Beyond the Counter: Unexpected Changes: Hope, Strategy and Resiliency

Welcome back to Beyond the Counter, the podcast that supports IPGs navigating their licensing process in Canada. I'm your host, Curolose Salute, Program Manager of Training for the IPG Mentorship Integration Project with the Canadian Pharmacist Association. Today's conversation is about change, unexpected change, and how to respond when the path of licensure shifts. Joining me is returning guest, Atai Okokon, who brings a powerful perspective from her own experience navigating a major policy change late in her licensing journey. Atai, welcome back. Thank you, Curolose. It's great to be here again. Thank you for having me. Happy to have you. So Atai, I want to dig in right away. I want to start by clarifying your experience. You did not go through a PEBC blueprint change as some of the IPGs are currently facing, but rather a policy change with the Alberta College of Pharmacy. Can you walk us through what happens? Yes, I can. And I think that it's important to make that distinction because the distinctions are different, but the emotional turmoil, I would say, is very similar. So what had happened was I was going through my license in process and in March of 2021, after I had passed MCQ and I was within the right of SK and May, Alberta College of Pharmacy came up with a new rule. The new rule was that all internationally-educated pharmacy graduate had to do a one-year bridging program at the University of Alberta. And the biggest catch was this. The program was not going to start until September of 2021. And before that time, once you finished your MCQ, you could start your internship. Well, so it's into your OSCE, we hadn't done your OSCE already. So here I was, I had finished MCQ. I was actively looking for an internship position. And then they said, it came out March 31. And it was effective April 1st. So if you hadn't started your internship yet, you would have to wait until September of 2021 due the bridging program. Then do your internship before you get licensed. Wow. So that quite, you know, the impact on you. So how did that impact your trajectory overall then? So at the point when that thinking moved, it just felt like, you know, the last time we spoke, I talked about putting the eyes on the prize. And you were saying that is better than saying the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. Now the input of this, it felt like, yes. But I also assumed the price, but it did feel like the goalpost had shifted. Like you've already entered into a competition. You've seen the price, right? And then suddenly the rules have changed. The goalpost has moved. And it did feel like, you know, you're in a tunnel. And the lights, you have seen the light, you're almost touching it. And then you are thrust into darkness again. So that, that, that was how it felt at the initial time. And the impact of that being me spending an almost extra 18 months to get licensed when I was just, just almost there. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it did, it did make you feel like you fell back. And you know, right when you're like progressing forward, you're almost there. You see the light, you're reaching it. It's like, no, I think a nightmare. Those nightmares you see in movies are all that kind of. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, you keep running to the light, but you're not getting. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm assuming your immediate reaction with this was just like. Yes. That was my immediate reaction. Like, what is this? Like. It was, it felt like a gut punch. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah. Where am I going to start from again? Like, I was almost there, like in my calculations. And I liked to plan as we talked about the last time. Like, I had all my docs in rule, right? I'm like, I do internship. And then whilst I'm doing my internship, I will do my oski, results command in July, waski scenario. I would be licensed by October of 2021. And then this happened. So from what I'm hearing here is like, you're describing a feeling and a sense of shock and discouragement in that moment. What did that period actually look like for you then emotionally and mentally? Ooh. I felt grief. That's okay. That's the best thing. I felt grief as fine. The spare is a different aspect. Yes. I didn't. So despair means you feel like there's nothing I can do about it. Right? And you feel despair after you felt grief. Grief is like, I've lost something. No. So I did feel it was emotionally draining initially. Like the first few days. It was very initially. It was very emotionally draining the first few days. Like I was devastated. I was shocked. Like I went through the whole emotions. I cried. No. Okay. Yeah. But this is very real. This is very real. Yes. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's hard. It really, it's hard. Like, this was me. Like I knew I was going to get like, say I had, I had everything in place. I had waited to move to Canada until I passed my MCQ, you know, just so that. But it just, it just felt like it was just unraveling in front of me. All my plans just seemed to. Yeah. Like you know how they said the best laid plans of Hong Kong to ruin. That described my emotional state at that time. At the initial time. At the initial time. Yeah. And we'll talk more about like the development of what you did with all of that literal. But I, I want to go talk a little bit more about our IPGs and, and, and, particularly because a lot of international educated pharmacists feel overwhelmed when changes happen. So from your perspective, why do these moments hit so hard? Why aren't you just able to say, Hey, I'm resilient. I've come this far. There's no big deal, but it's a hit's hard, right? So why is that? Now change will hit anybody hard, okay? However, for IPGs, international pharmaceuticals, we are first, a lot of us are first immigrants. Before we are IPGs. What that means is that we have moved packed up our bags and moved countries with changed culture, new culture, something to learn a new language. You've left the familiar into the own familiar, right? And you are trying to start from zero. Like you've left your career, you've left your home, you've left your family, you've left the family, you've left your language, everything, and you're coming into a new country. And so, and then you know, I've not moved into the new country, you know, got the courage to start the licensing process because that takes courage to start the licensing process. It takes a lot of courage. Now, you've had the courage, you started the licensing process and then a change happens that a could mean that you stay, you walk longer in a job that you probably may not like or a very low-end job. You still have to take care of your family. You still have to do a lot of all those things as an immigrant, you know, in a new country. And sometimes it could also mean that Vista Status has been affected, you know, if before instant you didn't come here as a common resident, every change in policy hits really hard because it means lower income, it means harder work, it means a lot of things. And so, like I said, the journey begins long before you become an international pharmacy graduate, as far as PBC is concerned. It begins when you decided to move to a new country. And so, this just compounds an already difficult situation for a lot of IPGs. Yeah, so in other words, you know, the identity crisis happens, be when you move into a new country. So, that's why it kind of hits harder as well because one thing I'm hearing within IPGs and I've heard in other conversations is for instance, you know, they forget that they were pharmacists back home when they come here. So, So you come here and thinking you're starting from zero meaning even your education starts from zero but it's it's not right. So you're not starting your education from zero. You're still a pharmacist. You're just doing really extensive complicated paperwork. Yes. Together. But like you're still a pharmacist all in all. So and I think there's that that loss of identity. And what policy changes when they over-prepared and so on because they want to do well and to avoid from having to spend extra money as well. You're very good. Right. In case you fail an exam or so on like it all costs money in certain provinces if you have to do it again or so on kind of thing. And also all these have a huge impact. Right. They do. And also at that point to you also there's a question that keeps going to your mind is did I make the right decision? Yeah. Oh yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Did I make the right decision? What am I even doing? Should I just pack up my bags and go back home? You know. Yeah. Like I mean I'm not I'm not an IPG but in my previous career prior to working here. A lot of new I worked with a lot of newcomers refugees to sign them seekers and a lot of them came here with the expectation that they're going to have a better life without the complexities that come with it. Only to find out that that's not the case. Right. And then they go through the identity crisis but also looks that I make the right decision of moving here. I should have stayed back home. My life doesn't feel like it's getting any better or so on. So it's something that regardless if someone's coming here to become a licensed pharmacist or yeah or not. They're still immigrating into a new country. Has that impact and you know you want to you want a better life but you're not able to attain exactly the better life. I guess. If that makes sense what I'm saying. Exactly. You know I'm like okay what am I doing? My life seems a little bit better back home than in my present moment. Yeah. And so imagine you've gone through all of that. You've done the exams and then you feel like okay okay I'm doing this. I'm getting there. And then you're almost touching the fruit. You're almost touching the price and then they take it up again. They change the fruit. That's why it's the impact is really tough on IPG. Of course. So we've talked a little bit here on the heavy stuff. We covered it from the beginning because now we want to talk about you know how to turn this into a positive experience. So when you look back now. Yeah. How did you reframe that experience from something discouraging and to some that you could move forward from? Okay. So for me and I'm going to be really honest. Of course. That's why we have you. That's why. My my faith is a very big part of how I process things and how I leave my life and how things impact me. Okay. Okay. Now, having said that and I did mention that my first reaction was grief. I felt devastated. But then even in the midst of all of that grief and devastation, there's something. I'm not sure if you heard of the serenity prayer. It says, good, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. Not change. I'm accepted. I'm encouraged to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Honestly, that's driving for my own life. That's how I look at. That's my perspective to things. And so even though I was crying and feeling bad at the background, my head was thinking, okay, so what are the things that are in my hands that I can change? What is what can I do about this situation? I mean, so it's okay to sit down and cry. Well, while you're crying, there's a proverb, there's an angelian proverb that says, even when you're crying, you can be crying. And then your eyes should still be open to find your way to the markets. So even in the midst of it. I like that a lot actually. I mean, you're not going to close your eyes on walk. You still find your way. Right? So that's the outlook. So that's how I was able to reframe it. So I could not do anything about the ACP changes. They have done what they had to do. They have done their changes. It was their decision. There was nothing I could do about that. But there was no point crying over that spill to me. But that milk had been spilled. So what was in my power to do was, okay. So what can I do? I still have oski to write in me. I should still study for my oski and pass my oski. Okay. So what are the provisions of doing stuff? So Ontario, if you pass all your exams in one attempt, then you can skip the bridging program and do peace. So all of this research was done during that time. When I was crying and doing the research. Because that was what's in my hands to do. And so, and then in your, I don't know if that still happens now. But when you first apply to the document evaluation, you have to go through the NAPRA gateway, pharmacy gateway. Yeah. And if I'm a second. Okay. So in the pharmacy gateway, you have to choose your province. And so I had already chosen Alberta as my province. So I had to go there and change it to Ontario. Okay. Because that change needed to happen to show that I was going to get licensed first in Ontario. Yeah. So I had to change my province to Ontario pharmacy gateway. So all of this information, a lot of these things were done during that period when I was still feeling devastated, but I had to do what I had to do. And so yes, I did feel grief. Yes, I cried. Yes, it was a very emotional time for me. But realistically, I had to think about what was, what I could change. So I had to wish them to know the difference. Yes. And I think it's beautiful because you want to know a lot of IPGs coming through. We, speaking as an immigrant myself, we come from a very strong faith background, right? Like we, and so on. So a lot of IPGs coming through, hold on to their faith for a lot of spiritual advice or wisdom and so on. And I think it's a beautiful thing to still have. I know though we live in a circular, circular world, which just is not something necessarily that is talked to often, but it's something to admire, regardless of who it is that's coming through, whether there does not have to be about religion necessarily, but it could be just having faith that I can do it. And so on finding the inspiration through self-help books or, or quote, something that will inspire you to go into a moment of just like stepping back and realizing, you know, I could do it. I could do it. It's not the end. Let me just re strategize here. Exactly. And so on. And I liked the fact that you said, you know, things that are, you know, within your hands, so within your control. And so this has been done something through your faith for you. So for someone listening who feels like this is the final straw, how would you challenge that way of thinking? Let's not leaving faith out of it. But like, how would you challenge that way of thinking? What would you say? This is what I would say, particularly for IPG's because we're talking to IPG's right now. You've had many final straws. No. You had a, it was probably a final straw that made you leave your country. It was a final straw that made you decide, okay, I wouldn't move from here. I want to come here. It was a final straw that made you leave your career back home and come here. Like, we've had many final straws and life is filled with final straws. Okay. But it also makes me remember there's a book, my mom, my mom had on her shelf. And that title of that book has stuck with me all of this years. It says, "Tough times don't last, but tough people do." So in life, we'll have many tough times. We'll have many final straws. But the, the underlying factor is that tough people, you've already shown resilience, lots of that, moving here. So what is a change that you cannot find the written advocates? And then think about it. If you say this is your final straw and you want to give up, what is your other option? What other options do you have? Do you have all of those options aligned? And how do you know that the policies will not change around those new options that you have? So I guess what I'm trying to say that in life, there are many final straws moments. Yeah. And many times that you would say, "You know what? This is it. I'm dying." Yeah. And there are many times that you fall along the line. But it's not how many times you fall, but how many times you rise up when you fall. And like I said, moving from one country to another country, having immigration challenges, visa issues, and all of that is a huge adult across already. And you're already here, right? So this is one of many changes that you're going to see. - No, I'm just trying to think. It's like changing that perspective of making something so grand in your head that this is the final straw. What it actually is not, it's just that way of thinking is based very often on emotion, deep emotions that you've lost, could you feel like you've lost control of the situation when you had it or you thought, I had it under control on child, I was like, oh, that's going my way, right? So it's like, okay, well, you know what changes happen. And I think that this is also in some ways a preparation for the real world, right? So, pharmacy policies change constantly. It's not a govern, it's not because you, and they're becoming a pharmacy manager or a pharmacy owner that means you have your own rules, right? Like, there's federal laws, provincial laws that are applicable and they change and policies and so on. So it's just kind of like a real life application scenario. It's like, okay, this is their reality of pharmacy practice overall. Like those changes happen kind of things. So, you know, I want to shift now, talking about the P E B C blueprints changes. You and I spoke about this off camera and I really liked what you, what we had spoken about. So since many candidates are currently navigating those blueprint changes, there's been a lot of anxiety around them but also some improvements from your endless understanding. What are some of the positive changes in the new blueprint? I could talk for one hour and a half and you knew that. And that's fine, but let's try to make it in 15 minutes, maybe 10 minutes. Okay, so I looked at the current blueprint and I looked at it and I was like, oh wow, this is a huge improvement from the previous one. I mean, the previous one was nine pages. It was nine pages. It was nine pages and this is just one page, okay? And the biggest improvement and I cannot stress this enough is the fact that in this new blueprint, you have MCQ and Oscar weights clearly defined and that did not happen in the previous blueprint. I would give an example. Let's talk about communication, for instance. And the previous blueprint, it was 14%. So you would see 14% and think, okay, if I'm gonna study for MCQ, 14% of 200 questions is roughly 28 questions. So that means that 28 questions will talk about communication. However, I did some research on all of that when I was preparing for my own exam. And I had to do a lot of extensive work to find out what the breakdown was between and secure and osuke. And what I found out at the time was that communication was only 2% of MCQ and 26% of osuke. So 26 plus, 26 plus 2 is 28 divided by 3 is 14. So they only put 14 in the blueprint. Rather than breaking it down to 2 and 26. So if you spent a lot of time studying communication in quote for MCQ, you only studied for four questions. Instead of 28 questions. - Yeah. Right now, it's clearly defined in the new blueprint. Communication is 16%. But that 16% we know that 28% is osuke and 4% is MCQ. Very clearly defined. - And was this fantastic? - Yeah, another example is product distribution where calculations come in. And product distribution in the old one, it was just 13% as a blanket number, 13%. However, for MCQ, it was 19%, which is about 38 questions. And for osuke, it was just 7% of what the osuke was tested. Now, in the new blueprint, product distribution is 14%. And it's clearly showing us that 20% of that is MCQ and 8% of that is osuke. So it gives you a clear cut way of knowing what to study for each exam and knowing where to put your focus in. And then the last example I will give you with patient care, that's the biggest one. So patient care in the old blueprint was 32%. And the new blueprint is 45%. That's the combined weights. - Yeah. When you break it down, in the old one, it was 52%, which is 104 questions in your MCQ, that's like half. And then it was 32% in the osuke. Okay, now that I had to do that with a lot of digging, a lot of research to find those percentages. - Dependent. - But here is giving to us, and it's giving to us as 50% or MCQ and 40% in the osuke. So it just helps you know, and it's very clearly demarcated, the weights going to MCQ and the weights going to osuke. And I think I most commend the PVC for that, to be honest. And yes, one of that thing that people are so scared of again with the blueprint is that, oh, there's lots of changes that have happened. The major change, honestly, is this breakdown? That's the major change, and it's a positive one. - Yeah. - And then yeah, a few topics we had added here and there, but when you compare both of them, you still have the same things, the same things, very similar things, and then let me change my language. And what does this say now, to say similar? So what you're reading is still what you should read. - Yeah, so which is really good. I mean, it gives them more direction and strategy of how to focus their time and so on. And I think this is very important because, you know, we hear about some of the frustrations I heard first hand from IPGs when writing the exams, you go in and then, I go, I ended up focusing on this more than I needed to. And so on kind of thing, but let's say, you know, you have someone, they're writing their exams this May, their osuke or MCQ. And that change, I think if I recall, was around beginning of March as one or mid March, when they said, this is the new blueprint effective May 1st, 2026 and people are registered to read their exam. - Yeah. - What would be your advice, you know, for, of someone how to prepare for that sudden change in a short period of time? - That's a great question. What I would say is, the first step, and I mean, the exam is just a few weeks away, but I think the first step is, get the new blueprint and look at it for yourself. Don't base it off of what other people are saying or the fears surrounding it. Get the blueprint yourself and look at it. And look at the old one and see, oh, is it actually really different, you know? Look at it, like take your time and look at it. Don't just base it off what other people are saying or what the fears that are, you know, being fed and the anxieties, you know, that is being projected. I think the first thing is to take a look at the old blueprint, take a look at the new blueprint. And you would actually see that what you're studying is good enough. What you're studying is good and effective. It will help you target your study as far as I'm concerned, because now you know if there are 200 questions in the MCQ, I know how many questions would focus on patient care. I know how many questions would focus on product distribution. I know how many questions would focus on communication. And that kind of helps you know how to target your study. And patient care is still the biggest percentage. And so, and that's a multiple focus on anyway. And you're already doing what you need to do. You're already doing a good job. It's, I feel like the change is still, yes, there is a change. And we, the immediate reaction with any change is panic. And if you tears like me, but fundamentally take the papers yourself and look at it. Through your tears, look at it. And you will see that really you're still on track. New song track, which is really important because you know, I think that it goes back to that stepping back, evaluating and taking a look and just kind of like, okay, I'm overreacting. So it's like calm the situation down. So let's say the candidate now, they're new. They're about to study for their MCQ and ASCII. How should they then start thinking of prioritizing the study time? Great question. So I remember we talked about this briefly at the first podcasts. Yeah. And for me, I've always been a blueprint person. And it's interesting that people are complaining about this when many people don't even look at the blueprint in the first place. Yeah. But I'm a blueprint person. And what I would advise anyone about writing the exam is take a moment to look at the blueprint. It's very important to look at the blueprint. And you can see how what the percentages are, particularly for MCQ. So you know you have 200 questions. And you know that the 100 questions, for instance, are going to come out from patient care. And you know that product distribution is going to take another 20%. That's like 40 questions. So that's like 70% of the exam already from just those two topics. Now, I'm not saying that you would focus all of your attention on those two. Some of the other ones are like low-hanging fruits, meaning things that you can learn quickly. You can learn quickly and then know them well enough to pass those sections. And then patient care is really bold. It has a lot of topics underneath it. So whilst you're focusing on doing your patient care and learning all of those things, also remember to look at those encoded low-hanging fruits that you can study. So I find that a lot of people focus solely on patient care. This was for solely on therapeutics. Yes, it's half of the exam. But it's only half of the exam. There's another whole half that you can know about when you look at the blueprint and have a guide as to how you should study and how you should plan your time around studying. And I think so it's organization, right? Yes. Really being organized and understanding and prioritizing things in a way. Just on the percentages that they see without ignoring something that's still important to know. Exactly. Even though it's a small percentage, but they still need to put some effort into it, but not as much as the other aspects for presents a big chunk. So I remember that our first podcast you did recommend that the ones with the big chunk try to answer these first when you did the MCQ, then go to the smaller ones after because they were presented a bigger person tile of your MCQ. Exactly. You still hold on to that approach? I do. I do. Good. I do. I still do. And so I do have advice for when you're writing the exam and when you're preparing for the exam. So when you're preparing for the exam, I would say the big guys, the patient care and all of that has half of your questions. However, those smaller ones like communication and the ones that give you like 5% here, 10% here, you can do them in between when you're studying for patient care. And know those ones very well because that's like it goes free max, you know, in quotes and all free but like, you know what I mean? And then during the exam, what I always suggest is this, if your exam is say 200 minutes and you have 200 questions, that means do not spend more than one minute per question. So you would go through the go through the questions. If you're saying they are spending more than one minutes, move to the next question. And spend more than one minute per question because that's what you have. And then there's some questions that you can answer in 10 seconds and some questions that you can answer in two minutes. So by the time you go through the entire exam and you've done all the 10 seconds answers, then you can now go back and do your two minutes questions. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that's that's how I would phrase that. I like that. And I think this is a perspective that not many IPGs necessarily think they might be doing and I'm just talking here and assuming. I'm not going to say like I've had that conversation but it's a very important strategy to think of how much time you spend per question and so on. One of the things that we hear sometimes is, you know, the anxiety as soon as you start running the exam like anxiety of time, anxiety of this and so on. It's like, okay, I have that much time to do that many questions and all of a sudden it becomes chaos. What would you say to that person when they are about to write the exam and they're sitting there and the clock starts and they go through that perspective, what would you tell them to on them down be like, refocus that strategy that you just mentioned. Yeah. So, I mean, everybody I have an exam anxiety to everybody has an exam anxiety. But I think one to one should think about this is you are already here. You studied so long for this exam. So this anxiety, it's good but let the anxiety be like your adrenaline to help you focus and do the exam properly and then look at the time. There's always a time on the screen. And so what I also think is what I also suggest to is, I mean, when you go into the exam or you're allowed to have a pen and a paper. So when I go to the exam or the first thing I write on my paper is I need to look at the time. I need to focus. And that's a reminder for myself. And so, like I said, for every exam, for every question, depending, so I calculate the number of minutes based on the number of questions. Okay. Like I said before. So if it's 200 questions and I have 200 minutes, it's one minute per question. So despite the anxiety, you know, I still look, I still make sure that I look at that time. And so once I say that a question is going past that one minute time, I just move to the next one. A lot of people don't think about it that way and you were right. I know you said you haven't talked about it, but I do know from experience because when I tell people this thing, like, oh, I never thought about it before because love would don't think about it. But there are really questions that are like rabbit holes. And I mean, if you can answer 10 questions and feel that one question, you've got a nine out of 10. So, so if a question is giving you so much of a headache, I don't know how it is now, but when I wrote my exam, it could flag a question. So I didn't, if I see a question needed so much time, I would just flag it and move to the next. So that way, I believe that is so possibility. Yeah. So you flag the question and you move to the next. So that way, you actually can go through all 200 questions within the time and then have time to go back to the questions that you flagged. Yeah. Because there are sometimes where they have a question to be in the beginning and then the easier questions will be at the end. Now I don't know if that is still the case with the no idea. I don't know because they have a new method called the linear on the flight testing. So I'm not sure if you need to answer every question, question for you move to the next one or if you can jump questions. I'm not sure about that. You could jump questions. Yeah. So if you can jump questions and you can flag and then go back. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got a highlight on this one. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, your experience really highlights that change is constant in discernment. It is through licensing and from our first podcast that we ever recorded with you, we saw that change is constant overall. Whether it's family at home, financial or the exam and now we're learning about policy change in your situation. What does resiliency then look like in this context? I would say that resilience means you know that things will always go as planned but you're going to go anyway. You're going to cry. But you're going to find your way to the markets, to the tears. Yeah. You know. So, resilience doesn't mean that there will be an absence of obstacles. It just means that you find a way to some mount every obstacle. Yeah. So to me, that's what resilience look like. And in life generally, whether you're an IPG or not, life comes with its own obstacles. And so we always have to find a way to some mount the obstacles one way or the other. And that's what resilience means in 2000 from sharing. I think in some ways we have the choice to either improve ourselves through the changes that occur and become better. for ourselves or in this case for the patients and for your career growth or you could choose it to let her drag you down. Exactly. Kind of thing. But again, we're humans, right? We are humans. We are humans. You know, and it just I think having that realization in itself is a form of resilience. It's like, okay, I allowed myself to wallow, allowed myself to grief and feel that way. It's time to pick up and it's okay. This is part of real life. You know, it's not the first change that I've been through. It's not the first time I've experienced something so intent. You know, you talked earlier about moving completely from a country. This is massive. Yes. And so on in the culture shock and then then then then the piles on anything, but it's no reason to feel like it's the last strong so on. So it's very important. So how do you build the ability then because this is this is a skill. It is the ability to adapt when things don't go according to plan. People don't necessarily deal. I will talk for myself. I'm the type of person you put me in any certain scenario and change. I will adapt like this. Yes. Yes. Some people it's so difficult because they're just does not feel safe anymore or secure anymore. And things are not out of control. So how does one build the ability to adapt and let's not just talk about the exam. Let's talk about like you with the changes at work for instance like when COVID hit. Kind of thing like those are things like that impacted. It did. Practice and so on. Like how it did. To answer your question, I think that. We build we build the ability to adapt. By adapting. Yeah. So every time every time that we've adapted in your life and every one of us has what I would like to think about it or not. Even people will think that they don't adapt. You have adapted somehow in your life. You have been building it that muscle without knowing it. I mean you moved like particular for IPG's now you moved from one country to another country. You had to adapt to the change. You had to adapt to kind of that's called whether you know into the snow into the winter and all of that. So. But one thing one thing that I would say is that. It's been able to separate the situation. From the story that you're telling yourself. And I will explain this. So with the ACP for instance my situation was. ACP identified in just a new program. Okay. That was a situation. What I was telling myself was oh my goodness my journey is is ruined. I can't do this anymore. Like no, I didn't say I can't do this anymore. But like there is this delay has happened, you know. But the situation was true. The story was mine to change. I like that. So changes will happen. The change is true. But how you react to it. Your reaction to it. You can change the story by yourself. You can choose how you cannot change what happened to you. But you can change how you react to it. Yeah. And we do it every day in our life without even knowing it. It's only significant in quote when something big like this happened for every single day. We adapt. Every single day the boss is late. You walk or you take over. That's a doctorate. Yeah. So we always find a way one way or the other. And speaking of COVID very interestingly. I don't think I shared this path with you. I think it was one of the first sets that. In fact, I was a first set that did PBC evaluate an exam online. They remotely propped exam. In fact, my plan had been to my husband had moved to Canada already. I had planned to move in March of 2020 to write my exam in June. And then there was a shot down. That was a big change. Yeah. And then I wasn't sure how I was going to write the exam. PBC they were adaptable and they came up with this remotely propped exam. And so we did a remotely propped exam. And then guess what? Three times my internet failed during that exam. Three times. I had to yes, I was kicked out of the exam three times. And had to sign in again. If you've done a remotely propped exam, then you know how it is. Three good times. I finished the exam and I did feel devastated. I did feel drained. I did feel like. I don't know. Yes, exactly. I'm being set up for failure here. Exactly. Like I don't think I'm going to pass this exam because there was a lot of anxiety. So I've been through everything. There was a lot of anxiety. Three times I was kicked out, but eventually finished. But thankfully I reached out again. I could have sat down and said, okay, I failed this exam. I don't know what I'm going to do. But I reached out to PBC immediately. I was crying, but I reached out to PBC. Yes. I said, this exam I was kicked out three times. It didn't really work for me. I'm not sure what to do. And because it was their first time doing their remotely propped exam. They were able to fix another date for the exam. So I wrote my evaluating exam. Like I think it was two weeks later. So I did the exam twice within two weeks. Oh, wow. Okay. So yes, the information was a little still fresh in your mind. It was still very fresh. Yes. Yes. But you see that, you know, it's how you how you react to the change. So it's okay to put it. Yeah. Are you handled it? Yes. I'll be through this PBC. The whole journey has shown me a lot. But through the tears, you still find your way to the market. Through the tears, you still reach out. You know, what can I do about the situation? I can sit down and cry. It's okay to sit down and cry. It's okay to feel sad about it. It's okay to feel devastated about the change. But it's what you do afterwards. And that's what counts. Yeah. It's true. Now, so that being said, do you think then that the policy change that you experience that ultimately then strengthen your mindset going forward without question. Without question. And you see that I've gone through many policy changes through my PBC journey. And so when I look back at the full journey. Right in the example, we're doing a pandemic system failures, policy changes. And then I was pregnant and had to move provinces, you know, lots of changes. Lots of changes. It just taught me that it taught me that I can handle things that I did not think I could handle before. So it did strengthen my mindset. It made me see that there's always another way. There's always another way where one door closes another door opens. But you need to find that door sometimes. So you don't just stand staring at a door that has been closed. Okay, you don't just stand staring at a door that has been closed. You find another door and another keep knocking and one door will definitely open. So it's always finding a way around it. That that was what I learned through this entire process. So yes, my mindset has been very strengthened. I don't think there's anything I cannot so much. So I don't think so. Honestly. Yeah. No, I'm just like, you know, listening here to all of this and it's sort of applicable to anyone listening to this. It's just IP dues, right? So how to take moments like these to empower you to enlighten you to see that light at the end of the tunnel. I got a little further away. It's actually not that far away as I thought it was like I slowly read there and it does make things better. Now we have reached my favorite part of the podcast. Okay. The rapid fire answers. Okay. Like that. I'm feeling, hey, you got it. So it's I asked your question and you tell me the first thing that comes to your mind short and sweet. Okay, let's do this. Are you ready? Yeah. Yeah. All right. One word to describe your mindset during that policy change. There you go. The first thing you did after hearing the news. I cried. It's very odd. The biggest misconception IPGs have about these changes. Oh, that means that in over. It almost never does. It doesn't mean that in over. It just means adjusting. Yeah. I like that. So MCQ or ASCII, which felt more imagin manageable and why I'll give you a sentence for that. Okay. For me, it was MCQ. And the reason I wrote a value exam two times in two weeks. So by the time the result of it. By the time the valid example result came out, I applied for the MCQ immediately. The MCQ within two months of writing my valid in exam. So I had like it was really fresh in my head. So yes, so every single was my manageable. One study happened that actually made a difference. Look another blueprint. Yes. One thing you would stop doing if you could start over. Comparing my journey to other peoples. Yeah, crying. No, I was the crying. I was the crying. It changed. So what was it that you said? What was the one thing you would stop doing? I'll say comparing my journey with with someone else's. That's a good one. Yeah. Compare your journey. How did you deal with isolation? Of me. I'm never afraid to reach out to people. So I really don't feel like I deleted more than I have great friends and families. That's true. Good. What kept you going on your hardest day? My family. Yeah, we remember we talked about that in the first podcast as well. Coffee or silence when studying. Silence although that's a luxury when you have two kids now but like silence. All right, I'm going to ask you to finish this sentence. You've got this because because you're tough and tough times don't last but tough people do. I love that. Excellent. And that was our rapid fire segment. Yay! A tie. Thank you so much for bringing such an honest and grounded perspective to this conversation. I always love having talked to you. I have you with us to talk to us through all of this. Now before we wrap up, is there one message you want listeners to walk away with? And so that's so what would it be? I would say the life sentence in journey is long. It's not always fair. The goal post can move. We'll move. May move depending on what stage you are in. And but every time that mine moved, I found another path. And so what I would leave with my listeners today is there's almost always another path. There's almost always another door that would open up to you. So if one door closes, don't just stand staring at that door. Look for another door. There will always be another way. And I would also add two things. Talk times don't last, but talk people do. It's not how many times you fall, but how many times you rise up when you fall. And you'll always be obstacles, but you know, life is filled with obstacles, but you can always mount it. If yeah, I can always mount it. I think and for IPG is I'll add also, I'm sorry, I know you said just one thing. Go for it. Go for it. You've come this far. Like you've moved countries. You've changed careers. You are, you know, hustling and you know, doing everything to make ends meet for you and your family. And so I just say stick at it. Keep your eyes on the price. Changes will happen. Things will happen. They will try to move you away, but just keep your eyes on the price and you've got this. I love that. All of this is very important points and you've summarized what we've talked about today. So this is fantastic. I really like it. Now to everyone listening, change is part of the licensing process overall, even in pharmacy practice itself, but it does not define your outcome. You've made it this far. You've already proven your resilience overall. So to that, I say, thank you for tuning in to Beyond the Counter. I am your host, Kierilo Sali. Thank you a tie one more time for being with us here today on this podcast and giving us what we need. Giving IPGs right they need to know that they're not alone in this. Now if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone you might need that might need their reminder as well. The podcast is available on Spotify available through our website as well as Apple podcasts and many other channels. Go look it up and hopefully you'll find it until next time and keep moving forward.