Beyond the Exit: Redefining Success from the Inside Out

Welcome back to our Splendor realities. The space where we explored the inner world the shape how we live, live and connect. These episodes, especially for founders, creatives and professionals who achieved a lot on the outside, but are quietly asking deeper questions on the inside. If you've ever wondered what success really means beyond titles, exits and milestones, you are in the right place. Today I'm excited to introduce the guest host, Gernie Spannsworth, the outside editor innovation and the inner editor of Pepples. Frank Gessner is a tech pioneer who helped build one of the world's first online stores and went on to found and scale multiple global companies. But beyond the impressive milestones, Frank brings something rare to the table, deep reflection, humility and clarity about what truly matters. Today, Frank works with founders and leaders who want more than growth for growth's sake. He helps them navigate the inner side of leadership, managing themselves, making online decisions and redefining success in the way that foods are honest and whole. This is going to be a rich grounded conversation. Welcome to our Splendor realities, Frank. It's so good to have you. Thank you for having me really looking forward to having this lot with you. Thank you. You're welcome. Looking back on your early days in tech, what did that fast pace environment teach you about yourself? Not just about business. Well, actually I grew up in Eastern Germany, a commonist and part of Germany. And then when I turned 1920, I had the luxury to be able to go to university, which was seen as nearly impossible in the dark times before. Through the GDR, East German, communism, communist system. So I could study computer science, actually. And technology and the internet, this was kind of freedom. This was your everyone can do everything online, at least at these days. So it was deeply connected with the biggest desire I had. And this is freedom, being global, traveling. So I build up companies after companies, most of them were tech companies. It indicates, and I thought it was really decades, I build up companies from very small to many, many thousand employees, two of them even went public, two of the top 10 IPOs in Europe, were companies of mine. So technology, building up teams, personal growth, letting team grow. So this was my entire life. Over the years of founding and scaling companies, how did your relationship with pressure and responsibility evolve? Well, and at the older I get, the more pressure is getting more difficult, I think the younger I am, I was maybe my ability to take risks was higher. At least kind of it's the feeling now, obviously, something that was seen as difficult before, I would say, well, today I have enough experience. I know how to handle this type of stuff, but in every company, every year, something is new. You cannot really just repeat what you have done before, but pressure. And then you have external pressure and you have internal pressures. The external pressure is whatever money is going down, cash bonus to a high, or you have to worry about how to sell the net, or how to pay the next payroll or others. But there's also this internal pressure, which is with many entrepreneurs and founders. I am a really good leader, I'm actually doing good here. I am a good entrepreneur, and even after building up so many large companies, I was questioning myself all the time. I am a good leader. I am a good entrepreneur. I really do also good for the society, not only kind of whatever building up the next million revenue, but also do I have a good impact on the world. And then that comes down to, you know, what do I do? What do I really want? And I think this is especially something most of the entrepreneurs struggle. They know kind of they know the business opportunity, but what do they really want? This is something I see over and over in my mentoring of entrepreneurs, my coaching, that this is kind of, yeah, this is. And then a lot of internal pressure comes. Yeah, many leaders push through this conference for years. What's the last thought with a something deeper and needed attention beyond performance and results? Right. Yes, I've seen this. And so for 12 years now, I do mentoring for entrepreneurs, helping them to grow, to become better versions of themselves, you know, to thrive or to succeed. And most of them, they come to me with a business question like, you know, what? My company is not scaling fast enough or I want to sell my company, but I don't know how or whatever this in this leadership is not working or lost whatever this type of part of the business, whatever kind of they come with a business topic. And then when I then ask a simple question like, you know, what, what do you really want? I mean, what is, why do you want to sell your company? Why do you want to grow this company? What is, what is, what is actually what you want? And then people struggle to really kind of in the 12 years, no one could answer this so far, right? And this is what I then helped them with the models I've developed to find this out. But this is, and I think a pre-condition to lead other authors is that you can lead yourself. And if you don't have a clarity of vision for yourself, how can you win authors to follow you? Then you try to use tools, leadership tools, you do whatever best practice, leadership, and methodologies, but this is not without build companies, we build teams. And for this, you have to be able to excel in leadership. And the pre-condition is that you know what you want for yourself. Kind of, at least kind of this is my learning after three case, three decades as not winner. How do you help lead us to agree between decisions driven by fear or expectation? Vessels, those driven by clarity and alignment. Well, this is, I think that's the difference is long term versus short term decisions, right? Kind of if you're just reacting on the external challenges like whatever next Monday, the bot meeting needs to be prepared or this customer has this additional request or we run out of business, you're always in a type of reacting mode, not really, not really kind of building something extra ordinary or something what you really want. And what you really want is usually kind of the best implementation of your own why. Once you found your own why, which is, which is what are your core values? What is really kind of your, you know, set in stone type of rules you want to follow and everyone else to follow? What is your, what are your priorities in life? What is really actually important and third, what is really trying, what is your passion, what is your purpose? What is actually what gives you energy to more you do this and and then you have clarity about your why and you build a company that is best implementing this why everyone will follow you, everyone will want to be part of it. And you can find your why in every business model if it's environmental change or toilet paper, you can find a why everywhere, right? And you can find a kind of which is, which is exciting and which is also good for everyone who is who is affected by it every stakeholder was in a habit or practices have helped you stay grounded during times of uncertainty or media transition. Yeah, I mean, you have you have a you know, especially us not the manure you always have sex, you always, you know, someone is someone is kind of kicking you down or you have, you know, something that was super exciting in the beginning is. You know, you lose it or it's failing and and you know, something's for sure, even mean from outside perspective, super successful companies, you have very dark times as an entrepreneur responsible for larger teams and for the outside impression and for everything and you have these kickbacks anyway or these setbacks, what helps you to go over this and this is think is clarity is clarity of vision clarity of your why. Why are doing this why do we build up this company what is and this is not I mean, obviously you need revenue you need profit without this is is you know nothing is sustainable but if you really found the why behind it and how it aligns with your own why and this could be whatever type of technical innovation or that you want to have an impact in this certain industry or that you want to solve a certain problem where you might even have a person relation with you. You know, if you have a person relationship to whatever if you have kind of clarity about your why and about the vision how this should look like which is which could be also a vision like, you know, independent of what we do this is the way I want our team to work together or this is how you want to do certain things if this is if there is clarity, you have resilience right you have you build up. of muscles that issue get kicked out. Did you say, 'Yeah, but there is something much bigger than myself.' Right? And this is kind of, 'Keep going is so important.' Right? It's not about me. It's not about my own ego. It's about whatever. That's why this is something what we're doing. Then having a good methodology around it, like this live pilot system I'm using, or there's a business-craw system is called Bloomcrawls, many people know, kind of if you have kind of a little bit structure around it makes it easier. And certainly also in the past, for resilience, but really for self-awareness. Why do you think that balance matters so much? Yeah, well, first, I think at the moment there is a lot of many people speak about resilience and not so much about robustness. And for me, the difference is resilience, I think, is the ability that if you got kicked out on your ability to stand up again on the keep going. This is resilience. And robustness is kind of to prevent that you fall down. All right, kind of that you say, well, I built a team around me. We have a clarity of our vision. We have found our why. We have done certain preparations. We kind of, and I think that this also may be something that comes by experience over the years or the decades, in my case, that I think my investment into robustness went up the last years. And I think before I was more investing into resilience and not so much into robustness. And I think that makes the difference. Most of the stuff is mental. It's kind of our own mindset, how we deal with it. Sometimes it's so much, so kind of long-term, so much backer, a better chest to stay to your core values and to do what it feels right, even if it's a short-term disadvantage to you. And if you have clarity about your values, your purpose, what's driving you, your why, what's actually mean for you. If your team around you has clarity about what you as a leader think, and they have their moral follow-it-is, no one can kill you. It's impossible. You are strong, you are robust. You don't even need that much resilience, you are robust. So when you talk about robustness, is that same with self-awareness? Yeah, that's kind of part of it, of robustness. Self-awareness is kind of having found what drives you, what you want personally. And this is not kind of asthma under the nerve. How many underbeeners spend so much effort to build up a successful business realizing that over the course they have lost their family, their marriages, their health, their friends. And you see this over and over, or how many underbeeners build up companies that don't really want. Whatever their build-up company with business model A, then their pivot into a different business model, end up in whatever, having a consulting company or whatever kind of something that don't even like. And if you do something which is not really your why or which is not obviously you're not really robust, right? Kind of external stress, external incidents kick you down much easier than when you say no, I do exactly what I, what gives me the more I do it, the more energy I get. When leaders feel disconnected or burned out, what's you really going on beneath this office? Well, I think a burn out, I think it's more related to fear and the fear is usually kind of when you look, when you look at it in a first superficial perspective, then you see whatever external circumstances driving this, based on my experience or what I've seen is usually the burn out does not come, it's not often, it does not often come from external root causes. It's more you struggle yourself, whether this is the right position, develop into, you see yourself developing into something which you think it's potentially not even good for you, you cannot really, you're not living your why, you develop yourself more far away from yourself if you understand what I mean. Kind of you are you're disconnected, you get more and more disconnected from yourself, what you truly want, what truly drives you. If you, you can work 100 hours a week full of full of energy for years without taking any vacation, if this, if you, if you work on something, the more you do it, the more energy you get, kind of if it's really your purpose, if it's your passion. This is to prevent burn out, usually vacation doesn't help, right? It's more that you say, I stop doing things that is fighting against my own self and and reflect what you set a self reflection, reflect what I truly want. I mean, every one of us want to be one level up, want to be become a better version of themselves, want to grow, right? But if you don't have clarity about what the hell means up for me in all these four areas of life, not only business, but also what does it mean for my family, my marriage, my kids, whatever, then my close friends, then what does it mean for me personally, my, my health, my financial independence, my, you know, for me? And last but not least, what does it mean for the community, my role in the community and all these four life areas, professional social between family, loved ones, myself and community, all these four have to be in balance. And if all four are on the balance and implement your why a super robust nothing can kick you down. There is nothing like it's impossible to get kind of a burn out impossible. How does it, you could, you could work whatever 20 hours a day, you, it's impossible to get a, I think it's even if you're down burn for what you do, you burn out. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone you don't sell all what you're doing. Right. Right. So if you, you say, well, if I strive for one level up and have clarity about what the hell up means, right, you also get to into something, call it becoming versus being. I think most underbenerced, they will always always want to become something. Only if I have whatever this exit in my company or this revenue million level or this or only if I have whatever, only if my so child, then I'm a good father. So I always kind of looking for something that's very hard for them just to be just to say, well, I'm currently here in the podcast to get what they look at this exactly what I should do it. So just being since I have clarity about not only when I want to go, but also how to get there. Kind of you come, you get from becoming to being just to be, right, which is also a type of, you know, clarity of vision, clarity of how to get there, clarity of between short term long term goals. And then you're also, what I also see at underbenerced is that I mean, we are always busy, really, really, really busy busy busy busy busy, 60 are kind of really we work hard. But then end of the day or a bit end of the week, we question ourselves, well, I was working so hard, but what what I have already reached, I mean, what is really the result, right? And there is a big discrepancy between felt effort spend versus felt achievements reached. So and the and what you want to get out of is that you or if you look at your own calendar, kind of the meetings you have scheduled or the time you spend, you see that the majority of the time or too much time goes into activities that you consider as urgent. And if oh, this needs to be done or whatever today, I have this call with Frank or you know, kind of you is all urgent, right? But usually everything that's urgent is not important. And everything that's important is not urgent, right? So urgent is whatever next week, I have this board meeting or this customer page or whatever, this financing round that's urgent, but important is potentially whatever taken care about my own health for getting an alignment with my father as long as my father is still living or whatever spend a spend a quality time with my kids. I mean, this is really important and nothing that's important is urgent. I mean, there are some exceptions, but let's say, not you can say, not if I first said, right? And you can only distinguish this thing which between what is important versus what is urgent when you have clarity about, I don't want to go. I mean, what's what is my clarity of vision, right? Kind of on how to get there and what does it mean? And then you say, well, okay, if this is really important, then let's focus on this. It's not about making a plan, right? It's making a have clarity about what you want. And if you have clarity about your want, you can win authors around you to say, I want to want to be a part of it. And this is leadership without without having clarity about what I have your own, what what you want yourself, how can you lead authors to work that? That's makes sense? Yeah, clarity is very important, right? And how to get this clarity is first find out what you want. What is what is your why? What's drive you? What is your what are your core values? Easy to find a couple of exercises uses live pilot. Google my name, Google live pilot. There is a free tool you can you can trust you. What are what are my core values? So what is my statue with my bylaws in life? What is my relationship filter to authors? This is all core values. Second, what is what are my priorities in life? Like what I wear my marriage, my kids, my health, my financial independence? What is really important to me? And third, what drives me? What gives me energy? What is my purpose in life? What is the more I do my purpose in life? My personal purpose in life is having a positive impact on myself and on everyone around you. So if you and I speak afterwards, you say, you know what Frank, I'm a little bit lifted up. One centimeters only, I'm happy, right? Kind of having a positive impact on myself, taking care about myself, my health and so on, my relationships and having a positive impact on the people around me. Kind of could be the taxi driver, could be the lady selling the flowers, could be whoever, right? The lady at the reception of an ashek in into a hotel or whatever. We want to run me. So this is my purpose and the more I do this, the more happy I am and I can do this 20 hours a day, right? So if you have found your way, Then you can say, how can I connect what my business is doing that it fits to my why? If you build up a business that is in conflict with your own why, this business will never ever be successful, right? Since you will, you always will make compromises. But if you build a business that is the best implementation of your own why as an entrepreneur, and then you can even be excited about it, you win people around you who wanna implement this with you together. As you said, we don't build up companies, we build up teams, right? And the team's make it successful, not we as entrepreneurs, right? And then you kind of, and this is just a couple, I mean, it's not really rocket science. You just have to spend a little bit energy around it, do kind of use live pilot or author tools to find out your why. And then once you have clarity about it, you can say, all right, okay, this is already everything perfect, or do I need to make more of a trust man within a period of time? And then when everything is fully aligned, you are more likely to be successful than if you don't have clarity. - True, how can leaders redefine success in a way that supports work ambition and well-being? - Yeah, I think it's only possible if you do both. If you are successful in your business or in your ambitions with your company, and if you're successful in all other areas of your life, that means kind of with your loved ones, right? Kind of your family or friends or whatever relationships you have with your own health, with your own well-being or financial independence or whatever is on your list. And you also have, I think, you can only be successful if you succeed in your community. Kind of everything, everyone who is not belonging to your loved ones, kind of your larger circle of people around you which could be your neighborhood, could be your church, your whatever people that are a little bit more far away from you. And we have to balance as entrepreneurs in order to be successful. We have to balance all these different areas in order to be successful. If you only focus on, let's say, on business, we will the likelihood, and then in between when we lose our health or lose our relationships or lose our families, we will not consider this as success. Independent how whatever valuable the company is, we will see this as a failure in life. And also I believe that if we balance all the four areas from a 60-degree around ourselves as entrepreneurs, we get inspirations, the different energy from all these areas and also bring these positive energies in all these areas. Yeah. What role does honesty with oneself play in building things, cultures, and long-term impact? I think the more your honest or self-reflected, the more people trust also you. First, I have a super-or-often question for myself and say, well, this is really something I'm currently doing that should I really do this now or not and or is this even wrong? And I question this with others and I say, well, the world is not black and white. When I do this, this would even violent, this and this co-values of myself or of our companies and so on. And having this self-reflection, having this honesty, also, to more, I communicate this in a vulnerable way. It doesn't say, well, I don't know, right? Kind of I need your input on this. Kind of the, the more other people trust me and trust us as entrepreneurs, right? Kind of the more vulnerable, the more open, the more self-reflective we are. I think the worst we can do is, you know, I have this, it's to have this attitude with well. I know it all. I can do it as all and so on. No one will ever trust us. No one will follow us. And if we see our, if we, if we throw ourselves vulnerable, right, and also self-reflected with all the failures, with all these uncertainties we have or that we say, well, you know, I'm not sure what to do next. Kind of this is, we are as leaders. We have to, you know, people, people should be able, emotionally to touch us, you know, what I mean, kind of to, to feel us, right? Kind of to more, we believe we have to be strong and solid and self-confident and so on. I think the worst gets, right? I mean, this is, it's fake anyway. And everyone knows, I mean, you cannot be, you cannot be kind of self-confident 24/7, every impossible, right? So many challenges every single day in every business, right? And in every marriage, every relationship it gets and with and even among friends and so on. There is, there's always much going on. And the more we show ourselves, vulnerable and self-reflective, the better it goes. Yeah. For someone listening who feels successful on paper, but unsettled inside. What's one small, but meaningful stuff they can take today? Yeah. And I think clarity about what a health success means. And we have this, by the way, many of my mentees are so-called post-exit founders. So it means they're built up a couple of businesses and could sell them for incredible, high amount of money. So there are rich beyond, beyond measure. Kind of, it, they're richer than, then they can ever spend the money on. But anyway, they don't see themselves as successful entrepreneurs. So they say, oh, I was only lucky. I was at the right time, at the right place, or I could do this. And so on. But they don't necessarily see them as a super successful. And the same is, is an old scale. So kind of success does not necessary or the feeling of being successful does not come by kind of standard measurements. Like, oh, once I have this amount of money on a bank account, I will definitely feel successful. Or once my LinkedIn profile shows this on this, or so, this is not, I think it's more when you success means that you make less and less compromises to what you want. So if you have clarity about what the health is kind of, it always comes back to the same things we already said. Once you have clarity about what you want, kind of, this is so important for me, for example, is my marriage. Super important. My kids super important. My health super important. I don't want to make that too many compromises around them. Financial independence, freedom super important to me. And if I have clarity about all these things, and then I see myself living a life that has less and less compromises to it, I feel satisfied. I feel happy. I feel successful. So the best way to feel successful is to find out what is the life I want to live. What is really truly important to me? What is my why? And then see whether you live it or not. And then when you, well, I live it more and more, and you see yourself, oh, I go into the right direction. Yeah. From this has been such a grounding and thoughtful conversation. Thank you for bringing both your decade of experience and your deep humanity into this space. Your perspective reminds us that leadership isn't just about what we build in the world, but how we build ourselves along the way. Thank you so much, Frank. You're really good questions. I thank you very much. You're welcome. We can listen out, learn more about the work you do and also connect with you. Well, connect with me. There's Frank minus gesner.com or live minus pilot.org. As I said, there is even an app with live pilot. You can just sign up for free and start working with it. Invest a little bit into yourself as an entrepreneur. This is something I potentially have done to late in my career, do a little bit earlier than I've done. And then you will see the benefits are incredible for you. Let's keep going. And I love entrepreneurship. Just keep going. Yeah. Thank you so much once again, Frank. These are really amazing. All right. Big hugs and hope to see you soon in person. Yeah. And so, Alice and us, thank you for spending this time with us on Earth's Planned Realities. If today's episode resonated, take a moment to reflect on where you are living on autopilot and where you might need more clarity and intention. On the next time, keep listening inward, lead with awareness. And remember, growth isn't just our word. It's deeply personal too.