what independence to us. We have talk about living home, studying, money, and finding a place to live. But the biggest lesson is that independence is a process. Not a single bit, or movement day. I will add your fair of failure and then I will share mine. When did you first genuinely feel that you could take care of yourself? I don't think there was a significant moment where I realized I could take care of myself, but definitely when I left Hong Kong and on my own in a different country, that's where I started to feel I am really on my own now. And you have to be really careful with everything. Basically, you know, every day is a survival skills one or one lesson. Of course, all the basic things like cooking, laundry, and then you have to learn because each place comes with a different set of instructions or you just have to navigate around. But it's a different level of taking care of yourself when you make decisions for yourself that you know it's right and the best for you and you know, managing your own budget and finance and running a household and planning your days around. It's really not just about the daily things and habits that you do. Of course, you have to build a foundation of where you're living and in the community and you find the places you need to go. It's also on a deeper level, you know, emotionally, how do you handle homesick, how do you handle missing your friends and sometimes being alone and being feeling lonely, especially when you're sick and not having someone to take care of you and not having your closest doctor nearby. It is a struggle and then just navigating bureaucracy and then on a mental health level, how do you go through every day in a new country and a new culture, meeting new friends while getting on with your life at the same time and keeping a part of yourself staying true to who you are not trying to be swayed around. I feel like it's a gradual thing that slowly, slowly, you kind of settle everything one step after another and at one point, you just realize, okay, now you are fully responsible for yourself. That's when I feel like I can really take care of myself. You know, it's also living abroad. It's not just fun. Some days, there are struggles that you don't really talk with others. You don't want to worry about family and friends and even if you do, there's nothing much they can do to help you practically because they are so far away and they don't know the system as much as you do. So you really have to navigate and go through all of that on your own. And that's when you realize this is really the time that you have to take care of yourself, your soul, your mind, your mental health because it can easily break you. It could easily destroy the whole experience of living abroad. So I do think it's, I don't know when that I first genuinely feel that I could take care of myself. Definitely not the first day I left home, took a while. It's a learning curve. I feel like there will always be something more that you can feel that you can take care of yourself better or in different aspects. Yes. That was a long answer. Yeah, no, no, but I'm totally agree with you because it's a process and maybe something that you need to build day by day. Actually, now I have kids. I have two kids. I know I need to be independent. I need to care to other human and sometimes I feel, am I really independent as well? I totally understand. Maybe I'm really good at a point that to check that if you are independent, this is when you are worried that the others are worried for you. It's a really good signal for your independence. Like you say, I don't want to worry my parents because I have already known and it's difficult that they help me. So I think it's a really good moment, but like you, for me, it is a way that now at my 40, almost 40 years old, I continue to discover in another situation in my life. But now for a less serious one, where is this stupidest mistake you made when you first live alone? That must be when I moved out in London. It must be when I spent so much money on furniture and things for a temporary place that eventually I can't take them with me. Because I was in and out of London and Hong Kong. So there are things that I had to throw away without thinking because it's just impossible to bring everything back to Hong Kong. It will be so expensive. There's the luggage allowance and shipping and all that. It just isn't worth it. But at that time, when I bought all these things, I was hoping with my intention that it's going to make my place more organized, more nice, and it's more cozy. And if you're like me and I decorate the place, it was a mistake. It was a, it was really a stupid mistake. You look at all these things and it's just a waste of money for a temporary time. I definitely have learned from that mistake now and have become very smart and savvy on what to buy. Yes. So here in Denmark, like the places are so small, you need to be really intelligent to buy only the things that you need because you don't have enough space to buy. Where about you? When maybe eat a lot outside of home. Oh, that's true. Because there is unhealthy and is expensive. And yeah, yeah, it's not, it's not a really, for me, it is something that I used to eat a lot of times outside of home. And I think it was my stupidest mistake. If I'm 18 or 20 years old international, what's the worst to start their independent life in Denmark tomorrow, like my daughter? What's the one thing you will tell them? I think after a conversation, I would definitely tell them this is the best place to learn how to be independent at this age is a safe place. It has a good setup, it has a good support, but also remember in other places, sometimes life is not that easy, but this is a very good place to start an independent life to learn everything to get a taste of it and get a good grip. I think it kind of built a good foundation in a way and won't be afraid to just enjoy, you know, you only learn through living and don't let fear limit you and just have fun but be careful at the same time. Yes. Because that market's a very trusting society and it's really good that it's very safe and you're very trusting. Yes. But we both know in Asia and in Mexico there are bad things happening also. Yes. That people are. Yes. People are using and abusing other people's kindness to do bad things. Yeah. So one thing I would say is that as trusting as it can be always taken with the pinch of salt, you know, not being skeptical and living in fear but also be aware that there is also always a dark side too. Yes. And human beings, you know, it's just yes. Yeah. You always have to just be very cautious with who you are with. Yes. Yes. I think it's a really, really perfect reflection to finish this interesting episode because young people need to learn a lot about the experience. And here in Denmark, about the experience outside Denmark, I think it's really useful for them because they can enjoy this kind of good environment but also they need to be aware that there is another realities in the world I think is something really important that they need to learn. It's also that I can't help because I volunteer for an anti-human trafficking NGO in Denmark. So I hear a lot of stories and I meet with these people who unfortunately are trafficked into Denmark. So it's very hard to ignore the fact that this is something it's happening even in a society like Denmark and in Scandinavia. Yes. I don't want to put too much fear out but this is just, you know, a different side to the society where we should be aware of. Yeah, I think we can we can keep the balance. It's important, enjoy, but don't forget that things happen and Denmark and all the country are part of the world and like you say, something in the human body as so. Thank you, Felia. Thank you for this interesting conversation and we will see you the next time in the next episode. Yes. Do you live home? Do you have your own place, your own money and are not very telling you when to come home? Inevitably, things become complicated. Next time, love, dating, living together and marriage, Danish style. It's going to be a fun episode next week. I'm ready. I am. I am. Thank you very much, Felia. Thank you, Mazzala. That's all for this special episode of last week in Denmark. This was part of for a life in Denmark evergreen series which come out every two weeks. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving us a review and sharing the postcard with someone you know. And don't forget our regular last week in Denmark episode are released every week covering the last news, stories and developments from Denmark. Make sure you are following us subscribing so you don't miss either. Thanks for listening and we will see you in two weeks. Bye! Bye bye!