Betrayal: Secrets & Lies with ABC News Studios | BONUS

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, this is Kylie breakman, Angel Jaretana. Jeremy Cole, Hank Cash McDonald. And we're the hosts of the artist on artist on artist on artist podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? Hi, he, he winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. You get, I hear you get the almost here. The eyelashes hate each other. You never seen it least so quiet. As when the Pope gets up to ring on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists every Thursday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1986, a man named Scott McLean was killed in broad daylight. Police quickly found their suspect. Prosecutors convicted him. But now almost 40 years later, I'm re-examining this case. I really didn't believe any of it was real. And I was like, well, they're, they're going to figure out this is not me. They're, they're going to do their police job. Has the wrong man been in prison this whole time? Listen to examined the backfire effect on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby. We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. Where we get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty gritty stuff we all think about. But just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You're not incurable, you're not broken. You're having a normal human experience and we have a solution for that. And that solution is our podcast free therapy. I'm Ben. And I'm Kevin. And every week we talk to leading therapists in the country about relationships, work, family dynamics, and all of life settings. If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually fueling more anxiety. So listen to free therapy because therapy is expensive, but our podcast is free. Listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I am joined today by David Sloan, Emeryl Pearson. I know who you are and you guys are huge advocates of betrayal. But can you tell the audience who you are in relationship to the show? David, why don't you go first? Sure, I'm the creative lead for ABC News Long Form, which comprises ABC News Studios 2020 nightline and impact our other news magazines. So I'm the creative lead over content. And I'm Emeryl Pearson. I'm the executive producer over here overseeing your wonderful show, Andrea. And yeah, I work really closely with David on a lot of the things that he's working on. But I work really closely with your producer, John Hirsch, on making beautiful television out of your amazing podcast. How did you guys get into true crime? David is the king of true crime. You, I'm passing that to you. I mean, I have been doing crimes since I worked on 2020, 25 years ago, or maybe a little longer. And I became the executive producer for 20 years. And it's farading out these stories of not only the most notorious. And it's like the seven deadly sins. I mean, why crimes are committed? It's jealousy, it's envy, it's anger. These are universal kinds of feelings in humanity. But I, the eighth deadly sin is betrayal. It's almost the eighths deadly sin. It's not in there, along with Gladney and Sloth and all of those other ones. But it really is one of the deadly sins. And again, it has a commonality where someone everywhere on earth has been betrayed by someone big or small. I'm so curious. What made you guys interested in taking the weekly series and converting it to TV? Obviously, we've Jen Stacey's story, Jen's story, and Ashley's story. Yes. What made you interested in the weekly format? It's been remarkable. These limited series on Hulu have been remarkably received and keep adding viewers all the time in terms of driving subscriptions on Hulu. And then we just thought, like, why are we doing this for the network? But you know what Dre is? What is really remarkable about this is we all ask about how transferable these kinds of stories and the popularity is between platforms. And I think what we've learned from your show and a couple others is with a very, very powerful podcast that translates into network. That translates into viewers on Hulu. And it is astonishing to me because there are very few things that migrate cross-platform with the success of betrayal. And we've seen it happen time and again, certainly with a Hulu series. And with the network series as well, your listeners, your audience are tuned in to watch these stories as they evolve on television series. There are very loyal community. And so it's really cool to see them support every phase of betrayal, whether it be when we went from limited to the weekly. And then when we launched the show on Hulu, so it's really cool to see the feedback from the listeners and then advocate for the show and for the storytellers. What are some of the stories that you're looking forward to the most this season? I mean, obviously I have my dark links, but I'm curious which ones are yours. - I'm looking forward to the abduction. I mean, where do you get the story of, first of all, the best stories have the perpetrator or the husband, as I will call him. He's really a perpetrator. The best villains are the ones hiding in plain sight. So this guy is a devoted father. He's a financial advisor who his clients trust. He's an elder at their church. And to think that he also would get involved in abduction and ransom and a soundproof dungeon with victims, it's almost shocks the conscience. And it is really the ones who are hiding in plain sight that are truly remarkable and the most frightening. - What about you, Maryl? - I am looking forward to Morgan because Morgan is so spunky. Morgan is successful. Morgan is not going to let anybody take her down. Morgan fights back as many of these women do. You don't have to be victimized. You don't have to take it from somebody. You can do something about it. And it is fascinating to me how a woman like Morgan kind of shows you a little bit of the heart of darkness because one little theme that I've seen emerge from this series is a lot of men who really didn't feel comfortable with their wives' success. That they really, who knows at what point they decided they wanted to take that down? But it was a power thing. It wasn't just a betrayal thing, which is already awful enough. But it really raised questions in my mind about what the ultimate, deeper, darker motivation of some of these men was. Were they trying to take that woman down? - It's such a great point when you watch Crystal Harris's episode. You will find similarities between Sean Harris, which is Crystal's husband and Rodney, Morgan's ex-husband. Different scenarios. Crystal was the breadwinner. She was working. He was taking care of the kids. And then he experiences loss. And he starts to change. The same story is very similar in Morgan's case. It's really to see those themes come up in these perpetrators and the offenders. It's so fascinating. - Yes. - The one thing I was going to say off your point, David, about these perpetrators hiding in plain sight is some of these stories are hiding in plain sight. I remember when Don Yell emailed us. I think our email was like three sentences long. And it was just like big fan of the podcast, really quick in and out. You would have no idea what that woman went through. She just heard the show, she wrote in. And you would never know that her husband at one point had dungeon in a random rental property. (laughing) It's a real indication of you just don't know what someone has gone through or what they're going through. - I'm so full of admiration to the glass group. Because what you have done with the podcast and we've been lucky enough to meet you and to collaborate with you on the network and on Hulu is that you've created a sisterhood. - Yeah. - You've created a sisterhood not of just listeners, but women who can bear witness to stories like the other listeners. And it's very, very impressive and rare. And the fact that it keeps regenerating and really snowballing into almost this sort of movement of women sharing these stories and taking power and empowering themselves, it's just this collective strength that I really admire all of you for bringing this about. - I'll thank you for saying that. That means a lot to me. - What I kind of love about this series is true crime in the past has taken a little bit of criticism because it's been too much about the crime, the salacious of the crime or the perpetrator. This brings it firmly into the-- space of the victims, of the people to whom the crime is being perpetrated on, but I've got to say that there's something incredibly emotionally compelling about constantly reframing the crime within that context between a woman's inside of a woman's point of view. Although I shouldn't just say a woman because I mean, we should tease it a little bit, Andrea, that we have a man. We have a male. We do have a trail. It's our coming up. We do, Ramon, and he was the first man that we had on the weekly, and that was a watershed moment, obviously aside from Tyler on the, you know, the Hulu doc, it was, I think Tyler really set a stage for men to participate in betrayal, because I do think that there's a, there is a level of shame in every storyteller where they feel they are the only one that got duped. They're the only one that didn't see it. And I think for male storytellers, it's really hard in particular. And Ramon, man, is he not just so strong and willing and just to stand on his two feet and say, this is what happened to me. I am so grateful to the both of you for believing in betrayal and just being a fan of the show and the stories. And so I can't thank you enough. Maryl, do you want to tell the audience where they can find betrayal secrets and lies? The trail secrets and lies coming to the ABC News Network near you, Sundays, 10 o'clock eastern standard time, streaming on Hulu and Disney Plus afterwards. Watch us and be part of that wonderful sisterhood that David was talking about. Thank you guys. I really appreciate you taking the time. Hi, this is Kylie Breikman, Angela Jaretana, Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald, and we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists on artists podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. And we do a little Halloween sometime. He, he winks on a Halloween. I hear you get the almost here. The eyelashes hit each other. You never seen it least so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. But now, almost 40 years later, I'm re-examining this case. I really didn't believe any of it was real, and I was like, well, they're gonna figure out this is not me. They're gonna do their police job. As the wrong man been in prison this whole time, listen to examined the Backfire Effect on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez, where we get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. You're not incurable. You're not broken. And that solution is our podcast for e-therapy. I'm Ben. And I'm Kevin. And every week we talk to a leading therapist in the country about relationships, work, family dynamics, and all of my settings. If you're trying to get rid of anxiety, you're actually viewing more anxiety. Listen to free therapy with Ben and Kevin on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.