Beth Closes The Ballet Studio | "The Music and the Mirror" (514)

This is a HeadGum Podcast. On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into season 5 episode 14, The Music and The Mirror. As Beth questions her future after the collapse of her dance studio, Kate searches for purpose and confidence, Kevin reflects on the life he's building with Madison and Toby struggles with feeling lost after losing his job. Hello guys. What's going on? Hello. We were just saying this is this episode got us in the beginning, like before the credits even before we would get to like this, that was, this is us, I forgot the name of the show. This is us. Yeah. That was us. Yeah. That was them. It was, well, because it reminded you of how many small businesses just could not make it through that pandemic. It was a massive hit to everything and all the ingenuity. You saw restaurants coming up with outdoor dining so that folks could continue to come or what have you, but like some people just couldn't make it. My TV wife, Beth, after finding this dream and sort of like pouring her all into it and opening up the studio, there's this montage and the kids are dancing and things are going great. And then COVID hits, right? Yeah, because it was September, right, of like 2019 when she opened the studio and then the doing class and masks, then they're doing class over Zoom, right. And then the population of the boxes, that's right. The population in person, because the people in mask and some people are like, I'm not going to do this mask. And so now that they go to the Zoom and there's all the boxes and then the boxes get few and fewer and fewer final classes, three little boxes. And one of the boxes is Annie. I was like, oh, what a sweet heart. Yeah. I just, I just realized that there's an Annie in Paradise and, and this is us. I just realized that. Really? Do you think Dan did that on purpose? I'm going to ask him if there's something about Annie, because that's, that's, that's, that's interesting. Sorry. Is there an Annie in the land? No. Okay. So maybe not. Maybe not. But it was, I, I cried, I, I legitimately cried because, I don't know, there's something, there's something about Sue as Beth that is particularly like, I don't want to see her go through any, like I want her to be protected at all costs. Yeah. Sure. Because she's so strong and does so much for her husband and her family that things should go well for her. Yeah. That's, that's how I feel like. Yeah. Things should go well for this woman. You know what I'm saying? It took her a lifetime to actually have the courage to do the thing that she loves. And then to have it there. And then circumstances beyond in anyone's control. Took it away from her. Yeah. I feel like our audience felt that way too. Yeah. Like, we're just, everybody can have whatever opinion they want about anybody in the show. But Beth? Yeah. We're coming for you. Like never, never faltered. All good things for this woman, please. Yeah. Only good thing. And I have something better. Oh, it was hard for me. Yeah. But then I want to, this, this episode, and these last two in particular, leading into, because the finale is 16, right? We only did 16. Well, that's right. Yeah, we have one more. So we have one more episode. I can't believe that. 14, then we'll do 15. What I am sort of struck by in this episode, or this run is, it feels very Empire Strikes Backish, which means, let me clarify, things don't always work out the way that you want them to. Right. Like, I think our show is overwhelmingly positive with regards to you put one foot in front of the other. And even when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade or whatever you do. And I think that stays true through this, through this whole period, but like, things don't go according to plan. Yeah. And like, there's a certain feeling of like, as I'm watching it, because I know what's about to happen. And I see the foreshadowing of things, and I see people speaking into each other and trying to say, like, everything's going to work out. Everything's going to work out. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Some of those things just don't. And that is, there's another crux of our show, right? Yeah. Is that life must be approached with the hope that everything is going to work out. Yeah. And the flexibility to receive the impact and and shift when things go wrong. Yeah. You hope that everything's going to go the way you want it to, but you have to know that it's not going to, right? And so how do you, how do you react when that happens? Yeah. How do you hold both of those things at the same time? That is like the trick of being human, right? Yeah. It's like playing, it's like trying to trick your brain, and because hoping and the reality of the world are two totally different things. Sure. And so how can, how can you possibly hope that everything is going to go well? And you know it's not going to. Yeah. Like it's, you are committed to staying on the path of, I don't know if it's a path of positivity or whatnot, you know, looking for the best possible scenario, but not attached to an outcome. Yeah. Well, because at a certain point, like if you don't have this engine that allows you to get up and put on your clothes and, and believe that something good is for you that day and the next and the next. Yeah. Then at a certain point, you start putting on clothes, you know, you stay in bed. And even though you know it's not going to be perfect, you're like, well, you know what, today's a new day and today's a new day. And if it didn't go that way, well, then then today's another new day, like it's, it's not easy. No. Yeah. And it's interesting to see it like in these next couple of episodes, and it's weird watching it, knowing what's going to happen because like I see like Randall saying things and I see other people like trying to speak positivity into something and you're like, and sometimes it's just, that's just not the case, you know. So you want to do, you guys want to do the Beth story behind. Sure. First. Yeah. I'm confused as to whether or not it's 14, 15, hold on. We have this montage, right, that we talked about with Beth, but it's also sort of juxtaposed with young Beth kind of tossed in there as well. Yep. And her love of dance and her abandoning that. Yeah. You see her throw away all of her ballet, sort of, her point. Her point shoes. Yeah. That sort of tree of old point shoes and like all of the work. All of the years of discipline to wear down those point shoes, to move on to another pair of point shoes. And it was just like to watch that unceremoniously dumped into the garbage. Yeah. I remember, I thought about this when I quit tennis my freshman year of college. Yeah. And it was like the exact opposite for me. I walked away and was like never, never looked back. Never looked back. In fact, I walked out, walked out into the, it was tumultuous when I quit because I was having issues with my, the tennis coach at my university and I was angry at the situation, but not at the like leaving tennis. Yeah. And I think I shattered both of my rackets like I walked out into my, into my dorm hallway, which was two center block walls and just wall to wall just there now you're never playing tennis again. And just went to theater where it's like just done. Is it because for you as opposed to Beth, do you feel like you were following a path that you were supposed to be following and that that you truly wanted to for a while? Yeah. I guess it was just a path that I was on. Yeah. And it was like, oh, the next thing is you play a college and you get a little scholarship and you, and you're doing it just because you're doing it. Yeah. Because that's what you've always done. And at a certain point, you're like, wait a minute, I can't do this. I can't do this anymore. I don't, I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. My body already is telling me. Body was hurting. Yeah. Yeah. Like my, my, I would get, I would get partial dislocations in my shoulder and my sleep. In your sleep. Because my joint was so stretched out from, you know, years and years and years of this motion, you know, the service motion that I'd wake up and my shoulder would be dislocated. Oh my God. And I'd be like, no, and I'd have to like, you know, partial, not like a, not like a, like a mel Gibson slamming it, slamming it, but yeah, it was like a, it's a crossroad. I think it's a, it's a crossroads for a lot of people, right? At a certain point in their life where it's like, is this for me? Yes. Was this someone else's idea? Yeah. And it happens a lot with faith. Yeah. Or it was like, is this for me? Right. Or was I just raised this way? Yeah. And maybe I need to step away for a while and see if I actually like this like. just this last trip back to Baton Rouge. Someone's like, "Complay Pickleball." And I was like, "Okay, all right, fine." And I'm like, "Oh, oh, there it is." - Yeah. - There's that. (laughing) - Did you like it? - I liked it too much. Yeah, my knees hated it. I was like, I'm already still swelling and like, all that stuff. But it was like, you know, I walked away from that competitive thing for a long time. And it was like, yeah, I guess I enjoyed the competition more than I enjoyed tennis. - Okay. - You know what I mean? - But yes, did you have anything like that? - No. - No, you held on, we talked about this in our last episode, about you knowing what you wanted. - Knowing what I wanted. - Laser-focused. - I have my own tumultuous relationship with music that I'm working through. - Say more. (laughing) - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, sing more. - Sing it, let's say there's a song response. No, I'm kidding, go ahead. - I think I just like, I've realized that I have a lot of baggage to unpack from certain relationships in my life, early on, early in my career, before there really was a career. And people that sort of were naysayers and really like emotionally traumatized me and made me think very little of myself. And then there were echoes of that same treatment later in life in a relationship. And it was like having to unpack both of those traumas that stay with you. I went to this energy healer the other day. And I know, it's crazy. I thought that I was going just to get acupuncture. But it ended up, it was someone that had like, like a friend who was like, oh, you should go see this acupuncturist. And it was like, okay, I'm not very good at doing things for myself, you know, like self-care. So I will go and keep this acupuncture appointment. And I walked in and there was like crystals and singing bowls and I was like, okay, my mom, not 100% my scene, but I respect it. Like cool, I felt really good in there. And it ended up that this woman did some energy work. And sure she could have known who I was. I don't think she did. And she certainly wouldn't know about my relationship to music. But she, at a certain point, she was putting in the acupuncture needles and sort of like touching me or, you know, like, you know, a massage and whatnot. She was like, why are you singing? She was like, why, why no singing? And I just went, like wept. And she was like, oh, your body, your body wants you to so bad. She's like, I don't know if this is something you do. Professionally, she's like, but I'm not even talking about that. I mean, I just like around the house to your kids. Like your body is aching, your throat chakra and your creative chakra down there are so gummed up, but like I can just feel and your body, your voice is like is trying to come through, really wants to come through. And I was like, yes, I know exactly what you mean. And so it's like, that's my lot in life of, and I've done a lot of therapy and stuff, but it's like, I think getting to this point, this age, being a mom, being at a point in my life at 42 years old, where I'm just sort of like, why am I denying that? Why am I denying myself that? Why am I belittling that side of my life and saying, like, oh, no, that's always been a hobby, but it has, but it's like, it is a very, very much a part of me. But even like with our live show, it was like, I was sick, like I, and I make these excuses for myself. I look, I live with an artist, with a musician, who like his day job is to sing all the time, and make music and play and stuff. And I'm like, oh, I just sporadically dabble and dip my toe in. It's not my day job. So therefore, when I do have to go sing for something, it's like, I'm like, it's like not going to the gym for a long time and just expecting yourself to be in shape. I'm like, oh, I need to not only practice that, but like my soul needs it as well in some capacity. And I sit there and I'm like, why am I not writing music with my husband? I like, we go to bed every night and like sit and watch a show or we read or we whatever. I'm like, I literally could be like downstairs with my favorite musician in the whole world, like writing, and playing or just singing or whatever. And it's like, anyway, all of that, that's a long diatribe that like this healer picked up on something that was not even something I was thinking about. I did not think I was gonna go and have any sort of experience. I literally thought I was just gonna fall asleep and have some needles put in my back and that was not the case. It like it awoke something up in me that I was like, I need to pay attention to this. That is real and that is something I've been denying and downplaying and so all of that to say it's something that's more top of mind. And like I was just asked to do something where I have to sing and my initial reaction, I was on the phone talking to these people, they're like, oh, we would love for you. And I was like, can I think about it and let you know? And I thought about it. And I was like, this is exactly what I need to be doing. And so I like talked to Taylor and he was like, yeah, why aren't you doing it? And I was like, yeah, why why why why not? And so then I called them back and I was like, yeah, I'll do it. Just because I was like, my instinct is always to be like, no, I don't do that. I was like, no, it's not something I do anymore. I don't really, and I even said that to these guys. I was like, no, I'm not really singing these days. And they're like totally, totally, totally up to you. And then I was like, I will do it. Yeah, anyway, long diatribe for no reason. No, that for no reason. But I relate to Beth in that sense where you're like not you where it's like, I didn't, I never really walked away being like, and that's that chapter of my life is done. It's like, I want to get back there fully where it is, because I've done some more work with this energy worker. And it's like sinking back to the thing that nourished my nectar, my essence as a kid and music. And that sort of unadulterated like singing and how that felt in the joy it brought me. And it's like, I want to find my way back to that, you know? And so that's what I'm working on. More that was us after the short break. I think one of the most important parts of life is indulging in a little bit of me time. I mean, for me, it kind of looks a little bit different on any given day or any given week. Sometimes it could be a glass of wine. Sometimes it could be a massage or a facial. Sometimes it could just be like a bass by myself and my bathroom when my kids are asleep. And just knowing that I'm going to have a little piece of mine, I pop on a podcast. You know what else it could be? Unwrapping and unreal. And sinking my teeth into something delicious that is a blissful me moment, anytime I want it. Unreal is on a mission to unjunk the world starting with chocolate. Their vision for the future is a world where all food is a hundred percent real. Yeah, they're committed to making products with way less sugar and simple real ingredients, but they'll never make anything that doesn't taste truly delicious. 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And how do I get back to something simple or what would seem so obvious about singing, right? This sound that we are these biologic acoustic machines that walk around and make noise. Yeah. Right. And we engage in rhythm and we engage in harmony and we engage in in melody. Yeah. In ways that are not technically musical. Sure. But it's what we're doing all day long. Oh, yeah. And our body wants it. And there's, I did a project a while ago, a long time ago that talked about recorded music. And the idea that recorded music, some would say, was the birth of music. And others would say was the death of music. Because before recorded music, if you wanted to hear music, you had to make it. Yeah. Whether you thought you were musical or not. Yeah. And it was a communal experience. You would get together with your family. You would get together with your tribe. Whoever. You would sit down and be like, we need some, this, this party needs some music or this gathering needs some, or how about a song? And early days of recorded music, it was just people recording all the songs they knew. Yeah. That they didn't write. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't about being a songwriter. It was about, like, these are the songs that we use to, to commune. Yeah. I find, like, isn't, isn't it funny how we, because we can listen to Adele singing on a recording and be like, oh, well, that must be music. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That must be what singing sounds like. Oh, boy. You know, but then we have other artists like, you know, our Bob Dylan's or, or, uh, who, like, well, that's also singing, yeah, according to some. Yeah. But I mean, you know what I mean? Like, they're the people who, who, who pass that and, or who, who subvert that or who make us think about it differently. But that's so fascinating to me. Like, because I feel the same way. I feel the same way about singing. Do you? Yeah. That's interesting. I feel the same way about a lot of things. Like, like, you were saying, like, when people, hey, will you do this roast? Absolutely not. I don't do that. I know. Okay. I'll do it because as soon as I have that feeling, I know it's something I probably need to look at. Yeah. I remember you saying that recently. And it, yeah. Yeah. It's a lot to unpack, guys. Yeah. I'm going to get back to the show in a second. No, no, no, no, no. I appreciate you guys sharing this because, like, everything leading up to the live podcast or whatnot, you know, I've brown would express this trepidation about singing the show. And man, you said something that sort of hit close to home. Like, I remember as a kid loving the thing, yeah, saying all the time, did all the musicals in high school, et cetera. And I can remember this moment where somebody very close to me, I was sitting in the car and I was just sort of like messing around and I missed a note. And I remember this person just making this face like I'd hurt their soul. And I was like, I don't want to do that anymore. I got really don't want to do that. It's those little moments. You know, I'm saying, like they grow in. Oh my goodness gracious. And to hear the Sean Toos that is Amanda Lee Moon, say that she has similar feelings. Like, I'm wondering, like, you were talking about being blocked. Do you sing to your children? I do, but it's funny. I don't, like, I don't sing to Lou as much as, like, singing was very much a part of like a nighttime ritual with Gus and Ozzy. And it hasn't been with Lou. And I thought I've been thinking about that. I was like, oh, we should say because she's a very easy baby. And she's never really fussy. But if there are any moments where I don't know, she's not feeling great or whatever singing does really suit her. I mean, it's like it's so silly. Of course, like singing suits children like, sweet singing, but it really like it's, yeah, she'll sort of stop and look. I think because she's so nice to it. But yeah, it's very sweet. So I need to sing more to her specifically. And to hear you refer to it as something that you do on the side is an interesting, it landed on my ear in a really interesting way. I was like, Randy Moore does everything. And you know what I'm saying? It's sweet. But what the way that hit me too was, and so what if it is? Yeah. Yeah. That's not a negative. It's not a negative. It's also something. Even if it is a hobby, it's like, yeah, that doesn't lessen its value. Yeah. I, but I've always regarded it in that sense, not in a negative connotation, but just not giving it as much weight. Sure. And therefore, it makes it easier to be like, it's not really my thing. Sure. I don't, I haven't made records. I haven't toured in a while. I don't, you know, like it's, but that is the bar for being a singer too. Like for me, this is like, I was like, oh man, if I can just go on this late night show and ask me to give them a couple of bars, that's a big deal for me, but you used to do this. And now you're like, I don't really do that. Yeah. Yeah. Not in that same. It's just not, it's not my day job. So I feel like I'm gonna just bow out. Right. Right. Right. Anyway. The body, but the body, it's interesting. But the body knows, the body knows. Yeah. The body knows. Hold on to that truth. Sickness, injury. You know, I can get a little woo-woo, but the, but the body knows the body. The body is, yeah, love crystal. Yeah. I do. I don't really have any, but I like it. Yeah. But there are certain, there are certain churches with quotes, I'm doing a figure quotes around that would say that anything wrong in your life, sickness, injury is a crystal, is, or is related to something spiritual. Uh-huh. Sure. Sure. Sure. And part of me is like, well, that's not holy incorrect. Yeah. You know, like our body holds on to that trauma. Yeah. For sure. Like it, it metabolizes it in a different way, but like, yeah. Because there's chemicals involved. There's cortisol involved. Yeah. And so Beth, in this story, yeah, has all of this, you know, to get back to it is, is, is all of these feelings connected to dance, right? Yeah. And then even in the flashback, when it's this, this is the episode where they go on the date, right? It is. And, and Randall tries to surprise her with taking her to the ballet, and she won't even, she won't even go watch it. Take me home. Yeah. It's like during the cab around and take his back. Yeah. Because there's too much pain around, around her, her correlation to ballet. And we watch Beth as well, sort of like present day in this moment in the midst of the pandemic. She's going to throw herself back into the corporate world. Yep. And she's going to get on a zoom, right with a, with an urban planning firm. Yep. Locally. It's like, it's not even like, begrudgingly. She's just sort of like, no, this is my next step. Yeah. Like, I did that. It clearly wasn't in the cards for me to have dance in my life and the capacity I thought it was going to be back in my life. You know, so now I'm going to pivot. And yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting because like, there's not, there's not even like disappointment in her voice, which like makes you, it made, it made me feel even worse for her. I was like, oh, this woman just is soldiering on with this, this grit and this determination of like, well, I'm going to make something else work. And you're, you just, you know, what this cost her. Her husband's clocking that she's eating dry cereal out of the box. And she hasn't done that. We haven't done that since like finals. It's like, Deja, keep an eye on her. I haven't seen her eat. Like that since high school. Keep an eye, keep an eye on that. And Deja's like, I'm dealing with my own thing. You know, Malik's baby's mom is coming around once a week to hang out. And she's like, but I'll, I'll take a look. Right. Yeah. Beth winds up having the zoom with the woman. Woman seems as sweet and this kind of can be. Beth's put together, got on her, you know, out. Laser that she dusted off. Yeah, not, not waste now. Neither. No, we've seen, we've seen. We've seen. And Annie said, hey, Mom, back straight. You know, whatever she said, the thing that Beth always said in dance class. Yeah. And as she's beginning it, the woman hits mute real quick. It sort of seems distracted. Beth was work going on. She's in my assistant double book to me. I'm so sorry. Can we redo this? And Beth's like, you know what? Almost like a laughing fit. Like it's, it's all good. Don't even worry about it. She's like, are you sure? She's like, yep. Totally sure. Right? Because she didn't even want to do it in the first place. And it was just like, what are the odds? Like that I put myself out here for something I didn't even want to do. I wasn't even excited about. And this is what happens. Yeah. Later on in the episode, Randall comes home, talks to the days, like I wasn't able to, I lost contact. with the wife, where is she, she told me not to tell you. She's like great, great, so not tell me where my wife is. And she says, she's at the studio cleaning up, but like, don't be a hero, man. - Don't go fix her, bro. - Don't go fix it, like sometimes you just, people just need you to be there. That's like one of the best things that you can do. And it's interesting too, 'cause this is a lesson that I think can be man-specific in terms of men wanting to fix or do, et cetera. And sometimes just being is all that is really required. - Yeah. - Right? And then she also comments on the fact that like how uncomfortable she is with this whole Jennifer and coming around and being around the baby. And what does it mean in terms of my place and the baby calling her mama and everything? It's like what a lot to deal with in high school. - Yeah, ever, but definitely in high school. (laughing) - So in the past and in the present, Randall back in the past is listening to Beth talk about how important dance was to her and what it meant and how she just had to sort of leave it behind. I'm trying to remember those things that the young, 'cause the young spoke more than the present day. - I mean, she was just talking about what we were talking about with our relationship to these things that we used to love. - Yes. - And how our relationships can change and then Randall shows up at the dance studio, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. - He shows up at the dance studio. - Beth Doug. - No. - No. - She really is, and all he does is put in the same tape that he put in several years ago of the same song. - Jason JoJo. - Oh, Casey, just good stuff. - This takes you back. - 13-year-old junior high dance. - Yeah, same. - Motion with Mari Sola. Oh my God. - Wow. - 13. - First kiss. - How old are you, first kiss? - Yeah, probably that 13, 14, 'cause how do you? - I think I was 14. - Both of us with big silver braces, just banging them into each other. - I'm always worried like what they get stuck. - They did. - They did? - Sure, 'cause they had a little rubber bands. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I mean, not terribly so, but it was a precarious situation. - You had to be careful. - Yeah. - But in each case, he just, he, in the past, he asked for dance, man, this dance, and they said they're not dance. - She cries. - And she cries, and then Beth, in present day dances with her husband, what not. And his really is this beautiful synchronicity of both of them having this moment. And I think under her breath, Beth says something to the effect of like, you still are too much. Like it was really, yeah. Just to undercut it, but still. - But it was exactly what she needed. - It was exactly what she needed. - I will say that that Casey and Joe Joe song needs to be more specific. There's that whole bridge about, close to me, you're like my father, close to me, you're like my brother, close to me, and I'm just, and I'm just like, but I think this is about romance, and you need to stop bringing up your family. Like, you got sterling. - Feeling, feeling out of the pool? - Yeah, yeah. - Like, what do we close like? 'Cause that's too many closes. Those are very different closes. - Not the kind of close I want to be with you. - I didn't realize it 'cause I was listening to it again. ♪ Oh my love ♪ - Oh, God. Shall we move on to Kevin Madison? - Yeah. - Rebecca's about to go dress shopping with her, and then they'd play this game good, bad, worse. It feels a little bit like worst case scenario. - I thought so too. I was like, okay. - Hot take, the writer's got a little lazy. (laughing) - I was like, guys, we've already done this. It has the name. - Yeah, I never was successful. - Oh, yeah. - But so Madison's talking about it, and she, Kevin's really funny. I just wanted to do like-- - She's very funny. - She's really like, when she comes over, she's like, hey, sorry about your all-scires. I was like, yeah. (laughing) - Oh. - Don't say that one. I think that's what he's saying. Kevin's like, all right, don't say that one. And then you'll be fine, right? Then Nikki comes out, I don't know. What did Nikki say when he comes out? He just comes out. - Yeah, so funny. But he is gonna go with Kevin to his screening. Kevin is going to the screening of this movie. - That's right. - He walked out on De Niro when Madison was in labor with the babies, so like, he's nervous about it. And so that's what prompts him to play good, bad words. - It's also something that we hear about Madison's dad cause, and I was like, we can't solve this. - Well, not yet, but he calls and says that he's gonna be there. - He's gonna be at the wedding. And she's like, I mean, I'm happy about that, but also like, this is the guy who's really not taken a ton of interest in my life. But he sees me on the cover of People Magazine or whatever, and now suddenly he wants to-- - That's a weird feeling. - Yeah, to be like close. - That's a weird feeling. - Okay. Madison, Kate and Rebecca, dress shopping. Rebecca says, thanks for the invite. They talk about Kate's work and she appreciates it cause she can't really talk to her husband about it these days. And there's, over the next two episodes, you see this wonderful thing from Rebecca with her daughter, with her daughter-in-law to be, and with her daughter-in-law, just pouring into these young women, in a really gorgeous way. I don't know if you-- - Very intentional way, yeah. - It was real. I mean, also because I think, and you'll say, I think it's in the next episode, how people are tending to treat you like a patient and less like a person. And so opportunities to just be a mother, to do that thing is something that you look forward to. - Yeah, she relishes that. - Yeah, yeah, because maybe she didn't get a chance to do it with her own daughter. - Not in the way that she wanted to, yeah. - Right, because of friction and all those things that beyond Kate goes kind of gave her a stiff arm whenever she would try to do that. - But they, yeah, they talk about, you know, the joy that Kate elicits when she talks about her job now. And therefore, the secondary joy that Rebecca gets, seeing how happy Kate is, and she essentially says that. Like I just, I was, I always wanted you to find the thing that you were passionate about. And it's like, it lights her up. And that's Rebecca loves to see that. - Was there, did I hear right that she didn't get to go dress shopping with Kate? - Yeah. - What did I miss? Was that a thing in one of our episodes? - No, but I think-- - She just didn't get invited? - She didn't get invited. Yeah, I think things were maybe a little bit more time of that kind of stuff. - Sure, sure. - Different posts for sure, but I just don't think Kate would have wanted that. - Right, right. - Back in the day, I think their relationship has, things have, have, they've grown closer. - Yeah. - This is tough. They have Madison and Kate all sort of connect to each other. So you could talk about Toby right now. You could talk about the director. - Well, let's, let's finish talking about this, maybe Kate and Rebecca at the, and Madison at the dress shop. - Yes. - Madison, they're trying on dresses or whatever. Laughing at some of the things that she's wearing. Madison finds out her dad ends up canceling, and she's pretty understandably disappointed about it. And Rebecca sort of saves the day. She talks about, she's like, "Do you know how special my son is to me?" So, I mean, that only can speak to how kind and beautiful and funny and remarkably graceful you are. And this entire family is crazy about you. - Sepertope. (laughing) (laughing) - But she really just sort of does her charming, Rebecca thing, where she kind of just jumps in. It's like, "No, no, let me tell you how it is." And I think that's, it's heartening for Madison because she's like, "I know your mom as, you know, "as Kate's like Kate's mom, "but I don't really know her as Kevin's mom." And so, there's a different relationship there, and I think she just feels kind of at odds. So, for Rebecca to sort of help her feel better about her dad not showing up. And like, really he's an asshole, and he's missing the boat, essentially. - Yeah, it's cool. - He is, he's an asshole. - It's a real special skill, too, that Rebecca's always had even with Jack. I mean, to speak truth into the world and to people who need to hear it. This is how it is, or this is how it's gonna be. And here's why, and here's why. It's a really, it's a unique gift because not many people can do that in a way that doesn't seem arrogant or intrusive, or she just recognizes truth and knows how to deliver it. It's really sweet. - Yeah, I agree. - Kate tells Rebecca she's a really good mom and thanks her for loving her in spite of being, you know, in spite of Kate sort of pushing her away. And, you know, in typical, it's like, it made me cry. She's like, I-- - This is like a real wrapping up of a life. - Yeah. - This moment. - No, with Kate because she goes, I see every Kate you've ever been and might still be, and it wasn't always easy, but you've always been easy to love. And I'm like, what a profound thing to say. 'Cause yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy being a parent. And I don't even know the breadth of any of it yet because our kids are still so little, but I can imagine that it's just like, of course, there are going to be challenges and you're gonna be pushed away as a parent and your feelings are gonna get hurt. But like that is never gonna stop the love and loving every different iteration and version your kids are. - Yeah. - And everything they bring to the table. - Sidebar, since this is directly applicable to this Rebecca Kate relationship, My youngest is a sweet boy. We were at basketball practice the other day, and I had just come from out of town. I can't remember where I was, but I got home in time to take him to basketball practice and was about to drive him home, but his mom had dropped him off, and I made it to practice. So I don't know if she was gonna take him or if I was gonna take him. So I'm walking out of practice. They had a scrimmage at the end of practice that his team lost and was a little frustrated about. But it's practice, you know, you can win, you lose. And I was like, "Hey, man, you ride," and he shook his head. And I was like, "I want to let you know, "I'm really proud of the way you play today. "You had a team that was stacked. "There were some older kids on it, "but you kept your head up," and he was like, "Okay." I was like, "You want to grab something new?" He's like, "I'm good." I was like, "You want to go with mommy? "You want to go with me?" I was like, "He just points at mom's car." And he just was very short. Didn't say anything to me at all. So I asked Ryan afterwards. I said, "Right. "Everything all right with the morning?" And he goes, he said to her. He goes, "I think I'm beginning puberty." And she goes, "Why?" He's like, "Because dad was trying to be nice to me, "and I just didn't feel like being nice back. "I just wasn't in the mood." I did, like, even if he said nice things, I just didn't feel like talking to him. So, like, later on the evening, like he didn't say good night to me, and he's like that. And the next time I wrote him a letter, I said, "Dear my," I said, "Daddies have feelings too." I said, "If you hurt them, "it's very nice to acknowledge that and apologize." Daddy loves you. Talk to you later. Thanks for reading, dad. And he saw the letter and he goes, "Sorry, dad." And I was like, "It's okay, man." But sometimes you have to let them know too, in the most polite way. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm not gonna remove my love from you. But the things that you do have an effect on me. - Yeah. - Just so you know. If I may, comment on your beautiful son. (laughing) He's laughing, which makes blood. But he knows what I'm about to say. He knows that you know what I'm about to say. - I do. - And it was a very funny moment. - That's great. - But it was also Rachel and I were sitting there going, that's one of the most aware things I've ever heard. We were at Sterling's 50th birthday, and the first two people on the roasting stage were his sons. Andrew said a few things, Amari stepped up, and took the mic and said something. I'm very happy to be here, happy birthday, dad, and turned to the audience and said, "And for everybody else, if you don't know me, please don't try to talk to me." (laughing) - I missed that. - I missed that. - And there he is. - Oh my God. - Because if you don't know me, please don't try to talk to me. And I was like. - Okay. - That is so aware. - It is. - And so self-sufficient to take care of himself that way. - Yeah. - In a room full of huge personalities, a lot of noise, a lot of glad-handing, a lot of people who have pair of social relationships to you, 'cause they know your dad to just come out on the mic, (laughing) and say it to the room. - From the top, Jack. - I was like, that's a special soul. - I couldn't have been more proud. It's a special soul, 'cause he was legit, like telling the truth, and he was like, listen. There are things that both kids have witnessed, but I think Andrew even has more of a sense of this, because I think Andrew can remember life before this is us. - Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay, got it. Life before this is us, and then life after, because I put like, oh, Jay, and this is us, right in the same sort of category. And I think, like, Andrew will tell you in a heartbeat, I don't wanna be famous. Not anything that I'm remotely interested in at all whatsoever, because I think he relates it to intrusiveness, and so what Amari is saying in this moment is like, listen, you may know my dad. - Yeah. - But you don't know me. (laughing) - I saw it in this, 'cause I said hello to him before, before everything started, and he had a moment of like, and then he recognized me, and I was like, oh, hey. (laughing) I was just like, they could see it. - Yes. - It was a great-- - Yeah, it's like a very protective measure. - Yeah, it was good. Oh god, that was incredibly powerful and wise. - Incredibly powerful and wise. - Yeah. - But to even recognize, I might be going through puberty. - Yeah. - Sure, because dad was being nice, and I didn't want this like-- - And I didn't want to be nice back. - What? - Are you saying to me, you little Buddha? Oh, like, how do you know these things? - Wow. - Like, to have that awareness, it's wild. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. - Yeah, that's a good kid. - We'll be right back with more of that with us. - You guys? - Yeah. - I was in Austin recently, and I had one of these trips where you end up doing way more than you planned. - Sure. - Like you've set a certain amount that you've planned, and then you do way more than that. - Yeah, sir. - We thought that we were gonna spend one afternoon walking around, and somehow it turned into like, live music. - Oh man. - Two barbecue stops. - Oh, that's good. - 'Cause you can go one barbecue spot in Austin. - That in Austin. - You have to taste test and compare. - And those are the best trips, truly, the ones where you don't over plan every single minute. - Exactly. - Sometimes the best memories happen in those moments that aren't scheduled. - Sir, that's basically the Pearson family motto. - Yeah, and somewhere during the trip, I realized that while I was off making all of these memories, my place back home, no, it was just sitting there empty. - Which is probably true for a lot of people whenever they travel. - Yeah, and made me think about listing my space on Airbnb. The only thing that would normally hold me back is wondering, who's managing everything while I'm away? - Sir. - That's where Airbnb's co-host network comes in. You're gonna hire a bedded local co-host with hosting experience to help manage the details. - Well, there you go. - I feel like I would want a lot of help with just the communications with guests, making sure that they're exactly, and you know what, a co-host can help manage those reservations. They can communicate with guests and provide on-site support. - So instead of worrying about what's happening back home, you can focus on being present wherever you are. - If you've thought about listing your space on Airbnb, find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. (gentle music) - Madison finds a dress, it's hard, 'cause Kate and Kate and Madison. - Yeah, yeah. - Madison finds a dress. - Mm-hmm. - Kate invites her mom to come to school, so she can-- - There's a part about the Madison thing, I just wanted to say that-- - Oh, sure, sure. - Her bio, her mom left her family when she was eight years old-- - And she was raised by her dad. - Raised by his dad, who was kind of like being raised by nobody, et cetera, so it was the first time that she felt like she was a part of a family. - Yeah. - Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this family, which I think, like watching it, I'm like, I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is so crazy. Like how, this is all about to play itself out. Okay, that's it. - Kate invites her mom to come to the school where she works to see her class sing a Johnny Mitchell song. Rebecca is elated at the invitation. So proud of Kate. It's a very, very sweet moment. - Yeah. - And, you know-- - That was Johnny Mitchell. You don't know what you got to let's go? - Mm-hmm. - Okay. - And-- - I know the sample. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kate-- - I know the sample. - Kate essentially says you believed in me when I had given up on myself. - Yeah. - And her mom says, you know, real joy has never gone forever. You just need time to find it again. Like essentially, that's the position. Just like, yeah, when she gives her hug and calls her, my bug, like all of it is just like, again, it's like, we know where this is going. And this woman knows where it's going. And it's like, yeah, you see in these last, these two episodes and right before the finale of this season, of just setting up this woman who is very, who's cognizant of where this road is leading. And how intentional she wants to be with the people that she loves, while she has her faculties, while she has the ability to communicate. What she wants to impart on them. And it's like, it just like, it's happening in such an organic fashion. 'Cause right, like, there's these big moments. Like, this is, she's shopping for a wedding dress. She's about to marry her son. Like, Kate has like, finally found herself. She has this like, footing in a world that like, it all makes sense now, right? Like, she wanted to be a mom. She wanted to find love. And it's like, she's checked those boxes, but like, finding her purpose in a world that's always sort of felt murky to her. At this stage in her life or those other things or somewhat settled as well, feels really good. And as a mom, I imagine the pride you must feel, the joy you must feel at your child being exactly where they were meant to be. - Yeah. - So yeah, it's really beautiful. - If I've just to dovetail it with like, the past. - Yes. - Because I think they're connected to each other. - They are, yeah, yeah. - She's about to go and interview for a job at the same office where you're working. And there's this idea, like, you know, we could be working together. We could take our lunch frigs together. - Yeah. - And be really, really cool, you know, because, and she, you can still tell that Kate's in this sort of grieving process and Rebecca's saying, you know, we can't agree whatever sort of we move forward. Kate winds up going to get like some coffee at a diner. - Yeah. - Right, and when I wanna like, what's she doing at the diner? Mom comes home is like, my girl said, you never actually came to the thing to the interview. And she's like, well, I wanna get in the job at the diner. And she's like, okay, she brought some food back at like fries and everything. And man, the show deals with this really, really well. - Absolutely, yes. - Really, really well, because it's like, she's eating and it's sort of like coping with something. And you see Rebecca sort of be like, do I say something or do I just stay here? - Yeah. - Like, I'm curious for you. - Yeah, I was like, is this a good idea? - Right, you're an alcoholic and you're getting a job at a bar. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And then we see the flashback of her being at the bar and having a memory of being in the booth with her dad. - And eating fries and-- - You know what I'm saying? - At the diner. - Yeah, at the diner. - How joyful it was, yeah. - And it's all sort of intertwined. Because then we find out in the present that she worked there for nine years. Now, we'd seen her at the diner. - Yeah. - In a flashback. - In the past, you know what I'm saying? But like, we didn't know, was it not? - Yeah. - It's, yeah, it's a good moment. It's a good moment. - Let's see. Should we go to-- - We can do Kav. - Yeah, let's do Kav and then we'll go to Kate and Toby. - Kav goes to the movie. - This was great because this was a real big switch. I really believe it. - I forgot. - Me too. - And then I was like, oh wow. - So he watches this movie with Foster, with the director, like on the other end of the aisle. And the movie ends. And Kavans like, I don't, and the director's like, I know, it's a masterpiece. It's like my favorite thing I've ever done. And you really-- - I really thank you, Kavans. - Yeah, for the performance of a lifetime. And we're led to believe as an audience, like, holy cow. - They did it, he did it. - He did it, they both did it. They made this incredible thing together in spite of Kavans leaving and all of the drama that sort of surrounded us. - Yeah, smash cut to him talking to his agent. - Oh, what was he saying? No, yeah, he was like, this sucks. It's like the worst thing I've ever seen. - Yes. - And you're like, oh wow. - And the agent's like, yep, that's what everyone's saying. It's the worst. Everyone's already talking about it. Yeah, and he's like, we gotta get you in here for a meeting. We gotta figure out your next project. So the stink doesn't follow you. - The four word spreads. - Nikki comes with him, Nikki was doing shopping. He has like a godfather one's in there. It's always fun to see the Paramount lot. - Yeah. - Like when we shoot, like on the actual lot where we shot the show, I was like, okay, that's good. They go in there, they start pitching things. Something sounds a little bit too manny. And she's like, I've already done that. Pitch after pitch sounds bad. And he's like, hey guys, has the industry heard about the movie? And he's like, it's not just the movie, dude, but you got a little bit of a reputation. And this is what I was saying to you guys before, about like his leaving stuff. - Yeah. And I hadn't even really put it all together. - I had neither. - Until like, oh, he's left a lot. - Three things. - What he does. - Between the high profile thing. - The manny, the Broadway show, and now Danero, or whatnot, you know, I was like, oh, this is something. And that would be, that's a legitimate stink to have on you. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? So now it's-- - Even though they all were for-- - For nobody cares. - Yeah, no one cares. No one cares about the nuance. Who cares about nuance? - Yeah. - They're real reasons. But what I love is that like, Nicky is just thumbing through scripts. Oh, listen, see he's cool. And one's of walking out of there with like-- - Yeah, I got a lot of reason to do it. - He's just, he's just, he's just-- - You, Nicky. - Yeah. Let's see. Okay, okay. Oh, he sees Zoe as he's leaving. - He sees Zoe. - He sees Zoe. Like walking out and sees her like on a zoom. - Brilliant writing, getting, getting somebody on camera. - Yeah. - But not in the same room. - Yeah. - For now, COVID precautions. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - But it felt very real. It was like, oh, really? - Yeah, totally. - Oh, it was really me having a meeting. So he like sits down to have a conversation with her. He tells her about Madison and the twins and how happy he is. And she sort of gives them this backhanded compliment, right? - It did not seem nice. - No. - No. - It was not. And she knew it. - And she knew it. - And she knew it. - She kind of copped to it with sort of like, no, I meant it as a compliment. You're like, did she? - Yeah. - She basically is just like, wow, you have a way of just kind of, how did she put it? You have a positive way of seeing the world. - Yeah. - And like kind of like bending to someone else's will or gettings, she was like, if I said that I wanted sushi and or I wanted pizza and you wanted sushi or something and we would end up having sushi, right? - Yeah. - Like you completely commit to whatever's in front of you. - Yeah, exactly. - What makes you such a badass. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, thank you. And she's like, no, I meant it as a compliment. But you could see the wheels in his head turning because he's like, oh, do I like kind of convince myself about something, do I like, not do I settle, but do I just like basically, I'm sorry, I think that that was the wrong analogy. And she said she wanted pizza and he wanted sushi or vice versa. He would decide like, oh, actually, I do want pizza because she wants pizza or whatever. And it's like, no, but is that what you really want? I think that's stuck in his brain because, you know. She even began the conversation to say like, yeah, so you have you engage in it and I was like, what happened? Did you knock her up? And he's like, yeah. And she's like, oh, all right, all right. That's how you do. Like you convince yourself like whatever's in front of you is the thing that you want. I think it's a great quality. I'm like, I don't think so. - I don't think you think that's a good quality. - I don't think so shady sister. - Yeah. - Shading my brother. - So then Madison, he gets home to Madison, tells her the movie sucks. He's trying to figure out stuff. He tells him that she's kind of relieved her dad isn't coming. And I'm trying to think if there's anything else that happens other than he was like, I want to watch Bridgerton. Like, I'm ready to watch Bridgerton. And she's like, oh, I really want to watch the Great British Baking Show. But, you know, and then we see a jump cut to them. She's asleep. And they're watching the Great British Baking Show. - Yeah. - Also, this moment of like, when he decides to do like, oh, Great British Baking, bake off whatever sounds great. And then right after he does it, because there's almost like an automatic thing, he goes like, that's what she said. I do. - Yeah. Yeah. But and you also see it happening as like, as he realizes Madison's asleep on him. He's just sort of like, I act like we asked again. And like that. - It's such a fine line. - Yeah. - What is, what is the line between codependence and flexibility? - Yeah, exactly. - Or what's so bad about, here's the thing, wanting the person you love to get what they want. - I'll tell you what's interesting about it, because he, in that's, in my mind, you guys tell me how you interpreted it. He got what he wanted to, because his family, he had a baby and went on and he had Madison and he out there. And so when we go to the next episode, we start talking about the emptiness, yeah. That's not something that he thought, he's thinking about the totality of like, oh, I get this child here, I get this sweet woman right here. And she's resting and I'm, and I'm okay. But like if that part goes, you know what I'm saying? Like sure. - Sure. - Sure. - Just such a fine line between compromise and codependence. - Yeah. - Yeah. - True. - Toby and Kate? - Toby and Kate. Or it's really, it's Toby. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's Toby. - But it's Toby and Kate. - We can, we can boil down the Toby, the Toby plot line. You know, there's a, there's a, there's a plumbing leak. - Yes. - He's going to fix it. - Yes. - Turns out he can't. So he has to reach out to his father, which is clearly not the person he wants to reach out to. - Yeah. - Father shows up, he's trying to fix this leak. It's a very metaphoric and in his life, this leak, my, my boat is sinking and, and dad delivers the, the bit of wisdom that, you know, it's not the leak. Dan Loria. - Yeah. - Not Dan Loria. - Yeah. - It's the pressure. - So he says. - That'll get you. - He says the pressure. - That'll get you. - Wait a minute. Toby and dad, they fixed it down. I said Toby's okay. - Yeah. - He's not, but says he is. And dad tells story about losing his job when he was eight. Not everybody talks about their feelings, which I've done that more. And then they go, you keep an eye on this. People only look for leaks where the water's coming out. - Right. - But it's the pressure that I get. - That's the pressure that I get. Dan is so great. He's like, he's like, I mean, because he grew up with all of those old classic black and white movie actors, but he delivers a line, you know, like Peter Falk, you know, very intense. - It's so good. - It's so good. But it's like when Kate comes home and she's really proud of Toby for fixing the leak, it's like, uh, this is some foreshadowing of pressure, pressure pressure pressure. This guy, my burst. - Well, there was, there's this interesting thing at the top of the episode where like Kate's like, are you sure you're gonna do? She's like, yeah, I got it. No problem. And she's like, well, you know, you're not a plumber. - Yeah. We just call a plumber. - I don't really have the money to be spending things like I can figure it out. It's all good. - He goes on to the YouTube just like how to fix out a fix a leak. Fixing leaks for dummies. League progressively gets worse, you know, say any sitting there with Tim. What's Tim's name in the show, what's his name in the show? Gregory. Gregory. Right? He's like, did you call the plumbers? He's like, no. He's like, I could call my brother-in-law, but, you know, that sends up the Pearson bad signal. And it's like the last thing I need is a bunch of people asking me what's going on and what I just want to fix this damn thing and have it be done, you know? And it's interesting because even his dad is able to say to him, I wish I had had. It's funny how your family likes to talk about their feelings and everything, like I wish I had done that more often because I see value in it after the fact. - Sure. - Whereas Toby is in it right now. He's like, that's not anything that I really am interested in doing right now. I just want to make it through this part. - Yeah. - And the way we make it through, we all have these different ideas of what it means to make it through. And oftentimes, a lot of men feel like you do it by yourself, where you patch that leak. You just, you put something on it and you keep it moving or what not. But you see, he's reaching a breaking point. - Yeah. - You know? - And he definitely does for the next episode. - Yeah, I think that's it for this episode. - This good episode. - Oh, we have a voice. - I think we have a voice memo from a dear friend. - Let's, our dear friend, her name is Susan Coletchi Watts and she plays Beth Pearson on this, is us. - Hey, all, what you doing? What you're wearing? Mandy, you look cute. I see you's sterling, smiling, laughing. Sully, miss you, man. (laughing) Okay, so we're watching the music and the mirror. And I'mma just say, this time around watching it, I really felt Justin's storyline. And maybe I did the first time watching it. I don't know. But this whole idea when he gets on the Zoom with Zoe and he starts talking about, well, she starts telling him that he has this amazing way of sort of loving whatever the person he's with loves, like sort of giving up what he really wants and getting satisfied with whatever his love one wants. And what really stuck out to me was like, wow, it's so interesting how, nobody points that out to you. You could go through your life doing that and not realizing it and thinking that that's love. And it's okay because you're very compromising and it's fine, but you never really get what you really want. You never really explore what your passions are or allow somebody else to. So that was really interesting to me this time around. And of course, in re-watching Beth's story, the thing that sticks out to me the most, that last scene, honey, when they chose that Joe to see. Ah, you know, that's that's that's that's that song right there. That's a big one, okay? And I have to say, you guys know, I'm not the cryer, but this time, tears, tears, for Beth and Randall was so incredibly sweet. And I remember how height sterling in Iowa, when they chose that song, we're like, what's better than this? And I don't know if it was K or Yegung or, you know, I feel like K had something to do with that song. But it was, it's such a banger. And it's beautiful and emotional. And it's so of a certain time, but a classic. And the simplicity of him walking into a room and just playing the music and just being there for her, was just so lovely and beautiful. And who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want somebody who can just read the room and say, hey, I'm just here for you. I ain't got nothing else for you, but my presence and a shoulder to cry on. So that was really, really beautiful. - Yeah. - Revolutions from Sue. - Yes, Sue. - Okay, good for sister Bell in there. - We need to get that one back in here. - As much as we possibly can. - I do adore her. - Same. - All right. - Guys, that was a great, thanks Sue for that message. And this was a great episode. - Yeah, it is like, 'cause I know the next, so we have this next episode coming up that we'll do in a little bit. And then there's the finale of the season. And I haven't, I'd remember what happens, but not everything. - Yeah. - So I know it's gonna be interesting for me to watch. - Yeah, I don't remember every year. - I have no recollection as to why. - Well, we went to a place. We went to this place. - This like garden, right? - Where might, you know, my buddy, the judge, he actually got married there. - Oh, wow, what a beautiful place to get married. - He actually got married in this place for this. - On my side of town. - Yeah. - Oh no, it's in Pasadena. - Pasadena. - I might have been because Gus came. I have a picture of you holding baby guys. - I think it's in Pasadena. - Yeah. - Yeah, I think it's in Pasadena. - He still sees your face on sometimes. He, first of all, he only thinks that I do a podcast. - You guys. - Yeah. - And the podcast came on the other day, like one podcast finished and ours came up and he goes, is that sterling? Yeah, he's like, he met me when I was a baby. I'm like, he did. - He did. - Gus is obsessed with like, he knows you obviously, but he's just like, I want to come to work with you one day and I want to see sterling now. I'm like, okay. - Absolutely. - I mean, get him in here. - I want to get him in here. - Any time to speak to ads. - Yeah. - Oh, sure. - All right. That was that episode. Great times. Good stuff coming. - Yeah, if you want to see this a day early. - Yeah. - Video format. Check us out on Hulu. - Check us out on Hulu. - On Mondays. If not, everything is as it has been. - Yeah, two days, you can listen to us. - Yeah. - Like those, support those sponsors. - Yes. - Like, subscribe. - Tell friends. - Tell friends. - Tell a friend. Send him a clip. You know? - Send him a. - You know what's crazy is we were just talking about this. Justin was just promoting his show tracker. - Yeah. - And he was on Fallon and Fallon brought up. This is us. - Yeah. - And I read the, you know me. I'm not really online these much, much these days anymore, but I was reading some of the comments and it's just like, it's so sweet. How many people love this show? - Yeah. - Because he was just talking about how people still come up to him on the street and want to talk about the show. And it just made me realize I'm like, they should know we're doing this podcast. - Yeah, they should be. - A lot of people don't. We'll back every watch the show and then tell people to watch, listen. - Come check this out. - We will be your loving companions. - Yes. - On your journey back through this show. So when we come back, I think we're gonna do a little fan segment. - Very special fans. - A very special fan segment for those who are fans of "Love on the Spectrum", have you guys seen? - Every episode. - Every episode. - I haven't watched this news yet. - Every minute of every episode. - You have not watched it. - It's great. - You're gonna love it. - It is the best television of all time. Like it is, it makes you feel so good. - Okay, okay. - But so Abby, who is the star of the first couple of seasons of "Love on the Spectrum". She and her mom are gonna join us because they're fans of the show. They watched the show together. And they have a special connection to it. So I'm excited to chat with them. - Let's do it. - Today is the day. - Yes. - We are so very excited to welcome Abby Romeo and her mom Christine from "Love on the Spectrum". Ever heard of it? Ever seen it, Sully? - I've seen every minute of that. - Yeah, we love it. - Abby recently shared how much she loves this is us and how the show helped the two of them, her and her mom understand each other, which we absolutely love tearing. - We're so happy they're here to talk storytelling, family, music, and more. So let's bring them on, gang. - Hello. - Hello, hello, Abby and Christine. - You see who we're talking to? Can we have a little intro of those hosts right there? - Yes. - Yes, we can absolutely do a little bit of an introduction. So I am Mandy Moore and I play Rebecca Pearson. - Mandy Moore. - Yes, hi, Abby. - Hi, Mandy Moore. - Hi, Abby, how are you? - And I heard you're the voice of Rapunzel and Tangles. - Yes, it's me, it's me, it is me, yes. - My name is Chris Sullivan. I played Toby on this is us. - Yes, and my name is Chris. - Wow. - Chrissy Metz's husband. - Yeah, Chrissy Metz's husband. - Yes, and I am Sterling Kay Brown. I play Randall. - Sterling Kay Brown. (laughing) - Hello. We are so honored to have both of you on the pod. A friend of mine sent me a clip where you were, you shared in a recent interview how much you love our show, which is so kind. - Because we love your show. - We love your show and we love both of you so much. - Oh, man. So we were so surprised and heartened here that you knew about our show and you liked our show and that actually, what you said in this interview was that the show helped the two of you understand each other better because of the use of the flashbacks and the way it sort of revealed a full picture of someone's experience. So Abby, if I could ask you, do you remember when you first connected with the show and how it made you feel? - It made me feel inspired because I was listening from the other room. so I decided to watch it with my mom here what they were talking about and when it goes back that's exactly how my my works in flashbacks with memories wow so I like to start so you guys understand that Abby doesn't really watch network television doesn't really watch it unless it's Hannah Montana or one of those types of shows but an actual drama is a really hard format for looking and listening at the same time so many people thought to some can either do one or the other okay so that's why we don't have eye contact because they're using their ears or they're listening but Abby started by listening to the show in the other room when I was binge watching y'all once you hit streaming yeah watch do every single night for a series of months and then you jumped in Abby do you remember you jumped in I do do remember I was inspired by because I saw flashbacks when they were babies to children to teenagers yeah exactly how my mind works wow and so they were sitting there and she she asked to to join us and and joined me and just said can can I sit and watch with you and I was kind of like yes yes because this hadn't happened before and she was watching one of those beautiful flashbacks where the cast is in the older years going back to childhood and remember what you turned to me and you said that's how my mind works wow and we've talked about that we've talked about that a lot on the on the podcast here about that I didn't realize Abby that that's how my mind works as well until I saw the show like the show feels like I'm revisiting my own life through memory or through flashback and so when I saw the clip of you speaking about it it actually clarified a lot for me too it was incredible you said you've described yourself Abby as a Gestalt thinker I am a Gestalt learner so I say things through lived experiences like whenever I'm like whenever I'm feeling uncomfortable like whenever I as a matter of fact when I was four years old I went to a program called the clubhouse which I hated and I felt just like a fish out of water there so the next time I felt nervous scared sad or shocked I would go that's the clubhouse instead of using the feeling words so my mom drew a visual dictionary of that place the memory and the feeling words next to it interesting and so the flashback to your time there helped you access those feelings yes wow that's so interesting that's incredible so when she saw when she saw the format of the flashbacks she was able to really tell me as a mother when you're always trying to figure out what's going on on the inside she said this is how my mind works it was one of the biggest autism parenting moments I've had and I just wanted people that dealing with this thing called the Gestalt language processor which is a part of some with autism that's a little bit underserved and under-discovered it really gave me pause to push and talk about this more because the show so beautifully shows life the way many of us think but for a person with autism was to really access real feelings I mean I just make a note that Abby's hair looks really good right now my hair yes yeah fantastic hair and the breath is killer thank you thank you now I have my question and the question is the Pearson family is constantly learning how to better understand and communicate with one another has being open about your autism helped the people around you understand you more yes because back in the day no one really understood autism and that made me frustrated sad and angry and uncomfortable yeah because I wanted to be fit in and be part of the typical world yeah so speaking about it allows people to be more accepting instead of keeping it to yourself yes gotcha and how does it feel now you're doing so much that's why oh as a kid I said I don't want to be a child I want to be an adult because even though I already am but that's those those are just flashbacks like what happens in your show yeah um it's because I knew that people would understand autism even more yeah because I knew life would be easier and my brain would do what I was telling it to do and I haven't been how did you know that though yeah mine reader that's why I associate adults as good and children as bad and that's the whole other part of your thinking though Brad I'm just telling you because I'm giving you examples about lived experiences you had an understanding that as people got older they grew in empathy and understanding and kids just don't have the same level of understanding there's some people with autism who don't have a speech delay for me I've had 22 years of speech therapy to be able to talk just like this yeah and he always knew um sterling she always knew that somehow as she got older she always gravitated towards adults because adults are more patient they're less you know what I mean I do yeah of course you're a level of social acumen and so but as a child she would always say I can't wait to be an adult because she knew her brain would be able to work the way she wanted it to yes I don't know how she had this understanding but that is in fact exactly what has happened mass yes have you are you guys familiar with a podcast called the telepathy tapes by any chance yes indeed I am is there any resonance for you Christine between your life and those that podcast I'm yes I I feel that on all different levels there are things going on universally and cosmically and things that I cannot understand in my little human mind that are bigger than what I know and I believe all of it oh of course and I'm fascinated by all of it and I like to listen to everyone's story we're all a little different but there's definitely a connection definitely I think that there's there's something about your show that that you were on Abby and our show that that connected so many people coming from all different different walks of life but there's something true at the center of both of our shows that allows people access to learning about themselves you know what I mean and and a big a big part of our show the expression of our show is music you know music is such a big part of the emotional expression on this is us and and we know singing and songwriting are also really important to you Abby we saw you're working on recording new music can you tell us about the new music I wrote a song called right here right now it's about learning how to stay in the moment because God it's about learning how to push old memories away because I have a very strong episodic memory like when I see someone doing a certain thing it brings me back to a memory hmm like whenever I see someone falling asleep it reminds me of a girl who fell asleep on the school bus in another girl who fell asleep in class yeah thank you Phil sad so I would copy them to to fit in even though it made them uncomfortable I wasn't mad I was mad at my brain not them and they don't copy me because it made them uncomfortable yeah I'm just so interested in how I know that music means a great deal to you how where do you find your inspiration for songwriting autism makes me want to write music because I like expressing myself yeah I know I have this feeling when when I am singing the song that you just you just mentioned when I am singing I am right here right now present in the moment and I'm wondering if when you sing if that gives you that same type of feeling it's awesome but when what do you say when you're singing it feels like what my autism is going then it comes back my favorite song to sing is part of your world from Little Mermaid because that represents wanting to fit in right I love that song too I identified with Ariel as a kid very first time she started writing music was because they were therapies that we used to have Abby manage her autism to do different things being the moment that kind of a thing and so they were therapeutic in nature so that's why she would write stuff down and we put stuff to music so she could remember and then it turned into you wanting to advocate for others with autism so you wrote a song her first song was called the girl inside girl sides about how the autism makes me feel like there's someone living inside me she's the one with autism and I'm the typical one oh wow and so that's all about that autism personified so that Abby can you know manage it but at the end of the song what's the classic line of love each other to be free which means she has to accept your autism that's why I connect to Hannah Montana because she lived a double life team in the show she did yeah that's so that's so and we've actually talked about this on on our podcast here which is it's an incredible for you to be able to express that because I think a lot of people can relate to that feeling to to the type of person that is constantly criticized I have an inner critic you know I have someone who lives in my head who's who's maybe holding me back sometimes or making me feel shy or making me feel bad about myself or or giving me confidence and and it's interesting to be able to vocalize that and especially to put it into into song that's incredible and the new song that's going to be released in the next two weeks right here right now is literally a therapy we we will say that when when Abby can't control her brain going into a past memory we try to help her by saying right here. right now. What do you see on the talk about what we see like out the car window? Right? What is some of the lyrics of that song? Here right now by the joy like inside out, the past doesn't serve me anymore. Present and future means so much more and yes, I've got a brain with a mind of it so, so take a deep breath and look out the window. See all there is to see. Put away the memory. Jay, I didn't know we were going to get a performance. That's amazing. I can't wait to download the song. I love your voice Abby. Thank you. I love yours too. Thank you. That means so much. I just have to say you guys and the other thing I just have to shout out to is the casting of your show was so brilliant that for Abby who is such a visual person, I feel like the younger selves were so easy to identify that after Abby engaged in the story because we really felt like we were experiencing them and so that the through lines and the flashbacks were very, very valid and very, very real for her with her differences. That's so great to hear. Thank you. No, we've shout out to Josh, our casting director and all the people. I feel the same way when I watch the show, I'm not like looking at me. I'm looking at Randall in the latest version and then I see Randall as he was younger before. It's kind of amazing. It really is, and the art of the show, we were all rocked when the show ended. We just wanted to stay with you, I think. It was jolting. It was a loss because we felt so part of it and I think it captured something that so many shows just don't, which were vested and those memories and watching her understand the same way that I did was the biggest gift I've had as a mother. Wow. That's the ultimate compliment, my goodness. Right on sister. We are so grateful for your time. Yeah. Thank you so much, Mandy. It's so grateful to connect with you guys. We love, like we've loved getting to know you on your show and this was just wow. I'm speechless. We're a little star struck you guys. You're awesome. Of course. Well, thank you for your time, ladies. Just thank you guys for having us on. It means so much because you all have a special place in our hearts, not just as performance, but the entire arc of the show. Thank you. Can you tell folks how they can listen to your new music and how maybe they can follow you on social media and whatnot? You know, your handles. Remember them? Hotsbyabby.com. Yes. That's your way. So I've got to test by Abby on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. What's made by Abby? That's where you make your hats. That's where you make them. She makes hats and sells them. So that's why we have that name and then I know this. As a bald man, I'm frequently in need of my hands. So I didn't know you made hats. When I talk about the parental and the educational stuff, I talk about things like like this, our connection on Christine, Abby's mom, on Instagram and TikTok. Okay. And then Abby's music is on Spotify and Amazon. Great. Beautiful. Can't wait. That's Romeo. Can't wait for the new music. Gonna be epic. Yeah. It's gonna be epic. That is true. And who won the Emmy award? Who's? Who's Emmy? Is that Emmy? Oh, that's dark. We have a several Emmys from from Unstructured Reality. I think the show's won seven Emmys. Yeah. That's that's more than Sterling Cape Brown. That is. Sorry, Sterling. Sorry. I have to now take a second seat to Abby. It's all good. Thank you, ladies. So much. Thank you so much. So much. You guys are lovely to finally meet you. Hopefully our paths cross one of these days in person. Yeah, in person. You like to meet everybody? Yeah, we would love that. Me too. Awesome. Thank you for having us. Thank you guys. Have a good day. Have a great day. Hi. Oh my gosh. Okay. Incredible. You guys, I cannot wait for you to watch the show. Okay. Yeah. She is so special. She's so, but everyone is so special. Yeah. I mean, she's a standout and she's on for several seasons and you'll see why. Yeah, but she's, she speaks the truth. Yeah. Like you're talking about her early. Like her, her, her line about the only way to be free is through love. Yeah. It's just like, yes. And that's it. End of story. There's something very pure and like, you know, uncomplicated by like she's like that, that line about sort of like delts versus children. It's really powerful. Yeah. And the understanding of like it's soon people will be able to understand and relate to me in a way that they can't right now. Right. I got it. Yeah. Man, it just cuts through. Yeah. Everything. Everything. Very much. And since watching, like listening to the telepathy tapes, it's like, there is a wisdom that I that I don't overlook. Like I listen very, very closely because I was like, you're teaching me something. Yes. You know? Yes. Abby's no joke. Yeah. And her mom is unbelievable. I think that's what we were saying. Like all of the parents that on on this particular show, it's like you just watch in awe of like how how they handle the situation. How like it's just like it's so, it's just so beautiful. Yeah. It is, it's going to be your favorite show. I'm telling you. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I believe you. King. That was us. That was us. That was us. That was us is filmed at Rabbit Green Studios and produced by Rabbit Green Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith. That was a Hit Gum podcast. [BLANK_AUDIO]