Between Innings - Eunice Nakamura

[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Council Brewer with your co-hosts, Sherry Nell Demarion, and Nicola Hobach, a pair of fully brewed badass lawyers as your co-hosts, where we share our conversations with lawyers and non-loyers of life who've blaze their own badass trails and provide inspiration, practical tips, and laughs along the way. Grab a cup of coffee or tea and enjoy our conversations. And who knows, maybe you will be inspired to embark on your own journey to Bedassery. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Council Brewer. Today we have with us, Eunice Neckamora. She is currently the Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary of Texas Rangers baseball club, and has been a general counsel for several years now, also for one of the great organizations here previously. She was a general counsel at Susan G. Comin. And so we are looking forward to dive in from that transition from that different world into the sports world. Yeah, we're really happy to have you. So I got to meet you-- I don't know how we didn't meet before in all our years here in Dallas, but I finally had the privilege of meeting you in person because you came and spoke on a-- really, I think it was really cool, but unbiased. Sports panel that we did for a big group of lawyers. And that was awesome. That was fun. Thank you so much. Thank you to both of you for having me. Yeah, we're so happy to have you. OK. So as you know, we start off with-- well, I have lots of favorite questions, but this is definitely at the top of my list. But I'm usually one that asks it, and I'm going to let Shereen ask it today. Oh, yeah. So, here on Council Brew, we'd like to ask, what is your favorite brew? It's an almond milk latte. Oh, I love you. OK. No latte. No, that's-- What I'm drinking right now. But I feel-- Oh, iced. Yes. Ice or hot, really, right? Yes. I like both this morning. I'm having ice because I was in meetings all morning and didn't have an opportunity to drink my almond milk latte. So after five hours, I've just dumped some ice in here so I can finish it. Oh, man. Well, that's a good compromise. I feel sad that you had to go five hours waiting for your-- I'll defend-- I would have famed a restroom break and, like, gotten the latte. Yeah. I tried all morning, but I've made it about a half way. So that's where we are today. But almond milk latte is my go-to. That's my favorite, too. I discovered almond milk several years ago. And once I made the switch for coffee, I really enjoy it, actually. Great. That's greatness. So, like, no flavor, no nothing. Just the almond milk and your coffee. The flavor is the coffee. Yeah. OK. I agree. But you have to get the frothing right. The frothing is very important. And I use a hand frother at home. And that's very important. But I am now in the market for a fully automated machine that will do that for me because the froth makes the taste different. It does-- so it's funny because, like, will you call it froth? I call it foam. But I think froth is better. Froth sounds more enticing. The foam I'm always like, can you cut back on the foam? Because then you end up with a cup-- if someone else makes it, you end up with, like, predominantly foam. And waiting for the coffee to meander its way through the foam to finally get to my lips is-- Yeah. That's why you have to use the hand mixer. Yes. I agree. We don't have extra air. Yes. So Todd and I-- my husband and I got as a wedding gift a really phenomenal coffee machine many, many years ago. It survived way longer than it should. And then we went for a period of time without one. But now we've been enjoying a bravo. I'm not saying you have to be bravo. But the one that we got has been so delightful and has really enhanced our marriage. That's all I'm worried. I can understand that. You said you were inspired to get this fully automated machine to do a recent trip in Tokyo. So I would like to know what this machine does. Yeah, and why in Tokyo? So we took a family trip out to Japan for the holidays. And we stayed in what they call the Onsen region, which is the hot springs resort area. And every morning, I looked forward to getting my coffee there from their fully automated machine. And I have a bravo too. But my bravo-- and I don't know if your bravels this way-- requires me to turn the handpiece with the coffee beans, like the grinding-- Oh, no, no. My thought automated. OK. Well, I have the old model, apparently. And so this new one in Japan, you just put your cup, right? And then it makes the best-tasting Americano. And you can add milk or whatever you want to it. But the froth level was out of this world. And so since then, I took a picture. And I have been on the market to find the perfect machine because it tasted so good. And I just haven't been able to recreate that here at home. So I'm on the market for a new machine from my trip. So my bravo-- so it does grind the beans. So I pour the beans in. I grind it. I have a separate-- it has a separate steamer spout. So I steam the milk separate from the espresso. And then combine all the magic together. But I mean, it doesn't take me but a few minutes. Does it also have the auto-tamp? It doesn't have an auto-tamp. I manually tamp, but I find that to be really satisfying. Oh. Sometimes you just need to tamp whatever frustrations you have. Yes. Yes. You can go-- I will take note of that. The fancy one, self-tamps. And it's like-- it's computerized. You're like, what do I want today? I want a latte and it just does everything. I know, but then when it breaks, then it breaks. And then you have to-- I know, but I'm kind of intrigued of what this machine is. And I have not gotten that far to look into the tamping aspect of this machine search. But thank you, because now I will add that. So I look at my options. I know. We invite you today. So we give you a thorough checklist of all the things you should look for as you're contemplating your next level of magic. I started looking. But Santa, aka me, decided there were other things that I wanted this year. That was fair. I think that's fair. Well, you're always welcome to come over. And I will make you a lot in almond milk latte. And you can see, does this meet my expectations? Or no, it's an outer failure. And I need to go elsewhere. I will take you up on that invite. Yes. I'm kind of thinking we might just have to fly to Tokyo and buy a Thayer in him. [LAUGHTER] I was going to say, if you're not in Tokyo, it may not be in the US, because as you know, like my toilet experience in Tokyo, I have never been able to recreate in any other part of the world. That is other than the coffee. The second thing that I miss the most are the Japanese toilets, especially when the weather is cold. So that was what I asked our head of facilities here if we couldn't get Japanese toilets. And he kind of moved off. It's the moto, right? moto? moto. Toto. Toto. Toto. Toto. I believe that's right. Toto toilets. So for anyone who's never experienced the Toto toilet, I feel sorry for you that you haven't had that moment in your life to understand what we're talking about, but you should put it on your bucket list, because it warms your bum as you have alluded to, you know? Yes. It talks to you. It hums. It sings. It just makes her to see music. Yes. It does all the things. And not just in the hotel rooms, like in the public restrooms, they are all over that way. Even in the rest stops, the highway rest stops, they are all those toilets. Yes. And they self-clean. Yes. So we have improved that market. Somebody who remodels and looks at these things, but we don't have the music. So I think there is one model that now has the warming, but not the full experience. It's a game changer. It is a game changer. And I'm fun fact. I think Rocky Sasaki, who is a player on the Dodgers, when he came to the Dodgers from Japan that was one of his requests, apparently, from what I've read. So brilliant. If I ever become famous, I will say I need a Toto toilet, that's part of my name. Hackage. In the contract. It's all about the contract. It's kind of like the-- should we choose shoes that-- oh my god, what's her name got from being L Woods? Should we put that in the-- Oh, should we put that in the contract? Should we keep the shoes? Yes. She was like, I put it in the contract. I'm like, oh, good for her. Yeah. Ask for it and you shall receive. That's right. Maybe. It helps if you're famous. You don't have to. You don't get. Yeah. I know. Maybe you just need to ask-- you need to put the fancy coffee machine that self-tamps in your contract. Good advice. You need to call Shreen and I. It should call Shreen and me. When the time comes, I'm all helping you think through your-- Yeah. --whatever negotiation. This has been super helpful. Thank you. Yeah. Then the episode's over. Yeah. (laughs) But not really. So I love that. Okay, so you're a coffee lover like we are, which is really a treat, 'cause we've had some water and coke and diet coke and it's nice when we get back to coffee. Especially when it's one of your favorite brews. I know. You know? So you have done some really cool stuff. I had a really fun time getting to know you when we were preparing for that other panel that we did together. And we talked a lot of sports and all those things. And I think for sure we can't get away from this conversation without talking some sports. But I do think it would be great to start and maybe go back in time a little bit and figure out how you became a lawyer and you're in this incredibly high profile position working for a team that's in the news. And there's just some cool, unique aspects to your job. But take us back if you don't mind to your earlier years and help us understand how you got to where you are now. Sure. Unfortunately, I don't have a super sexy story in terms of how I became a lawyer. I'm just one of those people that ever since I was a little girl, I always wanted to be a lawyer without knowing exactly why. I just did. Specifically, I wanted to be a litigator. I thought being in the courtroom was cool. And so I just did everything in terms of my education to march towards that direction. So, school, I did debate. You know, all of those things went to college, was a polysci major, went straight to law school and then started out litigating right after law school. And I loved it. And I thought I was gonna be a litigator forever. That was the direction that I always dreamt of as a little girl is arguing matters in court. I quickly narrowed down that I wanted to be a civil litigator after doing like a quick stint at the DA's office during law school. And when I got tearied during a trial, I think the ADA at the time looked at me and said, "Uh, that's not for you." Which I understood. And so, you know, I narrowed it down and was having a lot of fun, enjoyed it immensely. And I got a call for an opportunity to go in-house through a recruiter that I knew from the Bar Association. I wasn't looking, but you know, it's always good to talk to people. And so, when the opportunity came up, when the opportunity came up, I took that opportunity to meet with the GC at the time. It just organically naturally worked out that I went in-house and it happened to be with a hospitality company and got the opportunity there for my first in-house exposure. And I just fell in love with it in terms of, you know, being a business partner, touching all the business issues on top of all the legal issues. And so, that's how I ended up going in-house and transitioning from being a litigator to an in-house attorney. - Oh, she spoke my language. - I know. - The words to business, love it. - Yep. - And I'm not the only one who cried in court. It's okay. (laughing) - Fact. - She did it before she was, she was interning. (laughing) - Oh, was this when you were counsel? - I was, it was my client on this stand. She didn't hold me the whole story. So, she's like telling the story and like it was, it was a lot, it was bankruptcy court. - It was in bankruptcy court. But like her child had been in very not great situation. So, like she kind of alluded to it, but didn't like say what it was. And then like she starts talking about it. To the point that like it was, it was very dramatic in Judge Howzer. Like literally reaches over with a box of tissues. At which point I was like those are not for me. (laughing) - But I don't get one and right past his side of me. - I was hit with, I approached and gave it to my client. But I was like, oh, I gotta get it together. Like, 'cause I have to ask another question. - Yeah, yeah. - It can be emotional. - It was, it was a lot. And then of course the other side was like, oh, and I'm like, yeah, you guys should have talked to us before and settled this before we showed up in the courtroom, but that's okay. - And so that's how you know it wasn't staged like it was genuine. It was good, it was so. - Are you, are you a, are you Texas born in brand unis? Or how did you end up in Texas? - Yeah, good question. I'm actually, I was English as my second language. I was born in Seoul, Korea. And we moved to the North Texas area when I was seven years old. And so I had to take three months of ESL. Thankfully, I think when you're at that age, your brain is pretty pliable and you pick up languages easier, they say before 10, I think is the magic age. And so yeah, we moved to the Texas area. So I grew up here and I consider myself a Texan, but I wasn't born here, but I got here very quickly as the saying goes. - That's good, that's good. And yeah, you don't have an accent at all. - Yeah, I think, again, it's the 10. - Yeah, I think they say if you learn before the age of 10, usually the accent is in there. Again, I don't know the science behind all of that, but I will say that I'd still do multiplication in my head in Korean because you learn math early in Asian countries and back then at least, the way you learned it was memorization. And I still memorized it in Korean. And so I have to do a quick translation in my head before it comes out in English to this day. - So are the numbers, like you're saying the numbers in Korean? And then you're translating? - Okay. - Uh-huh. - Yep, that's so funny. So English also was not my first language. It was German and then Arabic. And then I learned English when I got to school. I was born here, but my parents were both immigrants who had gone, who came for university. And then I was an only child, so at home we were just, and I was at home, so we were just talking my parents native languages. - That's right. - Right. What's interesting for me is sometimes I'll still dream in German. - Mm. - Like a whole dream will be in German. - Wow. - And I'll wake up, then I kind of, you know, have remnants of the dream. And then I almost have to like translate it. You know what I mean? - I do know what you mean. - I'm processing. - I'm not. - Where am I? - Where am I? - Where am I in? - It's like a weird-- - I'm sure. - Yes, I know what you mean, because I'm sure that happens to me too. I just don't remember my dreams well, but I'm sure there's a whole field of science behind what we're talking about. - Yeah, it's so strange. And actually one of our prior guests, Papasha, she also a lawyer, came here later in life, but still younger version of herself. But when she speaks in English, she actually has it in her native language, and then she does a quick translation. So I always thought, oh, she's so deliberate and thoughtful in the way that she executes. She sounds very sophisticated, because she clearly speaks with purpose. - Yes. - And when she's speaking. But what we unearthed was, no, she's just translating. - Right, the pause is not out of deliberateness, because it's necessary for her to help. What she needs to say. And so I just thought that was really interesting to, I'm sure lots of people have that. Anytime you speak in a foreign language. - I think that's right. And good for her that it projects as being intentional, it helps her in that way. - It really does. I'm like, oh, she's so smart and she is. But there's a whole unearthing of, oh, okay, there's a whole conversation going on in your head. And in fact, I think it's interesting too, because I could see this even in my mom who was multi-lingual. But when she would talk in English, or she would talk in her native language, her personality, even though she was fluent in both, was slightly different. There were different aspects of her sense of humor that was maybe a little bit deeper in her native country, came across more complex than it did necessarily in English, right? Or for sure. - For sure. - Because you could express herself fully in her native language, which I think is kind of interesting. In fact, she passed away a couple of years ago, but one of her recent phrases resurfaced in my household that she would say, like if something didn't, she didn't like something or something didn't go well, she would say that was sucks. (laughing) - Or this is sucks. - Or just be like, no, no, that's not like you can't. - You can't go anywhere. - You can take it out. - Yeah, I'm like, it's just that suck. Or this sucks, like not this is sucks. - Yeah. - I could never get that out of her system. Anyways, but there was something that happened in a day that was so comical and I was like, that was sucks. - Like a. (laughing) - Well, passing it on to the next generation. - Yeah, it's sad. - But even like the learning youngs, my husband learned English at four, English and Arabic. So he went to a British school. - Oh, wow. - And it's funny because it depends on what it is, which language. - What version? - Like British versus. - Yeah, like which one he would be thinking about it or first. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, so it's not necessarily, Arabic all the time because it's like that was a subject that I learned in English and so that's what comes first. You should ask them what languages you do math in. Yeah, it's probably English. I don't know. I think it would depend on where he learned it. Right? Yeah. What language he learned it was in a British school. So English. Maybe English. Yeah, so maybe. Oh, so English. Yeah, probably so. Yeah. Um, fascinating. So do you still speak fluent Korean? Um, I would say I speak like a middle school aged individual. I probably can't hold a conversation about politics or economics. Uh, but I can talk about coffee or food. What's more, and then coffee? Yeah, that's right. Coffee and restaurants. I feel like we've covered like the key essentials to learn. I agree. I've done. One direction could be helpful. Yes, yes, yes. I could do a little bit more, but now I wouldn't say, you know, if I went to Korea, they'll know that I'm not from there now. Would they be impressed though that you know any Korean? I mean, these days we live in such a global society. There are a lot of even non-Korean who can speak Korean way better than I could. So I don't know that they would be impressed with me. Yeah. Funny. Um, and you have, you have children, right? You have. I have one son. I knew you had at least one boy for some reason. I think you had more than one. Um, one and then. And are you have you had a chance to teach him any Korean or he's trying for America, like first generation American. Yes, we tried. I actually thought it would be a good idea for him to be multilingual. So we did hire because we speak English at home. My husband is Japanese American. He's a New Yorker. So we speak English at home. And so I thought it would be good for him to have his cultural language instilled in him. So we got him a tutor to teach him Korean. So he can read Korean, but he can't tell you what he read. And if you don't want to use it, you lose it. Right. So he can't speak it. And again, with Japanese too, my husband speaks Japanese. He went to international school there for about eight years when he was younger. And so he can speak it probably higher level than I can speak Korean. And so we we enrolled him at a Japanese class at school. But again, if you're not using it regularly, you lose it. So he used it a little bit again to order food and say good morning. Hello, things like that when we were in Japan. But that's the extent of it. It's hard. It's hard. And it's the same experience. So like I knew how to read and write an Arabic for a long time. I learned how to conjugate verbs. Wow, two years ago. Like two years ago. I got a lot more than that. Conjugating verbs. Yeah, maybe. Okay, since COVID. Yeah. Yeah, because they started back lessons right before. Because I was like, this is really annoying. Like I can pick up half of the stuff, but I don't know. Like then I get lost. Because I knew I knew zero verbs. Like, verb. Yeah. So it's been it's been a whole thing. And I'm making my kids do it. And they're like, but I'm like, you'll think me later when you get into you. You have to have a language class. And you actually have a language that has genders, right? I think there's doesn't have genders. Yeah. Or any of the weird quirks where you're like, Oh, I can parallel and it's a lot easier to pick up some of the other ones. And at some point, if they're really interested, they've had the base. And can go back and do it. Yeah, although I, you know, wonder how much more. It's needed now with all the technology help that we have these days. So even when we were in Japan, you know, you can use Google ins and it'll instantly translate all the Japanese. So we use that a lot. Yeah. And they're going to they have headphones, right? Or your phones that instantly translate languages into your native language too. So yeah, we'll see what it looks like for our kids when they're adults. When I went to Tokyo on my last trip, it's been a couple years. But not too long ago, there was nothing in English, but I didn't have like the, it was long enough that it wasn't I didn't have like the Google translate, or that it was very accurate, especially with different characters. So I made it so much better having that. The toilet and I could talk. I could put it in English. Is it an English? I mean, it was a setting. So that was kind of cool. They are toilets were not in English. And I, I know they were not. My hotel one, yes, but outside of there, the actually the on San hotel that I talked about before, which is kind of more of a rule area of Japan. I could not figure out which one was the flush button. I had asked my husband. Because they did not have English. How do we not know it's time to flush? I would, you know, like toilet. You can do this. Yes. Keep up. It needed an upgrade. Yeah, it's all good. Love a lot toilet. Love a lot. It's time to. Time to keep up with the times. That's so funny. Yeah, like everything. Well, and I found myself in trouble because the swimming pool was you had to work cat. And then you had to go through a procedure in order to enter the pool. And then obviously you could or could not follow the procedure to get out of the pool. But I, and none of the signs were there to tell me what to do. So I kind of like stood and I'm a swimmer. So I stood and I just watched a few other women going in front of me. And I'm like, okay, I just tried to mimic what they were doing. But I still work. And I got called out for it. I don't know which part because it was in Japanese. I just smiled. Yeah, they have a lot of rules in Japan. A lot of them. And that's one thing that we always noticed in my son too, whether you get on a bus or a taxi, you will see rules posted everywhere. Like, don't you go, I don't talk. Don't do this. Be polite. Be respectful. Yes. I mean, they're all good rules. But there are a lot of rules. And a lot of the times the signs are posted in Japanese. So it's hard. Yes. I agree. That's why I got myself in trouble. So, yeah. But if you want to go to Japan, try to find out what the rules are in advance. And I would say, I think it's important to know what the rules are. Yes. Or somebody have Google in or something else. Or just make sure you go humble. That's right. That's right. So Eunice, you weren't Baylor, for undergrad, right? And I went to Ann for law school. I have so many questions about the hospitality industry, but I think it's important. I think that was fun. The hospitality industry. I think it's important to know what the rules are. And at that time, the council for the Rangers had to go on leave. And so the Rangers asked my firm for a lawyer to do her position on a part-time basis. And I got the lucky draw to do that. So I did that three days a week at the old ballpark, which is now Choctaw here in Arlington, and then two days at my office. And that stint or succumbent extended a little bit. So it ended up being about six months back in 2012 versus, you know, eight or 12 weeks or so. And then that was that. I didn't think anything of it. And as I said, I went in house with G6 hospitality. I can't remember when. I think I want to say it was 2012 or actually right about that time. So at the end of my succumbent with the Rangers, I left my firm and went to G6 hospitality went in house. Not the bug. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. But I really didn't make those connections at that time as much as, you know, it just kind of worked out for me at G6 hospitality. But when I started working there, you know, initially I started by managing litigation, which was the natural fit. But then, you know, very quickly got additional responsibilities on the franchise side, compliance side, you know, basically at some point doing everything, which I loved being part of the business. And, you know, when you're in the hotel business, it's 24/7 365. And, you know, because hotels literally don't close. And so it was a lot. But I learned so much because Blackstone had acquired G6 hospitality at the time that I joined. And, you know, Blackstone is known for they buy, they fix and they sell. And so during that time, there was a lot happening at G6 hospitality. And I learned a lot from my GC and the several GCs before as well. And so, you know, I credit that time to really honing my in house attorney business acumen. Thankfully, I was also minted. Thank you. toward by the CEO through a formal leadership program there. And they put me through a mini MBA program at SMU. Obviously, lawyers, I went to Baylor, like we talked about, but I took logic as a math substitute. I hated math, but it's important, as you know, for in-house lawyers to know how to read balance sheets and pianos because you're managing them. And so I really credit my time at G6 hospitality for really kind of honing my business acumen. And then I thought, you know, okay, great. And I became VP of legal at G6 hospitality and said to myself, okay, I'm really liking this a lot. I set a personal goal for myself that if I'm gonna continue to manage the legal function, I would love to be general counsel by the time that I hit 40. And so I set that goal for myself. I turned 40, I get a call from a colleague and a friend about an opening at Susan G. Comen breast cancer foundation for the GC role. Long story short, I applied for the role. I talked to a colleague who's a former GC, who was a former GC for Comen, met with the CEO, kind of like G6 hospitality, it just worked out organically. Obviously going from for profit to nonprofit is different, but the CEO at the time, she also was used to running for profit companies, was a breast cancer survivor and said there's actually a lot of similarities. You are running an organization, it's a nonprofit organization. So where the revenue goes looks different, but everything else in many ways is the same, right? Because you have to have revenue to deliver the mission. And that's what Susan G. Comen does. And so I joined Susan G. Comen. I believe in, oh my gosh, I can't remember 2018, 2019 or so. And at Susan G. Comen, and I didn't know at the time, but I worked there for about a year, year and a half, and then I was diagnosed myself with breast cancer. And you just can't make that stuff up, right? And so I joined Comen, not knowing that I would go through my own personal journey. And again, you couldn't be at a better place in terms of support if you're going to go through something like that. And so obviously the support of all of the management team, the board, my legal team, and really was able to go through that journey at Comen. And when I was at Comen, the CFO of the Rangers sat on Comen's Finance Committee. And one of our minority owners of the Texas Rangers also sat on the Investment Committee of Susan G. Comen. And so again, you just can't make up things like that. And so we just kept in touch through those roles. And then when the GC rule for the Rangers came open in 20, we're in 26 now, in 24 or 25 or so, whenever that was, they called me and it worked out organically again. And so again, I wasn't planning on it, but through the relationships and just kind of my journey. And who and where people were at the time, it just worked out that way. And so I think that's how I ended up here with the Rangers. - I mean, there's so many things unpack there. I think we'll get to the breast cancer if you're okay, talking a little bit about it. But it reiterates, I think, in something that I share with mentees when I'm working with them. Like you just never know who you're surrounded by and how it might come full circle. And to always be cognizant of how you're being received, how you're messaging, communicating, what your personal brand is. In fact, today I had a call for work and it was a really weird way how he got there. But we have a prior guest that was on Council Brew that I had used as a lawyer for many years. I reach out to him, I'm like, "Hey, I need some help." Here's what I'm thinking. He helped give some strategic advice. And he's like, "Remember, we worked with this lawyer up in whatever the state that this matters related to." And I'm like, "Oh yeah, anyways, fast forward 48 hours, I'm on the phone with that lawyer. It's been 10 years since I've talked to him." And I was like, "Yes, he was amazing." Like, "Why didn't I?" And I was in a very different stage in my career 10 years ago. As was he, but now he's a partner in the firm and is the exact perfect fit for what we need him for as far as advice goes. And it was just, I was seeing in that moment today reflecting exactly on what you're saying, having them on these different committees and the fact that you were there even just for, I don't know if they were there when you were there for six months, but the impression you would have left then. Obviously, you left a great impression. - Whatever it was, right? I mean, it's the connection at a minimum and the relationship. And so it's exactly what you're saying. And it's the same thing that I tell other mentees too. You just never know. And it's always people that hire people. Obviously, if you're kind of at this role or in this role, you're gonna have the technical skills, right? And you're gonna build those technical skills over time. But I always hire people based on the intangibles in addition to the technicals. The technicals have to be there. But what makes the connections is the intangibles and the relationships at the end of the day. - Yeah, well, I was also thinking about like, the other things that different positions offer, right? Because one of the things that we try to kind of fool the veil back is like, there's not just one path to success and that there aren't, it's just not, it's not linear. - It's not linear, but going from a for-profit to nonprofit, I mean, I'm sure pay structures are a lot different, right? Mission-driven and obviously it's a nonprofit. So you have to raise enough capital to be able to pay everybody. But there are other benefits to those positions, right? 'Cause you and I started out the city and it was like, well, it was a great place for me to start a family, right? But the hours were what they were and even at the federal government, right? When you're at the government, if you work over time, you have to get approval at the federal government, you have to get approval and if you don't have it, you can't do it. So when you have a kid who's under two, that's great, right? 'Cause the likelihood of me being able to stay here until seven at night is not happening. 'Cause I gotta pick them up from daycare. So there are other benefits to consider in those positions. And obviously, you might not have known that that was gonna be a benefit that you needed at the time, but it turned out to be the perfect place for that because of the journey that you had to go on at the time. So it's always those other things to consider. You know, it's not, it doesn't have to be what everybody else tells you that is the shiny thing, right? Of course, comments at great organization, but just in general of making that transition out of the for-profit world and even the transition out of private practice. - 100% right? - 100% right? - You trade off different things, right? - Absolutely. And I think both of you hit the nail on the head. You know, there's also a time and a place. You know, when a certain role might work now, it might, to your point, not have worked five, 10 years ago based on where you are in the season of your life and what the priorities are. And so, you know, all of those things have to align. I think I personally believe, you know, and my faith teaches me that, you know, there's a time and a place and there's a season. It's okay not to be or to follow the mold of what everybody else says should happen. And things will happen when they should happen. - Yes. So I do have one more question. So this transition, you know, from into Texas Rangers, do they have a mini MBA program for like, how to do baseball stats? (laughing) - All right. - No. - That's a no. - You don't study that. (laughing) - You don't study that. - Well, the way I learned it is actually through my kid, who is a travel baseball player. So my family is a huge baseball family. And so when the Rangers did call, I actually didn't have much of a say so because my son said, "Mom, if you don't take this job, I will judge you for the rest of my life." - Oh my gosh. And you're thinking, I always wonder what the moments are that my children someday may need therapy for, you know? - Mm-hmm. - That definitely would have been a moment. Had she said no? - Yes, yes. So that made the decision for us. - Well, I have lots of Texas Rangers questions in your role there, but before we go there, are you now in remission during full remission? - Yes, I have been for gosh, and November it will be five years. - That's incredible. So yeah, that is, you really can't make that up. - No. - Going to a foundation for breast cancer and then discovering you have it yourself. I, you know, we'll do a little side note here. If you're not getting breast screening, you should. - That's right. - And I was young and it hits women younger and younger. Unfortunately, despite all the advancements and there have been a lot just to put in a plug, one area where actually we need more research is why there's an increase in diagnosis of breast cancer in younger women than ever before. And that's, I think, probably true across other cancers too, but having worked at Komen, I know that the numbers for women younger under the age of, you know, traditionally what we thought, it's increasing. And so it's absolutely important and it's not okay to skip your trainings. It's not. And the technology keeps improving year over year. I think just even five years ago now having the 3D screening is super helpful. And then I feel like there's a lot of education around self breast examination, which I think is so important and can be vital. I have a close friend her husband discovered her lump. Yes, things. Right. Right. Yep. But like you're like, yes, like I had to have grown enough to a size that her husband would have picked up on it. Right. That's right. And that is one of the common ways that it's discovered. But if you're doing your regular screenings and now the age has been lowered for breast cancer, as you know, for screenings and insurance to cover. So you should absolutely take advantage of those screenings because the earlier and thankfully because of all the research that's been done over the years, breast cancer is one of those cancers that the earlier you detect your outcomes are very good. It's one of those cancers that we can cure if caught early. So it's absolutely crucial. This morning, I think it was this morning, it could have been yesterday morning. I read that there's some research that's been done that is actually sort of flipping the approach to breast cancer where it's traditionally been to do surgery and then treat with some sort of radiation or whatever the next steps are. Or chemotherapy that it's actually trying to reduce the tumors first and then maybe not even need surgery. So I think that's also really interesting. It's just so dynamic and. It is actually I took that route. So I did chemo first and then I had surgery and I finished with radiation. But one thing that we've learned that has been game changing for breast cancer treatment. And it was a common funded study years ago before decades ago, if you got diagnosed with breast cancer, you would automatically get chemo and everybody got chemo. But what we learned through research is that cancers are very different there and it's very individualized. And so treatment should be individualized. And since this study, we have learned that not all breast cancer types require chemo as we now know. We have saved hundreds of thousands of women from having to go through that very grueling treatment. And so that's why research is so important. But it's also treatment is now very much individually tailored. Then it was before I saw that or I think it was the it was like radiation that they're in creep like it's like these doses right before. Oh, yeah, yes. And then it's not as you're just not being submitted to. And so that's the thing is that they're trying to figure out to make treatments better. I mean, there's so a long way to go. And this is why funding for research is so important. Anyway, I'll get absolutely absolutely. Thank you for sharing a little bit about that with us. And especially for women, right? Because yeah. And men get breast cancer too. So yes, but I want to make sure that men understand that they can get breast cancer also. It's a weird cancer. I agree. Well, hopefully they continue to do the research and things continue to improve for anybody who finds themselves in a situation where they may have cancer or have cancer. Okay. Well, you want to talk some baseball. I always find like, oh, no, what are they going to ask? Don't ask me to interpret stats for you. No, shouldn't have that many. Do you collect cards? My son does. That's so good. It's still a thing. That's good to know. Yes, it is a thing. So some of the thing my husband still has all his cards. Oh, he's local does. Yeah, I don't know what we'll do with them, but we have them. And I think that I thought we're going to interesting when you and I spoke a few months ago, like some of your day to day challenges that you have is so different or dealings. I don't want to say everything's a challenge, right? But think interactions that you do are different than even like what other in house folks are doing just because you're in the sports industry. You know, I've worked for one company that had name recognition if you had children and that was Kidcraft. So like if you had the wooden toys or the outdoor playgrounds, it was likely Kidcraft. That's as close as I've gotten to like a huge name brand. Even my current company were industry specific in a very different way. Oh, City of Dallas. I don't guess so. I never thought of it that way though. I did. That's why I went there. I was like, well, the big D. Yeah, because I was at a very small firm and I'm like, well, if I go to Dallas, everybody knows who my employer is. Well, that's true. Okay. That's fair. Also, maybe I have, but I don't, but I don't. I'm not going to compare the city of Dallas to the Texas Rangers. What's teaming is like a different is very different. So I was hoping you could share with us a little bit about some of the interesting things that you're doing that probably seem day to day to you. But like I don't my client is very different. No super stars. No superstars. I mean, they might argue differently. I see a big personality. But it's not asking for an autograph or these days are big time global celebrities. I think it's a great chance to trade with my clients faces on a. Yeah, no CPA in cars. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, you know, people would be surprised that a lot of what I do is very similar to a lot of what other GCs or in house lawyers for other organizations do what I tell people regularly because the first question is, do you work on player contracts or, you know, do you deal with player issues when they get in trouble? And the answer to both of those questions is no. And it's generally no for most large professional sports teams because we are unionized in terms of on the player side. So, you know, a lot of those issues, frankly, are dealt by the agents of the players and MLB and baseball operations. I handle most of the business issues that come across the club, just like, you know, you would at your companies. So I would say the vast majority of my work are business issues and that includes things like contracts, IP employment compliance, right? So the day to day that every GC manages for the legal department is a big bulk of it. Now, do I have nuanced sports specific issues because we're a sports team. Absolutely. Do I have to, you know, run things by MLB all the time? Absolutely because they have a plethora of rules and, you know, we have agreements and we've got, you know, the players association. And so there are a lot of players involved, but I think people would be surprised that a lot of my job is very similar to a lot of their jobs. And many things. Do you get to go to the games regularly? Yeah, I mean, I'm at the ballpark, you know, we're very much an in person culture, which I love because we are a team, both baseball and otherwise we collaborate a lot. So we're physically here. Obviously my son is here a lot too, which he loves. It's a good perk, but we go to as many games as we can. And sometimes if they're day games, you know, I'm in my office versus outside of my office at the game, but I go to as many as I can. I love it. How much swag do you own? Well, a lot, a lot. On purpose or is this that's what happens both both because I think all the promo items, you know, we they circulate the employees get. And then you know, we get discounts on top of the promo items that they pass out. So I've got a lot of Rangers merch and my son is the beneficiary of all of it. Do you have a favorite item that you're like, yes. Well, my I guess we have the replica world series ring. Now some of the executives over here during the world series, when, which I was not they have their own real world series ring. And I was not a replica because I wasn't here. And so that's that's one of my sons favorite. And then, you know, you got to love the bubble heads. The bubble head. So I'm adding to the bubble head collection. I love that. I need to make a unis bubble. Yeah. And then I had a bubble head made of him and it's sitting on his office desk and it's one of his fun fun things. I think you should. Yeah. You can see it next to the new automated coffee machine. Yes. Yes. On your desk. I know that's the bubble head. That's the ball ball. And that was a bad question. You can ask the ball. I was going to ask about favorite snacks or like what like the experience that you enjoy each time you go into the ballpark. Favorite food at the ballpark. And I, we have a Bahama Bucks here. And I love Bahama Bucks. And so when we have daygames, I'll take my team down and treat them to Bahama Bucks. Because you can make your own, you know, what flavorings and all of that. Favorite food ice. Yeah. time. So that's one of my favorites. My kid loves the blue bell ice cream and the helmet that says favorite. And he takes home that little helmet. And we've got God knows how many helmets at home from all the ice cream helmets he's had. You probably collect them the way I collect SMU cups. I have so many stats. I find the linguist a few the other day. Yeah, it was a lot. I don't know how they come home. Still, like I'm still collecting them because I'll go to alumni event or whatever. Yep. It's not stagnant. The collection. No. You find yourself. So like I know you travel for baseball, not for the Rangers, but for, well, setting aside the Rangers for your son because he's doing its club baseball. He plays play club. Although he's still young, so the travel's not intense yet. Yet. I like that. Yet. Just wait. Just wait. I'm in the travel world. I have two players and we are, we have just entered travel season. So special. It is special. We're doing Cooper. Town this year. So I'm excited about that because he's 12 and you can only play in Cooper's town at 12 U. So that's. Oh, look forward to. That's cool. Yeah. I like it. So I added to I'm like, oh, I get to go to Boston and Philly and New Orleans and other places this year in the next couple of months. Like, do you find I am not, you know, I don't work in the professional volleyball world, but I also as Shrine has reminded me, it worked for the city of Dallas. And there were times where I would be doing non city related stuff, but my city brain was still going. So like, I would observe things that I'm like, hmm, that could get fixed or that could be leveled up or whatever. Like I'm wondering, what your son's travel and club baseball. Do you see things that you're like, oh, that could be more efficient or that could get improved or they this experience could be so much better if yeah, all the time, um, all the times. And I am a crazy baseball mom. So I have to restrain myself and pull myself back into my son played baseball even before I joined the Rangers. So I will say I was crazier before I took on this role. But now that I've taken on this role, I restrain myself more because I'm extra conscientious that, you know, I don't want my role with the Rangers to spill over in any way to my son's world because they're completely different, completely different. But I do find myself asking questions when things happen that I question asking the baseball guys here, like, hey, what do you think about this? Hey, what do you think about that? Just, you know, getting a second opinion from the big league. So I do, I do ask, but I keep it to myself as much as I can. Let me show you this video. Now tell me. So I know what a crazy soccer mom looks like. Cause I've seen those. I know what a crazy ball and ball mom looks like. What's a crazy baseball mom look like? Oh, well, crazy baseball moms are very vocal. So you do game changer, right? We don't do game changer. Oh, okay. Well, so in baseball, we do game changer and you will hear them if you ever tap into game changer. But that said, you know, I have a rule. We only yell at our own kids. We don't yell at anybody else's kids, right? Because that's a good rule. Yeah. But I mean, you see a lot of them too. It's like, wow, you're yelling at all the kids. So you can hear them on game changer. And mostly it's positive and it's exciting. And, you know, they're just into the game. And they've got all the things like, you know, trunks full of wagons, you know, bats, snag bins, you know, things to hold everything under the sun. They've got the gosh, the bags, the bog bags. They're really big in the baseball world to put all the snacks and all the back tape and all the band aids and all the, you know, hand warmers and all the gum and all the seeds. And you're just, that's what a baseball mom looks like. What's your favorite stadium like game watching must have as a parent? You know, the folding chair, folding chair, folding chair. So you don't sit on the bleachers. I would, I'm a band mom. So that's that I can't tribute like all the other things, but the chair was like essential essential. Interesting. That's a must. You got to have the chair. So I took my oldest to a softball game, high school softball game before she started at that school. It was like a, you know, student day or like future student day. And I was surrounded by all these parents that, you know, their kids, their daughters were softball players. And the woman I ended up sitting next to had on her, it was cold. She had on her heated vest. She had a special like thermal type blanket. Her top was not traditional like Yeti. It was like souped up. And I can't remember what it was at the time. I have the warmer to keep your coffee warm. It had something like nice additional. And then her head gear was very specific like this was what she wore on game day. It was, but she, she was quiet. She wasn't like a yell or even clapper if you know, just she's there. She's there. And she was suited up. And I, I mean, I ended up buying a heated vest after that because of soccer games. I was like, why? I don't, well, they don't I have a heated one. It's wrong with the soccer moms. Yeah. Like the weather pods. I have seen those. So there were soccer parents that had like, it's a lot to process. I don't see what they miss. We can't do weather. I mean, if it's raining, we can't play for band. No, no, you can't do the weather pod in the band stands. Yeah. That doesn't work. Like it's not for stadium. That's right. The weather is, it's like a standalone port of potty, but like a, a, a forever, yeah, it's like a mini tent that, yeah, it protects you. It's gonna be down with it. Now you like to step inside. And then you can like zip yourself in and in clear. And it's just, I, yes. Yeah. It's that's nothing. There's a whole world in an industry in a market. We're in the wrong industry. When you get done at the Rangers, reach out to Shrine and me and we will call on good business ideas. Gear, gear, yeah, parent gear for outdoor sports and indoor sports, frankly, because it's a lot of whistles at volleyball. So, okay. Yeah. I'm gonna have to look a few of these things up. I'm like, hmm, okay. What is that? I don't know. Yeah. I can level you up. You have a few more years of band in your, in your future. Yeah. Yeah. Eight more years. Yeah. I've already been in it for six. Yeah. Yeah. Well, eight years. Well, when you keep having children, that's why. Yeah. Yeah. I've been in it for six years at high school level. So I don't go back. I've already been in it for eight years. Yeah. So it'll be 16 years total. Oh, this is why I have one child. Yeah. One and done. You do it well the first time and then, you know, can you check it? So long time. So you've done all, you've done some really cool, incredible things. I love where you're at now. You seem very happy and it's been such a joy getting to learn a little bit more about your role at the Texas Rangers. I've had the benefit of multiple conversations with UNIS on this. But, you know, you said earlier that you set a goal for yourself at 40 that you wanted to be general counsel. Do you still have some career goals? You don't have to reveal like, you know, but like just big, I'd, big goals of things in life professionally or personally that you still really want to accomplish. Because I would imagine having survived breast cancer too also puts things in perspective. That's right. And things that you want to accomplish. Like an incredible trip to Japan where you get to enjoy beautiful coffee makers and amazing toilets. Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty good one. Yeah. No, that's a really good question. And I think what you brought up, somewhat impacted my aspirations and career goals, which was, you know, I think of life in terms of before cancer and after cancer in many ways. And I would say, you know, I had the goal to hit the GC role by 40 before cancer. That was my goal. I was very goal oriented, you know, like most lawyers are. And I still am and very laser focused on those goals. I would say after cancer, the way that I looked at my career changed in terms of being more goal oriented to those goals building over into my personal life so that my life life is more balanced. And I think, you know, it helps when you go through something like cancer, it helps reprioritize or at least gain clarity around what's important in life and what's not important in life. And for me, what's important is balance to be able to raise your family and to contribute to your family and to your community and what that looks like. And does your career and job allow you to do those things that are important? And if the answer is no, then that's not a priority for me. And so that's how I look at my goals going forward post-cancer. And I think had I not gone through my journey, probably would still be looking at my goals and the way that I was before, which is very technical, driven. And again, I'm still driven. I think we all tend to be, but I think balance is a better way to describe how I view things and the lens through which I view things. And does this job or this career or this organization give me that balance because at the end of the day, and I'm sure everyone's heard this adage, when you're on your deathbed, your kids not going to say, "Oh, I wish you'd worked more," right? But they will remember all the times that you were there and took those wonderful trips like you mentioned or sat there yelling like a crazy baseball mom. So I think balance is important. Love it. All right. So you've been on a very interesting journey. We've touched on a few of them. So we're going to take you to our triple S segment. I'm sure you went into some stupid shit along the way to get to where you wanted to be or even when you were trying to achieve those big goals. And I don't know, I can just imagine at the hospitality industry, but you probably can't talk about all of it because it's privileged. That's great. Oh, yeah. If it happens in America, it happens in hotels. I wish that it wasn't so long because that would definitely be the triple S. That's so funny. So do you have a story you would like to share with us today? What kind of story? Any stupid shit maybe happened to you. You don't with someone else's stupid shit you had to clean up. You name it. It's game. Yeah. Oh gosh. I'm kind of thinking through, you know, the different organizations that I've been with. And I think mostly it was at my law firm. One thing that I do remember is having a whole year-than-dow attitude once at a happy hour with some with either lost students or younger associates. I don't remember. We were at a happy hour. And I was still a young attorney at the time. And I think there's this adage that says, you know, at work functions, you shouldn't have more than two drinks at a work function. I'm sure everybody's heard that. And so I've always had that instilled in my head for some reason. And we were at a happy hour. And I had only had one drink. And we were walking out. I believe with a lost student at the time. And I was trying to convey why you should have only two drinks at work functions. And again, I didn't know why it's just something that was pounded into my head. And as I did that, I tripped and fell outside in the parking lot and laid out flat with a skirt suit. And I'm sure that lost student thought I was the biggest idiot on the planet and literally ate my words. But it wasn't because I wasn't ebriated or anything like that. But I just, but I'm sure that's what it looked like at the time. So I do remember that and literally eating my words because I was laid out flat on the parking lot floor with a skirt suit on. I mean, I probably would have just stayed laying there hoping that everybody else would just keep walking. If I can't see you, you can't see me. Yes, yes. That's been a defense and court before. Yep. Yep. Or one of your cases, the one of the traffic cases. I'm like, okay. I realize as well with that philosophy. That's so funny. Oh, that's a, but yes, you should also, because even without the drinks, you might trip. That's right. So I would say, you know, having a whole other than that attitude early on in my career. That was a good example of one. That's funny. Just like the Thomas the Tank Engine quote, what do they say? Pride always comes before a fall. And in my case, it was literally a fall. Mm-hmm. Yes, literally, literally. I will never forget that moment. There was a Shrine and I shared a paralegal at one of our stints together. I didn't need to know. No, no, no, not that one. Not $1. - No one city at all. - No, no one. - Yeah, different one. Oh, no, I'm not following that story. - Yeah. - Shrine was panicked for a second that I was going down a different story that Shrine was-- - Yes. - That's a further another day for anyone listening. Just ask about that one offline, but no, we shared a paralegal at one of our jobs and she was like a good 15 years older than us. It had been very well-seasoned senior paralegal and she had done, told us this story where she had to go file something at the federal courthouse. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that was back in the day when you had to actually, like you still were dressed in pantyhose with heels, like that was how she was expected to show up at work. And of course, you know, nothing was filed online. And you know, she was like working downtown at a firm as the paralegal and she had to basically run to the courthouse because it was like whatever the cutoff was. And so she was in her dress and heels and all the things. Anyways, she had stopped in the restroom and no one told her of all the people she saw that her dress was tucked into her pantyhose. And she made it all the way to the courthouse. - Oh. - And back, not knowing that the breeze was because of her dress and it was like, no. - It's like summer and Texas, right? It's hot, so you're grateful that, you know, there's any breeze, there's a breeze at all. - Oh, that's amazing. - You know, and when she got back to the office, she realized it and she was just like, I don't even know who to be embarrassed in front of because there were so many people that could have seen it. And then shame on them for not telling me. - Yep, yep. - Bless her heart. I actually had a similar moment like that happen to me. I think we were at that one of the DBA balls where you install the DBA president. And I had on a long formal dress and after using the restroom did not realize that my dress was also tucked in. But thankfully, a kind colleague who I did not know told me before I left the restroom or I would have flashed all of the judges on Dallas County and every member of the bar that was at the DBA inaugural ball. And so God bless the colleague that told me. And you know, I think the lesson from that is be the woman that tells the other woman when something like that happens. Whether it's spinach and teeth, you know, dress tucked in like be the kind person. Be kind. - I feel like if we had had toad toilets, like the toilet would have known to untape you. - The toad would have told you. - Were you left? - Yes. - Yes. - I'm just saying. - I kind of feel like we've come full circle. - I feel free. - So the conclusion is we all need toad toilets. - Yes. - Yes, that's the takeaway here. - And just like when you came back from Tokyo or from Japan, you thought it was important to get this impressive, softer, with a self-adamated computer machine. Mine was where is our toad toilet. (laughing) This day I still don't have it, but I saw my bucket list. - I don't know, I feel like we might have to just go and get them, import them ourselves. - Okay. - With the computer. We'll just put it all in the same shape. - Yeah, yeah. - Just make it not bad. Yeah, sounds fun. - Let's do it. - Well, this was amazing, Eunice. Thank you for coming and being a part of our conversation. And I love you even more now that I know what your favorite brew is. (laughing) So much fun. - Thank you for listening today. We hope you enjoyed this incident conversation. If you liked this episode, please text a friend right now to tell them about this amazing podcast you've discovered that you know they would enjoy, because we all need to find our inner bad history. - And don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find us on social media at KnollsoBroom. If you'd love for you to leave a comment, or even better, share a pick of you in your favorite brew. - Until next time.